No, there is a difference in CC immunity between live and pts.
On live you can block effects like Dragon Wing Buffet or Beast Raider Charge, on PTS you cannot like you could not on live until a few weeks ago when a fix was applied to solve this problem.
Mod 4 so far from GF ( and GWF but I wont write it twice on two different threads ) perspective:
- many things have changed and are still chaning ang I hope will continue to change because frankly so far Mod 4 is shaping out to be the kingdom of ranged classes who not only can wreck you from afar, not only can completely avoid your damage and cc but are also getting buffed to a point when they can stand toe to toe with you in melee and actually beat you.
Do you recall the times CWs in partucular would complain that in a PVP Dom they were getting destroyed by GWFs on nodes ? To which I have many times replied with - " use your range , keep your distance, dont come into my melee ".. Well things are different in Mod 4. HRs remain pretty much as good as they are on LIVE, CWs hulk out ( ridiculous), DCs can already be next to unkillable.
Why are classes who are designed to control/kill from range and who can in turn avoid damage and control getting so resilient ?
I agree. At an equal gear level an HR and CW should not be able to survive on a node in the range of a heavily armoured melee fighter.
On a node it should be: GF -> GWF/DC -> TR (due to stealth and ITC) -> HR -> CW.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
And besides: in pvp domination you have to stand on nodes most of the times no matter what class you are, otherwise ur just loosing the match for ur team.
So very true.
It pained me to removed this because I wanted so badly to say the same thing but...yeah...
Even if feedback is amazingly bad in my own opinion due to using horrible points of view such as trying to blindly label a "Ranger" as a ranged class like any other two bit MMO is still valid feedback. Debating it in the Official Feedback Threads are a no go.
But yeah...
I don't care if you are a control wizard or any other "ranged class," get your sorry behind on that node because not fighting on the node is no better than going AFK...
And Rangers are NOT archers. Good grief as an avid fan of the ranger (who would have been happier without a bow on my back) being chumped in as a ranged class because of the name "Ranger" has to be one of my top 5 peeves.
Ah ok im sorry for not understanding then and your setup seems good but i found a really good one that works well against CW and SW.
I prefer swordmaster now and the daily is much better than any other i think. Villains menace is good but you still take high dmg even if you are cc immune but if you get close enough you can use crescendo then bull charge + GW then anvil and most cw die in 1 rotation. Also its almost impossible to block or dodge
I also have the same setup but prefer bull charge over lunge since a prone is always useful for them annoying chars lol
You been watching my play?
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
It pained me to removed this because I wanted so badly to say the same thing but...yeah...
Even if feedback is amazingly bad in my own opinion due to using horrible points of view such as trying to blindly label a "Ranger" as a ranged class like any other two bit MMO is still valid feedback. Debating it in the Official Feedback Threads are a no go.
But yeah...
I don't care if you are a control wizard or any other "ranged class," get your sorry behind on that node because not fighting on the node is no better than going AFK...
And Rangers are NOT archers. Good grief as an avid fan of the ranger (who would have been happier without a bow on my back) being chumped in as a ranged class because of the name "Ranger" has to be one of my top 5 peeves.
Right you guys, however any class who can kill from range is indeed ranged - while GWFs and GFs, who both have attacks that can do damage from a very long range, are not ranged. If you also have respectable melee capabilities ontop of your ranged attacks, then that is a subject for another discussion ( one that ponders on the question " Are HRs OP ? " )
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Right you guys, however any class who can kill from range is indeed ranged - while GWFs and GFs, who both have attacks that can do damage from a very long range, are not ranged. If you also have respectable melee capabilities ontop of your ranged attacks, then that is a subject for another discussion ( one that ponders on the question " Are HRs OP ? " )
GWF is a ranged class right now, they are their own projectiles throwing themselfes unto the enemies due threating rush. The GF with lunging strike and bulls charges is nearly the same. Ranged and melee are just terms to classify a combat style, not a class itself.
Or can u explain me how a fighter in plate armor can charge 60ft in the fraction of a second? Yeah…
Do u watch Game of Thrones? The fight between the Viper and the Mountain? Ur argumentation that heavy armored fighter should be kings of the nodes even fails a reality check, not to mention the situation in a very magical world.
Do u watch Game of Thrones? The fight between the Viper and the Mountain? Ur argumentation that heavy armored fighter should be kings of the nodes even fails a reality check, not to mention the situation in a very magical world.
No, it does not fail a reality check. The reality is chainmail and plater/scale armour > leather and cloth. The reality is a Longsword/Greatsword will tear through cloth and leather faster than a knife/dagger/shiv would get through heavy plate armour and an iron shield.
Yes, this is fantasy, but there should be some reasonableness to it. Cloth and leather clad fighters should not expect to have the same tankiness of fighters clad in chainmail, plater armour and scales. You have range, use it. If you come into the range of a melee fighter be prepared to get hurt.
And as for your Viper, he got physically overpowered in the end and had his skull crushed.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
GWF is a ranged class right now, they are their own projectiles throwing themselfes unto the enemies due threating rush. The GF with lunging strike and bulls charges is nearly the same. Ranged and melee are just terms to classify a combat style, not a class itself.
Or can u explain me how a fighter in plate armor can charge 60ft in the fraction of a second? Yeah…
Do u watch Game of Thrones? The fight between the Viper and the Mountain? Ur argumentation that heavy armored fighter should be kings of the nodes even fails a reality check, not to mention the situation in a very magical world.
Kinda irrelevant as TR gets nerfed for GWFs and LS only kills if you target a runner with 1% HP left.. while the real ranged class executes CC and continuous dps from 80'
Do any of you actually consider the facts before proclaiming the GWF class as the one above all ? Right now on LIVE a GWF of 17K GS with 38K HP and 25k IBS crit with G.PF has to use: unlimited TR + broken Roar + full power Unstoppable + broken RamMad + PRONES to be able to catch and possibly beat equally geared and good CWs / HRs / DCs. Have you ever chased an immortal DC around the node with a GWF or a GF ? I guess not
Cmon now lets get real. GWF are not super dominant with gear/skill being even despite broken abilities/boons
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Kinda irrelevant as TR gets nerfed for GWFs and LS only kills if you target a runner with 1% HP left.. while the real ranged class executes CC and continuous dps from 80'
Do any of you actually consider the facts before proclaiming the GWF class as the one above all ? Right now on LIVE a GWF of 17K GS with 38K HP and 25k IBS crit with G.PF has to use: unlimited TR + broken Roar + full power Unstoppable + broken RamMad + PRONES to be able to catch and possibly beat equally geared and good CWs / HRs / DCs. Have you ever chased an immortal DC around the node with a GWF or a GF ? I guess not
Cmon now lets get real. GWF are not super dominant with gear/skill being even despite broken abilities/boons
PS: **************************************************************SPOILER********************************* The Mountain won and lives
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Lets put an end to this missunderstanding and the lack of knowledge once and for all.
This is a D&D WotC licensed title, and here are the definition of the Hunter Ranger from the official 4E source book "Players Handbook I":
Rangers are watchful warriors who roam past the
horizon to safeguard a region, a principle, or a way of
life. Masters of bow and blade, rangers excel at hit-andrun
assaults and can quickly and silently eliminate
foes. Rangers lay superb ambushes and excel at avoiding
danger. (...)
You combine fast, hard-hitting melee
attack power with excellent ranged attack ability, and shift
easily from melee to ranged combat.
Lets quote the definition of the Fighter class, shall we?
Fighters are determined combat adepts trained to protect
the other members of their adventuring groups.
Fighters define the front line by bashing and slicing
foes into submission while reflecting enemy attacks
through the use of heavy armor.
Now, lets take a closer look at the specific definition of the Guardian Fighter, and the assumption of people in this thread, a Guardian Fighter should be able to kill a hunter Ranger 1vs1.
To fight better, you fight smarter. You’re willing to trade offense for superior defenses and better ability
to control the battlefield around you. (...)
You have special abilities that make it dangerous for
enemies to ignore you, so you can contain foes and keep
them away from your friends.
Keep that quote in mind and imagine the situation on a node where a Hunter Ranger engages a GUARDIANfighter in a 1vs1:
About the Hunterranger:
You concentrate on either ranged attacks
or two-weapon melee fighting to deal a lot of
damage to one enemy at a time. Your attacks rely on speed and mobility, since you prefer to use hit-andrun
tactics whenever possible.
Ok guys. Can you figure out that little quote puzzle by yourselfes? Or do I have to do that for you?
Which class might be more entitled to win an isolated 1vs1 situation?
Stab At-Will
It would be nice if this at will would not automatically move the player forward if no target is selected. Players intentionally do not select a target to steer the cone of this attack better to hit multiple targets as opposed to 1 target only
Steel Blitz
This Class Feature deals rather pitiful damage. When it procs, it deals approximately 2/3 of the damage the first attack of Cleave would. On a Great Weapon Fighter, the damage is slightly higher, though also very low and makes this a poor Class Feature to use for either character.
Guard
Guard is too stable now compared to earlier versions. With Shield Talent and one of either Enforced Threat or Iron Warrior, I can pretty much remain in Guard mode indefinitely without choosing any Guard related feats
guard is suppose to be stable in that sence if your pve your gonna need all the guard you can get to hold aggro against 20+adds why in the world are people still harping on this, and to even have that you have to slot 2 skills thatare for utility so it's working as intended. on the flip side try without those skills and see what happens.
I've started using Griffon's more frequently on live and I have too noticed that it fires off twice when I only press it once.
Strange, I've been using this power for months in PvP and PvE and I almost never strike twice anymore. It's very sensitive, but it does not strike twice with only one key push. If you push the key twice then it will launch two GW successively, it may explain the confusion.
Olaf, freelance guardian fighter.
Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
Stab At-Will
It would be nice if this at will would not automatically move the player forward if no target is selected. Players intentionally do not select a target to steer the cone of this attack better to hit multiple targets as opposed to 1 target only
Steel Blitz
This Class Feature deals rather pitiful damage. When it procs, it deals approximately 2/3 of the damage the first attack of Cleave would. On a Great Weapon Fighter, the damage is slightly higher, though also very low and makes this a poor Class Feature to use for either character.
Guard
Guard is too stable now compared to earlier versions. With Shield Talent and one of either Enforced Threat or Iron Warrior, I can pretty much remain in Guard mode indefinitely without choosing any Guard related feats
the guard is good that its that stable because we still take dmg while guarding and in pvp to have it up that long requires you to have less dmg encounters on and players can still CC you anyway or just run behind you and in pve you can still take heavy dmg so i think its fine.
the guard is good that its that stable because we still take dmg while guarding and in pvp to have it up that long requires you to have less dmg encounters on and players can still CC you anyway or just run behind you and in pve you can still take heavy dmg so i think its fine.
Not to mention we cant really do much damage aside from reflect (takes a class feature slot) or trying to stab in melee range...
Other classes tools (GWF - Unstoppable, TR - stealth, CW- new shield) all allows them to not only still MOVE quite well, but also attack.
Like I said, Guard in the current state is too durable considering I invested exactly 0 feats in it, basically meaning that those feats would be superfluous and never picked.
I do not believe that Guard should be "endless" without having chosen any feats or sacrificed more than 1 encounter slot
Not sure what you are slotting, but even with Raven Skull artifact (+stam gain) the stam gain boon (+250) and the Sharandar 10% boon, AND Profound 4/4 I can assure you I dont have "endless block"
If block was at 100% mitigation it would need some sort of less downtime, given that its only 80% and classes like HR or CW have thing that ignore DR, I definitely DONT think its "OP" at all... Go duel a CW on the PTR or a good HR and youll see we still are not ULTRA TANKY...
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
Not sure what you are slotting, but even with Raven Skull artifact (+stam gain) the stam gain boon (+250) and the Sharandar 10% boon, AND Profound 4/4 I can assure you I dont have "endless block"
If block was at 100% mitigation it would need some sort of less downtime, given that its only 80% and classes like HR or CW have thing that ignore DR, I definitely DONT think its "OP" at all... Go duel a CW on the PTR or a good HR and youll see we still are not ULTRA TANKY...
Well Godmode figured it out he have almost endless block.
And i know he use BI gear.
Well Godmode figured it out he have almost endless block.
And i know he use BI gear.
You can, if you slot everything for it. Which IMO isnt OP. Also ive been Theory crafting with Godmode about this and he definitely doesnt think its OP either...
What you need to do this is Shield Talent (class feature), Raven (stam gain) Boon (stam gain) sharandar boon (stam gain)
And THEN slotting Iron Warrior for the additional stam gain you can get near endless block. But none of that really helps you because you cant attk while in block, AND it takes an encounter power away.
Also you STILL take 20% damage through block... And run slower.... So again, not OP at all.
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nwnghostMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
You can, if you slot everything for it. Which IMO isnt OP. Also ive been Theory crafting with Godmode about this and he definitely doesnt think its OP either...
What you need to do this is Shield Talent (class feature), Raven (stam gain) Boon (stam gain) sharandar boon (stam gain)
And THEN slotting Iron Warrior for the additional stam gain you can get near endless block. But none of that really helps you because you cant attk while in block, AND it takes an encounter power away.
Also you STILL take 20% damage through block... And run slower.... So again, not OP at all.
You only need Shield Talent and Iron Warrior (or Enforced Threat). That's hardly "slotting everything for it". The only stam related boon I have on GF is the IWD boon
You only need Shield Talent and Iron Warrior (or Enforced Threat). That's hardly "slotting everything for it". The only stam related boon I have on GF is the IWD boon
What is op about blocking 80% damage not to mention that piercing damage is the theme for mod 4 so this is no problem imo. Reason being to take an encounter slot for iron warrior in pvp is well silly because it will not help you control your opponent. The day we can use encounters while blocking then that becomes an issue(cough current cw shield).
EDIT: And as for pve please do try your perma block in the new dungeon without a dc i doubt you will live lol.
It just seems that TO ME, having a CW with a minimum of 70% DR (2% base + 50% unstable) is a little silly when the GF thats a TANK cant even get much over 60% DR (in full prot) I was thinking maybe the "MASTERY" of this adds either a damage boost, or MORE control resist but I dont think the DR should be more than even 30% when broken. Now that CWs have alot more control, they ARE more tanky. Now that they have a feat that deals damage THROUGH all damage resist, they can still do some good damage in PVP (through GFs block).
So to me, it doesnt make sense that they also have MUCH higher DR than all the classes.... Even the Tank class....
Im fearful if I post this feedback in the CW thread it causes alot of flame and just gets removed. If anyone wants to, go for it.
FEEDBACK:
I am also VERY leery about Guardians ability to tank. Now we have tools (i.e. ET/Mark/New block) but all of that is rather meh, if the GF cant actually TAKE alot of damage. Maybe we are supposed to revolve around blocking, and outside we are pitiful, it just seems for a class wearing plate armor, we dont get much benefit to the added AC we have.
Heroic Feat:
Armor Specialization. Consider boosting this to 10/20/30% increase (up from 5/10/15%). This would boost DR a fair amount for all GFs giving a real benefit to stacking high defense and AC. Even going to 15/20/25% would be fitting as well....
I moved to PTS and tested against a PVP GF/CW: Against the GF I could stall, but nothing more. If I try to attack him to kill him, I would easy lose. His 18k vs. 14.7k no PvP Protector with ~59.7% DR. That would be okay, BUT
I was murdered within 20s or so against the CW. He burn through my def(even BLOCK) like i was a fresh... nothing wearing GF. That's ridiculous! Yeah I had no Tenacity, but with 40k+59.7% so fast murdered is stupid...
And that's not all: With the powercreepfactor, the own Tree give the protector a disadvantage! -12% DR due new mark(so total -20% DR instead of the old -8% DR) AND on top of that: Many skills gain 20% or so more in damage! Even with the -10% damage done debuff the other both trees do more damage as before against us Protectors! Not fair...
I moved to PTS and tested against a PVP GF/CW: Against the GF I could stall, but nothing more. If I try to attack him to kill him, I would easy lose. His 18k vs. 14.7k no PvP Protector with ~59.7% DR. That would be okay, BUT
I was murdered within 20s or so against the CW. He burn through my def(even BLOCK) like i was a fresh... nothing wearing GF. That's ridiculous! Yeah I had no Tenacity, but with 40k+59.7% so fast murdered is stupid...
And that's not all: With the powercreepfactor, the own Tree give the protector a disadvantage! -12% DR due new mark(so total -20% DR instead of the old -8% DR) AND on top of that: Many skills gain 20% or so more in damage! Even with the -10% damage done debuff the other both trees do more damage as before against us Protectors! Not fair...
Like it has been said the protector capstone should work and apply stacks when hit instead of having to attack.
I moved to PTS and tested against a PVP GF/CW: Against the GF I could stall, but nothing more. If I try to attack him to kill him, I would easy lose. His 18k vs. 14.7k no PvP Protector with ~59.7% DR. That would be okay, BUT
I was murdered within 20s or so against the CW. He burn through my def(even BLOCK) like i was a fresh... nothing wearing GF. That's ridiculous! Yeah I had no Tenacity, but with 40k+59.7% so fast murdered is stupid...
And that's not all: With the powercreepfactor, the own Tree give the protector a disadvantage! -12% DR due new mark(so total -20% DR instead of the old -8% DR) AND on top of that: Many skills gain 20% or so more in damage! Even with the -10% damage done debuff the other both trees do more damage as before against us Protectors! Not fair...
I've asked repeatedly for them to tone down the Shield on tab so that it's same DR on and off tab.
I've recommended giving it some other benefit on tab other than DR
I am a CW not a tank, and I'd prefer leaving that job to someone who is built for it.
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
edited July 2014
I am 100% sure Goodmod dont have Shield Talent slotted he was pure on conq also her main arti is DC arti.
Mybe you shoud ask her when i saw him he have 50k hp no pets around 2 k power and almost zero armor pen 2 k crit.
But mybe i dont remember rigth .
I am 100% sure Goodmod dont have Shield Talent slotted he was pure on conq also her main arti is DC arti.
Mybe you shoud ask her when i saw him he have 50k hp no pets around 2 k power and almost zero armor pen 2 k crit.
But mybe i dont remember rigth .
Godmode is a He bro. Just saying... Maybe his char is a female - i havnt looked that closely. One thing I do know, ive been testing this ALOT myself and again, its not too strong which I think is hilarious that ppl were saying itll ruimn the class, and others say its too good.
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
Godmode is a He bro. Just saying... Maybe his char is a female - i havnt looked that closely. One thing I do know, ive been testing this ALOT myself and again, its not too strong which I think is hilarious that ppl were saying itll ruimn the class, and others say its too good.
I've asked repeatedly for them to tone down the Shield on tab so that it's same DR on and off tab.
I've recommended giving it some other benefit on tab other than DR
I am a CW not a tank, and I'd prefer leaving that job to someone who is built for it.
Thanks for the honest feedback here: maybe you can post (if you havnt) on the CW thread so this gets seen. Like I said, I am 100% behind the CW getting some love, even posted when this hit saying it looks interesting, but after playing with AND against it (in 2v2s etc) CWs are the tankiest class!
The ONLY way I can see this being viable, is if shield slowly drains stamina at this high of DR - so its not 100% uptime AND reduces the ability to blink as much. Otherwise it really should be toned down a tad... The moer DR/tankiness you have the less mobile you should be.
The NEW CW with shield PLUS the capstone that deals damage and ignores DR.... Pretty OP imo.
@ Crush - would it be possible to INSTEAD of halving the damage of the capstone in PVP (against players) if the ONLY difference was that it instead respected DR in PVP?
This would bring it back down a ways and tenacity+Dr/Deflect ETC could be factored into it. Even then it STILL may need a tone down.
I honestly dont know why this bypasses DR, in PVE most PVE players run 24% ARP to mitigate all DR anyways, so why does this do it? for PVP? Havnt we learned its bad to have things like this in PVP yet?
Thanks for the honest feedback here: maybe you can post (if you havnt) on the CW thread so this gets seen. Like I said, I am 100% behind the CW getting some love, even posted when this hit saying it looks interesting, but after playing with AND against it (in 2v2s etc) CWs are the tankiest class!
The ONLY way I can see this being viable, is if shield slowly drains stamina at this high of DR - so its not 100% uptime AND reduces the ability to blink as much. Otherwise it really should be toned down a tad... The moer DR/tankiness you have the less mobile you should be.
The NEW CW with shield PLUS the capstone that deals damage and ignores DR.... Pretty OP imo.
@ Crush - would it be possible to INSTEAD of halving the damage of the capstone in PVP (against players) if the ONLY difference was that it instead respected DR in PVP?
This would bring it back down a ways and tenacity+Dr/Deflect ETC could be factored into it. Even then it STILL may need a tone down.
I honestly dont know why this bypasses DR, in PVE most PVE players run 24% ARP to mitigate all DR anyways, so why does this do it? for PVP? Havnt we learned its bad to have things like this in PVP yet?
With as much attention the GF's are getting which was long overdue got to say pve wise I am really gunning to try the adjustments out as for pvp the simple fact that most damage is bypassing our new updated block and we have a cloth wearing class more survivable than a plate wearing GF...has me simply seeing a Mega-Facepalm moment. I know there's still time left for beta (preview) before we go live and more adjustments are probably ( I hope) scheduled for all the classes) but yeah it does seem we are being placed in a potentially worse situation for pvp than on live.
With as much attention the GF's are getting which was long overdue got to say pve wise I am really gunning to try the adjustments out as for pvp the simple fact that most damage is bypassing our new updated block and we have a cloth wearing class more survivable than a plate wearing GF...has me simply seeing a Mega-Facepalm moment. I know there's still time left for beta (preview) before we go live and more adjustments are probably ( I hope) scheduled for all the classes) but yeah it does seem we are being placed in a potentially worse situation for pvp than on live.
Well you will also love the fact that GWFs "mark" now also gives 20% damage bonus, CA, and isnt removed when hit.
So now GWFs have our tab/sprint/unstoppable. CWs can outtank GFs! LOL - sorry this is all tongue in cheek. I know Crush will show some love here! Although I dont see the direction he is taking.....
Well you will also love the fact that GWFs "mark" now also gives 20% damage bonus, CA, and isnt removed when hit.
So now GWFs have our tab/sprint/unstoppable. CWs can outtank GFs! LOL - sorry this is all tongue in cheek. I know Crush will show some love here! Although I dont see the direction he is taking.....
Indeed, those changes are a bit ... confusing, and slightly disheartening.
Olaf, freelance guardian fighter.
Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
Well you will also love the fact that GWFs "mark" now also gives 20% damage bonus, CA, and isnt removed when hit.
So now GWFs have our tab/sprint/unstoppable. CWs can outtank GFs! LOL - sorry this is all tongue in cheek. I know Crush will show some love here! Although I dont see the direction he is taking.....
Geez...bypassed the Mega-Facepalm moment and went into infinity mode....can we please stop giving our arch rival class the same things we get...they already are more survivable and bring more dps (though somewhat debatable if we tally up group buffs) to a group than us this is just adding insult to injury.
Crush, any chance this will get looked at and adjusted I mean seriously if this keeps up why not remove the GF's and give all our buffs to the GWF as well....sorry if that response is somewhat angered but...they wear scale (a version of chain) mail, don't use a shield and yet have more personal dps, can out survive us and faster movement just to name a few. I was in a good mood about the changes until Ayroux enlightened me on them getting our buffs we had suggested. I have never in 10 years on many different MMO's seen so much illogic with regards to classes i.e. the more damage a class can do the less survivable they are in pve and pvp but that base logic is out the window on this game....going to get drunk.
Comments
Oh thats different then. yeah thats not supposed to happen. I was talking specifically on the freezing from CW's that was mentioned about it.
I agree. At an equal gear level an HR and CW should not be able to survive on a node in the range of a heavily armoured melee fighter.
On a node it should be: GF -> GWF/DC -> TR (due to stealth and ITC) -> HR -> CW.
So very true.
It pained me to removed this because I wanted so badly to say the same thing but...yeah...
Even if feedback is amazingly bad in my own opinion due to using horrible points of view such as trying to blindly label a "Ranger" as a ranged class like any other two bit MMO is still valid feedback. Debating it in the Official Feedback Threads are a no go.
But yeah...
I don't care if you are a control wizard or any other "ranged class," get your sorry behind on that node because not fighting on the node is no better than going AFK...
And Rangers are NOT archers. Good grief as an avid fan of the ranger (who would have been happier without a bow on my back) being chumped in as a ranged class because of the name "Ranger" has to be one of my top 5 peeves.
You been watching my play?
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Right you guys, however any class who can kill from range is indeed ranged - while GWFs and GFs, who both have attacks that can do damage from a very long range, are not ranged. If you also have respectable melee capabilities ontop of your ranged attacks, then that is a subject for another discussion ( one that ponders on the question " Are HRs OP ? " )
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
GWF is a ranged class right now, they are their own projectiles throwing themselfes unto the enemies due threating rush. The GF with lunging strike and bulls charges is nearly the same. Ranged and melee are just terms to classify a combat style, not a class itself.
Or can u explain me how a fighter in plate armor can charge 60ft in the fraction of a second? Yeah…
Do u watch Game of Thrones? The fight between the Viper and the Mountain? Ur argumentation that heavy armored fighter should be kings of the nodes even fails a reality check, not to mention the situation in a very magical world.
No, it does not fail a reality check. The reality is chainmail and plater/scale armour > leather and cloth. The reality is a Longsword/Greatsword will tear through cloth and leather faster than a knife/dagger/shiv would get through heavy plate armour and an iron shield.
Yes, this is fantasy, but there should be some reasonableness to it. Cloth and leather clad fighters should not expect to have the same tankiness of fighters clad in chainmail, plater armour and scales. You have range, use it. If you come into the range of a melee fighter be prepared to get hurt.
And as for your Viper, he got physically overpowered in the end and had his skull crushed.
Kinda irrelevant as TR gets nerfed for GWFs and LS only kills if you target a runner with 1% HP left.. while the real ranged class executes CC and continuous dps from 80'
Do any of you actually consider the facts before proclaiming the GWF class as the one above all ? Right now on LIVE a GWF of 17K GS with 38K HP and 25k IBS crit with G.PF has to use: unlimited TR + broken Roar + full power Unstoppable + broken RamMad + PRONES to be able to catch and possibly beat equally geared and good CWs / HRs / DCs. Have you ever chased an immortal DC around the node with a GWF or a GF ? I guess not
Cmon now lets get real. GWF are not super dominant with gear/skill being even despite broken abilities/boons
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
PS: **************************************************************SPOILER********************************* The Mountain won and lives
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
This is a D&D WotC licensed title, and here are the definition of the Hunter Ranger from the official 4E source book "Players Handbook I":
Lets quote the definition of the Fighter class, shall we?
Now, lets take a closer look at the specific definition of the Guardian Fighter, and the assumption of people in this thread, a Guardian Fighter should be able to kill a hunter Ranger 1vs1.
Keep that quote in mind and imagine the situation on a node where a Hunter Ranger engages a GUARDIANfighter in a 1vs1:
About the Hunterranger:
Ok guys. Can you figure out that little quote puzzle by yourselfes? Or do I have to do that for you?
Which class might be more entitled to win an isolated 1vs1 situation?
guard is suppose to be stable in that sence if your pve your gonna need all the guard you can get to hold aggro against 20+adds why in the world are people still harping on this, and to even have that you have to slot 2 skills thatare for utility so it's working as intended. on the flip side try without those skills and see what happens.
Strange, I've been using this power for months in PvP and PvE and I almost never strike twice anymore. It's very sensitive, but it does not strike twice with only one key push. If you push the key twice then it will launch two GW successively, it may explain the confusion.
Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
the guard is good that its that stable because we still take dmg while guarding and in pvp to have it up that long requires you to have less dmg encounters on and players can still CC you anyway or just run behind you and in pve you can still take heavy dmg so i think its fine.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Not to mention we cant really do much damage aside from reflect (takes a class feature slot) or trying to stab in melee range...
Other classes tools (GWF - Unstoppable, TR - stealth, CW- new shield) all allows them to not only still MOVE quite well, but also attack.
So I agree its in a fair spot IMO.
Not sure what you are slotting, but even with Raven Skull artifact (+stam gain) the stam gain boon (+250) and the Sharandar 10% boon, AND Profound 4/4 I can assure you I dont have "endless block"
If block was at 100% mitigation it would need some sort of less downtime, given that its only 80% and classes like HR or CW have thing that ignore DR, I definitely DONT think its "OP" at all... Go duel a CW on the PTR or a good HR and youll see we still are not ULTRA TANKY...
Well Godmode figured it out he have almost endless block.
And i know he use BI gear.
You can, if you slot everything for it. Which IMO isnt OP. Also ive been Theory crafting with Godmode about this and he definitely doesnt think its OP either...
What you need to do this is Shield Talent (class feature), Raven (stam gain) Boon (stam gain) sharandar boon (stam gain)
And THEN slotting Iron Warrior for the additional stam gain you can get near endless block. But none of that really helps you because you cant attk while in block, AND it takes an encounter power away.
Also you STILL take 20% damage through block... And run slower.... So again, not OP at all.
You only need Shield Talent and Iron Warrior (or Enforced Threat). That's hardly "slotting everything for it". The only stam related boon I have on GF is the IWD boon
What is op about blocking 80% damage not to mention that piercing damage is the theme for mod 4 so this is no problem imo. Reason being to take an encounter slot for iron warrior in pvp is well silly because it will not help you control your opponent. The day we can use encounters while blocking then that becomes an issue(cough current cw shield).
EDIT: And as for pve please do try your perma block in the new dungeon without a dc i doubt you will live lol.
I moved to PTS and tested against a PVP GF/CW: Against the GF I could stall, but nothing more. If I try to attack him to kill him, I would easy lose. His 18k vs. 14.7k no PvP Protector with ~59.7% DR. That would be okay, BUT
I was murdered within 20s or so against the CW. He burn through my def(even BLOCK) like i was a fresh... nothing wearing GF. That's ridiculous! Yeah I had no Tenacity, but with 40k+59.7% so fast murdered is stupid...
And that's not all: With the powercreepfactor, the own Tree give the protector a disadvantage! -12% DR due new mark(so total -20% DR instead of the old -8% DR) AND on top of that: Many skills gain 20% or so more in damage! Even with the -10% damage done debuff the other both trees do more damage as before against us Protectors! Not fair...
Like it has been said the protector capstone should work and apply stacks when hit instead of having to attack.
I've asked repeatedly for them to tone down the Shield on tab so that it's same DR on and off tab.
I've recommended giving it some other benefit on tab other than DR
I am a CW not a tank, and I'd prefer leaving that job to someone who is built for it.
Mybe you shoud ask her when i saw him he have 50k hp no pets around 2 k power and almost zero armor pen 2 k crit.
But mybe i dont remember rigth .
Godmode is a He bro. Just saying... Maybe his char is a female - i havnt looked that closely. One thing I do know, ive been testing this ALOT myself and again, its not too strong which I think is hilarious that ppl were saying itll ruimn the class, and others say its too good.
He is a Male Dworf
Thanks for the honest feedback here: maybe you can post (if you havnt) on the CW thread so this gets seen. Like I said, I am 100% behind the CW getting some love, even posted when this hit saying it looks interesting, but after playing with AND against it (in 2v2s etc) CWs are the tankiest class!
The ONLY way I can see this being viable, is if shield slowly drains stamina at this high of DR - so its not 100% uptime AND reduces the ability to blink as much. Otherwise it really should be toned down a tad... The moer DR/tankiness you have the less mobile you should be.
The NEW CW with shield PLUS the capstone that deals damage and ignores DR.... Pretty OP imo.
@ Crush - would it be possible to INSTEAD of halving the damage of the capstone in PVP (against players) if the ONLY difference was that it instead respected DR in PVP?
This would bring it back down a ways and tenacity+Dr/Deflect ETC could be factored into it. Even then it STILL may need a tone down.
I honestly dont know why this bypasses DR, in PVE most PVE players run 24% ARP to mitigate all DR anyways, so why does this do it? for PVP? Havnt we learned its bad to have things like this in PVP yet?
With as much attention the GF's are getting which was long overdue got to say pve wise I am really gunning to try the adjustments out as for pvp the simple fact that most damage is bypassing our new updated block and we have a cloth wearing class more survivable than a plate wearing GF...has me simply seeing a Mega-Facepalm moment. I know there's still time left for beta (preview) before we go live and more adjustments are probably ( I hope) scheduled for all the classes) but yeah it does seem we are being placed in a potentially worse situation for pvp than on live.
Well you will also love the fact that GWFs "mark" now also gives 20% damage bonus, CA, and isnt removed when hit.
So now GWFs have our tab/sprint/unstoppable. CWs can outtank GFs! LOL - sorry this is all tongue in cheek. I know Crush will show some love here! Although I dont see the direction he is taking.....
Indeed, those changes are a bit ... confusing, and slightly disheartening.
Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
Geez...bypassed the Mega-Facepalm moment and went into infinity mode....can we please stop giving our arch rival class the same things we get...they already are more survivable and bring more dps (though somewhat debatable if we tally up group buffs) to a group than us this is just adding insult to injury.
Crush, any chance this will get looked at and adjusted I mean seriously if this keeps up why not remove the GF's and give all our buffs to the GWF as well....sorry if that response is somewhat angered but...they wear scale (a version of chain) mail, don't use a shield and yet have more personal dps, can out survive us and faster movement just to name a few. I was in a good mood about the changes until Ayroux enlightened me on them getting our buffs we had suggested. I have never in 10 years on many different MMO's seen so much illogic with regards to classes i.e. the more damage a class can do the less survivable they are in pve and pvp but that base logic is out the window on this game....going to get drunk.