epclipseingmoonMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
Wht we still need is the dr soft cap raised from 47% to maybe 55% or 65% if you spec protector. Deflection would not bother me really if our soft cap was raised. GF only I've course.
This is awesome, and in my opinion, these changes have answered the bill in regards to GFs being able to do anything monumental in PVP.
Tank GFs will buff the absolute hell out of their party to the point if you don't take them out then you are in a losing proposition. Not only that, but they also have the capability to bottom out a GWF's resistance after unstoppable.
Conqueror Focused GFs are going to be scary. Villain's menace will be a core skill here.
Really enjoying the direction of GFs in this game right now. It seems we have ALOT to choose from. Kudos! I would STILL highly recommend a few items that would really make this class shine... All of these truly make sense in that the GF is a support class but seeing as its also a striker should have the ability to shoot for a damage centric roll (maybe not THE most effective) as well.
OPTION 1) Stat re-work
CON = HP/ARP/AP gain
DEX = 1% deflect/.5% Crit
AC BOOSTED: 3%DR for every 2AC
OPTION 2) TAB re-work.
- Increase ALL weapon damage 15- 20% (this accounts for the "mark" damage) - solves a major issue with the class/enchants.
- Put Knights Valor on Tab.
- Make all "mark" abilities have a fixed duration (like Enforced Threat) that perform LIKE Tab Mark in that it gives all allies CA (maybe it already does this)
This gives GFs a little more options for viability in groups. Most GFs will be running Into the Fray and Knights Valor, they are just TOO good of party buffs to not run. I am fearful this is forcing GFs who will all look/spec the same (minus some rogue GFs who go Conq for DEEPS)
It also would be MUCH more fun to be able to slot KV on Tab THEN Into the Fray and still have TWO options for encounters. The other system only really allows 1 encounter making the GF feel more like a buff bot... Just my personal preference...
Knights Valor *NOW* seems much more like a great "tab" ability that we toggle on and off, and THIS would really give us more options for layouts. Especially NOW someone for PVE could run enforced threat and get an AOE mark instead of currently having a TAB mark that applies to 1 target only. Having more weapon damage helps the GF make up for the damage they would lose for this.
Please consider either one (or BOTH!) of these two changes! its not that the current changes are not great - but these would REALLY make the class shine and feel like it has strong capabilities for ALL specs.
EDIT: If your worried about KV not offering any "solo play" benefits, I believe it does, or it should, give a +% DR when activated, maybe 5%? This offers the GF solo play ability running around with KV active for solo play.
Wht we still need is the dr soft cap raised from 47% to maybe 55% or 65% if you spec protector. Deflection would not bother me really if our soft cap was raised. GF only I've course.
Right on! If we are never to have viable DPS then make **** sure we will always have the highest Damage Mitigation iin the game! There should never ever be any class higher in DR then the GF.
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
So basically I have to be a buff bot if I want to get into dungeons? ITF, KV and ET, and probably KC set. If I don't do this, I will get kicked from dungeons and called useless.
I like the fact you have made some major changes, but it looks to me like I am being pigeon holed into a certain playstyle/spec, just like currently I have to kite in FH or get kicked.
Please make conq spec a viable dps option for those of us that want to play that way - and no I do not want to roll GWF and lose all my epic companions/artifacts and have to start again. And before anyone says - GF is not a dps class I should have roledl GWF. When I rolled GF in open beta we could do decent dps with the SB set, and GWF were pretty uesless, so at the time I had chosen the correct class.
So basically I have to be a buff bot if I want to get into dungeons? ITF, KV and ET, and probably KC set. If I don't do this, I will get kicked from dungeons and called useless.
I like the fact you have made some major changes, but it looks to me like I am being pigeon holed into a certain playstyle/spec, just like currently I have to kite in FH or get kicked.
Please make conq spec a viable dps option for those of us that want to play that way - and no I do not want to roll GWF and lose all my epic companions/artifacts and have to start again. And before anyone says - GF is not a dps class I should have roledl GWF. When I rolled GF in open beta we could do decent dps with the SB set, and GWF were pretty uesless, so at the time I had chosen the correct class.
This is EXACTLY why I posted what I did. If KV was changed to our tab ability, and our weapons got a 15%+ increase in damage, this fixes the "buff bot" issue AND our problem with having VERY limited weapon enchant options.
Now back to some testing, (yey my new foundry is complete). I have to say again that i am against the new guard changes. The old way absorbing 100% was a way to keep marks on aoe targets, now they just drop off unless you spam threatening rush.
Please consider lowering the guard duration but making it 100%. You did want to buff our guard, so please just make it like the old version but with stamina please. The way it is now on preview just makes me want the old one most of the time in pve, and only the new one in pvp.
Grimah are you sure about the mark? The little testing I did seemed to keep mark on if I had my shield on, and I saw something Crush posted that it stays on if you block... I will try and find it...
Quoted from Crush on the discussion thread, think it was 7/10....
1. Works the same way as it did before. You generate AP based on incoming damage while blocking.
2. Yes. Marks are the same. The only difference is that your mark applied by tab is not removed when you are struck while *not* blocking.
I really like the longer duration guard and letting some damage through, and I like how it doesn't break. It will be even better when the DR works right.
Last time I tested, normal marks did not disappear if you blocked, even with the partial damage taken.
The new guard feels like it could be a big improvement in PvE, but I can't decide for PvP ... I would love to be able to test a working version and to have the queues back up on preview ...
Olaf, freelance guardian fighter.
Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
My group get ~65% damage bonus then alone from my fray(toggled KV). xD Then add the +8% from mark +20% from ToI and maybe weapon enchantment too. *.*
Out of that:
1) Can one post ARC+script for it? I want to test golems!
2) Does the capstone of protector(-20% damage from debuffed attacker) influence the reflected damage by Guarded Assault? -->10k Hit from enemy vs. me --> 300 damage to him. But 10k*0.8 = 8k = 240 damage to him or still 300?
3) It's WAI that CW can freeze through block with Ray of Frost?
EDIT: If your worried about KV not offering any "solo play" benefits, I believe it does, or it should, give a +% DR when activated, maybe 5%? This offers the GF solo play ability running around with KV active for solo play.
Sorry, but as Protector I write it clear: That's a big Brainshot suggestion. 1) KV is nearly useless in PvP. 2) It have even only a few moments in PvE. 3) A Protector feat give +5% DR while KV is active. 4) It kill the CA/-8% DR bonus! So NO NO AND AGAIN NO.
I'm excited to report we have finally fixed Block internally so that it will correctly resist 80% of incoming damage! As an added bonus it will now report in the combat log too for those of you who want to see how much HP your shield is actually saving.
This change should reach Preview this week barring anything going wrong
Bug
Last night testing new shield/etc I was using SM paragon, and class ability steel defense. I notice very odd interactions with SoS. First, it seemed that i was still taking damage after using the daily (did not see this with other daiies), and that it seemed to not be reflecting back any damage, meaning the damage reflected was 1,1,1,1,1,1 over and over again.
If this is WAI, that SoS doesn't reflect damage that you are made immune from, I would like to object to that. Steel Defense is a class ability that is triggered by a daily. If this effect cancels one of our dailies, and one that has good potential synergy with it, that is an issue.
My group get ~65% damage bonus then alone from my fray(toggled KV). xD Then add the +8% from mark +20% from ToI and maybe weapon enchantment too. *.*
Out of that:
1) Can one post ARC+script for it? I want to test golems!
2) Does the capstone of protector(-20% damage from debuffed attacker) influence the reflected damage by Guarded Assault? -->10k Hit from enemy vs. me --> 300 damage to him. But 10k*0.8 = 8k = 240 damage to him or still 300?
3) It's WAI that CW can freeze through block with Ray of Frost?
Sorry, but as Protector I write it clear: That's a big Brainshot suggestion. 1) KV is nearly useless in PvP. 2) It have even only a few moments in PvE. 3) A Protector feat give +5% DR while KV is active. 4) It kill the CA/-8% DR bonus! So NO NO AND AGAIN NO.
Im only responding to this in hopes that in the future they MAY consider this change. I realize you guys are probably strapped for time and this type of re-work will not happen.
1) ladysylvia - correct me if I am wrong but you hold yourself out as a PVE player. So I would kindly ask you to focus on your PVE play and I will focus on my PVP play With that said, KV has ALOT of value in PVP. If you are splitting damage with everyone how can anyone die? Nobody in their right mind would try and focus a CW or a DPS class with a GF splitting damage, this will force everyone to focus the GF, with our new block and HP pools, I think we can live up to that challenge!
I dont think you see some of the synergy that is possible with this one ability. Using SOS and KV combined deals massive damage to all attackers. I dont know if KV+SOS procs the protector capstone or not - but thats another one. Ontop of that, as a Conq spec GF, the ability to use KV as tab means that YOU control when you get your capstone bonus. Ontop of all that, KV for Tact helps you build MASSIVE AP as you are taking damage alot more often - see capstone.
So again, this has advantages for ALL specs.
2) You are worried about losing 8% CA damage but in your post above talk about how your party is gaining "My group get ~65% damage bonus then alone from my fray(toggled KV)" Then go to tell me KV is useless AND your scared of losing 8% damage but you give 65% more damage?
If you noticed my other posts as well, if they do modify other sources of mark - they should give CA advantage so a skill like Enforced Threat or Threat Rush (spammable aoe mark) on a GF can keep CA for your group. Also replacing tab only replaces a SOLO-MARK anyways.
3) Removing 20% damage for the GF leaves the GF VERY low on damage, so swapping this to an increased weapon damage ROUGHLY nets that out and allows the GFs MUCH more choice in weapon enchants - since that buffs encahnts by 20% as well.
So, I have to respectfully agree with you.
Overall - I dont think they will do this for mod 4 its probably too late, but Crush - CONSIDER this for mod 5? Heck since KV would be gone, maybe you can replace it with an encounter that provides a "hard mark" with a "hard taunt" just like mark does now, so people who want to, can still use the ability. (Basically your swapping KV to tab, and current "tab" to an encounter - maybe with a low CD.
I'm excited to report we have finally fixed Block internally so that it will correctly resist 80% of incoming damage! As an added bonus it will now report in the combat log too for those of you who want to see how much HP your shield is actually saving.
This change should reach Preview this week barring anything going wrong
Bug
Last night testing new shield/etc I was using SM paragon, and class ability steel defense. I notice very odd interactions with SoS. First, it seemed that i was still taking damage after using the daily (did not see this with other daiies), and that it seemed to not be reflecting back any damage, meaning the damage reflected was 1,1,1,1,1,1 over and over again.
If this is WAI, that SoS doesn't reflect damage that you are made immune from, I would like to object to that. Steel Defense is a class ability that is triggered by a daily. If this effect cancels one of our dailies, and one that has good potential synergy with it, that is an issue.
Second that. It also kinda (not)works like that on Live as well. I run Steel Defense and Briartwine and SoS all the time and I constantly reflect 0 or 1 damage while Steel Defense is in effect. I have not been able to reliably test if that also (not)works with Block up, but it seems like blocking also ends up reflecting 0.
The only thing I do notice is that the aggro still someone transfers to me - so I don't complain too much, as long as I have all the aggro and don't take damage, I'm a happy tank.
Second that. It also kinda (not)works like that on Live as well. I run Steel Defense and Briartwine and SoS all the time and I constantly reflect 0 or 1 damage while Steel Defense is in effect. I have not been able to reliably test if that also (not)works with Block up, but it seems like blocking also ends up reflecting 0.
The only thing I do notice is that the aggro still someone transfers to me - so I don't complain too much, as long as I have all the aggro and don't take damage, I'm a happy tank.
This is probably going to be unchangable.
Almost all reflective damage effects have to be able to look at the damage you took. I cant look at damage you will take before it gets acted on by you (i.e. if you Immune it, I can't know ahead of time what it would have done to you because you aren't a member of the effect yet). So while I can theoretically get to the number and ignore your resistance, I cant say "well if you immune it, do the math and find out what it would have been and then do that". You are reflecting what you actually took in these cases (which is zero, as immunity should do). So without drastically altering the behavior and design of those powers and reactive damage (and having them all reflect from pre resistance numbers, which is a much more dangerous problem) this will remain unchanged.
Im only responding to this in hopes that in the future they MAY consider this change. I realize you guys are probably strapped for time and this type of re-work will not happen.
1) ladysylvia - correct me if I am wrong but you hold yourself out as a PVE player. So I would kindly ask you to focus on your PVE play and I will focus on my PVP play With that said, KV has ALOT of value in PVP. If you are splitting damage with everyone how can anyone die? Nobody in their right mind would try and focus a CW or a DPS class with a GF splitting damage, this will force everyone to focus the GF, with our new block and HP pools, I think we can live up to that challenge!
I dont think you see some of the synergy that is possible with this one ability. Using SOS and KV combined deals massive damage to all attackers. I dont know if KV+SOS procs the protector capstone or not - but thats another one. Ontop of that, as a Conq spec GF, the ability to use KV as tab means that YOU control when you get your capstone bonus. Ontop of all that, KV for Tact helps you build MASSIVE AP as you are taking damage alot more often - see capstone.
So again, this has advantages for ALL specs.
2) You are worried about losing 8% CA damage but in your post above talk about how your party is gaining "My group get ~65% damage bonus then alone from my fray(toggled KV)" Then go to tell me KV is useless AND your scared of losing 8% damage but you give 65% more damage?
If you noticed my other posts as well, if they do modify other sources of mark - they should give CA advantage so a skill like Enforced Threat or Threat Rush (spammable aoe mark) on a GF can keep CA for your group. Also replacing tab only replaces a SOLO-MARK anyways.
3) Removing 20% damage for the GF leaves the GF VERY low on damage, so swapping this to an increased weapon damage ROUGHLY nets that out and allows the GFs MUCH more choice in weapon enchants - since that buffs encahnts by 20% as well.
So, I have to respectfully agree with you.
Overall - I dont think they will do this for mod 4 its probably too late, but Crush - CONSIDER this for mod 5? Heck since KV would be gone, maybe you can replace it with an encounter that provides a "hard mark" with a "hard taunt" just like mark does now, so people who want to, can still use the ability. (Basically your swapping KV to tab, and current "tab" to an encounter - maybe with a low CD.
At mod: Put this post and the quoted please to 'Guardian Fighter Discussion'.
To you: I'm not a strictly PvE Player. I play IWD and GG. No normal PvP. So in these both mods KV has nearly no usefulness. Making it to tab = Our class has no tab again. Okay I don't know if KV trigger on non-grouped allies. But out of that: It's an overkill. So many impacts is your fast dead. And for killing one/two guys? Pointless to say that is next to nothing.
SoS is a waste due its damage is your weapon damage. That's far less as you can ever deal with a normal damage daily. And most time I'm alone against an opponent. So it's again a wasted slot/tab.
2)
I don't think you understand this point in any aspect.
a) CA is alone 10% or more additional Damage b) -8% DR come on top of that for the allies.
So to your 'PVP': TR is easy removed by a single hit. Second it need the target to be in range. ET in PvP is a waste. So you lose this alone for your allies. In PvE I don't use ET/TR for solotanking Boss. That's again a lose for my team. So over ~25% damage are gone for my team because of the KV. Not to say, that you don't have TR in SM. So you depend on ET to mark the enemy. Nice downgrade man.
3) Then you lost by your own math. Increasing weapon damage by 20% != -20% DR on top.
Weapon Damage: 1000
a) DR = 0%
b) DR = -30%
20% Damage bonus:
a) 1000*1.2(damage bonus)*(1-DR) = 1200 damage
b) 1000*1.2(damage bonus)*(1-DR) = 1560 damage
--> Losing the -20% DR for +20% weapon:
a) DR --> 0%
b) DR = -30% --> -10%
a) 1200*1.2(damage bonus)*(1-DR) = 1440 damage
b) 1200*1.2(damage bonus)*(1-DR) = 1584 damage
In the baseline it's an increase from start. In the end it benefit from every additional damage bonus and especially -DR! So it's not the same as you imagine. In the above the CA damage bonus isn't counted in.
I don't tested if they fixed the bug with KV - applying Protector capstone debuff on yourself - but if not. It's a huge letdown.
As Protector I don't see any real good aspect. Neither for PvE(GS >> Requirement) nor for PvP.
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nwnghostMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
I may be mistaken (as I have not actually tested this properly), but from feeling, Knight's Valor intercepts pre-resistance damage, as GWFs that are Unstoppable while I have KV active still cause me to take about the same amount of damage compared to when they are not.
In terms of reflecting damage, is there any chance that this could be fixed to reflect damage to the player/monster rather than the entity damaging the player? For example Black Ice Beholder red circles, Hunter Ranger Thorn Wards, Devoted Cleric Daunting Light etc entities are currently "taking damage" when it is reflected
My group get ~65% damage bonus then alone from my fray(toggled KV). xD Then add the +8% from mark +20% from ToI and maybe weapon enchantment too. *.*
Out of that:
1) Can one post ARC+script for it? I want to test golems!
2) Does the capstone of protector(-20% damage from debuffed attacker) influence the reflected damage by Guarded Assault? -->10k Hit from enemy vs. me --> 300 damage to him. But 10k*0.8 = 8k = 240 damage to him or still 300?
3) It's WAI that CW can freeze through block with Ray of Frost?
Sorry, but as Protector I write it clear: That's a big Brainshot suggestion. 1) KV is nearly useless in PvP. 2) It have even only a few moments in PvE. 3) A Protector feat give +5% DR while KV is active. 4) It kill the CA/-8% DR bonus! So NO NO AND AGAIN NO.
Feedback
Guarded Assault while i love the idea of the skill guarded assault there are way to many numerous problems with it besides just the 3% damage it reflects i will let you in on some insight from exstensive tests on pre server
1. Guarded Assault does not proc any capstone at all so if your wondering about protectotor capstone proccing it doesnt, it also does not proc any weapon enchants whatsoever haveing G plague i wish it would proc this but nope nothing there. however it does proc Teneberous and it also adds to your stacks of rampaging madness if you have that.
2. the damage reflected back is so low it's laughable. especially in pvp, like you said if i get hit for 10k i would reflect back 300 which in turn is affected by the enemy players DR/Deflect/Tenacity thus lowering it even further so it's kind of a waste there. so to answer your question yes it will be effected by the protector capstone if you have it up already.
3.there is no good situation where this has any effect on anything in the game ever and if you can find one is it even worth it? even tanking in PVE i would never slot this
4. our class has no feats or other skills to bring the potential of this talent up at all so there it will remain forever at 3% reflected dmg it's your call if you choose to point this skill me i wish i could but it's not worth it.
Guarded Assault Consensus
To every GF out there i say this This skill is not worth pointing/slotting ever use your 3 points somewhere else it is a waste if you dont
I may be mistaken (as I have not actually tested this properly), but from feeling, Knight's Valor intercepts pre-resistance damage, as GWFs that are Unstoppable while I have KV active still cause me to take about the same amount of damage compared to when they are not.
In terms of reflecting damage, is there any chance that this could be fixed to reflect damage to the player/monster rather than the entity damaging the player? For example Black Ice Beholder red circles, Hunter Ranger Thorn Wards, Devoted Cleric Daunting Light etc entities are currently "taking damage" when it is reflected
It should be post resistance (it isn't flagged to look at before resistance but if you find cases where you can confirm this isn't the case let me know and I can dig).
As far as reflecting working right I belive I fixed SoS and Guarded Assault to now properly reflect at the owners of those effects
And it totally should apply your Protector Capstone. Ill fix that now.
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nwnghostMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
Thank you, the same probably applies to Briartwine Enchantment and Fey Thistle Boon.
Almost all reflective damage effects have to be able to look at the damage you took. I cant look at damage you will take before it gets acted on by you (i.e. if you Immune it, I can't know ahead of time what it would have done to you because you aren't a member of the effect yet). So while I can theoretically get to the number and ignore your resistance, I cant say "well if you immune it, do the math and find out what it would have been and then do that". You are reflecting what you actually took in these cases (which is zero, as immunity should do). So without drastically altering the behavior and design of those powers and reactive damage (and having them all reflect from pre resistance numbers, which is a much more dangerous problem) this will remain unchanged.
Thanks for the response! What confuses me is this... in the old "iron maiden" build, this used to work, and then it stopped working it seems. I can accept if things have changed and its no longer possible, but its a weird interaction lol.
Guardian Fighter: Guarded Assault: This class feature now reflects 5% of incoming damage per rank (up from 1%). This effect is still only active while blocking. It does now apply Iron Guard correctly.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: Damage from Knight's Valor can be properly reflected by Guarded Assault again. These reflections can also apply Iron Guard.
What this means is that if you slot Guarded Assault, turn on KV and hold that block up you will start spreading that capstone feat to everyone who hits you! Share the love!
Guardian Fighter: Guarded Assault: This class feature now reflects 5% of incoming damage per rank (up from 1%). This effect is still only active while blocking. It does now apply Iron Guard correctly.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: Damage from Knight's Valor can be properly reflected by Guarded Assault again. These reflections can also apply Iron Guard.
What this means is that if you slot Guarded Assault, turn on KV and hold that block up you will start spreading that capstone feat to everyone who hits you! Share the love!
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Hello Iron maiden!
This week has been awesome to be a guardian fighter imo
Guardian Fighter: Guarded Assault: This class feature now reflects 5% of incoming damage per rank (up from 1%). This effect is still only active while blocking. It does now apply Iron Guard correctly.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: Damage from Knight's Valor can be properly reflected by Guarded Assault again. These reflections can also apply Iron Guard.
What this means is that if you slot Guarded Assault, turn on KV and hold that block up you will start spreading that capstone feat to everyone who hits you! Share the love!
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Very sweet!
If only there was a way to have some type of reflect damage like this also proc weapon enchants LOL! That may be too OP though - I think SOS does though?
If only there was a way to have some type of reflect damage like this also proc weapon enchants LOL! That may be too OP though - I think SOS does though?
It will probably start doing that too. So...y'know, whee!
Also as another thought the fact that kv works for party members who are no where near the gf is really op in pvp fyi. I can see this being rather op as the gf is elsewhere yet he is protecting his team who are not near him at all.
Change KV to work in a aoe around the gf instead of just applying to everyone in the party.
Main-Lothor Syralth Guardian Fighter
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nwnghostMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
Nice change in terms of spreading Iron Guard.
For Guarded Assault, in a way, making that 5% instead of 1% per rank is still too little because it considers post-reduction damage.
In the old Block system, that reflected the full damage minus damage resistance. Under the new system, it will reflect damage minus damage resistance*0.2 (because Guard rather than making you "immune" reduces damage by 80%).
So in order to make it an actual 5 fold increase, it would need to be 25/50/75% of incoming damage reflected while Guarding
For boosting Guardian Fighter damage slightly, there is also still the matter with Steel Blitz and Crescendo dealing damage based on GWF weapon base damage (i.e. much reduced when translated to the GF weapon).
Only the changes to Weapon Master's Strike and Flourish actually were implemented according to the main patch notes
(For GWFs, Indomitable Strength (from Iron Vanguard) still deals more damage than it should as it is based on GF weapon base damage and GWFs have 80% more base weapon damage on greatswords)
Comments
Princess Amber - DC
Shieldmaiden Amber - GF
Valkyrie Amber - GWF
Huntress Amber - HR
Tank GFs will buff the absolute hell out of their party to the point if you don't take them out then you are in a losing proposition. Not only that, but they also have the capability to bottom out a GWF's resistance after unstoppable.
Conqueror Focused GFs are going to be scary. Villain's menace will be a core skill here.
Really enjoying the direction of GFs in this game right now. It seems we have ALOT to choose from. Kudos! I would STILL highly recommend a few items that would really make this class shine... All of these truly make sense in that the GF is a support class but seeing as its also a striker should have the ability to shoot for a damage centric roll (maybe not THE most effective) as well.
OPTION 1) Stat re-work
CON = HP/ARP/AP gain
DEX = 1% deflect/.5% Crit
AC BOOSTED: 3%DR for every 2AC
OPTION 2) TAB re-work.
- Increase ALL weapon damage 15- 20% (this accounts for the "mark" damage) - solves a major issue with the class/enchants.
- Put Knights Valor on Tab.
- Make all "mark" abilities have a fixed duration (like Enforced Threat) that perform LIKE Tab Mark in that it gives all allies CA (maybe it already does this)
This gives GFs a little more options for viability in groups. Most GFs will be running Into the Fray and Knights Valor, they are just TOO good of party buffs to not run. I am fearful this is forcing GFs who will all look/spec the same (minus some rogue GFs who go Conq for DEEPS)
It also would be MUCH more fun to be able to slot KV on Tab THEN Into the Fray and still have TWO options for encounters. The other system only really allows 1 encounter making the GF feel more like a buff bot... Just my personal preference...
Knights Valor *NOW* seems much more like a great "tab" ability that we toggle on and off, and THIS would really give us more options for layouts. Especially NOW someone for PVE could run enforced threat and get an AOE mark instead of currently having a TAB mark that applies to 1 target only. Having more weapon damage helps the GF make up for the damage they would lose for this.
Please consider either one (or BOTH!) of these two changes! its not that the current changes are not great - but these would REALLY make the class shine and feel like it has strong capabilities for ALL specs.
EDIT: If your worried about KV not offering any "solo play" benefits, I believe it does, or it should, give a +% DR when activated, maybe 5%? This offers the GF solo play ability running around with KV active for solo play.
I'm just...
SQUEEEEEEEEE!!!!!
Seriously though, wow. Any word yet on the guard rework?
Gloom level 60 Control Wizard
Dusk level 60 Trickster Rogue
Dawn level 60 Devoted Cleric
Eclipse level 60 Hunter Ranger
Wrath level 60 Great Weapon Fighter
Jinx level 60 Scourge Warlock
Right on! If we are never to have viable DPS then make **** sure we will always have the highest Damage Mitigation iin the game! There should never ever be any class higher in DR then the GF.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
I like the fact you have made some major changes, but it looks to me like I am being pigeon holed into a certain playstyle/spec, just like currently I have to kite in FH or get kicked.
Please make conq spec a viable dps option for those of us that want to play that way - and no I do not want to roll GWF and lose all my epic companions/artifacts and have to start again. And before anyone says - GF is not a dps class I should have roledl GWF. When I rolled GF in open beta we could do decent dps with the SB set, and GWF were pretty uesless, so at the time I had chosen the correct class.
This is EXACTLY why I posted what I did. If KV was changed to our tab ability, and our weapons got a 15%+ increase in damage, this fixes the "buff bot" issue AND our problem with having VERY limited weapon enchant options.
Please consider lowering the guard duration but making it 100%. You did want to buff our guard, so please just make it like the old version but with stamina please. The way it is now on preview just makes me want the old one most of the time in pve, and only the new one in pvp.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Quoted from Crush on the discussion thread, think it was 7/10....
1. Works the same way as it did before. You generate AP based on incoming damage while blocking.
2. Yes. Marks are the same. The only difference is that your mark applied by tab is not removed when you are struck while *not* blocking.
I really like the longer duration guard and letting some damage through, and I like how it doesn't break. It will be even better when the DR works right.
The new guard feels like it could be a big improvement in PvE, but I can't decide for PvP ... I would love to be able to test a working version and to have the queues back up on preview ...
Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
My group get ~65% damage bonus then alone from my fray(toggled KV). xD Then add the +8% from mark +20% from ToI and maybe weapon enchantment too. *.*
Out of that:
1) Can one post ARC+script for it? I want to test golems!
2) Does the capstone of protector(-20% damage from debuffed attacker) influence the reflected damage by Guarded Assault? -->10k Hit from enemy vs. me --> 300 damage to him. But 10k*0.8 = 8k = 240 damage to him or still 300?
3) It's WAI that CW can freeze through block with Ray of Frost?
Sorry, but as Protector I write it clear: That's a big Brainshot suggestion. 1) KV is nearly useless in PvP. 2) It have even only a few moments in PvE. 3) A Protector feat give +5% DR while KV is active. 4) It kill the CA/-8% DR bonus! So NO NO AND AGAIN NO.
This change should reach Preview this week barring anything going wrong
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Bug
Last night testing new shield/etc I was using SM paragon, and class ability steel defense. I notice very odd interactions with SoS. First, it seemed that i was still taking damage after using the daily (did not see this with other daiies), and that it seemed to not be reflecting back any damage, meaning the damage reflected was 1,1,1,1,1,1 over and over again.
If this is WAI, that SoS doesn't reflect damage that you are made immune from, I would like to object to that. Steel Defense is a class ability that is triggered by a daily. If this effect cancels one of our dailies, and one that has good potential synergy with it, that is an issue.
Im only responding to this in hopes that in the future they MAY consider this change. I realize you guys are probably strapped for time and this type of re-work will not happen.
1) ladysylvia - correct me if I am wrong but you hold yourself out as a PVE player. So I would kindly ask you to focus on your PVE play and I will focus on my PVP play
I dont think you see some of the synergy that is possible with this one ability. Using SOS and KV combined deals massive damage to all attackers. I dont know if KV+SOS procs the protector capstone or not - but thats another one. Ontop of that, as a Conq spec GF, the ability to use KV as tab means that YOU control when you get your capstone bonus. Ontop of all that, KV for Tact helps you build MASSIVE AP as you are taking damage alot more often - see capstone.
So again, this has advantages for ALL specs.
2) You are worried about losing 8% CA damage but in your post above talk about how your party is gaining "My group get ~65% damage bonus then alone from my fray(toggled KV)" Then go to tell me KV is useless AND your scared of losing 8% damage but you give 65% more damage?
If you noticed my other posts as well, if they do modify other sources of mark - they should give CA advantage so a skill like Enforced Threat or Threat Rush (spammable aoe mark) on a GF can keep CA for your group. Also replacing tab only replaces a SOLO-MARK anyways.
3) Removing 20% damage for the GF leaves the GF VERY low on damage, so swapping this to an increased weapon damage ROUGHLY nets that out and allows the GFs MUCH more choice in weapon enchants - since that buffs encahnts by 20% as well.
So, I have to respectfully agree with you.
Overall - I dont think they will do this for mod 4 its probably too late, but Crush - CONSIDER this for mod 5? Heck since KV would be gone, maybe you can replace it with an encounter that provides a "hard mark" with a "hard taunt" just like mark does now, so people who want to, can still use the ability. (Basically your swapping KV to tab, and current "tab" to an encounter - maybe with a low CD.
Thanks Chris! I cant wait to test this!!
Second that. It also kinda (not)works like that on Live as well. I run Steel Defense and Briartwine and SoS all the time and I constantly reflect 0 or 1 damage while Steel Defense is in effect. I have not been able to reliably test if that also (not)works with Block up, but it seems like blocking also ends up reflecting 0.
The only thing I do notice is that the aggro still someone transfers to me - so I don't complain too much, as long as I have all the aggro and don't take damage, I'm a happy tank.
This is probably going to be unchangable.
Almost all reflective damage effects have to be able to look at the damage you took. I cant look at damage you will take before it gets acted on by you (i.e. if you Immune it, I can't know ahead of time what it would have done to you because you aren't a member of the effect yet). So while I can theoretically get to the number and ignore your resistance, I cant say "well if you immune it, do the math and find out what it would have been and then do that". You are reflecting what you actually took in these cases (which is zero, as immunity should do). So without drastically altering the behavior and design of those powers and reactive damage (and having them all reflect from pre resistance numbers, which is a much more dangerous problem) this will remain unchanged.
At mod: Put this post and the quoted please to 'Guardian Fighter Discussion'.
To you: I'm not a strictly PvE Player. I play IWD and GG. No normal PvP. So in these both mods KV has nearly no usefulness. Making it to tab = Our class has no tab again. Okay I don't know if KV trigger on non-grouped allies. But out of that: It's an overkill. So many impacts is your fast dead. And for killing one/two guys? Pointless to say that is next to nothing.
SoS is a waste due its damage is your weapon damage. That's far less as you can ever deal with a normal damage daily. And most time I'm alone against an opponent. So it's again a wasted slot/tab.
2)
I don't think you understand this point in any aspect.
a) CA is alone 10% or more additional Damage b) -8% DR come on top of that for the allies.
So to your 'PVP': TR is easy removed by a single hit. Second it need the target to be in range. ET in PvP is a waste. So you lose this alone for your allies. In PvE I don't use ET/TR for solotanking Boss. That's again a lose for my team. So over ~25% damage are gone for my team because of the KV. Not to say, that you don't have TR in SM. So you depend on ET to mark the enemy. Nice downgrade man.
3) Then you lost by your own math. Increasing weapon damage by 20% != -20% DR on top.
Weapon Damage: 1000
a) DR = 0%
b) DR = -30%
20% Damage bonus:
a) 1000*1.2(damage bonus)*(1-DR) = 1200 damage
b) 1000*1.2(damage bonus)*(1-DR) = 1560 damage
--> Losing the -20% DR for +20% weapon:
a) DR --> 0%
b) DR = -30% --> -10%
a) 1200*1.2(damage bonus)*(1-DR) = 1440 damage
b) 1200*1.2(damage bonus)*(1-DR) = 1584 damage
In the baseline it's an increase from start. In the end it benefit from every additional damage bonus and especially -DR! So it's not the same as you imagine. In the above the CA damage bonus isn't counted in.
I don't tested if they fixed the bug with KV - applying Protector capstone debuff on yourself - but if not. It's a huge letdown.
As Protector I don't see any real good aspect. Neither for PvE(GS >> Requirement) nor for PvP.
In terms of reflecting damage, is there any chance that this could be fixed to reflect damage to the player/monster rather than the entity damaging the player? For example Black Ice Beholder red circles, Hunter Ranger Thorn Wards, Devoted Cleric Daunting Light etc entities are currently "taking damage" when it is reflected
Feedback
Guarded Assault
while i love the idea of the skill guarded assault there are way to many numerous problems with it besides just the 3% damage it reflects i will let you in on some insight from exstensive tests on pre server
1. Guarded Assault does not proc any capstone at all so if your wondering about protectotor capstone proccing it doesnt, it also does not proc any weapon enchants whatsoever haveing G plague i wish it would proc this but nope nothing there. however it does proc Teneberous and it also adds to your stacks of rampaging madness if you have that.
2. the damage reflected back is so low it's laughable. especially in pvp, like you said if i get hit for 10k i would reflect back 300 which in turn is affected by the enemy players DR/Deflect/Tenacity thus lowering it even further so it's kind of a waste there. so to answer your question yes it will be effected by the protector capstone if you have it up already.
3.there is no good situation where this has any effect on anything in the game ever and if you can find one is it even worth it? even tanking in PVE i would never slot this
4. our class has no feats or other skills to bring the potential of this talent up at all so there it will remain forever at 3% reflected dmg it's your call if you choose to point this skill me i wish i could but it's not worth it.
Guarded Assault Consensus
To every GF out there i say this This skill is not worth pointing/slotting ever use your 3 points somewhere else it is a waste if you dont
It should be post resistance (it isn't flagged to look at before resistance but if you find cases where you can confirm this isn't the case let me know and I can dig).
As far as reflecting working right I belive I fixed SoS and Guarded Assault to now properly reflect at the owners of those effects
And it totally should apply your Protector Capstone. Ill fix that now.
Thanks for the response! What confuses me is this... in the old "iron maiden" build, this used to work, and then it stopped working it seems. I can accept if things have changed and its no longer possible, but its a weird interaction lol.
Guardian Fighter: Guarded Assault: This class feature now reflects 5% of incoming damage per rank (up from 1%). This effect is still only active while blocking. It does now apply Iron Guard correctly.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: Damage from Knight's Valor can be properly reflected by Guarded Assault again. These reflections can also apply Iron Guard.
What this means is that if you slot Guarded Assault, turn on KV and hold that block up you will start spreading that capstone feat to everyone who hits you! Share the love!
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Hello Iron maiden!
This week has been awesome to be a guardian fighter imo
Very sweet!
If only there was a way to have some type of reflect damage like this also proc weapon enchants LOL! That may be too OP though - I think SOS does though?
It will probably start doing that too. So...y'know, whee!
I need to change my pants..... BRB....
OK.... ERMAGURDDDDDDD!!!!! WOW, HOLY BUFFS BATMAN!
Change KV to work in a aoe around the gf instead of just applying to everyone in the party.
For Guarded Assault, in a way, making that 5% instead of 1% per rank is still too little because it considers post-reduction damage.
In the old Block system, that reflected the full damage minus damage resistance. Under the new system, it will reflect damage minus damage resistance*0.2 (because Guard rather than making you "immune" reduces damage by 80%).
So in order to make it an actual 5 fold increase, it would need to be 25/50/75% of incoming damage reflected while Guarding
For boosting Guardian Fighter damage slightly, there is also still the matter with Steel Blitz and Crescendo dealing damage based on GWF weapon base damage (i.e. much reduced when translated to the GF weapon).
Only the changes to Weapon Master's Strike and Flourish actually were implemented according to the main patch notes
(For GWFs, Indomitable Strength (from Iron Vanguard) still deals more damage than it should as it is based on GF weapon base damage and GWFs have 80% more base weapon damage on greatswords)