Author's Note - Statements in this message in *no way* should be considered as me taking a potshot at the GF class. I'm glad to see you guys finally got some love and increased viability. I think your class (from my limited outsiders PoV) seems to be in a good place, although I'm sure there are tweaks/fixes to be made, as with all classes.
Threatening Rush - when will the lack of Marks be fixed? This has been broken since a week or two before launch.
Sentinel needs some love, guys. GF's can do more DPS in their tank spec and tank better in DPS spec than we can DPS *or* tank in a Sentinel spec. While I support us not being in the same caliber of tankiness, I do think the DPS is a bit sub par. In a Sentinel build with tanking level gear, I see maybe... a 20-30% increase in survivability. This is fine, as we are a light mobility tank, although I think our DR took a little too much of a hit in Sentinel (although part of this may be capstone bugginess, TBD) but we do, at best, 40-50% of Destro DPS. If we're lucky.
We shouldn't take *quite* the hit on DPS we do in exchange for the marginal increase in survivability we receive in Sentinel (although threat increase is, IMHO, "decent'ish" - again, some slight breakage in class skills - TR only Marks a single target impacts significantly for example).
When I say "at best 40-50% of Destro build", I really need to explain that in more detail. Testing in a vacuum - ie, just against parsing dummies, etc - I do just at 40% of my Destro build. That is to say, if I pull about 11k on dummies in destro, I'm seeing a shade over 4k in Senti.
In the real world, it's really closer to 15-20%. ON AVERAGE, in a dragon HE, I'll pull between 14-18K DPS. 18k DPS burst in short fights, 14-15k(ish) in sustained fights.
Going with the low end of 14K, vis a vis my open world tanking parses, I pull 3-4K. Tops.
Understand, I am NOT lobbying that GWF should be uberbuffed, etc etc etc. However, what I *am* saying is - there is no compelling reason *why* we should spec into the Sentinel tree unless you plan on spending 100% of your time in delves/dungeon runs, and even then - if you're really really good, you can just about be as effective DPS spec'd with some gear shuffle, and do 2-3 times the damage. It is nigh unto impossible to use this spec in open world PVE to solo, as the limited increase in survival is far overshadowed by the *massive* reduction in DPS. As an example - 9 minutes to do a Totem of Auril. And I'm having to use pots. DPS spec - Couple minutes tops, never touch a pot.
While on test, prior to Mod 4 launching, I did about 60% of my Destroyer build DPS, with about the same amount of survivability as what went live. This "felt" fairly close to where it should be dialed in. If I'm getting a 20-30% increase in tankiness, and some threat management tools, then yeah - I should see a penalty in damage dealt. But not a 2/3 reduction in damage output for a 1/3 increase in survivability.
Ultimately, as stated, there is NO compelling reason to go Sentinel.
I *like* playing hybrid tanks. What I'm ultimately hope for, as the (hopefully) continue to balance the class, is to bump things up a bit here to make this happen. And give us a better method of spec switching on Live than throwing 78K away each time
That, and for gods sake, fix the Instigator tree for PVP usage.
man if you have 8k power on a sentinel you do 40% less damage than a destroyer, cause his capstone feat says that he does 40% more damage.. that's the difference in dps and i dont see any problem with that...
Make sprint start and stop an instant animation similar to punishing charge burst, with only difference that the lenght is not fixed but determined by how long you press a button. Right now it lags. The animation starts but you get cced. Make it instant and precise to better time dodges, if you can
Give GWFs their prones back. At least on Takedown. Removing the prones from Takedown and IBS is basically turning an MMO into a board game. If necessary, you can reduce the range on Takedown, but as it is now, no one likes it. Neither the person being frontlined/"taken down", nor the GWF using it. It is ridiculous and it looks ridiculous.
My suggestion: short prone on Frontline, long prone on Takedown.
GWFs really aren't supposed to have a full-on dodge mechanic; that's what unstoppable is for. Allowing them to use it like that would be giving them the most dodges in the game (7).
True but unstoppable right now is laughable...50% hp lost roughly for 8 seconds during which you can be kited.
Also, remember that sprint is to close the gap too. So it's not 7 dodges cause the whole stamina must be used for BOTH gap closing and defensive movement. Improved response/ instant burst just allows a gwf to exactly know the immunity frames.
Devs justified the unstoppable nerf and sprint changes to 'bring sprint in line with other shift moves'. Being responsive is a part of being 'in line'.
True but unstoppable right now is laughable...50% hp lost roughly for 8 seconds during which you can be kited.
Also, remember that sprint is to close the gap too. So it's not 7 dodges cause the whole stamina must be used for BOTH gap closing and defensive movement. Improved response/ instant burst just allows a gwf to exactly know the immunity frames.
Devs justified the unstoppable nerf and sprint changes to 'bring sprint in line with other shift moves'. Being responsive is a part of being 'in line'.
I'd prefer keeping the actual Sprint and rework Unstoppable into a CC cleanse when activated, a DR removed but with more Sprint (or even infinite) and the next Encounter ameliorated (or even both when using Unstoppable)."Rage" like a barbarian.
Almost every class has at least 1 prone encounter. Which means they negate the GWF's deflect, and the GWF can't? pretty unfair. TakeDown is supposed to TAKE DOWN, right now it's more like TakeSTUN
I HATED roar-tards more than anyone, but GWF right now are pathetic and don't have their indimidating presence like they did in module 3.
Almost every class has at least 1 prone encounter. Which means they negate the GWF's deflect, and the GWF can't? pretty unfair. TakeDown is supposed to TAKE DOWN, right now it's more like TakeSTUN
I HATED roar-tards more than anyone, but GWF right now are pathetic and don't have their indimidating presence like they did in module 3.
I would find fighting a gwf player much more challenging if you guys got takedown prone back and its only fair.
I would find fighting a gwf player much more challenging if you guys got takedown prone back and its only fair.
I'm not personally a GWF (Only main a TR) But their current state is pitiful, but at least less pitiful than ours.
When I see a GWF, they aren't even intimidating anymore, they used to be alpha warriors who were afraid of nothing, now they're just idiots with a big sword lol... no offense to GWF's but this is how I see it after the developpers hit them with a nerf bat.
Takedown stunning is the most idiotic thing I've seen tbh... I'd understand FrontLine Surge... but this is TakeDOWN, but the guy doesn't go down lol. Go figure.
I'm not personally a GWF (Only main a TR) But their current state is pitiful, but at least less pitiful than ours.
When I see a GWF, they aren't even intimidating anymore, they used to be alpha warriors who were afraid of nothing, now they're just idiots with a big sword lol... no offense to GWF's but this is how I see it after the developpers hit them with a nerf bat.
Takedown stunning is the most idiotic thing I've seen tbh... I'd understand FrontLine Surge... but this is TakeDOWN, but the guy doesn't go down lol. Go figure.
Yeah in mod 3 they was OP but now they aren't much of a threat at all so I hope they get the original takedown back so they are able to do a little more dps again.
I disagree, I think the takedown prone really unbalanced the GWF. Feated it only had a 7 sec cooldown and made it so that IBS did full unmitigated damage.
I disagree, I think the takedown prone really unbalanced the GWF. Feated it only had a 7 sec cooldown and made it so that IBS did full unmitigated damage.
With an increased cooldown I think it would be fair, yes they could hit hard but at least they can die now, I hold my own against most gwf players very well and I'm glad about that since I hated them in mod 3 lol but all classes should be balanced and they need something back.
If devs rise the CD on Take down, then, they must rise its damage back too. And yes, i agree that TAKEDOWN must be the prone move for the GWF-class.
that's what I said, takedown back the way it was, just with longer cooldown Gwf was too much in mod 3 but many things have changed, not just takedown so i think if that comes back with increased cooldown it might balance things more, giving the gwf more options and dmg in fights.
that's what I said, takedown back the way it was, just with longer cooldown Gwf was too much in mod 3 but many things have changed, not just takedown so i think if that comes back with increased cooldown it might balance things more, giving the gwf more options and dmg in fights.
gwf should not be alowed to enter pvp and that will make the game balanced...
My experience so far is that GWF can right now go either destroyer with a sprint-centered, hit-and-run build, or sentinel with high power, daring shout and may be restoring strike. The way i see it is that the first is a strong hit-and-run DPSer (battle fury feated with right feats and boons + bravery can take you away even from epic mounts), the other is a strong tank brawler (but didn't test sentinel yet).
Shortcomings are there obviously.
A Destroyer sprint build with takedown have a super-hard time landing a stun. Takedown animation should be an insta-cast or a much faster animation, and a prone, to make a sprinter+ takedown build truly viable. Would require skills to chase the enemy and catch him, but at least you'd have a proper tool to then stun the enemy. Right now, this "build" that uses the tools given to a destroyer (feated battle fury and takedown, feated IBS), is weak against pretty much any good dodger CW, TR, or HR. Unless you truly are skilled or can see in the future and actually anticipate their dodge/ movements.
A sentinel using, let's say, daring shout+ FLS + RS lose the damage from IBS but have the improved healing from RS on capstone, DR from daring shout and damage from the feat. Using also Daring shout+ come and get it deals roughly your power as damage, but you lose stuns. Not that it hurts you since RS is not impossible to land even if you don't stun the enemy, unlike IBS. So you go high HP and high power, that's my guess.
This sentinel type isa lot less kitable since mostly uses AoE attacks and in a brawl he can get the most out of them.
Feedback:
give takedown back prone
give takedown a faster animation to make it less dodgeable, and more viable as a CC opening move. Would not affect a FLS-takedown combo since there you already land it, but would make a sprinter build more viable and still skill-dependant.
give CC immunity on sprint to destroyer and instigators only. Squishy as they are, they need now the freedom of movement or they are dead. Add it through feats and take it away from sentinels. To sentinels, give through feats a bit better determination gain to allow them to make the best use of unstoppable.
get ur final build with 8k power 1k crit 1,4 armor pen , over 3k defense over 1,5 deflect
and play with soulforge/barkshield/negation and gpf / holyavenger/ lighting..
the reason why ?
well taking relentless battle fury will give takedown 25% more damage , takedown damage was nerfed with 30% damage, after you use come and get it will give your takedown 20% more damage
havin alot of power it's more better than being a destroyer waiting for your destroyer purpose to stack.
and havin this combo will give you
4k damage from come and get it (depends on how much power you have)
and take down faster cooldown ~
this combination will help you land a ibs more or less.
feedback: on Threating rush make the charges cooldown separately
for example charge 1 to have it's own cooldown, charge 2 to have it's own coold and charge 3 to have it's own cooldown
cause as i am waiting for my first charge to recharge and then for the 2nd charge when it's at 5-4 seconds and i use the only charge, it will start over the cooldown from 9 . so this ain't cool .
every charge to have it's own cooldown it's better and not annoyn, and this will not be spammed either, so it's a win win , givin the gwf a better mobility .
le: nevermind they've done this changes on threating rush.. tried on puppets now ~
This build is for PvP, PvE or both?. I am still testiing my builds... but i have one SM destroyer build "viable" for PvP...
ofc it's for pvp ... i didn't finished yet this build but if you get that combination of stats then it's good...
therefor i am waiting for con belt + golden sword (artifact belt and weapon) , when i achive that i shall post my build..
but the combination of feats are the best way, takin in consideration having more damage resistance from Unstopable it doesn't matter from all this DOT / damage from other classes...
so go full purified + golden sword + random knot that helps ur stats , and on right everything that gives you power, constitution belt . on offense/defense slots you put only radiants. and from boons put everythin that helps in pvp.
this build won't make u immortal, but it will give you nice control or as it should supposed to be... now i cannot guarantee you can transform dust into gold, cause as we know gwf is broken in many ways... and facing high end hrs/cws/gfs will result in always dead....
Comments
Threatening Rush - when will the lack of Marks be fixed? This has been broken since a week or two before launch.
Sentinel needs some love, guys. GF's can do more DPS in their tank spec and tank better in DPS spec than we can DPS *or* tank in a Sentinel spec. While I support us not being in the same caliber of tankiness, I do think the DPS is a bit sub par. In a Sentinel build with tanking level gear, I see maybe... a 20-30% increase in survivability. This is fine, as we are a light mobility tank, although I think our DR took a little too much of a hit in Sentinel (although part of this may be capstone bugginess, TBD) but we do, at best, 40-50% of Destro DPS. If we're lucky.
We shouldn't take *quite* the hit on DPS we do in exchange for the marginal increase in survivability we receive in Sentinel (although threat increase is, IMHO, "decent'ish" - again, some slight breakage in class skills - TR only Marks a single target impacts significantly for example).
When I say "at best 40-50% of Destro build", I really need to explain that in more detail. Testing in a vacuum - ie, just against parsing dummies, etc - I do just at 40% of my Destro build. That is to say, if I pull about 11k on dummies in destro, I'm seeing a shade over 4k in Senti.
In the real world, it's really closer to 15-20%. ON AVERAGE, in a dragon HE, I'll pull between 14-18K DPS. 18k DPS burst in short fights, 14-15k(ish) in sustained fights.
Going with the low end of 14K, vis a vis my open world tanking parses, I pull 3-4K. Tops.
Understand, I am NOT lobbying that GWF should be uberbuffed, etc etc etc. However, what I *am* saying is - there is no compelling reason *why* we should spec into the Sentinel tree unless you plan on spending 100% of your time in delves/dungeon runs, and even then - if you're really really good, you can just about be as effective DPS spec'd with some gear shuffle, and do 2-3 times the damage. It is nigh unto impossible to use this spec in open world PVE to solo, as the limited increase in survival is far overshadowed by the *massive* reduction in DPS. As an example - 9 minutes to do a Totem of Auril. And I'm having to use pots. DPS spec - Couple minutes tops, never touch a pot.
While on test, prior to Mod 4 launching, I did about 60% of my Destroyer build DPS, with about the same amount of survivability as what went live. This "felt" fairly close to where it should be dialed in. If I'm getting a 20-30% increase in tankiness, and some threat management tools, then yeah - I should see a penalty in damage dealt. But not a 2/3 reduction in damage output for a 1/3 increase in survivability.
Ultimately, as stated, there is NO compelling reason to go Sentinel.
I *like* playing hybrid tanks. What I'm ultimately hope for, as the (hopefully) continue to balance the class, is to bump things up a bit here to make this happen. And give us a better method of spec switching on Live than throwing 78K away each time
That, and for gods sake, fix the Instigator tree for PVP usage.
Thanks.
Cthon
Make sprint start and stop an instant animation similar to punishing charge burst, with only difference that the lenght is not fixed but determined by how long you press a button. Right now it lags. The animation starts but you get cced. Make it instant and precise to better time dodges, if you can
Like SW no ?
My suggestion: short prone on Frontline, long prone on Takedown.
Flourish needs faster animation or CC immunity on cast.
Bravery needs it old 15% deflect back.
Takedown needs it prone and dmg back.
Steel Blitz need higher % activation chance and dmg.
Frontline Surge needs it dmg back.
GWF should get 2-3% dmg per STR point
come on devs we re stuck with 2k base dmg encounters unless we pick destroyer tree.
True but unstoppable right now is laughable...50% hp lost roughly for 8 seconds during which you can be kited.
Also, remember that sprint is to close the gap too. So it's not 7 dodges cause the whole stamina must be used for BOTH gap closing and defensive movement. Improved response/ instant burst just allows a gwf to exactly know the immunity frames.
Devs justified the unstoppable nerf and sprint changes to 'bring sprint in line with other shift moves'. Being responsive is a part of being 'in line'.
I'd prefer keeping the actual Sprint and rework Unstoppable into a CC cleanse when activated, a DR removed but with more Sprint (or even infinite) and the next Encounter ameliorated (or even both when using Unstoppable)."Rage" like a barbarian.
Almost every class has at least 1 prone encounter. Which means they negate the GWF's deflect, and the GWF can't? pretty unfair. TakeDown is supposed to TAKE DOWN, right now it's more like TakeSTUN
I HATED roar-tards more than anyone, but GWF right now are pathetic and don't have their indimidating presence like they did in module 3.
I would find fighting a gwf player much more challenging if you guys got takedown prone back and its only fair.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I'm not personally a GWF (Only main a TR) But their current state is pitiful, but at least less pitiful than ours.
When I see a GWF, they aren't even intimidating anymore, they used to be alpha warriors who were afraid of nothing, now they're just idiots with a big sword lol... no offense to GWF's but this is how I see it after the developpers hit them with a nerf bat.
Takedown stunning is the most idiotic thing I've seen tbh... I'd understand FrontLine Surge... but this is TakeDOWN, but the guy doesn't go down lol. Go figure.
Yeah in mod 3 they was OP but now they aren't much of a threat at all so I hope they get the original takedown back so they are able to do a little more dps again.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
With an increased cooldown I think it would be fair, yes they could hit hard but at least they can die now, I hold my own against most gwf players very well and I'm glad about that since I hated them in mod 3 lol but all classes should be balanced and they need something back.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
that's what I said, takedown back the way it was, just with longer cooldown
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
gwf should not be alowed to enter pvp and that will make the game balanced...
Shortcomings are there obviously.
A Destroyer sprint build with takedown have a super-hard time landing a stun. Takedown animation should be an insta-cast or a much faster animation, and a prone, to make a sprinter+ takedown build truly viable. Would require skills to chase the enemy and catch him, but at least you'd have a proper tool to then stun the enemy. Right now, this "build" that uses the tools given to a destroyer (feated battle fury and takedown, feated IBS), is weak against pretty much any good dodger CW, TR, or HR. Unless you truly are skilled or can see in the future and actually anticipate their dodge/ movements.
A sentinel using, let's say, daring shout+ FLS + RS lose the damage from IBS but have the improved healing from RS on capstone, DR from daring shout and damage from the feat. Using also Daring shout+ come and get it deals roughly your power as damage, but you lose stuns. Not that it hurts you since RS is not impossible to land even if you don't stun the enemy, unlike IBS. So you go high HP and high power, that's my guess.
This sentinel type isa lot less kitable since mostly uses AoE attacks and in a brawl he can get the most out of them.
Feedback:
give takedown back prone
give takedown a faster animation to make it less dodgeable, and more viable as a CC opening move. Would not affect a FLS-takedown combo since there you already land it, but would make a sprinter build more viable and still skill-dependant.
give CC immunity on sprint to destroyer and instigators only. Squishy as they are, they need now the freedom of movement or they are dead. Add it through feats and take it away from sentinels. To sentinels, give through feats a bit better determination gain to allow them to make the best use of unstoppable.
get ur final build with 8k power 1k crit 1,4 armor pen , over 3k defense over 1,5 deflect
and play with soulforge/barkshield/negation and gpf / holyavenger/ lighting..
the reason why ?
well taking relentless battle fury will give takedown 25% more damage , takedown damage was nerfed with 30% damage, after you use come and get it will give your takedown 20% more damage
havin alot of power it's more better than being a destroyer waiting for your destroyer purpose to stack.
and havin this combo will give you
4k damage from come and get it (depends on how much power you have)
and take down faster cooldown ~
this combination will help you land a ibs more or less.
feedback: on Threating rush make the charges cooldown separately
for example charge 1 to have it's own cooldown, charge 2 to have it's own coold and charge 3 to have it's own cooldown
cause as i am waiting for my first charge to recharge and then for the 2nd charge when it's at 5-4 seconds and i use the only charge, it will start over the cooldown from 9 . so this ain't cool .
every charge to have it's own cooldown it's better and not annoyn, and this will not be spammed either, so it's a win win , givin the gwf a better mobility .
le: nevermind they've done this changes on threating rush.. tried on puppets now ~
ofc it's for pvp ... i didn't finished yet this build but if you get that combination of stats then it's good...
therefor i am waiting for con belt + golden sword (artifact belt and weapon) , when i achive that i shall post my build..
but the combination of feats are the best way, takin in consideration having more damage resistance from Unstopable it doesn't matter from all this DOT / damage from other classes...
so go full purified + golden sword + random knot that helps ur stats , and on right everything that gives you power, constitution belt . on offense/defense slots you put only radiants. and from boons put everythin that helps in pvp.
this build won't make u immortal, but it will give you nice control or as it should supposed to be... now i cannot guarantee you can transform dust into gold, cause as we know gwf is broken in many ways... and facing high end hrs/cws/gfs will result in always dead....
indeed it's a good feat, but you already have 20% from ur mark , and that damage won't stack with the damage from come and get it...