I really do not see any point to picking sent now since unstoppable is back to live values.
Either I cant calculate or I missed a Dev post. How is unstoppable back to live values.
On a sidenote, I dont agree with GF QQ 'we are bad so make GWF as bad, so I dont have to cry alone', but I can somehow understand it. BUT a HR QQ ing about OP GWFs in Mod 4 has to be a joke, right?
Either I cant calculate or I missed a Dev post. How is unstoppable back to live values.
On a sidenote, I dont agree with GF QQ 'we are bad so make GWF as bad, so I dont have to cry alone', but I can somehow understand it. BUT a HR QQ ing about OP GWFs in Mod 4 has to be a joke, right?
No! we do not want GWf to be bad at all... We want a DPS specced GWF to be an offensive GOD, but not have the damage mitigation survivability. We don't ask for GWf to be a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> class like us, we ask for the GWF to NOT have all out tools but better forms of them!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Hey all, we have a few more changes hopefully hitting this week.
Unstoppable: Now grants 15~30% DR when activated (up from 10~20%).
Sprint: Stamina cost of Sprint reduced by roughly 40%.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Thanks for the update. What am about to write next is for any non-GWF player who comes here to troll ( yes, troll because that is what you are doing fellow players. A person who only experiences the GWF from the wrong end of the sword is not really suited to give feedback thanks )
Currently on LIVE even highly geared GWFs do not and I repeat do not eat competent CWs and HRs alive like many people would want you to believe. Even with unlimited gap closer ( TR ) even with 50% DR in Unstop people who know what they are doing can and will dodge and can and will kill you. Mod 4 will bring a massive nerf to the IV GWF, honestly the only reason I use IV is because of TR. I dont care for FLS. So keep in mind that in MOD 4 GWFs wont be able to catch the people that we currently have trouble catching and dont even get me started on the DCs. Currently we have DCs on LIVE who can dodge/heal on a node for a very long time - its crazy. Picture that without prones and without rush and you get a stamina-less GWF who cant counter a DC at all. Sure this is an extreme example but you get the point. And in case you didnt get the point, here it is - GWFs are not as OP on LIVE as many people claim them to be. You can only say a class is OP or broken once you've played it to a certain GS level and have countless pvp fights under your virtual belt..
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Tried my rarely-played GWF on Preview again with the recent "buffs". The Unstoppable DR makes it boring to play again. At least with smaller DR increase I had to think about what I was doing, now it's back to thoughtless unkillable spam.
Co-Founder of -Valor-
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited July 2014
Moderator Notice:
. . . Stay on topic folks. This is NOT a discussion thread. This is a feedback thread. If you wish to discuss elements on this thread, do so in the Discussion thread for this topic, which can easily be found by looking at the forum for "Discussion" threads on that class. Do not reply to this notice, instead contact us via Private Message to discuss forum moderation. Thanks!
Safe travels,
Archmage Zebular of Mystryl PWE Community Moderator
The change to 15-30% DR on Unstoppable is much appreciated for DPS PvE builds. They still won't be nearly invincible but will still be plenty viable. I've got a 15k GWF Swordmaster Destroyer that's primarily focused on offensive stata and I'm happy it will still be useful, but not overly so and that it'll need some good DC/GF/control support. My CW and DC also appreciate being needed to give that support.
It's also appreciated for Destroyer DWF's in PvP, but GWF's that can get 45% DR and 20% DR from tenacity could still hit the 80% DR cap at 50% determination. That's only a concern for very high end pvp, since i've got a 17k GWF Iron Vanguard Destroyer that would cap out at about 77% at 50%. But most GWF's with PvP gear would be able to hit the 80% DR cap at 100% determination, so 15-30% might be too much for PvP.
Just call me Rod. Member of Grievance! CW: Rodrant Turnbul TR: Rodran DC: Rodrat GWF: ROARdrant TurnBRAWL Other GWF: Shieldrant HR: Bowdrant SW: Wardrant Turnlock (my main!) OP: Paladrant (on Preview!)
players of this forum try to reverse the order of things, either by innocence, whether by treachery. The most fragile class, cw, dont need a gf AND IS THE BEST FOR PROTECT THE PARTY (+ dps).
Why then should the gwf need a gf?
I'm waiting for the moment when the defensive quality of gwf have some logistic function for the party. ALL thedangerous enemies, has melee / aoe. 15-30 , in this scenario, is a gross nerf (yes, I changed my mind).
25-50 + sm buffs.
and you know what? revert iv changes too. one thing is to make sensibile changes in the iv (take x, give y) another thing is a unilateral nerf just to calm angry players. no more, kakarot.
The change to 15-30% DR on Unstoppable is much appreciated for DPS PvE builds. They still won't be nearly invincible but will still be plenty viable. I've got a 15k GWF Swordmaster Destroyer that's primarily focused on offensive stata and I'm happy it will still be useful, but not overly so and that it'll need some good DC/GF/control support. My CW and DC also appreciate being needed to give that support.
It's also appreciated for Destroyer DWF's in PvP, but GWF's that can get 45% DR and 20% DR from tenacity could still hit the 80% DR cap at 50% determination. That's only a concern for very high end pvp, since i've got a 17k GWF Iron Vanguard Destroyer that would cap out at about 77% at 50%. But most GWF's with PvP gear would be able to hit the 80% DR cap at 100% determination, so 15-30% might be too much for PvP.
Thats a good point. Maybe the best thing to do is make the pvp unstoppable do 5-10% and pve unstoppable do 15-30%. It is pretty easy to hit DR cap as GWF.
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reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Thats a good point. Maybe the best thing to do is make the pvp unstoppable do 5-10% and pve unstoppable do 15-30%. It is pretty easy to hit DR cap as GWF.
Well not all GWF's are built that way. on live my GWF DR is capped at about 66% with a full unstoppable. And only has about 14% tenacity.
All the fighters however can easily cap thier DR at times from the changes on preview. Not to mention with all the debuffs going around. Not all the GFs and GWF's will be capped at 80% DR everytime in addition, this DR is temporary for both fighters. With the new unstoppable, Sentinels also wont hit for so little anymore, they can focus on more offensive stats now while having the default defenses they need.
15-30% is not too much for PVP, 80% DR is ripped to shredders by plague , also we GWF are frontline fighter , we get ganked maximum amount of time and we dont even have dodges , so we need unstoppable at 15-30% , and unstoppable is an active skill so when u active u get DR so stop telling agin and again that GWF will hit cap stone , say they will hit capstone when they use it and determination generation is also decrease , how do u plan to fight in PVP when even in 1v1 every class is able to kill us in 2-5min(except DC).
those guys who havent ever stepped in PVP dont comment about PVP.
I think that 80% DR cap is too low... 90% DR or maybe 95% DR is the right value... almost all GWFs are too easy to kill and need more protection.
Add 99% DR and CC immunity to sprint (and double the speed) for a save escape (not sure if 99% is sufficient, probable half GWFs die when try to escape with the remain 1%, maybe is better 100% DR and cc immunity).
Add also a IQ test for create GWF toons and not permit at ppl with 100+ IQ to use GWFs (all guys in that have post in this thread are safe and under the bar, so no problem for they GWFs).
Add perma unstoppable at the class.. press the tab key every 8 seconds is hard and need some skills with the fingers.
Is ok ask super buffs for a clown class, but please avoid ask nerfs for other classes (in HRs thread 4/5 of the posts are from GWFs asking nerfs, same but in lesser extend in the CW thread).
HR Syncro - The Equalizer - PvP stats: 10000/4800 (kills/deaths)
The change to 15-30% DR on Unstoppable is much appreciated for DPS PvE builds. They still won't be nearly invincible but will still be plenty viable. I've got a 15k GWF Swordmaster Destroyer that's primarily focused on offensive stata and I'm happy it will still be useful, but not overly so and that it'll need some good DC/GF/control support. My CW and DC also appreciate being needed to give that support.
It's also appreciated for Destroyer DWF's in PvP, but GWF's that can get 45% DR and 20% DR from tenacity could still hit the 80% DR cap at 50% determination. That's only a concern for very high end pvp, since i've got a 17k GWF Iron Vanguard Destroyer that would cap out at about 77% at 50%. But most GWF's with PvP gear would be able to hit the 80% DR cap at 100% determination, so 15-30% might be too much for PvP.
People like this should not be allowed to post. If you dont know how tenacity even works then you should not be posting ignorance. Tencity is multiplicative and Doesnt add like youve suggested here.
To get 45% dr you have to gear 100% defensively with sent gear giving up offensive stats, alit of stats...
At 45% DR and 20% tenacity you DONT have 65% dr. Tenacity is seperate and doesnt count towards the cap.
1000 dmg comes in. You mitigate 45%(450) leaving 550 dmg. THEN yenacity is applied at 20%(110) leaving 440 damage.
So 45% dr + 20% tenacity is only an equivalent of 56% DR... But at 50% unstoppable you only get 15%+base 45%.
So THIS means:
1000 comes in. 65% mitigated(650) leaving 350 which THEN is mitigated by tenacity another 20%(70) leaving you at 280 damage received.
What does that mean?
45%DR TANK geared gwf + unstoppable + 20% tenacity only ais an equivalent 72% DR... Oh and btw most people in pvp stack 25%+ ARP so.... Do the math and learn how things work before posting ignorance.
People like this should not be allowed to post. If you dont know how tenacity even works then you should not be posting ignorance. Tencity is multiplicative and Doesnt add like youve suggested here.
To get 45% dr you have to gear 100% defensively with sent gear giving up offensive stats, alit of stats...
At 45% DR and 20% tenacity you DONT have 65% dr. Tenacity is seperate and doesnt count towards the cap.
1000 dmg comes in. You mitigate 45%(450) leaving 550 dmg. THEN yenacity is applied at 20%(110) leaving 440 damage.
So 45% dr + 20% tenacity is only an equivalent of 56% DR... But at 50% unstoppable you only get 15%+base 45%.
So THIS means:
1000 comes in. 65% mitigated(650) leaving 350 which THEN is mitigated by tenacity another 20%(70) leaving you at 280 damage received.
What does that mean?
45%DR TANK geared gwf + unstoppable + 20% tenacity only ais an equivalent 72% DR... Oh and btw most people in pvp stack 25%+ ARP so.... Do the math and learn how things work before posting ignorance.
I do appreciate knowing this now, but I don't appreciate the snark that came with it. This is how feedback threads get derailed with arguments that end up getting kicked to the discussion thread.
Just call me Rod. Member of Grievance! CW: Rodrant Turnbul TR: Rodran DC: Rodrat GWF: ROARdrant TurnBRAWL Other GWF: Shieldrant HR: Bowdrant SW: Wardrant Turnlock (my main!) OP: Paladrant (on Preview!)
People like this should not be allowed to post. If you dont know how tenacity even works then you should not be posting ignorance. Tencity is multiplicative and Doesnt add like youve suggested here.
To get 45% dr you have to gear 100% defensively with sent gear giving up offensive stats, alit of stats...
At 45% DR and 20% tenacity you DONT have 65% dr. Tenacity is seperate and doesnt count towards the cap.
1000 dmg comes in. You mitigate 45%(450) leaving 550 dmg. THEN yenacity is applied at 20%(110) leaving 440 damage.
So 45% dr + 20% tenacity is only an equivalent of 56% DR... But at 50% unstoppable you only get 15%+base 45%.
So THIS means:
1000 comes in. 65% mitigated(650) leaving 350 which THEN is mitigated by tenacity another 20%(70) leaving you at 280 damage received.
What does that mean?
45%DR TANK geared gwf + unstoppable + 20% tenacity only ais an equivalent 72% DR... Oh and btw most people in pvp stack 25%+ ARP so.... Do the math and learn how things work before posting ignorance.
wrong calculation... its true that for example with 20% tenacity a overall indication that with 45% DR/0.80 = about 56% dmg reduction, but is wrong... for example with 80% DR and 25% tenacity if one use the multiplicative formula is 100% damage riduction (wrong).
Better simple say that tenacity is another mitigation layer.
HR Syncro - The Equalizer - PvP stats: 10000/4800 (kills/deaths)
Devs, please, stop listening to all this QQ, it will end up in creating another imba class people will cry about for another half a year. Right now GWF is a god mode, not HR. HR is just an annoyance like perma TR, they cannot burst down any opponent while surviving hard CC and damage. Once HR is CC'd, he's dead. Once TR is CC'd, he's dead. GWF is getting damage without need to have offensive stats. Free crit, free arp, free +40% damage plus trample the fallen or destroyer - pick whatever you want while being super tanky. After the update, if you decide to roll out CC immunity + DR sprint, which is also increased in duration, you're gonna have an absolutely uncontrollable invulnerable machine of death. Please, revert the changes on Unstoppable, nerf it back to 10-20% DR, reduce the duration of sprint. Force GWF to chose between being unkillable and one-shot-wonders.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
Devs, please, stop listening to all this QQ, it will end up in creating another imba class people will cry about for another half a year. Right now GWF is a god mode, not HR. HR is just an annoyance like perma TR, they cannot burst down any opponent while surviving hard CC and damage. Once HR is CC'd, he's dead. Once TR is CC'd, he's dead. GWF is getting damage without need to have offensive stats. Free crit, free arp, free +40% damage plus trample the fallen or destroyer - pick whatever you want while being super tanky. After the update, if you decide to roll out CC immunity + DR sprint, which is also increased in duration, you're gonna have an absolutely uncontrollable invulnerable machine of death. Please, revert the changes on Unstoppable, nerf it back to 10-20% DR, reduce the duration of sprint. Force GWF to chose between being unkillable and one-shot-wonders.
You don't run a gwf do you. Without some offensive stats you do not get any damage worth speaking of as it is now. You are factually wrong with how gearing a gwf works. Yes some nerfing was / is needed but adding a bunch of hyperbole doesn't help the feed back.
Sents are still going to have real high dr with unstoppable that is true. However if they kept it at 10-20% destroyers would have a hard time in pve. 15-30 is the only workable comprimise.
Devs, please, stop listening to all this QQ, it will end up in creating another imba class people will cry about for another half a year. Right now GWF is a god mode, not HR. HR is just an annoyance like perma TR, they cannot burst down any opponent while surviving hard CC and damage. Once HR is CC'd, he's dead. Once TR is CC'd, he's dead. GWF is getting damage without need to have offensive stats. Free crit, free arp, free +40% damage plus trample the fallen or destroyer - pick whatever you want while being super tanky. After the update, if you decide to roll out CC immunity + DR sprint, which is also increased in duration, you're gonna have an absolutely uncontrollable invulnerable machine of death. Please, revert the changes on Unstoppable, nerf it back to 10-20% DR, reduce the duration of sprint. Force GWF to chose between being unkillable and one-shot-wonders.
you are one of the cretins in here...
if gwf go sentinel paragon they'll have 2,5k power at most , if they go destroyer paragon they'll have 4k power + 50% damage bonus(talkin about pvp geared), what trample of the falled , what destroyer you mumbling there? people always played in pvp with bravery/weapon master and in pve weaponmaster/tremple of the fallen , but there are still people who doesn't understand... even if i have over 80% CC resist, i'll still get CCed. i wonder how do you get your stupid conclusion from..
@syn, you are prettystupid ain't you ? most of them are whiners, dont come here and start a chain of hatred cause you dont resolve anythin .. leave this thread alone god dam it, tired of answering and gettin my post deleted cuz i need to talk some sense into some of you
Devs, please, stop listening to all this QQ, it will end up in creating another imba class people will cry about for another half a year. Right now GWF is a god mode, not HR. HR is just an annoyance like perma TR, they cannot burst down any opponent while surviving hard CC and damage. Once HR is CC'd, he's dead. Once TR is CC'd, he's dead. GWF is getting damage without need to have offensive stats. Free crit, free arp, free +40% damage plus trample the fallen or destroyer - pick whatever you want while being super tanky. After the update, if you decide to roll out CC immunity + DR sprint, which is also increased in duration, you're gonna have an absolutely uncontrollable invulnerable machine of death. Please, revert the changes on Unstoppable, nerf it back to 10-20% DR, reduce the duration of sprint. Force GWF to chose between being unkillable and one-shot-wonders.
DC player masking a troll post as feedback ^
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Look at the posters above and decide if you wanna listen to them.
I played GWF since beta, when he was a piece of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. I played him as sentinel regen tenebrous tank after Module 1, then Iron Vanguard sentinel regen after Module 2, an even after Tenacity update I still played GWF. But now, if I played GWF, I'd show no self respect.
All these people want is to PWN!!11, they don't see anything from the perspective of invulnerable truck mashing players into the dirt and they won't be happy until they have all the power they're given with Iron Vanguard update.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
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reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Look at the posters above and decide if you wanna listen to them.
I played GWF since beta, when he was a piece of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. I played him as sentinel regen tenebrous tank after Module 1, then Iron Vanguard sentinel regen after Module 2, an even after Tenacity update I still played GWF. But now, if I played GWF, I'd show no self respect.
All these people want is to PWN!!11, they don't see anything from the perspective of invulnerable truck mashing players into the dirt and they won't be happy until they have all the power they're given with Iron Vanguard update.
You clearly do not know what you're talking about. For how much you claim to have played GWF since beta (where a good number of us including myself also have) You've already been proven factually wrong.
At current live, GWF's already "PWN" cause of thier CC chain that is garranteed to follow through an entire rotation. Without that, GWF's are not that bad to handle against at all. As a fighter they require a decent DR because they will take ALL hits given to them from any number of opponents as both fighters do not have a dodge so they must take all hits aimed and given to them. To mitigate that, the fighters need a way to have a raised DR in combat. Sentinels have much higher DR and more often opposed to a Destroyer. They already have thier prones taken away, So they cannot do the garranteed CC chain that they used to do (that only became available with the intro of Iron Vanguard) and can dodge or break away from thier CC with immunities or CC resists.
Look at the posters above and decide if you wanna listen to them.
I played GWF since beta, when he was a piece of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. I played him as sentinel regen tenebrous tank after Module 1, then Iron Vanguard sentinel regen after Module 2, an even after Tenacity update I still played GWF. But now, if I played GWF, I'd show no self respect.
All these people want is to PWN!!11, they don't see anything from the perspective of invulnerable truck mashing players into the dirt and they won't be happy until they have all the power they're given with Iron Vanguard update.
So it is OK to play a class while its clearly underpowered but if it gets a power-up and suddenly becomes very viable its dishonourable to play it ? Is that it ? I also played a GWF since beta and stuck with him thru ups and downs not because he was weak or strong but because his overall look and feel was appealing to me ( Guts from Berserk anyone ? ). The GWF is my class of choice with the GF coming in second as my alt. Also its about time this nonsense sprouting stops. The class itself ( any class for that matter ) is nothing, when a certain player picks it, plays it, upgrades its gear to 16-17 and beyond, then it becomes scary in PVP, then PVE becomes a joke. Not every GWF player out there has rank8+ and Greater/Perfect enchants. There are plenty of GWFs who rely on the class feature to actually play. In PVP people are usually killed by 2-3 enemies NOT by a single GWF in a one on one combat. I can count the times Ive fallen to a single player ( regardless of class ) on the fingers of my hands and I've been in hundreds if not thousands of matches. So enough already, please
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Took the time to search some of my posts in official feedback thread about module 3 GWF changes here, here and here. Oh, I was not asking for nerfs! Surprisingly?
You only look as a 1 vs many GWF, that's getting unloaded with all possible kinds of damage at a time without any possibility to survive. Dodge is nothing in comparison to spammable invulnerability, but it was not a problem when GWF couldn't deal 10k Takedowns and 20k IBSs, Roar wasn't a problem when it dealt 1k damage with 12 sec CD. They turned GWF into ultimately perfect class with the best defense, offense and CC in the game.
Lost CC chains? And GWF is the only class with CC in the game always fighting 1vs10? Yes, GWF won't be able to faceroll anymore, yes, they'll need the Astral Shield and Hollowed Ground to stay in red in PvE, but isn't it a purpose of MMO to cooperate, elaborate and supplement other's weaknesses? Not a class should be able to have everything at once.
It's a long time until the Module 4 goes live, and your continuous QQ will probably (likely) end up in making another god mode.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
Took the time to search some of my posts in official feedback thread about module 3 GWF changes here, here and here. Oh, I was not asking for nerfs! Surprisingly?
You only look as a 1 vs many GWF, that's getting unloaded with all possible kinds of damage at a time without any possibility to survive. Dodge is nothing in comparison to spammable invulnerability, but it was not a problem when GWF couldn't deal 10k Takedowns and 20k IBSs, Roar wasn't a problem when it dealt 1k damage with 12 sec CD. They turned GWF into ultimately perfect class with the best defense, offense and CC in the game.
Lost CC chains? And GWF is the only class with CC in the game always fighting 1vs10? Yes, GWF won't be able to faceroll anymore, yes, they'll need the Astral Shield and Hollowed Ground to stay in red in PvE, but isn't it a purpose of MMO to cooperate, elaborate and supplement other's weaknesses? Not a class should be able to have everything at once.
It's a long time until the Module 4 goes live, and your continuous QQ will probably (likely) end up in making another god mode.
the thing is MMO is not whole party rely on coperation of others , leveling from 1-60 , 80% of which is done solo , 90% of players solo dailys , and in PVP its balance between party and solo plays but solo plays make the most part of it .
u r asking to make 1 class week in solo plays while many other class remains OP(CW , HR , TR, DC) in comparison to this class , the term OP comes when u cant do anything against opposite player but u mainly forgot the fact why GWF is considered OP.
the OP is due to fact of misbalance in PVP and not GWF is OP, u see many GWF players playing PVP so u consider GWF OP , but GWF is optimal choce of many NW players cause of its versability in all direction , GWF is jack of all trades and master of none.
when TR got nerfed many players left game and some of them choose to play GWF due to new IV path , and due to introduction of IV path every1 choose to play GWF as PVP toon .
OP is due to misbalance in PVP q and not cause class is OP , true roar is bugged but u keep on crying GWF is op , but what u detest the most is GWF standing in 1 place , without doing anything and attacking , while all other class have to move around .
since GWF is able to that u think its OP , but GWF is made it like that .
we need prones without that we cant survive in PVP.
Took the time to search some of my posts in official feedback thread about module 3 GWF changes here, here and here. Oh, I was not asking for nerfs! Surprisingly?
You only look as a 1 vs many GWF, that's getting unloaded with all possible kinds of damage at a time without any possibility to survive. Dodge is nothing in comparison to spammable invulnerability, but it was not a problem when GWF couldn't deal 10k Takedowns and 20k IBSs, Roar wasn't a problem when it dealt 1k damage with 12 sec CD. They turned GWF into ultimately perfect class with the best defense, offense and CC in the game.
Lost CC chains? And GWF is the only class with CC in the game always fighting 1vs10? Yes, GWF won't be able to faceroll anymore, yes, they'll need the Astral Shield and Hollowed Ground to stay in red in PvE, but isn't it a purpose of MMO to cooperate, elaborate and supplement other's weaknesses? Not a class should be able to have everything at once.
It's a long time until the Module 4 goes live, and your continuous QQ will probably (likely) end up in making another god mode.
Well I for one, treat the CC chain as already broken. Those who enjoy it should take the time and enjoy the heck out of it before mod 4. I'd say the combined loss of TR/20% DR/prones is already quite a nerf to the PVP GWF dont you think so ? The loss of Rush alone is huge
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Well I for one, treat the CC chain as already broken. Those who enjoy it should take the time and enjoy the heck out of it before mod 4. I'd say the combined loss of TR/20% DR/prones is already quite a nerf to the PVP GWF dont you think so ? The loss of Rush alone is huge
TR was providing too much mobility for GWFs. I said that path merging was fail before module 2 went live.
All this balancing post module 3 (and including module 3) is a huge fail, because right now there's only one viable overbuffed tree, but they're trying to balance the whole class and it's entire mechanics because of that 1 overbuffed tree. Those Destroyer buffs shouldn't had happened in the first place. But if we're gonna live with 'em, those nerf should be implemented.
BTW, the only time when GWFs were underpowered is before module 1.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
Devs, please, stop listening to all this QQ, it will end up in creating another imba class people will cry about for another half a year. Right now GWF is a god mode, not HR. HR is just an annoyance like perma TR, they cannot burst down any opponent while surviving hard CC and damage. Once HR is CC'd, he's dead. Once TR is CC'd, he's dead. GWF is getting damage without need to have offensive stats. Free crit, free arp, free +40% damage plus trample the fallen or destroyer - pick whatever you want while being super tanky. After the update, if you decide to roll out CC immunity + DR sprint, which is also increased in duration, you're gonna have an absolutely uncontrollable invulnerable machine of death. Please, revert the changes on Unstoppable, nerf it back to 10-20% DR, reduce the duration of sprint. Force GWF to chose between being unkillable and one-shot-wonders.
Seriously dude, for someone that claims they play a gwf you seem to know very little...
I for one have arguable one of the better gwfs in the game but there are many HRs that i cannot kill in one rotation and now that they removed prones itll definitely be impossible.
These nerfs alone actually put gwf down from arguably #2 class in pvp to #4. GFs are just as strong now, HR and TR will just laugh at GWFs now... So dont say they needed more nerfs. Ive already detailed out whybthey were OP and how to change it but DEVs didnt listen. The problem was NOT prones or Unstoppable DR... But because of whiners thats what they nerf.
Seriously dude, for someone that claims they play a gwf you seem to know very little...
I for one have arguable one of the better gwfs in the game but there are many HRs that i cannot kill in one rotation and now that they removed prones itll definitely be impossible.
These nerfs alone actually put gwf down from arguably #2 class in pvp to #4. GFs are just as strong now, HR and TR will just laugh at GWFs now... So dont say they needed more nerfs. Ive already detailed out whybthey were OP and how to change it but DEVs didnt listen. The problem was NOT prones or Unstoppable DR... But because of whiners thats what they nerf.
main problem was lack of HD on unsto recovery and broken roar with 8sec cd followed by 7s takedown the Destro tankiness came from hes broken CCs and thats all
just a fix to roar and hd on unsto recovery would make GWF perfectly balanced class.
Seriously dude, for someone that claims they play a gwf you seem to know very little...
I for one have arguable one of the better gwfs in the game but there are many HRs that i cannot kill in one rotation and now that they removed prones itll definitely be impossible.
These nerfs alone actually put gwf down from arguably #2 class in pvp to #4. GFs are just as strong now, HR and TR will just laugh at GWFs now... So dont say they needed more nerfs. Ive already detailed out whybthey were OP and how to change it but DEVs didnt listen. The problem was NOT prones or Unstoppable DR... But because of whiners thats what they nerf.
They decided to nerf GWF because of endless whine before module 3. And because of the same whine but from GWF players they overbuffed them to "compensate". Now they nerf them because people whine they OP. And because of the same whine but from GWF players they implement some "adjustments", which will likely end up in imbalance, but not in their CC, not in their damage, but in their CC immunity and defense.
I'm NOT asking for further nerfs, I'm asking YOU to stop whine till the devs overbuff GWFs once again.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
Comments
Either I cant calculate or I missed a Dev post. How is unstoppable back to live values.
On a sidenote, I dont agree with GF QQ 'we are bad so make GWF as bad, so I dont have to cry alone', but I can somehow understand it. BUT a HR QQ ing about OP GWFs in Mod 4 has to be a joke, right?
No! we do not want GWf to be bad at all... We want a DPS specced GWF to be an offensive GOD, but not have the damage mitigation survivability. We don't ask for GWf to be a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> class like us, we ask for the GWF to NOT have all out tools but better forms of them!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Thanks for the update. What am about to write next is for any non-GWF player who comes here to troll ( yes, troll because that is what you are doing fellow players. A person who only experiences the GWF from the wrong end of the sword is not really suited to give feedback thanks )
Currently on LIVE even highly geared GWFs do not and I repeat do not eat competent CWs and HRs alive like many people would want you to believe. Even with unlimited gap closer ( TR ) even with 50% DR in Unstop people who know what they are doing can and will dodge and can and will kill you. Mod 4 will bring a massive nerf to the IV GWF, honestly the only reason I use IV is because of TR. I dont care for FLS. So keep in mind that in MOD 4 GWFs wont be able to catch the people that we currently have trouble catching and dont even get me started on the DCs. Currently we have DCs on LIVE who can dodge/heal on a node for a very long time - its crazy. Picture that without prones and without rush and you get a stamina-less GWF who cant counter a DC at all. Sure this is an extreme example but you get the point. And in case you didnt get the point, here it is - GWFs are not as OP on LIVE as many people claim them to be. You can only say a class is OP or broken once you've played it to a certain GS level and have countless pvp fights under your virtual belt..
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
The Unstoppable DR makes it boring to play again. At least with smaller DR increase I had to think about what I was doing, now it's back to thoughtless unkillable spam.
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It's also appreciated for Destroyer DWF's in PvP, but GWF's that can get 45% DR and 20% DR from tenacity could still hit the 80% DR cap at 50% determination. That's only a concern for very high end pvp, since i've got a 17k GWF Iron Vanguard Destroyer that would cap out at about 77% at 50%. But most GWF's with PvP gear would be able to hit the 80% DR cap at 100% determination, so 15-30% might be too much for PvP.
CW: Rodrant Turnbul
TR: Rodran
DC: Rodrat
GWF: ROARdrant TurnBRAWL
Other GWF: Shieldrant
HR: Bowdrant
SW: Wardrant Turnlock (my main!)
OP: Paladrant (on Preview!)
players of this forum try to reverse the order of things, either by innocence, whether by treachery. The most fragile class, cw, dont need a gf AND IS THE BEST FOR PROTECT THE PARTY (+ dps).
Why then should the gwf need a gf?
I'm waiting for the moment when the defensive quality of gwf have some logistic function for the party. ALL thedangerous enemies, has melee / aoe. 15-30 , in this scenario, is a gross nerf (yes, I changed my mind).
25-50 + sm buffs.
and you know what? revert iv changes too. one thing is to make sensibile changes in the iv (take x, give y) another thing is a unilateral nerf just to calm angry players. no more, kakarot.
Thats a good point. Maybe the best thing to do is make the pvp unstoppable do 5-10% and pve unstoppable do 15-30%. It is pretty easy to hit DR cap as GWF.
Well not all GWF's are built that way. on live my GWF DR is capped at about 66% with a full unstoppable. And only has about 14% tenacity.
All the fighters however can easily cap thier DR at times from the changes on preview. Not to mention with all the debuffs going around. Not all the GFs and GWF's will be capped at 80% DR everytime in addition, this DR is temporary for both fighters. With the new unstoppable, Sentinels also wont hit for so little anymore, they can focus on more offensive stats now while having the default defenses they need.
those guys who havent ever stepped in PVP dont comment about PVP.
Add 99% DR and CC immunity to sprint (and double the speed) for a save escape (not sure if 99% is sufficient, probable half GWFs die when try to escape with the remain 1%, maybe is better 100% DR and cc immunity).
Add also a IQ test for create GWF toons and not permit at ppl with 100+ IQ to use GWFs (all guys in that have post in this thread are safe and under the bar, so no problem for they GWFs).
Add perma unstoppable at the class.. press the tab key every 8 seconds is hard and need some skills with the fingers.
Is ok ask super buffs for a clown class, but please avoid ask nerfs for other classes (in HRs thread 4/5 of the posts are from GWFs asking nerfs, same but in lesser extend in the CW thread).
People like this should not be allowed to post. If you dont know how tenacity even works then you should not be posting ignorance. Tencity is multiplicative and Doesnt add like youve suggested here.
To get 45% dr you have to gear 100% defensively with sent gear giving up offensive stats, alit of stats...
At 45% DR and 20% tenacity you DONT have 65% dr. Tenacity is seperate and doesnt count towards the cap.
1000 dmg comes in. You mitigate 45%(450) leaving 550 dmg. THEN yenacity is applied at 20%(110) leaving 440 damage.
So 45% dr + 20% tenacity is only an equivalent of 56% DR... But at 50% unstoppable you only get 15%+base 45%.
So THIS means:
1000 comes in. 65% mitigated(650) leaving 350 which THEN is mitigated by tenacity another 20%(70) leaving you at 280 damage received.
What does that mean?
45%DR TANK geared gwf + unstoppable + 20% tenacity only ais an equivalent 72% DR... Oh and btw most people in pvp stack 25%+ ARP so.... Do the math and learn how things work before posting ignorance.
funny deja vu...
I do appreciate knowing this now, but I don't appreciate the snark that came with it. This is how feedback threads get derailed with arguments that end up getting kicked to the discussion thread.
CW: Rodrant Turnbul
TR: Rodran
DC: Rodrat
GWF: ROARdrant TurnBRAWL
Other GWF: Shieldrant
HR: Bowdrant
SW: Wardrant Turnlock (my main!)
OP: Paladrant (on Preview!)
wrong calculation... its true that for example with 20% tenacity a overall indication that with 45% DR/0.80 = about 56% dmg reduction, but is wrong... for example with 80% DR and 25% tenacity if one use the multiplicative formula is 100% damage riduction (wrong).
Better simple say that tenacity is another mitigation layer.
Devs, please, stop listening to all this QQ, it will end up in creating another imba class people will cry about for another half a year. Right now GWF is a god mode, not HR. HR is just an annoyance like perma TR, they cannot burst down any opponent while surviving hard CC and damage. Once HR is CC'd, he's dead. Once TR is CC'd, he's dead. GWF is getting damage without need to have offensive stats. Free crit, free arp, free +40% damage plus trample the fallen or destroyer - pick whatever you want while being super tanky. After the update, if you decide to roll out CC immunity + DR sprint, which is also increased in duration, you're gonna have an absolutely uncontrollable invulnerable machine of death. Please, revert the changes on Unstoppable, nerf it back to 10-20% DR, reduce the duration of sprint. Force GWF to chose between being unkillable and one-shot-wonders.
You don't run a gwf do you. Without some offensive stats you do not get any damage worth speaking of as it is now. You are factually wrong with how gearing a gwf works. Yes some nerfing was / is needed but adding a bunch of hyperbole doesn't help the feed back.
Sents are still going to have real high dr with unstoppable that is true. However if they kept it at 10-20% destroyers would have a hard time in pve. 15-30 is the only workable comprimise.
if gwf go sentinel paragon they'll have 2,5k power at most , if they go destroyer paragon they'll have 4k power + 50% damage bonus(talkin about pvp geared), what trample of the falled , what destroyer you mumbling there? people always played in pvp with bravery/weapon master and in pve weaponmaster/tremple of the fallen , but there are still people who doesn't understand... even if i have over 80% CC resist, i'll still get CCed. i wonder how do you get your stupid conclusion from..
@syn, you are prettystupid ain't you ? most of them are whiners, dont come here and start a chain of hatred cause you dont resolve anythin .. leave this thread alone god dam it, tired of answering and gettin my post deleted cuz i need to talk some sense into some of you
DC player masking a troll post as feedback ^
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Look at the posters above and decide if you wanna listen to them.
I played GWF since beta, when he was a piece of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. I played him as sentinel regen tenebrous tank after Module 1, then Iron Vanguard sentinel regen after Module 2, an even after Tenacity update I still played GWF. But now, if I played GWF, I'd show no self respect.
All these people want is to PWN!!11, they don't see anything from the perspective of invulnerable truck mashing players into the dirt and they won't be happy until they have all the power they're given with Iron Vanguard update.
You clearly do not know what you're talking about. For how much you claim to have played GWF since beta (where a good number of us including myself also have) You've already been proven factually wrong.
At current live, GWF's already "PWN" cause of thier CC chain that is garranteed to follow through an entire rotation. Without that, GWF's are not that bad to handle against at all. As a fighter they require a decent DR because they will take ALL hits given to them from any number of opponents as both fighters do not have a dodge so they must take all hits aimed and given to them. To mitigate that, the fighters need a way to have a raised DR in combat. Sentinels have much higher DR and more often opposed to a Destroyer. They already have thier prones taken away, So they cannot do the garranteed CC chain that they used to do (that only became available with the intro of Iron Vanguard) and can dodge or break away from thier CC with immunities or CC resists.
So it is OK to play a class while its clearly underpowered but if it gets a power-up and suddenly becomes very viable its dishonourable to play it ? Is that it ? I also played a GWF since beta and stuck with him thru ups and downs not because he was weak or strong but because his overall look and feel was appealing to me ( Guts from Berserk anyone ? ). The GWF is my class of choice with the GF coming in second as my alt. Also its about time this nonsense sprouting stops. The class itself ( any class for that matter ) is nothing, when a certain player picks it, plays it, upgrades its gear to 16-17 and beyond, then it becomes scary in PVP, then PVE becomes a joke. Not every GWF player out there has rank8+ and Greater/Perfect enchants. There are plenty of GWFs who rely on the class feature to actually play. In PVP people are usually killed by 2-3 enemies NOT by a single GWF in a one on one combat. I can count the times Ive fallen to a single player ( regardless of class ) on the fingers of my hands and I've been in hundreds if not thousands of matches. So enough already, please
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
You only look as a 1 vs many GWF, that's getting unloaded with all possible kinds of damage at a time without any possibility to survive. Dodge is nothing in comparison to spammable invulnerability, but it was not a problem when GWF couldn't deal 10k Takedowns and 20k IBSs, Roar wasn't a problem when it dealt 1k damage with 12 sec CD. They turned GWF into ultimately perfect class with the best defense, offense and CC in the game.
Lost CC chains? And GWF is the only class with CC in the game always fighting 1vs10? Yes, GWF won't be able to faceroll anymore, yes, they'll need the Astral Shield and Hollowed Ground to stay in red in PvE, but isn't it a purpose of MMO to cooperate, elaborate and supplement other's weaknesses? Not a class should be able to have everything at once.
It's a long time until the Module 4 goes live, and your continuous QQ will probably (likely) end up in making another god mode.
the thing is MMO is not whole party rely on coperation of others , leveling from 1-60 , 80% of which is done solo , 90% of players solo dailys , and in PVP its balance between party and solo plays but solo plays make the most part of it .
u r asking to make 1 class week in solo plays while many other class remains OP(CW , HR , TR, DC) in comparison to this class , the term OP comes when u cant do anything against opposite player but u mainly forgot the fact why GWF is considered OP.
the OP is due to fact of misbalance in PVP and not GWF is OP, u see many GWF players playing PVP so u consider GWF OP , but GWF is optimal choce of many NW players cause of its versability in all direction , GWF is jack of all trades and master of none.
when TR got nerfed many players left game and some of them choose to play GWF due to new IV path , and due to introduction of IV path every1 choose to play GWF as PVP toon .
OP is due to misbalance in PVP q and not cause class is OP , true roar is bugged but u keep on crying GWF is op , but what u detest the most is GWF standing in 1 place , without doing anything and attacking , while all other class have to move around .
since GWF is able to that u think its OP , but GWF is made it like that .
we need prones without that we cant survive in PVP.
Well I for one, treat the CC chain as already broken. Those who enjoy it should take the time and enjoy the heck out of it before mod 4. I'd say the combined loss of TR/20% DR/prones is already quite a nerf to the PVP GWF dont you think so ? The loss of Rush alone is huge
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
TR was providing too much mobility for GWFs. I said that path merging was fail before module 2 went live.
All this balancing post module 3 (and including module 3) is a huge fail, because right now there's only one viable overbuffed tree, but they're trying to balance the whole class and it's entire mechanics because of that 1 overbuffed tree. Those Destroyer buffs shouldn't had happened in the first place. But if we're gonna live with 'em, those nerf should be implemented.
BTW, the only time when GWFs were underpowered is before module 1.
Seriously dude, for someone that claims they play a gwf you seem to know very little...
I for one have arguable one of the better gwfs in the game but there are many HRs that i cannot kill in one rotation and now that they removed prones itll definitely be impossible.
These nerfs alone actually put gwf down from arguably #2 class in pvp to #4. GFs are just as strong now, HR and TR will just laugh at GWFs now... So dont say they needed more nerfs. Ive already detailed out whybthey were OP and how to change it but DEVs didnt listen. The problem was NOT prones or Unstoppable DR... But because of whiners thats what they nerf.
main problem was lack of HD on unsto recovery and broken roar with 8sec cd followed by 7s takedown the Destro tankiness came from hes broken CCs and thats all
just a fix to roar and hd on unsto recovery would make GWF perfectly balanced class.
They decided to nerf GWF because of endless whine before module 3. And because of the same whine but from GWF players they overbuffed them to "compensate". Now they nerf them because people whine they OP. And because of the same whine but from GWF players they implement some "adjustments", which will likely end up in imbalance, but not in their CC, not in their damage, but in their CC immunity and defense.
I'm NOT asking for further nerfs, I'm asking YOU to stop whine till the devs overbuff GWFs once again.