...
Romon, the reason GFs sometimes struggle is not a problem with the GF class necessarily, but with how the players are obviously using it. There are a lot of GFs that do not have Armor Specialization specced. As this feat is not indicated on the character sheet, this causes a lot of players to believe that their Damage Resistance (DR) of 45% without it, is comparable with that of a player that has specced into it with a similarly listed 45% DR. When a GF blocks, the damage their Block takes is diminished by their DR first. Hence, in the previous example, the extra 6.75% DR does make a large amount of difference, particularly when the GF also takes boons, feats and stats (i.e. from artifacts) that increase, assist or benefit guarding / blocking.
...
As you yourself have indicated, the problem is not with the class but with your spec. As a Conqueror spec it is obvious that you are not specced to take large amounts of damage. The fact you are a DPS spec trying to tank and having to use Block / Guard means your character is pretty much dead weight for the party i.e. you are now not doing the damage you have spent so much speccing into and gearing into (which is pretty much all your spec is even half decent for) and you don't have the survivability you would have otherwise with such low DPS. Essentially, your wasted points leave your character to be 'less' than what they otherwise would be under any other build.
After many hours of testing and comparing, I can say for sure - besides your fine theorycraftig - that the block gets broken very (I would say: too) easily in the stronger versions of the heroic encounters in Icewind Dale (and not only there alone). I already have Armour Specialisation and Shield Defence (using a Tactician tree) and maybe the block lasts longer but this longer consists of mere seconds at best and is not able to give the Guardian Fighter any significant survivability enabling her to endure the attacks of many enemies at once.
Tanking is possible under harsh circumstances and with great risks at times making a Guardian Fighter easily somewhat unreliable. I managed to survive most of the time but the handling of this class is outright awful compared to the other classes I played so far and one of the important factors was that I had no lag or bucking of the picture most of the time.
Add one-handed hammers to the game for GFs to use.
Convert GF into Warden. All former GFs get a mandatory respec, including a re-roll of initial Ability Points.
Rebalance Iron Vanguard powers and feats specifically for GWF. Warden gets two unique new Paragons. Maybe Bloodwrath Guardian (though the transformation ability might be tricky) and Horned Champion or First Hunter.
I like that!
Or maybe give GF a Paladin Paragon, become a group support class that gives buffs and minor heals.
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
I want to say my opinion concerning the "tankiness" of defender/tactician against conqueror's.
There is not a difference at all.At all.or to be more exact there is Shield defence feat.Which gives 5AC.Do you know how much 5 Ac is worth?
.....2,5% Dr.That's **** right.A fully specced defender will have just 2,5% more DR.
Armor specialization is common for both paths.it is early feat and conq has access to it.
check the diefferences at nw calc.None serious differentation to be found.Concerning tankiness. http://nwcalc.com/gf
Conclusion:Who ever says that the problem of Gfs are player problems by using t and not class design problems
1)obviously does not know how AC works.
2)Obviously does not pug.he rolls runs with his overgeared guild and thinks that because his 2 13-15gs CW buddies clean the mobs at 0 time ,he think he "tanks"
3)obviously he has a second toon alt.By 90% i am sure it is a japanese manga looking two handed swordman style..How we call this/?...e....GWf!!
can some defender please post me a video of him tanking the adds at Hrimmir FH?Vt can come later.we can start from the easy ones:FH.
thanks.
All "squishy" conqs wait for the "tanky" defs to show us how to tank and how their super difference of 2,5%DR helps them.
^^^
I have met high geared defenders in pvp.They can kill nothing while they last 2-3 secs longer.great difference.
I want to say my opinion concerning the "tankiness" of defender/tactician against conqueror's.
There is not a difference at all.At all.or to be more exact there is Shield defence feat.Which gives 5AC.Do you know how much 5 Ac is worth?
.....2,5% Dr.That's **** right.A fully specced defender will have just 2,5% more DR.
Armor specialization is common for both paths.it is early feat and conq has access to it.
check the diefferences at nw calc.None serious differentation to be found.Concerning tankiness. http://nwcalc.com/gf
Conclusion:Who ever says that the problem of Gfs are player problems by using t and not class design problems
1)obviously does not know how AC works.
2)Obviously does not pug.he rolls runs with his overgeared guild and thinks that because his 2 13-15gs CW buddies clean the mobs at 0 time ,he think he "tanks"
3)obviously he has a second toon alt.By 90% i am sure it is a japanese manga looking two handed swordman style..How we call this/?...e....GWf!!
can some defender please post me a video of him tanking the adds at Hrimmir FH?Vt can come later.we can start from the easy ones:FH.
thanks.
All "squishy" conqs wait for the "tanky" defs to show us how to tank and how their super difference of 2,5%DR helps them.
^^^
I have met high geared defenders in pvp.They can kill nothing while they last 2-3 secs longer.great difference.
Right on my man! I met a PUG GF on the opposing team last night, I could tell he was specced TANK MODE in the match as he hit me for pitiful damage even more pitiful then normal. He only mitigated maybe an extra 5% damage but only hurt 2 bars of my health before I killed him! I asked him after in a PM, he said he was tank spec with 2100 power...
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
That was a lot of rant for the 5 AC you get to pick up anyway with the Conquerer tree (since you have 10 left over).
I was going to post last night that in and of themselves there is not a huge difference between protector and conqueror. It is that those choices are usually correlated with very different gear choices, and by the time you get done stacking up all those differences you get a net difference that is appreciable. The key features of the protector is the increase hate from at-wills while shielding (+15%), the bonus to shield strength,the hate generation that comes with debuffing from the capstone, and the 10% reduction of damage to everyone not just you, but individually they are not really that big. You might say, well do Conquerer then, you know I did, and this is when I realized that unless you spec power there isn't all that much to gain from that capstone either! It only gets strong when you go deep on power. If you are just going to dabble power it isn't a big deal.
I haven't specced it, but I would guess the one shot wonder for individual tankiness is probably Tactician. In particularly one of the things I was thinking about today is their capstone keeps generating AP while they are getting CCd. While you are CCd as a GF you can't guard, since you can't guard your AP generation is HAMSTER, and you get combo'd and when you hit the ground or stand up you are no more closer to dailying your way out of it then when the combo started. Tactician would appear to give up a fair bit of sustain tankiness in exchange for the ability to play out of mistakes. I think I am going to play around with my current build another week and then give that a go. The reason I haven't in the past is the bonus guarding and hate generation while guarding and the unselfish 10% damage reduction for everyone, all seem good if you are thinking about the group, and the strongest thing you get the group in Tactician, that you can't also pick up from your left over 10 points getting Protector, is the 5% damage from Into the Fray.
In particular when I realized this me and a random cleric were two manning the troll group version of Chilltooth Invasion. The trolls were staggering AEs and this fight was taking forever with just the two of us, so occasionally they would start this 2 and 3 combo chain of CC where I would go flying way into the air. I was thinking man this whole time I am flying around doing nothing, I could be generating AP on tactician to give me immunity when I hit the ground. Instead I would hit the ground deftly walk out of the next red and try to get my shield up to finish my AP to get my immunity to really get some work done with all these AEs CCs going on.
Which brings me to what I came here to post about. I don't PvP in this game, but I do PvP the frack out of some MOBAs, and it seems to me that in PvE the long pre-effect interuptable animations on Dailies and Encounters are punitive and annoying and not well tuned for a weak class that needs to hold shift. I get the animation on at-will. It is the resource cost of doing the action. Having huge animations on dailies that must complete is so much of the problem. It just makes everything so much harder, and for what really?
They should do these two things before getting caught up in sweeping retunes:
Dailies: Instant Effect. You can cancel the animations.
Encounters: Effect at 1/4th or 1/5th the animation. Can cancel after that point.
They do that and the GF would be so much easier to play effectively.
0
silverquickMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
I want to say my opinion concerning the "tankiness" of defender/tactician against conqueror's.
There is not a difference at all.At all.or to be more exact there is Shield defence feat.Which gives 5AC.Do you know how much 5 Ac is worth?
.....2,5% Dr.That's **** right.A fully specced defender will have just 2,5% more DR.
I agree,
In real D&D a +5 armor class more is a 25% less chance to be hit... not a 2.5% more. I grant you the games work differently... but... you get the point here...
On a 1d20 your armor class is how easy you are to hit. Each 1 point rolled on a 20 sided dice is 5%. So if you've got +5 more AC you literally get hit 25% less.
Armor class in this game is... not very well represented.
+5 AC is ... not even close to what it should represent even going by their system.
Conclusion:Who ever says that the problem of Gfs are player problems by using t and not class design problems
1)obviously does not know how AC works.
2)Obviously does not pug.he rolls runs with his overgeared guild and thinks that because his 2 13-15gs CW buddies clean the mobs at 0 time ,he think he "tanks"
3)obviously he has a second toon alt.By 90% i am sure it is a japanese manga looking two handed swordman style..How we call this/?...e....GWf!!
While admittedly that might be a little overly nasty...
I do believe that to be accurate to a point.
Honestly the real reason the CWF meta exists (while it CAN be about speed running) its just as much to do with the deficiencies in the GF class not "poor players" or even players looking for an "Easy" run.
When you're playing a CW.... and you're in all these mass mobs.... if the only thing there is a GF, you're pretty much hosed, and are going to have to solo a lot of them. That is just the fact of the matter. He cannot keep them off you. So... the solution is to bring another CW, that way between the two of you, at the very least you can both focus on the mobs, each with your 3 second stuns alternating and your quick 1 second prones.
So it takes 2-3 CWs to make up for that shortcoming. Or just get rid of the GF entirely and grab a couple of GWFs and we can have a prone/stun fest between us all and I don't have to worry about ever soloing mobs. And they're better on Single Target mobs than I am they cover my weakness as a CW.
If I COULD count on a GF to maintain agro in a Mass Mob situation it wouldn't matter anymore and I COULD take other classes in the party as I know I'd be able to survive the thing and not be repeatedly wailed on the entire time.
I CAN count on the GF for smaller amount of Mobs and they can tank and hold a single boss mob like there's no tomorrow... BUT... all I ever have coming at me as a crapton of Adds.
We really need to look into the Mass Mob Agro control of the GF.
^^^
I have met high geared defenders in pvp.They can kill nothing while they last 2-3 secs longer.great difference.
I used to be one..... it was laughable how I hit. Yup I would last longer then I do now but at least now I feel I am actually contributing to the fights.
I would also be interested to see what a good GF is able (or supposed) to do in there. Apart from running in circles being chased by the mobs.
I have no video, but was able to once: you should try it with a Guardian Fighter on the Tactician tree and with the Swordsman paragon path; the Steel Defence passive gives a good advantage to Villain's Menace and the GF is better able to concentrate on Threat Generation. But as I have no proof, you do not need to believe me.
I'm glad your working on the GF I haven't played mine in ages and have been using him as leadership slave to generate AD which is all I will likely do until you get these "changes" implemented. I wish you guys gods speed - please don't make us wait too long. I really wanted a GF as my main or at least as one of my top 2-3 to played every day but they have never played like a "tank" to me and I quickly settled on the fact that this would be a played once in a blue moon class which after a few "balances" and changes then became - no longer played. I can't wait to be able to actually pull aggro and hold it without dying or running around like a little girl (please, please say this is what the changes will bring)!!
Many good suggestions have come from us GF players for the Devs, so if they ever want to solve the issue in praxis, they have just to look at these threads.
For me the most laughable (ironic) thing was, when i first entered a T1 dungeon, that nearly all of our life saving (doesn't really exist, no real healing ability, no real life steal) , ok or prolonging skills are directed to the front.
Now if we kite, where does the damage come from, yes from behind and since we are so slow, without a real good DC we have to consume far more potions to stay alive, while we get far less potions dropped by the system, than any other class (tried it out trough toons).
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Many good suggestions have come from us GF players for the Devs, so if they ever want to solve the issue in praxis, they have just to look at these threads.
For me the most laughable (ironic) thing was, when i first entered a T1 dungeon, that nearly all of our life saving (doesn't really exist, no real healing ability, no real life steal) , ok or prolonging skills are directed to the front.
Now if we kite, where does the damage come from, yes from behind and since we are so slow, without a real good DC we have to consume far more potions to stay alive, while we get far less potions dropped by the system, than any other class (tried it out trough toons).
Villains Menance and Fighters Recovery should be merged together, a poor mans Unstoppable.
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Villains Menance and Fighters Recovery should be merged together, a poor mans Unstoppable.
Fighters recovery is better than unstoppable survival wise my gf can heal 3-10k+ls with that with a single attack (depending on the attack) more especially if FR crits, poormans unstoppable my foot.
A sword master using it can become immune to damage and heal as it attacks for close to or more than they can hit so if its hp is low it can become immune and heal to full in 2 encounters IV can do this too but without the immunity.
i support and would love the idea; though I'm doubtful they'd do that as it means they would have to also make another daily to replace and may have to deal with balance ramifications.
(not insulting anything or attacking your views I'm just being realist)
An idea I had was to make all gf attacks "splash" aggro so your hit on one enemy shares the aggro with the nearby enemies based on the damage and aggro of the attack and other aggro generating feats, abilities, etc.
This would make moves like frontline surge, griffons wrath, wms, and many others allow and enforce grabbing of aggro; though it would probably take a while to code.
but this way you can keep the damage target cap on enforced threat where it is but have it generate more aggro to more enemies while other abilites also have the same effect thusly, making enforced threat not our only real way to gain this aggro while still keeping it our best option.
I would also suggest putting crit% on dexterity or strength my Tank GF only has a crit of 13% and thats only thanks to my stone without it; it is at 7% and that is only because all characters get a free 5% chance.
My conq has 24% but has the worst defenses because i have to use substandard gear to get that crit chance. My hr is more durable and hes full archer spec and gear.
Fighters recovery in pvp is a joke! You cannot block long enough for it to be useful, and you are easily knocked back, proned, or stunned for its duration making it useless! Meanwhile the GWF get to use Unstoppable 4 times in a row in a 100 second window!
EDIT: Now if fighters recovery converted incoing damage to hp whilst raising your DR then that would be useful. Right now you have to wait for the animation to finish hope your not interrupted and try and hit people with your silly damage!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
If i may have a word again, as my alt is a GWF, he can activate Unstoppable while in motion, while as the GFs nearly all skills have a long activation time or we must stand even still for a few sec, enough time to get killed or damaged so hard, that we will surely die after the next hit.
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Fighters recovery in pvp is a joke! You cannot block long enough for it to be useful, and you are easily knocked back, proned, or stunned for its duration making it useless! Meanwhile the GWF get to use Unstoppable 4 times in a row in a 100 second window!
EDIT: Now if fighters recovery converted incoing damage to hp whilst raising your DR then that would be useful. Right now you have to wait for the animation to finish hope your not interrupted and try and hit people with your silly damage!
Look, GF 101: If you use Knight's challenge and block 2-3 attacks you have full AP. 2x dmg = 2x AP. One does not cast FR in actual melee range in order to not get interrupted. Utilize FR at a certain distance, then lunging strike.
Look, GF 101: If you use Knight's challenge and block 2-3 attacks you have full AP. 2x dmg = 2x AP. One does not cast FR in actual melee range in order to not get interrupted. Utilize FR at a certain distance, then lunging strike.
Understandable, but not always possible. Do you pvp on your GF? If so you will now there is not much window of opportunity with all the CC coming at you and around you... I am not the greatest GF pvper by a loooooooong shot, but I know how to play!
The problem is mostly getting cced after you get FR off... Because you do no damage and get no healing.
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Understandable, but not always possible. Do you pvp on your GF? If so you will now there is not much window of opportunity with all the CC coming at you and around you... I am not the greatest GF pvper by a loooooooong shot, but I know how to play!
The problem is mostly getting cced after you get FR off... Because you do no damage and get no healing.
I used to, before the first ELO reset, i had a score of 1200 kills with 200 deaths. But currently i am focusing on getting better enchantments even though PVE wise, we do suck and it takes ages to farm something. Strangely i have 7 deaths from pvp even though i never attempted to participate, again.
---
Ah after FR actually is applied, i raise my shield for 1 second and then use lunging strike, sorry i forgot to mention that.
Yes, there are no other dps/burst options for us GF sadly, i mean none other than using mixed gear. Every set except the knight captain's and the lower tier version of it has the useless +300 +400 etc defense stat. On the other hand, this is also great because my total AD spent on my items (except gemmed exquisite shirt/pants) is below 30k, hehe.
---
Off topic, i also have a nice new signature This is from pve and with a lesser terror, but i think even in pvp this would be quite a big selfheal... even though, other "better" GF than myself have claimed the opposite before.
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Those will be your total deaths in the areas with open PvP.
PvE included? Because i died a few times in heroics.
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited June 2014
Yeah, it's tallying IWP/DV deaths for people who haven't PvPed at all, so you don't have to be flagged, just in an area where you could be. Undoubtedly not working as intended.
Yes, there are no other dps/burst options for us GF sadly, i mean none other than using mixed gear. Every set except the knight captain's and the lower tier version of it has the useless +300 +400 etc defense stat. On the other hand, this is also great because my total AD spent on my items (except gemmed exquisite shirt/pants) is below 30k, hehe.
---
Off topic, i also have a nice new signature This is from pve and with a lesser terror, but i think even in pvp this would be quite a big selfheal... even though, other "better" GF than myself have claimed the opposite before.
Yea! thats a crazy hit a rare one I am sure. However damage is mitigated better on players, then add in deflection, then add in tenacity and the damage is lowered more. So yea the amount you could hit a player in pvp would never hit that hard and then add in healing debuff in pvp.
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Yea! thats a crazy hit a rare one I am sure. However damage is mitigated better on players, then add in deflection, then add in tenacity and the damage is lowered more. So yea the amount you could hit a player in pvp would never hit that hard and then add in healing debuff in pvp.
Nah, not that rare there's a secret about FC. I am aware of HD and the other things. I am going to test it soon, anyway ^^ then i'll see. I have 25 dex and can get quite a bit of arpen but i did not focus on it and have ~ only 30%, i chose power instead to get 60-65% dmg added.
Comments
After many hours of testing and comparing, I can say for sure - besides your fine theorycraftig - that the block gets broken very (I would say: too) easily in the stronger versions of the heroic encounters in Icewind Dale (and not only there alone). I already have Armour Specialisation and Shield Defence (using a Tactician tree) and maybe the block lasts longer but this longer consists of mere seconds at best and is not able to give the Guardian Fighter any significant survivability enabling her to endure the attacks of many enemies at once.
Tanking is possible under harsh circumstances and with great risks at times making a Guardian Fighter easily somewhat unreliable. I managed to survive most of the time but the handling of this class is outright awful compared to the other classes I played so far and one of the important factors was that I had no lag or bucking of the picture most of the time.
I like that!
Or maybe give GF a Paladin Paragon, become a group support class that gives buffs and minor heals.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
There is not a difference at all.At all.or to be more exact there is Shield defence feat.Which gives 5AC.Do you know how much 5 Ac is worth?
.....2,5% Dr.That's **** right.A fully specced defender will have just 2,5% more DR.
Armor specialization is common for both paths.it is early feat and conq has access to it.
check the diefferences at nw calc.None serious differentation to be found.Concerning tankiness.
http://nwcalc.com/gf
Conclusion:Who ever says that the problem of Gfs are player problems by using t and not class design problems
1)obviously does not know how AC works.
2)Obviously does not pug.he rolls runs with his overgeared guild and thinks that because his 2 13-15gs CW buddies clean the mobs at 0 time ,he think he "tanks"
3)obviously he has a second toon alt.By 90% i am sure it is a japanese manga looking two handed swordman style..How we call this/?...e....GWf!!
can some defender please post me a video of him tanking the adds at Hrimmir FH?Vt can come later.we can start from the easy ones:FH.
thanks.
All "squishy" conqs wait for the "tanky" defs to show us how to tank and how their super difference of 2,5%DR helps them.
^^^
I have met high geared defenders in pvp.They can kill nothing while they last 2-3 secs longer.great difference.
Right on my man! I met a PUG GF on the opposing team last night, I could tell he was specced TANK MODE in the match as he hit me for pitiful damage even more pitiful then normal. He only mitigated maybe an extra 5% damage but only hurt 2 bars of my health before I killed him! I asked him after in a PM, he said he was tank spec with 2100 power...
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
I was going to post last night that in and of themselves there is not a huge difference between protector and conqueror. It is that those choices are usually correlated with very different gear choices, and by the time you get done stacking up all those differences you get a net difference that is appreciable. The key features of the protector is the increase hate from at-wills while shielding (+15%), the bonus to shield strength,the hate generation that comes with debuffing from the capstone, and the 10% reduction of damage to everyone not just you, but individually they are not really that big. You might say, well do Conquerer then, you know I did, and this is when I realized that unless you spec power there isn't all that much to gain from that capstone either! It only gets strong when you go deep on power. If you are just going to dabble power it isn't a big deal.
I haven't specced it, but I would guess the one shot wonder for individual tankiness is probably Tactician. In particularly one of the things I was thinking about today is their capstone keeps generating AP while they are getting CCd. While you are CCd as a GF you can't guard, since you can't guard your AP generation is HAMSTER, and you get combo'd and when you hit the ground or stand up you are no more closer to dailying your way out of it then when the combo started. Tactician would appear to give up a fair bit of sustain tankiness in exchange for the ability to play out of mistakes. I think I am going to play around with my current build another week and then give that a go. The reason I haven't in the past is the bonus guarding and hate generation while guarding and the unselfish 10% damage reduction for everyone, all seem good if you are thinking about the group, and the strongest thing you get the group in Tactician, that you can't also pick up from your left over 10 points getting Protector, is the 5% damage from Into the Fray.
In particular when I realized this me and a random cleric were two manning the troll group version of Chilltooth Invasion. The trolls were staggering AEs and this fight was taking forever with just the two of us, so occasionally they would start this 2 and 3 combo chain of CC where I would go flying way into the air. I was thinking man this whole time I am flying around doing nothing, I could be generating AP on tactician to give me immunity when I hit the ground. Instead I would hit the ground deftly walk out of the next red and try to get my shield up to finish my AP to get my immunity to really get some work done with all these AEs CCs going on.
Which brings me to what I came here to post about. I don't PvP in this game, but I do PvP the frack out of some MOBAs, and it seems to me that in PvE the long pre-effect interuptable animations on Dailies and Encounters are punitive and annoying and not well tuned for a weak class that needs to hold shift. I get the animation on at-will. It is the resource cost of doing the action. Having huge animations on dailies that must complete is so much of the problem. It just makes everything so much harder, and for what really?
They should do these two things before getting caught up in sweeping retunes:
Dailies: Instant Effect. You can cancel the animations.
Encounters: Effect at 1/4th or 1/5th the animation. Can cancel after that point.
They do that and the GF would be so much easier to play effectively.
I agree,
In real D&D a +5 armor class more is a 25% less chance to be hit... not a 2.5% more. I grant you the games work differently... but... you get the point here...
On a 1d20 your armor class is how easy you are to hit. Each 1 point rolled on a 20 sided dice is 5%. So if you've got +5 more AC you literally get hit 25% less.
Armor class in this game is... not very well represented.
+5 AC is ... not even close to what it should represent even going by their system.
While admittedly that might be a little overly nasty...
I do believe that to be accurate to a point.
Honestly the real reason the CWF meta exists (while it CAN be about speed running) its just as much to do with the deficiencies in the GF class not "poor players" or even players looking for an "Easy" run.
When you're playing a CW.... and you're in all these mass mobs.... if the only thing there is a GF, you're pretty much hosed, and are going to have to solo a lot of them. That is just the fact of the matter. He cannot keep them off you. So... the solution is to bring another CW, that way between the two of you, at the very least you can both focus on the mobs, each with your 3 second stuns alternating and your quick 1 second prones.
So it takes 2-3 CWs to make up for that shortcoming. Or just get rid of the GF entirely and grab a couple of GWFs and we can have a prone/stun fest between us all and I don't have to worry about ever soloing mobs. And they're better on Single Target mobs than I am they cover my weakness as a CW.
If I COULD count on a GF to maintain agro in a Mass Mob situation it wouldn't matter anymore and I COULD take other classes in the party as I know I'd be able to survive the thing and not be repeatedly wailed on the entire time.
I CAN count on the GF for smaller amount of Mobs and they can tank and hold a single boss mob like there's no tomorrow... BUT... all I ever have coming at me as a crapton of Adds.
We really need to look into the Mass Mob Agro control of the GF.
And that little armor class problem.
I used to be one..... it was laughable how I hit. Yup I would last longer then I do now but at least now I feel I am actually contributing to the fights.
I have no video, but was able to once: you should try it with a Guardian Fighter on the Tactician tree and with the Swordsman paragon path; the Steel Defence passive gives a good advantage to Villain's Menace and the GF is better able to concentrate on Threat Generation. But as I have no proof, you do not need to believe me.
Many good suggestions have come from us GF players for the Devs, so if they ever want to solve the issue in praxis, they have just to look at these threads.
For me the most laughable (ironic) thing was, when i first entered a T1 dungeon, that nearly all of our life saving (doesn't really exist, no real healing ability, no real life steal) , ok or prolonging skills are directed to the front.
Now if we kite, where does the damage come from, yes from behind and since we are so slow, without a real good DC we have to consume far more potions to stay alive, while we get far less potions dropped by the system, than any other class (tried it out trough toons).
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Villains Menance and Fighters Recovery should be merged together, a poor mans Unstoppable.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
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~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Fighters recovery is better than unstoppable survival wise my gf can heal 3-10k+ls with that with a single attack (depending on the attack) more especially if FR crits, poormans unstoppable my foot.
A sword master using it can become immune to damage and heal as it attacks for close to or more than they can hit so if its hp is low it can become immune and heal to full in 2 encounters IV can do this too but without the immunity.
i support and would love the idea; though I'm doubtful they'd do that as it means they would have to also make another daily to replace and may have to deal with balance ramifications.
(not insulting anything or attacking your views I'm just being realist)
An idea I had was to make all gf attacks "splash" aggro so your hit on one enemy shares the aggro with the nearby enemies based on the damage and aggro of the attack and other aggro generating feats, abilities, etc.
This would make moves like frontline surge, griffons wrath, wms, and many others allow and enforce grabbing of aggro; though it would probably take a while to code.
but this way you can keep the damage target cap on enforced threat where it is but have it generate more aggro to more enemies while other abilites also have the same effect thusly, making enforced threat not our only real way to gain this aggro while still keeping it our best option.
I would also suggest putting crit% on dexterity or strength my Tank GF only has a crit of 13% and thats only thanks to my stone without it; it is at 7% and that is only because all characters get a free 5% chance.
My conq has 24% but has the worst defenses because i have to use substandard gear to get that crit chance. My hr is more durable and hes full archer spec and gear.
I like my tank better.
EDIT: Now if fighters recovery converted incoing damage to hp whilst raising your DR then that would be useful. Right now you have to wait for the animation to finish hope your not interrupted and try and hit people with your silly damage!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Look, GF 101: If you use Knight's challenge and block 2-3 attacks you have full AP. 2x dmg = 2x AP. One does not cast FR in actual melee range in order to not get interrupted. Utilize FR at a certain distance, then lunging strike.
Understandable, but not always possible. Do you pvp on your GF? If so you will now there is not much window of opportunity with all the CC coming at you and around you... I am not the greatest GF pvper by a loooooooong shot, but I know how to play!
The problem is mostly getting cced after you get FR off... Because you do no damage and get no healing.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
I used to, before the first ELO reset, i had a score of 1200 kills with 200 deaths. But currently i am focusing on getting better enchantments even though PVE wise, we do suck and it takes ages to farm something. Strangely i have 7 deaths from pvp even though i never attempted to participate, again.
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Ah after FR actually is applied, i raise my shield for 1 second and then use lunging strike, sorry i forgot to mention that.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Oh i will, but i'd like to hit ~30% crit rate first with my new spec. I am at 28% now *cough*
Nice are you smashing gear sets together? I got mine to 24% but I was in dire need of other stats so I am back to 22%
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
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Off topic, i also have a nice new signature
Those will be your total deaths in the areas with open PvP.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
PvE included? Because i died a few times in heroics.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Yea! thats a crazy hit a rare one I am sure. However damage is mitigated better on players, then add in deflection, then add in tenacity and the damage is lowered more. So yea the amount you could hit a player in pvp would never hit that hard and then add in healing debuff in pvp.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Nah, not that rare there's a secret about FC. I am aware of HD and the other things. I am going to test it soon, anyway ^^ then i'll see. I have 25 dex and can get quite a bit of arpen but i did not focus on it and have ~ only 30%, i chose power instead to get 60-65% dmg added.