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Forums > Home› PvE Discussion

Upcoming PvP Changes: Matchmaking and Leaver Penalty

cmpinpointerrorcmpinpointerror Member, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta Users, Cryptic Developers, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Founder's Pack Users Posts: 646
edited March 2014 in PvE Discussion
Hey all,

We've detailed upcoming changes to PvP Domination based on the incredible feedback and suggestions we've received. To learn more, please click here.

What do you think about the upcoming changes? Let us know with a comment below!

Cheers,
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Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Why why why did anyone decide to stick with calling it a "leaver" penalty? Quitter penalty. Deserter penalty. But why did you make the official name of it something that isn't even a word?
    Guild Leader - The Lords of Light

    Neverwinter Census 2017

    All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
  • evantine1evantine1 Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Just for clarification, will the skill score alter Glory gain? if you defeat a team of lower scored people do you gain less glory than if you defeat a group with a higher score? What about individual kills?
  • loboguildloboguild Member Posts: 2,371 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    evantine1 wrote: »
    Just for clarification, will the skill score alter Glory gain? if you defeat a team of lower scored people do you gain less glory than if you defeat a group with a higher score? What about individual kills?

    No. Overall glory gain from Domination will be reduced by almost 30%, but the PVP Dailies will grant Glory.
  • newerthlessnewerthless Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    What if TR 4 piece bonus would be increased stealth recharge speed instead of longer stealth?
    Because longer stealth only benefits perma stealth trs and not every one play in perma stealth.
  • destinyknightdestinyknight Member Posts: 962 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Well it begins. My time pvping will soon come to an end with the introduction of this tenacity.

    What I think? Tenacity needs to go.
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited February 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • reiwulfreiwulf Member Posts: 2,687 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I can't wait for this to get to live server! Matchmaking will make things much more enjoyable for me, that's for sure.
    2e2qwj6.jpg
  • hadrielehadriele Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    What if we get disconnected? Unlike in dungeons, we get booted from the arena team if we get disconnected. This needs to be fixed so that after logging back on we're back in the arena. This fixes two things:

    1. People who get disconnected can rejoin the team. Their efforts for glory aren't wasted and they don't get penalized for disconnecting.
    2. People who plan to intentionally disconnect their internet in hopes of bypassing the leaver penalty will still find themselves in the arena after logging back in. They can still leave, but they will be penalized.
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited February 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • melodywhrmelodywhr Member Posts: 4,220 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    mod note: just a reminder that "i quit" and threats to quit posts are against the forum rules. also, hostile demands are not allowed either. feedback needs to be provided in a respectful and constructive manner. saying "in my opinion, tenacity is going to kill pvp for me because i won't be able to faceroll pugs anymore" is better than "tenacity sucks. who in the hell do the devs think they are anyway?"

    do not reply to this moderation note. instead, send us a PM if you'd like to discuss it.
  • melodywhrmelodywhr Member Posts: 4,220 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    hadriele wrote: »
    What if we get disconnected? Unlike in dungeons, we get booted from the arena team if we get disconnected. This needs to be fixed so that after logging back on we're back in the arena. This fixes two things:

    1. People who get disconnected can rejoin the team. Their efforts for glory aren't wasted and they don't get penalized for disconnecting.
    2. People who plan to intentionally disconnect their internet in hopes of bypassing the leaver penalty will still find themselves in the arena after logging back in. They can still leave, but they will be penalized.

    if you get disconnected, you will be able to rejoin. this was discussed in the valentine's day pvp with the devs on twitch, i believe. and you will not be penalized if you rejoin.
  • hadrielehadriele Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    melodywhr wrote: »
    if you get disconnected, you will be able to rejoin. this was discussed in the valentine's day pvp with the devs on twitch, i believe. and you will not be penalized if you rejoin.

    That is great news! My friends and I have had many frustrating moments of almost winning a hard fought match only to get randomly disconnected and booted after logging back in. It's great to know that we will now be able to rejoin the fight.
  • helpimblindinrlhelpimblindinrl Member Posts: 972 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    What do the penalties look like in terms of time before queueing for something else? Is it like 5 minutes, an hour, 2 hours? Those are kind of important details.

    Also lol still nothing done about gear imbalances, neverwinter pvp is straight forward bad up and until you fix that. Look at a real pvp game and see if you can see any other one allowing some players to begin a match with huge advantages. Counterstrike has the amount of players it does because its fair.
  • loboguildloboguild Member Posts: 2,371 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    It's 30 minutes
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited February 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • fuacccreationfuacccreation Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Hi everyone,
    first of all id like to state that the upcoming PvP patch is an important one and one that was awaited by a lot of players, inculing me.
    Regarding the changes as announced so far:
    1) I like the idea of a matchmaking system that is based on performance as matches tend to be very unfair a lot of times. Also this will allow for PvP guilds or teams to find challenging opponents. In addition, fairer matches will most probably prevent leaving for that given reason.
    2) I think a penalty for leaving a match was long overdue and it will hopefully prevent people from doing so. But i think the penalty should not occur if a player gets disconnected, as was stated before, this would be very unfair esp. as i feel that servers are not as stable as they should be. But i also think a penalty would not even be necessary if people had a bigger incentive to stay in a game even if it is obviously unbalanced. That is that the glory gain for the losing team should be a lot higher than it is right now. For example, i made the experience that for a match of about 20 minutes with hard fights and fairly balanced teams, the members of the losing team only get about 300 glory- independant of the individual scores. I dont think that is appropriate considering the time and effort put into the match.
  • zengiahzengiah Member Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    in my opinion, tenacity is going to kill PvP for me since nobody would want to play with a Control Wizard without control. Since Armpen is not working for most of our PvP powers and we are squishy, the control was the only thing we had. Without that, I dont see why anyone would choose us for PvP.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • melodywhrmelodywhr Member Posts: 4,220 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    zengiah wrote: »
    in my opinion, tenacity is going to kill PvP for me since nobody would want to play with a Control Wizard without control. Since Armpen is not working for most of our PvP powers and we are squishy, the control was the only thing we had. Without that, I dont see why anyone would choose us for PvP.

    i wouldn't give up hope entirely. for one, what is currently on the preview shard is likely not the final build that will hit the live shard. it'd be much different if they had already announced a date for these changes and they haven't.
  • zengiahzengiah Member Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    melodywhr wrote: »
    i wouldn't give up hope entirely. for one, what is currently on the preview shard is likely not the final build that will hit the live shard. it'd be much different if they had already announced a date for these changes and they haven't.

    I understand that. But what I see is what I can comment on. Until there are some changes, I will continue to complain about what I think are the problems. Haven't seen any devs saying that they working on the problems with the CW.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • melodywhrmelodywhr Member Posts: 4,220 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    zengiah wrote: »
    I understand that. But what I see is what I can comment on. Until there are some changes, I will continue to complain about what I think are the problems. Haven't seen any devs saying that they working on the problems with the CW.

    you should check the twitch stream from 2/14 - valentine's day pvp with the devs. i do believe there was a mention of ArP, although i couldn't give you a direct quote.
  • nameexpirednameexpired Member Posts: 1,282 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Concerning the leaver penalty:

    So, if I quit I get a penalty. So I change character, problem solved. As others will have this idea as well
    we might get in 4 weeks time an account penalty.
    Lucky those people who did not spend the 500 ZEN but created multiple accounts. There these account penalties will not apply.
    Multi account users just switch to another account for 30 minutes and do whatever they want. Good thing!

    This penalty idea is so far off the mark. Instead of fixing WHY people leave a PvP match the idea of FORCING them to stay will imho not solve anything.
    Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
  • zengiahzengiah Member Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    nameexpired wrote: »
    Concerning the leaver penalty:

    So, if I quit I get a penalty. So I change character, problem solved. As others will have this idea as well
    we might get in 4 weeks time an account penalty.
    Lucky those people who did not spend the 500 ZEN but created multiple accounts. There these account penalties will not apply.
    Multi account users just switch to another account for 30 minutes and do whatever they want. Good thing!

    This penalty idea is so far off the mark. Instead of fixing WHY people leave a PvP match the idea of FORCING them to stay will imho not solve anything.


    To be fair, they are trying to fix the reason why players leave with ELO and matchmaking.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • adernathadernath Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Hello staff!

    I want to thank you very much for taking note of the many suggestions in our forum. A matchmaking based on ELO rating is a large step towards a good pvp experience for everyone. Beginners will face people on the same niveau and experts will have challenges.

    I suggest two additional things:
    1. Dualspec. There are alot sophisticated pvp feats for my class which i never use, because i am still mostly involved in pve encounters. With dualspec we would have the opportunity to finetune our characters to pvp AND pve. Especially we pve-ers can play our classes closer to how they are intended to work in pvp. I am also sure there will be more respecs when people try out a second build while having a reliable primary build in the background.

    2. An armory/ranking system showing the current ELO-rating, achievement points and other things of a player. (unfortunately the achievements do not have a date shown)

    Greetings and keep on the good work!
    Suggestions to improve NW:
    - Dualspec
    - Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
    - Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
    - Armory
    - make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
  • pers3phonepers3phone Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    My feedback is very negative for what is Tenacity as of now.

    A while ago, I was actually suggesting Resilience mechanics, WoW-style, to tame down damage spikes and control damage output per class. This works in WoW very well, and pretty much brings players to levels of damage that are required to kill each other, instead of the huge damage they deal when fighting PvE bosses. All good.

    But here? Tenacity is just not doing its job properly.

    Negative aspects of Tenacity:

    - renders my CW class useless as well. We're not amazing in Live, but in Preview we're just dead. CC is out of the question.
    - blanketing all classes with same figures for CC/DR etc reduction. No. It should be adapted per class.
    - reduces Regen and Heals indiscriminately again for all classes, when some actually need those.

    Squishy class = SPIKE DAMAGE, CC allowed
    Tanky class = moderate CC, damage allowed

    As things stand now, the CW is barely dealing damage (ArP broken on PvP main skills), cannot CC (what the hell... this is mindboggling, please fix) and is the most squish class with no escape mechanics.
    Other classes have heals, stealth, big damage reduction, unstoppable... we have 3 teleports that need to be timed precisely and a shield that just occupies a slot for basically no gains if used.

    So please, do not allow Tenacity do go live as it is. It will just make me and other wizards either leave game (no, not a threat, OK?) or switch to GWF/HR.

    Conclusion:

    Please apply PINPOINT FIXES. Senti PvP GWF too strong? Work on that ALONE. DC senti "immortal"? Nah they aren't stop nerfing where it's not needed. DC class should be allowed to get tanky or have good heals... cause they deal almost NO DAMAGE. Tradeoffs, MMO style.
  • helpimblindinrlhelpimblindinrl Member Posts: 972 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    you should check the twitch stream from 2/14 - valentine's day pvp with the devs. i do believe there was a mention of ArP, although i couldn't give you a direct quote.

    I had a look, it said they were aware of it and would look into it but somehow its complicated and it sounded like a one day in the future thing rather than anything imminent. So yeah, wizards can suck it up in the meantime, they're only going to be fighting more damage reduction without gaining the penetration they might bother to stack.

    It would be nice if Evocation worked with spells it supposed to but given that armour sets don't even agree on what a control power is that might be asking a bit much as well. I'm sure that's really complicated too
  • twstdechotwstdecho Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 630 Bounty Hunter
    edited February 2014
    First things first. I'm glad you guys are putting in a matchmaking system, and I have my fingers crossed and hope it's going to work wonders. However, I implore you to consider an additional change. Give us a way to challenge a particular person/group in a match (maybe even one that doesn't count toward our win/loss record). Currently, our guild, and I assume others as well, like to have inter-guild PvP challenges. We do this on a weekly basis, and are fairly successful at facing off against one another. I would hate to see the new system get in the way of this type of community event. This would even allow the community to hold their own PvP tournaments.

    As for the penalty...

    Penalizing people that have only been trying to make the best of a bad situation is ridiculous. Personally, I would have addressed the issues causing people to leave, and kept the penalty for leaving on the back burner to see if it continued to be a problem after the match making system was in place. Even then, I tend to view it mostly as a symptom of a bad (or non existent) system, and as such, penalizing for it should be a last resort. If you don't fix the root issues, you're just shifting behavior. Instead of leaving, they camp at the fire. Penalize them for that and they will just hop off the campfire and go stand in a corner somewhere.

    Now, maybe the new matchmaking system fixes the problem, and a penalty for leaving becomes a moot point, and if so, great, but then look at the time wasted figuring out a way to penalize people for exhibiting behavior created by a poor pvp match system.
  • nameexpirednameexpired Member Posts: 1,282 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    To be fair, they are trying to fix the reason why players leave with ELO and matchmaking.
    If they thought that this fixes the reason why people quit PvP then the the leavers penalty would be obsolete.
    Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
  • djarkaandjarkaan Member Posts: 883 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    A few concerns.

    1 Tenacity rendering EBE/ Moon Elf obsolete or does it stack? Afraid to see Moon elves fight each other all the time wearing the same gear.
    2 No new maps? That was a huge feedback yet nothing in the article...
    3 Earning Glory now spending later? Or Glory is reset? So exploiter and premades will get all their top gear without even fighting under the new system?

    But at least it's a step in the opposite direction.
  • djarkaandjarkaan Member Posts: 883 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    A few concerns.

    1 Tenacity rendering EBE/ Moon Elf obsolete or does it stack? Afraid to see Moon elves fight each other all the time wearing the same gear.
    2 No new maps? That was a huge feedback yet nothing in the article...
    3 Earning Glory now spending later? Or Glory is reset? So exploiter and premades will get all their top gear without even fighting under the new system?

    But at least it's a step in the opposite direction.
  • dardovedardove Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    djarkaan wrote: »
    3 Earning Glory now spending later? Or Glory is reset? So exploiter and premades will get all their top gear without even fighting under the new system?

    Glory is capped at 25k currently (and getting raised to 50k when the changes launch). The new tier 2.5 chest piece costs 24k and 10 seals of triumph (which can't be earned until the changes launch). That is just 1/4 of a tier 2.5 set.
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