All I can imagine is there would be more premade, which means solo queue players are most likely get <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
Since the game could be 30 mins long I would really like to play with someone who can play.
Or ofc I can just afk, alt+tab out.
The idea of leaver penalty seem rather dumb for me. The matchmaking system in game is complete garbage and how they can not expect there to be no quitting? I just hope the new matchmaking ELO thing actually help place players with similar skill together, or I would just 5 Man premade all day.
Separate queues would be a nice bonus, agreed. But consider: With an ELO ladder in place, what are the odds of a high ranking premade running into a low ranked pug when another premade of equal rank is also available? The odds are higher you run into a premade the higher ranking you get. So in theory it should be easier for premade vs premade once the teams have worked their way up the ladder. The only "challenge" will be getting up that ladder. Let's see how this works out before we set a dozen devs working on a complete new system.
Actually from the description I would say the odds are 100% guaranteed every night and all times except prime time USA hours. Here's the relevant bit "The PvP Domination queue attempts to match you with other players that are at a similar skill rating. As a result, queuing times for PvP Domination may be longer than you are used to, especially when the queue population is low. Even at low populations, however, the new queue times should be minimal as long as there are enough players in the queue to play." Note the emphasized bit at the end. If there's 5 elite players and 5 scrubs, it appears that a game will start and the scrubs will get farmed.
Additionally, given my experience with ladders in more than a dozen games, I fully expect there to be griefers trading intentional losses for their griefing characters to other pvp guilds (or their same guild and even same players on alternate accounts via dual boxing) by the end of the first day forcing and keeping maxed out PvP characters in the bottom rungs just so they can farm helpless opponents and laugh at them. I have NEVER found a laddered game where this didn't happen at least to a small degree. Especially since it's often easier and often provides higher rewards than actually competing. May not here, but I've seen it many times.
The issue is not that teams of different ELOs will meet but a premade and a pug with the same ELO can meet. A premade will always have a distinct advantage over a pug even with the same rating and the system doesn't adjust to that (neither within the rating, nor in the glory rewards, which are stagnant). A single player rating in a team environment is flawed by design, the player with the highest rating doesn't have to be the best player.
Also a good point against the matching system and for separate queues.
Personally, I think these changes will not help bring new players to PvP. The core problem that new players have with PvP is that what works is fundamentally different than PvE. Builds, gear, strategies all are different. Dedicated PvP players, in a premade group, even on new alts with junk gear will devastate experienced PvE players who don't know PvP. Typically this will be accompanied by a slew of rude comments. Those PvE players will try a few times, get the same result, and not come back. Nothing here addresses that.
Break the premades out into a separate queue where they only fight each other. And use a good mixing algorythm so that guildmembers/premades who queue as individuals all at the same time have even odds of being on opposite teams (this was a trick we used in WoW and other games to get around their attempts to forcibly break up premades. Usually one or two people missed out, but you still got 3 or 4 out of 5 people in a faked premade vs 5 scrubs in a real premade.
Secondly, have an intro-level PvP rank or queue where all gear is balanced and everyone is on equal footing. This at least removes one of the complexities and one learning hurdle, it also removes one of the griefer's tools. Which would go a long way toward helping new players get the hang of the build and strategy differences in PvP.
Quiting an even match is an attitude problem to me which should be burned to the ground. Why do people insist this game is their life's work? it's a GAME.
and I say:
Quiting an dungeon is an attitude problem to me which should be burned to the ground.
I qualified by my gear score of 9204 for CN. So anyone who leaves because I and others are not well equipped or whatever should get a penalty as well for leaving a dungeon instance.
Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
What penalty would you consider fair for a player who willingly and knowingly griefs his team again and again till he gets what he wants? To me, a day's ban wouldn't be good enough for people like that.
Separate queues would be a nice bonus, agreed. But consider: With an ELO ladder in place, what are the odds of a high ranking premade running into a low ranked pug when another premade of equal rank is also available? The odds are higher you run into a premade the higher ranking you get. So in theory it should be easier for premade vs premade once the teams have worked their way up the ladder. The only "challenge" will be getting up that ladder. Let's see how this works out before we set a dozen devs working on a complete new system.
My unworthy 5c:
If I willingly decide to "ruin your run" I do something to annoy you, e.g. in PvE I will go as a DC with you as far as the door of draco, then I afk outside of the purple entering circle and mock you. This is ruining your run willfully.
I do not feel that I - as you say it - "willingly destroy your run" if I choose that my time is under the observed current circumstances better employed elsewhere. I think the "run" is destroyed by the game mechanics.
Another question: do I willfully destroy your run by being bad geared? To be a slow player? Where does it stop that my presence or absence is NOT ruining your run?
I did commit to PvP or PvE, but I had no idea what I get as teammates. I don't get asked "do you accept this or that as partner".
* L1 rented mount
* white or no underwear (because of the looks - even in PvP)
* L3 enchants
* level 43 blues or greens
* DC's with "I don't know how to cast this blue circle"
* someone with the name Drizzt or Legolas
My point is, If I leave a match or dungeon I do not want to willingly ruin your run, but the system is designed that my action (leaving) makes your run ruined (you loose). To force me into staying, or giving penalties for leaving, makes my run ruined. Why is your experience more important than mine?
And we are talking about a fictional you and me, just to make this clear.
We are not discussing 8 other's that are in this PvP match as well, as there might be 5 players on the opponents team that think "hey, great, easy glory" and are totally happy with my choice to leave @ 10:100, giving them 1000 glory within 5 minutes. There might be a premade that say's "<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, again out in 2 minutes". We don't know who else is effected in what manner by my choice to leave. We talk about your experience and mine.
Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
and I say:
Quiting an dungeon is an attitude problem to me which should be burned to the ground.
I qualified by my gear score of 9204 for CN. So anyone who leaves because I and others are not well equipped or whatever should get a penalty as well for leaving a dungeon instance.
If someone leaves a dungeon, you'll get another player often in a few seconds. That doesn't work for PvP so it's an entirely different thing.
Also, since dungeons are broken by design, the lack of certain class (usually CW) may and will often turn a simple 30 minutes run into a 2 hours nightmare people might not be prepared for (time wise). In PvP you win or lose in 10 minutes so it doesn't matter.
My point is, If I leave a match or dungeon I do not want to willingly ruin your run, but the system is designed that my action (leaving) makes your run ruined (you loose). To force me into staying, or giving penalties for leaving, makes my run ruined. Why is your experience more important than mine?
You forget that one quitter would ruin the run of not just 1 but other 4 guys.
I, myself, do quit totally loop side matches, that 14k+ premade vs my team with 3 or 4 7k gs guys. Those matches are just hopeless. However, a better matchmaking is going to fix this problem, hopefully. When that new system is implemented, there is no more excuse for quitting a match in which all people are with equally gears, and same skill level. Thus, those who quit are deserved to be punished.
You forget that one quitter would ruin the run of not just 1 but other 4 guys.
This is an assumption.
I dare say that very often the quitter might make it less fun for 4 others (his team mates) but might as well make it an easy fast glory win for 5 others, which they might want anyway - making it 6 good experiences vs. 4 bad experiences. This is all pure speculation. I know lots of people who would not frown upon easy glory in 5 minutes in comparison to a 25 minutes 952/999 win. And if 2 of the 4 on my team had intended afk after 500 points anyway they will not mind, leaving you and 1 more who are :mad: vs. 6 and 2 who are happy that their afk match is fast over for 300 glory.
Just saw that sig ...
You say 4v5 is impossible? Cool story bro.
So you actually like a challenge and brag with it? Great! Whats your problem? Not fond of challenges any more, are we?
Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
"Personally, I think these changes will not help bring new players to PvP. The core problem that new players have with PvP is that what works is fundamentally different than PvE. Builds, gear, strategies all are different. "
Works fundamentally???Really?In which way??Do you think that capping some nodes require intellectual???Really???
What my ears hear....Every 60lv player can grasp the fundamentals of PVP in 3-4 games.It is not nuclear science it is a casual action MMO!!
"Dedicated PvP players, in a premade group, even on new alts with junk gear will devastate experienced PvE players who don't know PvP."
Totally wrong."vet" players with out their perfect vorpal and soulforged and artifacts are totally USELESS because they don't have tactics in gameplay except button mashing.I have seen it again and again and again since beta.I am speaking about the majority.There are always exceptions.Show me one "vet" player with green against a "****" with perfect vorpals outgutting him.Really i want to see that.
Not personal and sorry for my tone.
In general now people that do not want penalties have a very simple simple ,really simple reason.THEY ARE THE USUAL QUITTERS!!lol
You just saw it on this forum!!!! Check the posts again.All that are against here just now simply declared directrly or indirectly that often quit!!!!F... Amazing!!!!And since they are on these forums are "vet" players.What did i said earlier??
Vets or better credit card boys are the bane of this game.Quess what?We all put money and time in this game.If you put more doesn't mean that now this is THEIR GAME.Quess what?IT IS NOT!
The good is that quitters are the 10-20% of pvp players.meaning they are a vocal,yet a minority.
Cryptic:Move forward and ban every ***** quitter and if one does not feel good about it,then ciao baby,allo,au revoir ,cee you,nonchacha amigos.WoW is expecting you with open arms.
For every quitter that leaves another 2-3 new players will come for a simple reason.GAME WILL BE SIMPLY BETTER AND MORE BALANCED with these changes.
I 'm fed up with overgeared credit boys who creates an illusionary digital life in which they are gods and don't want others to ruin their show.Not personal,just sayin'.
How about this: hard fight, even match up to a score of 230:240, then the GWF on the other team notices that he is still in PvE gear and switches to his BiS-PvP gear, score going to 280/520, no change in sight.
Why would I stay in this match? I surrender. I don't WANT to spoil anyone's game.
But there is no surrender button. I don't like being ragdolled around. I have the thinking that the match is over. My team lost.
But there is still no "I surrender" button there. There is only the "leave party" or the campfire sitting. What should I do?
Be so kind and point me in the right direction.
Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
"Personally, I think these changes will not help bring new players to PvP. The core problem that new players have with PvP is that what works is fundamentally different than PvE. Builds, gear, strategies all are different. "
Works fundamentally???Really?In which way??Do you think that capping some nodes require intellectual???Really???
What my ears hear....Every 60lv player can grasp the fundamentals of PVP in 3-4 games.It is not nuclear science it is a casual action MMO!!
Good luck in laying down an Icy Terrain and hoping enemy players will hop and stay in it just as mobs would do. Or charge a MoC or sudden storm and expect that that enemy HR will just wait for it without moving as any ranged mob. Your entire optimal PvE power set might be completely useless in PvP.
The problem is the mismatch. take 60s you get a fresh 60 even if they managed to get bis gear and enchants they get thrown in the mix against 60s with two full sets of boons. Now throw in a fresh 60 with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear. Better still throw a low level new player against one that has the epics that level with you and put in rank10 enchants. Now lets add the player skill, unslotted abilities etc.....the list goes on.
O you say this new mysterious matchmaking system will fix all. It didn't work on preview and the devs already said it will be behind the scenes. So lets just add a bunch of pvp stats to pvp gear so you have no choice but to carry two sets of gear and heaven forbid you don't like the changes.
Take what we give you and like it or we will penalize your from playing group content. After all its an MMO and you are ruining it for others.
all nice, in some cases that penalty thing.
but a lot matches are decided within the first minute.
what if someone is in the losing team and doesn`t manage to get the required +-375 points.
even while all are still in the match.
the number of 3 or less players seems also a bit too low to be penalty free.
should be 4.
doesn`t need explaning, but just it must be someones free will to keep play a 4vs5
or it`s forced afk.
lot of scenarios, but the 3 or less is a bit too much.
LOL? Does the arena/dungeon have your name on it? NO.
I'll make this short.
We're living in reality, not a drama. I don't give a flying eff about your ethics. As long as I feel that it's wasting my time or whatever reason I like, I'll hit the O button, then click on LEAVE INSTANCE without hesitating for a split second.
Makes perfect sense to you?
and you still can. its just gonna cost ya. Fair enough if you think of it. You get to leave because its a waste of your time. And you get pen. for wasting others time. See everyone gets something ....yea im trollin my *** off hahaha
So lets just add a bunch of pvp stats to pvp gear so you have no choice but to carry two sets of gear and heaven forbid you don't like the changes.
As my inventory is limited by 5 bags I don't have much space to waste.
So I intend to ignore this tenacity gear as such. As I hope will many others. With the - lets call it ELO - system in place I should meet mostly either players with my attitude or players with PvP gear but little skill, right?
So only the "I must rule in PvP" girls and boys will be effected by the new gear. Is this right?
Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
Based on the info that's being released so far, it looks like a combination of GS combined with a personal win/loss ratio. I'm not sure about the attitude of the players, but the resistance you face from the other team should be about equal to the treat your team possesses to them. So when either your personal rank or your gear goes up, your opponents grow with you. Some players will grow in gear faster than in ranking, others might grow in personal ranking only and don't bother with the gear.
Sounds as if someone that is only after the glory they should wear level 5 gear while queuing, then put on 15k GS gear to steamroll the others?
I am looking forward to matchmaking ... we will see the outcome soon!
Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
Sounds as if someone that is only after the glory they should wear level 5 gear while queuing, then put on 15k GS gear to steamroll the others?
I am looking forward to matchmaking ... we will see the outcome soon!
I hope it is not tied to GS score (if not locked upon queuing for pvp), it would be a terrible design. It should be a win/loss based score, so hardcore pvpers will skyrocket to the top while casual players like me will stay low and hopefully achieve something next to a 1:1 win/loss ratio (my current ratio as a casual pvper is something like 15 losses for 2 wins).
To me the idea of match making and Tenacity and penalties for leaving mean absolutely nothing if the fundamental flaw of the NW PvP content is not addressed. Namely the lack of it.
I've not seen anything so far that indicates that a complete overhaul of Gauntlgrym is happening or the addition of new and varied 5 man arenas. From what I can see, an added layer of uselessness is being added to the existing problem with nothing to address the current issues.
I enjoy the fights in pvp, but currently Gauntlgrym is one large horse race with little to no fighting because the layout of the map is so bad. What could be a very enjoyable battle is reduced to tedium. Likewise, doing the same 2 maps over and over again for the 5 man arena is dull. These are things the Devs should be working on changing, not adding another useless layer to an already broken system.
To me the idea of match making and Tenacity and penalties for leaving mean absolutely nothing if the fundamental flaw of the NW PvP content is not addressed. Namely the lack of it.
I've not seen anything so far that indicates that a complete overhaul of Gauntlgrym is happening or the addition of new and varied 5 man arenas. From what I can see, an added layer of uselessness is being added to the existing problem with nothing to address the current issues.
+1 on this from me. And this makes leaving a match even easier. Especially the GG situation. Yes, I am Luskan and intend to stay Luskan.
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0
frost168Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
It dont. because the good and bad are still rated off what their team does. Guess what that means? If you suck then you not going to get a premade. Trust me as sure as i know mmos. The elite will not loose this battle. You have 1000 points of *** kicking to look foward to unless you want to quit and take the pen. I'm not being a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> just being honest. As a 16.3 pvp geared cw im sure as hell not doing it without a premade. Its pointless. So yea i welcome the changes as well. gives me more time to play other games when my friends are not on :-)
As a 17k GS pvp geared and spec'd CW I LOVE pvp'ing solo. It's the highlight of my day. Nothing funner than stomping perma-fails, and gwfs. They give me the most QQ's and rage quits. I mean, a CW is not supposed to stomp them like that It's a blast to rally your pug team to stand tall against a premade or semi-premade. Most will stay simply because they know with me being there, they have a chance and will listen to my directions. I don't just stomp pugs, I try and teach those on my team how to play. Pugging is more fun than fighting against top premades all day. If I can't get accused of running hacks and cheats at least once a day, I feel unfulfilled
Typical pug fight is over in 10 min. typical premade v premade <equal teams> 40min to 90min PER match.
I don't give free glory. EARN IT !! I have already proven to people over and over, the majority of pugs don't want glory, they want to stomp opponents. How do u prove this? easily. Run a premade, let the other team 3 cap and gain 300 glory, THEN stomp them into oblivion. Guess what, 3-5 always immediately leave after we retake the 3 points. It's even funnier when a premade rage quits another premade.
I am gonna be in PVP heaven when this patch goes through.. WOOOOOT!!!!!
The whole "tenacity" stat just feels like a "wookie defense" to me. Meaning we don't want to address some of the class imbalances and instead would like to throw in this new "stat" to confuse and hide behind. We don't need stats to hide behind. Quality matchmaking with some logic around classes, GS and win/losses would be outstanding.
As a 17k GS pvp geared and spec'd CW I LOVE pvp'ing solo. It's the highlight of my day. Nothing funner than stomping perma-fails, and gwfs. They give me the most QQ's and rage quits. I mean, a CW is not supposed to stomp them like that It's a blast to rally your pug team to stand tall against a premade or semi-premade. Most will stay simply because they know with me being there, they have a chance and will listen to my directions. I don't just stomp pugs, I try and teach those on my team how to play. Pugging is more fun than fighting against top premades all day. If I can't get accused of running hacks and cheats at least once a day, I feel unfulfilled
Typical pug fight is over in 10 min. typical premade v premade <equal teams> 40min to 90min PER match.
I don't give free glory. EARN IT !! I have already proven to people over and over, the majority of pugs don't want glory, they want to stomp opponents. How do u prove this? easily. Run a premade, let the other team 3 cap and gain 300 glory, THEN stomp them into oblivion. Guess what, 3-5 always immediately leave after we retake the 3 points. It's even funnier when a premade rage quits another premade.
I am gonna be in PVP heaven when this patch goes through.. WOOOOOT!!!!!
Can we, poor newbie wizards, have any info on gear and tactics, maybe and guide how to deal with those pesky TR's and GWF's!
[10:49] [Combat (Self)] Your Proton Barrage deals 96581 (43411) Proton(Critical) to Seto.
Poor soul didnt have time to log out.
I hope it is not tied to GS score (if not locked upon queuing for pvp), it would be a terrible design. It should be a win/loss based score, so hardcore pvpers will skyrocket to the top while casual players like me will stay low and hopefully achieve something next to a 1:1 win/loss ratio (my current ratio as a casual pvper is something like 15 losses for 2 wins).
Personal win v loss is worthless because you very well may have 16k gs people surrounded by 5k gs people.... (yes it happens to me. I get a decent amount of kills while the rest of my team gets murdered. its bs) Will i get credit for this in a good way? Nope. A gs based system would make it to where people would at least get a better match up. Its not just the lower gs people that are getting screw in the current system. So geared people do try the randomness of pugs. (i do) It would be nice to fight and fight with people in the same gear lvl or close to. To me the only people who would not like a gs system are 1. those who have not geared up and hope for the geared to que up with them. 2. the geared people that enjoy murdering people in green gear.....
As a 17k GS pvp geared and spec'd CW I LOVE pvp'ing solo. It's the highlight of my day. Nothing funner than stomping perma-fails, and gwfs. They give me the most QQ's and rage quits. I mean, a CW is not supposed to stomp them like that It's a blast to rally your pug team to stand tall against a premade or semi-premade. Most will stay simply because they know with me being there, they have a chance and will listen to my directions. I don't just stomp pugs, I try and teach those on my team how to play. Pugging is more fun than fighting against top premades all day. If I can't get accused of running hacks and cheats at least once a day, I feel unfulfilled
Typical pug fight is over in 10 min. typical premade v premade <equal teams> 40min to 90min PER match.
I don't give free glory. EARN IT !! I have already proven to people over and over, the majority of pugs don't want glory, they want to stomp opponents. How do u prove this? easily. Run a premade, let the other team 3 cap and gain 300 glory, THEN stomp them into oblivion. Guess what, 3-5 always immediately leave after we retake the 3 points. It's even funnier when a premade rage quits another premade.
I am gonna be in PVP heaven when this patch goes through.. WOOOOOT!!!!!
can i please have some of the happy juice your drinking o.O. What your speaking of is a like an act of congress lol. For one most premades will have at least 2 gwfs. (you wont get up....ever unless they suck badly) ohhhh or the new thing thats going 2 gwf's 1 gf 1 tr and a dc...... yea lol (now if by some chance you do get up "prone city" lashing will be waiting..... So look lets be realistic lol In terms of balance the CW has gotten the short end of the stick in pvp. But ehh im not in denial lol and yea im 16.3 with blues 17.3 with all epics (dont really do much for my build running all epics in pvp). I agree with you on rallying a team. However you have to have something to rally. If your surround by 5-8k gs people and your fighting a geared premade its not going to happen. Even if they suck its not going to happen. Which is why i don't like the new changes because it really has done nothing to address that. Make the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> fair. A gs system would do that. People that want to do pvp on their alts they have not geared would get to fight others just doing dailies. People wanting to get a 15k gs+ team together would fight people of that caliber or close to. Hell a separate que for premades even would be nice. But ehh im dreaming ....
I guess the only resolution is to lose on purpose for the first week or so. Then after that you might get some decent matches in place if your not an uber geared 16k pvp gamer.
Personal win v loss is worthless because you very well may have 16k gs people surrounded by 5k gs people.... (yes it happens to me. I get a decent amount of kills while the rest of my team gets murdered. its bs) Will i get credit for this in a good way? Nope. A gs based system would make it to where people would at least get a better match up. Its not just the lower gs people that are getting screw in the current system. So geared people do try the randomness of pugs. (i do) It would be nice to fight and fight with people in the same gear lvl or close to. To me the only people who would not like a gs system are 1. those who have not geared up and hope for the geared to que up with them. 2. the geared people that enjoy murdering people in green gear.....
GS is quite nonsensical, has an erratic behaviour, and you can easily find a way to fool it, it doesn't represent correctly the "strength" of a player (a highly geared but unexperienced pvp player will still get steamrolled by skilled players).
While occasionally, especially in the first days or so of the new matchmaking, you will find "good" players and "bad" players mixed while the system is tuning, in the long run you won't find yourself often in such parties, as hardcore players will tend to win (and go up in score) while casual players, despite occasional victory by being in a good party, will on average stay low in score.
As a 17k GS pvp geared and spec'd CW I LOVE pvp'ing solo. It's the highlight of my day. Nothing funner than stomping perma-fails, and gwfs. They give me the most QQ's and rage quits. I mean, a CW is not supposed to stomp them like that It's a blast to rally your pug team to stand tall against a premade or semi-premade. Most will stay simply because they know with me being there, they have a chance and will listen to my directions. I don't just stomp pugs, I try and teach those on my team how to play. Pugging is more fun than fighting against top premades all day. If I can't get accused of running hacks and cheats at least once a day, I feel unfulfilled
Typical pug fight is over in 10 min. typical premade v premade <equal teams> 40min to 90min PER match.
I don't give free glory. EARN IT !! I have already proven to people over and over, the majority of pugs don't want glory, they want to stomp opponents. How do u prove this? easily. Run a premade, let the other team 3 cap and gain 300 glory, THEN stomp them into oblivion. Guess what, 3-5 always immediately leave after we retake the 3 points. It's even funnier when a premade rage quits another premade.
I am gonna be in PVP heaven when this patch goes through.. WOOOOOT!!!!!
I wouldn't be too sure about this..The main reason ( I'm sure you are quite skilled) you roflstomp is due to your GS against low gs toons..With matchmaking coming up, and the nerfs to cc, you wont be stomping on 8k gs gwf anymore ( or for long )..
What you said makes no sense o.O. I do not like killing people that are lower gs....kinda the point of why i want a gs system. makes sense? And im not sure of your skill either because your like the only cw i know that thinks it can **** gwfs none stop o.O. But thats neither here nor there lol. If you just stand at the back and run i dont really call that skill XD But ehh im sure we will meet in a match. Hope it will be fun! :-D
Comments
Since the game could be 30 mins long I would really like to play with someone who can play.
Or ofc I can just afk, alt+tab out.
The idea of leaver penalty seem rather dumb for me. The matchmaking system in game is complete garbage and how they can not expect there to be no quitting? I just hope the new matchmaking ELO thing actually help place players with similar skill together, or I would just 5 Man premade all day.
Actually from the description I would say the odds are 100% guaranteed every night and all times except prime time USA hours. Here's the relevant bit "The PvP Domination queue attempts to match you with other players that are at a similar skill rating. As a result, queuing times for PvP Domination may be longer than you are used to, especially when the queue population is low. Even at low populations, however, the new queue times should be minimal as long as there are enough players in the queue to play." Note the emphasized bit at the end. If there's 5 elite players and 5 scrubs, it appears that a game will start and the scrubs will get farmed.
Additionally, given my experience with ladders in more than a dozen games, I fully expect there to be griefers trading intentional losses for their griefing characters to other pvp guilds (or their same guild and even same players on alternate accounts via dual boxing) by the end of the first day forcing and keeping maxed out PvP characters in the bottom rungs just so they can farm helpless opponents and laugh at them. I have NEVER found a laddered game where this didn't happen at least to a small degree. Especially since it's often easier and often provides higher rewards than actually competing. May not here, but I've seen it many times.
Also a good point against the matching system and for separate queues.
Personally, I think these changes will not help bring new players to PvP. The core problem that new players have with PvP is that what works is fundamentally different than PvE. Builds, gear, strategies all are different. Dedicated PvP players, in a premade group, even on new alts with junk gear will devastate experienced PvE players who don't know PvP. Typically this will be accompanied by a slew of rude comments. Those PvE players will try a few times, get the same result, and not come back. Nothing here addresses that.
Break the premades out into a separate queue where they only fight each other. And use a good mixing algorythm so that guildmembers/premades who queue as individuals all at the same time have even odds of being on opposite teams (this was a trick we used in WoW and other games to get around their attempts to forcibly break up premades. Usually one or two people missed out, but you still got 3 or 4 out of 5 people in a faked premade vs 5 scrubs in a real premade.
Secondly, have an intro-level PvP rank or queue where all gear is balanced and everyone is on equal footing. This at least removes one of the complexities and one learning hurdle, it also removes one of the griefer's tools. Which would go a long way toward helping new players get the hang of the build and strategy differences in PvP.
Quiting an dungeon is an attitude problem to me which should be burned to the ground.
I qualified by my gear score of 9204 for CN. So anyone who leaves because I and others are not well equipped or whatever should get a penalty as well for leaving a dungeon instance.
Just FYI.:cool:
My unworthy 5c:
If I willingly decide to "ruin your run" I do something to annoy you, e.g. in PvE I will go as a DC with you as far as the door of draco, then I afk outside of the purple entering circle and mock you. This is ruining your run willfully.
I do not feel that I - as you say it - "willingly destroy your run" if I choose that my time is under the observed current circumstances better employed elsewhere. I think the "run" is destroyed by the game mechanics.
Another question: do I willfully destroy your run by being bad geared? To be a slow player? Where does it stop that my presence or absence is NOT ruining your run?
I did commit to PvP or PvE, but I had no idea what I get as teammates. I don't get asked "do you accept this or that as partner".
* L1 rented mount
* white or no underwear (because of the looks - even in PvP)
* L3 enchants
* level 43 blues or greens
* DC's with "I don't know how to cast this blue circle"
* someone with the name Drizzt or Legolas
My point is, If I leave a match or dungeon I do not want to willingly ruin your run, but the system is designed that my action (leaving) makes your run ruined (you loose). To force me into staying, or giving penalties for leaving, makes my run ruined. Why is your experience more important than mine?
And we are talking about a fictional you and me, just to make this clear.
We are not discussing 8 other's that are in this PvP match as well, as there might be 5 players on the opponents team that think "hey, great, easy glory" and are totally happy with my choice to leave @ 10:100, giving them 1000 glory within 5 minutes. There might be a premade that say's "<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, again out in 2 minutes". We don't know who else is effected in what manner by my choice to leave. We talk about your experience and mine.
If someone leaves a dungeon, you'll get another player often in a few seconds. That doesn't work for PvP so it's an entirely different thing.
Also, since dungeons are broken by design, the lack of certain class (usually CW) may and will often turn a simple 30 minutes run into a 2 hours nightmare people might not be prepared for (time wise). In PvP you win or lose in 10 minutes so it doesn't matter.
You forget that one quitter would ruin the run of not just 1 but other 4 guys.
I, myself, do quit totally loop side matches, that 14k+ premade vs my team with 3 or 4 7k gs guys. Those matches are just hopeless. However, a better matchmaking is going to fix this problem, hopefully. When that new system is implemented, there is no more excuse for quitting a match in which all people are with equally gears, and same skill level. Thus, those who quit are deserved to be punished.
I dare say that very often the quitter might make it less fun for 4 others (his team mates) but might as well make it an easy fast glory win for 5 others, which they might want anyway - making it 6 good experiences vs. 4 bad experiences. This is all pure speculation. I know lots of people who would not frown upon easy glory in 5 minutes in comparison to a 25 minutes 952/999 win. And if 2 of the 4 on my team had intended afk after 500 points anyway they will not mind, leaving you and 1 more who are :mad: vs. 6
Just saw that sig ...
You say 4v5 is impossible? Cool story bro.
So you actually like a challenge and brag with it? Great! Whats your problem? Not fond of challenges any more, are we?
Works fundamentally???Really?In which way??Do you think that capping some nodes require intellectual???Really???
What my ears hear....Every 60lv player can grasp the fundamentals of PVP in 3-4 games.It is not nuclear science it is a casual action MMO!!
"Dedicated PvP players, in a premade group, even on new alts with junk gear will devastate experienced PvE players who don't know PvP."
Totally wrong."vet" players with out their perfect vorpal and soulforged and artifacts are totally USELESS because they don't have tactics in gameplay except button mashing.I have seen it again and again and again since beta.I am speaking about the majority.There are always exceptions.Show me one "vet" player with green against a "****" with perfect vorpals outgutting him.Really i want to see that.
Not personal and sorry for my tone.
In general now people that do not want penalties have a very simple simple ,really simple reason.THEY ARE THE USUAL QUITTERS!!lol
You just saw it on this forum!!!! Check the posts again.All that are against here just now simply declared directrly or indirectly that often quit!!!!F... Amazing!!!!And since they are on these forums are "vet" players.What did i said earlier??
Vets or better credit card boys are the bane of this game.Quess what?We all put money and time in this game.If you put more doesn't mean that now this is THEIR GAME.Quess what?IT IS NOT!
The good is that quitters are the 10-20% of pvp players.meaning they are a vocal,yet a minority.
Cryptic:Move forward and ban every ***** quitter and if one does not feel good about it,then ciao baby,allo,au revoir ,cee you,nonchacha amigos.WoW is expecting you with open arms.
For every quitter that leaves another 2-3 new players will come for a simple reason.GAME WILL BE SIMPLY BETTER AND MORE BALANCED with these changes.
I 'm fed up with overgeared credit boys who creates an illusionary digital life in which they are gods and don't want others to ruin their show.Not personal,just sayin'.
Why would I stay in this match? I surrender. I don't WANT to spoil anyone's game.
But there is no surrender button. I don't like being ragdolled around. I have the thinking that the match is over. My team lost.
But there is still no "I surrender" button there. There is only the "leave party" or the campfire sitting. What should I do?
Be so kind and point me in the right direction.
Good luck in laying down an Icy Terrain and hoping enemy players will hop and stay in it just as mobs would do. Or charge a MoC or sudden storm and expect that that enemy HR will just wait for it without moving as any ranged mob. Your entire optimal PvE power set might be completely useless in PvP.
O you say this new mysterious matchmaking system will fix all. It didn't work on preview and the devs already said it will be behind the scenes. So lets just add a bunch of pvp stats to pvp gear so you have no choice but to carry two sets of gear and heaven forbid you don't like the changes.
Take what we give you and like it or we will penalize your from playing group content. After all its an MMO and you are ruining it for others.
but a lot matches are decided within the first minute.
what if someone is in the losing team and doesn`t manage to get the required +-375 points.
even while all are still in the match.
the number of 3 or less players seems also a bit too low to be penalty free.
should be 4.
doesn`t need explaning, but just it must be someones free will to keep play a 4vs5
or it`s forced afk.
lot of scenarios, but the 3 or less is a bit too much.
and you still can. its just gonna cost ya. Fair enough if you think of it. You get to leave because its a waste of your time. And you get pen. for wasting others time. See everyone gets something ....yea im trollin my *** off hahaha
So I intend to ignore this tenacity gear as such. As I hope will many others. With the - lets call it ELO - system in place I should meet mostly either players with my attitude or players with PvP gear but little skill, right?
So only the "I must rule in PvP" girls and boys will be effected by the new gear. Is this right?
Sounds as if someone that is only after the glory they should wear level 5 gear while queuing, then put on 15k GS gear to steamroll the others?
I am looking forward to matchmaking ... we will see the outcome soon!
I hope it is not tied to GS score (if not locked upon queuing for pvp), it would be a terrible design. It should be a win/loss based score, so hardcore pvpers will skyrocket to the top while casual players like me will stay low and hopefully achieve something next to a 1:1 win/loss ratio (my current ratio as a casual pvper is something like 15 losses for 2 wins).
I've not seen anything so far that indicates that a complete overhaul of Gauntlgrym is happening or the addition of new and varied 5 man arenas. From what I can see, an added layer of uselessness is being added to the existing problem with nothing to address the current issues.
I enjoy the fights in pvp, but currently Gauntlgrym is one large horse race with little to no fighting because the layout of the map is so bad. What could be a very enjoyable battle is reduced to tedium. Likewise, doing the same 2 maps over and over again for the 5 man arena is dull. These are things the Devs should be working on changing, not adding another useless layer to an already broken system.
As a 17k GS pvp geared and spec'd CW I LOVE pvp'ing solo. It's the highlight of my day. Nothing funner than stomping perma-fails, and gwfs. They give me the most QQ's and rage quits. I mean, a CW is not supposed to stomp them like that
Typical pug fight is over in 10 min. typical premade v premade <equal teams> 40min to 90min PER match.
I don't give free glory. EARN IT !! I have already proven to people over and over, the majority of pugs don't want glory, they want to stomp opponents. How do u prove this? easily. Run a premade, let the other team 3 cap and gain 300 glory, THEN stomp them into oblivion. Guess what, 3-5 always immediately leave after we retake the 3 points. It's even funnier when a premade rage quits another premade.
I am gonna be in PVP heaven when this patch goes through.. WOOOOOT!!!!!
Can we, poor newbie wizards, have any info on gear and tactics, maybe and guide how to deal with those pesky TR's and GWF's!
Poor soul didnt have time to log out.
Personal win v loss is worthless because you very well may have 16k gs people surrounded by 5k gs people.... (yes it happens to me. I get a decent amount of kills while the rest of my team gets murdered. its bs) Will i get credit for this in a good way? Nope. A gs based system would make it to where people would at least get a better match up. Its not just the lower gs people that are getting screw in the current system. So geared people do try the randomness of pugs. (i do) It would be nice to fight and fight with people in the same gear lvl or close to. To me the only people who would not like a gs system are 1. those who have not geared up and hope for the geared to que up with them. 2. the geared people that enjoy murdering people in green gear.....
can i please have some of the happy juice your drinking o.O. What your speaking of is a like an act of congress lol. For one most premades will have at least 2 gwfs. (you wont get up....ever unless they suck badly) ohhhh or the new thing thats going 2 gwf's 1 gf 1 tr and a dc...... yea lol (now if by some chance you do get up "prone city" lashing will be waiting..... So look lets be realistic lol In terms of balance the CW has gotten the short end of the stick in pvp. But ehh im not in denial lol and yea im 16.3 with blues 17.3 with all epics (dont really do much for my build running all epics in pvp). I agree with you on rallying a team. However you have to have something to rally. If your surround by 5-8k gs people and your fighting a geared premade its not going to happen. Even if they suck its not going to happen. Which is why i don't like the new changes because it really has done nothing to address that. Make the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> fair. A gs system would do that. People that want to do pvp on their alts they have not geared would get to fight others just doing dailies. People wanting to get a 15k gs+ team together would fight people of that caliber or close to. Hell a separate que for premades even would be nice. But ehh im dreaming ....
there won`t be anything based on gs.
GS is quite nonsensical, has an erratic behaviour, and you can easily find a way to fool it, it doesn't represent correctly the "strength" of a player (a highly geared but unexperienced pvp player will still get steamrolled by skilled players).
While occasionally, especially in the first days or so of the new matchmaking, you will find "good" players and "bad" players mixed while the system is tuning, in the long run you won't find yourself often in such parties, as hardcore players will tend to win (and go up in score) while casual players, despite occasional victory by being in a good party, will on average stay low in score.
I wouldn't be too sure about this..The main reason ( I'm sure you are quite skilled) you roflstomp is due to your GS against low gs toons..With matchmaking coming up, and the nerfs to cc, you wont be stomping on 8k gs gwf anymore ( or for long )..