Wrong on so many levels. I primarily PvP alone and I can tell you that at least half of my matches people quit the very instant they get killed the first time. It's like they only enjoy PvP if they are completely rolling the opposing team. That or they are just there to farm the artifact and right now the fastest way to do that is to just leave any game your team doesn't instantly start winning and **** everyone else who is there to actually fight other players and not easy as hell scripted encounters.
Whats the point in having a leaver penalty if people are just going to sit there and do nothing. Also why would the leader get affected more, its totally random
I like that match making is going to change though.
The point is they can't just requeue until they get into a winning match. I don't give a **** if you stand by the campfire, at least you're not just wasting everyone else's time, but your own also. Bottom line is, if you're quitting out of PvP matches, you're a tool. PvE HAMSTER get butthurt when people leave their dungeons midway through, so why do PvE players think it's ok to quit PvP matches and screw their team over?
thanks for sharing. although the page/vid doesn`t contain much realitic things.
penalties won`t improve gameplay for example.
maybe for a super small part so people make coffee before or after queue.
most just leave because it doesn`t go very well and/or dont care enough about it and uh some have a life that interferes ;p can`t nerf that.
so using the words "greatly improve" isn`t coming into my ears hehe.
i wonder how the gs is going to be part of the matchmaking while perfect enchants still don`t count as gs.
also like to know how much gs is going to count in the matchmaking, if it`s too much it would mean no matter how much you win you`ll always be a lowbee with low gs, even if you`re so good in playing it.
0
pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2014
All the leaver penalty will achieve in my personal case is that I'll never pug any longer, and always run in 4-5 groups of people that are guaranteed to know their role and will do what they are supposed to do. You know, elementary stuff such as:
- having decent gear
- having fast mount
- running to mid at start, maybe cap home if one is asked
- backcapping
- stepping on points and dying if necessary
Pugging is these days half the PvP I do, because I think going in with more than 2 people heavily imbalances the game 90% of the times. This will stop completely, since I won't be able to leave matches when I'm basically facing geared team with fully newbie team of my own, and all the geared guys follow me on the map like there's no tomorrow piling up prones and dailies, or not able to leave when all the pugs go home and stay there contemplating the skies on their nice horsies and so on.
So yeah. Implement this penalty as it is now-->welcome to the world of full PMs all time, all day every day.
This will stop completely, since I won't be able to leave matches when I'm basically facing geared team with fully newbie team of my own, and all the geared guys follow me on the map like there's no tomorrow piling up prones and dailies, or not able to leave when all the pugs go home and stay there contemplating the skies on their nice horsies and so on.
Except it won't happen. Not in the long run, maybe in the first few days.
Premades who pwn pugs will see their Elo rating skyrocket, and will eventually find only other, similar premades as opponents. Or VERY good puggers (those 18k+ GS one man armies).
The only premades you will find as a pugger, *if the matchmaking works correctly*, are those that are so bad they get always defeated by other premades and fall in ranking.
Well, I haven't been playing at all lately, bu still check updates every week.
My instinct is to hate everything, but I'll have some faith in the new mechanics. The only thing I really don't like are penalties. That's not the way to go, you don't punish people for wanting to leave, you create a situation where they don't want to leave.
I leave pvp matches often enough, when I meet a team way over geared than me or my team are beginners and it's clear that we'll lose, or when there are bots in the team, or idles, I leave, cause the effort to maintain a 15/20 min match to gain a scrap of glory is not worth it. Yeah yeah, play for fun, I find it fun to fufill objectives, gather glory, make a collection, buy artifact... This game is already time and money consuming enough for me to worry about other people fun, its not like I'm doing something bad to them like scamming, I'm just sparing me of time waste.
If the reward difference between winning and losing was smaller my ego wouldn't be motive to quit.
Except it won't happen. Not in the long run, maybe in the first few days.
Premades who pwn pugs will see their Elo rating skyrocket, and will eventually find only other, similar premades as opponents. Or VERY good puggers (those 18k+ GS one man armies).
The only premades you will find as a pugger, *if the matchmaking works correctly*, are those that are so bad they get always defeated by other premades and fall in ranking.
there might be lvl 60 twinks ;p
if i get fed up by losing a lot or playing in matchmaking things where i`m not happy in because i want higher but can`t get higher because i only pug, i`ll go twink.
meaning, leaving before end of match even with penalty gaining no rating or what so ever.
having enough ad won`t make me play for glory.
and while i won`t be able to progress on my own as lonely pugger, i just as well skip the matchmaking and twink.
but.. in that case it would be good to let gs count haha in the matchmaking, unless i decide to make a low gs build with perfect enchants and play for fun without gaining anything.
could even make 2 of those or more to completely avoid the penalty system if it isn`t account wide.
1vs1 would be more interesting
No offense, but I think you missed the point about the penalty then. There will be no reasons to leave anymore with the new matchmaking. You'll be facing a reasonable challenge instead of getting stomped all over the place. Nor will you be stuck with beginners if you prove you're better. That's where the ranking system should kick in. In short, the penalty is there to prevent people who wanna be carried to glory to leave and repug until they get carried. If you don't want to work for your glory and leave anyway, THEN you'll get a penalty. And you deserve it.
i`m not going to expect that,
it stays a pug ;p
and depending on how populair the rating thing is you`ll find more premades.
also in mid levels.
someone being not so good could be carried willing or unwilling by others to higher levels,
see it a lot, people playing like they re just new to the game and also still not know how rewards work.
not talking about a few.
i guess for queue puggers it won`t change much.
if i get fed up by losing a lot or playing in matchmaking things where i`m not happy in because i want higher but can`t get higher because i only pug, i`ll go twink.
meaning, leaving before end of match even with penalty gaining no rating or what so ever.
having enough ad won`t make me play for glory.
and while i won`t be able to progress on my own as lonely pugger, i just as well skip the matchmaking and twink.
What do you mean "progress on your own"? Progress in what? Ranking? Elo score? You want higher what? Higher challenge? The better you play and the more you win, the harder opponents you will find. On the opposite, if you can't win, your score will go down and you will eventually find "softer" players.
There is no real progress, as being at the top of the ranking won't get you more glory or AD than staying low (as you will always find equally challenging opponents).
that sounds like what`s the plan, but not going to happen that well in random queue as explained.
and if you played a bit you should have noticed a team exists out of good and bad players mostly.
but all of them will be pulled up in ranking if win, resulting in.. does it even need more explaining ;p
just watch what will happen.
the afk part will grow instead of leavers, which make you also gain score or lose, depending on that.
so with about an avarage of 50% or whatever your ranking stays the same, drop, rise. depending on people who are willing to play and seeing the benefit/use of it.
it `s just too dependent on others in queue.
can go on type like this, but no matter if you understand it or not,(timewaste). we `ll see what happens.
if people play for glory they re still not going to waste effort on a losing game, because winreward=double the lose reward, and timebased. so 1 hour playing 15 minute wins equals 2 hours playing lost games.
anything beyond 15 minutes is even a bigger timewaste. no extra rewards after that. timer runs, doesn`t stop. but the rewards stop at 15 minutes. it`s the rewardcap.
i just know it`ll be so random that it won`t matter ranking/gs or not, non premade queue users will stay the same
unless you re superawesome unbelieveble good so when you get 4 of those that were pulled up by others and still win.
and the pawning still stays in those levels if 5 of them meet in the lucky draw of the que system.
or 3 with 2 less ones. or 2 with 3 lesser ones vs 5 lesser ones.etc.
Well, your position will not vary by much in a single game, so if you are a bad player but you occasionally win (because others in your team did well, or the opponents were even worse than you), you will go a little up, but your good luck will end soon.
If you are a good player, and you are too good for your current score, on average you will tend to win (you might occasionally have very bad players on your team, but also very good ones, it's random). You will not win every single game, but you will win more than you lose and go up in score.
The same if you are a bad player, you might sometimes win, but on average you will lose more.
no nvm, you still don`t get it we`ll see what happens when it`s there hehehe.
theres just a wall you hit somewhere where you can`t go higher in random queue.
which makes you stay in a certain category ;p
guess like that it`s easiest to understand.
same category probably where newbies who get pulled up by others end up in.
have to be experienced with rating systems to understand or just know the result of random.
especialy with 5 players, there`s no prediction, just random stuf. kind of like we have now except the premade hardcore players will be removed from that part.
people think it`s premade too much already, but it`s mostly just luck of the draw or no luck.
there is a lot of speculation about how all of the new systems will work together as we haven't had the opportunity to see it all in action. because of this, it would seem they are still ironing out some of the kinks like what gentlemancrush mentioned in the official tenacity feedback thread recently. we do know that tenacity, elo matchmaking and leaver penalties are coming as well as new pvp sets and some balance changes. hopefully a new comprehensive build will arrive on the preview shard soon.
I"m not entirely sure, but I think I saw some new environments. There was no talk about it, but some parts of that video looked new to me. Or maybe I'm just a newbie who hasn't been everywhere yet (quite possible).
There were a couple of shots of what looked like the entry into Dread legion skirmish area , the bit where the cut scene as you enter , It seems weird to show a skirmish area in a otherwise completely pvp related video , I wonder if that was a sly sneak peek of a new pvp map or just there to show off the TR armor if that is the new TR armor set
I agree with whoever said that these new changes will be a total failure.
What will be implemented.
PvP Leaver Penalty effects:
You will not be able to queue for any queueable content for 30 minutes. This includes other Domination matches, Gauntlgrym, skirmishes and dungeons.
When they decide to screw up do completely, do not leave the job half done is what it seems.
The contents of PvP and PvE are completely separate and even punish players in PvE by entering PvP, I can only call it a stupid idea.
Here are my ideas of a player who has played many years countless types of MMOs:
When the player leaves a match will receive a debuff for 10~20min while the debuff is active the player will receive a decrease in glory points received of -20% if the player leaves another match while the debuff is active the time is reseted and the decrease in glory points will be doubled, and so on.
While the debuff is active PvP daily quests will not count, this means that while the player is penalized the PvP daily quests can not be completed.
Another alternative would be to apply to the player who left match a "Penalty Victory/Loyalty", and what would that be? The player who left a fight would be penalized with a debuff victory/loyalty it the player would need to win or participate in a game until the end of a contrary the player could not finish the PvP daily quests.
In additional option number 3, the player who was on the effect of "Penalty Victory/Loyalty" make the periodic event that increases the points of glory idle until the penalties was removed.
When they decide to screw up do completely, do not leave the job half done is what it seems.
The contents of PvP and PvE are completely separate and even punish players in PvE by entering PvP, I can only call it a stupid idea.
The thing is there are also many people abandon a pvp match for DD, GG events. Like you said "do not leave the job half done", if people decided to join pvp, they should stick with it until the end.
I think the bottom line on this is when League of Legends hit the scene they set a bar for anti-griefer so high that anything that used to look adequate no longer looks up to standard.
You can't even report players in this game that I can tell. Let alone any automated system to sort out the abusers to flag them for customer service attention.
Conclusion: what might have looked like aggressive policing in 2005 looks like half measures in 2014.
Anyone have any notion of what the cost of tenacity gear will be. It looks like it will be in glory but that might just be my impression and what i want to know is will i be able to buy a set with 25k glory or will i have to endure playing it to get all the t2 sets
Anyone have any notion of what the cost of tenacity gear will be. It looks like it will be in glory but that might just be my impression and what i want to know is will i be able to buy a set with 25k glory or will i have to endure playing it to get all the t2 sets
25k glory will be enough for a full baseline PvP set. For the higher end ones you are looking at 25k for the chest piece alone, but from what I can see in the preview shard the GF's Conqueror PvP gear is virtually on par with the PvE Timeless Hero gear (I assume this will be the same for all classes), PLUS it has Tenacity so it is dual purpose armour. With that in mind grinding PvP for the high end PvP gear may well be worthwhile.
Also, the fact that match-making may address the balance issues means glory-gain for undergeared/new/unskilled players will be easier than before.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
1)A premade vs Preamde queue because premades want to play premades.
2)A pug vs pug queue because pugs like to fight pugs.
Instead we get a whole lot of stuff no one even asked for that looks like it might possible mess everything up.
The GWF needed a nerf to sent build only for PVP that is all.Instead we get healing depression for everyone and tenacity.
after all that on the test shard the GWF is still same old same old OP.
Just think what it would be like with a working elo system PLUS a pre vs pre que and pug vs pug queue.
man we would have some happy campers.
And the leaver penalty is worthless if we can just stand by the fire.
whats really messed up is 5 equally matched pugs fighting equally match premades is a lop sided fight.no matter any match making system.
Pre vs pre queue ~ pug vs pug queue Is it really that hard???
I like Cryptic and what they have now may not work so well but I trust these guys will fix things until it does work.
So in the end Im guessing everything will work out great and possibly better than any of us ever expected.
1)A premade vs Preamde queue because premades want to play premades.
2)A pug vs pug queue because pugs like to fight pugs.
Instead we get a whole lot of stuff no one even asked for that looks like it might possible mess everything up.
The GWF needed a nerf to sent build only for PVP that is all.Instead we get healing depression for everyone and tenacity.
after all that on the test shard the GWF is still same old same old OP.
Just think what it would be like with a working elo system PLUS a pre vs pre que and pug vs pug queue.
man we would have some happy campers.
Well to be fair tenacity allows them to let power creep advance in pve gear without getting into situations where pvp is settled by the first person to attack, and while we weren't there yet, we would get there eventually. Tenacity is probably more of a long term solution to problems that would eventually pop up in pvp the way the game is set up.
Comments
The point is they can't just requeue until they get into a winning match. I don't give a **** if you stand by the campfire, at least you're not just wasting everyone else's time, but your own also. Bottom line is, if you're quitting out of PvP matches, you're a tool. PvE HAMSTER get butthurt when people leave their dungeons midway through, so why do PvE players think it's ok to quit PvP matches and screw their team over?
thanks for sharing. although the page/vid doesn`t contain much realitic things.
penalties won`t improve gameplay for example.
maybe for a super small part so people make coffee before or after queue.
most just leave because it doesn`t go very well and/or dont care enough about it and uh some have a life that interferes ;p can`t nerf that.
so using the words "greatly improve" isn`t coming into my ears
i wonder how the gs is going to be part of the matchmaking while perfect enchants still don`t count as gs.
also like to know how much gs is going to count in the matchmaking, if it`s too much it would mean no matter how much you win you`ll always be a lowbee with low gs, even if you`re so good in playing it.
- having decent gear
- having fast mount
- running to mid at start, maybe cap home if one is asked
- backcapping
- stepping on points and dying if necessary
Pugging is these days half the PvP I do, because I think going in with more than 2 people heavily imbalances the game 90% of the times. This will stop completely, since I won't be able to leave matches when I'm basically facing geared team with fully newbie team of my own, and all the geared guys follow me on the map like there's no tomorrow piling up prones and dailies, or not able to leave when all the pugs go home and stay there contemplating the skies on their nice horsies and so on.
So yeah. Implement this penalty as it is now-->welcome to the world of full PMs all time, all day every day.
Except it won't happen. Not in the long run, maybe in the first few days.
Premades who pwn pugs will see their Elo rating skyrocket, and will eventually find only other, similar premades as opponents. Or VERY good puggers (those 18k+ GS one man armies).
The only premades you will find as a pugger, *if the matchmaking works correctly*, are those that are so bad they get always defeated by other premades and fall in ranking.
My instinct is to hate everything, but I'll have some faith in the new mechanics. The only thing I really don't like are penalties. That's not the way to go, you don't punish people for wanting to leave, you create a situation where they don't want to leave.
I leave pvp matches often enough, when I meet a team way over geared than me or my team are beginners and it's clear that we'll lose, or when there are bots in the team, or idles, I leave, cause the effort to maintain a 15/20 min match to gain a scrap of glory is not worth it. Yeah yeah, play for fun, I find it fun to fufill objectives, gather glory, make a collection, buy artifact... This game is already time and money consuming enough for me to worry about other people fun, its not like I'm doing something bad to them like scamming, I'm just sparing me of time waste.
If the reward difference between winning and losing was smaller my ego wouldn't be motive to quit.
there might be lvl 60 twinks ;p
if i get fed up by losing a lot or playing in matchmaking things where i`m not happy in because i want higher but can`t get higher because i only pug, i`ll go twink.
meaning, leaving before end of match even with penalty gaining no rating or what so ever.
having enough ad won`t make me play for glory.
and while i won`t be able to progress on my own as lonely pugger, i just as well skip the matchmaking and twink.
but.. in that case it would be good to let gs count haha in the matchmaking, unless i decide to make a low gs build with perfect enchants and play for fun without gaining anything.
could even make 2 of those or more to completely avoid the penalty system if it isn`t account wide.
1vs1 would be more interesting
i`m not going to expect that,
it stays a pug ;p
and depending on how populair the rating thing is you`ll find more premades.
also in mid levels.
someone being not so good could be carried willing or unwilling by others to higher levels,
see it a lot, people playing like they re just new to the game and also still not know how rewards work.
not talking about a few.
i guess for queue puggers it won`t change much.
What do you mean "progress on your own"? Progress in what? Ranking? Elo score? You want higher what? Higher challenge? The better you play and the more you win, the harder opponents you will find. On the opposite, if you can't win, your score will go down and you will eventually find "softer" players.
There is no real progress, as being at the top of the ranking won't get you more glory or AD than staying low (as you will always find equally challenging opponents).
and if you played a bit you should have noticed a team exists out of good and bad players mostly.
but all of them will be pulled up in ranking if win, resulting in.. does it even need more explaining ;p
just watch what will happen.
the afk part will grow instead of leavers, which make you also gain score or lose, depending on that.
so with about an avarage of 50% or whatever your ranking stays the same, drop, rise. depending on people who are willing to play and seeing the benefit/use of it.
it `s just too dependent on others in queue.
can go on type like this, but no matter if you understand it or not,(timewaste). we `ll see what happens.
if people play for glory they re still not going to waste effort on a losing game, because winreward=double the lose reward, and timebased. so 1 hour playing 15 minute wins equals 2 hours playing lost games.
anything beyond 15 minutes is even a bigger timewaste. no extra rewards after that. timer runs, doesn`t stop. but the rewards stop at 15 minutes. it`s the rewardcap.
i just know it`ll be so random that it won`t matter ranking/gs or not, non premade queue users will stay the same
unless you re superawesome unbelieveble good so when you get 4 of those that were pulled up by others and still win.
and the pawning still stays in those levels if 5 of them meet in the lucky draw of the que system.
or 3 with 2 less ones. or 2 with 3 lesser ones vs 5 lesser ones.etc.
If you are a good player, and you are too good for your current score, on average you will tend to win (you might occasionally have very bad players on your team, but also very good ones, it's random). You will not win every single game, but you will win more than you lose and go up in score.
The same if you are a bad player, you might sometimes win, but on average you will lose more.
theres just a wall you hit somewhere where you can`t go higher in random queue.
which makes you stay in a certain category ;p
guess like that it`s easiest to understand.
same category probably where newbies who get pulled up by others end up in.
have to be experienced with rating systems to understand or just know the result of random.
especialy with 5 players, there`s no prediction, just random stuf. kind of like we have now except the premade hardcore players will be removed from that part.
people think it`s premade too much already, but it`s mostly just luck of the draw or no luck.
there is a lot of speculation about how all of the new systems will work together as we haven't had the opportunity to see it all in action. because of this, it would seem they are still ironing out some of the kinks like what gentlemancrush mentioned in the official tenacity feedback thread recently. we do know that tenacity, elo matchmaking and leaver penalties are coming as well as new pvp sets and some balance changes. hopefully a new comprehensive build will arrive on the preview shard soon.
There were a couple of shots of what looked like the entry into Dread legion skirmish area , the bit where the cut scene as you enter , It seems weird to show a skirmish area in a otherwise completely pvp related video , I wonder if that was a sly sneak peek of a new pvp map or just there to show off the TR armor if that is the new TR armor set
What will be implemented. When they decide to screw up do completely, do not leave the job half done is what it seems.
The contents of PvP and PvE are completely separate and even punish players in PvE by entering PvP, I can only call it a stupid idea.
Here are my ideas of a player who has played many years countless types of MMOs:
The thing is there are also many people abandon a pvp match for DD, GG events. Like you said "do not leave the job half done", if people decided to join pvp, they should stick with it until the end.
You can't even report players in this game that I can tell. Let alone any automated system to sort out the abusers to flag them for customer service attention.
Conclusion: what might have looked like aggressive policing in 2005 looks like half measures in 2014.
25k glory will be enough for a full baseline PvP set. For the higher end ones you are looking at 25k for the chest piece alone, but from what I can see in the preview shard the GF's Conqueror PvP gear is virtually on par with the PvE Timeless Hero gear (I assume this will be the same for all classes), PLUS it has Tenacity so it is dual purpose armour. With that in mind grinding PvP for the high end PvP gear may well be worthwhile.
Also, the fact that match-making may address the balance issues means glory-gain for undergeared/new/unskilled players will be easier than before.
Will people in my "ignore" list be able to the assigned to my party?
They might be on ignore for a reason ...
1)A premade vs Preamde queue because premades want to play premades.
2)A pug vs pug queue because pugs like to fight pugs.
Instead we get a whole lot of stuff no one even asked for that looks like it might possible mess everything up.
The GWF needed a nerf to sent build only for PVP that is all.Instead we get healing depression for everyone and tenacity.
after all that on the test shard the GWF is still same old same old OP.
Just think what it would be like with a working elo system PLUS a pre vs pre que and pug vs pug queue.
man we would have some happy campers.
And the leaver penalty is worthless if we can just stand by the fire.
whats really messed up is 5 equally matched pugs fighting equally match premades is a lop sided fight.no matter any match making system.
Pre vs pre queue ~ pug vs pug queue Is it really that hard???
I like Cryptic and what they have now may not work so well but I trust these guys will fix things until it does work.
So in the end Im guessing everything will work out great and possibly better than any of us ever expected.