all nice, in some cases that penalty thing.
but a lot matches are decided within the first minute.
what if someone is in the losing team and doesn`t manage to get the required +-375 points.
even while all are still in the match.
the number of 3 or less players seems also a bit too low to be penalty free.
should be 4.
doesn`t need explaning, but just it must be someones free will to keep play a 4vs5
or it`s forced afk.
lot of scenarios, but the 3 or less is a bit too much.
LOL? Does the arena/dungeon have your name on it? NO.
I'll make this short.
We're living in reality, not a drama. I don't give a flying eff about your ethics. As long as I feel that it's wasting my time or whatever reason I like, I'll hit the O button, then click on LEAVE INSTANCE without hesitating for a split second.
Makes perfect sense to you?
and you still can. its just gonna cost ya. Fair enough if you think of it. You get to leave because its a waste of your time. And you get pen. for wasting others time. See everyone gets something ....yea im trollin my *** off hahaha
So lets just add a bunch of pvp stats to pvp gear so you have no choice but to carry two sets of gear and heaven forbid you don't like the changes.
As my inventory is limited by 5 bags I don't have much space to waste.
So I intend to ignore this tenacity gear as such. As I hope will many others. With the - lets call it ELO - system in place I should meet mostly either players with my attitude or players with PvP gear but little skill, right?
So only the "I must rule in PvP" girls and boys will be effected by the new gear. Is this right?
Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
Based on the info that's being released so far, it looks like a combination of GS combined with a personal win/loss ratio. I'm not sure about the attitude of the players, but the resistance you face from the other team should be about equal to the treat your team possesses to them. So when either your personal rank or your gear goes up, your opponents grow with you. Some players will grow in gear faster than in ranking, others might grow in personal ranking only and don't bother with the gear.
Sounds as if someone that is only after the glory they should wear level 5 gear while queuing, then put on 15k GS gear to steamroll the others?
I am looking forward to matchmaking ... we will see the outcome soon!
Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
Sounds as if someone that is only after the glory they should wear level 5 gear while queuing, then put on 15k GS gear to steamroll the others?
I am looking forward to matchmaking ... we will see the outcome soon!
I hope it is not tied to GS score (if not locked upon queuing for pvp), it would be a terrible design. It should be a win/loss based score, so hardcore pvpers will skyrocket to the top while casual players like me will stay low and hopefully achieve something next to a 1:1 win/loss ratio (my current ratio as a casual pvper is something like 15 losses for 2 wins).
To me the idea of match making and Tenacity and penalties for leaving mean absolutely nothing if the fundamental flaw of the NW PvP content is not addressed. Namely the lack of it.
I've not seen anything so far that indicates that a complete overhaul of Gauntlgrym is happening or the addition of new and varied 5 man arenas. From what I can see, an added layer of uselessness is being added to the existing problem with nothing to address the current issues.
I enjoy the fights in pvp, but currently Gauntlgrym is one large horse race with little to no fighting because the layout of the map is so bad. What could be a very enjoyable battle is reduced to tedium. Likewise, doing the same 2 maps over and over again for the 5 man arena is dull. These are things the Devs should be working on changing, not adding another useless layer to an already broken system.
To me the idea of match making and Tenacity and penalties for leaving mean absolutely nothing if the fundamental flaw of the NW PvP content is not addressed. Namely the lack of it.
I've not seen anything so far that indicates that a complete overhaul of Gauntlgrym is happening or the addition of new and varied 5 man arenas. From what I can see, an added layer of uselessness is being added to the existing problem with nothing to address the current issues.
+1 on this from me. And this makes leaving a match even easier. Especially the GG situation. Yes, I am Luskan and intend to stay Luskan.
Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
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frost168Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
It dont. because the good and bad are still rated off what their team does. Guess what that means? If you suck then you not going to get a premade. Trust me as sure as i know mmos. The elite will not loose this battle. You have 1000 points of *** kicking to look foward to unless you want to quit and take the pen. I'm not being a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> just being honest. As a 16.3 pvp geared cw im sure as hell not doing it without a premade. Its pointless. So yea i welcome the changes as well. gives me more time to play other games when my friends are not on :-)
As a 17k GS pvp geared and spec'd CW I LOVE pvp'ing solo. It's the highlight of my day. Nothing funner than stomping perma-fails, and gwfs. They give me the most QQ's and rage quits. I mean, a CW is not supposed to stomp them like that It's a blast to rally your pug team to stand tall against a premade or semi-premade. Most will stay simply because they know with me being there, they have a chance and will listen to my directions. I don't just stomp pugs, I try and teach those on my team how to play. Pugging is more fun than fighting against top premades all day. If I can't get accused of running hacks and cheats at least once a day, I feel unfulfilled
Typical pug fight is over in 10 min. typical premade v premade <equal teams> 40min to 90min PER match.
I don't give free glory. EARN IT !! I have already proven to people over and over, the majority of pugs don't want glory, they want to stomp opponents. How do u prove this? easily. Run a premade, let the other team 3 cap and gain 300 glory, THEN stomp them into oblivion. Guess what, 3-5 always immediately leave after we retake the 3 points. It's even funnier when a premade rage quits another premade.
I am gonna be in PVP heaven when this patch goes through.. WOOOOOT!!!!!
The whole "tenacity" stat just feels like a "wookie defense" to me. Meaning we don't want to address some of the class imbalances and instead would like to throw in this new "stat" to confuse and hide behind. We don't need stats to hide behind. Quality matchmaking with some logic around classes, GS and win/losses would be outstanding.
As a 17k GS pvp geared and spec'd CW I LOVE pvp'ing solo. It's the highlight of my day. Nothing funner than stomping perma-fails, and gwfs. They give me the most QQ's and rage quits. I mean, a CW is not supposed to stomp them like that It's a blast to rally your pug team to stand tall against a premade or semi-premade. Most will stay simply because they know with me being there, they have a chance and will listen to my directions. I don't just stomp pugs, I try and teach those on my team how to play. Pugging is more fun than fighting against top premades all day. If I can't get accused of running hacks and cheats at least once a day, I feel unfulfilled
Typical pug fight is over in 10 min. typical premade v premade <equal teams> 40min to 90min PER match.
I don't give free glory. EARN IT !! I have already proven to people over and over, the majority of pugs don't want glory, they want to stomp opponents. How do u prove this? easily. Run a premade, let the other team 3 cap and gain 300 glory, THEN stomp them into oblivion. Guess what, 3-5 always immediately leave after we retake the 3 points. It's even funnier when a premade rage quits another premade.
I am gonna be in PVP heaven when this patch goes through.. WOOOOOT!!!!!
Can we, poor newbie wizards, have any info on gear and tactics, maybe and guide how to deal with those pesky TR's and GWF's!
[10:49] [Combat (Self)] Your Proton Barrage deals 96581 (43411) Proton(Critical) to Seto.
Poor soul didnt have time to log out.
I hope it is not tied to GS score (if not locked upon queuing for pvp), it would be a terrible design. It should be a win/loss based score, so hardcore pvpers will skyrocket to the top while casual players like me will stay low and hopefully achieve something next to a 1:1 win/loss ratio (my current ratio as a casual pvper is something like 15 losses for 2 wins).
Personal win v loss is worthless because you very well may have 16k gs people surrounded by 5k gs people.... (yes it happens to me. I get a decent amount of kills while the rest of my team gets murdered. its bs) Will i get credit for this in a good way? Nope. A gs based system would make it to where people would at least get a better match up. Its not just the lower gs people that are getting screw in the current system. So geared people do try the randomness of pugs. (i do) It would be nice to fight and fight with people in the same gear lvl or close to. To me the only people who would not like a gs system are 1. those who have not geared up and hope for the geared to que up with them. 2. the geared people that enjoy murdering people in green gear.....
As a 17k GS pvp geared and spec'd CW I LOVE pvp'ing solo. It's the highlight of my day. Nothing funner than stomping perma-fails, and gwfs. They give me the most QQ's and rage quits. I mean, a CW is not supposed to stomp them like that It's a blast to rally your pug team to stand tall against a premade or semi-premade. Most will stay simply because they know with me being there, they have a chance and will listen to my directions. I don't just stomp pugs, I try and teach those on my team how to play. Pugging is more fun than fighting against top premades all day. If I can't get accused of running hacks and cheats at least once a day, I feel unfulfilled
Typical pug fight is over in 10 min. typical premade v premade <equal teams> 40min to 90min PER match.
I don't give free glory. EARN IT !! I have already proven to people over and over, the majority of pugs don't want glory, they want to stomp opponents. How do u prove this? easily. Run a premade, let the other team 3 cap and gain 300 glory, THEN stomp them into oblivion. Guess what, 3-5 always immediately leave after we retake the 3 points. It's even funnier when a premade rage quits another premade.
I am gonna be in PVP heaven when this patch goes through.. WOOOOOT!!!!!
can i please have some of the happy juice your drinking o.O. What your speaking of is a like an act of congress lol. For one most premades will have at least 2 gwfs. (you wont get up....ever unless they suck badly) ohhhh or the new thing thats going 2 gwf's 1 gf 1 tr and a dc...... yea lol (now if by some chance you do get up "prone city" lashing will be waiting..... So look lets be realistic lol In terms of balance the CW has gotten the short end of the stick in pvp. But ehh im not in denial lol and yea im 16.3 with blues 17.3 with all epics (dont really do much for my build running all epics in pvp). I agree with you on rallying a team. However you have to have something to rally. If your surround by 5-8k gs people and your fighting a geared premade its not going to happen. Even if they suck its not going to happen. Which is why i don't like the new changes because it really has done nothing to address that. Make the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> fair. A gs system would do that. People that want to do pvp on their alts they have not geared would get to fight others just doing dailies. People wanting to get a 15k gs+ team together would fight people of that caliber or close to. Hell a separate que for premades even would be nice. But ehh im dreaming ....
I guess the only resolution is to lose on purpose for the first week or so. Then after that you might get some decent matches in place if your not an uber geared 16k pvp gamer.
Personal win v loss is worthless because you very well may have 16k gs people surrounded by 5k gs people.... (yes it happens to me. I get a decent amount of kills while the rest of my team gets murdered. its bs) Will i get credit for this in a good way? Nope. A gs based system would make it to where people would at least get a better match up. Its not just the lower gs people that are getting screw in the current system. So geared people do try the randomness of pugs. (i do) It would be nice to fight and fight with people in the same gear lvl or close to. To me the only people who would not like a gs system are 1. those who have not geared up and hope for the geared to que up with them. 2. the geared people that enjoy murdering people in green gear.....
GS is quite nonsensical, has an erratic behaviour, and you can easily find a way to fool it, it doesn't represent correctly the "strength" of a player (a highly geared but unexperienced pvp player will still get steamrolled by skilled players).
While occasionally, especially in the first days or so of the new matchmaking, you will find "good" players and "bad" players mixed while the system is tuning, in the long run you won't find yourself often in such parties, as hardcore players will tend to win (and go up in score) while casual players, despite occasional victory by being in a good party, will on average stay low in score.
As a 17k GS pvp geared and spec'd CW I LOVE pvp'ing solo. It's the highlight of my day. Nothing funner than stomping perma-fails, and gwfs. They give me the most QQ's and rage quits. I mean, a CW is not supposed to stomp them like that It's a blast to rally your pug team to stand tall against a premade or semi-premade. Most will stay simply because they know with me being there, they have a chance and will listen to my directions. I don't just stomp pugs, I try and teach those on my team how to play. Pugging is more fun than fighting against top premades all day. If I can't get accused of running hacks and cheats at least once a day, I feel unfulfilled
Typical pug fight is over in 10 min. typical premade v premade <equal teams> 40min to 90min PER match.
I don't give free glory. EARN IT !! I have already proven to people over and over, the majority of pugs don't want glory, they want to stomp opponents. How do u prove this? easily. Run a premade, let the other team 3 cap and gain 300 glory, THEN stomp them into oblivion. Guess what, 3-5 always immediately leave after we retake the 3 points. It's even funnier when a premade rage quits another premade.
I am gonna be in PVP heaven when this patch goes through.. WOOOOOT!!!!!
I wouldn't be too sure about this..The main reason ( I'm sure you are quite skilled) you roflstomp is due to your GS against low gs toons..With matchmaking coming up, and the nerfs to cc, you wont be stomping on 8k gs gwf anymore ( or for long )..
What you said makes no sense o.O. I do not like killing people that are lower gs....kinda the point of why i want a gs system. makes sense? And im not sure of your skill either because your like the only cw i know that thinks it can **** gwfs none stop o.O. But thats neither here nor there lol. If you just stand at the back and run i dont really call that skill XD But ehh im sure we will meet in a match. Hope it will be fun! :-D
see already gs fairytales developing in this thread, get that out of your head.
there won`t be anything based on gs.
Sounds like something your more afraid of then you should be. But whatever. Enjoy fighting premades :-). The only way to really have a high rating. cheap and cheesy huh? And we know people don't ever take that route in this game ......
GS is quite nonsensical, has an erratic behaviour, and you can easily find a way to fool it, it doesn't represent correctly the "strength" of a player (a highly geared but unexperienced pvp player will still get steamrolled by skilled players).
While occasionally, especially in the first days or so of the new matchmaking, you will find "good" players and "bad" players mixed while the system is tuning, in the long run you won't find yourself often in such parties, as hardcore players will tend to win (and go up in score) while casual players, despite occasional victory by being in a good party, will on average stay low in score.
I think you have to bare in mind. that my thoughts are just that. And that there is no perfect solution. As with anything there are always ways around it. The goal is an improvement. If there are holes fill them in as you go. Wins and losses does not rep skill either. I could be a crappy cw running with 4 over geared gwfs... odds of me loosing a match? low very low. The only way to make that kind a think work is that if it were based on individual performance and that appears to be to much to ask for. Im not looking for an elitist system im just looking for one that people are actually able to have fun with. Elo was designed as a personal rating not a group rating ( love chess). The system is a good idea but at some point it needs to incorporate personal stats (kill/deaths/heals/ bases captured/etc) see where im going with this? That way if a good player is on a not so good team they still have accomplished something. The idea of winning and loosing being the only method is far to short sighted.
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frost168Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
can i please have some of the happy juice your drinking o.O. What your speaking of is a like an act of congress lol. For one most premades will have at least 2 gwfs. (you wont get up....ever unless they suck badly) ohhhh or the new thing thats going 2 gwf's 1 gf 1 tr and a dc...... yea lol (now if by some chance you do get up "prone city" lashing will be waiting..... So look lets be realistic lol In terms of balance the CW has gotten the short end of the stick in pvp. But ehh im not in denial lol and yea im 16.3 with blues 17.3 with all epics (dont really do much for my build running all epics in pvp). I agree with you on rallying a team. However you have to have something to rally. If your surround by 5-8k gs people and your fighting a geared premade its not going to happen. Even if they suck its not going to happen. Which is why i don't like the new changes because it really has done nothing to address that. Make the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> fair. A gs system would do that. People that want to do pvp on their alts they have not geared would get to fight others just doing dailies. People wanting to get a 15k gs+ team together would fight people of that caliber or close to. Hell a separate que for premades even would be nice. But ehh im dreaming ....
Due to "naming and shaming" and overzealous moderators, I can't even begin to give specifics without this being deleted. So. Will have to start off with the odds of running into a "pro" premade while pugging. There are very few top pvp'ers left, let alone playing and yes we will have to distinguish the difference between those premades. The majority of premades running when I play <5pm est -midnight est> are not top pvp teams, there are only a handful of those remaining. So skill level drops off immensely. Gear does not mean as much as understanding game mechanics of each class. < I do not mean utilizing "glitching"> If u understand what spells the other class uses, how they effect said toon, and and idea of recharge speed, ect., this will balance any fight in your favor. Too many "premades" just mash buttons and hope they kill something.
I am not in full epics. I use a pvp build, which entails blue jewelry that is spec'd for my build giving me a tilted balance again in my favor based on what I need to do, to kill say a GWF. If you are not a top GWF <and there aren't many out there anymore playing> I really have little to no fear of fighting you. So I would say 8 out of 10 matches that I pug are not against upper end players or premades of worth. Even I can't pug vs a top pvp premade and expect to win the match, but I will enjoy it regardless, even if it's just asking for 1 v 1's. I run into these very infrequently when pugging. So, pugging, is still enjoyable. There are fights in pug matches I can't get in premade v premade. Premades are trying to "win" the match by outscoring their opponents. When I pug, I am going for kill count, and kill count only. I am rushing point two, when the rest of my team runs to our point, simply to fight 3-5 people. I'm a pvp'er, dying means nothing to me, but going 5 v 1 and killing one or two of them, that is my win. And when the other team is fully focused on attempting to kill me, this allows my pugs open combat and less of a chance that any of them will be "pug stomped". They just follow me around and feel safe.
I do not feel the same way about CW's as most do. I think we are vastly over powered compared to what people think. Do I win 1 v 1's against all gwf and permas ? NO. Do I lose them all? nope. Do I get killed in 5 seconds ? nope. What I do have is a decent understanding of my class, and the other classes. I have no fear of dying in pvp, and I just love it to death.
As for the patch, I run very little CC or should I say, I don't have to, to be effective in what I do. I PvP. I don't care about shield, and don't need to use repel. I can still fight without using meatball. Choke? doesn't last long now, and I really only care about it for what it does for my build, not the actual choke <other than nullifying another cw's meatball> Chill? I'm not oppressor build, so what do I care if chill no longer works. Won't effect me much from that stand point. I won't even get into tenacity and the new pvp gear, tons of comments and videos on that. So it comes down to match making with the ello system. <long pause here due to my 5 min laughing fit>
See ya'll in pvp
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frost168Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I wouldn't be too sure about this..The main reason ( I'm sure you are quite skilled) you roflstomp is due to your GS against low gs toons..With matchmaking coming up, and the nerfs to cc, you wont be stomping on 8k gs gwf anymore ( or for long )..
GS means nothing in pvp. I can swap out to my blue set < and do frequently > when pugging to drop my GS immensely. This has been stated over and over by the top pvp community. If you think GS means something, watch the dev videos many have supplied from test shard. All I do is pvp here. I don't pve. I think I have done maybe 5 dungeons total in almost a year of playing. And no, I didnt' "buy" or p2w" Way to easy to make AD in this game without resorting to buying zen.
My previous post states what I think of CC nerf in the upcoming patch. But keep this in mind, as much as people think I will be nerfed, and that tenacity is going to hurt me, Guess what. YOU face the same thing against me And I have been on test server trying it out and have a good idea of how I will change my build and gear accordingly. What I don't know, is exactly what will be changed, and what will not, until the patch is finalized. But what I can guarantee is, come 4-4-2014 <minus the 5 day head start>, I will no longer be here, as most of the remaining top pvper's. So that alone will change the pvp landscape drastically.
GS means nothing in pvp. I can swap out to my blue set < and do frequently > when pugging to drop my GS immensely. This has been stated over and over by the top pvp community. If you think GS means something, watch the dev videos many have supplied from test shard. All I do is pvp here. I don't pve. I think I have done maybe 5 dungeons total in almost a year of playing. And no, I didnt' "buy" or p2w" Way to easy to make AD in this game without resorting to buying zen.
My previous post states what I think of CC nerf in the upcoming patch. But keep this in mind, as much as people think I will be nerfed, and that tenacity is going to hurt me, Guess what. YOU face the same thing against me And I have been on test server trying it out and have a good idea of how I will change my build and gear accordingly. What I don't know, is exactly what will be changed, and what will not, until the patch is finalized. But what I can guarantee is, come 4-4-2014 <minus the 5 day head start>, I will no longer be here, as most of the remaining top pvper's. So that alone will change the pvp landscape drastically.
I know this is off topic but for some reason i just really want to see this cw o.O. I might learn something o.O and I am so **** tired of hearing that gs means nothing. that is bs to the fullest...... there is a hell of a difference between wearing green gear and epic.....so i dont know why you would even say something thats not true. And yes i am aware there are people who would try to exploit the system just as they do with everything else in the game. So? Hell from the way you speak you very well might be one of them. But i see it this way. Its a start. Not perfect but a start. And a hell of a lot better than "did you win or loose" because honestly some of the funnest matches i have ever had were losses. Did everyone work hard? heck yea! So ohh wait we didnt win so...... we get nothing? naaw thats fail. no matter how you look at it its fail.
I only care for the daily when it comes to the regular pvp.
I have found myself leaving now more than ever though. unbalanced teams for one, 2 hrs and 2 trs/cws on the same team as me. Thats a fail team right there. At least that is my experience with the previously mentioned party setup, and I have yet to have won a pvp match. and main reason, unbalanced classes.
I can understand as CWs want to stay at range, and so do most HRs. So that leaves me either DC or HR to hold point vs tanks (Gf/GEFs), Trs, Hrs, Cws concentrating one me? No thank you. So i leave/quit the match.
This quitting penalty is lame, and because of the party setup that happens players will still quit matches, i know i will penalty or not. the penalty will not discourage me at all.
I am also not advocating, a required PvP party setup, that would be all kinds of wrong. but the underlining facts of a certain class/build being ovepowered still screws players over.
Just seems to me there is some sort of pride thing going on at pwe/cryptic, they are too proud to admit they fudged things up. Instead they add duct tape to a problem that just causes more problems.
Fix the real problem with class balancing and none of this would have been a problem.
There is no such thing as Pleather Armor.
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frost168Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I know this is off topic but for some reason i just really want to see this cw o.O. I might learn something o.O and I am so **** tired of hearing that gs means nothing. that is bs to the fullest...... there is a hell of a difference between wearing green gear and epic.....so i dont know why you would even say something thats not true. And yes i am aware there are people who would try to exploit the system just as they do with everything else in the game. So? Hell from the way you speak you very well might be one of them. But i see it this way. Its a start. Not perfect but a start. And a hell of a lot better than "did you win or loose" because honestly some of the funnest matches i have ever had were losses. Did everyone work hard? heck yea! So ohh wait we didnt win so...... we get nothing? naaw thats fail. no matter how you look at it its fail.
Hehe. I"m not saying it means absolutely nothing, but if u consider how cheap and easy it is to obtain blue gear, both armors and jewelry, as well as rank 5 enchants, there is no reason the majority of the people you face in pvp shouldn't have a minimum amount of GS. Unlike dungeons, pvp has no GS check which allows bots and "poorly/non geared" alts in a match. I do not find this to be the majority, but yes, I do run across them. Most of the people I face have a decent GS. Most in pvp are also pve spec'd and use pve skills during pvp.
a Quick glance in my estimation, at any given time, 50% of the people in pvp are simply there to get their daily or farm some glory and leave. They have no intention of actually participating in pvp.
of the remaining 50% I'd break it down like this.
10% actual pvp'ers. Decently to well geared, skill level will vary. what we call premades, or OP's running in pugs.
30% pvper's either on alts, or trying to pvp with what they have. they are not top geared or perhaps they do not have high enchants, but still want to pvp and have some fun. They have adequate skills and basic pvp understanding.
the remaining 10% are wannabees. They try to pvp in their pve specs perhaps their cookie cutter pvp spec, have limited knowledge of pvp and are the first to QQ. They read a guide that said the build was OP, yet they can't seem to get it to work. Most are well geared, they simply do not understand the game mechanics. They tend to be perma rogues, meat-balling mages, or the flavor of the day.
Most of the time, around 8pm est, there are over 100 pvp matches going on. A quick look and knowing the top pvp guilds, there are what at most maybe 10 matches with these at most I'd say 20 top pvp groups. which is probably pushing it as some are pugging. Leaving 180 other groups you could possibly run up against at any given time. The over all pvp ability is quite low. There is a huge gap between the top 10% and the rest of the field which is why I say, in the hands of the top 10%, GS really doesn't mean as much as people think. That top 10% would still own most, with much less GS scores. On the other hand, adding high GS to most of the low pvp'ers, will not make them good. While GS does play a role in pvp, skill is what separates most.
Hehe. I"m not saying it means absolutely nothing, but if u consider how cheap and easy it is to obtain blue gear, both armors and jewelry, as well as rank 5 enchants, there is no reason the majority of the people you face in pvp shouldn't have a minimum amount of GS. Unlike dungeons, pvp has no GS check which allows bots and "poorly/non geared" alts in a match. I do not find this to be the majority, but yes, I do run across them. Most of the people I face have a decent GS. Most in pvp are also pve spec'd and use pve skills during pvp.
a Quick glance in my estimation, at any given time, 50% of the people in pvp are simply there to get their daily or farm some glory and leave. They have no intention of actually participating in pvp.
of the remaining 50% I'd break it down like this.
10% actual pvp'ers. Decently to well geared, skill level will vary. what we call premades, or OP's running in pugs.
30% pvper's either on alts, or trying to pvp with what they have. they are not top geared or perhaps they do not have high enchants, but still want to pvp and have some fun. They have adequate skills and basic pvp understanding.
the remaining 10% are wannabees. They try to pvp in their pve specs perhaps their cookie cutter pvp spec, have limited knowledge of pvp and are the first to QQ. They read a guide that said the build was OP, yet they can't seem to get it to work. Most are well geared, they simply do not understand the game mechanics. They tend to be perma rogues, meat-balling mages, or the flavor of the day.
Most of the time, around 8pm est, there are over 100 pvp matches going on. A quick look and knowing the top pvp guilds, there are what at most maybe 10 matches with these at most I'd say 20 top pvp groups. which is probably pushing it as some are pugging. Leaving 180 other groups you could possibly run up against at any given time. The over all pvp ability is quite low. There is a huge gap between the top 10% and the rest of the field which is why I say, in the hands of the top 10%, GS really doesn't mean as much as people think. That top 10% would still own most, with much less GS scores. On the other hand, adding high GS to most of the low pvp'ers, will not make them good. While GS does play a role in pvp, skill is what separates most.
Plz give some of us credit..when we say GS matters, we are assuming both are skilled players, i.e knowledgeable of their class and that of there opponent. . If you say you can regularly ( hell even 1 out of 4 ) kill a skilled GWF in 1 vs 1, that are +/- 2k gs, then i'll call BS or post a vid..However, I agree that in 5 vs 5 DOMINATION, a group of skilled players PLAYING as a team can overcome such obstacles
Comments
but a lot matches are decided within the first minute.
what if someone is in the losing team and doesn`t manage to get the required +-375 points.
even while all are still in the match.
the number of 3 or less players seems also a bit too low to be penalty free.
should be 4.
doesn`t need explaning, but just it must be someones free will to keep play a 4vs5
or it`s forced afk.
lot of scenarios, but the 3 or less is a bit too much.
and you still can. its just gonna cost ya. Fair enough if you think of it. You get to leave because its a waste of your time. And you get pen. for wasting others time. See everyone gets something ....yea im trollin my *** off hahaha
So I intend to ignore this tenacity gear as such. As I hope will many others. With the - lets call it ELO - system in place I should meet mostly either players with my attitude or players with PvP gear but little skill, right?
So only the "I must rule in PvP" girls and boys will be effected by the new gear. Is this right?
Sounds as if someone that is only after the glory they should wear level 5 gear while queuing, then put on 15k GS gear to steamroll the others?
I am looking forward to matchmaking ... we will see the outcome soon!
I hope it is not tied to GS score (if not locked upon queuing for pvp), it would be a terrible design. It should be a win/loss based score, so hardcore pvpers will skyrocket to the top while casual players like me will stay low and hopefully achieve something next to a 1:1 win/loss ratio (my current ratio as a casual pvper is something like 15 losses for 2 wins).
I've not seen anything so far that indicates that a complete overhaul of Gauntlgrym is happening or the addition of new and varied 5 man arenas. From what I can see, an added layer of uselessness is being added to the existing problem with nothing to address the current issues.
I enjoy the fights in pvp, but currently Gauntlgrym is one large horse race with little to no fighting because the layout of the map is so bad. What could be a very enjoyable battle is reduced to tedium. Likewise, doing the same 2 maps over and over again for the 5 man arena is dull. These are things the Devs should be working on changing, not adding another useless layer to an already broken system.
As a 17k GS pvp geared and spec'd CW I LOVE pvp'ing solo. It's the highlight of my day. Nothing funner than stomping perma-fails, and gwfs. They give me the most QQ's and rage quits. I mean, a CW is not supposed to stomp them like that
Typical pug fight is over in 10 min. typical premade v premade <equal teams> 40min to 90min PER match.
I don't give free glory. EARN IT !! I have already proven to people over and over, the majority of pugs don't want glory, they want to stomp opponents. How do u prove this? easily. Run a premade, let the other team 3 cap and gain 300 glory, THEN stomp them into oblivion. Guess what, 3-5 always immediately leave after we retake the 3 points. It's even funnier when a premade rage quits another premade.
I am gonna be in PVP heaven when this patch goes through.. WOOOOOT!!!!!
Can we, poor newbie wizards, have any info on gear and tactics, maybe and guide how to deal with those pesky TR's and GWF's!
Poor soul didnt have time to log out.
Personal win v loss is worthless because you very well may have 16k gs people surrounded by 5k gs people.... (yes it happens to me. I get a decent amount of kills while the rest of my team gets murdered. its bs) Will i get credit for this in a good way? Nope. A gs based system would make it to where people would at least get a better match up. Its not just the lower gs people that are getting screw in the current system. So geared people do try the randomness of pugs. (i do) It would be nice to fight and fight with people in the same gear lvl or close to. To me the only people who would not like a gs system are 1. those who have not geared up and hope for the geared to que up with them. 2. the geared people that enjoy murdering people in green gear.....
can i please have some of the happy juice your drinking o.O. What your speaking of is a like an act of congress lol. For one most premades will have at least 2 gwfs. (you wont get up....ever unless they suck badly) ohhhh or the new thing thats going 2 gwf's 1 gf 1 tr and a dc...... yea lol (now if by some chance you do get up "prone city" lashing will be waiting..... So look lets be realistic lol In terms of balance the CW has gotten the short end of the stick in pvp. But ehh im not in denial lol and yea im 16.3 with blues 17.3 with all epics (dont really do much for my build running all epics in pvp). I agree with you on rallying a team. However you have to have something to rally. If your surround by 5-8k gs people and your fighting a geared premade its not going to happen. Even if they suck its not going to happen. Which is why i don't like the new changes because it really has done nothing to address that. Make the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> fair. A gs system would do that. People that want to do pvp on their alts they have not geared would get to fight others just doing dailies. People wanting to get a 15k gs+ team together would fight people of that caliber or close to. Hell a separate que for premades even would be nice. But ehh im dreaming ....
there won`t be anything based on gs.
GS is quite nonsensical, has an erratic behaviour, and you can easily find a way to fool it, it doesn't represent correctly the "strength" of a player (a highly geared but unexperienced pvp player will still get steamrolled by skilled players).
While occasionally, especially in the first days or so of the new matchmaking, you will find "good" players and "bad" players mixed while the system is tuning, in the long run you won't find yourself often in such parties, as hardcore players will tend to win (and go up in score) while casual players, despite occasional victory by being in a good party, will on average stay low in score.
I wouldn't be too sure about this..The main reason ( I'm sure you are quite skilled) you roflstomp is due to your GS against low gs toons..With matchmaking coming up, and the nerfs to cc, you wont be stomping on 8k gs gwf anymore ( or for long )..
Sounds like something your more afraid of then you should be. But whatever. Enjoy fighting premades :-). The only way to really have a high rating. cheap and cheesy huh? And we know people don't ever take that route in this game ......
I think you have to bare in mind. that my thoughts are just that. And that there is no perfect solution. As with anything there are always ways around it. The goal is an improvement. If there are holes fill them in as you go. Wins and losses does not rep skill either. I could be a crappy cw running with 4 over geared gwfs... odds of me loosing a match? low very low. The only way to make that kind a think work is that if it were based on individual performance and that appears to be to much to ask for. Im not looking for an elitist system im just looking for one that people are actually able to have fun with. Elo was designed as a personal rating not a group rating ( love chess). The system is a good idea but at some point it needs to incorporate personal stats (kill/deaths/heals/ bases captured/etc) see where im going with this? That way if a good player is on a not so good team they still have accomplished something. The idea of winning and loosing being the only method is far to short sighted.
Due to "naming and shaming" and overzealous moderators, I can't even begin to give specifics without this being deleted. So. Will have to start off with the odds of running into a "pro" premade while pugging. There are very few top pvp'ers left, let alone playing and yes we will have to distinguish the difference between those premades. The majority of premades running when I play <5pm est -midnight est> are not top pvp teams, there are only a handful of those remaining. So skill level drops off immensely. Gear does not mean as much as understanding game mechanics of each class. < I do not mean utilizing "glitching"> If u understand what spells the other class uses, how they effect said toon, and and idea of recharge speed, ect., this will balance any fight in your favor. Too many "premades" just mash buttons and hope they kill something.
I am not in full epics. I use a pvp build, which entails blue jewelry that is spec'd for my build giving me a tilted balance again in my favor based on what I need to do, to kill say a GWF. If you are not a top GWF <and there aren't many out there anymore playing> I really have little to no fear of fighting you. So I would say 8 out of 10 matches that I pug are not against upper end players or premades of worth. Even I can't pug vs a top pvp premade and expect to win the match, but I will enjoy it regardless, even if it's just asking for 1 v 1's. I run into these very infrequently when pugging. So, pugging, is still enjoyable. There are fights in pug matches I can't get in premade v premade. Premades are trying to "win" the match by outscoring their opponents. When I pug, I am going for kill count, and kill count only. I am rushing point two, when the rest of my team runs to our point, simply to fight 3-5 people. I'm a pvp'er, dying means nothing to me, but going 5 v 1 and killing one or two of them, that is my win. And when the other team is fully focused on attempting to kill me, this allows my pugs open combat and less of a chance that any of them will be "pug stomped". They just follow me around and feel safe.
I do not feel the same way about CW's as most do. I think we are vastly over powered compared to what people think. Do I win 1 v 1's against all gwf and permas ? NO. Do I lose them all? nope. Do I get killed in 5 seconds ? nope. What I do have is a decent understanding of my class, and the other classes. I have no fear of dying in pvp, and I just love it to death.
As for the patch, I run very little CC or should I say, I don't have to, to be effective in what I do. I PvP. I don't care about shield, and don't need to use repel. I can still fight without using meatball. Choke? doesn't last long now, and I really only care about it for what it does for my build, not the actual choke <other than nullifying another cw's meatball> Chill? I'm not oppressor build, so what do I care if chill no longer works. Won't effect me much from that stand point. I won't even get into tenacity and the new pvp gear, tons of comments and videos on that. So it comes down to match making with the ello system. <long pause here due to my 5 min laughing fit>
See ya'll in pvp
GS means nothing in pvp. I can swap out to my blue set < and do frequently > when pugging to drop my GS immensely. This has been stated over and over by the top pvp community. If you think GS means something, watch the dev videos many have supplied from test shard. All I do is pvp here. I don't pve. I think I have done maybe 5 dungeons total in almost a year of playing. And no, I didnt' "buy" or p2w" Way to easy to make AD in this game without resorting to buying zen.
My previous post states what I think of CC nerf in the upcoming patch. But keep this in mind, as much as people think I will be nerfed, and that tenacity is going to hurt me, Guess what. YOU face the same thing against me
I know this is off topic but for some reason i just really want to see this cw o.O. I might learn something o.O and I am so **** tired of hearing that gs means nothing. that is bs to the fullest...... there is a hell of a difference between wearing green gear and epic.....so i dont know why you would even say something thats not true. And yes i am aware there are people who would try to exploit the system just as they do with everything else in the game. So? Hell from the way you speak you very well might be one of them. But i see it this way. Its a start. Not perfect but a start. And a hell of a lot better than "did you win or loose" because honestly some of the funnest matches i have ever had were losses. Did everyone work hard? heck yea! So ohh wait we didnt win so...... we get nothing? naaw thats fail. no matter how you look at it its fail.
I have found myself leaving now more than ever though. unbalanced teams for one, 2 hrs and 2 trs/cws on the same team as me. Thats a fail team right there. At least that is my experience with the previously mentioned party setup, and I have yet to have won a pvp match. and main reason, unbalanced classes.
I can understand as CWs want to stay at range, and so do most HRs. So that leaves me either DC or HR to hold point vs tanks (Gf/GEFs), Trs, Hrs, Cws concentrating one me? No thank you. So i leave/quit the match.
This quitting penalty is lame, and because of the party setup that happens players will still quit matches, i know i will penalty or not. the penalty will not discourage me at all.
I am also not advocating, a required PvP party setup, that would be all kinds of wrong. but the underlining facts of a certain class/build being ovepowered still screws players over.
Just seems to me there is some sort of pride thing going on at pwe/cryptic, they are too proud to admit they fudged things up. Instead they add duct tape to a problem that just causes more problems.
Fix the real problem with class balancing and none of this would have been a problem.
Hehe. I"m not saying it means absolutely nothing, but if u consider how cheap and easy it is to obtain blue gear, both armors and jewelry, as well as rank 5 enchants, there is no reason the majority of the people you face in pvp shouldn't have a minimum amount of GS. Unlike dungeons, pvp has no GS check which allows bots and "poorly/non geared" alts in a match. I do not find this to be the majority, but yes, I do run across them. Most of the people I face have a decent GS. Most in pvp are also pve spec'd and use pve skills during pvp.
a Quick glance in my estimation, at any given time, 50% of the people in pvp are simply there to get their daily or farm some glory and leave. They have no intention of actually participating in pvp.
of the remaining 50% I'd break it down like this.
10% actual pvp'ers. Decently to well geared, skill level will vary. what we call premades, or OP's running in pugs.
30% pvper's either on alts, or trying to pvp with what they have. they are not top geared or perhaps they do not have high enchants, but still want to pvp and have some fun. They have adequate skills and basic pvp understanding.
the remaining 10% are wannabees. They try to pvp in their pve specs perhaps their cookie cutter pvp spec, have limited knowledge of pvp and are the first to QQ. They read a guide that said the build was OP, yet they can't seem to get it to work. Most are well geared, they simply do not understand the game mechanics. They tend to be perma rogues, meat-balling mages, or the flavor of the day.
Most of the time, around 8pm est, there are over 100 pvp matches going on. A quick look and knowing the top pvp guilds, there are what at most maybe 10 matches with these at most I'd say 20 top pvp groups. which is probably pushing it as some are pugging. Leaving 180 other groups you could possibly run up against at any given time. The over all pvp ability is quite low. There is a huge gap between the top 10% and the rest of the field which is why I say, in the hands of the top 10%, GS really doesn't mean as much as people think. That top 10% would still own most, with much less GS scores. On the other hand, adding high GS to most of the low pvp'ers, will not make them good. While GS does play a role in pvp, skill is what separates most.
Plz give some of us credit..when we say GS matters, we are assuming both are skilled players, i.e knowledgeable of their class and that of there opponent. . If you say you can regularly ( hell even 1 out of 4 ) kill a skilled GWF in 1 vs 1, that are +/- 2k gs, then i'll call BS or post a vid..However, I agree that in 5 vs 5 DOMINATION, a group of skilled players PLAYING as a team can overcome such obstacles