I do not want this change to go live in it's current state. However, I am willing to hold off on the vitriol and wait for an "official" response. I suggest that everyone continue to make their views known (whether for or against) but please refrain from needless speculation on motive. Wait for the official word. THEN we can rage if rage is called for.
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited November 2013
What's really lame is *if* it is an intended change (and the tooltips are right buggered in the current build), your login loyalty reward is that every seven days, you get to shorten the Sharandar grind by all of three days. And if you're troubling yourself to log in to invoke, you might as well take the five minutes to go get some sparks if you're still working on Sharandar.
Assuming the coffers continue to not bind, you could transfer them to your baby characters to blow through it as quickly as you can amass enough blades. And when you run out of characters who haven't done Sharandar, you can sell them. And then? Absolutely useless trash.
Which is why I don't think *that* particular item is meant to make it to live, unless there's a long-term plan to rotate in a campaign-shortening item for the previous campaign every time they introduce a new one. It's not logical.
I do not want this change to go live in it's current state. However, I am willing to hold off on the vitriol and wait for an "official" response. I suggest that everyone continue to make their views known (whether for or against) but please refrain from needless speculation on motive. Wait for the official word. THEN we can rage if rage is called for.
I felt the same way, Sunday when this issue went public. If they are still there, you can read my posts saying such. They've had plenty of time to clear this up but chose not to. How long are we suppose to wait? This is a deal-breaking issue for many people. Not some minor bug that they can put off for months.
Perfect enchants for all impacts EVERYONE in a negative way.
I'm just snipping a little of this to respond to because it's an interesting view, and I think false.
I actually wonder how it is you think perfect enchants are bad for 'everyone' to have.
Its a good thing to gear the casual crowd that have some skill but aren't yet 'there' with their gear.
A bad player will still be a bad player, they'll still suck. They can have all rank 10 enchants and perfect enchants, but if they don't have their head out of their fifth point of contact they're still not going to clear CN or Val's once it goes live. You have players like that now that can't clear without exploiting, who still suck, and have perfects/high rank enchants.
I've cleared everything except CN with my lesser vorpal and a few rank 7s. I used no coal wards beyond the one needed for my weapon enchant.
The coal wards are NEEDED for weapon enchants, I would like to see more people with the perfect enchants. It is still a long grind to get the weapon enchants, it still takes a fair bit of XP for the weapon enchants to level. More the better the enchant is. It will be a time/AH grind to get those enchants leveled.
If this goes live it's (in my opinion) a money grab, I don't like it and I've already bought enough from them. They don't need another cash sink that will actually turn the game to P2W instead of F2P.
This going live without alternatives for wards will decide if I stay or go.
I like the game, I wouldnt mind seeing another way to get sparks, but I do not like the idea of something this vital to gear upgrades suddenly being made unavailable for free, especially given how much money/time some players have sunk into trying to get this particular item to upgrade.
That all having been said, we know 'something' might change with the boxes for invokes. Those of us that feel strongly on it, well, we've made sure they realize we really don't like the idea of this change and want the boxes.
Now we wait for PWE/Cryptic to let us know what's going on.
If it's a fluke, it might have made it to live without someone spotting it on their invokes and screaming murder on it, there is a reason there is a test server.
If it's them looking at giving us another option for invokes on top of the box with coal wards, cool, we need to know so the panic 'the sky is falling' doesnt continue.
If it's a legit change they're considering, we've already given them a lot of angry we don't want it responses among other things. They know the player views on the change and can (at this point) reverse on it if they're going to. Much like they did on the cost for refine and upgrade on enchants. There is a reason we have a preview server. Its so we can see what's coming, experiment on it and let them know the good, bad, or ugly.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
/Channel_Join NW_Legit_Community to run Dungeons without the exploits
silence speaks volumes if your perception makes it into something that it's not. i'm not saying you can't give your feedback on this, but without any idea of what it is, you could just be wasting your time.
if i had to guess, he was trying to prevent this thread from getting out of control.
It can happen. Easily. This is a sensitive topic that affects a large portion of the playerbase and end-game content. It is a very effective transition from the 'free to play' model to the 'pay to win' model. It would have a massive affect on PvP, and a noticeable impact on high-end PvE players as well.
CM's are just doing their jobs. I get that. I also get it that this topic scares them. Because it can lead to a LOT of angry people.
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
this new coffer means alot more ad then the old one only that it requires gameplay time... just saying.
Now if a new method will be introduced for us to access Cwards through gameplay i really thing is a better way, there are alot of ways to do that and i;m 99% that this is what is going to happen.
Imo having 85 coal wards to make a perfect is ridiculous, and the only way to make it reasonable was to have people make armies of pray bots, and in that situation I think pray bots are a very good thing even though it rewards people who have all the pray bots while people who play the game content normally don't get as much reward. This new system reduces the amount of coal wards required for perfect enchantments by over 80%, and so there is less pray bots required and personally I'm glad that they plan on reducing the amount of coal wards used and reducing the benefits of creating 50+ praying toons because then people who play normally get rewarded best.
Still I think they ought to add some method of obtaining coal wards without zen store items. Maybe a very low chance of getting them in dungeon or skirmish chests, or at the very least in the ad vendor at 200-250k ad per in order to cap the price on coal wards obtained from tarmalune bars.
Value of Coalescent wards has already increased 27% in just 2 days and still increasing, an unprecedented rise post-beta. There's a remaining stock of less than 80 Coals in the AH.
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited November 2013
Moderator Notice:
. . . . . There's no need to continually repeat the argument of the Dev's not responding to this "issue." Please, just relax and wait for the Developers to respond. They will when they are able to. Further comments like this will be cause for Moderation. If you don't have something productive to add to the discussion of the "change," then please don't respond with off topic remarks, such as the developers not responding. Thanks!
- IF it's an intended change, it's a horrible idea.
- IF it's an intended change, the communities only moment of stopping it is now. Because after it goes live, the company has a track record of 'letting things slide'.
- IF it's an intended change, we should all alert more members of the community so that they, too, can come to the forums and express their discontent.
And if it's an accident, it's important that we, as the community, express our strong opposition to the whole concept. This isn't funny, and it's better to make sure that the developers understand that we ARE paying attention to the development of the game, and we DO care.
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
Value of Coalescent wards has already increased 27% in just 2 days and still increasing, an unprecedented rise post-beta. There's a remaining stock of less than 80 Coals in the AH.
But I thought this change would be better and it would drive the prices down to 40k or something, at least that's what some of the NW economists have been saying in this thread.
I'm that last of my (small) guild that still logged in the last three days, everyone else took a break till module 2 with a "wait and see" attitude regarding this change. Gj everyone involved.
0
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
But I thought this change would be better and it would drive the prices down to 40k or something, at least that's what some of the NW economists have been saying in this thread.
I'm that last of my (small) guild that still logged in the last three days, everyone else took a break till module 2 with a "wait and see" attitude regarding this change. Gj everyone involved.
. . . . . Unless there is another way to gain Coalescent Wards, expect them to skyrocket. I'd like to see the Coffer of Wondrous Augmentation remain in the Celestial Coin shop as it has been and have this new Box just be a second 7-day reward choice.
Imho the best solution will be to remain the coffer as it is and lower the chance of a coalward to balance out the new demand / supply Ratio.
A number of people (probably a small minority, but their impact is likely disproportionate) would simply make all the more accounts to keep producing the same number of coals for sale, and for botters, this would be even easier.
It might be better if they just pegged the zen price of a coal ward to about the price we pay in the AH; e.g., about 250 Zen ea., which is about 100K AD at present. Or better, turn them into a literal AD sink and sell them in the wondrous bazaar for 100k AD. This would be awful for those who were depending on time and patience to get them via invokes, still.
Honestly, this feels like on of those third-rails; better just to leave it be than to touch it at all.
I dunno I can't stop thinking, maybe they will implemented new ways to get the ward, like the Dungeon Keys, after you finish the dungeon you will have % chance to get the ward from the chest, problem is the Key most probably cost AD.
- IF it's an intended change, it's a horrible idea.
- IF it's an intended change, the communities only moment of stopping it is now. Because after it goes live, the company has a track record of 'letting things slide'.
- IF it's an intended change, we should all alert more members of the community so that they, too, can come to the forums and express their discontent.
And if it's an accident, it's important that we, as the community, express our strong opposition to the whole concept. This isn't funny, and it's better to make sure that the developers understand that we ARE paying attention to the development of the game, and we DO care.
Exactly this.
I think a lot of us want the game to succeed and its a large part of why we're up at arms now, rather than waiting. They changed the cost for refines already, now hopefully they'll see a good reason to keep the current coffer and not give us only this new green one.
That said, to give a little of my opinion on the current cost of coals...
Before this came into view, I expected coals prior to the module to go up a little - the reason has everything to do with refining. Pre-Module 2 we have 4 shards to combine, no xp needed onto any shard. Use coal ward, get lesser from 4 shards of whatever enchantment.
Post module 2, get xp for shard, get 4 shards of whatever enchantment, get lesser. It still takes less for everything after the lesser to get the normal etc as far as the actual shards of it's type, and of the coal wards. But each shard -> lesser -> regular -> greater -> perfect needs to get xp.
After module 2, I expected coals to level out in price again. Until this came up.
Current price of coals may be getting influenced by a lot more than just this possible coffer change/addition.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
/Channel_Join NW_Legit_Community to run Dungeons without the exploits
But I thought this change would be better and it would drive the prices down to 40k or something, at least that's what some of the NW economists have been saying in this thread.
Speculators, anticipating a supply shortage, are buying them up, either for resale at anticipated higher prices, or for their own use. This price spike is not indicative of conditions (either price, or supply) post-module launch. It's just a run on the market.
The PWI info-fox formerly known as Mayfly - Dreamweaver
Actually, it does. Since they can only be bought in the Zen store, SOMEONE has to buy the Zen to put it in the AH. In other words, to get your perfect enchants, someone has to whip out the wallet for you regardless. Right now, no one has to (and I highly doubt anyone does) buy any from the Zen store to put it in the AH since it can be obtained elsewhere.
Could they not also come from zen purchased via AD from the market exchange? Unless that system is going as well, it will still be possible to obtain the wards without paying cash for them, though it would be much more bother than currently.
But I thought this change would be better and it would drive the prices down to 40k or something, at least that's what some of the NW economists have been saying in this thread.
I'm that last of my (small) guild that still logged in the last three days, everyone else took a break till module 2 with a "wait and see" attitude regarding this change. Gj everyone involved.
If the supply goes down and the demand stays constant, prices will increase on the item in question.
However, the system of making weapon and armour enchants is changing as well. Though the wards are still needed, they will not be needed as often as before as I understand it. This will cause demand to decrease.
Since supply would be going down at the same time demand will be decreasing, there is no way to accurately determine what will happen to the prices, so all price speculation being done in this thread has no basis or credibility.
As such, all price speculation in this thread is wild guessing of the results of a change that may not even be happening. I suggest that you don't put much weight on it.
Not really. This is less an issue about supply and demand. If the only way to now get coal wards is the zen store. Then they will now have a fixed minimum price. Demand can drive the price higher, but it will simply never be lower. The only real factor will be the Zen to AD exchange rate.
Considering that the exchange rate is hovering in the 380s. The days of 100k coals will be done. Expect 400k bare minimum regardless of demand. Simply because no one will resell these at a loss.
Aren't coalescent wards also available from the Tarmalune Trade Bar shop? Since the trade bars are the booby prize of the lockbox gamble boxes (as I understand it), people could buy wards for trade bars, and sell for under what the zen shop ward price would be in AD in order to recoup some of their key investment, even assuming people's worst fears come to pass.
The PWI info-fox formerly known as Mayfly - Dreamweaver
Aren't coalescent wards also available from the Tarmalune Trade Bar shop? Since the trade bars are the booby prize of the lockbox gamble boxes (as I understand it), people could buy wards for trade bars, and sell for under what the zen shop ward price would be in AD in order to recoup some of their key investment, even assuming people's worst fears come to pass.
price on bars is a little adjusted. If u watch 5 packs of Preservation is at the same price with a CWard.... also it takes you 10 boxes to gather 200 bars aprox.
Could they not also come from zen purchased via AD from the market exchange? Unless that system is going as well, it will still be possible to obtain the wards without paying cash for them, though it would be much more bother than currently.
The Zen cost of Coalescent Wards is insane. I seriously doubt that people are converting their AD to Zen to buy these when they could (at least under the current system) purchase them on the AH for AD for a fraction of the cost.
checkmatein3Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 525Arc User
edited November 2013
Posting here, not to rage or speculate, but to vote. Please take this post as a vote against any idea of removing the pathway of a free coal ward from the Celestial Coins. Thanks!
Comments
Assuming the coffers continue to not bind, you could transfer them to your baby characters to blow through it as quickly as you can amass enough blades. And when you run out of characters who haven't done Sharandar, you can sell them. And then? Absolutely useless trash.
Which is why I don't think *that* particular item is meant to make it to live, unless there's a long-term plan to rotate in a campaign-shortening item for the previous campaign every time they introduce a new one. It's not logical.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
I felt the same way, Sunday when this issue went public. If they are still there, you can read my posts saying such. They've had plenty of time to clear this up but chose not to. How long are we suppose to wait? This is a deal-breaking issue for many people. Not some minor bug that they can put off for months.
I actually wonder how it is you think perfect enchants are bad for 'everyone' to have.
Its a good thing to gear the casual crowd that have some skill but aren't yet 'there' with their gear.
A bad player will still be a bad player, they'll still suck. They can have all rank 10 enchants and perfect enchants, but if they don't have their head out of their fifth point of contact they're still not going to clear CN or Val's once it goes live. You have players like that now that can't clear without exploiting, who still suck, and have perfects/high rank enchants.
I've cleared everything except CN with my lesser vorpal and a few rank 7s. I used no coal wards beyond the one needed for my weapon enchant.
The coal wards are NEEDED for weapon enchants, I would like to see more people with the perfect enchants. It is still a long grind to get the weapon enchants, it still takes a fair bit of XP for the weapon enchants to level. More the better the enchant is. It will be a time/AH grind to get those enchants leveled.
If this goes live it's (in my opinion) a money grab, I don't like it and I've already bought enough from them. They don't need another cash sink that will actually turn the game to P2W instead of F2P.
This going live without alternatives for wards will decide if I stay or go.
I like the game, I wouldnt mind seeing another way to get sparks, but I do not like the idea of something this vital to gear upgrades suddenly being made unavailable for free, especially given how much money/time some players have sunk into trying to get this particular item to upgrade.
That all having been said, we know 'something' might change with the boxes for invokes. Those of us that feel strongly on it, well, we've made sure they realize we really don't like the idea of this change and want the boxes.
Now we wait for PWE/Cryptic to let us know what's going on.
If it's a fluke, it might have made it to live without someone spotting it on their invokes and screaming murder on it, there is a reason there is a test server.
If it's them looking at giving us another option for invokes on top of the box with coal wards, cool, we need to know so the panic 'the sky is falling' doesnt continue.
If it's a legit change they're considering, we've already given them a lot of angry we don't want it responses among other things. They know the player views on the change and can (at this point) reverse on it if they're going to. Much like they did on the cost for refine and upgrade on enchants. There is a reason we have a preview server. Its so we can see what's coming, experiment on it and let them know the good, bad, or ugly.
silence speaks volumes if your perception makes it into something that it's not. i'm not saying you can't give your feedback on this, but without any idea of what it is, you could just be wasting your time.
if i had to guess, he was trying to prevent this thread from getting out of control.
It can happen. Easily. This is a sensitive topic that affects a large portion of the playerbase and end-game content. It is a very effective transition from the 'free to play' model to the 'pay to win' model. It would have a massive affect on PvP, and a noticeable impact on high-end PvE players as well.
CM's are just doing their jobs. I get that. I also get it that this topic scares them. Because it can lead to a LOT of angry people.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
Now if a new method will be introduced for us to access Cwards through gameplay i really thing is a better way, there are alot of ways to do that and i;m 99% that this is what is going to happen.
Still I think they ought to add some method of obtaining coal wards without zen store items. Maybe a very low chance of getting them in dungeon or skirmish chests, or at the very least in the ad vendor at 200-250k ad per in order to cap the price on coal wards obtained from tarmalune bars.
. . . . . There's no need to continually repeat the argument of the Dev's not responding to this "issue." Please, just relax and wait for the Developers to respond. They will when they are able to. Further comments like this will be cause for Moderation. If you don't have something productive to add to the discussion of the "change," then please don't respond with off topic remarks, such as the developers not responding. Thanks!
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
- IF it's an intended change, it's a horrible idea.
- IF it's an intended change, the communities only moment of stopping it is now. Because after it goes live, the company has a track record of 'letting things slide'.
- IF it's an intended change, we should all alert more members of the community so that they, too, can come to the forums and express their discontent.
And if it's an accident, it's important that we, as the community, express our strong opposition to the whole concept. This isn't funny, and it's better to make sure that the developers understand that we ARE paying attention to the development of the game, and we DO care.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
But I thought this change would be better and it would drive the prices down to 40k or something, at least that's what some of the NW economists have been saying in this thread.
I'm that last of my (small) guild that still logged in the last three days, everyone else took a break till module 2 with a "wait and see" attitude regarding this change. Gj everyone involved.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
A number of people (probably a small minority, but their impact is likely disproportionate) would simply make all the more accounts to keep producing the same number of coals for sale, and for botters, this would be even easier.
It might be better if they just pegged the zen price of a coal ward to about the price we pay in the AH; e.g., about 250 Zen ea., which is about 100K AD at present. Or better, turn them into a literal AD sink and sell them in the wondrous bazaar for 100k AD. This would be awful for those who were depending on time and patience to get them via invokes, still.
Honestly, this feels like on of those third-rails; better just to leave it be than to touch it at all.
Exactly this.
I think a lot of us want the game to succeed and its a large part of why we're up at arms now, rather than waiting. They changed the cost for refines already, now hopefully they'll see a good reason to keep the current coffer and not give us only this new green one.
That said, to give a little of my opinion on the current cost of coals...
Before this came into view, I expected coals prior to the module to go up a little - the reason has everything to do with refining. Pre-Module 2 we have 4 shards to combine, no xp needed onto any shard. Use coal ward, get lesser from 4 shards of whatever enchantment.
Post module 2, get xp for shard, get 4 shards of whatever enchantment, get lesser. It still takes less for everything after the lesser to get the normal etc as far as the actual shards of it's type, and of the coal wards. But each shard -> lesser -> regular -> greater -> perfect needs to get xp.
After module 2, I expected coals to level out in price again. Until this came up.
Current price of coals may be getting influenced by a lot more than just this possible coffer change/addition.
Speculators, anticipating a supply shortage, are buying them up, either for resale at anticipated higher prices, or for their own use. This price spike is not indicative of conditions (either price, or supply) post-module launch. It's just a run on the market.
Could they not also come from zen purchased via AD from the market exchange? Unless that system is going as well, it will still be possible to obtain the wards without paying cash for them, though it would be much more bother than currently.
If the supply goes down and the demand stays constant, prices will increase on the item in question.
However, the system of making weapon and armour enchants is changing as well. Though the wards are still needed, they will not be needed as often as before as I understand it. This will cause demand to decrease.
Since supply would be going down at the same time demand will be decreasing, there is no way to accurately determine what will happen to the prices, so all price speculation being done in this thread has no basis or credibility.
As such, all price speculation in this thread is wild guessing of the results of a change that may not even be happening. I suggest that you don't put much weight on it.
Considering that the exchange rate is hovering in the 380s. The days of 100k coals will be done. Expect 400k bare minimum regardless of demand. Simply because no one will resell these at a loss.
price on bars is a little adjusted. If u watch 5 packs of Preservation is at the same price with a CWard.... also it takes you 10 boxes to gather 200 bars aprox.
The Zen cost of Coalescent Wards is insane. I seriously doubt that people are converting their AD to Zen to buy these when they could (at least under the current system) purchase them on the AH for AD for a fraction of the cost.
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