We could have an "Arcane Reservoir" type of quest for that coffer. So that will give us access to it but it will require a lvl 60 (dont see any reason why would anyone use them prior to lvl 60) and gameplay time. It will be the same for a normal player and will take care of abusers. With leadership at least u need to lvl it and do micromanagement but this coffer was free.
Now instead of the world will end behavior you could express legit concerns like: ok we have this but lessers are going to be extremely expensive. Think it took 20 pages for someone else to come and point that again.
Also new coffer is a really good source of ad for those who actually play the game.
With the new enchant system, you can unslot enchants using gold so you could effectively have R10s when you get access to your first piece of equipment to slot an enchant so limiting it to lvl 60 characters is unfair to new characters.
With the new enchant system, you can unslot enchants using gold so you could effectively have R10s when you get access to your first piece of equipment to slot an enchant so limiting it to lvl 60 characters is unfair to new characters.
How on Earth could you have R10s? Seems like everyone's here a billionaire with endless amount of wards and enchantments. From my 15 characters I've got zero coal wards yesterday, ZERO, second week in a row! And it takes me 4-7 tries to fuse 4 R5s into R6! And with the coffer removal I'd have to buy even green wards, and, according to their price, it'll be cheaper to just use coal wards instead of greens in general. So if the changes go live, I'll have to pay cash or wait someone to pay instead of me to have a chance to just TRY to make even R6 enchantment!
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
How on Earth could you have R10s? Seems like everyone's here a billionaire with endless amount of wards and enchantments. From my 15 characters I've got zero coal wards yesterday, ZERO, second week in a row! And it takes me 4-7 tries to fuse 4 R5s into R6! And with the coffer removal I'd have to buy even green wards, and, according to their price, it'll be cheaper to just use coal wards instead of greens in general. So if the changes go live, I'll have to pay cash or wait someone to pay instead of me to have a chance to just TRY to make even R6 enchantment!
I don't have any R10s, I am just saying someone who has R10s can easily move them to a new character. This was in response to another poster about a quest at lvl 60 for the coffer
How on Earth could you have R10s? Seems like everyone's here a billionaire with endless amount of wards and enchantments. From my 15 characters I've got zero coal wards yesterday, ZERO, second week in a row! And it takes me 4-7 tries to fuse 4 R5s into R6! And with the coffer removal I'd have to buy even green wards, and, according to their price, it'll be cheaper to just use coal wards instead of greens in general. So if the changes go live, I'll have to pay cash or wait someone to pay instead of me to have a chance to just TRY to make even R6 enchantment!
I play since the opeb beta and i have "only" rank seven enchantments/runestone. I had a big advantage in finding some coal wards in the coffers. The rate is approx 1 ward every 10-12 coffer so it is possible that you didnt find anything in 15 coffers. I bought some coal and i found some else. If they remove coffer there will be very less wards on the market and prices will go up a lot. We won't have the possibiliry to find them in coal and we couldnt afford the rised costs. As i wrote before: really no coal anymore for a lot of ppl.
Players who now are full of wards of course write here that remove coff it is a great idea couse after they can sell them for very high price and become more rich than now.
Again: remove coff is a big big damage for game qnd economy, will make the game declared p2w, will ruin any afford to make easier to rank up enchants introducing refinement system, will make unhappy a ton of players.
I really don't undetstand why remove coff if until now NOONE conplained about it. It work very well and renove it will help few rich against the mass of players. I still hope in a official answer that will make us free from this nightmare.
I play since the opeb beta and i have "only" rank seven enchantments/runestone. I had a big advantage in finding some coal wards in the coffers. The rate is approx 1 ward every 10-12 coffer so it is possible that you didnt find anything in 15 coffers.
I really don't undetstand why remove coff if until now NOONE conplained about it. It work very well and renove it will help few rich against the mass of players. I still hope in a official answer that will make us free from this nightmare.
I play since open beta too, took a break in summer (after that omg release with that lol Gauntlgrym), so yeah, I'm approve that approximately I get 1 coalescent ward per week. And I also have R7 enchants and runestones.
Noone complained about enchantment system too tho. Cryptic just didn't find it enough profitable.
And I still believe that this is just a bug.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
0
uurbsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 449Bounty Hunter
[...]
Noone complained about enchantment system too tho.
Yes, but the majority was not using it--and I tell you from experience in my guild. Therefore I do believe that Cryptic changed it, to make it more accessible.
I play since open beta too, took a break in summer (after that omg release with that lol Gauntlgrym), so yeah, I'm approve that approximately I get 1 coalescent ward per week. And I also have R7 enchants and runestones.
Noone complained about enchantment system too tho. Cryptic just didn't find it enough profitable.
And I still believe that this is just a bug.
If it was a bug wouldn't a mod move it into the bug reports subforum? Hmmm....
Please, not this game too! I played a lot of f2p games and it's always this way: they starts with a good balance between free and pay players, then after some months they suddenly change their policy and try to force people to buy stuff in every way. Allods losts like 90% of its players with one single patch years ago (I don't know what happened next, I left), and same for many other games.
I could accept this change only if:
- Coalescent Wards in the cash shop would pass from 1000 to 250 zen (250 zen are around 100k AD, so no price change in the end), and Preservation Wards to 10 AD (4K AD)
or
- There would be a new daily quest for preservation wards and a new weekly quest for coalescent wards.
If they will just remove the coffer and nothing else, I would probably keep playing this game till I can, but I SWEAR ON MY HONOR I WON'T SPEND A SINGLE $ ON IT ANYMORE.
The solution would be simple anyway: if what we fear happens, just let's EVERYBODY don't buy absolutely anything from the cash shop for 1-2 months. They will surely change the thing back. The problem is mmorpgs population is often too childish to do this (most of the people in those games can't force themselves to not buy what they want immediatly, it's incredible and kinda sad but true).
0
uurbsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 449Bounty Hunter
The price for 10 Preservation Wards in the Zen shop is already 100 Zen, so one already costs 10 Zen (around 3,900 ADs--and on a sidenote, that is cheaper than in the AH, most of the times).
Still no word, but official release date is on 12/5.
Q:Who has two thumbs and is starting to get concerned?
A:This guy!
Although I'm concerned I believe that the developers aren't stupid enough to put something so important and as fundamental to character development as high level enchantments and all weapon/armor enchantments behind a pay wall , that would be tantamount to this games suicide .
They said they will make a statement letting us know what is happening so I'll wait for that before I start freaking out lol.
0
tang56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Although I'm concerned I believe that the developers aren't stupid enough to put something so important and as fundamental to character development as high level enchantments and all weapon/armor enchantments behind a pay wall , that would be tantamount to this games suicide .
They said they will make a statement letting us know what is happening so I'll wait for that before I start freaking out lol.
I don't have your faith in Cryptic. I'm hoping that explanation arrives at the lastest by Monday and furthermore, that it is a satisfactory one.
RIP Neverwinter 26/06/2014
0
grogthemagnifMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,651Arc User
If this has been removed as a source of Coals, without the addition of a "free" time/chance based source, this will be a very significant change. If it has it would be just adding back in the AD sink they took out from upgrading. It would be a /facepalm moment.
The 7 Day Celestial reward was set up for all levels 11-60 to use immediately. The new Sharandar box is only good once you are level 60. That's a problem.
I propose:
Changing the name to Wondrous coffer which will offer
5 Mount retraining tokens where it takes 5 tokens to raise a common mount or companion to uncommon, 10 tokens to raise a mount or companion from uncommon to rare and 20 tokens to raise a mount or companion to epic with a 5-20% chance of occurring.
OR
Coalescent Ward 5-20% chance
OR
Tradebar Jackpot 5-10% chance
OR
10,000 Refined AD
I don't have your faith in Cryptic. I'm hoping that explanation arrives at the lastest by Monday and furthermore, that it is a satisfactory one.
This is my first Cryptic game so you probably have more experience with the company then me , the one thing we have on our side is that when the game was first released they made a solid commitment that this game would never be 'pay to win' .
This is no bug, bugs don't create brand new items out of no where so I seriously doubt thats the case. This is a plain and simple play for money move which sets a huge barrier between the haves and have nots. The reason behind the tight lips from the dev team is because They have yet to come up with a way to spin this to make it look good without loosing face. This is def a move from play casual to pay to get your enchants. I can be pretty shure this will go live givin the track record of cryptic/pwe just take a look at their other games slowly but surely NWO will become a pay to w game
But a bug could be linking the wrong item into the wrong place. This isn't a brand new item, it's just new as a 7 coin offering, not new to the game. Could be that they were trying to make it an optional 7 coin offering instead of THE 7 coin offering, and a bug is prohibiting the display of both options. So, yeah, it COULD be a bug.
you get them in the AH. at the same price as usual
People buy keys... getting 200 trade bars is easy. the price of wards will remain the same under the new system
You guys didn't farm wards through boxes. lets be real, you didn't get 80+ wards through invoking. How many years would that take to make just 1 perfect enchant? unless you have 30 accounts you didn't do this
To get a perfect enchant you either paid for it with real $ or you bought the enchant/most of the wards through the AH with AD
They are taking out one of the ways to get wards, yet supply will be roughly the same since only a fraction of the amount of wards are needed. Prices will stay roughly the same in the AH..
and people will continue to get coal wards like the always have..... AD
That's why your argument literally holds no weight runebane. people get their wards through the AH or with real money, under the new system this doesn't change.
People never got enough wards through invoking, this simply just added to the overall supply that will no longer make since in module 2 (thus needing a change)
The lack of YOUR understanding is astounding
You simply don't get it
Maybe we are upset because we don't have the perfect enchants yet because we haven't farmed enough coal wards yet.
You guys don't know the ratio of coal wards introduced from keys compared to invoking.
Since this is a supply and demand thing your throwing ~400k numbers out from no where.
Mounts sell for 700-800k as a grand prize and your trying to say that 200 bars are worth half that LOL. If that was the case key sales would go up multiplicatively since everyone would want to get rich off a few keys, and prices would get pushed down with all the key buyers. No matter what, the going rate will be less than 400k it wont even be in that ballpark
First you guys complain as an issue of principle and say it has nothing to do with price.
I tell you why your principle is flawed, then you guys argue about price
You guys are trying to claim that prices will quadruple, even though the need for them will fall dramatically. For this to happen invoking would need to constitute 20 wards for each 1 ward introduced from trade bars.
Do you think the ratio is 20:1?
You need a single person to invoke for 10 weeks to introduce 1 ward into the economy (we are assuming 10% here. could be higher)
A single person buying keys could introduce 3+ in a single day
I really don't think this is an error. Supply needs to be lowered dramatically and this is how.
So BoP got me to stop running dailies and DD's, but I was still logging in to invoke to get the coal wards and running some pvp with my alts. Now there really won't be much point to invoke, except for the angel of protection, which I honestly can't see myself making it to. Oh well more free time to actually do something productive.
You guys are trying to claim that prices will quadruple, even though the need for them will fall dramatically. For this to happen invoking would need to constitute 20 wards for each 1 ward introduced from trade bars.
Do you think the ratio is 20:1?
You need a single person to invoke for 10 weeks to introduce 1 ward into the economy (we are assuming 10% here. could be higher)
A single person buying keys could introduce 3+ in a single day
I kept track for some time and it's ~20% for Coals from Coffers.
For the price to stay stable the ratio of Invoke-Coals to Lockbox-Coals has to be 15:84. That's 1 Coal from Trade Bars for every 5.6 Coals from Invokation, which seems reasonable. For me it might be closer to 15:45 tbh.
So I think there is a decent chance that prices will stay as they are, because the Lockbox-Coals will be able to supply the demand.
BUT: I absolutely won't agree on the fact that a mandatory item can be only acquired through ZEN. That's a true P2W move there, so devs break word. And don't tell me that you can farm ADs and get your Coals from there, because _somebody_ has to buy ZEN for a steady stream of Coals.
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited November 2013
You can do the content without the high-level enchantments, but *if* this is an intended change, it nullifies a great deal of the goodwill generated by first making high-level enchantments more of a realistic goal for casual and free players with the new refining system. Some people like knowing they can progress towards improving their gear even if they don't strictly need to. People like knowing that if they are willing to invest enough time and be patient, they can earn their shinies. Take that away and if you're not putting in something equally appealing to replace it, you've lost them.
The refining system and changes to unslotting costs were designed to make the enchantment system more appealing to players who weren't making use of it. What you'll see is that once again, people will opt out of the system (if not the entire game), because it's too expensive to bother with.
And removing PvP from the equation doesn't make for a more fair assessment because like it or not, it's in the game and it's really important to a significant segment of the player base.
For players who didn't care about gaining high level enchantments, the occasional lucky coal ward or simply selling coffers was a source of income in order to be able to afford things they do care about, like fashion items. Take that away and you're losing them too.
I'm still waiting on an official statement, but I'm really not pleased with how this currently looks. I was very excited about the refining system, and felt it would bring about big positive changes, but putting wards behind a paywall would make it less accessible than before. It would be a bigger step back than the one taken forward. Very much hoping it won't be a live change.
How could be there price drop after the update, if demand on coal wards will go up extremely high, because with the new system we need a lot less wards and just a bit of gold to unslot enchantments, so everyone will want to get them. Now casual/f2p players barely use armor/weapon enchantments because of very high cost of creating and unslotting them.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
correction: No Coffer with no other method of gaining wards by gameplay = P2W game / and that isnt entirely true either if u take pvp out of the equation. All PvE can be done without any high lvl rank enchant...p2w argument doesnt hold at all.
But no official statement has yet made so is kinda premature to start getting angry without knowing the producers intentions.
I hate to get more touchy, but where do you 'win' in PvE? I understand that I disagree with many. Some find it actually challenging and competitive. But those people who do find it challenging and competitive, would probably also be the type of people who grind for the best gear and enchants.
I guess if your one of those types of people, you could see the restriction on high level armor attachments as 'pay to win', too.
Oh, and all PvP can be done without high rank enchants. It's just that, between equals, the guy with the better gear and enchants will win. Thus, if you have to pay money for that gear or those enchants, you have what is essentially a pay to win system.
At this current point, every bit of our gear can be gotten free-to-play, with us wasting our time and grinding the things out. After this change, SOMEONE will have to pay money for a key or a coal ward in order to get those enchants, barring the 1% chance to succeed.
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
I hate to get more touchy, but where do you 'win' in PvE? I understand that I disagree with many. Some find it actually challenging and competitive. But those people who do find it challenging and competitive, would probably also be the type of people who grind for the best gear and enchants.
I guess if your one of those types of people, you could see the restriction on high level armor attachments as 'pay to win', too.
Oh, and all PvP can be done without high rank enchants. It's just that, between equals, the guy with the better gear and enchants will win. Thus, if you have to pay money for that gear or those enchants, you have what is essentially a pay to win system.
At this current point, every bit of our gear can be gotten free-to-play, with us wasting our time and grinding the things out. After this change, SOMEONE will have to pay money for a key or a coal ward in order to get those enchants, barring the 1% chance to succeed.
@lobo Well.. it took me aprox 6 months to earn full rank 8 plus perfect enchants. Now with the new artifacts (if they are usable in pvp) the difference between a new lvl 60 and a veteran will become even more big. I have all classes lvl 60 and i did enjoy pvping with them all until too many people managed to gear one char as fully pvp so mine remain with a rank 5-6 and lesser enchants, i just cant cope with farming all that gear so from module 2 i will have to play only one class. This is not something that i like and i dont think is good for the game. i did post about this issue in other threads pleading for a separation between pvp and pve, with a preset pvp gear.
mod note: this thread has again been moderated. i'll simply re-quote zeb's previous note:
Moderator Notice:
. . . . . There's no need to continually repeat the argument of the Dev's not responding to this "issue." Please, just relax and wait for the Developers to respond. They will when they are able to. Further off-topic comments will be cause for Moderation. If you don't have something productive to add to the discussion of the "change," then please don't respond with off topic remarks, such as the developers not responding. Thanks!
do not respond to this notice. instead, if you have questions pertaining to moderation, please PM any of the community moderators or the community managers. thank you.
0
guaraguao34Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2013
I would be happy if the reagents/catalyst whatever they want to call it (the mark of potency all of them), would add higher % to the success ratio when refining like from 10% - 60% (yes i said 60%), don't think they do . The higher the enchantment rank the higher the %, that at least would make the changes less painful, it would still keep the value of the wards since, they would be needed for a 100% chance of refinement and players WANT that 100% chance, i think with that both sides would be happy. Something like that, where i could increase the chance of success when refining higher level enchantments, without feeling im being forced to get a ward, hey that would keep me 150% in the game. And the suggestion i made about the weekly (don't remember the number of the post), one of those 2 would be nice :cool:.
0
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
Comments
Now instead of the world will end behavior you could express legit concerns like: ok we have this but lessers are going to be extremely expensive. Think it took 20 pages for someone else to come and point that again.
Also new coffer is a really good source of ad for those who actually play the game.
How on Earth could you have R10s? Seems like everyone's here a billionaire with endless amount of wards and enchantments. From my 15 characters I've got zero coal wards yesterday, ZERO, second week in a row! And it takes me 4-7 tries to fuse 4 R5s into R6! And with the coffer removal I'd have to buy even green wards, and, according to their price, it'll be cheaper to just use coal wards instead of greens in general. So if the changes go live, I'll have to pay cash or wait someone to pay instead of me to have a chance to just TRY to make even R6 enchantment!
I don't have any R10s, I am just saying someone who has R10s can easily move them to a new character. This was in response to another poster about a quest at lvl 60 for the coffer
I play since the opeb beta and i have "only" rank seven enchantments/runestone. I had a big advantage in finding some coal wards in the coffers. The rate is approx 1 ward every 10-12 coffer so it is possible that you didnt find anything in 15 coffers. I bought some coal and i found some else. If they remove coffer there will be very less wards on the market and prices will go up a lot. We won't have the possibiliry to find them in coal and we couldnt afford the rised costs. As i wrote before: really no coal anymore for a lot of ppl.
Players who now are full of wards of course write here that remove coff it is a great idea couse after they can sell them for very high price and become more rich than now.
Again: remove coff is a big big damage for game qnd economy, will make the game declared p2w, will ruin any afford to make easier to rank up enchants introducing refinement system, will make unhappy a ton of players.
I really don't undetstand why remove coff if until now NOONE conplained about it. It work very well and renove it will help few rich against the mass of players. I still hope in a official answer that will make us free from this nightmare.
I play since open beta too, took a break in summer (after that omg release with that lol Gauntlgrym), so yeah, I'm approve that approximately I get 1 coalescent ward per week. And I also have R7 enchants and runestones.
Noone complained about enchantment system too tho. Cryptic just didn't find it enough profitable.
And I still believe that this is just a bug.
If it was a bug wouldn't a mod move it into the bug reports subforum? Hmmm....
I could accept this change only if:
- Coalescent Wards in the cash shop would pass from 1000 to 250 zen (250 zen are around 100k AD, so no price change in the end), and Preservation Wards to 10 AD (4K AD)
or
- There would be a new daily quest for preservation wards and a new weekly quest for coalescent wards.
If they will just remove the coffer and nothing else, I would probably keep playing this game till I can, but I SWEAR ON MY HONOR I WON'T SPEND A SINGLE $ ON IT ANYMORE.
The solution would be simple anyway: if what we fear happens, just let's EVERYBODY don't buy absolutely anything from the cash shop for 1-2 months. They will surely change the thing back. The problem is mmorpgs population is often too childish to do this (most of the people in those games can't force themselves to not buy what they want immediatly, it's incredible and kinda sad but true).
Although I'm concerned I believe that the developers aren't stupid enough to put something so important and as fundamental to character development as high level enchantments and all weapon/armor enchantments behind a pay wall , that would be tantamount to this games suicide .
They said they will make a statement letting us know what is happening so I'll wait for that before I start freaking out lol.
I don't have your faith in Cryptic. I'm hoping that explanation arrives at the lastest by Monday and furthermore, that it is a satisfactory one.
The 7 Day Celestial reward was set up for all levels 11-60 to use immediately. The new Sharandar box is only good once you are level 60. That's a problem.
I propose:
Changing the name to Wondrous coffer which will offer
5 Mount retraining tokens where it takes 5 tokens to raise a common mount or companion to uncommon, 10 tokens to raise a mount or companion from uncommon to rare and 20 tokens to raise a mount or companion to epic with a 5-20% chance of occurring.
OR
Coalescent Ward 5-20% chance
OR
Tradebar Jackpot 5-10% chance
OR
10,000 Refined AD
This is my first Cryptic game so you probably have more experience with the company then me , the one thing we have on our side is that when the game was first released they made a solid commitment that this game would never be 'pay to win' .
But a bug could be linking the wrong item into the wrong place. This isn't a brand new item, it's just new as a 7 coin offering, not new to the game. Could be that they were trying to make it an optional 7 coin offering instead of THE 7 coin offering, and a bug is prohibiting the display of both options. So, yeah, it COULD be a bug.
Maybe we are upset because we don't have the perfect enchants yet because we haven't farmed enough coal wards yet.
I think that ratio of 20:1 sounds right.
Probably not sinking in because it is a bad argument.
I kept track for some time and it's ~20% for Coals from Coffers.
For the price to stay stable the ratio of Invoke-Coals to Lockbox-Coals has to be 15:84. That's 1 Coal from Trade Bars for every 5.6 Coals from Invokation, which seems reasonable. For me it might be closer to 15:45 tbh.
So I think there is a decent chance that prices will stay as they are, because the Lockbox-Coals will be able to supply the demand.
BUT: I absolutely won't agree on the fact that a mandatory item can be only acquired through ZEN. That's a true P2W move there, so devs break word. And don't tell me that you can farm ADs and get your Coals from there, because _somebody_ has to buy ZEN for a steady stream of Coals.
The refining system and changes to unslotting costs were designed to make the enchantment system more appealing to players who weren't making use of it. What you'll see is that once again, people will opt out of the system (if not the entire game), because it's too expensive to bother with.
And removing PvP from the equation doesn't make for a more fair assessment because like it or not, it's in the game and it's really important to a significant segment of the player base.
For players who didn't care about gaining high level enchantments, the occasional lucky coal ward or simply selling coffers was a source of income in order to be able to afford things they do care about, like fashion items. Take that away and you're losing them too.
I'm still waiting on an official statement, but I'm really not pleased with how this currently looks. I was very excited about the refining system, and felt it would bring about big positive changes, but putting wards behind a paywall would make it less accessible than before. It would be a bigger step back than the one taken forward. Very much hoping it won't be a live change.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
I hate to get more touchy, but where do you 'win' in PvE? I understand that I disagree with many. Some find it actually challenging and competitive. But those people who do find it challenging and competitive, would probably also be the type of people who grind for the best gear and enchants.
I guess if your one of those types of people, you could see the restriction on high level armor attachments as 'pay to win', too.
Oh, and all PvP can be done without high rank enchants. It's just that, between equals, the guy with the better gear and enchants will win. Thus, if you have to pay money for that gear or those enchants, you have what is essentially a pay to win system.
At this current point, every bit of our gear can be gotten free-to-play, with us wasting our time and grinding the things out. After this change, SOMEONE will have to pay money for a key or a coal ward in order to get those enchants, barring the 1% chance to succeed.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
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Sticky: Cryptic OFFICIAL Feedback Thread: The Coffers of Wondrous Augmentation
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