Dont argue because i dont like something? Sage advice - i suggest you have some.
No hysteria involved at all - discussion only.
Wait dont discuss coffers here because they arent part of the refinement system..... What are those pretty shinies inside those coffers used for? All of those items are used for refinement. So as that thread is no longer available, this thread is as relevant as it gets.
I never said the new refinement system is worse due to coffer changes and zen exchange.
I said, in prior posts, costs are higher at lower ranks and lower at upper ranks, doesnt reduce the time by any practical time frame. Its worse because has more moving parts/more complex and more expensive for the people this entire system it was aimed at. Btw some people dont really care what the maths work out to be for R9's&10s. They care about the ranks immediately in front of them. In some cases it will cost them more for this. Slice that however you wish.
The new system does not seem to add appeal to previous people who did not use it save for the ability to use any enchantment type to refine with. I've left off removal costs as you say this is not part of the refinement process.
Removal Cost are part of the refinement process. Or do you destroy the R8 in your gear instead of removing it to fuse it with 3 other R8?
Second the coffer are an item itself outside of the refinement system. What happened at your hysteric if they only reduce the rates of the coffer and hold the old system? OH then you wouldn't argue with the same behavior or?
And as you say: R5 and higher will be faster, because you don't need 4 R4 of the same type! You can use all R and all types.
The mark cost are hysteric argument, because we don't know if they aren't good farmeable. The R3 cost 50k at the basar, but noone of you calculate with such a value. Why not? Because you can farm the R3+R4?! Oh then you argue against yourself with this point - we can farm them, but we don't farm then and buy them instead!
I ask again: How many runs do you in epics to say, that MoP and GMoP are only available from basar?
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Removal Cost are part of the refinement process. Or do you destroy the R8 in your gear instead of removing it to fuse it with 3 other R8?
Second the coffer are an item itself outside of the refinement system. What happened at your hysteric if they only reduce the rates of the coffer and hold the old system? OH then you wouldn't argue with the same behavior or?
And as you say: R5 and higher will be faster, because you don't need 4 R4 of the same type! You can use all R and all types.
The mark cost are hysteric argument, because we don't know if they aren't good farmeable. The R3 cost 50k at the basar, but noone of you calculate with such a value. Why not? Because you can farm the R3+R4?! Oh then you argue against yourself with this point - we can farm them, but we don't farm then and buy them instead!
I ask again: How many runs do you in epics to say, that MoP and GMoP are only available from basar?
Can you stop this?
1. Enchantments are no longer available at the W.Bazaar.
2. Wards are not a part of the refinement system so part of what are they?
3. Some person had already stated that there were only one blue mark that dropped from a single boss in the entire dungeon and people could roll on it.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
It would be nice to change shards refinement succes rate from 1% (which is ridiculous, we know it, you know it)to somewhere higher, especially since you put them in same grade as rank 5 enchantments (same amount of refining points given by both)
Compromise would be making shards refining succes rate 25% and leave 1% for upgrading to normal/greater/perfect or make it like 25/15/10/1
It would be nice to change shards refinement succes rate from 1% (which is ridiculous, we know it, you know it)to somewhere higher, especially since you put them in same grade as rank 5 enchantments (same amount of refining points given by both)
Compromise would be making shards refining succes rate 25% and leave 1% for upgrading to normal/greater/perfect or make it like 25/15/10/1
Sorry for my english
More than 5% ... you may use a lot of PW , and not a CW for process. But may be it s your idea ...
Yes a lot PW for making LESSER seems more logical than puting CW which cost in best scenario twice as shards needed to refine, and in most cases 10 times more
Yes a lot PW for making LESSER seems more logical than puting CW which cost in best scenario twice as shards needed to refine, and in most cases 10 times more
atm anything over ~4% success rate should use PW instead of CW in order to refine (unless you suck at math). with this system, CW are ONLY used for greater -> perfect..
guaraguao34Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2013
Feedback: Improvement to ease the pain
Should let the mark of potency add some success rate to the refinement, i said this in another thread, but something that add up to the "x %" depending on the quality of the mark and rank of the enchantment. Would be nice to use them like that with armor or weapon enchantment, that way you could get away with preservation wards since you would have a higher % of success. 10 - 50% your call) depending on the quality of the mark and rank of the enchantment. It still wont take away the value of coalescent wards since they still would give 100% success. Like the biggest pain with enchantments is past rank 5 maybe 6 when it turns into 40% success (for rank 6).
To make a rank 6 you need a mark of potency, the blue one, which cost 25k ad, and it will be lost whether its a success or not, unless im wrong (would like to know that, cant really remember). That mark could give 10 - 20% bonus to that success rate, at least that, making that chance a 50 - 60% chance (duh!!). The lower the success chance the higher the bonus of the mark. The idea is since marks are mandatory to upgrade enchantments now (-_-), and anything after the lesser prices will go incredibly high, the bonus should ease the painful blow, and not having this "feeling" of im being force to use the zen store or buy something else to get an upgrade (before this, it wasn't like that). The other point, the HUGE difference in price of marks after the lesser one to blue ones, i think its completely and totally unnecessary, if lesser are 500, next one should be at least 5k or 10k would be more appropriate (honestly even less), but the jump to 25k, that's way unbalanced, not to count the epic mark, 75k above the blue mark. The epic or greater mark should be in the 25k- 30k ad not 100k. The idea of the new system was to make it "easier" and "less painful", unfortunately its not like that, i hope you take in consideration the bonus % for marks.Don't turn this game in another the old republic (i know that game its not yours).
Opened ~100 coffers on test to check a change panderus mentioned was internal (not many i know so take these figures with a fair amount of inaccuracy) ~90 Pres Wards, ~10 Coals, 0 Peridots/Aquamarines. I didnt record the exact results. Did 10 at a time on 10 char copies.
Im sorry but at this point I have no idea what cryptic is trying to accomplish with this new refining system and changes to the coalescent wards. They say "We have spent a lot of effort into making the experience of slotting, improving and unslotting Enchantments and Runestones much more enjoyable, totally reworking the entire system." But in fact this new system has become just the opposite. And with every change they make to try and improve it, it becomes worse.
I cannot see how adding yet another item needed for refining is going to speed up or make it more enjoyable, in fact it just makes it more frustrating. So now instead of just needing a ward to refine my enchants im going to need a ward and a reagent. But also instead of just needing 4 and the same enchants to make a higher level I'll also need more enchants to rank it up before I can refine. Which since they don't seem to understand, means they are now adding even more steps and items to the refining system for no good reason.
The only real hold back for the old refining system was simply that it cost far too much to unslot an enchant and of course the need for wards to make high level enchants. If the intent was to make it more enjoyable then all they had to do was simply lower the cost for unslotting (which they did) and possibly slightly raise the drop rate for Coal wards. Obviously they decided to go in a diffdrent direction.
Which brings us to the next part. If making the system more enjoyable is what they are trying to do, why in the blue hell would they not only make coal wards BoA but also lower the drop rate. Making them BoA is enough to stop the farmers so there is no reason to also lower the drop rate.
But hey, I don't enjoy running epic dungeons either since the reward isn't worth the effort, maybe the devs can add 3 more boss to every dungeon and lower the drop rate for epic gear while they're at it, might as well make that "more enjoyable" too
Ninja nerfed shards, BoA wards are not a problem, the problem is steep difficulty of gaining marks of potency.
Going from 500 ad the green quality to 25k ad the blue quality, was just the mothers of all overkills, not to mention from 25k ad to 100k ad the blue to epic quality.
0
guaraguao34Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I can buy 80 apples, with 10~15 dollars each. I need 80 apples. <--- old system.
I can buy 10 apples, with 90 ~100 dollars each . I need 10 apples. <--- new system.
You sir understood the system perfectly, that's why i dont like the system. If anyone dont understand this, then there its just no other way to explain it.
The minimum you're going to need is 32 matching and 1216 (:rolleyes:) unmatched.
Feedback The nerf to the RP of unmatching shards should be at least partially reverted. It's still easier to obtain 1216 unmatched shards than 152 matching, but it's an unreasonable grind.
A common dungeon will give you 3/5 shard per run + one from the Sharandar daily. Assuming you manage to do five runs per day (which most players won't) you are going to need 304 days to collect all unmatched shards needed for a Perfect.
The minimum you're going to need is 32 matching and 1216 (:rolleyes:) unmatched.
Feedback The nerf to the RP of unmatching shards should be at least partially reverted. It's still easier to obtain 1216 unmatched shards than 152 matching, but it's an unreasonable grind.
A common dungeon will give you 3/5 shard per run + one from the Sharandar daily. Assuming you manage to do five runs per day (which most players won't) you are going to need 304 days to collect all unmatched shards needed for a Perfect.
And u can use stone loot on mob (runes / dark, ...) , coffer with ref point loot on epik (drop **** unknown), coffer with pray , ...ect ...
Stop considering shard non matching like the only way for refining...
Comments
Removal Cost are part of the refinement process. Or do you destroy the R8 in your gear instead of removing it to fuse it with 3 other R8?
Second the coffer are an item itself outside of the refinement system. What happened at your hysteric if they only reduce the rates of the coffer and hold the old system? OH then you wouldn't argue with the same behavior or?
And as you say: R5 and higher will be faster, because you don't need 4 R4 of the same type! You can use all R and all types.
The mark cost are hysteric argument, because we don't know if they aren't good farmeable. The R3 cost 50k at the basar, but noone of you calculate with such a value. Why not? Because you can farm the R3+R4?! Oh then you argue against yourself with this point - we can farm them, but we don't farm then and buy them instead!
I ask again: How many runs do you in epics to say, that MoP and GMoP are only available from basar?
I can buy 10 apples, with 90 ~100 dollars each . I need 10 apples. <--- new system.
do not reply to this moderation note. instead, send a PM to the community moderators and/or community managers to discuss it. thanks!
Can you stop this?
1. Enchantments are no longer available at the W.Bazaar.
2. Wards are not a part of the refinement system so part of what are they?
3. Some person had already stated that there were only one blue mark that dropped from a single boss in the entire dungeon and people could roll on it.
Compromise would be making shards refining succes rate 25% and leave 1% for upgrading to normal/greater/perfect or make it like 25/15/10/1
Sorry for my english
More than 5% ... you may use a lot of PW , and not a CW for process. But may be it s your idea ...
atm anything over ~4% success rate should use PW instead of CW in order to refine (unless you suck at math). with this system, CW are ONLY used for greater -> perfect..
32 initial shards then what 320 randoms?
32 shards and 1216 random shards/rank 5 enchants.
ok how about if it's not randoms
Should let the mark of potency add some success rate to the refinement, i said this in another thread, but something that add up to the "x %" depending on the quality of the mark and rank of the enchantment. Would be nice to use them like that with armor or weapon enchantment, that way you could get away with preservation wards since you would have a higher % of success. 10 - 50% your call) depending on the quality of the mark and rank of the enchantment. It still wont take away the value of coalescent wards since they still would give 100% success. Like the biggest pain with enchantments is past rank 5 maybe 6 when it turns into 40% success (for rank 6).
To make a rank 6 you need a mark of potency, the blue one, which cost 25k ad, and it will be lost whether its a success or not, unless im wrong (would like to know that, cant really remember). That mark could give 10 - 20% bonus to that success rate, at least that, making that chance a 50 - 60% chance (duh!!). The lower the success chance the higher the bonus of the mark. The idea is since marks are mandatory to upgrade enchantments now (-_-), and anything after the lesser prices will go incredibly high, the bonus should ease the painful blow, and not having this "feeling" of im being force to use the zen store or buy something else to get an upgrade (before this, it wasn't like that). The other point, the HUGE difference in price of marks after the lesser one to blue ones, i think its completely and totally unnecessary, if lesser are 500, next one should be at least 5k or 10k would be more appropriate (honestly even less), but the jump to 25k, that's way unbalanced, not to count the epic mark, 75k above the blue mark. The epic or greater mark should be in the 25k- 30k ad not 100k. The idea of the new system was to make it "easier" and "less painful", unfortunately its not like that, i hope you take in consideration the bonus % for marks. Don't turn this game in another the old republic (i know that game its not yours).
It didnt feel any different to live tbh.
Wow - thank you.
Just .... lol
Im sorry but at this point I have no idea what cryptic is trying to accomplish with this new refining system and changes to the coalescent wards. They say "We have spent a lot of effort into making the experience of slotting, improving and unslotting Enchantments and Runestones much more enjoyable, totally reworking the entire system." But in fact this new system has become just the opposite. And with every change they make to try and improve it, it becomes worse.
I cannot see how adding yet another item needed for refining is going to speed up or make it more enjoyable, in fact it just makes it more frustrating. So now instead of just needing a ward to refine my enchants im going to need a ward and a reagent. But also instead of just needing 4 and the same enchants to make a higher level I'll also need more enchants to rank it up before I can refine. Which since they don't seem to understand, means they are now adding even more steps and items to the refining system for no good reason.
The only real hold back for the old refining system was simply that it cost far too much to unslot an enchant and of course the need for wards to make high level enchants. If the intent was to make it more enjoyable then all they had to do was simply lower the cost for unslotting (which they did) and possibly slightly raise the drop rate for Coal wards. Obviously they decided to go in a diffdrent direction.
Which brings us to the next part. If making the system more enjoyable is what they are trying to do, why in the blue hell would they not only make coal wards BoA but also lower the drop rate. Making them BoA is enough to stop the farmers so there is no reason to also lower the drop rate.
But hey, I don't enjoy running epic dungeons either since the reward isn't worth the effort, maybe the devs can add 3 more boss to every dungeon and lower the drop rate for epic gear while they're at it, might as well make that "more enjoyable" too
please do not respond to this mod note. instead, send a PM to the community moderators or the community managers if you'd like to discuss this note.
To ppl who dont understand ... don t use system , and buy enchantment to the other ...
i will sell you enchant to actually price. Like that you will be happy... (and me too !!!...)
i do greter for 1.4 M AD
i do perfect for 3.7 M AD
price will increase, but total never go up 10+M AD needed today for a perfect
Going from 500 ad the green quality to 25k ad the blue quality, was just the mothers of all overkills, not to mention from 25k ad to 100k ad the blue to epic quality.
You sir understood the system perfectly, that's why i dont like the system. If anyone dont understand this, then there its just no other way to explain it.
184, down from 256 under the current system
The minimum you're going to need is 32 matching and 1216 (:rolleyes:) unmatched.
Feedback
The nerf to the RP of unmatching shards should be at least partially reverted. It's still easier to obtain 1216 unmatched shards than 152 matching, but it's an unreasonable grind.
A common dungeon will give you 3/5 shard per run + one from the Sharandar daily. Assuming you manage to do five runs per day (which most players won't) you are going to need 304 days to collect all unmatched shards needed for a Perfect.
And u can use stone loot on mob (runes / dark, ...) , coffer with ref point loot on epik (drop **** unknown), coffer with pray , ...ect ...
Stop considering shard non matching like the only way for refining...
U use matching shard ... and with new syst , make perfect with matching shard is cheaper!
New syst : u can use matching shard and do your perfect for cheaper. OR use your useless shard for help you , BUT YOUR ARE NOT FORCED.
You will say but shard pric will grow ... BUT IF SHARD PRICE GROW ... IT S BECAUSE SYST IS CHEAPER.
If syst will be more expensible , ppl dont make their perfect , and price shard stay at same price ...
For rank 8 / 9 /10 , i haven t do test , more expensive or cheaper i dont know.
before 256 shard needed and 85 CW
On my test , new syst = 109 + 32 shards total ( cause critical refining)
But few players wants to see price non matching shards grow a lot, because they buy thousand stack of this and want to sell them at high price