Cryptic OFFICIAL Feedback Thread: Refinement System - Pt. 2

kimonka

Can somebody reconfirm the drop rates of the marks?
Is it still really rare for normal ones to appear?

mehguy138

kimonka wrote: »

Can somebody reconfirm the drop rates of the marks?
Is it still really rare for normal ones to appear?

Have never seen green mark to drop from skill node yet, played my HR over 2 weeks in general.

beckylunatic

I pulled this out of Panderus's addition to the preview patch notes from before last:

Cask of Wonders: No longer has a chance to drop Minor Stones of Potency (White), now has a Chance to drop Stones of Potency (Blue). No longer drops Peridots or Aquamarines, now has a chance to drop the Lesser (Green) and normal (Blue) Stones of Power, Stability, and Union.

Anyone know where one gets a Cask of Wonders? It sounds like a lockbox item to me.

beckylunatic

swarfega27 wrote: »

Opened ~100 coffers on test to check a change panderus mentioned was internal (not many i know so take these figures with a fair amount of inaccuracy) ~90 Pres Wards, ~10 Coals, 0 Peridots/Aquamarines. I didnt record the exact results. Did 10 at a time on 10 char copies.

It didnt feel any different to live tbh.

Wow - thank you.

If anyone sees any value to it, I can run some tests as well. It's cash out day for me, so if I consolidate coffers and copy everyone while they're holding them, I can also provide a statistical sample of 100.

imsmithy

beckylunatic wrote: »

Anyone know where one gets a Cask of Wonders? It sounds like a lockbox item to me.

It's an item you can craft using the Dread ring campaign window I think .

ladysylvia

j0shi82 wrote: »

Chance of a critical 150% seems to be around 1/10, critical 200% 1/30.

So every enchant/shard gets ~8% RP boost. Critical refining doesn't seem to work with Refining Stones at all.

Sample: 2.090 - Crit1.5: 191 (9.14%) - Crit2.0: 71 (3.40%)

My feeling was 10% for the +50% RP Crit Success and 5% for the +100% RP Crit Success. So not far away from your testing.

kimonka wrote: »

Can somebody reconfirm the drop rates of the marks?
Is it still really rare for normal ones to appear?

LM are between 10-15% on skill nodes.(remember that exist more as only Potency)

beckylunatic wrote: »

I pulled this out of Panderus's addition to the preview patch notes from before last:



Anyone know where one gets a Cask of Wonders? It sounds like a lockbox item to me.

This isn't a lockbox item. You get this item as rewards from Knoxquestchest. I reported it as bug(lack description and the gained Item not appear in your inventory).

beckylunatic

imsmithy wrote: »

It's an item you can craft using the Dread ring campaign window I think .

Intriguing. That would have been guess #2. I'll have to check out what it costs.

Edit:
Thanks, ladysylvia.

imsmithy

beckylunatic wrote: »

Intriguing. That would have been guess #2. I'll have to check out what it costs.

Edit:
Thanks, ladysylvia.

Nvm Beckylunatic , I was sure I had seen it in there but I haven't been on test for a couple of weeks and having just checked I was mistaken .

nwnghost

I noticed a large number of people driving up the price of serene, indomitable and tranquil runestones/enchants. How is their rp gain compared to shards?


People used to. sell those for 300 AD or throw them away but they now sell for 20k each

ladysylvia

nwnghost wrote: »

I noticed a large number of people driving up the price of serene, indomitable and tranquil runestones/enchants. How is their rp gain compared to shards?


People used to. sell those for 300 AD or throw them away but they now sell for 20k each

If they follow the lesser fey blessing RP giving, then they give as nonmatching ones 12.960 RP.

beckylunatic

Assuming all lesser enchantments are the same, credit to ladysylvia again for the numbers

Lesser Fey can be obtained twice a week and worth 12960 for 20k AD

I tossed a couple of serenes in the guild bank (that's where all my "useless" shards went too... can I have dibs on getting those back, guys? :P), but my indomitables are equipped to companions where they've somewhat outstripped their usefulness. I think I might ultimately be buying those back....

Edit:
And she beat me to it.

ladysylvia

174 out of 1111 coffer = ~15% rate. ^^

@Vorposter: Ninjaaaaaaaad

beckylunatic

Editing caused doublepost

beckylunatic

One other thing occurred to me that needs testing, which is a great deal more fiddly because it requires the coffers to be purchased from the Vault of Piety on the test server. Mine all hit 7 coins today, so I'll import them and check it out. Only need to run a few to see if I'm getting peridots, right?

Remember that what they said was existing items would not be altered. That doesn't mean that future coffers aren't being changed, potentially only that they've fixed a bug where the ones you already have were using the new loot table, which they shouldn't.

Edit:
Those of you who were testing, did the wards you obtained come bound or not? And what do the tooltips say on your coffer and the shop description?

dardove

beckylunatic wrote: »

One other thing occurred to me that needs testing, which is a great deal more fiddly because it requires the coffers to be purchased from the Vault of Piety on the test server. Mine all hit 7 coins today, so I'll import them and check it out. Only need to run a few to see if I'm getting peridots, right?

Remember that what they said was existing items would not be altered. That doesn't mean that future coffers aren't being changed, potentially only that they've fixed a bug where the ones you already have were using the new loot table, which they shouldn't.

Edit:
Those of you who were testing, did the wards you obtained come bound or not? And what do the tooltips say on your coffer and the shop description?

With the previous patch, existing coffers were converted to the new versions. With the new patch, they remain as they are so there is no chance of getting refining stones from them and their rewards aren't BtA. So if you want to pick up the new coffers now, you will need to get them out of the vault of piety on the preview server.

I did grab a new coffer on the preview server and got a blue refining stone out of it.

beckylunatic

Thank, dardove. That confirms my suspicions.

ladysylvia

But we don't know if the new coffer remain the worse drop rate(CW ~5% and PW ~30%) mentioned in this thread some sides before.

swarfega27

The patch note doesnt match up to this behaviour for new coffers.

beckylunatic

ladysylvia wrote: »

But we don't know if the new coffer remain the worse drop rate(CW ~5% and PW ~30%) mentioned in this thread some sides before.

It pretty much has to be a worse drop rate, even if it's not precisely those percentages. The explanation of RNG giving you a blue drop or a green drop and then RNG on top of that determining if you get a ward or a refining stone sounded pretty reasonable (or first it decides ward or stone, and then blue or green). At any rate, having the game roll from a possible four items instead of two, they'd have to weight coalescent wards more heavily in order to keep the drop rates similar to now.

I'm kind of glad that it was initially bugged so that it could be tested, if only to provide a heads up.

@swarfega27
My post in the patch notes thread explains the phrasing.

ladysylvia

beckylunatic wrote: »

It pretty much has to be a worse drop rate, even if it's not precisely those percentages. The explanation of RNG giving you a blue drop or a green drop and then RNG on top of that determining if you get a ward or a refining stone sounded pretty reasonable (or first it decides ward or stone, and then blue or green). At any rate, having the game roll from a possible four items instead of two, they'd have to weight coalescent wards more heavily in order to keep the drop rates similar to now.

I'm kind of glad that it was initially bugged so that it could be tested, if only to provide a heads up.

@swarfega27
My post in the patch notes thread explains the phrasing.

Bugged... sorry, but you know what 'Bug' mean? As i said. The actual coffer on live is the object number 2857(number don't interest - it's only for showing). So if they don't change this object or interlink it with another, then it remain at copying to PTS the same. But it wasn't the same. To that object was changed complete. The patchnotes say it not direct, but the changed it really instead of removing the old coffer and replace it with the new one(like bulwark, lockboxes). So a bug i doubt happened.

beckylunatic

I would say that after stating that existing items would not be altered, the fact that the new drops were applying to existing coffers was a bug, which has since been fixed, as the subsequent tests demonstrate. It provided a preview of the drop rates on the new coffers that would not have been so easily accomplished now. Yes, still potentially subject to change, but something I'm inclined to be wary of.

kimonka

ladysylvia wrote: »

My feeling was 10% for the +50% RP Crit Success and 5% for the +100% RP Crit Success. So not far away from your testing.



LM are between 10-15% on skill nodes.(remember that exist more as only Potency)



This isn't a lockbox item. You get this item as rewards from Knoxquestchest. I reported it as bug(lack description and the gained Item not appear in your inventory).

Oh dear, I shudder to think of the drop raters for normal potencies then O_O.
Thanks for answering.

beckylunatic

So, my own statistically insignificant trial of 21 attempts at opening the new coffer, because I had to copy characters individually multiple times to buy them, and I've got other things to be doing.
2 aquamarines
4 preservation wards
15 peridots

krinaman

Not sure if mentioned yet but you should probably change the message when you use a ward.

For example I used a preservation ward but the warning message said that if I failed I would lose the reagents. I didn't, of course, but the message is a bit confusing

hinageshi79

i just tried the system on prrview. it is nearly impossible to rank up a rank 7 . i had 3 rank 7 and burnt sonethin like 2000 minor duplicated enchants and still no reached the needed points. also i had a ward, but if i reach the needed points i cannot rsnk up in any case couse i need also the stone. I didnt sudied well the system couse i had only 20 min free but it seems veryvery expensive in resources and TIME*to rsnk up. To save time i have a suggestion: we have 5
slots in refinement window, why should i burn only 1 object in any slot? if i have a stack of 35 enchants rank 3, let us to burn the whole stack in 1 slot.

Is this system better than previous? i think no couse we have also artifacts to rank up and where should we find all the enchantd to burn everywhere? I will never rank up my anchabts anymire lol...

please could you link me a discussion with math and explanations?
ps.
i think enchants in AH will become more and more expensive. Your opinion?

beckylunatic

If I'm not too tired to do math, you'd need 16384 matching rank 1 enchantments to make a rank 8 under the fuse-four system, provided you never failed even one single fusion. Maybe that puts it into perspective a little. It takes a lot either way, but people are getting burned out while refining because they're trying to do it all at once, instead of a little at a time like they have been doing with fusions.

Criticisms about the cost and/or availability of reagents are separate because we don't know how that's going to shake out.

icky1982

hinageshi79 wrote: »

please could you link me a discussion with math and explanations?
ps.
i think enchants in AH will become more and more expensive. Your opinion?

Before

rank 5 -> rank 7

4 * 4 similar stone = 16
+28 PW = 4k * 28 = 112k (zen price)
Total : 16 stone + 112k

After

rank 5 -> rank 7

similar stone = 14
+7 PW = 7 * 4k = 28k (zen price)
+3 * 25k mark = 75k(roof price)
Total = 14 stone + 103k

With my test its cheaper but it s not revolution. May cheaper if drop rate blue mark is good.

I use similar stone , to compare with old syst, but use similar stone give only *2 bonus , so use non similar stone may a best way with new system.

icky1982

Before

rank 5 -> rank 8

4 * 4 * 4 similar stone = 64
+40 PW = 4k * 48 = 192k (zen price)
Total : 64 stone + 192k

After

rank 5 -> rank 8

similar stone = 58 (test)
+7 PW = 7 * 4k = 28k (zen price)
+6 * 25k mark 1 * 100k mark = 250k (roof price)
Total = 59 stone + 278k

icky1982

With similar stone, new syst will be more expensive for High rank if mark drop rate is not good.

But in this case , using non similar stone must be interresting , and would decrease cost of operation.

hinageshi79

i undwrstand your math, but you are assumin you HAVE tons of not similar stone... maybe you need to burn everything you have in one enchantmets... and then? how you refine the others? how you refine artifacts? your math show that probably the refinement is much more expensive than before for rank 7+. Devps tried to distract us telling us tgat we need a smaller*** nunmber on enchants/runestone but we need much more AD and most of the time we will feel like we miss one more thing (the reagent, the stone... dont remember the name).

***and it is not true since you need more because of artifacts