Necrotic damage cannot be mitigated, Tenebrouses do necrotic
This would make sense if any other Necrotic damage worked this way, but Tenebrous is the only one that does.
0
faiteaccompliiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2
edited October 2013
If they change things too much I will stop spending money on the game. I don't use these but I don't like the approach because I do spend money on things and I don't like having things I have paid for in good faith then made different.
Sorry this is part of why Free to play is hard....people spend money on getting certain items.
I don't use these so my opinion is objective. I am actually a victim of them but I still stand by that if people pay real life money for an item it needs to not be rendered ineffective due to whiners.
0
faiteaccompliiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2
edited October 2013
Remember people probaby bought a LOT of boxes to get tenes back when nightmare boxes were around, in fact then also buying keys. Bad approach I think in this fix.
I agree with that post.
However, i always thought that tenebrous bypassing deflect/dodge/dr and especially soulforged seemed like a broken mechanic to me.
its like some failure int he coding, devs forgot to propely edit the code of the enchant and it ignored stuff that it wasnt suppused to do.
some other necrotic enchants dont ignoreo stuff like tenes, so it makes sense.
but if they DO FIX these, i am afraid tenes wont be able to keep up with others enchants 10s, like darks. and this is ap roblem. because as you mentioned..., tenes are real money enchant.
so they should boost the dmg maybe slightly or reduce cooldown a little bit.
there are many other broken mechanics in the game
for example, lifedrinker:
sometimes you deflect your own healing (o_o).
Rare times you deflect your own potion.
when you use restoring strike as gwf, and you crit, the "crit healing, crits you" and if you have student of sword you debuff your own defense.
i believe such as these, tenes bypassing all stuff is a failure in the coding of the game. probably stuff easy to fix
I mean, the fact that Teneb damage still hits you after a dodge or goes through SF is one thing. Those need to be addressed because they are direct conflicts that undermine functions which are separate to stats. But everything else being a failure of code, after almost half a year into the game, is questionable. Especially with the fact that Tenebs out of any other enchant has been the most talked about on the forums and the most infamous in game.
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
For those who are whinning about money spent on keys, bla, bla, bla.... It doesnt means anything coz u dont rly need to pay real money to have tenebrous.... U can buy it from AH... probably from people that dont even have a clue how good they are and sell them becasue it worth good extra AD.
Theres still many work to be done with this unbalance PvP but things are getting better.
Well, you do what you have to do devs, I WILL HAVE TO DO WHAT I HAVE TO DO TOO. You see, i'm not like most of the ppl here rocking 7 tenes that exploited and saved hundreds of millions....i actually payed for my stuff, and payed WELL.
I'll wait to see if this goes live, the minute it does, the next minute i'll be on the phone to my bank. We'll see what happens. Either you lose money, or you lose the CHANCE at more.
Lets see.
You don't spend enough on the game for them to care about you not spending more. No one individual does. Further, I highly doubt the ones that paid a great deal of money for this enchantment make up a large percentage of their player base. As such, this threat and others like it are nothing more than dust in the wind to them.
This would make sense if any other Necrotic damage worked this way, but Tenebrous is the only one that does.
And you believe that after nearly half a year into the game, with Tenebs being the most talked about, sought after and infamous enchant, that they truly never intended for them to function the way they do? That right now in this point in time, they need to be radically changed and redefined? After countless people have spent real money or time in game (pve) to acquire them? Right...
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
Well, you do what you have to do devs, I WILL HAVE TO DO WHAT I HAVE TO DO TOO. You see, i'm not like most of the ppl here rocking 7 tenes that exploited and saved hundreds of millions....i actually payed for my stuff, and payed WELL.
I'll wait to see if this goes live, the minute it does, the next minute i'll be on the phone to my bank. We'll see what happens. Either you lose money, or you lose the CHANCE at more.
Lets see.
i'm not really familiar with the enchant, but if it was ignoring defense/deflect/dodge like they said and it wasn't intended, sure seems like they took their time figuring it out. if it makes the enchant perform on the same level as other enchants, then it seems like a good change to me.
that said, i still think people are justifiably upset with any huge change to such an expensive enchant. they are losing a lot of value. was sorta like the big change to the tier 1 guardian armor set that had been the same for a long time. everyone knew it was overpowered but with such a long time without change, players thought it would just go on indefinitely. when the change did finally come, no one got any compensation for the time and money they put into gathering and customizing their gear. i understand the expensive enchants are an order of magnitude more costly than the gear pieces, but it's the same idea.
Im sorry but this change makes no sense, this is not at all a regard to balance this is simply destroying and nullifying an enchant because of to much complaints, and not to mention was fundamentally and primarly an item to be acquired with real money.
If your going to change how the tenebrous works, make it subject to defense, deflect and AC, which like GCTRL already mentioned, goes completely against the definition of necrotic damage, then it might as well be subject to critical strike, power and armor penetration.
I can understand making it subject to dodge, or it not going through soul forge as it counteracts the definition of that enchant, but severely and i would say even blindly nerfing (because if they really did want to make the enchant balanced, and understood its full role and effectiveness in pvp i highly doubt a change like this would ever occur) a core enchant simply because people complain and don't learn how to deal with it when it can very well be done is in my opinion pretty cheap.
imho, it would be "ok" for them to "fix" it if they did so 1-2 weeks from when it was bought into the game.. but for them to wait til a lot of players invested on it already and then decide that its actually "not functioning" as it should.. for me thats just scamming, plain and simple.
So does someone with full Dark 10s vs something without, so does someone with a Perfect Vorpal vs someone with a lesser. Whats your point? That better items are better?
If you want to talk about whining, just take a look at the forums a few weeks after Tenes are nerfed and you will find a brand new enchant that people are complaining about.
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
So does someone with full Dark 10s vs something without, so does someone with a Perfect Vorpal vs someone with a lesser. Whats your point? That better items are better?
If you want to talk about whining, just take a look at the forums a few weeks after Tenes are nerfed and you will find a brand new enchant that people are complaining about.
It should be clear now that this company isn't afraid to change anything no matter how long it's been out. As such, when something is much better performing that its counterparts it is eventually going to be changed. So, either be prepared to spend the cash to enjoy the ride while it lasts, knowing full well it will eventually be over, or don't get on the ride at all.
Do you know who you're dealing with here? These are the same people that ignore a thread (the one we're debating in now) which specifically lays out legitimate ways to deal with Tenebs. These are the same people that were crying about how terrible GWFs were while others were running around Sent specced destroying everything, these are the people that will always find a way to complain no matter what. Please quote me on this, because I'm willing to bet real money that when Tenebs are no longer being used, another enchant will pop up to take its place as a scapegoat for overpoweredness.
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
...but for them to wait until a lot of players invested on it already and then decide that its actually "not functioning" as it should.. for me that's just scamming, plain and simple.
I wonder how long they have been sitting on the data that proves out this change....
This is where accountability and credibility of an MMO provider should converge not diverge. There have been more questionable "calls" in Neverwinter than I can recall in all the other MMO's I have played in my life combined.
It seems like too much "work" to get something right before releasing....too much "work" to QA things... too much "work" to fix things in a timely manner.
The only thing that seems to NOT take too much "work" is ANY RM Transaction...and even those are subject to flaws and delays.
I have not spent a thin red cent on this game since the Caturday fiasco...if I would not have stopped then, there have been plenty of other reasons since then that seem like the icing on the cake with my decision, however, this is the gravy on the icing on the cake.
I would also like to add that this game is making a fundamental mistake, balance fixes in games always revolve and are based around the highest level of play, for example in starcraft balance changes are based on the gameplay of the pro players, they do not base it on the opinion of what bronze players think, because they don't understand the game and don't fully exploit the potential of the abilities at their disposal.
This game however seems to be basing their fixes on the opinion of the masses, on who complains the most, to try and satisfy their clientele, which is understandable, but in my opinion fundamentally flawed, you cannot base your changes on the basis that the majority can't deal with a certain aspect of the game, you must look at the higher level, where people fully use everything at their disposal and search far and wide how to create strategies to counteract and deal with every aspect of the game, then after that once something can truly not be dealt with can a change be made, and here a mention a change, something to adjust the imbalance, not a total destruction and nullification of the aspect.
And i say this because if we do look at the highest level of play in this game, the tenebrous enchant has been dealt with, people have learned how to counteract them, how to fight against them and people can beat them, i know many people in this game that do use as well as not use tenebrous and are able to deal with them successfully and do not think they are imbalanced a lot of these i would consider the top players in this game, for something to be imbalanced, over powered, it has to be impossible to deal with, but from what i have experienced, from what i have seen, at the highest level of play, which should always be the focus of game that wants to have a strong fundamental basis, it is clearly not the case.
This change seems to me as if we were playing rock-paper-scissors, and because people complain the rock can never beat the paper, they simply take out the paper, when they fail to see the scissors.
Well let's be honest tenes aren't for everyone obtainable, and those are the ppl that are complaining about them.
If you have the ad for tenes u also build ur char around it and this results in much more different viable speccs.
Nerfing tenes like that will result in maybe 1-2 viable pvp speccs for each class, not to mention that gwf will be useless even in pvp.
Sure ppl are complaining atm about gwf tene/regen builds but only cuz they dont know how to deal with them or they just dont have the gear for it.
Right now gwfs even with full tenes, have a hard time killing any equal geared person, atleast when u know how to build ur char.
I know ppl are complaining about a fully geared gwf tanking 3 ppl or more in pug pvp but bring up equal geared players against them, they may can 1v1 but 1v2 isnt possible in any way.
But back to the topic.
In my opinion, and i guess lots of high skilled pvp players have the same, tenes are only op if u face ppl that haven't build their char for pvp.
And ye i think that's how it should be when you invested tons of time or even cash in a game you should have a big advantage about the other players.
I'm pretty sure nerfing tenes to the ground will result in lots of pvp players quiting the game, which is dieing anyways atm.
Tenes are the rich men's pvp and u should keep it like that.
Make the dmg dodgeable ok, this will be useless anyway but dont change the way necrotic dmg works.
OH i nearly forgot to say, u only read posts about how op tenes are and that it is to much burst dmg but noone cares about that they are only good when u are <70% hp. Noone cares about the big downside and that even r5 enchants are better than tenes when u are on low hp.
But ye thats how complaining works, dont think about the stuff u are raging at just throw it on the forums
0
yolojunglerMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 14Arc User
Cause looks like there is plenty of whine to go around...
I am all for this fix !!!!
Yet another + 1 Dev's from yet another customer...
So far it seems to be a 5 to 1 ratio or more of people who want tene's gone....
They completely unbalance PvP...
PS: I am loving the admissions of some finally admitting of paying to win.
I love how you're so angry against players that have spent money when this game wouldn't even be coming out with more content without the influx of cash from players who have chosen to support it. Perhaps when you grow up and stop collecting an allowance you'll grow to understand that, but for now you can continue being an angry little troll.
I for one will definitely abandon all support to PWE on this game and any future games for 1) the atrocious level of customer support, 2) their ineptitude to fix actual bugs in the game like the gear score bug in pvp, the chat bugs, the fact that barkshield completely negates tenebs 3) the only thing you've managed to do is create a mass hysteria where you have the market being flooded with everyone trying to sell their greater tenebs right now.
Should you be able to dodge them; yes. That tweak makes sense, but to negate what they do and diminish something that currently has plenty of counters is ridiculous. Simple and plain this is a form of bait and switch and I will be addressing this on a higher level if this nerf comes into effect.
It should be clear now that this company isn't afraid to change anything no matter how long it's been out. As such, when something is much better performing that its counterparts it is eventually going to be changed. So, either be prepared to spend the cash to enjoy the ride while it lasts, knowing full well it will eventually be over, or don't get on the ride at all.
Well said sir. I think this should be stickied, or even bolded and pasted on their registration website, to warn future new players of exactly what kind of game they are getting into.
I'll copy paste this to MMOHUT on their review of NWO section.
No need for quotes anymore. Lost City's eyes are wide open now. Thank god!b:victory
I've seen alot of Lemonade Stand members rage quit in the first 45 seconds of losing #2 node, as well as quite a fiew other "top guilds", since the server merge.
I dont believe there is one "single" Best Guild persay. But many Top guilds that can go either way.
Maybe the best A Team?....sure....Best Guild? I dont think there is one..
Generally we will not leave pvp unless we don't get the queue we want against another arranged group OR enemy team has players that have already left. Don't think i've ever partied with anyone that has rage quit even if were losing.
The company can change what they want, when they want and how they want. It is the same in any MMO. You are paying for a right to access stuff in game. It is your choice to do so. You AGREED to the Terms. So complaining about a change is pointless
but if they DO FIX these, i am afraid tenes wont be able to keep up with others enchants 10s, like darks. and this is ap roblem. because as you mentioned..., tenes are real money enchant.
so they should boost the dmg maybe slightly or reduce cooldown a little bit.
Tranquil is also real money enchant, and look at how ****ty it is. They seriously need to buff tranquil to match the 'post nerfed' tene as both are real money items from lockbox
It would be great if the Tenebrous Enchantments got their previous ICDs back. Now that players will be able to dodge and deflect them, there shouldn't be any issues with getting it reverted to its 8 second ICD. At one point or another, people paid for keys just for these enchantments. If it's not possible to at least halve the current 20 second ICD for these enchants, at the very least it would be helpful if they received additional utility capabilities.
It would be great if the Tenebrous Enchantments got their previous ICDs back. Now that players will be able to dodge and deflect them, there shouldn't be any issues with getting it reverted to its 8 second ICD. At one point or another, people paid for keys just for these enchantments. If it's not possible to at least halve the current 20 second ICD for these enchants, at the very least it would be helpful if they received additional utility capabilities.
but i want my tanquil to work ... definitely not on a 1 min cool down... tene has it at 20...
Comments
This would make sense if any other Necrotic damage worked this way, but Tenebrous is the only one that does.
Sorry this is part of why Free to play is hard....people spend money on getting certain items.
I don't use these so my opinion is objective. I am actually a victim of them but I still stand by that if people pay real life money for an item it needs to not be rendered ineffective due to whiners.
I mean, the fact that Teneb damage still hits you after a dodge or goes through SF is one thing. Those need to be addressed because they are direct conflicts that undermine functions which are separate to stats. But everything else being a failure of code, after almost half a year into the game, is questionable. Especially with the fact that Tenebs out of any other enchant has been the most talked about on the forums and the most infamous in game.
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
For those who are whinning about money spent on keys, bla, bla, bla.... It doesnt means anything coz u dont rly need to pay real money to have tenebrous.... U can buy it from AH... probably from people that dont even have a clue how good they are and sell them becasue it worth good extra AD.
Theres still many work to be done with this unbalance PvP but things are getting better.
You don't spend enough on the game for them to care about you not spending more. No one individual does. Further, I highly doubt the ones that paid a great deal of money for this enchantment make up a large percentage of their player base. As such, this threat and others like it are nothing more than dust in the wind to them.
And you believe that after nearly half a year into the game, with Tenebs being the most talked about, sought after and infamous enchant, that they truly never intended for them to function the way they do? That right now in this point in time, they need to be radically changed and redefined? After countless people have spent real money or time in game (pve) to acquire them? Right...
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
dont let the door hit you.
that said, i still think people are justifiably upset with any huge change to such an expensive enchant. they are losing a lot of value. was sorta like the big change to the tier 1 guardian armor set that had been the same for a long time. everyone knew it was overpowered but with such a long time without change, players thought it would just go on indefinitely. when the change did finally come, no one got any compensation for the time and money they put into gathering and customizing their gear. i understand the expensive enchants are an order of magnitude more costly than the gear pieces, but it's the same idea.
If your going to change how the tenebrous works, make it subject to defense, deflect and AC, which like GCTRL already mentioned, goes completely against the definition of necrotic damage, then it might as well be subject to critical strike, power and armor penetration.
I can understand making it subject to dodge, or it not going through soul forge as it counteracts the definition of that enchant, but severely and i would say even blindly nerfing (because if they really did want to make the enchant balanced, and understood its full role and effectiveness in pvp i highly doubt a change like this would ever occur) a core enchant simply because people complain and don't learn how to deal with it when it can very well be done is in my opinion pretty cheap.
Cause looks like there is plenty of whine to go around...
I am all for this fix !!!!
Yet another + 1 Dev's from yet another customer...
So far it seems to be a 5 to 1 ratio or more of people who want tene's gone....
They completely unbalance PvP...
PS: I am loving the admissions of some finally admitting of paying to win.
So does someone with full Dark 10s vs something without, so does someone with a Perfect Vorpal vs someone with a lesser. Whats your point? That better items are better?
If you want to talk about whining, just take a look at the forums a few weeks after Tenes are nerfed and you will find a brand new enchant that people are complaining about.
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
Enchant ? No...
Ability ? that's an everyday thing.
Do you know who you're dealing with here? These are the same people that ignore a thread (the one we're debating in now) which specifically lays out legitimate ways to deal with Tenebs. These are the same people that were crying about how terrible GWFs were while others were running around Sent specced destroying everything, these are the people that will always find a way to complain no matter what. Please quote me on this, because I'm willing to bet real money that when Tenebs are no longer being used, another enchant will pop up to take its place as a scapegoat for overpoweredness.
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
This Fix needs a Donate button !
I wonder how long they have been sitting on the data that proves out this change....
This is where accountability and credibility of an MMO provider should converge not diverge. There have been more questionable "calls" in Neverwinter than I can recall in all the other MMO's I have played in my life combined.
It seems like too much "work" to get something right before releasing....too much "work" to QA things... too much "work" to fix things in a timely manner.
The only thing that seems to NOT take too much "work" is ANY RM Transaction...and even those are subject to flaws and delays.
I have not spent a thin red cent on this game since the Caturday fiasco...if I would not have stopped then, there have been plenty of other reasons since then that seem like the icing on the cake with my decision, however, this is the gravy on the icing on the cake.
This game however seems to be basing their fixes on the opinion of the masses, on who complains the most, to try and satisfy their clientele, which is understandable, but in my opinion fundamentally flawed, you cannot base your changes on the basis that the majority can't deal with a certain aspect of the game, you must look at the higher level, where people fully use everything at their disposal and search far and wide how to create strategies to counteract and deal with every aspect of the game, then after that once something can truly not be dealt with can a change be made, and here a mention a change, something to adjust the imbalance, not a total destruction and nullification of the aspect.
And i say this because if we do look at the highest level of play in this game, the tenebrous enchant has been dealt with, people have learned how to counteract them, how to fight against them and people can beat them, i know many people in this game that do use as well as not use tenebrous and are able to deal with them successfully and do not think they are imbalanced a lot of these i would consider the top players in this game, for something to be imbalanced, over powered, it has to be impossible to deal with, but from what i have experienced, from what i have seen, at the highest level of play, which should always be the focus of game that wants to have a strong fundamental basis, it is clearly not the case.
This change seems to me as if we were playing rock-paper-scissors, and because people complain the rock can never beat the paper, they simply take out the paper, when they fail to see the scissors.
If you have the ad for tenes u also build ur char around it and this results in much more different viable speccs.
Nerfing tenes like that will result in maybe 1-2 viable pvp speccs for each class, not to mention that gwf will be useless even in pvp.
Sure ppl are complaining atm about gwf tene/regen builds but only cuz they dont know how to deal with them or they just dont have the gear for it.
Right now gwfs even with full tenes, have a hard time killing any equal geared person, atleast when u know how to build ur char.
I know ppl are complaining about a fully geared gwf tanking 3 ppl or more in pug pvp but bring up equal geared players against them, they may can 1v1 but 1v2 isnt possible in any way.
But back to the topic.
In my opinion, and i guess lots of high skilled pvp players have the same, tenes are only op if u face ppl that haven't build their char for pvp.
And ye i think that's how it should be when you invested tons of time or even cash in a game you should have a big advantage about the other players.
I'm pretty sure nerfing tenes to the ground will result in lots of pvp players quiting the game, which is dieing anyways atm.
Tenes are the rich men's pvp and u should keep it like that.
Make the dmg dodgeable ok, this will be useless anyway but dont change the way necrotic dmg works.
OH i nearly forgot to say, u only read posts about how op tenes are and that it is to much burst dmg but noone cares about that they are only good when u are <70% hp. Noone cares about the big downside and that even r5 enchants are better than tenes when u are on low hp.
But ye thats how complaining works, dont think about the stuff u are raging at just throw it on the forums
I love how you're so angry against players that have spent money when this game wouldn't even be coming out with more content without the influx of cash from players who have chosen to support it. Perhaps when you grow up and stop collecting an allowance you'll grow to understand that, but for now you can continue being an angry little troll.
I for one will definitely abandon all support to PWE on this game and any future games for 1) the atrocious level of customer support, 2) their ineptitude to fix actual bugs in the game like the gear score bug in pvp, the chat bugs, the fact that barkshield completely negates tenebs 3) the only thing you've managed to do is create a mass hysteria where you have the market being flooded with everyone trying to sell their greater tenebs right now.
Should you be able to dodge them; yes. That tweak makes sense, but to negate what they do and diminish something that currently has plenty of counters is ridiculous. Simple and plain this is a form of bait and switch and I will be addressing this on a higher level if this nerf comes into effect.
Well said sir. I think this should be stickied, or even bolded and pasted on their registration website, to warn future new players of exactly what kind of game they are getting into.
I'll copy paste this to MMOHUT on their review of NWO section.
Generally we will not leave pvp unless we don't get the queue we want against another arranged group OR enemy team has players that have already left. Don't think i've ever partied with anyone that has rage quit even if were losing.
Tranquil is also real money enchant, and look at how ****ty it is. They seriously need to buff tranquil to match the 'post nerfed' tene as both are real money items from lockbox
but i want my tanquil to work ... definitely not on a 1 min cool down... tene has it at 20...