Timeless Grand Regent High General are you alternative if you wanna do dmg Timeless Tank Grand Support High Gen. You cant do all three in 1 T1 set any more you have to pick now witch is how its should be. I swear if one set was the end all be all for GF and it was a T1 set it needed to be obliterated maby you kid will learn how to actually play your class now instead of piggy backing on a armor set to carry you.
Using any of those sets will let me by magic transfer all my gems/dyes/enchants/transmog from my Stalwark to any of those sets for free?
or i will have to spend 3M AD just for that?it took me all this time since OB to complete the set, gettting rank7/8 gems,a soulforge and the right looks for my set... now it went to trash... if we had a T3 coming with the new module i would not complain because i know that from time to time we get upgrades and have to change sets... but that is NOT the case...
you should really shut up before saying **** like that, but morons like you that like to act superior by calling others "kid ..
im not asking fo an armor set to carry me and believe me that i know how to play my GF.
want me to teach you ? because in your eyes anyone that have stalwark is a kid that dont know how to play.?
what im saying is that i can cope with class nerfs, every MMO has them.... but radicaly changing an armor set after 3 months , when people spent MILLIONS OF AD ON IT without having a clear upgrade (t3) is stupid... so again stfu please.
Change it to t2 then if some people are super attached to what number comes after "T" and it wasnt the only option. Theres timeless its a choice of either burst or sustained dmg... Most class anyways only have one or two set that would be considered best of the best. So whats the diff?
when a T1 defensive set lets you be more offensive then the BiS T2 dps set that's a problem slapping the bonus on grand regents would not have solved any thing now the best defensive set hand down is also the best offensive set. With stalwarts i could basically go down the protector tree and still have dps as good as a con GF. We have three endgame T2 Sets for a reason you pick one build on it and you have your own unique GF each set has to have its weaknesses and strengths. Having a T1 set so powerful its main bonus canceled out its weakness and made it better then the Tier of gears that's suppose to be superior to it is HAMSTER.
Using anyone of those sets will let me by magic transfer all my gems/dyes/enchants/transmog from my Stalwark to any of those sets for free?
or i will have to spend 3M AD just for that?it took me all this time since OB to complete the set, gettting rank7/8 gems,a soulforge and the right looks for my set... now it went to trash... if we had a T3 coming with the new module i would not complain because i know that from time to time we get upgrades and have to change sets... but that is NOT the case...
you should really shut up before saying **** like that, but morons like you that like to act superior by calling others "kid ..
im not asking fo an armor set to carry me and believe me that i know how to play my GF.
want me to teach you ? because in your eyes anyone that have stalwark is a kid that dont know how to play.?
what im saying is that i can cope with class nerfs, every MMO has them.... but radicaly changing an armor set after 3 months , when people spent MILLIONS OF AD ON IT without having a clear upgrade (t3) is stupid... so again stfu please.
The only Gems in that whole 4 piece armor set worth taking out are the Chest piece for the armor enchantment other then that suck it up and re rune you kids knew what you were getting into when you got the gear if you didn't think stalwarts was not gonna get Nerf with that kinda set bonus you were in Denial. If you saying millions of AD on you accessory's and pants and shirt because you build your toon around the set thats on you and if i were to be kind and say we need compensation it would be for the 4 pieces of gear they changed the rest is on you the player.
when a T1 defensive set lets you be more offensive then the BiS T2 dps set that's a problem slapping the bonus on grand regents would not have solved any thing now the best defensive set hand down is also the best offensive set. With stalwarts i could basically go down the protector tree and still have dps as good as a con GF. We have three endgame T2 Sets for a reason you pick one build on it and you have your own unique GF each set has to have its weaknesses and strengths. Having a T1 set so powerful its main bonus canceled out its weakness and made it better then the Tier of gears that's suppose to be superior to it is HAMSTER.
timeless vs stalwart
if DPS = timeless wins
stalwart adds 8k+ power but how strong/weak does 8k power really is
arpen > crit > power
example
lunging strike with no stalwart stack = 3.5k damage
with max stalwart stack (8k+ power) = 4.5k to 5k damage
stalwart is op for t1 rank but it is not so OP in terms of adding damage
you will deal more damage using 2knight captain 2high general piece +850arpen (not sure if its still 850 arpen)but it doesnt have deflect
players choose stalwart bec it will make you tough and adds damage
timeless vs stalwart
if DPS = timeless wins
stalwart adds 8k+ power but how strong/weak does 8k power really is
arpen > crit > power
example
lunging strike with no stalwart stack = 3.5k damage
with max stalwart stack (8k+ power) = 4.5k to 5k damage
stalwart is op for t1 rank but it is not so OP in terms of adding damage
you will deal more damage using 2knight captain 2high general piece +850arpen (not sure if its still 850 arpen)but it doesnt have deflect
players choose stalwart bec it will make you tough and adds damage
Troll ge dont give me this Bull**** all you need to make Stalwarts a lethal offensive set was Tene enchants boom unmitigated dmg
You Could also hit the armor pen cap with stalwarts with necromancer rings high dex and at least 1.5k armor pen witch was easy to get and i could still get 616 crit with all while hiting a 4.5k defense and having about 28k health that so plz don't tell me about missing states i am talking about [PvP you can hit all mile stones easy in PvE with a cat or stone so..
timeless vs stalwart
if DPS = timeless wins
stalwart adds 8k+ power but how strong/weak does 8k power really is
arpen > crit > power
example
lunging strike with no stalwart stack = 3.5k damage
with max stalwart stack (8k+ power) = 4.5k to 5k damage
It takes a lot of crit to equal a (4.75 / 3.5) - 1 = ~35.7% aggregate damage bonus (per your numbers). I don't think you have a firm handle on the argument you just made.
Yes, as a general principle, power is a weak offensive stat, but Stalwart offered so much power that the point is moot. You know how much power the average epic-equipped CW has in total? Anywhere from 3,000 to 4,000. By itself, Stalwart could give you a consistent power bonus of 7,000+. We can argue, legitimately, that the developers overrate the power stat in relation to others (ArPen, Crit, Recovery), but given the current design of the game, the sheer amount of power that Stalwart offered was out of whack.
The fact that Stalwart's damage bonus also scaled with a defensive attribute (Health) is icing on the cake. The fact that Stalwart's damage bonus was also perhaps the most user-friendly in the game is yet another layer of icing. You put on the armor, and as long as you were getting attacked the damage bonus would max itself out in short order. That's in stark contrast to most any other set bonus, which typically requires the regular use of certain powers (or power types).
I'm not saying that I agree with the particulars of the nerf, but it was pretty obvious that Stalwart was gonna get adjusted somehow, eventually. It definitely sucks if you invested significant resources in the acquisition/transmutation/tinting/enchanting of the armor, though, no question.
I'm not saying that I agree with the particulars of the nerf, but it was pretty obvious that Stalwart was gonna get adjusted somehow, eventually. It definitely sucks if you invested significant resources in the acquisition/transmutation/tinting/enchanting of the armor, though, no question.
That kind of argument is not relevant. You expect players to be afraid at every aspect in the game or second guess about what developers may or may not do or their intentions? I mean you could quite easily argue entire classes, like TR or CW are so out of whack with other classes that no one should play them, for example.
Yet here we all are many months down the line including AFTER the game has been released and with many paying customers, especially founders.
It seems clear to me, it is the purely the developers who should take and deal responsibly with the problems that they themselves have created. Zero'ing out a set is not dealing reasponsibly, it is just an easy way out for them.
That kind of argument is not really relevant. You expect players to be afraid at every aspect in the game about what developers may or may not do or their intentions? I mean you could quite easily argue entire classes, like TR or CW are so out of whack with other classes that no one should play them.
Hey, I didn't say it was an ideal situation, but MMOs are what they are. Everything in them is subject to change. Therefore you're gonna get burned occasionally; the only way to minimize how often you get burned is to (try to) judge how likely it is that this-or-that mechanic will be changed.
In the case of Stalwart, I think the change was inevitable given the overall itemization scheme. You're free to believe otherwise, but to say that the Stalwart nerf proves that literally any arguable imbalance now qualifies as a risky investment is to take it too far, IMO. The scale between obviously too powerful and obviously too weak is a continuum; it's not black-and-white, but it's also not so nebulous that you can't make reasonable judgments about it.
CWs and TRs aren't going to be swept from the game, in other words.
It seems clear to me, it is the purely the developers who should take and deal responsibly with the problems that they themselves have created. Zero'ing out a set is not dealing reasponsibly.
Troll ge dont give me this Bull**** all you need to make Stalwarts a lethal offensive set was Tene enchants boom unmitigated dmg
You Could also hit the armor pen cap with stalwarts with necromancer rings high dex and at least 1.5k armor pen witch was easy to get and i could still get 616 crit with all while hiting a 4.5k defense and having about 28k health that so plz don't tell me about missing states i am talking about [PvP you can hit all mile stones easy in PvE with a cat or stone so..
there you answered for yourself whats really OP and how does GF 1 hit other players
im using stalwart but no tene enchants and i can say it doesnt add OP damage im not conqueror spec
and you also said you can hit arpen cap with just accessories at pvp? (pvp = companion off) i dont think you can have 15% or above unless you use perfect enchants
havent tried timeless but when you crit damage is almost doubled it might be only a chance but chance of criting with timeless is high
so dps = timeless > stalwart
survivability = stalwart
stalwart set now is greater than t1 but not greater than t2 dps set
it will be nerfed but the reworked 4 set is useless
That kind of argument is not relevant. You expect players to be afraid at every aspect in the game or second guess about what developers may or may not do or their intentions? I mean you could quite easily argue entire classes, like TR or CW are so out of whack with other classes that no one should play them, for example.
Yet here we all are many months down the line including AFTER the game has been released and with many paying customers, especially founders.
It seems clear to me, it is the purely the developers who should take and deal responsibly with the problems that they themselves have created. Zero'ing out a set is not dealing reasponsibly, it is just an easy way out for them.
Jesus man the only GF armor set you had to second guess on was Stalwarts why again Its T1 set that vastly over powered every other T1 and T2 set FOR THE CLASS did you really think it would not get hit with the nerf bat cause the other sets are fine as is every fool with this set is stuck in some kinda i didn't know it mite get nerfed mentality.
there you answered for yourself whats really OP and how does GF 1 hit other players
im using stalwart but no tene enchants and i can say it doesnt add OP damage im not conqueror spec
and you also said you can hit arpen cap with just accessories at pvp? (pvp = companion off) i dont think you can have 15% or above unless you use perfect enchants
havent tried timeless but when you crit damage is almost doubled it might be only a chance but chance of criting with timeless is high
so dps = timeless > stalwart
survivability = stalwart
stalwart set now is greater than t1 but not greater than t2 dps set
it will be nerfed but the reworked 4 set is useless
I can out dps and out kill players in timeless gear with stalwarts gear with Necromancer rings of belt of revolt necklaces of revolt with 4 rank 10 dark's and 5 rank 10 radiant s in the 5 defense slots i get and have 616 crit. The only stats i lacked was crit but it didn't matter i had about 10% crit chance witch was enough also a bonus is i have over 45% dmg resist and 20% deflect and alot of regen so i most defiantly outlived a timeless user
it's is very unfair. People spend time, money, ad, gold... to build a toon and devs destroy everything. It is a complete waste of time. I was thinking about buying fyewld pack, but of course now it's time to quit this game. Just last day a friend quitted neverwinter and started to play another mmorpg.
devps are thiefs. They steal our money and time. They trick players. They are thiefs that only think how steal money instead of make a good game.
And again people keep repeating the same thing... "Blah blah blah you should have seen the nerf" this is not a nerf where its power is reduced, its a completely diff set, a set that was not the one people invested time and money into.
And again people keep repeating the same thing... "Blah blah blah you should have seen the nerf" this is not a nerf where its power is reduced, its a completely diff set, a set that was not the one people invested time and money into.
Absolutely correct, and that's where you have a clear grievance: Stalwart could have been adjusted in any number of ways without changing the entire character of the set's bonus. The most logical change would probably be either a reduction in the magnitude of the power/damage buff, or a nerf to the conditional requirements for the buff (which were basically non-existent).
Unfortunately, the developers did both, which I think is unreasonable.
timeless is better in every way whats wrong with you all >.<
When timeless can give me 10+k power and with out having to actually socket on rings and accessory then it mite be better then current stalwarts. Currently Stalwarts is better hands down for PvP and PvE
really tired of doing same explanation over and over again go look my post you will see
its just a stupid ,slow,bugged set that got what it deserves.
The dmg in this game comes from the critical not from the 10k hit every 20 seconds ....
now we witness the fall of the most GF due to re-spec and unbind ..see ya all after you finish your monthly farm -.-
really tired of doing same explanation over and over again go look my post you will see
its just a stupid ,slow,bugged set that got what it deserves.
The dmg in this game comes from the critical not from the 10k hit every 20 seconds ....
now we witness the fall of the most GF due to re-spec and unbind ..see ya all in 10 years
The numerical comparison is pretty cut-and-dry. It doesn't support your conclusion.
If you have some other (non-quantifiable) reason for arguing the superiority of Timeless, then that's fine, but you'll forgive me if I don't go out of my way to sift through your post history to find your argument.
why timeless is better than stalwart when it comes to DPS
its has high recovery and crit chance
at pvp if all your encounters are on cd you will be just like an audience faster skill CD = better at pvp
crit chance
stalwart adds power
max stack = 1k-1.5k damage
were talking about DPS here not toughness and no tene enchants
timeless is garbage for PvP and I've proven it time and again vs. timeless players. The ONLY time timeless player will beat a tank/dps player is if the timeless player is using Knights Challenge and 2 shots. Which means nothing as 2 shotting a player takes no skill and timeless players are glass canon and destroyed by CC.
This is why in competitive PvP STAL was the set used because it gives both tank stats and offensive power. If the STAL rework goes thru I already have a set that's much better than STAL and the HP Regen PvP Tank is going stronger than ever. I'm currently over 2k HP ticks with the new set and my damage is comparable to STAL.
Simply replaced Head, Arms & Boots for other blues and have tons more regeneration. I went from 9.6% Regen to 11.2% Regen and now even harder to kill and gained deflection to almost 30%.
If the purpose of nerfing the STAL set was to "Balance" the GF class Cryptic has no idea how the GF class works. But the more you nerf the "TOP" end builds the harder you make the game for all new players. Cryptic stop trying to balance end game gear as you can't without nerfing all players coming up the ranks and making the game unplayable or to easy. When a player has Best in Slot gear/enchants they should be godly because that's why they worked so hard. Remember that when you are thinking about nerfs.
why timeless is better than stalwart when it comes to DPS
its has high recovery and crit chance
at pvp if all your encounters are on cd you will be just like an audience faster skill CD = better at pvp
crit chance
stalwart adds power
max stack = 1k-1.5k damage
were talking about DPS here not toughness and no tene enchants
Right. The question is how much DPS you think crit adds versus the power from Stalwart. Based on your own numbers posted earlier, you estimated that Stalwart added approximately a 35% aggregate damage boost to your powers.
Do you even know how much crit rating you'd need to equal a 35% boost in overall damage? Hint: each point of critical chance doesn't even correspond to a percentage point of aggregate DPS: a guy wearing Stalwart will realistically have some amount of critical rating himself, so in order to perform a good-faith comparison, you have to take the difference in crit rate between the Timeless wearer and a Stalwart wearer.
And in order to even have a hope of beating out Stalwart's DPS benefit through crit, you'd have to maximize critical severity, which means you're stuck with Vorpal enchantments. So again, in order to make a good-faith comparison, we must assume that the Stalwart wearer is using the best-case weapon enchantment to correspond with the Timeless wearer's Vorpal.
All of the above assumes, of course, that you are serious about discussing DPS. On the other hand, if you're just making a "crit means higher individual numbers" argument, then that's fine, but please do recognize that what you're discussing is not, in fact, DPS, but rather a randomized, situational, and frankly ambiguous trade off between peak spike damage and consistent damage output.
Right. The question is how much DPS you think crit adds versus the power from Stalwart. Based on your own numbers posted earlier, you estimated that Stalwart added approximately a 35% aggregate damage boost to your powers.
Do you even know how much crit rating you'd need to equal a 35% boost in overall damage? Hint: each point of critical chance doesn't even correspond to a percentage point of aggregate DPS: a guy wearing Stalwart will realistically have some amount of critical rating himself, so in order to perform a good-faith comparison, you have to take the difference in crit rate between the Timeless wearer and a Stalwart wearer.
And in order to even have a hope of beating out Stalwart's DPS benefit through crit, you'd have to maximize critical severity, which means you're stuck with Vorpal enchantments. So again, in order to make a good-faith comparison, we must assume that the Stalwart wearer is using the best-case weapon enchantment to correspond with the Timeless wearer's Vorpal.
All of the above assumes, of course, that you are serious about discussing DPS. On the other hand, if you're just making a "LOL crit means higher numbers" argument, then that's fine, but please do recognize that what you're discussing is not, in fact, DPS, but rather a randomized, situational, and frankly ambiguous trade off between peak spike damage and consistent damage output.
You say it bro. It's only a dream, that crit kill that dps increase.
At first we have to kill the critrates itself.
For example:
100 attacks do 100 damage
8% critchange with 175% of the normal damage.
So it's 1400 with crit + 9200 damage noncrit = 10600 total damge in over 100 attacks.
Now it's only 30% increase in damage:
Now 10600*1,3 = 13780 damage!
Stand 100 damage with x% critchance:
~137,8 damage every hit.
So you NEED 50,1% critchance!!!!!!!
100*50 + 175*50 = 5000 noncrit + 8750 critdamage = 13750 ~ 13780.
50%?! critchance? Show me how you will this arrive!
Okay you have perfect vorpal:
Now you 'only' need:
30% critchance!!!
100*70 + 225*30 = 7000 noncrit + 6750 critdamage = 13750 ~ 13780.
Show how you will reach 30% critchance? And your 'stalwart-user' haven't to use any weapon enhancement!
Right. The question is how much DPS you think crit adds versus the power from Stalwart. Based on your own numbers posted earlier, you estimated that Stalwart added approximately a 35% aggregate damage boost to your powers.
Do you even know how much crit rating you'd need to equal a 35% boost in overall damage? Hint: each point of critical chance doesn't even correspond to a percentage point of aggregate DPS: a guy wearing Stalwart will realistically have some amount of critical rating himself, so in order to perform a good-faith comparison, you have to take the difference in crit rate between the Timeless wearer and a Stalwart wearer.
And in order to even have a hope of beating out Stalwart's DPS benefit through crit, you'd have to maximize critical severity, which means you're stuck with Vorpal enchantments. So again, in order to make a good-faith comparison, we must assume that the Stalwart wearer is using the best-case weapon enchantment to correspond with the Timeless wearer's Vorpal.
All of the above assumes, of course, that you are serious about discussing DPS. On the other hand, if you're just making a "crit means higher individual numbers" argument, then that's fine, but please do recognize that what you're discussing is not, in fact, DPS, but rather a randomized, situational, and frankly ambiguous trade off between peak spike damage and consistent damage output.
its not 35% and i dont remember posting anything that it adds 30% damage checked it again with 3 skills
crit severity adds fixed damage x.75 if im correct
lunging for ex 2591 if it crit (x.75) = 4534
see how high crit adds? you just need 1 or 2 crit proc for all 3 stalwart encountar damage
and timeless has high recovery making it better DPS than stalwart
crit severity adds fixed damage x.75 if im correct
lunging for ex 2591 if it crit (x.75) = 4534
see how high crit adds? you just need 1 or 2 crit proc for all 3 stalwart encountar damage
and timeless has high recovery making it better DPS than stalwart
The recovery it gives dosent even shave much of the recharge time off co pared to the raw DPS you get from stalwarts i have full timeless and if it were half as good for PvP as Stalwarts i would love it a lil more but it not it can have all the recovery it wants its still a **** dps set.
You posted before that Stalwart increased your Lunging Strike damage from 3.5k to 4.5-5k. If we average the latter range, we end up with 4.75k, for an average gain of 1.25k.
1.25 / 3.5 = 0.357, or 35.7%.
Do keep in mind that there is a wide variance on all powers' damage; so in order to really know the damage number for a particular power, you need an average. But sure, let's look at your new numbers:
Lunging Strike: 1153 / 2623 = 43.9% net gain Bull Charge: 992 / 2826 = 35.1% net gain Frontline Surge: 865/2308 = 37.4% net gain
The point stands. According to the Wiki, the Timeless Hero set offers a max of three stacks of 450 crit rating, or 1350 crit rating in total. I don't have access to the game right now to verify, so please do correct me if that's wrong, but for the sake of argument, let's roll with 1350.
1350 crit rating, assuming you have zero to begin with, confers 10.3% crit chance.
Granted, Timeless also gives you roughly 900 more Recovery than Stalwart does, but you're asking an awful lot of 900 Recovery, which doesn't even add to DPS in a straightforward way (because any time shaved from your encounters could have been spent spamming At-Wills, and although At-Wills usually don't do as much damage as encounter powers do, they do deliver some damage.)
crit severity adds fixed damage x.75 if im correct
lunging for ex 2591 if it crit (x.75) = 4534
see how high crit adds? you just need 1 or 2 crit proc for all 3 stalwart encountar damage
and timeless has high recovery making it better DPS than stalwart
That's not how DPS works. When you crit, yes, you get an impressive damage number. Timeless will increase the frequency of your crits, but it leaves you with lower damage otherwise. The question is whether Timeless increases your damage output in total more than Stalwart does.
And so far, everything you've posted on the subject suggests that the answer to that question is not just no, but hell no.
What difference makes in your enjoyement a 5-10% difference as long as you gather and hold agro? seriously, why is it even important? the only work you're required to do as a GF is to gather and hold agro, and that is the same with stalwart or timeless, and is you're skilled the runs will be as fun and smooth in one set or another...
crit severity adds fixed damage x.75 if im correct
lunging for ex 2591 if it crit (x.75) = 4534
see how high crit adds? you just need 1 or 2 crit proc for all 3 stalwart encountar damage
and timeless has high recovery making it better DPS than stalwart
You fail to add that you can also crit while you have you stalwarts on too so not only are you doing more damage per hit but your critical hits do more damage. Taking from your examples if you crit with the max stacks on for lunging strike 3775 x (1.75) = 6606.25
i have 27% crit chance with my timeless stack .. my base is 1300 + 1350 = 2650 + 3% critical feat = 27% crit which is satisfyingly recent crit ratio and i must say i really crits often. Recovery is 2100 / rings and neck included / that puts my lunge strike on 6.0 seconds cooldown which is enough to maintain my timeless stack... my other 2 others are bull - 8.2 secs. , knee - 10.2 seconds so tell me how can i stop the rotation ? I can stun lock + crit as much as i want on some GWF's. On averege i do 3700- 4500 with lunge strike so dont give me that stal bs it totaly fails Vs timeless.If you want to be competitive with all the rogues and cw's timeless is the way...
However i must say i do PVP and GG only and it really owns.
Now please dont post useless comments unless you know what your talking about as i see most of you dont even have lvl 60's... you just use the info you wred somewhere ....
@ dkcandy no doubt that you are a good player and you know what your talking about i really respect that... but you must understand that i had the chance to try stal and then try timeless ... Timeless is way better as it delivers much more results that that brut dmg on hit and 1k more defense.Just think about how further you can go on your timeless build ....
Comments
Using any of those sets will let me by magic transfer all my gems/dyes/enchants/transmog from my Stalwark to any of those sets for free?
or i will have to spend 3M AD just for that?it took me all this time since OB to complete the set, gettting rank7/8 gems,a soulforge and the right looks for my set... now it went to trash... if we had a T3 coming with the new module i would not complain because i know that from time to time we get upgrades and have to change sets... but that is NOT the case...
you should really shut up before saying **** like that, but morons like you that like to act superior by calling others "kid ..
im not asking fo an armor set to carry me and believe me that i know how to play my GF.
want me to teach you ? because in your eyes anyone that have stalwark is a kid that dont know how to play.?
what im saying is that i can cope with class nerfs, every MMO has them.... but radicaly changing an armor set after 3 months , when people spent MILLIONS OF AD ON IT without having a clear upgrade (t3) is stupid... so again stfu please.
when a T1 defensive set lets you be more offensive then the BiS T2 dps set that's a problem slapping the bonus on grand regents would not have solved any thing now the best defensive set hand down is also the best offensive set. With stalwarts i could basically go down the protector tree and still have dps as good as a con GF. We have three endgame T2 Sets for a reason you pick one build on it and you have your own unique GF each set has to have its weaknesses and strengths. Having a T1 set so powerful its main bonus canceled out its weakness and made it better then the Tier of gears that's suppose to be superior to it is HAMSTER.
The only Gems in that whole 4 piece armor set worth taking out are the Chest piece for the armor enchantment other then that suck it up and re rune you kids knew what you were getting into when you got the gear if you didn't think stalwarts was not gonna get Nerf with that kinda set bonus you were in Denial. If you saying millions of AD on you accessory's and pants and shirt because you build your toon around the set thats on you and if i were to be kind and say we need compensation it would be for the 4 pieces of gear they changed the rest is on you the player.
timeless vs stalwart
if DPS = timeless wins
stalwart adds 8k+ power but how strong/weak does 8k power really is
arpen > crit > power
example
lunging strike with no stalwart stack = 3.5k damage
with max stalwart stack (8k+ power) = 4.5k to 5k damage
stalwart is op for t1 rank but it is not so OP in terms of adding damage
you will deal more damage using 2knight captain 2high general piece +850arpen (not sure if its still 850 arpen)but it doesnt have deflect
players choose stalwart bec it will make you tough and adds damage
Troll ge dont give me this Bull**** all you need to make Stalwarts a lethal offensive set was Tene enchants boom unmitigated dmg
You Could also hit the armor pen cap with stalwarts with necromancer rings high dex and at least 1.5k armor pen witch was easy to get and i could still get 616 crit with all while hiting a 4.5k defense and having about 28k health that so plz don't tell me about missing states i am talking about [PvP you can hit all mile stones easy in PvE with a cat or stone so..
It takes a lot of crit to equal a (4.75 / 3.5) - 1 = ~35.7% aggregate damage bonus (per your numbers). I don't think you have a firm handle on the argument you just made.
Yes, as a general principle, power is a weak offensive stat, but Stalwart offered so much power that the point is moot. You know how much power the average epic-equipped CW has in total? Anywhere from 3,000 to 4,000. By itself, Stalwart could give you a consistent power bonus of 7,000+. We can argue, legitimately, that the developers overrate the power stat in relation to others (ArPen, Crit, Recovery), but given the current design of the game, the sheer amount of power that Stalwart offered was out of whack.
The fact that Stalwart's damage bonus also scaled with a defensive attribute (Health) is icing on the cake. The fact that Stalwart's damage bonus was also perhaps the most user-friendly in the game is yet another layer of icing. You put on the armor, and as long as you were getting attacked the damage bonus would max itself out in short order. That's in stark contrast to most any other set bonus, which typically requires the regular use of certain powers (or power types).
I'm not saying that I agree with the particulars of the nerf, but it was pretty obvious that Stalwart was gonna get adjusted somehow, eventually. It definitely sucks if you invested significant resources in the acquisition/transmutation/tinting/enchanting of the armor, though, no question.
That kind of argument is not relevant. You expect players to be afraid at every aspect in the game or second guess about what developers may or may not do or their intentions? I mean you could quite easily argue entire classes, like TR or CW are so out of whack with other classes that no one should play them, for example.
Yet here we all are many months down the line including AFTER the game has been released and with many paying customers, especially founders.
It seems clear to me, it is the purely the developers who should take and deal responsibly with the problems that they themselves have created. Zero'ing out a set is not dealing reasponsibly, it is just an easy way out for them.
Hey, I didn't say it was an ideal situation, but MMOs are what they are. Everything in them is subject to change. Therefore you're gonna get burned occasionally; the only way to minimize how often you get burned is to (try to) judge how likely it is that this-or-that mechanic will be changed.
In the case of Stalwart, I think the change was inevitable given the overall itemization scheme. You're free to believe otherwise, but to say that the Stalwart nerf proves that literally any arguable imbalance now qualifies as a risky investment is to take it too far, IMO. The scale between obviously too powerful and obviously too weak is a continuum; it's not black-and-white, but it's also not so nebulous that you can't make reasonable judgments about it.
CWs and TRs aren't going to be swept from the game, in other words.
How would you propose they do that?
im using stalwart but no tene enchants and i can say it doesnt add OP damage im not conqueror spec
and you also said you can hit arpen cap with just accessories at pvp? (pvp = companion off) i dont think you can have 15% or above unless you use perfect enchants
havent tried timeless but when you crit damage is almost doubled it might be only a chance but chance of criting with timeless is high
so dps = timeless > stalwart
survivability = stalwart
stalwart set now is greater than t1 but not greater than t2 dps set
it will be nerfed but the reworked 4 set is useless
Jesus man the only GF armor set you had to second guess on was Stalwarts why again Its T1 set that vastly over powered every other T1 and T2 set FOR THE CLASS did you really think it would not get hit with the nerf bat cause the other sets are fine as is every fool with this set is stuck in some kinda i didn't know it mite get nerfed mentality.
Again, that statement is wrong, according to your own numbers.
I can out dps and out kill players in timeless gear with stalwarts gear with Necromancer rings of belt of revolt necklaces of revolt with 4 rank 10 dark's and 5 rank 10 radiant s in the 5 defense slots i get and have 616 crit. The only stats i lacked was crit but it didn't matter i had about 10% crit chance witch was enough also a bonus is i have over 45% dmg resist and 20% deflect and alot of regen so i most defiantly outlived a timeless user
devps are thiefs. They steal our money and time. They trick players. They are thiefs that only think how steal money instead of make a good game.
Immediatly quit neverwinter.
Absolutely correct, and that's where you have a clear grievance: Stalwart could have been adjusted in any number of ways without changing the entire character of the set's bonus. The most logical change would probably be either a reduction in the magnitude of the power/damage buff, or a nerf to the conditional requirements for the buff (which were basically non-existent).
Unfortunately, the developers did both, which I think is unreasonable.
Timeless is better currently? That is, before the Stalwart nerf goes live?
Please do explain your reasoning for that judgment.
really tired of doing same explanation over and over again go look my post you will see
its just a stupid ,slow,bugged set that got what it deserves.
The dmg in this game comes from the critical not from the 10k hit every 20 seconds ....
now we witness the fall of the most GF due to re-spec and unbind ..see ya all after you finish your monthly farm -.-
The numerical comparison is pretty cut-and-dry. It doesn't support your conclusion.
If you have some other (non-quantifiable) reason for arguing the superiority of Timeless, then that's fine, but you'll forgive me if I don't go out of my way to sift through your post history to find your argument.
its has high recovery and crit chance
at pvp if all your encounters are on cd you will be just like an audience faster skill CD = better at pvp
crit chance
stalwart adds power
max stack = 1k-1.5k damage
were talking about DPS here not toughness and no tene enchants
This is why in competitive PvP STAL was the set used because it gives both tank stats and offensive power. If the STAL rework goes thru I already have a set that's much better than STAL and the HP Regen PvP Tank is going stronger than ever. I'm currently over 2k HP ticks with the new set and my damage is comparable to STAL.
Simply replaced Head, Arms & Boots for other blues and have tons more regeneration. I went from 9.6% Regen to 11.2% Regen and now even harder to kill and gained deflection to almost 30%.
If the purpose of nerfing the STAL set was to "Balance" the GF class Cryptic has no idea how the GF class works. But the more you nerf the "TOP" end builds the harder you make the game for all new players. Cryptic stop trying to balance end game gear as you can't without nerfing all players coming up the ranks and making the game unplayable or to easy. When a player has Best in Slot gear/enchants they should be godly because that's why they worked so hard. Remember that when you are thinking about nerfs.
Right. The question is how much DPS you think crit adds versus the power from Stalwart. Based on your own numbers posted earlier, you estimated that Stalwart added approximately a 35% aggregate damage boost to your powers.
Do you even know how much crit rating you'd need to equal a 35% boost in overall damage? Hint: each point of critical chance doesn't even correspond to a percentage point of aggregate DPS: a guy wearing Stalwart will realistically have some amount of critical rating himself, so in order to perform a good-faith comparison, you have to take the difference in crit rate between the Timeless wearer and a Stalwart wearer.
And in order to even have a hope of beating out Stalwart's DPS benefit through crit, you'd have to maximize critical severity, which means you're stuck with Vorpal enchantments. So again, in order to make a good-faith comparison, we must assume that the Stalwart wearer is using the best-case weapon enchantment to correspond with the Timeless wearer's Vorpal.
All of the above assumes, of course, that you are serious about discussing DPS. On the other hand, if you're just making a "crit means higher individual numbers" argument, then that's fine, but please do recognize that what you're discussing is not, in fact, DPS, but rather a randomized, situational, and frankly ambiguous trade off between peak spike damage and consistent damage output.
You say it bro. It's only a dream, that crit kill that dps increase.
At first we have to kill the critrates itself.
For example:
100 attacks do 100 damage
8% critchange with 175% of the normal damage.
So it's 1400 with crit + 9200 damage noncrit = 10600 total damge in over 100 attacks.
Now it's only 30% increase in damage:
Now 10600*1,3 = 13780 damage!
Stand 100 damage with x% critchance:
~137,8 damage every hit.
So you NEED 50,1% critchance!!!!!!!
100*50 + 175*50 = 5000 noncrit + 8750 critdamage = 13750 ~ 13780.
50%?! critchance? Show me how you will this arrive!
Okay you have perfect vorpal:
Now you 'only' need:
30% critchance!!!
100*70 + 225*30 = 7000 noncrit + 6750 critdamage = 13750 ~ 13780.
Show how you will reach 30% critchance? And your 'stalwart-user' haven't to use any weapon enhancement!
its not 35% and i dont remember posting anything that it adds 30% damage checked it again with 3 skills
max stalwart / no stalwart / damage added
Lunging strike 3775 / 2623 / 1153
Bull charge 3748 / 2826 / 992
frontline surge 3173 / 2308 / 865
crit severity adds fixed damage x.75 if im correct
lunging for ex 2591 if it crit (x.75) = 4534
see how high crit adds? you just need 1 or 2 crit proc for all 3 stalwart encountar damage
and timeless has high recovery making it better DPS than stalwart
The recovery it gives dosent even shave much of the recharge time off co pared to the raw DPS you get from stalwarts i have full timeless and if it were half as good for PvP as Stalwarts i would love it a lil more but it not it can have all the recovery it wants its still a **** dps set.
You posted before that Stalwart increased your Lunging Strike damage from 3.5k to 4.5-5k. If we average the latter range, we end up with 4.75k, for an average gain of 1.25k.
1.25 / 3.5 = 0.357, or 35.7%.
Do keep in mind that there is a wide variance on all powers' damage; so in order to really know the damage number for a particular power, you need an average. But sure, let's look at your new numbers:
Lunging Strike: 1153 / 2623 = 43.9% net gain
Bull Charge: 992 / 2826 = 35.1% net gain
Frontline Surge: 865/2308 = 37.4% net gain
The point stands. According to the Wiki, the Timeless Hero set offers a max of three stacks of 450 crit rating, or 1350 crit rating in total. I don't have access to the game right now to verify, so please do correct me if that's wrong, but for the sake of argument, let's roll with 1350.
1350 crit rating, assuming you have zero to begin with, confers 10.3% crit chance.
Granted, Timeless also gives you roughly 900 more Recovery than Stalwart does, but you're asking an awful lot of 900 Recovery, which doesn't even add to DPS in a straightforward way (because any time shaved from your encounters could have been spent spamming At-Wills, and although At-Wills usually don't do as much damage as encounter powers do, they do deliver some damage.)
That's not how DPS works. When you crit, yes, you get an impressive damage number. Timeless will increase the frequency of your crits, but it leaves you with lower damage otherwise. The question is whether Timeless increases your damage output in total more than Stalwart does.
And so far, everything you've posted on the subject suggests that the answer to that question is not just no, but hell no.
You fail to add that you can also crit while you have you stalwarts on too so not only are you doing more damage per hit but your critical hits do more damage. Taking from your examples if you crit with the max stacks on for lunging strike 3775 x (1.75) = 6606.25
However i must say i do PVP and GG only and it really owns.
Now please dont post useless comments unless you know what your talking about as i see most of you dont even have lvl 60's... you just use the info you wred somewhere ....
@ dkcandy no doubt that you are a good player and you know what your talking about i really respect that... but you must understand that i had the chance to try stal and then try timeless ... Timeless is way better as it delivers much more results that that brut dmg on hit and 1k more defense.Just think about how further you can go on your timeless build ....