I use a Stalwart set, have a lot of nice stuff in it, and i think it was time that the set got reworked. It was redicolously overpowered. Come on, it's T1, easy to get ( Cloak tower anyone?) and it outperformes most T2 sets (depending on the build of cause).
I am not saying, i saw this coming (the changes are not live and who knows what will happen) but a giant nerf to the stalwart set is only logical.
Yes, it would be nice, if they'd let us remove the enchants and stuff for free, but i doubt it. Why should they. It's not like the set is completely worthless. The nerf is huge but it is still a decent T1 set and we will be able to play just fine with it, not as good as before but it's not like we will be stripped naked.
The way some people here are talking, it sounds like nerf or reworks on items should not be allowed, especially if they are popular, because people will have invested in these items. I am wondering what happens when (if ever) they get around to rework that tene enchant. That will be fun.
I see a lot of people saying that everyone should just deal with it because they should have expected the nerf. The big difference is it is a "Rework" not a nerf. They are changing the mechanics of the set completely. You expect things to get nerfed in a MMO from time to time and you have to live with it. This is a total change making the set into something else. I firmly believe everyone with this armor set should get their armor unslotted for free. They should not have to lose all the time/money they invested in something that was fundamentally changed.
Another argument I see is people saying the armor was never guaranteed to be BIS so you would eventually want to upgrade to something else at some point anyway. That is 100% true, but at that point it is a choice. You still have the armor you invested in and you can CHOSE to invest in a different set. If you don't want to you still have the armor you chose to use. This "Rework" is not a choice. Sure the armor is still usable, it didn't disappear, but almost no one would have spent a fortune enchanting it if it had the proposed set bonus from the beginning.
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petpet2Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
The current Stalwart gives me an extra 300 damage with max stacks of 5.
The new Stalwart gives 200 damage, with max stack of 10. not too much difference i think.
This is one of those things that I feel (if I were a game designer) that you just would have to swallow your pride, admit you made a balance mistake and try not to repeat it in the future. The set bonus has been in the game far too long to finally be changed. I'm sympathetic to those who have invested millions in this set, but extremely happy I didn't pull the trigger on the set yet (was literally a day or two from getting it.)
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
This is one of those things that I feel (if I were a game designer) that you just would have to swallow your pride, admit you made a balance mistake and try not to repeat it in the future. The set bonus has been in the game far too long to finally be changed. I'm sympathetic to those who have invested millions in this set, but extremely happy I didn't pull the trigger on the set yet (was literally a day or two from getting it.)
In this regard, I agree. Reduce the number of times the bonus could stack or how much of a buff each stack provides, but leave it otherwise intact.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I'm sympathetic to those who have invested millions in this set, but extremely happy I didn't pull the trigger on the set yet (was literally a day or two from getting it.)
I actually just bought most of the set yesterday before I saw these posts. The only piece I didn't get was the helm. I almost bought it but the guy tried to jack up the price at the last minute by pretending someone offered him more. I told him to sell it to the other guy and left the party. He bugged me for the next 2 min trying to get me to buy it but I refused. Then I came on here and saw the post about the "Rework" and that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> hit the AH immediately. LOL.
I use a Stalwart set, have a lot of nice stuff in it, and i think it was time that the set got reworked. It was redicolously overpowered. Come on, it's T1, easy to get ( Cloak tower anyone?)
*ahem* mad dragon anyone?
but seriously, this change to my GF has just made her so god **** mad. all the items ive gotten on her and the equipment is just so <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> now.
brb crying in the shower
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brendan03usMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
$289 later and I really could care less what gets changed. That money bought me some fun why it lasted, though I feel I should swing my keyboard around my head and streak naked through my neighbors backyard screaming.
But I don't want the cops called on me.
Life is a dream for the wise, a game for the fool, a comedy for the rich, a tragedy for the poor.
~Sholom Aleichem
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blasphemous7Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I think we should get a refund. I've spent $1k+ on this game and they won't see a drop more because I can't trust them to not **** me with my hard earned cash. Alienating your customers if stupid and foolish.
While I think it's downright stupid to spend that kind of cash on a game that's been out for a couple of months, I hear what you are saying. If you feel like you've been ripped off, call your credit card company and get a charge-back.
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spanky2014Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 78
edited August 2013
So let me get this right. Stalwarts set is OP. So much so that it is used exclusively and even over T2 sets. You acquired the item with real money or by playing the game, it doesn't really matter. Cause it is so good, you know they will probably nerf it at some stage, but hey it is giving you enjoyment while it lasted. Shouldn't be complaining about this, and I don't think you are.
Now you dye and transmute, you shouldn't be complaining about this either as this is part of your enjoyment and you know that. You also put in R8 enchants because it makes you bufferer you got your enjoyment out of this. Why don't you put in R9? Cause you know eventually when T3 gets released you will unbind and use it for the T3 gear am I right? You could have put in R7 and it would have made no difference to you completing PvE and a slightest edge in PvP. The cost of unbinding is outlined to you when you first insert the gem. You know this and I know this. I too have 12 slots of R8 and Greater enchants on my weapon and armor. I KNOW it will cost over 1M to unsocket and put it into my new stuff once it arrives.
Obviously in your case it arrived a lot earlier cause you want to move to the "flavour of the month" which is obviously not the Stalwart set. I too have spent $1k+ on this game and will not be spending another dime cause some of the antics that Cryptic as pulled. i.e. Dropping dragon eggs like flies. Didn't affect me much but I'm sure it did for a lot of people!! Not to mention the unbinding of pets to give to your alts. Basically if you want a decked out character with a nice pet, be prepard to fork out 3M AD, but I digress.
They should not make it free, but they need to reduce the cost of unbinding. But maybe that's because of bots? Bot drive down the price of gems so much that for a R7 item, it is better to replace then remove. My suggestion:
R7 removal = 50k
R8 removal = 75k
R9 removal = 100k (or use a ward).
Maybe another suggestion, since Cryptic is so money hungry is to buy gem removal tokens / wards.
Just for your information, I use a mage and when I first played I didn't really know about the game and the Magelord set looked real good and so I went with it. Spent ~2M to kit myself over 1 month over the course of the time realised that it wasn't that great and that the other sets were supreme. I didn't complain, acquired my Shadoweaver and this time being more sure got R8 gems into it. Now I'm thinking High Viz is better..... if the it was cheaper to remove my gems maybe I would change....... and give me a reason to keep playing this game.
uhh ur last example doesnt prove ****.. it just means that you purchased a set without researching about it. stalwart was already a staple along with timless. there was no experementing required. it was one of the best set so people will buy it and do what they will of it( transmute, dye). you just want everyone else to have the same experience as you( even though yours was your fault since you bought it becasued you think it looked good). stalwart is diff people have made builds around this set and completely changing the mechanics of the set screws those people over.
power is the lowest when it comes to increasing damage max stack stalwart only adds 1000+ to my skill damage
ex lunging with no stack = 2000-2200 damage with max stack 3000-3200
8.5k power (30k+HP max stack stalwart) only adds 1.1k damage compared to ArPen a little arpen will increase damage a lot
uhh ur last example doesnt prove ****.. it just means that you purchased a set without researching about it. stalwart was already a staple along with timless. there was no experementing required. it was one of the best set so people will buy it and do what they will of it( transmute, dye). you just want everyone else to have the same experience as you( even though yours was your fault since you bought it becasued you think it looked good). stalwart is diff people have made builds around this set and completely changing the mechanics of the set screws those people over.
nerf sure, but change the mechanics... not cool
Yeah I agree, it's not a nerf when they completely change how the set bonus works.
i dont even know if crytic/PWE even thought about this? do they even have half a brain? people spent tons of AD's/ real money for this set. this is not like skill nerf change where a simple reset token would do the trick... even a kid would know the difference. unless the real goal is to screw people out of their money.
im a GF, i run 8s and soulforged in the stalwart, and i had fun playing it, but i always known it was stupidly OP and would be nerfed to T1 power someday, i too spent 200$ or so in this game, and you know what? i did because i have fun playing the game! i dont care about virtual goods (virtual goods that in fact, if you read the license agreement, you DON'T OWN!, they don't belong to you, are cryptic's stuff that they allow you to play with) in a FTP game, so, i will get a timeless hero set during this week, playing delves for it (i now have a reason for it, i just didnt had any interest in delves anymore, just farmed CN and played foundries) unslot my shiny thingies and slot timeless hero, tweak the enchants to make sure im not over diminishing returns in any stat and move on to play feywild..!
im a GF, i run 8s and soulforged in the stalwart, and i had fun playing it, but i always known it was stupidly OP and would be nerfed to T1 power someday, i too spent 200$ or so in this game, and you know what? i did because i have fun playing the game! i dont care about virtual goods (virtual goods that in fact, if you read the license agreement, you DON'T OWN!, they don't belong to you, are cryptic's stuff that they allow you to play with) in a FTP game, so, i will get a timeless hero set during this week, playing delves for it (i now have a reason for it, i just didnt had any interest in delves anymore, just farmed CN and played foundries) unslot my shiny thingies and slot timeless hero, tweak the enchants to make sure im not over diminishing returns in any stat and move on to play feywild..!
Well we certainly have a different opinion. Its gutting the players who used it not the set. If your time and money hold such little value then i can appreciate that, good for you. This takes months of effort and in game resources and hard cash away from players who dont feel as you do. Its a nerf on players not on items... understand? To say everyone knew it would be changed is silly at best. Time and money are important to most.... but certainly not all.
The current Stalwart gives me an extra 300 damage with max stacks of 5.
The new Stalwart gives 200 damage, with max stack of 10. not too much difference i think.
There's rather HUGE differences between:
1. Simply taking damage and having to Block damage.
2. Stacking to 5x instead of 10x! Maintaining 5x was not that easy all the time even with current Stalwarts.
No one sensible would consider this anything less than an immense nerf. Stalwarts went from being a superb T2-like set to much worse than a typical T1 set across all classes.
I have a hard time feeling sorry for you . You should have known the nerf was coming. I sold off every piece of stalwert because it was so op that it couldnt last. I think people who use tenes enchants should watch this because they will be nerfed once cryptect feels they have gotten as much money as they can get.
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derpaderpistMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
And that why you don't buy items with real money in a "free" to play cash shop games :cool:
" We live in an age of the cheaply made, disposable, high priced junk. " - theunwarshed
R7 removal = 50k
R8 removal = 75k
R9 removal = 100k (or use a blue ward)
This is a sensible suggestion, which might even be listened to.
The Stalwart set was far, far too good and it was always going to be nerfed sooner or later. Anyone who has any MMO experience will realise this.
However, as people have invested a lot of time and effort, and enchantment removal costs are ridiculous anyway, why not reduce these costs so that people can more easily transfer the enchantments when they need to.
1. Simply taking damage and having to Block damage.
2. Stacking to 5x instead of 10x! Maintaining 5x was not that easy all the time even with current Stalwarts.
No one sensible would consider this anything less than an immense nerf. Stalwarts went from being a superb T2-like set to much worse than a typical T1 set across all classes.
Also, from what I've read, you'll have the new bonus only for one strike as opposed to the old bonus.
people should get that there are 2 issues here:
1. set wasnt nerfed (so stop saying "blah blah you should have seen it coming") its a whole new set altogether, and..
2. all the time/AD/ Real money people used to acquire the set and transmute, dye, etc...
doesnt matter if it was too good it was the devs who decided it to be that way.. they had the chance to change it when they made new lvl 60 purples but instead they kept the set bonus leading more people to believe it was WAI.
people who just want discount for unsocketing create your own thread.
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sirjestoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 176Bounty Hunter
doesnt matter if it was too good it was the devs who decided it to be that way..
And they can change it again as they wish. This change will almost certainly go through in some fashion, as the Devs will look like absolute idiots if it doesn't since everyone knows the Stalwart is OP.
However, it might be possible to mitigate the effects of the change - perhaps the Devs might consider reducing the number/potency of stacks or allow people cheaper enchantment removal which as enchantments can cost far more than the set would actually make a large difference.
people who just want discount for unsocketing create your own thread.
Since the cost for enchantments can far outweigh the cost for the actual set, this is a relevant for a lot of people. If it isn't for you, then fair enough, but others may have spent a lot of AD on this. Should the MODs feel it that discussion of reducing enchantment costs is not relevant in this thread then I am sure they will remove the relevant posts, but I really doubt it....
And they can change it again as they wish. This change will almost certainly go through in some fashion, as the Devs will look like absolute idiots if it doesn't since everyone knows the Stalwart is OP.
.
not without repercussion... its not the players fault its like that. if it was new, sure, maybe they got it wrong. but it even had a lowlevel version which means this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> have been out a long time maybe even close beta. they couldnt figure out then? how are people spose to play if everything they worked for could be changed( not nerfed, changed) in ablink of an eye.
2nd part i do have an issue with the unsocketing as well but i see a a few of the previous posters on other thread just jumping in the band wagon to have a unsocketing discount(which is not bad) i just doubt that if they really are one of the GF's that got screwed over they'll be asking for free unsocket not just a discount.
Oh, I fully agree. However, the Devs are currently between a rock and a hard place here.
Everyone knows that Stalwart was far too good, and the Devs have announced they are planning on nerfing it. If they back down, they will have set a precedent and everyone will expect the same treatment in future. If they don't then they will have a lot of pissed off players who felt (incorrectly - this is an MMO after all so balance changes happen) that since the Devs allowed this situation to persist for such a long time, that it was likely to remain this way.
Like exploits, the Devs should have fixed this ASAP. They didn't and now everyone suffers because of it.....
Comments
I am not saying, i saw this coming (the changes are not live and who knows what will happen) but a giant nerf to the stalwart set is only logical.
Yes, it would be nice, if they'd let us remove the enchants and stuff for free, but i doubt it. Why should they. It's not like the set is completely worthless. The nerf is huge but it is still a decent T1 set and we will be able to play just fine with it, not as good as before but it's not like we will be stripped naked.
The way some people here are talking, it sounds like nerf or reworks on items should not be allowed, especially if they are popular, because people will have invested in these items. I am wondering what happens when (if ever) they get around to rework that tene enchant. That will be fun.
Another argument I see is people saying the armor was never guaranteed to be BIS so you would eventually want to upgrade to something else at some point anyway. That is 100% true, but at that point it is a choice. You still have the armor you invested in and you can CHOSE to invest in a different set. If you don't want to you still have the armor you chose to use. This "Rework" is not a choice. Sure the armor is still usable, it didn't disappear, but almost no one would have spent a fortune enchanting it if it had the proposed set bonus from the beginning.
The new Stalwart gives 200 damage, with max stack of 10. not too much difference i think.
In this regard, I agree. Reduce the number of times the bonus could stack or how much of a buff each stack provides, but leave it otherwise intact.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I actually just bought most of the set yesterday before I saw these posts. The only piece I didn't get was the helm. I almost bought it but the guy tried to jack up the price at the last minute by pretending someone offered him more. I told him to sell it to the other guy and left the party. He bugged me for the next 2 min trying to get me to buy it but I refused. Then I came on here and saw the post about the "Rework" and that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> hit the AH immediately. LOL.
*ahem* mad dragon anyone?
but seriously, this change to my GF has just made her so god **** mad. all the items ive gotten on her and the equipment is just so <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> now.
brb crying in the shower
I agree, this would be more humane.
But I don't want the cops called on me.
Life is a dream for the wise, a game for the fool, a comedy for the rich, a tragedy for the poor.
~Sholom Aleichem
While I think it's downright stupid to spend that kind of cash on a game that's been out for a couple of months, I hear what you are saying. If you feel like you've been ripped off, call your credit card company and get a charge-back.
Now you dye and transmute, you shouldn't be complaining about this either as this is part of your enjoyment and you know that. You also put in R8 enchants because it makes you bufferer you got your enjoyment out of this. Why don't you put in R9? Cause you know eventually when T3 gets released you will unbind and use it for the T3 gear am I right? You could have put in R7 and it would have made no difference to you completing PvE and a slightest edge in PvP. The cost of unbinding is outlined to you when you first insert the gem. You know this and I know this. I too have 12 slots of R8 and Greater enchants on my weapon and armor. I KNOW it will cost over 1M to unsocket and put it into my new stuff once it arrives.
Obviously in your case it arrived a lot earlier cause you want to move to the "flavour of the month" which is obviously not the Stalwart set. I too have spent $1k+ on this game and will not be spending another dime cause some of the antics that Cryptic as pulled. i.e. Dropping dragon eggs like flies. Didn't affect me much but I'm sure it did for a lot of people!! Not to mention the unbinding of pets to give to your alts. Basically if you want a decked out character with a nice pet, be prepard to fork out 3M AD, but I digress.
They should not make it free, but they need to reduce the cost of unbinding. But maybe that's because of bots? Bot drive down the price of gems so much that for a R7 item, it is better to replace then remove. My suggestion:
R7 removal = 50k
R8 removal = 75k
R9 removal = 100k (or use a ward).
Maybe another suggestion, since Cryptic is so money hungry is to buy gem removal tokens / wards.
Just for your information, I use a mage and when I first played I didn't really know about the game and the Magelord set looked real good and so I went with it. Spent ~2M to kit myself over 1 month over the course of the time realised that it wasn't that great and that the other sets were supreme. I didn't complain, acquired my Shadoweaver and this time being more sure got R8 gems into it. Now I'm thinking High Viz is better..... if the it was cheaper to remove my gems maybe I would change....... and give me a reason to keep playing this game.
nerf sure, but change the mechanics... not cool
ex lunging with no stack = 2000-2200 damage with max stack 3000-3200
8.5k power (30k+HP max stack stalwart) only adds 1.1k damage compared to ArPen a little arpen will increase damage a lot
Yeah I agree, it's not a nerf when they completely change how the set bonus works.
That's my problem with this change...
Well we certainly have a different opinion. Its gutting the players who used it not the set. If your time and money hold such little value then i can appreciate that, good for you. This takes months of effort and in game resources and hard cash away from players who dont feel as you do. Its a nerf on players not on items... understand? To say everyone knew it would be changed is silly at best. Time and money are important to most.... but certainly not all.
There's rather HUGE differences between:
1. Simply taking damage and having to Block damage.
2. Stacking to 5x instead of 10x! Maintaining 5x was not that easy all the time even with current Stalwarts.
No one sensible would consider this anything less than an immense nerf. Stalwarts went from being a superb T2-like set to much worse than a typical T1 set across all classes.
Timeless FTW
This is a sensible suggestion, which might even be listened to.
The Stalwart set was far, far too good and it was always going to be nerfed sooner or later. Anyone who has any MMO experience will realise this.
However, as people have invested a lot of time and effort, and enchantment removal costs are ridiculous anyway, why not reduce these costs so that people can more easily transfer the enchantments when they need to.
Also, from what I've read, you'll have the new bonus only for one strike as opposed to the old bonus.
222
210
188
these are the max stack damage its like having no 4set effect at all and you will lose almost all guard meter before you achieve 10 stalwart stack
1. set wasnt nerfed (so stop saying "blah blah you should have seen it coming") its a whole new set altogether, and..
2. all the time/AD/ Real money people used to acquire the set and transmute, dye, etc...
doesnt matter if it was too good it was the devs who decided it to be that way.. they had the chance to change it when they made new lvl 60 purples but instead they kept the set bonus leading more people to believe it was WAI.
people who just want discount for unsocketing create your own thread.
That's why YOU don't. But if no one did you wouldn't be playing this game.
And they can change it again as they wish. This change will almost certainly go through in some fashion, as the Devs will look like absolute idiots if it doesn't since everyone knows the Stalwart is OP.
However, it might be possible to mitigate the effects of the change - perhaps the Devs might consider reducing the number/potency of stacks or allow people cheaper enchantment removal which as enchantments can cost far more than the set would actually make a large difference.
Since the cost for enchantments can far outweigh the cost for the actual set, this is a relevant for a lot of people. If it isn't for you, then fair enough, but others may have spent a lot of AD on this. Should the MODs feel it that discussion of reducing enchantment costs is not relevant in this thread then I am sure they will remove the relevant posts, but I really doubt it....
2nd part i do have an issue with the unsocketing as well but i see a a few of the previous posters on other thread just jumping in the band wagon to have a unsocketing discount(which is not bad) i just doubt that if they really are one of the GF's that got screwed over they'll be asking for free unsocket not just a discount.
Oh, I fully agree. However, the Devs are currently between a rock and a hard place here.
Everyone knows that Stalwart was far too good, and the Devs have announced they are planning on nerfing it. If they back down, they will have set a precedent and everyone will expect the same treatment in future. If they don't then they will have a lot of pissed off players who felt (incorrectly - this is an MMO after all so balance changes happen) that since the Devs allowed this situation to persist for such a long time, that it was likely to remain this way.
Like exploits, the Devs should have fixed this ASAP. They didn't and now everyone suffers because of it.....