i run foundry missions everyday and level alts.i build up AD daily from foundry dailies and leadership.i like that eventually i could get nice stuff for my characters i have built.i personally don't want grind dungeons everyday.why even have things like foundry?crafting?i can't gain anything i want in game with it.the game will not have a place for me,anymore.like i said,i'll just go elsewhere.i play games for fun,and grinding dungeons is not fun for me.
That too. This change will really drive away any non-raider. I know, the raiding crwod always drivels on about "no need for gear if you don't raid", but... not many like to be second-class players. If my activities are not worth anything anymore, why stay? I don't want to play a game that doesn't want me.
Actually this change will drive away a lot of the raiders to. I see no point in running a dungeon once i have the loot for my class. I cant get drops to sell anymore = worthless run = waste of time = will not do any of them. The only reason i run these is to get items so i can sell then convert that to AD so i can get nice gear for alts or enchants. If i cant do that the game will get boring and stagnate very fast as the people that want the loot cant get it and the people that have the loot cant do anything with it. Add in the fact that there really is nothing else to spend AD on why would i want to have zen?
Actually this change will drive away a lot of the raiders to. I see no point in running a dungeon once i have the loot for my class. I cant get drops to sell anymore = worthless run = waste of time = will not do any of them. The only reason i run these is to get items so i can sell then convert that to AD so i can get nice gear for alts or enchants. If i cant do that the game will get boring and stagnate very fast as the people that want the loot cant get it and the people that have the loot cant do anything with it. Add in the fact that there really is nothing else to spend AD on why would i want to have zen?
It wont be the same AD flow, but the salvage npc they are putting in would serve that purpose. People are already testing it and find the AD rewards to be adequate. What it will do is stabilize the economy by significantly lowering the AD flow into players hands. Its a re-balancing of the economy onto a more stable track. At first I was against BOP, but after really thinking about it I think it will be great for the game in the long run. But it will leave a sour taste in many peoples mouths because right now they can sell some items for 1mil ad, and now they will get a set AD amount from an NPC.
As for the ZEN, you will still want wards Im sure, and dyes, and companions/mounts/costumes. I bet they are even expanding the cash shop soon to allow for more options to spend your hard earned Zen.
0
boconMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
This is going to become the most grindy MMO out on the market to date.
Right now, you have a 1 in 15 chance of getting the set piece that you want. That will change to 1 in 18 when Ranger comes out and 1 in 21 when Warlocks come out, ETC. Then, you have to roll against people who are your same class. And If you want rings and other non-set pieces, you get to roll against 4-5 other people for it. THEN, if you were doing a DD event, you will get a random piece of gear that is completely worthless most of the time. I don't even want to calculate the odds of getting your set piece from the bonus chest.....
I personally ran FH over 40 times and never saw my set piece drop once. I was able to sell the other loot I got for small amounts, from the garbage I got from those runs and I bought my set piece.
I have a difficult time believing that anyone would say I didn't put in enough time running that dungeon for my set piece. Maybe if all set pieces were created equal, it would lessen the burden on players. Unfortunately they aren't and one set is pretty much far and away better than all others.
I personally, will not be playing when the game goes live with this change. I feel that I shouldn't have to run 1 5 man 50-100 times just to get 1 set piece. I enjoyed how casual the game was before this and was happy that I had found a game that rewarded you no matter what for your efforts in a dungeon. Now, it's just pointless unless you are one of the few people who love to grind 1 thing endlessly.
This is going to become the most grindy MMO out on the market to date.
Right now, you have a 1 in 15 chance of getting the set piece that you want. That will change to 1 in 18 when Ranger comes out and 1 in 21 when Warlocks come out, ETC. Then, you have to roll against people who are your same class. And If you want rings and other non-set pieces, you get to roll against 4-5 other people for it. THEN, if you were doing a DD event, you will get a random piece of gear that is completely worthless most of the time. I don't even want to calculate the odds of getting your set piece from the bonus chest.....
I personally ran FH over 40 times and never saw my set piece drop once. I was able to sell the other loot I got for small amounts, from the garbage I got from those runs and I bought my set piece.
I have a difficult time believing that anyone would say I didn't put in enough time running that dungeon for my set piece. Maybe if all set pieces were created equal, it would lessen the burden on players. Unfortunately they aren't and one set is pretty much far and away better than all others.
I personally, will not be playing when the game goes live with this change. I feel that I shouldn't have to run 1 5 man 50-100 times just to get 1 set piece. I enjoyed how casual the game was before this and was happy that I had found a game that rewarded you no matter what for your efforts in a dungeon. Now, it's just pointless unless you are one of the few people who love to grind 1 thing endlessly.
We can be optimistic and think they will have "base" armors that apply to multiple classes. Cloth, Leather, Mail, Plate, Ect. Each one applying to multiple classes. The same for weapons. Im sure they will take this route, if they dont this game would be one big headache.
What it will do is stabilize the economy by significantly lowering the AD flow into players hands. Its a re-balancing of the economy onto a more stable track.
This is just dead wrong. Its increasing the amount of created AD.
Most players weren't going to hit the AD refining cap on a daily basis, this change will let them. So we will have more AD in the economy with less things to buy. The old system doesn't create any AD. In fact it drains it by taking 10% every time a player sells something.
And as I mentioned elsewhere... what do you think is going to happen later on when the current content is trivial? A couple updates/expansion down the road when uber geared players are able to do duo/solo farming runs to easily max daily AD on multiple characters?
This is just dead wrong. Its increasing the amount of created AD.
Most players weren't going to hit the AD refining cap on a daily basis, this change will let them. So we will have more AD in the economy with less things to buy. The old system doesn't create any AD. In fact it drains it by taking 10% every time a player sells something.
And as I mentioned elsewhere... what do you think is going to happen later on when the current content is trivial? A couple updates/expansion down the road when uber geared players are able to do duo/solo farming runs to easily max daily AD on multiple characters?
I guess I should do my homework and get back to you.
This is just dead wrong. Its increasing the amount of created AD.
Most players weren't going to hit the AD refining cap on a daily basis, this change will let them. So we will have more AD in the economy with less things to buy. The old system doesn't create any AD. In fact it drains it by taking 10% every time a player sells something.
And as I mentioned elsewhere... what do you think is going to happen later on when the current content is trivial? A couple updates/expansion down the road when uber geared players are able to do duo/solo farming runs to easily max daily AD on multiple characters?
While this is true, all that Cryptic would have to do to sort this out is lower the daily refining limit.
The silver lining is.. we get to play this game for many more years to come instead of it turning into a monty haul joke where everyone is clad in end game epic ?
People keep saying that. If the game is never going to come out with more gear then you won't get to play for many more years as it will be a ghost town.
The solution to gear is for Cryptic to keep bringing out new gear for players to aspire to, not destroy the ability of players to generate in game income:rolleyes:.
Since the level cap is eventually going to be raised, it makes sense that the current T2 gear will, at some point no longer be the best loot so people will have to get new gear. In addition, if they had 20 sets per class instead of a handful, people would be more apt to change out for something they like better. There should always be a latest and greatest, it is what keeps things fresh. For a named D&D game, the variety of gear and weaponry is sadly lacking. One would hope that would change in the future.
Cryptic, lose the BoP, or at least limit it to items that are Needed. For every 1 like the OP, there are many of us that HATE this change. Many of us with wallets;):D.
So you plan to come back because of this change? Gl finding a group then. Most people who are equipped out are then done untill module 1 comes out. My self sitting at 7.2 mil AD 6x Greater tenebrous, CN weapon. What am i suppose to do now? Farm 44 days for 1 million? No thanks.
I'm back. And I dont really see the issue of that 24k constantly coming in. Those that want it, are already getting it with lvl 20 leadership on multiple characters and PvP daily. It isnt hard at all, just takes some setup time.
Right now the AD we do have in the economy is 2 types, the salvage NPC will introduce a 3rd.
We have the Founders AD.
Daily Quest AD.
and soon Salvage AD
We will still have the cap on daily refinement.
We will still be trading things in the AH so it will be taxed and some will be drained out.
Players will likely still use AD to purchase items from NPCs in game.
Not all gear will become BoP. An entire set will remain BoE.
The issue will always be lack of content.
Gear will become obsolete, worthless to most of the playerbase.
Expanding the leveling process and pumping out new content will solve that problem as it arises.
I wonder how people for this change would feel if they did a wipe to put everyone on equal footing (more or less, founders would still have an advantage but they paid for it so that's as it should be).
That would be very welcome. But a fresh server will do just fine.
We can be optimistic and think they will have "base" armors that apply to multiple classes. Cloth, Leather, Mail, Plate, Ect. Each one applying to multiple classes. The same for weapons. Im sure they will take this route, if they dont this game would be one big headache.
There has been absolutely no indication of any fixes or tweaks beyond these changes. Most of Cryptic history on matters like this clearly show that reactionary fixes are generally delivered Ham-handedly. And often stay that way for years.
Anyone supporting this hot mess, with the hope that it is a first step, or that it will be improved. Needs to seriously look at past Cryptic fixes. And seriously consider that this solution might be all that there is. If you cant live with it in this, present, state. Accepting it, in the hopes of future improvements is simply a fools wish.
While this is true, all that Cryptic would have to do to sort this out is lower the daily refining limit.
And that will hurt everyone.
Just look at all the purple in the AH. Now instead, all the new purple people find will be turned into extra diamonds to flood the game. With little worthwhile to buy in the AH. Anything that can still be put up on the AH will cost tons. Simply because the value of AD will plummet.
Its devaluing the other methods of generating AD as well. Not only because its adding a new method of creating it... But, what will be the point in spending hours doing Dailies or raising Leadership for AD when you can make more in a dungeon run? Dailies are linked to level so they can control what/how/when you run them. Selling purple junk is not.
This change doesn't seem thought through at all. But my opinion is obviously biased, as it *** me over.
There has been absolutely no indication of any fixes or tweaks beyond these changes. Most of Cryptic history on matters like this clearly show that reactionary fixes are generally delivered Ham-handedly. And often stay that way for years.
Anyone supporting this hot mess, with the hope that it is a first step, or that it will be improved. Needs to seriously look at past Cryptic fixes. And seriously consider that this solution might be all that there is. If you cant live with it in this, present, state. Accepting it, in the hopes of future improvements is simply a fools wish.
Well Im looking more at WotC on this one. They want a successful game, they want to revive table top. I know 4e turned quite a few off from that because it was clearly an attempt to be translated into an MMO....but I do feel things will work out and I will still enjoy the game. I got on today and enjoyed the game O-o, although I almost never enjoy lvl 60 pvp unless I go in premade.
And game balancing isnt all in cryptics hands. Publishers need to express concerns to the developers. How well is PWI at doing that? So far is seems they are trying very hard to target just what our concerns are and fix them. SO I am optimistic.
Then again, PWI owns Cryptic now anyway....ah who knows.
We will still be trading things in the AH so it will be taxed and some will be drained out.
Not nearly as much. They are adding in a new way to generate currency at the same time they remove a large currency sink. It will devalue AD as a currency. As for the market. When AD is less valuable it will be worth less Zen. So all those farming AD through dailies or leadership will suddenly find their endeavors less profitable.
Tying the "salvage AD" to items (instead of the dungeon runs themselves) means they can't easily control it. A few tiers of gear down the road when people can run the current dungeons in 10 minutes... they will still be able to sell the now trivial items for AD. The AD will not be trivial though, because we are daily capped on it. The only way to stop that will be to block selling by gearscore. Or some weird new mechanics that will still make people rage then.
It looks like the took the way to do this that would annoy the most people. I know that's not their intent. But I swear that's the way it looks.
Not nearly as much. They are adding in a new way to generate currency at the same time they remove a large currency sink. It will devalue AD as a currency. As for the market. When AD is less valuable it will be worth less Zen. So all those farming AD through dailies or leadership will suddenly find their endeavors less profitable.
Tying the "salvage AD" to items (instead of the dungeon runs themselves) means they can't easily control it. A few tiers of gear down the road when people can run the current dungeons in 10 minutes... they will still be able to sell the now trivial items for AD. The AD will not be trivial though, because we are daily capped on it. The only way to stop that will be to block selling by gearscore. Or some weird new mechanics that will still make people rage then.
It looks like the took the way to do this that would annoy the most people. I know that's not their intent. But I swear that's the way it looks.
keep in mind, we still have the limit. Also, Im almost positive they will re-balance AD values from salvage NPC each time a new tier is added.
Well Im looking more at WotC on this one. They want a successful game, they want to revive table top. I know 4e turned quite a few off from that because it was clearly an attempt to be translated into an MMO....but I do feel things will work out and I will still enjoy the game. I got on today and enjoyed the game O-o, although I almost never enjoy lvl 60 pvp unless I go in premade.
Yea, but id just like to point out that STO also has oversight from a much bigger player then WotC and that pressure has not done much to keep ham-handed updates from hurting that game. Optimism is good. Optimism, in the face of facts and a proven history, Is something else.
And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Cryptic is bad. Ive been playing their games for years now. I consider myself a fan. But I'm also not blind to their shortcomings. When they nerf they nerf hard. Reactionary, fix type nerfs seem to hit the hardest. They often seem to be done as a stop gap. The problem with stop gaps is they need to be followed up. This has been something Cryptic has difficulty doing in the past.
Funny... we don't care what you think either. We should have the ability to play the game how we want to play the game. At least I have a good reason to disregard anything that you say... just assuming that anyone in good gear that farms the content(to you know... sell it and make some AD for better enchants and stuff) "needs attention" and has "low self-esteem" is just ridiculous. If I were you I would stop and think about who really has the low self-esteem bud.
I hope you enjoy the game 3 months from now... when no top tier players bother logging in and the economy is dead.
Those of us that actually like this game and want it to succeed are seriously SICK AND TIRED of this small but loud minority who continually claim that the game is dead or will be dead in a few months. Absolute total FAIL. That is not going to happen no matter how many times you type it out on the forum. Cryptic would do good to GET RID of you players themselves. All you guys do is complain and say the game is over and dead so why dont you just LEAVE?
There has been absolutely no indication of any fixes or tweaks beyond these changes. Most of Cryptic history on matters like this clearly show that reactionary fixes are generally delivered Ham-handedly. And often stay that way for years.
Anyone supporting this hot mess, with the hope that it is a first step, or that it will be improved. Needs to seriously look at past Cryptic fixes. And seriously consider that this solution might be all that there is. If you cant live with it in this, present, state. Accepting it, in the hopes of future improvements is simply a fools wish.
Ok so if you believe nothing will ever be fixed and this game sucks then PLEASE leave. Thanks.
Good for you/the people still playing. I have a feeling that this "cold" is going to feel more like a flu... and the only way to feel better well be zen. Enjoy it.
You have fun spending an hour trying to find a decent group... and then not being able to clear the instance because no one there has gear.
lol how arrogant can you be? You dont like the changes and updates so now you just tell people group finder waits will longer. Do you honestly believe you leaving or not liking something will cause everyone else to follow you? lol its like half the people on this post are on a different planet. Thank god most players dont even comment on the forum and could care less what the few complainers do or dont do.
I REALLY hope cryptic doesnt listen to the people complaining because they cant pay to win anymore.
I'm back. And I dont really see the issue of that 24k constantly coming in. Those that want it, are already getting it with lvl 20 leadership on multiple characters and PvP daily. It isnt hard at all, just takes some setup time.
1. Not everyone has multiple accounts, or can afford to buy more than 2 character slots, nor trusts a very faulty gateway to keep their account secure.
2. Some people avoid PVP. That is their game style and they shouldn't be forced to PVP. I personally dislike it, and avoid it like the plague.
Right now the AD we do have in the economy is 2 types, the salvage NPC will introduce a 3rd.
1. This is true, however, the amount offered as a booby-prize to something that could have sold for tens, to hundreds of thousands is insulting. 2k? 4k? 6k? There is also a rumor that the AD gain will be halved, like in a previous game developed by the same company, dropping it from 24k a day, to 12k.
1. Not everyone likes to do dailies. Foundry is really not fun if you look at it from the whole. You are basically running Bill's Tavern day in and out, 4 times a day. I'm sorry, but that **** is boring.
1. It's not lack of content. It's redundant content. ADDS ADDS ADDS ADDS ADDS ADDS ADDS. People will not do this for ample reward. 2k from a 'Sorry you got this ****ty item and not what you needed on your 40th try', is not ample. Having to run it 40 times to begin with is not acceptable and people WILL NOT DO IT.
Gear will become obsolete, worthless to most of the playerbase.
1. Gear and vanity items are the ONLY thing that matter in games like this. You must come from a third-world where food is still bartered because that is the sole underlying point of MMO, along with social gameplay...showing off your gear. It's just like real life, buddy.
Expanding the leveling process and pumping out new content will solve that problem as it arises.
1. New content is welcome, but only if it's actual content and not just more boss and one billion adds. Might as well go back to world of warcraft. Fights had a great deal of variety and loot could be had. Yes, the loot was BoP, but at least you could play with the mouthbreathing class and succeed. Won't be able to do that here. There is a disparagingly high inability for bad players to complete runs and I don't want to waste my gold babying them.
DIRECTED AT YOU
Sister Vanity knows if you've been naughty or nice...and heals accordingly.
1. Gear and vanity items are the ONLY thing that matter in games like this. You must come from a third-world where food is still bartered because that is the sole underlying point of MMO, along with social gameplay...showing off your gear. It's just like real life, buddy.
DIRECTED AT YOU
You have misunderstood the point. The reason why gears will become useless is because they will be bound on pickup. This means, once you get it, there is no other reason why you want to continue playing the game, as you dont make any cash out of it.
1. Not everyone has multiple accounts, or can afford to buy more than 2 character slots, nor trusts a very faulty gateway to keep their account secure.
2. Some people avoid PVP. That is their game style and they shouldn't be forced to PVP. I personally dislike it, and avoid it like the plague.
1. This is true, however, the amount offered as a booby-prize to something that could have sold for tens, to hundreds of thousands is insulting. 2k? 4k? 6k? There is also a rumor that the AD gain will be halved, like in a previous game developed by the same company, dropping it from 24k a day, to 12k.
1. Founders AD is not a boomerang. It doesn't keep returning to you, and the packs are off the market.
1. Not everyone likes to do dailies. Foundry is really not fun if you look at it from the whole. You are basically running Bill's Tavern day in and out, 4 times a day. I'm sorry, but that **** is boring.
1. Again, paltry offerings, see above. I won't comment on this twice since you recklessly listed it twice.
1. Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
1. And how is this a good thing? Especially post patch?
1. Have you seen those prices? How exciting is your cap now? So, what AD are you intending to use?
1. The 'bad' garbage gear. I am beginning to tell you are out of touch with end game as it is.
1. It's not lack of content. It's redundant content. ADDS ADDS ADDS ADDS ADDS ADDS ADDS. People will not do this for ample reward. 2k from a 'Sorry you got this ****ty item and not what you needed on your 40th try', is not ample. Having to run it 40 times to begin with is not acceptable and people WILL NOT DO IT.
1. Gear and vanity items are the ONLY thing that matter in games like this. You must come from a third-world where food is still bartered because that is the sole underlying point of MMO, along with social gameplay...showing off your gear. It's just like real life, buddy.
1. New content is welcome, but only if it's actual content and not just more boss and one billion adds. Might as well go back to world of warcraft. Fights had a great deal of variety and loot could be had. Yes, the loot was BoP, but at least you could play with the mouthbreathing class and succeed. Won't be able to do that here. There is a disparagingly high inability for bad players to complete runs and I don't want to waste my gold babying them.
DIRECTED AT YOU
RESPONSE ONE and TWO
I only have one account, and I only have 4 characters so far. The 500 zen for the character expansion I earned by trading for AD. Ad that I earned while still only being geared as T1(If I had bought it with cash, it would have been 5$) I guess I'm one of the lucky ones that never has an issue with gateway.
I mentioned PvP Dailies because I find that one to be the quickest and most reliable of them all. You could always run one of the other daily quests.
RESPONSE THREE
That item that will now be BoP lets say it is being sold to another player for 1mil ad. That is taking already existing AD and it is changing hands from one player to another in exhange for that item. The AD is taxed in the AH and some is taken out of the game. The new system wouldnt allow for that massive ad trade between players as often, and would generate NEW AD in a whole new AD stream. I would protest a drop from 24k to 12k. That is very drastic.
RESPONSE FOUR
Founders AD remains in the game and is generated by purchasing the founders pack. It only disappears when someone uses an in game NPC to buy an item for AD or something is exchanged on the AH and it is taxed away from the game. Im not sure what you meant by it doesnt return to you. It does remain in the market till completely exhausted by taxation or NPCs, Like all other forms of AD. Foundry AD was one of the largest initial sources.
RESPONSE FIVE
There are so many foundry quests...but they are all hard at lvl 60 so I avoid them now. I do enjoy pvp though, its challenging. Sometimes I get smashed pretty badly though. Again, there are multiple types of daily quests for AD.
RESPONSE SIX
Salvaging will be the best new stream of new AD in the market. Trading that gear to players doesnt generate new AD. IT gets rid of AD and AD changes hands. Salvaging will actually put more AD in circulation. Instead of the same AD just changing hands.
RESPONSE SEVEN
I said this in response to someone elses post that too much AD would flood the market with the introduction of the Salvage NPC. If you would pay attention to the post you would have noticed that and not responded to that segment as you did.
RESPONSE EIGHT
To be honest I dont know how to respond to that question. Again my previous post was a direct response to another post by someone. I was trying to reassure them that the same AD sinks would still exist in the game. People will still trade profession resources, wards, enchants, companions.....everything but gear. The market will readjust.
RESPONSE NINE
The cap was never exciting. Its simply an in game mechanic to keep a lid on the growth of the economy.
RESPONSE TEN
Yeah its likely the bad epic gear, but guess what...it is still better than the gear you end up with at lvl 60 usually. So people can purchase ZEN, trade for AD, and have a moderate T1/T2 set to get ahead. But they will still have incentive to run dungeons at least up until they have their own gear/want to farm dugeons for AD.
RESPONSE ELEVEN
Redundant Content=Lack Of Content. When they improve upon dungeon/boss mechanics this wont be an issue. I think people will do it, its just going to be weird the first few weeks.
RESPONSE TWELVE
You misunderstood. I said that as new gear comes out, eventually gear will become less worth to the playerbase because newer gear has better stats. You are right, vanity is a large part of MMOs.
RESPONSE THIRTEEN
I completely agree, but Ive never played WoW and what Ive heard from others is that even WoW has better boss mechanics. You are right that dungeons are hard, but right now they arent all that skill based. Its a big manage hp/dps allocation fight.
OVERALL
Im not sure why you are so upset, I come to the forums to have a discussion about the game. I encourage you to check the thread in my signature regarding feedback. Especially take a look at the quotes I added to the BOP section. Id much rather see a NEED=BoP Greed=BoE but we cant all get what we want, and once we all adjust BoP wont be so bad so long as we get new content to enjoy. New content being non-redundant and entertaining.
keep in mind, we still have the limit. Also, Im almost positive they will re-balance AD values from salvage NPC each time a new tier is added.
Well, you're more trusting than me on that. I've been burned by other companies. And I see nothing from Cryptic that shows they'll wind up any better on that point. They can't even be bothered to balance the AD vendors that already exist. (Like how it costs 3 million AD to upgrade a single horse to rank 3 - when for about a third of that you could buy Zen shop mount that gives every character on your account a rank 3 horse.) It just seems like they are trying to do something to shut complainers up. Which will just create more complaining.
At this point I'm going to drop it (the arguing about it) for a while at least. Maybe until some knew info comes out, idk for sure. I've made it clear how I feel, and others have as well on both sides. I feel most of us will never reach an agreement. So for me this is one of those agree to disagree things and hope for the best from the developers.
Well, you're more trusting than me on that. I've been burned by other companies. And I see nothing from Cryptic that shows they'll wind up any better on that point. They can't even be bothered to balance the AD vendors that already exist. (Like how it costs 3 million AD to upgrade a single horse to rank 3 - when for about a third of that you could buy Zen shop mount that gives every character on your account a rank 3 horse.) It just seems like they are trying to do something to shut complainers up. Which will just create more complaining.
At this point I'm going to drop it (the arguing about it) for a while at least. Maybe until some knew info comes out, idk for sure. I've made it clear how I feel, and others have as well on both sides. I feel most of us will never reach an agreement. So for me this is one of those agree to disagree things and hope for the best from the developers.
This is the official killing blow of this game..PWE allowed rampant exploits to cheapen the value AD...of ZEN...of Enchantment stones. Their so called "patch" that was supposed to fix the cheapness of dungeon runs was NOT fixed. And now..they're gonna take purple drops out of the AH marketplace. Good luck with whatever skeleton of an economy you think you'll be able to salvage from these mistakes.
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omgbee5Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Those of us that actually like this game and want it to succeed are seriously SICK AND TIRED of this small but loud minority who continually claim that the game is dead or will be dead in a few months. Absolute total FAIL. That is not going to happen no matter how many times you type it out on the forum. Cryptic would do good to GET RID of you players themselves. All you guys do is complain and say the game is over and dead so why dont you just LEAVE?
I never said that the game would be dead in a few months. Nice try though... talk about "FAIL".
lol how arrogant can you be? You dont like the changes and updates so now you just tell people group finder waits will longer. Do you honestly believe you leaving or not liking something will cause everyone else to follow you? lol its like half the people on this post are on a different planet. Thank god most players dont even comment on the forum and could care less what the few complainers do or dont do.
I REALLY hope cryptic doesnt listen to the people complaining because they cant pay to win anymore.
This post is just hilarious in so many ways... at this point I couldn't decide if you were a troll or not... but I will respond anyways.
1. Did you even bother to look at the post I was responding to? I responded in a condescending manner to a condescending post.
2. Just look around at all of these nice people that agree with me. Even the poll reflects that the majority of the users dislike of the BOP change in its current form.
3. I dont have some mysterious mass following that does what I say... that is just silly. However... I do have a pretty large group of friends that are in the same boat as me and feel the same way that I do about the change. If you want to see someone that must be "on a different planet" you might want to take a look in the mirror.
4. This is the most hilarious part of your post. This whole change... is... a move to make it MORE pay to win. To make players more reliant on ZEN to purchase enchantments and probably gear that has been unbound using tokens that they will add to the store that just unbinds items. Just give it time friend... you will see.
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bellaralodunMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Remove loot. Add seals... then you can just get whatever u want. And perhaps let the DD give you additional seals or a rare chance at the loot for your class.
Comments
That too. This change will really drive away any non-raider. I know, the raiding crwod always drivels on about "no need for gear if you don't raid", but... not many like to be second-class players. If my activities are not worth anything anymore, why stay? I don't want to play a game that doesn't want me.
It wont be the same AD flow, but the salvage npc they are putting in would serve that purpose. People are already testing it and find the AD rewards to be adequate. What it will do is stabilize the economy by significantly lowering the AD flow into players hands. Its a re-balancing of the economy onto a more stable track. At first I was against BOP, but after really thinking about it I think it will be great for the game in the long run. But it will leave a sour taste in many peoples mouths because right now they can sell some items for 1mil ad, and now they will get a set AD amount from an NPC.
As for the ZEN, you will still want wards Im sure, and dyes, and companions/mounts/costumes. I bet they are even expanding the cash shop soon to allow for more options to spend your hard earned Zen.
Right now, you have a 1 in 15 chance of getting the set piece that you want. That will change to 1 in 18 when Ranger comes out and 1 in 21 when Warlocks come out, ETC. Then, you have to roll against people who are your same class. And If you want rings and other non-set pieces, you get to roll against 4-5 other people for it. THEN, if you were doing a DD event, you will get a random piece of gear that is completely worthless most of the time. I don't even want to calculate the odds of getting your set piece from the bonus chest.....
I personally ran FH over 40 times and never saw my set piece drop once. I was able to sell the other loot I got for small amounts, from the garbage I got from those runs and I bought my set piece.
I have a difficult time believing that anyone would say I didn't put in enough time running that dungeon for my set piece. Maybe if all set pieces were created equal, it would lessen the burden on players. Unfortunately they aren't and one set is pretty much far and away better than all others.
I personally, will not be playing when the game goes live with this change. I feel that I shouldn't have to run 1 5 man 50-100 times just to get 1 set piece. I enjoyed how casual the game was before this and was happy that I had found a game that rewarded you no matter what for your efforts in a dungeon. Now, it's just pointless unless you are one of the few people who love to grind 1 thing endlessly.
We can be optimistic and think they will have "base" armors that apply to multiple classes. Cloth, Leather, Mail, Plate, Ect. Each one applying to multiple classes. The same for weapons. Im sure they will take this route, if they dont this game would be one big headache.
This is just dead wrong. Its increasing the amount of created AD.
Most players weren't going to hit the AD refining cap on a daily basis, this change will let them. So we will have more AD in the economy with less things to buy. The old system doesn't create any AD. In fact it drains it by taking 10% every time a player sells something.
And as I mentioned elsewhere... what do you think is going to happen later on when the current content is trivial? A couple updates/expansion down the road when uber geared players are able to do duo/solo farming runs to easily max daily AD on multiple characters?
I guess I should do my homework and get back to you.
While this is true, all that Cryptic would have to do to sort this out is lower the daily refining limit.
People keep saying that. If the game is never going to come out with more gear then you won't get to play for many more years as it will be a ghost town.
The solution to gear is for Cryptic to keep bringing out new gear for players to aspire to, not destroy the ability of players to generate in game income:rolleyes:.
Since the level cap is eventually going to be raised, it makes sense that the current T2 gear will, at some point no longer be the best loot so people will have to get new gear. In addition, if they had 20 sets per class instead of a handful, people would be more apt to change out for something they like better. There should always be a latest and greatest, it is what keeps things fresh. For a named D&D game, the variety of gear and weaponry is sadly lacking. One would hope that would change in the future.
Cryptic, lose the BoP, or at least limit it to items that are Needed. For every 1 like the OP, there are many of us that HATE this change. Many of us with wallets;):D.
Right now the AD we do have in the economy is 2 types, the salvage NPC will introduce a 3rd.
We have the Founders AD.
Daily Quest AD.
and soon Salvage AD
We will still have the cap on daily refinement.
We will still be trading things in the AH so it will be taxed and some will be drained out.
Players will likely still use AD to purchase items from NPCs in game.
Not all gear will become BoP. An entire set will remain BoE.
The issue will always be lack of content.
Gear will become obsolete, worthless to most of the playerbase.
Expanding the leveling process and pumping out new content will solve that problem as it arises.
DIRECTED AT RUNEBANE
That would be very welcome. But a fresh server will do just fine.
There has been absolutely no indication of any fixes or tweaks beyond these changes. Most of Cryptic history on matters like this clearly show that reactionary fixes are generally delivered Ham-handedly. And often stay that way for years.
Anyone supporting this hot mess, with the hope that it is a first step, or that it will be improved. Needs to seriously look at past Cryptic fixes. And seriously consider that this solution might be all that there is. If you cant live with it in this, present, state. Accepting it, in the hopes of future improvements is simply a fools wish.
And that will hurt everyone.
Just look at all the purple in the AH. Now instead, all the new purple people find will be turned into extra diamonds to flood the game. With little worthwhile to buy in the AH. Anything that can still be put up on the AH will cost tons. Simply because the value of AD will plummet.
Its devaluing the other methods of generating AD as well. Not only because its adding a new method of creating it... But, what will be the point in spending hours doing Dailies or raising Leadership for AD when you can make more in a dungeon run? Dailies are linked to level so they can control what/how/when you run them. Selling purple junk is not.
This change doesn't seem thought through at all. But my opinion is obviously biased, as it *** me over.
Well Im looking more at WotC on this one. They want a successful game, they want to revive table top. I know 4e turned quite a few off from that because it was clearly an attempt to be translated into an MMO....but I do feel things will work out and I will still enjoy the game. I got on today and enjoyed the game O-o, although I almost never enjoy lvl 60 pvp unless I go in premade.
And game balancing isnt all in cryptics hands. Publishers need to express concerns to the developers. How well is PWI at doing that? So far is seems they are trying very hard to target just what our concerns are and fix them. SO I am optimistic.
Then again, PWI owns Cryptic now anyway....ah who knows.
Not nearly as much. They are adding in a new way to generate currency at the same time they remove a large currency sink. It will devalue AD as a currency. As for the market. When AD is less valuable it will be worth less Zen. So all those farming AD through dailies or leadership will suddenly find their endeavors less profitable.
Tying the "salvage AD" to items (instead of the dungeon runs themselves) means they can't easily control it. A few tiers of gear down the road when people can run the current dungeons in 10 minutes... they will still be able to sell the now trivial items for AD. The AD will not be trivial though, because we are daily capped on it. The only way to stop that will be to block selling by gearscore. Or some weird new mechanics that will still make people rage then.
It looks like the took the way to do this that would annoy the most people. I know that's not their intent. But I swear that's the way it looks.
Yea, but id just like to point out that STO also has oversight from a much bigger player then WotC and that pressure has not done much to keep ham-handed updates from hurting that game. Optimism is good. Optimism, in the face of facts and a proven history, Is something else.
And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Cryptic is bad. Ive been playing their games for years now. I consider myself a fan. But I'm also not blind to their shortcomings. When they nerf they nerf hard. Reactionary, fix type nerfs seem to hit the hardest. They often seem to be done as a stop gap. The problem with stop gaps is they need to be followed up. This has been something Cryptic has difficulty doing in the past.
Those of us that actually like this game and want it to succeed are seriously SICK AND TIRED of this small but loud minority who continually claim that the game is dead or will be dead in a few months. Absolute total FAIL. That is not going to happen no matter how many times you type it out on the forum. Cryptic would do good to GET RID of you players themselves. All you guys do is complain and say the game is over and dead so why dont you just LEAVE?
Ok so if you believe nothing will ever be fixed and this game sucks then PLEASE leave. Thanks.
lol how arrogant can you be? You dont like the changes and updates so now you just tell people group finder waits will longer. Do you honestly believe you leaving or not liking something will cause everyone else to follow you? lol its like half the people on this post are on a different planet. Thank god most players dont even comment on the forum and could care less what the few complainers do or dont do.
I REALLY hope cryptic doesnt listen to the people complaining because they cant pay to win anymore.
1. Not everyone has multiple accounts, or can afford to buy more than 2 character slots, nor trusts a very faulty gateway to keep their account secure.
2. Some people avoid PVP. That is their game style and they shouldn't be forced to PVP. I personally dislike it, and avoid it like the plague.
1. This is true, however, the amount offered as a booby-prize to something that could have sold for tens, to hundreds of thousands is insulting. 2k? 4k? 6k? There is also a rumor that the AD gain will be halved, like in a previous game developed by the same company, dropping it from 24k a day, to 12k.
1. Founders AD is not a boomerang. It doesn't keep returning to you, and the packs are off the market.
1. Not everyone likes to do dailies. Foundry is really not fun if you look at it from the whole. You are basically running Bill's Tavern day in and out, 4 times a day. I'm sorry, but that **** is boring.
1. Again, paltry offerings, see above. I won't comment on this twice since you recklessly listed it twice.
1. Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
1. And how is this a good thing? Especially post patch?
1. Have you seen those prices? How exciting is your cap now? So, what AD are you intending to use?
1. The 'bad' garbage gear. I am beginning to tell you are out of touch with end game as it is.
1. It's not lack of content. It's redundant content. ADDS ADDS ADDS ADDS ADDS ADDS ADDS. People will not do this for ample reward. 2k from a 'Sorry you got this ****ty item and not what you needed on your 40th try', is not ample. Having to run it 40 times to begin with is not acceptable and people WILL NOT DO IT.
1. Gear and vanity items are the ONLY thing that matter in games like this. You must come from a third-world where food is still bartered because that is the sole underlying point of MMO, along with social gameplay...showing off your gear. It's just like real life, buddy.
1. New content is welcome, but only if it's actual content and not just more boss and one billion adds. Might as well go back to world of warcraft. Fights had a great deal of variety and loot could be had. Yes, the loot was BoP, but at least you could play with the mouthbreathing class and succeed. Won't be able to do that here. There is a disparagingly high inability for bad players to complete runs and I don't want to waste my gold babying them.
DIRECTED AT YOU
You have misunderstood the point. The reason why gears will become useless is because they will be bound on pickup. This means, once you get it, there is no other reason why you want to continue playing the game, as you dont make any cash out of it.
RESPONSE ONE and TWO
I only have one account, and I only have 4 characters so far. The 500 zen for the character expansion I earned by trading for AD. Ad that I earned while still only being geared as T1(If I had bought it with cash, it would have been 5$) I guess I'm one of the lucky ones that never has an issue with gateway.
I mentioned PvP Dailies because I find that one to be the quickest and most reliable of them all. You could always run one of the other daily quests.
RESPONSE THREE
That item that will now be BoP lets say it is being sold to another player for 1mil ad. That is taking already existing AD and it is changing hands from one player to another in exhange for that item. The AD is taxed in the AH and some is taken out of the game. The new system wouldnt allow for that massive ad trade between players as often, and would generate NEW AD in a whole new AD stream. I would protest a drop from 24k to 12k. That is very drastic.
RESPONSE FOUR
Founders AD remains in the game and is generated by purchasing the founders pack. It only disappears when someone uses an in game NPC to buy an item for AD or something is exchanged on the AH and it is taxed away from the game. Im not sure what you meant by it doesnt return to you. It does remain in the market till completely exhausted by taxation or NPCs, Like all other forms of AD. Foundry AD was one of the largest initial sources.
RESPONSE FIVE
There are so many foundry quests...but they are all hard at lvl 60 so I avoid them now. I do enjoy pvp though, its challenging. Sometimes I get smashed pretty badly though. Again, there are multiple types of daily quests for AD.
RESPONSE SIX
Salvaging will be the best new stream of new AD in the market. Trading that gear to players doesnt generate new AD. IT gets rid of AD and AD changes hands. Salvaging will actually put more AD in circulation. Instead of the same AD just changing hands.
RESPONSE SEVEN
I said this in response to someone elses post that too much AD would flood the market with the introduction of the Salvage NPC. If you would pay attention to the post you would have noticed that and not responded to that segment as you did.
RESPONSE EIGHT
To be honest I dont know how to respond to that question. Again my previous post was a direct response to another post by someone. I was trying to reassure them that the same AD sinks would still exist in the game. People will still trade profession resources, wards, enchants, companions.....everything but gear. The market will readjust.
RESPONSE NINE
The cap was never exciting. Its simply an in game mechanic to keep a lid on the growth of the economy.
RESPONSE TEN
Yeah its likely the bad epic gear, but guess what...it is still better than the gear you end up with at lvl 60 usually. So people can purchase ZEN, trade for AD, and have a moderate T1/T2 set to get ahead. But they will still have incentive to run dungeons at least up until they have their own gear/want to farm dugeons for AD.
RESPONSE ELEVEN
Redundant Content=Lack Of Content. When they improve upon dungeon/boss mechanics this wont be an issue. I think people will do it, its just going to be weird the first few weeks.
RESPONSE TWELVE
You misunderstood. I said that as new gear comes out, eventually gear will become less worth to the playerbase because newer gear has better stats. You are right, vanity is a large part of MMOs.
RESPONSE THIRTEEN
I completely agree, but Ive never played WoW and what Ive heard from others is that even WoW has better boss mechanics. You are right that dungeons are hard, but right now they arent all that skill based. Its a big manage hp/dps allocation fight.
OVERALL
Im not sure why you are so upset, I come to the forums to have a discussion about the game. I encourage you to check the thread in my signature regarding feedback. Especially take a look at the quotes I added to the BOP section. Id much rather see a NEED=BoP Greed=BoE but we cant all get what we want, and once we all adjust BoP wont be so bad so long as we get new content to enjoy. New content being non-redundant and entertaining.
Well, you're more trusting than me on that. I've been burned by other companies. And I see nothing from Cryptic that shows they'll wind up any better on that point. They can't even be bothered to balance the AD vendors that already exist. (Like how it costs 3 million AD to upgrade a single horse to rank 3 - when for about a third of that you could buy Zen shop mount that gives every character on your account a rank 3 horse.) It just seems like they are trying to do something to shut complainers up. Which will just create more complaining.
At this point I'm going to drop it (the arguing about it) for a while at least. Maybe until some knew info comes out, idk for sure. I've made it clear how I feel, and others have as well on both sides. I feel most of us will never reach an agreement. So for me this is one of those agree to disagree things and hope for the best from the developers.
*thumbs up*
I never said that the game would be dead in a few months. Nice try though... talk about "FAIL".
This post is just hilarious in so many ways... at this point I couldn't decide if you were a troll or not... but I will respond anyways.
1. Did you even bother to look at the post I was responding to? I responded in a condescending manner to a condescending post.
2. Just look around at all of these nice people that agree with me. Even the poll reflects that the majority of the users dislike of the BOP change in its current form.
3. I dont have some mysterious mass following that does what I say... that is just silly. However... I do have a pretty large group of friends that are in the same boat as me and feel the same way that I do about the change. If you want to see someone that must be "on a different planet" you might want to take a look in the mirror.
4. This is the most hilarious part of your post. This whole change... is... a move to make it MORE pay to win. To make players more reliant on ZEN to purchase enchantments and probably gear that has been unbound using tokens that they will add to the store that just unbinds items. Just give it time friend... you will see.
Remove loot. Add seals... then you can just get whatever u want. And perhaps let the DD give you additional seals or a rare chance at the loot for your class.