I wasn't referring to the loot itself, I was referring to how it dropped, i.e. the fact it went straight into your inventory without broadcasting what you got.
^^^
This. Also, everyone complaining about the loot system IS aware there are other choices, right? You don't HAVE to settle for NGP. There's round robin and leader decides, iirc. Might even be one more.
Irony is that everyone wants to complain about the need/greed/pass system but nobody will change from it when there are other alternatives already in the game. No sympathy here. Next whinge.
No matter how people try to agrue, there is indeed need for improvement on the loot system in general, need/greed rolls being one of them.
I dont think I've played a single MMO up to date that incorporated the need/greed system so poorly. Need should only be rolled if the item fits your character class. Adding a system like this would drastically reduce the un-needed needyness of some players. You would only have to compete versus players of your own class, the way it should be.
Sure you would still run into people needing ont hings they already own, but it would be far less common. The % chance to win would still be higher for the ones that really needed the item compared to the current system. And if the class wouldnt need the drop he would still be rewarded for the run. It has worked well with need/greed systems in other games where it was split up by class.
Only thing I personally roll need on are enchants. When it comes to other items I roll need if everyone else does.
I would also like to see them rework the loot windows, it's a drag to have them clutter up the screen.
Need should only be rolled if the item fits your character class. Adding a system like this would drastically reduce the un-needed needyness of some players. You would only have to compete versus players of your own class, the way it should be.
As I explained back on the first page of this thread, I disagree. If a valuable piece of gear drops, everyone should have a chance at it, not just the ones who happen to be the class it may be restricted to. Better yet, everyone should be assured of a reward worthy of their time and effort invested in a successful group run. The whole need/greed system is bad and ought be thrown out in favor of everyone having individual private loot.
My question would be what about people like me with 4 60s at 10k+gs and i want to play my cw but the group needs my DC so i get punished because i help the group out in what they need?
i don't know about you..maybe you got a different take on what "need" means but every game i played is you only NEED if you can use.it if you want it for an ALT then log him on or get it later you GREED it if you don't actually NEED for that particular chrt...or there has been some cases where everyone say rolls pass then you have an oppertunity to roll for your alts...but rarely happens ..if we gonna keep having need/greed whiners they should take out other classes from rolling on set item...
dude your comment STINKS of GREED...that is why they have a GREED button..for your type of people...you don;t roll on other classes ****..if you do you put greed not need....sheesh..go play wow>>>haelra
if you need money don't see you people needing it but..you should hold LOOT groups where you disregard the original need/greed rules and go in for just money drops then you guys can roll the need dice and whoever wins, wins...
People seem to be deliberately missing haelra's points. I don't think I can do a better or clearer job of explaining it, nor can I add much to it, but I do want to ask people this: If Cryptic decides to replace the current NGP system with a system where everyone gets independent, individual, and hidden loot rolls, would you consider that better or worse, and why?
it point was a greedy one lease the towards the end where it wanted everyone the option to roll on gear that isn't even for their class....for greed reasons due to money blah blah...if this is the case no one would have their gear..it would all go to peoples piggy banks
So much for everyone playing nice - geez IMO it's common courtesy and we don't need yet another mechanic for players to play nice...
Not a big fan of hidden loot rolls - I like knowing what someone else gets and give them a big "Grats" when they greed or need and win a nice rare item or upgrade - good for them!
Also, You should agree on loot before anything happens how loot is to be handled:
Need only if it is an upgrade for the char you are playing - not for an alt
Pass if it is not for the char you are playing and don't care about it
Greed if you want to sell it or pass it on
if you can't use an item wait until everyone has voted, if everyone else is greed and it's not your class - greed or pass!
As for passing it on to another char - that's up to the greed winner.
As for needing for an alt - IMO no - the group may have needed a specific class and you chose to be a team player, deal with it - next time play the char you want and let some one else swap chars. Nothing wrong with being a team player, but you take the good with the bad.
Not trying to start a flame war here, but come on now.
As I explained back on the first page of this thread, I disagree. If a valuable piece of gear drops, everyone should have a chance at it, not just the ones who happen to be the class it may be restricted to. Better yet, everyone should be assured of a reward worthy of their time and effort invested in a successful group run. The whole need/greed system is bad and ought be thrown out in favor of everyone having individual private loot.
Speaking for myself here, I know everyone plays for different reasons and theres no perfect system.
If im running a dungeon 99% of the time its for upgrades. Lets say im a gwf, if a gwf items drops thats an upgrade I should get first chance at that item over a cw because im actively playing the gwf class right now trying to improve it. If that cw has an alt gwf, he needs to be playing it to get gwf loot unless its not an upgrade for the gwf, then the item is fair game. Just because someone may or may not have an alt, now or in the future, doesnt mean anything to me. I shouldnt have to compete with the other fours combined ten (or however many) alts.
I also agree that everyone should be rewarded in a meaning way after the completion of a dungeon but thats Cryptics job to figure out. In the meantime, people shouldnt use that as an excuse to justify taking an upgrade from a party member for an ult or AH fodder. Besides, if youre in a group that doesnt have a specific class (happens often) then you can use the gear that drops for the class not present as open for everyone to roll on.
If you really want everyone to have a shot at everything that drops then maybe we should individualized loot.
0
grimregilssonMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 19Arc User
edited June 2013
Simple fix is to make it class priority. When loot drops everyone gets the normal options those who hit need fine but if the equipment dropped isn't for your class and is for one of the others then they get priority no matter who hit need, it automatically goes to the class that actually needs the equipment. Problem solved. No more ninja looters etc... We get a happier Neverwinter community and the game goes forward.
well yeah that sounds fine but the term ninja looting doesn't really apply to them hitting on need lol..well for me ninja looting falls into place when someone forgets to put on roll and they stand near corpse or somewhere and loot it before anyone else then whistles away :P
Gota go with the OP on this one...nothing pisses me off more then to see an item fall, or go for roll, and some class not able to even use it, rolls need and then wins that item. You want to make getting ANY group to run D's obsolete, keep allowing that bs to go on. Roll need , it binds to that char. Period.Go sell all the greenies you want, but leave the high end chest drops for the class, or person who can actually use or benefit from it. Sick of watching the lil greed hounds gobble up an item I really could use to help my class.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Sir, were now surrounded"!
Thats great news son, now we can attack from ALL sides"!
0
jpnoleMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Don't allow people to roll "need" if they cannot use the item.
Thx!
Aaaannnnd you couldn't use the search function to see the 100 other threads on this subject? It's not like you're the first person to come up with this idea.
How about an even better Idea; we get rid of the n/g/p system entirely and use a proper system for an action mmorpg, Individual loot.
That way we can put some of the cooperation back into the game. As in fighting monsters for loot, not other party members.
Can anyone tell my anything good about the n/g/p interface/system? I for one can't think of any.
0
sasheriaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
Ultimately the best loot system I've seen in an MMO was in City of Heroes, you got your loot added to your inventory and no one was informed when or what loot others got.
In fact when they added a system message to show what others got in preparation for Issue 9's inventions system, there was a massive uproar on the forums and they dropped the addition.
I have to agree. Bind on Pickup (BoP) should have option for rolling Need/Greed depending on class/role, BUT since all epic level are BoE, the system should just do away with the rolling and just auto assign to the person. Heck, I'll be happy if all the loot auto drop into the inventory.
Problem with this is then you get people who already have the item then needing on it just to sell without anyone else being able to interfere. Easy solution to that though is when you NEED on an item it binds.
This is the best option i think at least maybe binds to your account so you can give it to your other toonz. I would be happy with binds to that character but i could see people wanting for thier other toonz
This is the best option i think at least maybe binds to your account so you can give it to your other toonz. I would be happy with binds to that character but i could see people wanting for thier other toonz
gdante7111111Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 227Arc User
edited June 2013
What I will say is the right, what needs to happen and will happen is this.
There is: 1 gf, 2 gwf, 1 wizard, 1 cleric, an item gets picked up, The item is red for everyone else except for the gwf. The gf, wizard, cleric will not be able to need or pass, the option will be not there. The option will only be for the gwf, they can press need or pass as like how it is now. Who ever rolls the highest gets the item, if one chooses pass then the other will get the item. The greed will be taken away, so it will be only need or pass now.
P.S and like it is now if all pass then no one gets the item.
0
zovyaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
How about an even better Idea; we get rid of the n/g/p system entirely and use a proper system for an action mmorpg, Individual loot.
That way we can put some of the cooperation back into the game. As in fighting monsters for loot, not other party members.
Can anyone tell my anything good about the n/g/p interface/system? I for one can't think of any.
as far back as i can remember which is like 20 yrs playing these games there has always been n g and p..why get rid of it just tweek it...if there wasn't so many greedy fk's then we shouldn't have a problem in the first place.
Methinks the best solution is just to drop the whole archaic system. Do it like Marvel Heroes. Everything that drops is yours and no one else sees it. You have to pick it up yourself if you want it.
Right, so it has been around for 20 years and everyone still hates it. All that tells me it that is should be scrapped altogether. People aren't going to become less self-centered.
as far back as i can remember which is like 20 yrs playing these games there has always been n g and p..why get rid of it just tweek it...if there wasn't so many greedy fk's then we shouldn't have a problem in the first place.
If you need to tweak it, it isn't working. Tweak it enough, and it's no longer the same system. So why do people cling to it? Because that's the way it's been done "forever" (even though it's somewhat recent even in MMO history)? What to people like about NGP that couldn't be addressed by another, fairer system?
It obviously doesn't work the way people want it to. It obviously never has. Why hold on to it?
As for greed, that's a subjective valuation. If the game mechanic rewards people for rolling "need" on everything, I can't fault them for doing so anymore than I could fault them for min-maxing their toons, or flipping items on the auction house, or farming mats. In fact, I think it's pretty greedy to tweak a system to favor people who refuse to adapt to the game as it is, and who are happy to insult and berate anyone who doesn't think the same way they do.
____________________
The gorilla formerly known as Kolikos
0
orangefireeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,148Arc User
edited June 2013
What does this have to do with the foundry?
Neverwinter players are stubborn things....until you strip them down to bone. (Cursed players, my flowers, MINE!) Oh how I plotted their demise.
It's like golf... You have to trust the others to press "greed" if they don't need the item. One of the reasons I prefer to solo. Only play party with friends or guildies... That said, I'm kinda antisocial in RL as well.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] The entire campaign can be found here:NWS-DQS27OINC
Individual quests:
1. Heeding the Call - NW-DMJCDZ5XJ
2. Bored of the Rings - NW-DFWE3XR6W
3. Draconian Ways - NW-DUNZEJG2J
4. When All is Said and Done... - Look at the picture
Comments
^^^
This. Also, everyone complaining about the loot system IS aware there are other choices, right? You don't HAVE to settle for NGP. There's round robin and leader decides, iirc. Might even be one more.
Irony is that everyone wants to complain about the need/greed/pass system but nobody will change from it when there are other alternatives already in the game. No sympathy here. Next whinge.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
I dont think I've played a single MMO up to date that incorporated the need/greed system so poorly. Need should only be rolled if the item fits your character class. Adding a system like this would drastically reduce the un-needed needyness of some players. You would only have to compete versus players of your own class, the way it should be.
Sure you would still run into people needing ont hings they already own, but it would be far less common. The % chance to win would still be higher for the ones that really needed the item compared to the current system. And if the class wouldnt need the drop he would still be rewarded for the run. It has worked well with need/greed systems in other games where it was split up by class.
Only thing I personally roll need on are enchants. When it comes to other items I roll need if everyone else does.
I would also like to see them rework the loot windows, it's a drag to have them clutter up the screen.
As I explained back on the first page of this thread, I disagree. If a valuable piece of gear drops, everyone should have a chance at it, not just the ones who happen to be the class it may be restricted to. Better yet, everyone should be assured of a reward worthy of their time and effort invested in a successful group run. The whole need/greed system is bad and ought be thrown out in favor of everyone having individual private loot.
i don't know about you..maybe you got a different take on what "need" means but every game i played is you only NEED if you can use.it if you want it for an ALT then log him on or get it later you GREED it if you don't actually NEED for that particular chrt...or there has been some cases where everyone say rolls pass then you have an oppertunity to roll for your alts...but rarely happens ..if we gonna keep having need/greed whiners they should take out other classes from rolling on set item...
The gorilla formerly known as Kolikos
Not a big fan of hidden loot rolls - I like knowing what someone else gets and give them a big "Grats" when they greed or need and win a nice rare item or upgrade - good for them!
Also, You should agree on loot before anything happens how loot is to be handled:
Need only if it is an upgrade for the char you are playing - not for an alt
Pass if it is not for the char you are playing and don't care about it
Greed if you want to sell it or pass it on
if you can't use an item wait until everyone has voted, if everyone else is greed and it's not your class - greed or pass!
As for passing it on to another char - that's up to the greed winner.
As for needing for an alt - IMO no - the group may have needed a specific class and you chose to be a team player, deal with it - next time play the char you want and let some one else swap chars. Nothing wrong with being a team player, but you take the good with the bad.
Not trying to start a flame war here, but come on now.
Speaking for myself here, I know everyone plays for different reasons and theres no perfect system.
If im running a dungeon 99% of the time its for upgrades. Lets say im a gwf, if a gwf items drops thats an upgrade I should get first chance at that item over a cw because im actively playing the gwf class right now trying to improve it. If that cw has an alt gwf, he needs to be playing it to get gwf loot unless its not an upgrade for the gwf, then the item is fair game. Just because someone may or may not have an alt, now or in the future, doesnt mean anything to me. I shouldnt have to compete with the other fours combined ten (or however many) alts.
I also agree that everyone should be rewarded in a meaning way after the completion of a dungeon but thats Cryptics job to figure out. In the meantime, people shouldnt use that as an excuse to justify taking an upgrade from a party member for an ult or AH fodder. Besides, if youre in a group that doesnt have a specific class (happens often) then you can use the gear that drops for the class not present as open for everyone to roll on.
If you really want everyone to have a shot at everything that drops then maybe we should individualized loot.
"Sir, were now surrounded"!
Thats great news son, now we can attack from ALL sides"!
Aaaannnnd you couldn't use the search function to see the 100 other threads on this subject? It's not like you're the first person to come up with this idea.
"Sir, were now surrounded"!
Thats great news son, now we can attack from ALL sides"!
That way we can put some of the cooperation back into the game. As in fighting monsters for loot, not other party members.
Can anyone tell my anything good about the n/g/p interface/system? I for one can't think of any.
I have to agree. Bind on Pickup (BoP) should have option for rolling Need/Greed depending on class/role, BUT since all epic level are BoE, the system should just do away with the rolling and just auto assign to the person. Heck, I'll be happy if all the loot auto drop into the inventory.
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
This is the best option i think at least maybe binds to your account so you can give it to your other toonz. I would be happy with binds to that character but i could see people wanting for thier other toonz
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There is: 1 gf, 2 gwf, 1 wizard, 1 cleric, an item gets picked up, The item is red for everyone else except for the gwf. The gf, wizard, cleric will not be able to need or pass, the option will be not there. The option will only be for the gwf, they can press need or pass as like how it is now. Who ever rolls the highest gets the item, if one chooses pass then the other will get the item. The greed will be taken away, so it will be only need or pass now.
P.S and like it is now if all pass then no one gets the item.
as far back as i can remember which is like 20 yrs playing these games there has always been n g and p..why get rid of it just tweek it...if there wasn't so many greedy fk's then we shouldn't have a problem in the first place.
It obviously doesn't work the way people want it to. It obviously never has. Why hold on to it?
As for greed, that's a subjective valuation. If the game mechanic rewards people for rolling "need" on everything, I can't fault them for doing so anymore than I could fault them for min-maxing their toons, or flipping items on the auction house, or farming mats. In fact, I think it's pretty greedy to tweak a system to favor people who refuse to adapt to the game as it is, and who are happy to insult and berate anyone who doesn't think the same way they do.
The gorilla formerly known as Kolikos
The entire campaign can be found here: NWS-DQS27OINC
Individual quests:
1. Heeding the Call - NW-DMJCDZ5XJ
2. Bored of the Rings - NW-DFWE3XR6W
3. Draconian Ways - NW-DUNZEJG2J
4. When All is Said and Done... - Look at the picture