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Dungeon Delves Preclearing, exploit or not?

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  • kevinf08kevinf08 Member Posts: 432 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    SO since this isn't an exploit, can we be put at the end boss when we log back in please.

    Running through some of these dungeons after logging is imo very very boring.
  • ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited June 2013
    panderus wrote: »
    This is totally intended and part of why we implemented the events, to get you to think about "whats coming up next" and drive players towards a similar activity at a specific time window. The same can be done with Skirmishes as well, if you wait to open the chest until the event is active (though level 60 only has 1 event right now).

    Nice to hear but I'd have to say some of the others voiced my opinion as well.

    Dungeon Delve events will stay active as long as you started a dungeon within the DD time period which is a godsend. However the toolstip does state that you must start a dungeon during the DD event and the fact that chests remain long after the DD expires seems to be in line with this.

    I'm all for this being intended. It gives me more time to enjy the DD event which is a win in my book!
    But if this was intended the chest should really become active as soon as the DD Event begins without the requirement for the entire team to relog.

    Thanks for the update though panderus!
    It's always much appreciated.
  • lordhordelordhorde Member Posts: 57
    edited June 2013
    I really wouldn`t call this an exploit. The delves are no harder in difficulty then a normal run so it isn`t like you are taking a shortcut avoiding harder mobs or getting something for less the effort.
  • imperviumimpervium Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    panderus wrote: »
    This is totally intended and part of why we implemented the events, to get you to think about "whats coming up next" and drive players towards a similar activity at a specific time window. The same can be done with Skirmishes as well, if you wait to open the chest until the event is active (though level 60 only has 1 event right now).
    Nice to hear but I'd have to say some of the others voiced my opinion as well.

    Dungeon Delve events will stay active as long as you started a dungeon within the DD time period which is a godsend. However the toolstip does state that you must start a dungeon during the DD event and the fact that chests remain long after the DD expires seems to be in line with this.

    I'm all for this being intended. It gives me more time to enjy the DD event which is a win in my book!
    But if this was intended the chest should really become active as soon as the DD Event begins without the requirement for the entire team to relog.

    Thanks for the update though panderus!
    It's always much appreciated.

    You know, the more I study everyone's specific description of the problem alongside Panderus's reply, something doesn't match up. It sounds almost like two slightly different conversations. Now the odds that Panderus will even come back into this thread might be slim--they're devs, they're working.

    Which is why I think maybe everyone should keep the noise up about this. Something tells me the devs haven't been made aware of the entire issue--am I the only one who noticed that Panderus never addresses the relog "requirement" or the misguiding tooltip?

    And make sure each of your posts describes the real problem you're having. I know it's more work, but don't expect devs to scroll back several pages just to find out what the heck you're really griping about. :)
    _

    [SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]

    "YES, PLEASE"
    Vote YES for the Foundry in Champions Online.
    @Captain-Electric | CoH/Virtue veteran | Proud new Champion
  • wtfsoindiewtfsoindie Member Posts: 46
    edited June 2013
    impervium wrote: »
    You know, the more I study everyone's specific description of the problem alongside Panderus's reply, something doesn't match up. It sounds almost like two slightly different conversations. Now the odds that Panderus will even come back into this thread might be slim--they're devs, they're working.

    Which is why I think maybe everyone should keep the noise up about this. Something tells me the devs haven't been made aware of the entire issue--am I the only one who noticed that Panderus never addresses the relog "requirement" or the misguiding tooltip?

    And make sure each of your posts describes the real problem you're having. I know it's more work, but don't expect devs to scroll back several pages just to find out what the heck you're really griping about. :)

    It's just like when he made the mistake of saying "working as intended" in regard to the GF block issue. I don't think he actually plays the game at all.
  • aveanavean Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    It is commonly viewed as a exploit since you need to act outside of the games normal functions to achieve,
    you need to leave the instance then return(causing you to start), just like how if you DC after DD ends, you start
    outside of DD and you lose it.
    It would never be intentional to have players leave the game, then run 5-10min back to the end of the dungeon,
    I support the idea of it, however the actual practice of it seems out of place and I also feel the Panda Misunderstood.
  • panderuspanderus Member, NW_CrypticDev, Cryptic Developer Posts: 1,007 Cryptic Developer
    edited June 2013
    OK guys. Yes, we are aware that the relogging thing is weird and the text says something slightly conflicting, those are bugs we want to fix. We want to fix them, but there are higher priority things to address at the moment, though I will make sure that they are still on track to get fixed some time and hopefully before the Module 1 release if possible.
  • rapticorrapticor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,078 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    panderus wrote: »
    The same can be done with Skirmishes as well, if you wait to open the chest until the event is active (though level 60 only has 1 event right now).

    Does that mean we'll be getting more skirmished at 60? Please say yes.. And please say it will be soon. I can't take anymore of Aberrant Assault.
  • imperviumimpervium Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    panderus wrote: »
    OK guys. Yes, we are aware that the relogging thing is weird and the text says something slightly conflicting, those are bugs we want to fix. We want to fix them, but there are higher priority things to address at the moment, though I will make sure that they are still on track to get fixed some time and hopefully before the Module 1 release if possible.

    Thank you and please don't let us frustrate you too much. There are a lot of us and some of us are really BAD communicators (including me sometimes), but we're passionate about the game you're making and I hope you'll keep that in mind and take the rest in stride. You're a dev for a F2P game, everything you say is likely to get flamed. But I hope you keep talking to us because for every troll there are going to be hundreds of fans listening in that are grateful you dropped in to give us a bit of an update.
    _

    [SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]

    "YES, PLEASE"
    Vote YES for the Foundry in Champions Online.
    @Captain-Electric | CoH/Virtue veteran | Proud new Champion
  • kindyrekindyre Member Posts: 101
    edited June 2013
    panderus wrote: »
    OK guys. Yes, we are aware that the relogging thing is weird and the text says something slightly conflicting, those are bugs we want to fix. We want to fix them, but there are higher priority things to address at the moment, though I will make sure that they are still on track to get fixed some time and hopefully before the Module 1 release if possible.

    Thanks for taking the time to clear that up!

    And try to remember, amidst all the madness on these forums, that people only get up-in-arms about things they care about. Clearly you guys are doing something right for so many people to get so emotional over the details!
  • knoteskadknoteskad Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I guess this means taking shortcuts and using /unstuck are features as well.

    As well as mobs being made irrelevant with knocking them off stuff, they intended for 2/5 classes to be completely unoptimal for the game!
  • ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited June 2013
    panderus wrote: »
    OK guys. Yes, we are aware that the relogging thing is weird and the text says something slightly conflicting, those are bugs we want to fix. We want to fix them, but there are higher priority things to address at the moment, though I will make sure that they are still on track to get fixed some time and hopefully before the Module 1 release if possible.

    Thank you for that Panderus!

    Didn't mean to call you out or anything it just seemed weird that everything pointed to it being unintended. Glad to know I can start taking advantage and expect a fix for it in the future!

    Despite the fact being delivered news can cause such passionate replies it is, truly, helpful and appreciated by everybody hear even if some of them temporarily forget due to the nature of the answer. ;)
  • bzzzdbzzzd Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    panderus wrote: »
    those are bugs we want to fix.

    considering all the other HAMSTER that showed up since beta, make sure you fix it PROPERLY if you do it.

    cause how do you intend to fix it?
    - relogging doesn't drop you out/in of the DD reward anymore? (hf if you ever crash or your internet screws up - hellooooo europe!)
    - you have to START the dungeon during the event? (hf if your queue ever goes longer than 1h)

    there's a reason most games don't tie special rewards to a specific timeframe - yes I know CO/STO work similar, but it's just marks there and the whole endgame is slightly different anyway

    if relogging isn't an exploit (nor a "bug" but rather sideeffect how it's implemented), why fix it in the first place - and not just update the tooltip accordingly, which is a fix of what, 5 seconds?
  • talmaran1024talmaran1024 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    To be honest i don't understand why some people here find this so annoying.
    Personnel i haven't done a per-clearing of any instance for the event but i also dont care much if others do.
    I am big against exploits but of all he fixes which this game needs this 1 can go to the bottom of the list since this has the least negative inpact on the game of all the exploits / bugs currently available.
    like ninja looters
    afk pvpers
    bots
    certain game mechanics giving boosts
    client side hacks
    Getting some descend end-game content
    etc etc

    Also on a other note that on multiple guild runs we are cappleble of clearing pirate king epic 3 times in the event without using any exploits skipping mobs or a boss and without the weird jump near the final boss and still have plenty of time left to go to a longer dungeon while the event is active.

    so i manly see the per-clearing peeps as a bunch of lazy guys thinking they have done the impossible by having 2 chest while in a guild run i can have 4 chest the legit way.
    They say if you play a Microsoft CD backwards, you hear satanic messages. Thats nothing, cause if you play it forwards, it installs Windows.
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    panderus wrote: »
    This is totally intended and part of why we implemented the events, to get you to think about "whats coming up next" and drive players towards a similar activity at a specific time window. The same can be done with Skirmishes as well, if you wait to open the chest until the event is active (though level 60 only has 1 event right now).

    Panderus, Thanks for posting. My only fear is that in that hour of DD, if you get a preclear group and are geared enough you can run say 3-4 runs fairly easily... Thats 4 boss drops + 4 drops per person x 5 people... Your looking at 24 end game items for 1 group dropping in ~1 hour?! That is a ridiculous amount of gear.

    I really hope that gets nerfed for the content patch to something like "double loot from the boss" or something... That was its a max of 8 items in about an hour per group instead of 24.... 1/3rd of the items... Its too easy to get gear
  • aaronjfaaronjf Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    etherealj wrote: »
    I'd be interested to see how they could fix it. I bet they'd break something and people who dc would lose their chest.
    I got dc'ed the other day while running a dungeon delve.. Finished the instance w/ the group (didn't even miss a boss).... No dungeon delve chest for me... *********
  • itheryelitheryel Member Posts: 335 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Thanks for taking the time to clear that up!

    And try to remember, amidst all the madness on these forums, that people only get up-in-arms about things they care about. Clearly you guys are doing something right for so many people to get so emotional over the details!

    I like u.
    Give him a trophee hes on to something there...
    Petram Sacram - I am no devine cleric, i am a Gaurdian fighter in disguise with better threat and supportive spells -
  • chronomancerchronomancer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,223
    edited June 2013
    panderus wrote: »
    This is totally intended and part of why we implemented the events, to get you to think about "whats coming up next" and drive players towards a similar activity at a specific time window. The same can be done with Skirmishes as well, if you wait to open the chest until the event is active (though level 60 only has 1 event right now).

    Haha wow.... okay... that pretty much gives the seal of approval for pre-clears.
  • alcovitchalcovitch Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    etherealj wrote: »
    If a Dev says it's intended...it can't actually be an exploit. They said it was designed that way. /thread.

    Having a development team actually state as fact that they INTENDED and specifically coded their game to force players to LOG OUT of the game and back in to access the reward as an intended, designed mechanic should be far more disconcerting then the "exploit" itself.

    It speaks volumes about the development teams standards and ideals for this game.
  • noosednoosed Member Posts: 247 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    ahahha, posting cuz multiple people in this thread look like giant turds.


    you know who u r
  • bzzzdbzzzd Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    alcovitch wrote: »
    Having a development team actually state as fact that they INTENDED and specifically coded their game to force players to LOG OUT of the game and back in to access the reward as an intended, designed mechanic should be far more disconcerting then the "exploit" itself.

    It speaks volumes about the development teams standards and ideals for this game.

    wait what, you need a confusing devpost for that?

    actions speak louder than words, just look at all that HAMSTER that happened till now....
  • rapticorrapticor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,078 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    alcovitch wrote: »
    Having a development team actually state as fact that they INTENDED and specifically coded their game to force players to LOG OUT of the game and back in to access the reward as an intended, designed mechanic should be far more disconcerting then the "exploit" itself.

    Technically that's not exactly what he said. I do the dungeon delves just fine without being FORCED to log out of the game. What does that even mean? I'm think you're incorrectly putting your own spin on his words.
  • chronomancerchronomancer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,223
    edited June 2013
    rapticor wrote: »
    Does that mean we'll be getting more skirmished at 60? Please say yes.. And please say it will be soon. I can't take anymore of Aberrant Assault.

    Like wise.. how about epic skirmish ? I would love to replay some of the old skirmish that i have missed.
  • isopointisopoint Member Posts: 193 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    PVP event says "during" so it's hard to believe they could have made such a massive error in the description for dungeons that very clear says "after".

    These events are fairly central to this game so it should be up there priority wise.
  • spacejewspacejew Member Posts: 1,044 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    If they fix this 'bug' as you call it I would be infuriated because as it stands you lose the dungeon delve if you disconnect after the event is over but you don't if you stay connected. By your logic, if you don't disconnect and reconnect to the game once DD is over you are also exploiting the game.

    Oh, and half the time the chest doesn't unlock even though your event is active. Literally every little aspect of everything surrounding the Dungeon Delve is bugged. Fixing the one good thing about it isn't a solution.

    So what if you get two chances at the DD chest, at least a quarter of the groups that try never reach it, and another quarter after that probably never finish the end boss. The chest is the one place you can get the gear where someone else can't ninja it, so please don't screw with it until need/greed is fixed.
    ayroux wrote: »
    Panderus, Thanks for posting. My only fear is that in that hour of DD, if you get a preclear group and are geared enough you can run say 3-4 runs fairly easily... Thats 4 boss drops + 4 drops per person x 5 people... Your looking at 24 end game items for 1 group dropping in ~1 hour?! That is a ridiculous amount of gear.

    I really hope that gets nerfed for the content patch to something like "double loot from the boss" or something... That was its a max of 8 items in about an hour per group instead of 24.... 1/3rd of the items... Its too easy to get gear

    Yeah, because it's not like you can go to the store and buy all the T1 and T2 gear and never need to run a single dungeon. That would be insane right? Heaven forbid they give you an incentive to run the content instead of just purchasing Zen and converting to AD to outright purchase the gear you're complaining about. Right?
    MoF/Thaum CW SS/Thaum CW IV/Protector GF SW/Combat HR SM/Destroyer GWF WK/Executioner TR DO/Faithful DC
  • bzzzdbzzzd Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    isopoint wrote: »
    PVP event says "during" so it's hard to believe they could have made such a massive error in the description for dungeons that very clear says "after".

    These events are fairly central to this game so it should be up there priority wise.

    what do you mean, that DD's should end during the event? cause that's how all the other events work.
    spacejew wrote: »
    So what if you get two chances at the DD chest, at least a quarter of the groups that try never reach it, and another quarter after that probably never finish the end boss. The chest is the one place you can get the gear where someone else can't ninja it, so please don't screw with it until need/greed is fixed.

    this. but you and me know the need/greed "fix" will probably the removal of need....
  • hurk97hurk97 Member Posts: 154 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Nice to hear but I'd have to say some of the others voiced my opinion as well.

    Dungeon Delve events will stay active as long as you started a dungeon within the DD time period which is a godsend. However the toolstip does state that you must start a dungeon during the DD event and the fact that chests remain long after the DD expires seems to be in line with this.

    I'm all for this being intended. It gives me more time to enjy the DD event which is a win in my book!
    But if this was intended the chest should really become active as soon as the DD Event begins without the requirement for the entire team to relog.

    Thanks for the update though panderus!
    It's always much appreciated.

    I find this ENTIRE THREAD hilarious. With all the major exploits taking place people rage over this?! When a dev says regarding this subject 'It is OK to do this' meaning you will not get into trouble, people(including a mod) are disagreeing?!

    I really think you as a mod need to help quell these raging and emotionally unstable people who cry day after day about something new. Repeat emo'ers just need to be banned for a few days and I emplore you not to exacerbate the sitation by fanning the flames of discontent as you did with this post. It has gotten so out of hand this is the first time I have ventured into the forums in the last week and most players in my guild and who I talk to hate these forums from these types of people.
  • keobiaakeobiaa Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    It never ceases to amaze me the lengths people will go to argue semantics, even when a cast-iron statement straight from the horses mouth says "We're okay with this, it's not functioning completely correctly but our goal is that preclearing is viable". What else needs to be discussed after that? It's not open to interpretation, it's a clear cut message.
  • ganjaman1ganjaman1 Member Posts: 792 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    panderus wrote: »
    This is totally intended and part of why we implemented the events, to get you to think about "whats coming up next" and drive players towards a similar activity at a specific time window. The same can be done with Skirmishes as well, if you wait to open the chest until the event is active (though level 60 only has 1 event right now).

    Thing is players have to relog , which I believe was never intended or if it was is extremely bad and unannounced game design feature .

    Prove me wrong .
  • ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited June 2013
    hurk97 wrote: »
    I find this ENTIRE THREAD hilarious. With all the major exploits taking place people rage over this?! When a dev says regarding this subject 'It is OK to do this' meaning you will not get into trouble, people(including a mod) are disagreeing?!

    I really think you as a mod need to help quell these raging and emotionally unstable people who cry day after day about something new. Repeat emo'ers just need to be banned for a few days and I emplore you not to exacerbate the sitation by fanning the flames of discontent as you did with this post. It has gotten so out of hand this is the first time I have ventured into the forums in the last week and most players in my guild and who I talk to hate these forums from these types of people.

    You should read the tooltip.

    I would have expected it to be an exploit. In fact I had already assumed that this was an exploit (unintended abuse of mechanics) but didn't bear immediate fixing (such as pulling bosses) and therefore would not be a punishable offense.

    To hear otherwise was quite surprising but nothing anybody here is truly angry about.

    Abusing mechanics is a valid reason for any person to get frustrated and that tooltip, while wrong, is quite clearly written as a contradiction to what Panderus said. However calling people whiners is actually a bit more of a problem. Let's keep the name calling down, okay. ;)
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