Well, there are two simple chat commands. One, /ignore which does the same thing as right-click ignore. Two, /ignore_spammer, which does that same this as... you guessed it! Report Spam. And, the only thing you need is twenty-ish people and someones @handle.
Thanks, Asashiro. That's the first statement I've seen where the argument makes the report system unreasonable. If you're not in the same zone with someone, or haven't had a private message, it shouldn't count as a demerit against you. If you can't click on the chat someone sent you, a console command shouldn't tack on demerit points.
Well, there are two simple chat commands. One, /ignore which does the same thing as right-click ignore. Two, /ignore_spammer, which does that same this as... you guessed it! Report Spam. And, the only thing you need is twenty-ish people and someones @handle.
Which, coincidentally....just so happens to be(90% of the time) located to the left of the person's post...in orange-yellow letters. Yup. Forum handles=ingame @names. Most of the time, thanks to PWI's integration of Cryptic.
No. It doesn't. Zone chat is a mess, innocent people do get banned even if you refuse to believe it and think i'm making this up for some reason. Forcing them to play solo or not play at all for 24 hours if they don't have access to other player's VOIP.
You've come into this thread to spout off about nothing, and keep saying "the system works."
You have yet to give one argument as to why it's necessary to have every chat banned with the report spam function.
You have refused to offer any solutions to a valid problem.
You're just here letting out hot air, go bother some other thread.
That's strange, I thought you stated I wasn't a troll who wasn't worth responding to.
Regardless, I did give one argument as to why it is necessary, and it is the only argument that is needed. This form of punishment has the necessay severity to try to make people stop misusing the chat. The fact that you are trying to deny that argument doesn't change the truth of it.
The meaning of life, is to give life meaning.
0
dixa1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
Just wanted to let you know that I took a day off work and planned to play most of the day tomorrow.
But a couple of hours ago I got silenced due to undercutting other sellers in /zone with writing 3-4 times the same text [wts item for keys/gold] with a 20-30 seconds interval between each.
You can check my logs.
I can't run dungeons , I can't talk to guildies , I can't PVP , I can't get a foundry group.I have decided not to be spending any money supporting your game [founders/guardian/zen etc] until I see you actually handling game breaking issues and getting better customer support.
If you do not support your product why should I ?
I will also not be spending any time in your game until next patch notes.If I like them.
you were spamming. one message per minute or you ARE SPAMMING.
we are sick of it. there is a trade channel, use it.
no there isn't an official trade channel.1 message per minute is not what most people use in the zone chat.I would like a Trade chat.
Arguing the definition of spam is besides the point.
We have proof that people abuse the system by saiyng <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> is ninja plz all spam report him.
Also 1 message in 10 hours can still yield you a chat ban.
A chat ban from the zone chat is fine , but being unable to talk to guildies or party/pvp/other PWE games is unacceptable and renders the product(s) /which some people have paid for/ useless.
I also can't understand how some people can say that its there to "protect us".
Where is the protection here?
People are still selling and looking for group.
Gold spammers mega flood pretty much every 2 minutes , I am still getting in-game spam emails from them , although I myself can't send an email when silenced.I also can't play with my friends and group with people.They can just make another account and spam the city in 2 minutes again.
You "dear people" that advocate that the system is fine need to understand that unless SOMETHING is done the spam will continue no matter how many people you HATE REPORT.
0
calaminthaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
metrynMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Well, I've decided that my personal idea of spam is:
1. People that ask stupid questions.
2. People that don't use English.
3. People that complain about Zone Chat being used for non-AD trading.
4. People that RP, because it annoys me.
So, since I'm part of this community, that means it's okay because I find it to be spam.
Until there's a trade channel, I'm going to keep following those rules. As well as gold spammers and people that spam their trades 100 times or their groups 100 times.
*Edit* 3 minutes and 2 BR guilds and 4 people asking about the AH are reported.
Keep spamming those pics and being obnoxious. Im sure its helping.
0
brodofragginsMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 20Arc User
edited May 2013
I literally just got a 24 hour chat ban for spamming 6 lines of text in a span of 45-60 seconds, I even changed the text slightly after the first 3 spams as to not set off any spam detections, think I'm just going to quit this game, every 2nd day I'm either chat banned for not even spamming or the Auction House is offline (Both today), leaving absolutely nothing to do.
The only way to get trade spammers out of Zone chat is to make it annoying to continue doing it. If you were just banned from zone chat, it wouldn't be annoying enough to stop it.
But now you want to stop it, don't you?
Also I never report anyone looking for a group or posting something every 30 seconds or so, but the trade spammers are terrible and I am helping clean it up.
lol, u missing the point of this thread. just get off and stop posting. <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>
i'm suport this thread, my friend have been banned just because chat in zone : "Hai everybody, morning !"
TROLOLOLOLOLOL
you the most <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, dont know what this thread point of view.
0
metrynMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
It's quite simple guys and girls. Since the whole chat ban system is based around what you feel is inappropriate, all you traders should just start reporting the people who are not trading in zone chat. It's inhibiting your money making ability and it offends you. Suddenly, when there's a flood of tickets about wrongful banning, just for talking in zone chat....maybe they will consider putting in a specific trade chat. (No, not some crappy channel that someone made that only holds 32 people.).
There's no rules to Zone chat, therefore anything could be reported. I'm having fun with it.
Also, with the AH down, how are you supposed to get anything. lol.
To those people who say that if this feature is abused we'll lose it forget it.
There are entire supergroups in CO dedicated to report spamming people announcing costume contests in Zone, it's the same chat server and the same Report Spam setup and nothing has been done about it despite it going on since the Atari days.
There is a reason why the contests channel is invite only these days and these people are it.
0
shroommageMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
you were spamming. one message per minute or you ARE SPAMMING.
we are sick of it. there is a trade channel, use it.
Time to post that image again.
What you posted was an ad hominem. Your argument is that the other poster's claims are invalid because you have personally ruled that he was spamming. His true actions are irrelevant to the discussion, as is your (or anyone's) definition of spam. What matters is what is possible and easy due to this system.
A group of 20 players could mute anyone who speaks in zone chat for 24 hours without repercussions. Does anyone refute this?
Keep in mind that the servers are international. Does anyone deny that players could exist who reports any non-English chat regardless of its context?
Suppose there is a player who enjoys helping others and answering questions. This player attempts to answer any questions asked by new players. Answering in zone chat rather than via whisper will allow other players who may have the same question to see the answer. Is it possible that at least 20 player could simply get tired of seeing his name and report him for spamming?
Are these examples of a system "working as intended," or are they flaws? Cryptic has stated that the system is working as intended and will not be changed. I want to hear from the rest of you, especially those of you who support the system. If you support the system in spite of its flaws, so be it. Simply say so. But I'd like to hear an explanation (other than "cause the devs said so") as to how these examples are not signs of a flawed system.
Even though I'd like to give everyone more credit, I want to avoid further ad hominems by pointing out that I do not use zone chat at all, so this actually doesn't affect me in any direct way.
0
shroommageMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
To those people who say that if this feature is abused we'll lose it forget it.
There are entire supergroups in CO dedicated to report spamming people announcing costume contests in Zone, it's the same chat server and the same Report Spam setup and nothing has been done about it despite it going on since the Atari days.
There is a reason why the contests channel is invite only these days and these people are it.
Their abuse is too specific and controlled. If they instead dedicated themselves to report spamming everyone from zone chat, a lot more people would care.
0
asashiroMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Hooboy! A channel that 41 other people use? 11 of them are even logged on! I'd sure rather try to sell them my gear than the 2000+ people in Protector's Enclave.
Until there is a channel for trading or lfg that everyone is added to by default that they can choose to opt out of there is no point to using anything other than zone.
0
dixa1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
What you posted was an ad hominem. Your argument is that the other poster's claims are invalid because you have personally ruled that he was spamming. His true actions are irrelevant to the discussion, as is your (or anyone's) definition of spam. What matters is what is possible and easy due to this system.
A group of 20 players could mute anyone who speaks in zone chat for 24 hours without repercussions. Does anyone refute this?
Keep in mind that the servers are international. Does anyone deny that players could exist who reports any non-English chat regardless of its context?
Suppose there is a player who enjoys helping others and answering questions. This player attempts to answer any questions asked by new players. Answering in zone chat rather than via whisper will allow other players who may have the same question to see the answer. Is it possible that at least 20 player could simply get tired of seeing his name and report him for spamming?
Are these examples of a system "working as intended," or are they flaws? Cryptic has stated that the system is working as intended and will not be changed. I want to hear from the rest of you, especially those of you who support the system. If you support the system in spite of its flaws, so be it. Simply say so. But I'd like to hear an explanation (other than "cause the devs said so") as to how these examples are not signs of a flawed system.
Even though I'd like to give everyone more credit, I want to avoid further ad hominems by pointing out that I do not use zone chat at all, so this actually doesn't affect me in any direct way.
it's not an ad hominem. for the 20 years i've been playing mud's and mmorpg's anyone sending the same sell message over a zone wide or game wide chat has been considered a spammer by the very generation of online gamers i'm a part of.
if you don't like it, move on. do you know how much item spam there is in star trek online when you dock into earth spacedock? very, very little. because the community made a trade channel, and they use it. you should consider the same.
make a special neverwinter trade chat. advertise it on these forums. get people to join it and spam yer <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in there.
the system will not be changed. it's like this in three of their games now. the game is private domain - you have no constitutional rights here either. in addition spam can be so bad that when you hit right click and report spam there can be upwards of an 80% chance you just reported the wrong name.
0
tredoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
It's people like you two that cause the real issues. I post once and get chat banned from EVERYTHING for 24 hours. You are missing the point. Ban me from zone, fine. But from everything else? That's a joke.
2 days ago I was chat banned for "LF1M CN," not even spamming it. What should I use when I need to find people? What do you suggest zone chat be used for? Roleplaying? Get off your high horse and look at the real issue.
I do think that under the 'O' key, for social, there is a lfg option there.
0
asashiroMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
in addition spam can be so bad that when you hit right click and report spam there can be upwards of an 80% chance you just reported the wrong name.
You would think that right there would be reason enough to not put this automated system in the hands of the players.
0
bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited May 2013
You want to stop this? Have a dev come out and explain the exact intended use of 'report spam', announce it via an in-game popup, (with a warning that misuse of the feature is against the rules), and have someone start doling out warnings, temp bans, then permanent bans, to those who misused the system.
As I keep saying - any behavior which is not punished is in fact encouraged, so by allowing people to use 'report spam' for a purpose other than what it's intended for, without repercussion, is like saying "go ahead and silence anyone you don't like".
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
0
shroommageMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
it's not an ad hominem. for the 20 years i've been playing mud's and mmorpg's anyone sending the same sell message over a zone wide or game wide chat has been considered a spammer by the very generation of online gamers i'm a part of.
if you don't like it, move on. do you know how much item spam there is in star trek online when you dock into earth spacedock? very, very little. because the community made a trade channel, and they use it. you should consider the same.
make a special neverwinter trade chat. advertise it on these forums. get people to join it and spam yer <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in there.
the system will not be changed. it's like this in three of their games now. the game is private domain - you have no constitutional rights here either. in addition spam can be so bad that when you hit right click and report spam there can be upwards of an 80% chance you just reported the wrong name.
If you're not going to read and respond to the content of my post then please refrain from quoting or addressing me.
It was ad hominem. You discussed the person rather than his argument. It was even bordering on name-calling. Do I need to post the image again? What you did this time was "contradiction," wherein you simply state the opposing case with little or no supporting evidence. Everything you said right here has been stated and refuted many times in this thread, and as you just demonstrated, even when someone creates a new argument, you ignore it and repost the same thing, so I'm not going to waste my time until you actually respond to the content of my post.
I remember on CO a player said on Zone chat, "Wolverine sucks!" No spamming it, it was just once. Bam! He got chat-banned.
A more recent CO discussion: http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=214911
Long story short, one group sees a player who happens to have initials in her @handle that suggested she might belong to another group they don't get along with, so they chat-banned her as a revenge attack against a person they thought belonged to a group that had chat-banned one of their own friends (which was done as a revenge for PvP antics).
Stop and process that in reverse order to get the sequence right.
1) A PvP player pissed off her opponents so they chat-banned her. (Is chat-banning meant for that? NO).
2) The PvPer's fellow supergroup members saw somebody they thought belonged to the opponents and so chat-banned the kid as revenge for item 1. (Is chat-banning meant for that? NO).
3) Said victim in item 2 was not even related to the opponents in item 1. So now we have an innocent bystander getting chat-ban griefed. (Icing on the cake? The kid was related to the PvPer.)
And yet, PWE says this is all working as intended...
I remember on CO a player said on Zone chat, "Wolverine sucks!" No spamming it, it was just once. Bam! He got chat-banned.
A more recent CO discussion: http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=214911
Long story short, one group sees a player who happens to have initials in her @handle that suggested she might belong to another group they don't get along with, so they chat-banned her as a revenge attack against a person they thought belonged to a group that had chat-banned one of their own friends (which was done as a revenge for PvP antics).
Stop and process that in reverse order to get the sequence right.
1) A PvP player pissed off her opponents so they chat-banned her. (Is chat-banning meant for that? NO).
2) The PvPer's fellow supergroup members saw somebody they thought belonged to the opponents and so chat-banned the kid as revenge for item 1. (Is chat-banning meant for that? NO).
3) Said victim in item 2 was not even related to the opponents in item 1. So now we have an innocent bystander getting chat-ban griefed. (Icing on the cake? The kid was related to the PvPer.)
And yet, PWE says this is all working as intended...
I'd forgotten about PvP. It's extremely easy for groups of players to completely mute their opposition. Those with Vent/TS won't care too much, although their "Call for Help" messages will be suppressed. I can easily see this being used by premades and their guilds to shut down pugs, which I expect it already is in CO.
I'm consistently baffled by Cryptic's incredible lack of foresight. After AD exploits, AFK PvPing, and random groups having party leaders with the ability to claim all loot for themselves and kick whomever they please, you'd think I'd be used to it by now. It's not just lazy. It's beyond amateur. I understand they make a profit regardless, but avoiding fiascoes like these would help to, you know, make more. I can only suppose whoever is in charge of these decisions isn't seeing any of the money anyway and isn't payed enough to care.
EDIT: The thing that gets me isn't just the innocent bystander. It's the casual way muting is accepted.
Wasn't to bothered as someone who PvP's now and then I expect to be muted now and then and besides I talk to the peeps I run mmo's with via XFIRE so no real hardship for me.
I cannot fathom how this is deemed acceptable on any level.
Suppose there is a player who enjoys helping others and answering questions. This player attempts to answer any questions asked by new players. Answering in zone chat rather than via whisper will allow other players who may have the same question to see the answer. Is it possible that at least 20 player could simply get tired of seeing his name and report him for spamming?
Quite possible. I'd give it...a 95% chance of happening within the week of this posting.
Are these examples of a system "working as intended," or are they flaws? Cryptic has stated that the system is working as intended and will not be changed. I want to hear from the rest of you, especially those of you who support the system. If you support the system in spite of its flaws, so be it. Simply say so. But I'd like to hear an explanation (other than "cause the devs said so") as to how these examples are not signs of a flawed system.
They are indeed, signs of an inherently flawed system. Simply because the developers refuse to acknowledge the problem, does not mean it is not a problem.
Even though I'd like to give everyone more credit, I want to avoid further ad hominems by pointing out that I do not use zone chat at all, so this actually doesn't affect me in any direct way.
Right there with you. Zone chat in every game I play gets turned off within thirty seconds of my logging in, and never turned back on for the duration of my play time in the aforementioned game.
I've suggested it time and again....strip out the chat ban part of both ignore and report spam. Such a thing should never have been given to the general populace, and if Cryptic cannot be bothered to moderate ingame conversations then...do not leave it up to us. Because even the nobelist of intentions can go wrong. Especially online. But, because it -IS- the internet, some jackwad has something irritating to say back, or completely misconstrues what point is trying to be made...and we're back to square one.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
0
gyurdiousMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
If you're not going to read and respond to the content of my post then please refrain from quoting or addressing me.
It was ad hominem. You discussed the person rather than his argument. It was even bordering on name-calling. Do I need to post the image again? What you did this time was "contradiction," wherein you simply state the opposing case with little or no supporting evidence. Everything you said right here has been stated and refuted many times in this thread, and as you just demonstrated, even when someone creates a new argument, you ignore it and repost the same thing, so I'm not going to waste my time until you actually respond to the content of my post.
This. Specifically the last bit, "...you ignore it and repost the same thing, ..."
It's beyond amateur. I understand they make a profit regardless, but avoiding fiascoes like these would help to, you know, make more. I can only suppose whoever is in charge of these decisions isn't seeing any of the money anyway and isn't payed enough to care.
How many new employees do you think it would take to provide 24/7 365 chat multi-lingual monitoring and response across all their games? Upwards of 12. You think PWE haven't done the math and figure they'd like to keep that million plus bucks themselves?
They are not idiots, they have a chat system that costs them no more than a few butt-hurt FTP customers. I would guess very few leave because of the system in place. either way you can be sure they've done the sums and picked the most cost-effective system for them.
A single guild could easily hold the entire game hostage with this mechanic, forcing the devs to bring down the servers and issue more bans and rollbacks resulting in time-lost for the players, faith lost in the devs and resulting, ultimately, in lost revenue.
If they're not going to fix the system for the right reasons, they could at least fix it for the selfish ones.
0
cr0pMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
How many new employees do you think it would take to provide 24/7 365 chat multi-lingual monitoring and response across all their games? Upwards of 12. You think PWE haven't done the math and figure they'd like to keep that million plus bucks themselves?
They are not idiots, they have a chat system that costs them no more than a few butt-hurt FTP customers. I would guess very few leave because of the system in place. either way you can be sure they've done the sums and picked the most cost-effective system for them.
Many alternatives to the current implementation have been suggested, and I've seen not a single one that has involved 24/7 chat-monitoring. Also, customers who haven't payed should always be viewed by the company as customers who haven't payed yet. Every time a player is frustrated by anything in the game, in or out of Cryptic's control, they become less likely to spend money. Happy players spend. Unhappy players don't.
I can make two guesses as to why they have such a horrible system. 1) Whoever decided upon it isn't seeing any of the money that would be saved by creating a better one and therefore doesn't care, or 2) they have only looked at cost-efficiency for the short term.
I'm leaning toward the second one based on Cryptic's track record of cutting corners, putting out unfinished products, and charging huge amounts of money before the game is even playable.
The arrogance and complete lack of empathy of their devs and mods is staggering. For example, a community moderator appointed by Cryptic/PWE had this to say on the STO forums in response to automatic account bans given to players for merely saying the name of a goldseller in any channel, regardless of context:
I get it sucks being banned by an auto system however in my personal opinion that is the best option. It'll get the majority of spammers (and no just doing spaces or _ or / in between words most likely won't help since they've probably used a regex) and yes sadly there will be some people hit on accident. But unbanning those accidentally hit is faster than having to deal with the spammers.
Emphasis mine. "You can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs." But if the omelet was for your customers, and the customers are the eggs, doesn't this defeat the entire purpose of the omelet?
Comments
Thanks, Asashiro. That's the first statement I've seen where the argument makes the report system unreasonable. If you're not in the same zone with someone, or haven't had a private message, it shouldn't count as a demerit against you. If you can't click on the chat someone sent you, a console command shouldn't tack on demerit points.
Which, coincidentally....just so happens to be(90% of the time) located to the left of the person's post...in orange-yellow letters. Yup. Forum handles=ingame @names. Most of the time, thanks to PWI's integration of Cryptic.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=10317131#post10317131
Emphasis mine.
[SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]
"YES, PLEASE"
Vote YES for the Foundry in Champions Online.
@Captain-Electric | CoH/Virtue veteran | Proud new Champion
That's strange, I thought you stated I wasn't a troll who wasn't worth responding to.
Regardless, I did give one argument as to why it is necessary, and it is the only argument that is needed. This form of punishment has the necessay severity to try to make people stop misusing the chat. The fact that you are trying to deny that argument doesn't change the truth of it.
you were spamming. one message per minute or you ARE SPAMMING.
we are sick of it. there is a trade channel, use it.
Arguing the definition of spam is besides the point.
We have proof that people abuse the system by saiyng <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> is ninja plz all spam report him.
Also 1 message in 10 hours can still yield you a chat ban.
A chat ban from the zone chat is fine , but being unable to talk to guildies or party/pvp/other PWE games is unacceptable and renders the product(s) /which some people have paid for/ useless.
Where is the protection here?
People are still selling and looking for group.
Gold spammers mega flood pretty much every 2 minutes , I am still getting in-game spam emails from them , although I myself can't send an email when silenced.I also can't play with my friends and group with people.They can just make another account and spam the city in 2 minutes again.
You "dear people" that advocate that the system is fine need to understand that unless SOMETHING is done the spam will continue no matter how many people you HATE REPORT.
LOL. I'm sorry, but that never happened.
1. People that ask stupid questions.
2. People that don't use English.
3. People that complain about Zone Chat being used for non-AD trading.
4. People that RP, because it annoys me.
So, since I'm part of this community, that means it's okay because I find it to be spam.
Until there's a trade channel, I'm going to keep following those rules. As well as gold spammers and people that spam their trades 100 times or their groups 100 times.
*Edit* 3 minutes and 2 BR guilds and 4 people asking about the AH are reported.
Keep spamming those pics and being obnoxious. Im sure its helping.
**** game.
lol, u missing the point of this thread. just get off and stop posting. <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>
i'm suport this thread, my friend have been banned just because chat in zone : "Hai everybody, morning !"
TROLOLOLOLOLOL
you the most <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, dont know what this thread point of view.
There's no rules to Zone chat, therefore anything could be reported. I'm having fun with it.
Also, with the AH down, how are you supposed to get anything. lol.
There are entire supergroups in CO dedicated to report spamming people announcing costume contests in Zone, it's the same chat server and the same Report Spam setup and nothing has been done about it despite it going on since the Atari days.
There is a reason why the contests channel is invite only these days and these people are it.
Time to post that image again.
What you posted was an ad hominem. Your argument is that the other poster's claims are invalid because you have personally ruled that he was spamming. His true actions are irrelevant to the discussion, as is your (or anyone's) definition of spam. What matters is what is possible and easy due to this system.
A group of 20 players could mute anyone who speaks in zone chat for 24 hours without repercussions. Does anyone refute this?
Keep in mind that the servers are international. Does anyone deny that players could exist who reports any non-English chat regardless of its context?
Suppose there is a player who enjoys helping others and answering questions. This player attempts to answer any questions asked by new players. Answering in zone chat rather than via whisper will allow other players who may have the same question to see the answer. Is it possible that at least 20 player could simply get tired of seeing his name and report him for spamming?
Are these examples of a system "working as intended," or are they flaws? Cryptic has stated that the system is working as intended and will not be changed. I want to hear from the rest of you, especially those of you who support the system. If you support the system in spite of its flaws, so be it. Simply say so. But I'd like to hear an explanation (other than "cause the devs said so") as to how these examples are not signs of a flawed system.
Even though I'd like to give everyone more credit, I want to avoid further ad hominems by pointing out that I do not use zone chat at all, so this actually doesn't affect me in any direct way.
Their abuse is too specific and controlled. If they instead dedicated themselves to report spamming everyone from zone chat, a lot more people would care.
Hooboy! A channel that 41 other people use? 11 of them are even logged on! I'd sure rather try to sell them my gear than the 2000+ people in Protector's Enclave.
Until there is a channel for trading or lfg that everyone is added to by default that they can choose to opt out of there is no point to using anything other than zone.
it's not an ad hominem. for the 20 years i've been playing mud's and mmorpg's anyone sending the same sell message over a zone wide or game wide chat has been considered a spammer by the very generation of online gamers i'm a part of.
if you don't like it, move on. do you know how much item spam there is in star trek online when you dock into earth spacedock? very, very little. because the community made a trade channel, and they use it. you should consider the same.
make a special neverwinter trade chat. advertise it on these forums. get people to join it and spam yer <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in there.
the system will not be changed. it's like this in three of their games now. the game is private domain - you have no constitutional rights here either. in addition spam can be so bad that when you hit right click and report spam there can be upwards of an 80% chance you just reported the wrong name.
I do think that under the 'O' key, for social, there is a lfg option there.
You would think that right there would be reason enough to not put this automated system in the hands of the players.
As I keep saying - any behavior which is not punished is in fact encouraged, so by allowing people to use 'report spam' for a purpose other than what it's intended for, without repercussion, is like saying "go ahead and silence anyone you don't like".
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
If you're not going to read and respond to the content of my post then please refrain from quoting or addressing me.
It was ad hominem. You discussed the person rather than his argument. It was even bordering on name-calling. Do I need to post the image again? What you did this time was "contradiction," wherein you simply state the opposing case with little or no supporting evidence. Everything you said right here has been stated and refuted many times in this thread, and as you just demonstrated, even when someone creates a new argument, you ignore it and repost the same thing, so I'm not going to waste my time until you actually respond to the content of my post.
A more recent CO discussion: http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=214911
Long story short, one group sees a player who happens to have initials in her @handle that suggested she might belong to another group they don't get along with, so they chat-banned her as a revenge attack against a person they thought belonged to a group that had chat-banned one of their own friends (which was done as a revenge for PvP antics).
Stop and process that in reverse order to get the sequence right.
1) A PvP player pissed off her opponents so they chat-banned her. (Is chat-banning meant for that? NO).
2) The PvPer's fellow supergroup members saw somebody they thought belonged to the opponents and so chat-banned the kid as revenge for item 1. (Is chat-banning meant for that? NO).
3) Said victim in item 2 was not even related to the opponents in item 1. So now we have an innocent bystander getting chat-ban griefed. (Icing on the cake? The kid was related to the PvPer.)
And yet, PWE says this is all working as intended...
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I'd forgotten about PvP. It's extremely easy for groups of players to completely mute their opposition. Those with Vent/TS won't care too much, although their "Call for Help" messages will be suppressed. I can easily see this being used by premades and their guilds to shut down pugs, which I expect it already is in CO.
I'm consistently baffled by Cryptic's incredible lack of foresight. After AD exploits, AFK PvPing, and random groups having party leaders with the ability to claim all loot for themselves and kick whomever they please, you'd think I'd be used to it by now. It's not just lazy. It's beyond amateur. I understand they make a profit regardless, but avoiding fiascoes like these would help to, you know, make more. I can only suppose whoever is in charge of these decisions isn't seeing any of the money anyway and isn't payed enough to care.
EDIT: The thing that gets me isn't just the innocent bystander. It's the casual way muting is accepted.
I cannot fathom how this is deemed acceptable on any level.
Not in the least. Matter of fact, I support this idea, as I've seen it happen.
Again, not in the least. I fully support this idea, as I've seen it happen.
Quite possible. I'd give it...a 95% chance of happening within the week of this posting.
They are indeed, signs of an inherently flawed system. Simply because the developers refuse to acknowledge the problem, does not mean it is not a problem.
Right there with you. Zone chat in every game I play gets turned off within thirty seconds of my logging in, and never turned back on for the duration of my play time in the aforementioned game.
I've suggested it time and again....strip out the chat ban part of both ignore and report spam. Such a thing should never have been given to the general populace, and if Cryptic cannot be bothered to moderate ingame conversations then...do not leave it up to us. Because even the nobelist of intentions can go wrong. Especially online. But, because it -IS- the internet, some jackwad has something irritating to say back, or completely misconstrues what point is trying to be made...and we're back to square one.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
This. Specifically the last bit, "...you ignore it and repost the same thing, ..."
How many new employees do you think it would take to provide 24/7 365 chat multi-lingual monitoring and response across all their games? Upwards of 12. You think PWE haven't done the math and figure they'd like to keep that million plus bucks themselves?
They are not idiots, they have a chat system that costs them no more than a few butt-hurt FTP customers. I would guess very few leave because of the system in place. either way you can be sure they've done the sums and picked the most cost-effective system for them.
If they're not going to fix the system for the right reasons, they could at least fix it for the selfish ones.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?302242-Poll-Does-the-quot-Report-Spam-quot-feature-need-a-tweak
Many alternatives to the current implementation have been suggested, and I've seen not a single one that has involved 24/7 chat-monitoring. Also, customers who haven't payed should always be viewed by the company as customers who haven't payed yet. Every time a player is frustrated by anything in the game, in or out of Cryptic's control, they become less likely to spend money. Happy players spend. Unhappy players don't.
I can make two guesses as to why they have such a horrible system. 1) Whoever decided upon it isn't seeing any of the money that would be saved by creating a better one and therefore doesn't care, or 2) they have only looked at cost-efficiency for the short term.
I'm leaning toward the second one based on Cryptic's track record of cutting corners, putting out unfinished products, and charging huge amounts of money before the game is even playable.
The arrogance and complete lack of empathy of their devs and mods is staggering. For example, a community moderator appointed by Cryptic/PWE had this to say on the STO forums in response to automatic account bans given to players for merely saying the name of a goldseller in any channel, regardless of context: Emphasis mine. "You can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs." But if the omelet was for your customers, and the customers are the eggs, doesn't this defeat the entire purpose of the omelet?