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FAQ - AD/AH Exploit Follow-Up

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    paganhawkpaganhawk Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    syberghost wrote: »
    No, it's not a huge loss at all. It's people who were going to leave anyway, in short order. Since unlike GW2 this game has no barrier to entry, they will be replaced by new people who actually want to PLAY the game, rapidly.

    If you tried it once and reported it, good on you, that's called testing. If you tried it multiple times and racked up big AD, goodbye; you're not an asset to the game, you're an exploiter and you won't be missed.


    HEAR, HEAR!!!!! Good explanation!!!!
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    meysameysa Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 72
    edited May 2013
    nebrous wrote: »
    In your previous statement you used the words "ANY currrency"instead of "the MAJORITY of currency.
    Also, i would recommend banning e-mail adresses and IP's as well, IF you are really intent on fully banning the perpetrators.

    Since an email account it tied to the account they banned and they do not allow multiple accounts per email address, I would assume that banning an account bans an email address. Also, doing an IP Ban isn't necessarily the proper thing to do here. for several reasons.

    1. Everyone, in fact almost nobody, has a static IP address that can be thought of as theirs.
    2. The forced DHCP settings most ISP's do not renew the IP address lease that your modem/router gets. Because of this a person could have multiple IP addresses in a week, for their modem/router, if they know how to do it.
    3. Even if they could guarantee that the IP address a device got would always be the same, there are many situations where banning the IP address for the router/modem wouldn't be reasonable. (Example: College dorm, apartment complex/cafe WiFi, home with multiple players, etc...)

    IP bans are good tools to have in your belt, but they must be used judiciously after much study or you risk losing legitimate players.
    Storming Monte Hall Review Thread
    Storming Monte Hall NW-DRAQHLR54
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    etherealjetherealj Member Posts: 1,091 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    That news post on the front page is a terrible joke. This exploit existed in STO and they claim they were able to promptly fix it? ****ing hilarious.
    Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
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    paganhawkpaganhawk Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    gorlie102 wrote: »
    Nothing worse than listining to people you know brag about how they abused the exploit before the rollback time and didn't get their **** banned, that they still have 200cats and 500mil AD on mules.

    Patience.... give them time to find all cheaters.... next week is soon enought to start *****ing about it.
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    redneckroninredneckronin Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    paganhawk wrote: »
    Patience.... give them time to find all cheaters.... next week is soon enought to start *****ing about it.


    I disagree.

    They had the tool-set yesterday to fix the problem once and for all.

    They chose not to do so.

    It sends the wrong message, both to exploiters and to legit players.

    All The Best
    Campaign: Call Of The Wild - Information, Links To Review Threads, Screenshots

    Looking For Reviews For Your Foundry Quest?
    Drop By Scribe's Enclave & Meet Up With Volunteer Reviewers.
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    hemocrithemocrit Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 34
    edited May 2013
    clcmercy wrote: »
    The mere fact that you spent time to do all this "math" to justify yourself on an internet forum is......amazing. And damning.

    Also, the mere fact that you spent a thousand dollars of mommy and daddy's money to get these things means someone's getting grounded soon, because if you were a reasonable adult without a gambling addiction, you certainly must be a thirteen year old with the parent's money.

    You've done nothing to me, personally, I agree. I'm not -angry- with you, either. I'm merely pointing out the holes I see in what I perceive to be a fallacious story. No malice aforethought here.

    Son, there are some of us who paid into the game to support it who have more money than we know what to do with. It is called disposable income. For some, a disposable income means $20 a week on beer. For others, $1000 a month on whatever. For others, $10,000 a month on whatever. Who are you to judge us? The game needs to be supported by somebody so people like you can "play for free." End your sniveling.
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    meysameysa Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 72
    edited May 2013
    eidama wrote: »
    Not directing this at you personally but, steal a penny or steal a million dollars...still a theif.

    I don't disagree, but just like in real life, there are levels of theft. Someone who steals a penny does not deserve the same punishment that Bernie Madoff got. My point is that it isn't a "one solution fits all" problem and hopefully, they realize this too.
    eidama wrote: »
    It's admirable that you've modified your thinking toward exploiting, I personally don't have that much confidence toward exploiters in general, especially the ones we've experienced recently in this game. Using Twitch to illustrate how it's done, millions of AD on multiple mules, etc., bragging about it and kudos from their followers...pure garbage.

    My point is that, aside from certain crimes, everybody deserves a second chance. Everybody out there has gotten one at some point in their life too. You can't make somebody change, but if you provide them with an opportunity to learn and grow then many people will. This doesn't mean they shouldn't be afforded an extra level of scrutiny for a time, it just means they should be given the opportunity to see the error of their ways and correct them.

    Does it take extra time and effort to do this?

    Absolutely, but we'll have a stronger and more vibrant community, in the end, because of it.
    Storming Monte Hall Review Thread
    Storming Monte Hall NW-DRAQHLR54
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    paganhawkpaganhawk Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I disagree.

    They had the tool-set yesterday to fix the problem once and for all.

    They chose not to do so.

    It sends the wrong message, both to exploiters and to legit players.

    All The Best

    Explain better please? Tool set to fix what problem? The bug itself? probably, and since AH isn't back yet, we don't know if they fixed it or not. The problem with the exploiters? that is a lot of info to sort through, and they need to try to make sure they DON'T ban people that may have gotten large amounts correctly by being lucky. So maybe they have banned the most obvious people, and are double/triple checking the ones not so obvious... hmmmm?
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    redneckroninredneckronin Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    paganhawk wrote: »
    Explain better please? Tool set to fix what problem? The bug itself? probably, and since AH isn't back yet, we don't know if they fixed it or not. The problem with the exploiters? that is a lot of info to sort through, and they need to try to make sure they DON'T ban people that may have gotten large amounts correctly by being lucky. So maybe they have banned the most obvious people, and are double/triple checking the ones not so obvious... hmmmm?


    Closing the exploit and banning those who used it is only one element of fixing the problem.

    The problem, the reason the AH and Exchange are closes, is that the influx of exploited AD and goods has destroyed what little balance there was in the game-economy.

    There is only one way to be 100% certain of removing all the exploited AG and exploited Gear, a server-wipe.

    They could, and should, have done this yesterday. The forums would still be full of people complaining but the problem would have been resolved.

    As it is the forums are full of people complaining, the AH and Exchange are locked, and the problem hasn't been resolved.

    From a trouble-shooting point of view they chose not only the wrong option, but the very worst option.

    All The Best
    Campaign: Call Of The Wild - Information, Links To Review Threads, Screenshots

    Looking For Reviews For Your Foundry Quest?
    Drop By Scribe's Enclave & Meet Up With Volunteer Reviewers.
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    deadwizarddeadwizard Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    :pcan't wait for the yet to come!! love the game so far... I tink the best part is the indepth lore. Keep up the good work everyone.
    dezstravus wrote: »
    Got questions about how we are handling the Astral Diamonds/Auction House exploit? We will be updating this thread with the answers to the most common questions about todays downtime, and what it means for the adventurers of Neverwinter.

    Q: What happened?

    A: Early Sunday morning a very small group of players discovered and abused a game exploit within the Neverwinter Open Beta that affected the Auction House and Astral Diamonds.


    Q: What exactly has changed?

    A: We took the Neverwinter OBT down for emergency maintenance, found the bug, corrected it and tested it. In order to fix the damage this exploit caused to the in-game economy, we implemented a necessary rollback of our servers to 5:20 AM PDT the morning of May 19, 2013. This means that characters have been reverted to the state they were in at that time, pre-exploit damage. That includes items, level, experience, etc.

    We know that character progress matters in Neverwinter, so as an apology for the lost time and as profound thanks for your continued support throughout this Beta, we have put together a package of items to give everyone. More information about the Caturday Survivor's Pack is available here.


    Q: What about ZEN I spent/transferred after 5:20 AM PDT?

    A: You'll have any and all ZEN that you transferred to Neverwinter -- we tracked all transfers during that time and made sure players have the ZEN they should have. If you spent ZEN on items during that time, you'll need to re-buy the items, but you'll have all of that ZEN. No one will lose any money they spent on Neverwinter because of this fix. If you have any issue, please see the customer and billing support contacts below.


    Q: I leveled up after 5:20 AM PDT -- what happens to that progress?

    A: Unfortunately, in order to properly fix this exploit, that progress has, by necessity, been lost. We know how much that progress means to all Neverwinter players, though, so we have put together a package of items to thank everyone for their support. More information about the Caturday Survivor's Pack is available here.


    Q: What about the ZEN I bought/sold after 5:20 AM PDT in the Astral Diamond Exchange?

    A: All ZEN exchanged during this period will be returned to the original owners.


    Q: What about my astral diamonds?

    A: We are currently gathering information on this and will update this question as soon as we have a complete answer to post.


    Q: What about respec tokens, or other consumables?

    A: You'll have everything you had at 5:20 AM PDT. If you had the consumables before 5:20 AM PDT, you'll still have them; if you bought them with ZEN or gold that you had before 5:20 AM PDT, you'll still have that gold or ZEN.


    Q: I have another question, where can I get answers?

    A: Post it in this thread! We'll dig through to find common questions, and we'll edit this post to include them.


    Q: But... I won the Armored Nightmare from a lockbox! I'll never get that lucky again!

    A: We know how much that would sting. We are looking into ways we can make it better, but we don
  • Options
    eidamaeidama Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    meysa wrote: »
    I don't disagree, but just like in real life, there are levels of theft. Someone who steals a penny does not deserve the same punishment that Bernie Madoff got. My point is that it isn't a "one solution fits all" problem and hopefully, they realize this too.



    My point is that, aside from certain crimes, everybody deserves a second chance. Everybody out there has gotten one at some point in their life too. You can't make somebody change, but if you provide them with an opportunity to learn and grow then many people will. This doesn't mean they shouldn't be afforded an extra level of scrutiny for a time, it just means they should be given the opportunity to see the error of their ways and correct them.

    Does it take extra time and effort to do this?

    Absolutely, but we'll have a stronger and more vibrant community, in the end, because of it.

    I think our thoughts on the matter are similar. Our differences seem to be in levels of tolerance and methods of correction.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    > http://mopp4.net/ <
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    copticonecopticone Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Q: Celestial Coins were lost as a result of the downtime? What will be done about this?

    A: We understand that this is a concern and we are aware of the feedback. Though we may not be able to provide replacement Celestial coins, we are certainly looking into it. As we cannot guarantee replacements, we are ensuring we shortly deliver a robust thank-you pack.

    Not to sound unappreciative, well in all honesty I am. But can we please exchange the amazing Robust thank-you pack that some people are drooling over, for the celestial coins we lost?
    Check out my personal Nerf Proof T2 Thaumaturge Build.
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    groomaar69groomaar69 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I was a WoW addict for quite some time and I remember logging in and being naked, with no money, gear, or tokens left to my name, they even emptied my guild vault. When this happened I filled out a ticket with a GM and within 24hrs I had all my stuff back, and had wound up with more money than I started. That being said, is there a reason they can't go back into the game and return all the loot that people recieved during the roll-back period? I'm just saying from a software developer PoV, isn't it short sited not to keep a character/item interaction database for each server? Then when someone says i got X item on X character you could look up the character and see if in fact they had recieved and item and it had been lost during the roll-back. I have to admit that rolling back a few days to fix a few weeks worth of problems is kinda like wasting your time. As it has been stated many people had done this exploit and had been doing it for quite some time. Many of them may not have even got an items for AD for a few weeks, and as a result will have lost nothing from the few day Roll-back. I Love this game, the action combat is way better than the tab-targeting of the genre's classics before, The crafting is streamlined and doesn't require hours of flying around trying to beat that **** gnome to the adamantine node! There is a lot of work yet to be done, and as long as the game is up, the work will never end. This Is a BETA guys, and they're going to be doing a lot of work, and a lot of learning. If you don't make mistakes, then you have nothing to learn from. For all those of you who lost awesome mounts and loot, I can understand your frustration and my advice is, don't give up on PW and Neverwinter. Keep opening tickets, keep letting them know your issues, and of course keep playing, keep reporting bugs, and keep having fun. Mounts are pretty but, not required to have a good time with your friends!
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    meysameysa Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 72
    edited May 2013
    eidama wrote: »
    I think our thoughts on the matter are similar. Our differences seem to be in levels of tolerance and methods of correction.

    Don't get me wrong, if a person who has been given a second chance fails to modify their behavior, I'm all about increasing the level of punishment. I've been told many times that I have some of the most draconian views on crime and punishment. However, if you're going to give someone a second chance, then you have to make sure it truly is a second chance. Making a mistake is the best way to learn a lesson for most people, because the punishment stays in their mind.
    Storming Monte Hall Review Thread
    Storming Monte Hall NW-DRAQHLR54
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    paganhawkpaganhawk Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Closing the exploit and banning those who used it is only one element of fixing the problem.

    The problem, the reason the AH and Exchange are closes, is that the influx of exploited AD and goods has destroyed what little balance there was in the game-economy.

    There is only one way to be 100% certain of removing all the exploited AG and exploited Gear, a server-wipe.

    They could, and should, have done this yesterday. The forums would still be full of people complaining but the problem would have been resolved.

    As it is the forums are full of people complaining, the AH and Exchange are locked, and the problem hasn't been resolved.

    From a trouble-shooting point of view they chose not only the wrong option, but the very worst option.

    All The Best


    OK, thank you for clarifying. I do agree that the only way to be 100% of removing all the exploited stuff would be a server wipe, but not convinced that that is the best way... I kinda feel that that would be like redoing all the currency for a country cause some counterfiet (sp?) money was produced... however, you are intitled you your opinion just like I (and everyone else) am, and I have no problem with that. I do believe (from reading what they have posted) that the reason the ah is still locked is at least two-fold... One, to make **** sure bug is fixed, and two, to try to find the MAJORITY of those who exploited this.... almost impossible to find all of them.

    Nice to have a reasonable discussion here, Thank you.
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    etherealjetherealj Member Posts: 1,091 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Why the thank you pack is not just a coffer of enchants I have no idea. Fixes basically everything. That someone actually spent the time to make a cat skin for the cloak model boggles the mind. Can you actually change the appearance of a cloak? The only button I've seen light up on necks has been disable visual. Did they just spend the time making a green item no one will wear for long? :D
    Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
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    eidamaeidama Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    meysa wrote: »
    Don't get me wrong, if a person who has been given a second chance fails to modify their behavior, I'm all about increasing the level of punishment. I've been told many times that I have some of the most draconian views on crime and punishment. However, if you're going to give someone a second chance, then you have to make sure it truly is a second chance. Making a mistake is the best way to learn a lesson for most people, because the punishment stays in their mind.

    Perhaps I'm jaded. The level of brazenness & cavalier attitude of the exploiters regarding their actions in general or the affect their actions have toward others is, imho, alarming. If there were some honest, discernible level of remorse on their part...I may be inclined to give someone a second chance. What I see from any exploiters, in this game so far, is not anything close to remorse. I'd like to add that I admire your positive attitude, it's inspiring.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    > http://mopp4.net/ <
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    hemocrithemocrit Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 34
    edited May 2013
    paganhawk wrote: »
    OK, thank you for clarifying. I do agree that the only way to be 100% of removing all the exploited stuff would be a server wipe, but not convinced that that is the best way... I kinda feel that that would be like redoing all the currency for a country cause some counterfiet (sp?) money was produced... however, you are intitled you your opinion just like I (and everyone else) am, and I have no problem with that. I do believe (from reading what they have posted) that the reason the ah is still locked is at least two-fold... One, to make **** sure bug is fixed, and two, to try to find the MAJORITY of those who exploited this.... almost impossible to find all of them.

    Nice to have a reasonable discussion here, Thank you.

    I believe that a majority of folk who are calling for a full wipe are those who have already lost everything and therefore have nothing left to lose, as a result of being banned for cheating. So, the cheaters are out in droves to "salt the fields" and scorch the earth to compensate for their own sorry existence.

    Honestly though, its hard to blame them; its not their fault they weren't born with a soul! Too bad this game doesn't have a "Soul Test" as part of account creation.
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    paganhawkpaganhawk Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    hemocrit wrote: »
    I believe that a majority of folk who are calling for a full wipe are those who have already lost everything and therefore have nothing left to lose, as a result of being banned for cheating. So, the cheaters are out in droves to "salt the fields" and scorch the earth to compensate for their own sorry existence.

    Honestly though, its hard to blame them; its not their fault they weren't born with a soul! Too bad this game doesn't have a "Soul Test" as part of account creation.

    of course, as I have been known to say (Here, there, and frequently) Morals are taught, Not instinctive, so may have less to do with born without a soul, as Raised to be selfish.... lol.
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    hamoct72hamoct72 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 48
    edited May 2013
    I lost 1.5 million ADS (legitimately earned) and 1700 zen.. and all I get is a ****ty cloak?!
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    davan9kdavan9k Member Posts: 66
    edited May 2013
    hemocrit wrote: »
    I believe that a majority of folk who are calling for a full wipe are those who have already lost everything and therefore have nothing left to lose, as a result of being banned for cheating. So, the cheaters are out in droves to "salt the fields" and scorch the earth to compensate for their own sorry existence.

    Honestly though, its hard to blame them; its not their fault they weren't born with a soul! Too bad this game doesn't have a "Soul Test" as part of account creation.


    no problem do log in and show you my stuff if you want. i got alot to lose and im not banned ( yet ). but im still for server wipe.
    http://mmogfails.blogspot.com/ - never(exploitfree)winter
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    alreadytakentooalreadytakentoo Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Awwww... The cloak is cute. But really, the pack is merely 5 more items to store in my teeny tiny bank space. Woot!

    I didn't lose anything but faith in the game economy and a lot of hours reading what a bunch of idiots have to say about this, but you could have at least made the stackable rewards stack with other like items we already have. Come on!
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    etherealjetherealj Member Posts: 1,091 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    The pack should just be a 1 slot bag.
    Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
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    jukejointjezebeljukejointjezebel Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Just as a point or reference, the rollback didn't actually do a whole lot.
    I was talking to one of my fellow Goons on EVE this morning since he was one of the folks who got in early on the exploit, and he informed me they only banned one of his accounts, they didn't ban any of his other accounts that he laundered AD to, and he figures he had around 80 million AD spread around on his other accounts, so it didn't hurt him at all, and I doubt it bothered any of the other peeps that got in on this exploit early.

    And are you going to report this sterling example of everything wrong with entitled jerks in MMOs?
    300wc45.jpgfa0uv6.jpg
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    redneckroninredneckronin Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    hemocrit wrote: »
    I believe that a majority of folk who are calling for a full wipe are those who have already lost everything and therefore have nothing left to lose, as a result of being banned for cheating. So, the cheaters are out in droves to "salt the fields" and scorch the earth to compensate for their own sorry existence.

    Honestly though, its hard to blame them; its not their fault they weren't born with a soul! Too bad this game doesn't have a "Soul Test" as part of account creation.

    Well, that may be your opinion.

    For myself, I have never cheated in any on-line game, in fact I spent three years as active member of a community led anti-cheat group for PunkBuster "protected" games and in that time personally submitted over 100 confirmed cheats to the community ban-list.

    My enjoyment of games such as this comes from the challenge, cheating would invalidate that.

    All The Best
    Campaign: Call Of The Wild - Information, Links To Review Threads, Screenshots

    Looking For Reviews For Your Foundry Quest?
    Drop By Scribe's Enclave & Meet Up With Volunteer Reviewers.
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    seteleecheteseteleechete Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    443434343434344334
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    varriot1993varriot1993 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    So, I, who created my character in this period, and pretty much devoted my entire sunday to get into this game, wont get this Survivors pack as my character have been deleted. Am i correct about this assumption?
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    manathayriamanathayria Member Posts: 124 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    And are you going to report this sterling example of everything wrong with entitled jerks in MMOs?

    Would be nice if he would, but I'm doubting it.

    @ those wanting a server wipe.

    I believe we're seeing a prematurely aged econemy because of the exploit. It will over time recover - but it will need time.

    Bugs and exploits do not mean you need to wipe the server - it means you get rid of those exploiting it as much as possible and persue getting them out of the game. If you were to wipe the server for every little thing that ticks you off and let someone else get ahead in a game you would be seeing the vast majority of MMOs out there with no player base because they're wiping every year, if not more often.

    Server wipes will not solve the problem, they will however drive off a fair number of your casual players that have not otherwise been impacted by the exploit.

    As an example - DDO has had glitches with some of their annual events. One such glitch allowed players to make millions of plat using the exploit. Exploiters were banned - yes, permanently with no second chances. The currency on the characters banned was obviously removed from game - their alt accounts/mules still had the money, they'd already flooded the econemy with quite a bit of it. Remember as well, DDO has you pay for each quest pack - getting everything in game will cost around 200$ or better at the end of the day - many of those that were banned were long term players that lost years worth of work as the best gear is rare drops, which also have three rare drops to upgrade them - only one of those four drops (including the rare item itself) can be bought on AH from other players. The rest you had to be there for the drop.

    We did not miss those individuals from the DDO community. Not a single one of them.

    We saw the econemy begin to recover over the period of a month, within a few months prices had dropped back to normal.

    Cryptic/PWE has a unique problem on their hands that forces them to keep the AH down for a longer time than DDO did, above and beyond bans, they're dealing with people's real world money through their AH. Something that is a very big issue if they don't get rid of the exploiters.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    /Channel_Join NW_Legit_Community to run Dungeons without the exploits
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    etherealjetherealj Member Posts: 1,091 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    It would be such a waste to wipe servers before Cryptic fixes all the "tricks" in the dungeons. I can't actually think of a fight you can't break or trivialize atm.
    Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
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    failpatchfailpatch Member Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Good thing you perma banned all those beta testers from every PWE game out there for testing a bug in this game. You might have lost money once this game goes live and from any other games those testers were playing on and not "testing" for you.

    Ohhh...wait this game is live not really open beta and those testers broke your live game..bummer for you all.
This discussion has been closed.