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Official - Combat Changes - Stats

This thread is for feedback/bug reports on Stats with the new combat changes.
  • Your Total Item Level is now the cap for your ratings
  • All ratings, including power, cap at 50% effect when equal to TIL
  • Every 1000 rating below TIL is a 1% reduction. Ex. If your TIL is 40,000 and you have 38,000 Defense, you will have 48% defense from ratings.
  • Total percent of rating stats is 90%. Up to 50% can come from ratings, the rest comes from direct percentage sources such as boons, ability scores, racial bonuses, companion powers, player powers.
  • Armor Penetration and Companion Influence are no longer stats. Armor Penetration has mainly be replaced by Critical Severity. Companion Influence has been replaced by Forte in many places.
  • Forte is a new stat which will have its own feedback thread.
  • The Character window has had adjustments for the stats display, which includes now showing the percentages.
  • Base Maximum Hitpoints are now based on your TIL and are TIL * 10. Tanks get a 20% bonus to this value. Healers get a 10% bonus.
  • Base Damage is also based on TIL now and is TIL / 10. DPS get a 20% bonus to this value. Healers get a 10% bonus.
  • When scaled, only Hitpoints and Damage change. Your other stats remain as they are whether you are scaled or not.


Ratings:
  • Power – works as it did before, now capped like other ratings.
  • Defense – works as it did before
  • Critical Strike – works as it did before
  • Critical Severity – is now a rating. Most sources of Armor Penetration were swapped to be Critical Severity.
  • Critical Avoidance – this now reduces Critical Severity instead of Critical Strike.
  • Deflect – works as it did before
  • Deflect Severity – a new rating which increases how much damage is reduced when deflecting. This previously existed behind the scenes for the most part.
  • Accuracy – now reduces Deflect Severity
  • Awareness – works as it did before
  • Combat Advantage – works as it did before, now capped at the same value as other ratings
  • Incoming Healing – is now a rating, but the end result works as it did before
  • Outgoing Healing – is now a rating, but the end result works as it did before
  • Control Bonus – is now a rating, but the end result works as it did before
  • Control Resistance – is now a rating, but the end result works as it did before
  • Forte – new stat which will be covered in another thread
Utility Stats are now called Boosts but work as they did before:
  • Action Point Gain
  • Recharge Speed
  • Movement Speed
  • Stamina Regeneration
  • Magical Damage Boost
  • Physical Damage Boost
  • XP Bonus
  • Gold Bonus
  • Glory Bonus
«13456710

Comments

  • logarythmlogarythm Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 11 Arc User
    One question
    Why barbarian feat Overpenetration depends on accuracy ? Before it was straightforward, cap armor penetration + 2k to have this 10% bonus and now we have to find extra accuracy and it only gives 5%.
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,350 Arc User
    edited December 2020

    I think Critical Strike/Critical Severity is underpowered for DPS players.

    Combat Advantage gives, at full cap, 1.9x outgoing damage. All you need to do is position for CA, which is remarkably easy to do by simply positioning for CA with your companion, or getting a companion to give you free CA on the enemies, or with your teammates during group content.

    Compare that to Critical Strike/Crit Severity, which doesn't give as big of an expected damage increase and requires the player to cap two different stats: Critical Strike and Critical Severity.

    If you go out of your way to cap out both Critical Strike and Severity (which will be difficult to do in this new system, probably by intention), you get a 1.81x expected damage increase. This is theoretically equal to Accuracy, but weaker than CA & Power. Critical hits additionally require you to cap two stats, whereas CA and Power have easier trigger requirements and only asks the player to stack one stat.
    Post edited by rjc9000 on

  • jman3l#5579 jman3l Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    All of that nightspine gear we killed ourselves getting is now basically useless. I have power caps even without those bonuses procced. Those bonuses probably need to change.
  • noworries#8859 noworries Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 640 Cryptic Developer

    @noworries#8859 quick question in relation to contribution mention in relation to stats in terms of say percentage if I have 90% contribution rating on crit chance would it equate to 90% chance to crit or it's still is 50% chance to crit which is the cap from before?

    The percent is the actual percent you get. So 90% does mean you will crit 90% of your attacks on average.

    On live it is a 50% cap from ratings and there aren't really many other things that can apply it beyond ratings. On Preview it is still a 50% cap from ratings, but now there are a lot of other sources that can add to the actual percent to get it as high as 90%.
    Ok so I get that if we can push a stat past 50% for something like Critical Strike then we'll get more critical strikes or if we get crit severity to 90% our crits will hit harder but what good is pushing power past the 50%? Is there any benefit to have 90% power? What about stats like Defense is having 90% defense any better than having 50%? If not does this just create a system where some stats the goal is 50% while other stats the goal becomes 90%?

    they all do the full percentage

    Having 90% power will increase your damage by 90%
    Having 90% Defense will decrease incoming damage by 90%
    90% Combat Advantage will increase your combat advantage damage by 90%
  • noworries#8859 noworries Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 640 Cryptic Developer
    arazith07 said:

    @noworries#8859 quick question in relation to contribution mention in relation to stats in terms of say percentage if I have 90% contribution rating on crit chance would it equate to 90% chance to crit or it's still is 50% chance to crit which is the cap from before?

    The percent is the actual percent you get. So 90% does mean you will crit 90% of your attacks on average.

    On live it is a 50% cap from ratings and there aren't really many other things that can apply it beyond ratings. On Preview it is still a 50% cap from ratings, but now there are a lot of other sources that can add to the actual percent to get it as high as 90%.
    Ok so I get that if we can push a stat past 50% for something like Critical Strike then we'll get more critical strikes or if we get crit severity to 90% our crits will hit harder but what good is pushing power past the 50%? Is there any benefit to have 90% power? What about stats like Defense is having 90% defense any better than having 50%? If not does this just create a system where some stats the goal is 50% while other stats the goal becomes 90%?

    they all do the full percentage

    Having 90% power will increase your damage by 90%
    Having 90% Defense will decrease incoming damage by 90%
    90% Combat Advantage will increase your combat advantage damage by 90%
    What about something like Accuracy that is more of a counter stat. Do enemies now have more deflect severity than normal (>50%) to where we will need more Accuracy to overcome the deflect severity?
    Yes, if you were to get 90% accuracy you would fully negate a critter's deflect severity. Same with Critical Avoidance.
  • forumaccount#7167 forumaccount Member Posts: 98 Arc User
    So is the damage formula something like

    average damage = Magnitude * Damage * (1 + Power) * (1 + Crit Strike * [Crit Sev - Enemy Crit Avoid]) * (1 + Combat Advantage - Enemy Awareness) * (1 - Enemy Deflect * [Enemy Deflect Severity - Accuracy] ) * (1 - Enemy Defense) * (1 + ∑ other buffs)

    With all values beeing the percentages?

    Also what kind of stats do the critters have? Is it the same for all critters or does it vary by type?
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,220 Arc User
    rubytrue said:

    It is all kinds of buggy on preview currently; it is really hard to make heads or tails of what you are proposing. I only have one loadout (of three) that actually does any damage--the other two loadouts literally do "0" damage (same with summoned companion). Along those lines, summoned companion is giving me much more stats than an augment--and that is with an augment with a bolster that is 3x higher than the summoned companion.

    I think I could like the idea behind this, but until it is actually playable in some fashion that actually resembles live game play, it is hard to give any real judgment on the changes.

    It would really help if we had some idea where the "other" part of our stats were coming from; there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it as far as I can tell.....

    I was able to go from live to preview just fine without making any changes and was having similar kill speed as I do on live server. (were my stats optimal, of course not, that will take some time though especially now that we have a higher cap and more options to decide and test out.) Keep in mind that with the removal of armor penetration, you will see less damage overall, but enemies also have less HP than they do on the live server.

    Augments have been identified as bugged and will be fixed in a future patch.

    By 'other' part do you mean the value above the 50% from ratings? That would come from companions, racial traits, boons, equipment bonuses, food and potion buffs, etc.
  • noworries#8859 noworries Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 640 Cryptic Developer
    rubytrue said:

    It is all kinds of buggy on preview currently; it is really hard to make heads or tails of what you are proposing. I only have one loadout (of three) that actually does any damage--the other two loadouts literally do "0" damage (same with summoned companion). Along those lines, summoned companion is giving me much more stats than an augment--and that is with an augment with a bolster that is 3x higher than the summoned companion.

    I think I could like the idea behind this, but until it is actually playable in some fashion that actually resembles live game play, it is hard to give any real judgment on the changes.

    It would really help if we had some idea where the "other" part of our stats were coming from; there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it as far as I can tell.....

    If you're doing 0 damage try doing a respec. I'm going to have to force a respec on everyone to solve that issue, but doing a respec before the next update comes to preview should get your character into the proper state.
  • noworries#8859 noworries Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 640 Cryptic Developer
    arazith07 said:

    Will we be seeing more sources for Magical and Physical damage boosts in the future?

    Potentially. This update opens up a lot of flexibility for future items and their bonuses. I don't know that we will see a lot more of it with this particular update but some things have the potential to be swapped over to those bonuses.
  • arbitrarityarbitrarity Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 90 Arc User
    It does, yes. They did a great job communicating stat effects as far as things like power, combat advantage, and critical strike go, here's a screenshot
    Stat screenshot
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,220 Arc User
    hustin1 said:

    Some points.

    1. I upgraded two companions from legendary to mythic and all my percentages dropped. On top of that I lost a whole four percent Control Bonus. THIS. SHOULD. NOT. HAPPEN.

    2. You increased the item level of enchantments but cut their stats in half. So they are IN FACT less effective as before because they contribute far less to your percentages.

    3. Because your percentages are based on your total item level, it incentivizes you to NOT upgrade as increasing your total item level by definition causes your percentages to drop. It not only penalizes you for upgrading, it's counterintuitive.

    On point 3, increasing your total item level directly increases your base HP and damage. Someone with 25k iL will do half the damage and have about half the HP as someone with 50k iL.
  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,318 Arc User
    edited December 2020

    > @noworries#8859 said:

    > The percent is the actual percent you get. So 90% does mean you will crit 90% of your attacks on average.

    >

    > On live it is a 50% cap from ratings and there aren't really many other things that can apply it beyond ratings. On Preview it is still a 50% cap from ratings, but now there are a lot of other sources that can add to the actual percent to get it as high as 90%.



    That certainly makes things more interesting...

    Not for all stats. Insignia of Mastery and the Sphere of Black Ice took major nerfs, so those avenues of boosting Control Bonus are mainly cut off. That leaves the Valindra set and that's it. Expect that to be nerfed in 3...2...1...

    Devs, it's disingenuous to say that we can push a stat to 90% if you deny us any means of chasing that stat. Why can't we boost Control Bonus in any meaningful way?
    Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X
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    Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
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  • violencebf22violencebf22 Member Posts: 41 Arc User
    Please reconsider the balance of the guild fortress. we went to 48k+ characters and barely killed 1 big heroic Giants. it now literally buries all the young guilds that need to be lvlup. shards from big heroic. not get if from not pumped guilds if not full party i.e. 4-7 dd 1-2 heals and 1-2 tanks. taking into account what a huge amount is needed to pump the guild. there is not always time to get ready. those. every day 1-2 parties at different times do not farm. Weaker twins cannot be farmed. we have currently trained our guild with 15 people until 20 3.5 years and only recently finished ... every day gathering for farming with the whole guild... but what we got on the test .. please reconsider the balance in the guild fortress


  • tardbathtardbath Member Posts: 80 Arc User
    What about mitigation and "less damage taken" from other sources beside DEF, let's say iron warrior on Vanguard.
    We will be able to have let's say 80%dr from gear and we will get the extra 20%mitigation from iron warrior as it is right now ?
  • drago#9606 drago Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    I just wanted to highlight a video from Aragon on his first stab and creating a maxed out DPS build on preview:

    The reason for highlighting it is the sheer number of changes he had to make to get close to the equivalent of where he was before (capped offensive stats). It could be there are other ways to achieve a similar result with fewer changes, but the fact he had to swap out most enchantments, runestones, insignias, artefacts, companion bonuses, weapon/armor modifications indicates the amount of change involved.

    This mainly seems to be because it's much harder to cap multiple stats than previously, which may not be a bad thing, but it does necessitate a move away from many of the items and bonuses used today.

    EDIT: I actually think the new system could be better in the long run, because it could make more different options viable depending on what players want to focus on. But I do think there needs to be more thought given to the transition between old to new. In order to make variety work for existing players, there needs to be a path for equivalent exchange of quite a few different items, not just bondings.

    Post edited by drago#9606 on
  • tamtoucantamtoucan Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 37 Arc User
    Apologies if this has been covered, but coming to this thread at this point it's rather a lot to read. I am trying to work out how the Weapon Artifact enhancement affects things. My HR on preview had 48.3% Defense from rating, and 0.3% from "other".

    If I then set the offhand weapon enhancement to give me +2k defense BOTH values changed. The Defense value was +2k which put me over TIL and so the 48.3% went to 50% and was highlighted in red, but why did "other" go to 1%? Surely the +2k should affect only one source?

    I would also have thought that if anything is to be classed as "other" then the enhancement "built in" to a weapon would be it.

    Finally, am I missing something, but given the new system say my toon finds new head gear which is 1000 higher item level (exaggerating), but the same Defense as my current. That would mean my TIL would increase, but since my Defense was the same the rating % would decrease? That makes no sense. I lose defense even though I have basically the same armour.

    Cheers.
  • brewaldbrewald Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 209 Arc User
    Hi @noworries#8859

    Due to the new cap of Power stat all gears with power increase in fight become useless (at least T3 Hunt gear from Avernus).
    Will you do some modifications on this type of elements?

    Thanks for your feedback
    Brewald - GWF 18.3k
    Eleonore - CW Mof Renegade 17.5k
    Harlgard le Vieux - OP Prot 18.3k
    Valrik - DC AC 18.2k
    Furiela - SW Temp 18.1k
  • eladonwarps#6040 eladonwarps Member Posts: 97 Arc User
    > @hustin1 said:
    > Then we have a deficit in flexibility, e.g. Control Bonus (no, I'll never let that one go).
    >
    > If not all items have Combined Rating, then using an item that does not provide Combined Rating by definition will lower the percentage effectiveness of stats that the particular item doesn't upgrade. So not upgrading a stat is an effective *downgrade* of that stat's effectiveness because its percentage of an increasing whole will decrease.

    I feel the same about Outgoing Healing as you do about Control. Getting anything to give raw OH has been nightmarish on live and I don't see it getting any better. So I did what everyone else suggested and worked on Crit then Power. Now that I'm so over cap on Crit, it's really hard to rework, and then to find it so meaningless is disheartening.
    Call me El, she/her only. Currently Professions-only until the next combat change fixes this mess.
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,220 Arc User

    ok so, having been on preview and played about. i've maxed mount bolster. i've maxed companion bolster in every category. i've upgraded every potentially useful companion to mythic. i've ditched radiants and empowereds. i've shuffled companion gear. i've reselected companion slottables, mount slottable, mount power, i've switched gear, i've changed weapon modifications, enchants are now gigantics in offence, azures in defence. profane in def slot in comp gear, recondites in off slots. all enchants/runestones r15's.

    i've done everything i can to move away from the +power meta and towards just... trying to cap stats.

    i'm now 43k ilvl.

    i'm still overcap on power. the only other stat i have anywhere *near* cap is crit severity. i can't even get defence to 70% ( it's sitting at 61% i HAMSTER you not ). every other stat is way undercap, usually in the 40% to 50% range.

    on live, my toon is 33k ilvl, i'm either capped, or overcap on everything except crit avoidance, deflect, and awareness.

    changes that i can't even afford to replicate or approach replicating, when this hits live... don't even get me anywhere *near* back to where i am on live at the moment.

    this had better be a goddamn joke.

    All critters have been rebalanced for where player stats will be. The new setup isn't one where players will cap all or even most of the stats. It isn't about capping all of the stats as much as choosing the stats you're going to focus on as the ones you push higher.

    For DPS classes power is granted by Forte which gives it a big boost in helping it cap out.
    The thing is, for tanks you need to cap almost every stat to be remotely effective in end game content. I also have one tank build specific for grinding pve and other solo content. Now that build will be worthless, especially with a 20% damage penalty instead of only 10% like now.
    The caps on live are 50%. It's pretty easy to have 50% in all defensive stats still. Now you can get one or two to 90% while maintaining the others around 50%.
  • jman3l#5579 jman3l Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    @noworries#8859 any idea on what bone devils ribcage and helm of the skyblazer will give in terms of bonus? Will those equip bonuses go to the 40% rating (non IL rating?) I would suggest not making all of them % power. Maybe make bone devils 12.5% power fully stacked, helm of skyblazer 10% CA, lightguard boots 7.5% accuracy or something like that. Otherwise it will be quite difficult to balance with all of these items equipped.
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,462 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    There is some issue with item tooltips.

    There are items with various equip bonuses that add percent to the stat rating (to the 50%), and there are others that give percent to the stat (other sources) or should? or shouldn't? don't know.

    It's not clear enough which is which. And will be a major confusion on which item is worthless and which worth more.

    Maybe defining some keywords for each case, like "rating" and "secondary source" and writing it them in bold, or something.

    Quick example, there is no way for a player who doesn't know before hand to differentiate the sources:

    1.
    -------
    2.
    -------
    3.
    ---------
    4.
  • noworries#8859 noworries Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 640 Cryptic Developer
    nisckis said:

    I'm not sure if this is the correct thread for a question about stats, what are the stats or percentage that the enemies have?

    With the previous stats/counterstats we got a table which displayed the stats the enemies had depending on the zones/levels/dungeons

    Now that enemy levels have disappeared because now scaling is stable, how do we know the stats we need to counter and protect from the enemy ones?

    Thanks a lot in advance.

    On live your rating, for example Critical Strike, was based on the critter's rating, in that case Critical Avoidance. Your Critical Strike percent was based on that comparison, every 1000 above the opponents Critical Avoidance was a 1% chance to Crit with a maximum of 50%.

    On Preview your comparison is with your total item level. If your Critical Strike is >= your Total Item Level, then you have a 50% chance to crit, which is the maximum from ratings. That is 1% lower for every 1000 your rating is below your Total Item Level.

    In addition to that, you can now get up to a total of 90% when including other sources outside of ratings.

    That 90% is how often you crit. All of those percentages are what you will do in combat. You don't need any information from the critter anymore as it is all based on your total item level and is all there on your character sheet at all times.


    Different zones have different item levels for critters which gives them more HP and Damage (just as it does for you). But the zones have no impact on your ratings at all.
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,462 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    nisckis said:

    nisckis said:

    I'm not sure if this is the correct thread for a question about stats, what are the stats or percentage that the enemies have?

    With the previous stats/counterstats we got a table which displayed the stats the enemies had depending on the zones/levels/dungeons

    Now that enemy levels have disappeared because now scaling is stable, how do we know the stats we need to counter and protect from the enemy ones?

    Thanks a lot in advance.

    On live your rating, for example Critical Strike, was based on the critter's rating, in that case Critical Avoidance. Your Critical Strike percent was based on that comparison, every 1000 above the opponents Critical Avoidance was a 1% chance to Crit with a maximum of 50%.

    On Preview your comparison is with your total item level. If your Critical Strike is >= your Total Item Level, then you have a 50% chance to crit, which is the maximum from ratings. That is 1% lower for every 1000 your rating is below your Total Item Level.

    In addition to that, you can now get up to a total of 90% when including other sources outside of ratings.

    That 90% is how often you crit. All of those percentages are what you will do in combat. You don't need any information from the critter anymore as it is all based on your total item level and is all there on your character sheet at all times.


    Different zones have different item levels for critters which gives them more HP and Damage (just as it does for you). But the zones have no impact on your ratings at all.
    Thanks a lot for the clarification, it clarifies how normal stats work.

    What happens with stats that have a counter stat?, like
    - Critical Severity and Critical Avoidance.
    - Accuracy and Deflect Severity.
    - Combat Advantage and Awareness.

    how much do they have? from the preview test logs (ACT) it looks like enemies have around 50% on them.
    I would like a clarification here too. Assuming the interaction works on the percent level and not stats (so over-capping will not do a thing), so lets say I have 90% Combat Advantage and my target has 90% awareness, I will get 0 bonus damage on CA.

    With these are the cross interactions:

    Enemy deflect severity - My Accuracy = % Reduction on deflect.
    My Combat Advantage - Their Awareness = % Damage bonus on CA
    My Critical Severity% - Critical Avoidance = % Damage bonus on crit

    My Deflect Severity - Their Accuracy = .....
    My awarness...
    My critical Avoidance

    Do the mobs have Awareness, Critical Avoidance, Accuracy? Or it all became relevant only to PvP interactions?

    Edit - Also safe to assume all mobs have 50% defense?
    Post edited by micky1p00 on
  • noworries#8859 noworries Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 640 Cryptic Developer
    micky1p00 said:

    There is some issue with item tooltips.

    There are items with various equip bonuses that add percent to the stat rating (to the 50%), and there are others that give percent to the stat (other sources) or should? or shouldn't? don't know.

    It's not clear enough which is which. And will be a major confusion on which item is worthless and which worth more.

    Maybe defining some keywords for each case, like "rating" and "secondary source" and writing it them in bold, or something.

    Quick example, there is no way for a player who doesn't know before hand to differentiate the sources:

    1.
    -------
    2.
    -------
    3.
    ---------
    4.

    The goal when everything has been found and updated is that if it says a % such as +3% then it is always to the total and if it says a larger non percent such as 3500 then it goes to rating. When everything is fixed up nothing should increase the rating value by a percent, only the total by a percent.

    But there are still items out there we need to swap over. And always feel free to report any that don't line up with that.
  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,118 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    If understand that mobs only have
    deflect (50) that we cant counter
    deflect severity (90) that we counter with accuracy
    critical chance (50) that we cant counter
    critical severity (90) that we counter with awareness

    or I am mistaken?
    pvp is another world tho
    Lescar PvE Wizard - Sir Garic PvE Paladin
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  • admiralwarlord#3792 admiralwarlord Member Posts: 490 Arc User
    Another very important question is about the weapons bonuses, can you tell us if there will be changes? Milestone weapons are now completely unbalanced compared to others that give bonus damage. Suggestion +10% for Celestial, 7.5% for Lion and 5% or even 7.5% for Blessed. This would make the last content attractive to those who already have lion weapons and would still make blessed ones search for Lion's weapons, as they don't have a cd in their bonus.
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