I think Critical Strike/Critical Severity is underpowered for DPS players.
Combat Advantage gives, at full cap, 1.9x outgoing damage. All you need to do is position for CA, which is remarkably easy to do by simply positioning for CA with your companion, or getting a companion to give you free CA on the enemies, or with your teammates during group content.
Compare that to Critical Strike/Crit Severity, which doesn't give as big of an expected damage increase and requires the player to cap two different stats: Critical Strike and Critical Severity.
If you go out of your way to cap out both Critical Strike and Severity (which will be difficult to do in this new system, probably by intention), you get a 1.81x expected damage increase. This is theoretically equal to Accuracy, but weaker than CA & Power. Critical hits additionally require you to cap two stats, whereas CA and Power have easier trigger requirements and only asks the player to stack one stat.
What about an idea. Severity can be understood as the strength of an action, "strength of the power". Therefore, both the critical hit and the deflect could in principle be measured by the Severity as one parameter. This can help balance things out and give you the flexibility to switch between stats (as Pally Tank and Heal can switch between loads to get more Deflect or Crit as needed, this should work for Barb and Fighter as well, for virtually any class) - no need to invest in four attributes (Crit, Crit Sev, Deflect, Deflect Sev), just in three (Severity, Crit, Deflect). And CA itself could be understood as Severity (strenght of the power as said before), but of course to get critical hit or deflect we need "training" (get some stats) to get CA we "only" need to position properly (CA is just binary - 0 or 1 - switch). Then we finally have statistics like Crit, Deflect, and Severity, which works for CA "switch" as well (we can think of it as stability/balance/persistence - as it is called in some games - we are behind enemy we are able to strike with higher strength, we are trained in critical strike - we are able to strike with higher strength, we are trained in deflection - we are able to strike with higher strength). We can even consider to use the same parameter to (out and in) healing - but it can be too much to handle and do not mess with those stats .
BTW, maybe it would be better to get the CA if we rally behind the enemy (the enemy is not facing us). This can give you interesting situational behavior, for example the tank doesn't get CA when holding aggro but if someone is stealing aggro the enemy turn his back to the tank and the next tank hit is from CA (that could mean Severity, as stated before, which will be probably capped anyway because of Deflect for example!) multiplied by the tank's aggro multiplier which should bring back aggro to the tank. To keep aggro without CA, tanks will likely need to get "the right" skill's strength (higher aggro multiplier, tuned magnitude - preferred, etc, but it still needs to be done). But the side effect of correct implementation may be that the problem of soloing content is resolved (possibility to have higher power magnitudes, getting situational boost from companion CA - if "tanking" companions will work properly and will try to position themself as needed). This could work for healers as well.
And yes, all the propositions probably requires to rebalance stats redistribution (an overall amount of stats available to redistribute). But why not? It is done right now anyway. These are just suggestions. Mixing them can give you an appropriate solution because switching to just one Severity for all other stats can now be hard to manage in the current state of the game engine.
*No player is going to be trying to keep all 15 ratings at a very high value, they will focus on a few* but the tank needs all the stats to survive and to keep aggro. now if you do not have 120-140k strength and 100-120k combat advantage, you will not keep aggro from a strong party. does this mean that the agro system will be changed? and it will be easier for tanks? simply increasing the defensive stat to the maximum at the expense of the attackers will not help keep the aggro for a long time. all the more, the healers have become weaker, and there is no way to keep everything at an average level.
A tank does not need all of their defense stats capped in this system to survive. And tanks have a modifier to their threat gain where their damage counts as more than the same amount on a DPS, meaning they don't need to stand toe to toe with a DPS to hold threat, they also have taunts as well.
If tanks holding threat became an issue there are threat modifiers we can adjust.
Therefore, thinking only about generating threats poses a problem for non Damage Dealers. Think about the fact that tanks actually outperform DPSes to keep aggro, but their "damage" to the enemy is hidden behind the thread generation multiplier. Tanks (and healers) must have high enough stats and power magnitudes to be able to play solo without any problems. To do this, their power should be exposed to direct ("visible") DPS as much as possible. The proposition with CA from above can help with this - the DPS burst is situational.
So I done some testing on my Paladin Oathkeeper. From what I could ascertain, Healers don't gain any benefit to their Healing powers from any +% Power and Critical severity buffs, like boons, passive companions, food etc. The only thing to give any benefit is from the actual rating, which is capped to 50%. I tested with buffs from Boons, Baby Deepcrow, Alpha Compy, Wild Storm Elixer and Superior Flask of Potency.
As well as that I went and tested the Critical Chance on healing and it also appeared to be capped at 50%. I done a 17 min long test with nearly 400 casts and got 50%, when my character sheet displayed 64%, from the Rating and other buffs, like the boons, Black dragon Ioun and Quickling.
So I ask, is this intentional, to limit Healers to 50% Power, Critical Strike Chance and Critical Severity?
Have made tests on my warlock and got the same results. No cap on critical severity though, only it gets halved event the vorpal enchant does half bonus. It would bekind to have this clarified, since character sheet says that power increases healing and no notice of a severity being halved.
srr for my englich, so, wat is enemy raitings ? i mean how many deflect severity have enemy, lets take like exzample HALASTER, i realy need to know, or he have +90% deflect severity? so i need 90 % accuracy do full dmg, or HALASTER have 75% heflect severity, and i can be on 75% Acc, and top up my combat advantage, wich i need as dps, still at this moment i have about 74% Acurasy, 82% CA in combat, so how i supose to know wat is beter for me ?
enemy deflect severity and critical severity are 90%, defense, deflect chance and critical chance are 50%
@noworries#8859 I suggest adding a higher base deflect severity for tanks, as this is a very hard stat to increase in the new system. The other defensive stats are all single stats that grant a lot of “effective hit points”, deflect/deflect severity takes a lot more effort to get to the same level of effective hit points. Increased base deflect severity would counter a small part of this issue.
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damnaciousMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 354Arc User
I suggest adding a higher base deflect severity for tanks, as this is a very hard stat to increase in the new system. The other defensive stats are all single stats that grant a lot of “effective hit points”, deflect/deflect severity takes a lot more effort to get to the same level of effective hit points. Increased base deflect severity would counter a small part of this issue.
Yes. It would need to be +50% base bonus for tanks in order to ensure Tanks aren't completely nerfed by these changes, to the order of potentially millions of Effective Hit Points (EHP), especially given the secret, never-announced nerf to both the Shift (Guard) and Tab (Dig In) mechanics, where Fighters have been nerfed down to 40% and 60% from 50% and 75% respectively.
Perhaps you might want to explain why that particular secret nerf was made @noworries#8859?
For about a year, by hook or crook, donation and spray, I collected 15 charms. On the server for testing, I found out that everything is in vain, runes and magic stones will have to be completely changed, I am naked and barefoot bankrupt. Part of this bankruptcy (which suddenly befell many players) can be avoided by increasing the Power bar, for example, to 150%. Still as option 90% but from any sources, not dividing on 50% and 40 % from other sources.
For about a year, by hook or crook, donation and spray, I collected 15 charms. On the server for testing, I found out that everything is in vain, runes and magic stones will have to be completely changed, I am naked and barefoot bankrupt. Part of this bankruptcy (which suddenly befell many players) can be avoided by increasing the Power bar, for example, to 150%. Still as option 90% but from any sources, not dividing on 50% and 40 % from other sources.
They are going to have an exchange so you don't have to worry about going "bankrupt." Besides, they really can't take power any higher than 90%; it would completely break the game. You need to stop thinking about power in the way you are used to thinking about power. For all intents and purposes, they took "Power" as you understood it, out of the game (that isn't a bad thing, btw). Power in the new combat system functions the same way that Armor Penetration does in the current system....
Zariel and Halaster (and maybe other NPCs) seem to have 10000 (or 10%) leftover armor pen. They are ignoring exactly 10% of the DR% of defense.... Seems to be another leftover piece of armor pen. Please remove before I lose my marbles
In the example below with 80% defense, damage is actually mitigated by 70% (x0.3)
[Combat (Self)]Critical Hit! Halaster deals 344574 (1142297) Arcane Damage to you with Arcane Blast
Hello, I'm doing it through google translator, so forgive me for any concordance errors.
I would like to make a suggestion regarding awareness, instead of simply placing additional damage on the boss, why not add progressive damage to the current target of the boss, adding X of extra damage, every Y second in combat with a limit of up to Z times per. similar to the damage scheduling that the Halaster skill applies so that with slightly less damage added, think of it this way, if the tank is getting the Boss’s attention all the time, this makes the Boss focused on ending this target giving him the advantage of progressive combat. Hypothetical example: every 5 seconds in combat the target the boss is focused on takes 20% more damage and can stack up to 5 times. This effect is removed if the boss changes targets for more than 30 seconds. Understand that I'm not a mathematician, I'm just exemplifying how it can work in theory.
This leaves the window for another relationship in the new system which is the high HP of DPS and Healer. 10x TIL in HP for DPS and Healer seems to me a very high value, I think it would be more consistent for these roles to have less base HP, maybe 5x TIL. this can have a direct impact on the awareness system that I suggested above. as it allows tanks to benefit better from their status and their base HP, since Dungoen’s mechanics will do more damage to it based on combat time, while DPS and Healer don’t need as much HP to survive the mechanics since they are not affected by the Boss's combat advantage, unless the tank loses aggro at some point. I think this makes the discrepancy between the tank's HP and DPS / Healer bigger so that the extra HP choices for these enchants and mounts roles are taken into account according to combat type.
This is a general opinion question to both players and developers...
For players who are not on preview testing and prepping for day one on Live release. What do you suggest they do when they come in and find they are over capped on stats?
Should they shuffle enchants? In this case above, pulling every enchant that grants critical severity doesn't cut it. This character only has 3 rank 9 that grants a total of 405.
Should they run "as is" and avoid adding anything that would increase the critical severity until their item level is above 29K?
Should they shop for new gear and pitch the gear with critical severity on it?
I think this topic will heat up greatly upon release, as the majority of the players don't get on forums, fewer yet test on preview.
This is a general opinion question to both players and developers...
For players who are not on preview testing and prepping for day one on Live release. What do you suggest they do when they come in and find they are over capped on stats?
Should they shuffle enchants? In this case above, pulling every enchant that grants critical severity doesn't cut it. This character only has 3 rank 9 that grants a total of 405.
Should they run "as is" and avoid adding anything that would increase the critical severity until their item level is above 29K?
Should they shop for new gear and pitch the gear with critical severity on it?
I think this topic will heat up greatly upon release, as the majority of the players don't get on forums, fewer yet test on preview.
I think, without looking at the player's gear and what not, that the best way to not waste stats, is to find alternate gear. Most players will find that their power and/or critical severity will be over capped. A lot of rearranging of gear, enchants, insignias will be fairly common. But when someone is mid item level like the above, my best advice would be to increase item level. If someone were on the higher end, close to 50k, then gear arranging would be the only remedy.
If Deflection chance of enemies is always 50%, then accuracy will multiply damage by 145% at 90% accuracy If Combat Advantage of 90% hits half the time then it will multiply damage by 145% If Critical severity and Critical chance are both 90% then together they will multiply damage by 181% If Power is at 90%, it will multiply damage by 190%
All of these are mitigated by defense stats, i'm just estimating raw values. To me it looks like power is worth twice as much as the others, which are all close enough that it doesn't particularly matter what you prioritize, as long as you put some into accuracy.
If Deflection chance of enemies is always 50%, then accuracy will multiply damage by 145% at 90% accuracy If Combat Advantage of 90% hits half the time then it will multiply damage by 145% If Critical severity and Critical chance are both 90% then together they will multiply damage by 181% If Power is at 90%, it will multiply damage by 190%
All of these are mitigated by defense stats, i'm just estimating raw values. To me it looks like power is worth twice as much as the others, which are all close enough that it doesn't particularly matter what you prioritize, as long as you put some into accuracy.
I may be mistaken, but I was under the impression that mobs always deflected at a 100% chance (with a 90% deflect severity), and that Accuracy was used to determine how much of the deflection severity you countered, so at 90% accuracy they deflected 100% of your damage at 0% severity (essentially negating the deflection).
This makes accuracy the most important stat to cap.
Suppose a)100 base damage with 90% power and 50% accuracy vs b)100 base damage with 50% power and 90% accuracy:
a)100+90 from power=190; 50% accuracy would mean critters mitigate 40% of that damage resulting in total damage of 190*.6= 114 total damage.
b)100+50 from power=150; 90% accuracy would mean critters mitigate 0% of that damage resulting in total damage of 150*1.0= 150 total damage.
Lets see what happens at 75% for both power and accuracy...
100+75 from power=175; 75% accuracy would mean critters mitigate 15% of that damage resulting in total damage of 175*.85= 148.75 total damage.
I'm guessing 80% power and 80% accuracy is probably the sweet spot...(or thereabouts)
100+80 from power=180; 80% accuracy would mean critters mitigate 10% of that damage resulting in total damage of 180*.9= 162 total damage.
Going for that 80/80 balance sweet spot would allow you to put more points into your conditional offensive stat (combat advantage) or your dependent offensive stats (Crit and Crit Severity).
(I know people won't do that; they will cap both Power and Accuracy and one other Offensive Stat (should be Combat Advantage, especially if you do a lot of group content) and pray that someone is using a Holy Avenger that kicks in to help cut back some damage while their Shadowclad builds up stacks.)
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arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
If Deflection chance of enemies is always 50%, then accuracy will multiply damage by 145% at 90% accuracy If Combat Advantage of 90% hits half the time then it will multiply damage by 145% If Critical severity and Critical chance are both 90% then together they will multiply damage by 181% If Power is at 90%, it will multiply damage by 190%
All of these are mitigated by defense stats, i'm just estimating raw values. To me it looks like power is worth twice as much as the others, which are all close enough that it doesn't particularly matter what you prioritize, as long as you put some into accuracy.
I may be mistaken, but I was under the impression that mobs always deflected at a 100% chance (with a 90% deflect severity), and that Accuracy was used to determine how much of the deflection severity you countered, so at 90% accuracy they deflected 100% of your damage at 0% severity (essentially negating the deflection).
Another question on Deflection. If Deflection chance of enemies is always 50%, then accuracy will multiply damage by 145% at 90% accuracy If Combat Advantage of 90% hits half the time then it will multiply damage by 145% If Critical severity and Critical chance are both 90% then together they will multiply damage by 181% If Power is at 90%, it will multiply damage by 190%
All of these are mitigated by defense stats, i'm just estimating raw values. To me it looks like power is worth twice as much as the others, which are all close enough that it doesn't particularly matter what you prioritize, as long as you put some into accuracy.
The thing is that raising Power from 0 to 10% (that is 110/100 of previous state) has bigger impact than from 80% to 90% (190/180 of previous state). The same goes for other stats. In the end, you are in a position where raising any other stat from 50% to 60% has a bigger impact than raising power from 80% to 90%.
So yes, you are technically right, but no, it is not an universally valid statement.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
If Combat Advantage of 90% hits half the time then it will multiply damage by 145%
If you want to average damage to the number of hits, but this is not as simple, first, players have more CA than 50%, two, players who pay attention move to have CA before the main rotation. Meaning for example, if you have a daily in a debuff window, you make sure that you have CA and not waste it. CA is not chance stat, so it can be forcibly skewed toward higher damage multiplier as looked of the total damage. But lower as percent of the total hits, since the hits are not equal in magnitude.
All of these are mitigated by defense stats, i'm just estimating raw values. To me it looks like power is worth twice as much as the others, which are all close enough that it doesn't particularly matter what you prioritize, as long as you put some into accuracy.
Like was mentioned before by rikitaki
Increasing Power from 85% to 90% is 2.7% damage increase Increasing Accuracy from 45% to 50% is 3.2% damage increase
We need more ways to acquire Forte & Accuracy for classes that don't have Accuracy at Forte are at disadvantage
Also as we increase our item level more and more our Forte Gets Lower, so we need Forte the new stat to be added to Gear because right now Forte cannot be capped to 50%
If Combat Advantage of 90% hits half the time then it will multiply damage by 145%
If you want to average damage to the number of hits, but this is not as simple, first, players have more CA than 50%, two, players who pay attention move to have CA before the main rotation. Meaning for example, if you have a daily in a debuff window, you make sure that you have CA and not waste it. CA is not chance stat, so it can be forcibly skewed toward higher damage multiplier as looked of the total damage. But lower as percent of the total hits, since the hits are not equal in magnitude.
All of these are mitigated by defense stats, i'm just estimating raw values. To me it looks like power is worth twice as much as the others, which are all close enough that it doesn't particularly matter what you prioritize, as long as you put some into accuracy.
Like was mentioned before by rikitaki
Increasing Power from 85% to 90% is 2.7% damage increase Increasing Accuracy from 45% to 50% is 3.2% damage increase
Thankyou for the clarification. I did some bad math and did not describe my numbers well.
I'm getting the following data for PvE.
Raising Power from 0 to 90% multiplies your damage by a factor of 1.90 Raising Accuracy from 0 to 90% multiplies your damage by a factor of 1.81 Raising Combat Advantage from 0 to 90% multiplies your damage by a factor of 1.45 (if you get CA half of the time) Raising CritSeverity plus CritChance from 0 to 90% multiplies your damage by a factor of 1.81
The independent factor for Crit Severity & Crit Chance is 1.345 each (If you raise them from 0 to 90%)
NOTES: Accuracy gives greater value toward 0%, and lower value as you approach 90% Critical% & Severity gives poor value if either are low, and better value as they both approach 90%
In my opinion, this data suggests 2 distinct build options for DPS:
1) Low Stat or Companion DPS Maximize Power & Accuracy Put remaining points into Combat Advantage Ignore Crit Severity and Crit chance
This is the best build if you have low stat totals, or if you choose to run an active companion and can't maximize Critical. With this setup, players have more flexibility and may be able run companion features instead of pure stat boosts. These players will be free to use any weapon enchantment except Vorpal.
2) High Stat or augment DPS build Maximize Power & Accuracy Maximize Critical Severity Critical Strike (as long as you can get them from 75% to 90% range) Ignore Combat Advantage stat increases
This setup de-emphasizes Combat Advantage and makes Vorpal the best weapon enchantment choice. Gaining combat advantage will still help but is no longer essential. With this setup, a player will probably run an augment, and will be free to select any mount insignia power choices... which can help with survivability. For players in the 50,000 IL range, it may actually be possible to run an active companion with this Crit build, but, depending on paragon and location, may decrease total damage output by doing so.
@zimxero 3) Economy class cheapskate Don't maximize anything, keep Power and CA at the same level, accu 10 % behind, ignore crit severity (it will pile up anyway) - just put something to critical (to trigger additional effects.)
Either way, you kind of do not have much of a choice - you work with what forte dictates you. Companion choices are rather limited, so the "maximize this or that" sometimes is not even in the options.
First, accuracy is a deflection counter, so it is a mitigation, then, when you have 0% accuracy this multiplies your damage by a factor 0.1 and when you have 90% accuracy this multiplies your damage by a factor 1.
Second, i dont know why you say "if you get CA half of the time", in a boss fight you have CA almost 100% of time.
> Overall, i like the offensive stats. The one change I would make is to add 10% critical severity as a base, and have it be invisible.
> This would be enough to make the critical path worth taking for the masses. The way it is now, if low-stat players invest in critical builds, they are gonna be at a severe disadvantage (no pun intended). It is wasteful to invest stats into critical now, unless we max it, max power, and max accuracy.
>
> 10% automatic baseline critical severity + 50% from stats + 40% from boosts + 20% from vorpal = 120% max critical severity.
>
> With 90% critical chance, damage would be boosted by a factor of 2.08 with vorpal, 1.90 without vorpal.
>
> The square root of 1.90 is 1.378, which puts the 2 critical stats closer to the other offensive stats in value.
But thei say crit severity caped at 90% so with vorpal you can over cap or not?
crit severity cap is 90%, but with vorpal you get 110% crit severity only for at-will, encounter and daily
> @khaozhunter said: > crit severity cap is 90%, but with vorpal you get 110% crit severity only for at-will, encounter and daily
But if I reduse my crit severity chanse by 15% from total, or my vorpal compensate my 15% crit severity, and like example I put in my comp slot samething with 3.8 combat advantage, so or I do more dmg if I lose like 3.8 base crit sev but increase combat advantage? Then I use vorpal
And yea after yesterday pach we don't have anymore 10 crit severity from off hand now it's just 500 total cs
The reworked mastercraft armor/rings should have their stats looked at. The Avernus rings gives +5 or more % to ratings, while the masterwork gear gives 1000 (rings) or 1500 (armor). Adjusting these values would make the masterworkers happy, and players would have even more alternatives for their stat balancing.
A lot of feedback has been given on the cap of defense being much more significant that other stats. Where Power maxed out almost doubles the damage you do, 90% defense brings damage down to 1/10th of what it would do.
This creates some extra imbalances for tanks/non tanks as damage high enough to threaten a tank is pretty devastating to a non-tank with 40-50% defense.
Currently on preview dungeons have critters with a 10% armor pen to make the content a bit harder and to also lessen the divide between tanks and non-tanks. If a dps has 50% defense and a tank 90%, without that armor pen a dps takes 5x the damage of a tank, with that armor pen they take 3x.
One of the proposals has been to simply change defense to a cap of 45%. This would mean that capping the rating would =25%, and there would be a total of 45% from all sources. Being 1000 below TIL would reduce defense by 0.5% instead of 1%, and other sources of defense would have their amount cut in half.
This does give Defense a slightly different setup than other stats on the character sheet.
Wanted to hear thoughts from players before going forward with that kind of change. Note: we would lower dungeon boss damages if we made this change as they've been pushed much higher due to the current amount of defense.
That suggestion puts tanks back to being not needed. You already nerfed our stamina while most dps can sprint/dodge to negate more than our guard, now you propose to make them just as physically tanky while making tanks still do no damage.
@noworries#8859 Topic of Defense: A Tanks role is to absorb the damage of all enemies! If other roles are being hit (by single target attacks), that is the fault of the Tank. I would prefer there to be this gap between a tank and non-tank role, as it makes it actually necessary to run with a tank in your party, outside of content with specific tank mechanics (Zariel, ToMM etc).
All the older content is currently (on the live server) very easily completed with just a group of Dps and sometimes a healer, but this is only due to the fact that Dps currently have their Defense capped with no small amount of Hp (due to Zariel trial mechanics). So the way it currently stands with defense capped at 90%, it's pretty costly for a non-tank role to cap defense (due to Forte), and thus the ability for a Tank to be able to absorb a lot more damage than a non-tank would (even with you secretly reducing our shields to only 40% of our max Hp).
However the case still stands, that yes, it can be pretty devastating for a non-tank to be hit by area attacks and unavoidable attacks without them having this 90% defense. So in this something needs to be done.
I suggest, instead of reducing the defense cap to 45%, leave it how it is, but reduce the unavoidable attacks damage values to be more inline with the expected value of defense non-tanks should have. I believe 50% isn't too hard to get, but still somewhat of a challenge. If the worry is that Dps may go above this 50% just to either become more survivable and not need a healer or tank, then this should be balanced with having a negative impact on their Dps. But leaving this option is somewhat of a good thing as it leads to diversity within the game and giving players a bit more freedom in their build choices, rather than hard capping it, which you could, at 50% for a non tank.
Ultimately, having the damage values on the attacks directed at the aggravator being high enough to, maybe not one shot, but be pretty unforgiving, allows for a lot more respect of the tanks, as they would need to go first to take the Aggro. As it should be.
Comments
What about an idea.
Severity can be understood as the strength of an action, "strength of the power". Therefore, both the critical hit and the deflect could in principle be measured by the Severity as one parameter. This can help balance things out and give you the flexibility to switch between stats (as Pally Tank and Heal can switch between loads to get more Deflect or Crit as needed, this should work for Barb and Fighter as well, for virtually any class) - no need to invest in four attributes (Crit, Crit Sev, Deflect, Deflect Sev), just in three (Severity, Crit, Deflect).
And CA itself could be understood as Severity (strenght of the power as said before), but of course to get critical hit or deflect we need "training" (get some stats) to get CA we "only" need to position properly (CA is just binary - 0 or 1 - switch). Then we finally have statistics like Crit, Deflect, and Severity, which works for CA "switch" as well (we can think of it as stability/balance/persistence - as it is called in some games - we are behind enemy we are able to strike with higher strength, we are trained in critical strike - we are able to strike with higher strength, we are trained in deflection - we are able to strike with higher strength).
We can even consider to use the same parameter to (out and in) healing - but it can be too much to handle and do not mess with those stats
BTW, maybe it would be better to get the CA if we rally behind the enemy (the enemy is not facing us). This can give you interesting situational behavior, for example the tank doesn't get CA when holding aggro but if someone is stealing aggro the enemy turn his back to the tank and the next tank hit is from CA (that could mean Severity, as stated before, which will be probably capped anyway because of Deflect for example!) multiplied by the tank's aggro multiplier which should bring back aggro to the tank. To keep aggro without CA, tanks will likely need to get "the right" skill's strength (higher aggro multiplier, tuned magnitude - preferred, etc, but it still needs to be done). But the side effect of correct implementation may be that the problem of soloing content is resolved (possibility to have higher power magnitudes, getting situational boost from companion CA - if "tanking" companions will work properly and will try to position themself as needed). This could work for healers as well.
And yes, all the propositions probably requires to rebalance stats redistribution (an overall amount of stats available to redistribute). But why not? It is done right now anyway.
These are just suggestions. Mixing them can give you an appropriate solution because switching to just one Severity for all other stats can now be hard to manage in the current state of the game engine.
Therefore, thinking only about generating threats poses a problem for non Damage Dealers. Think about the fact that tanks actually outperform DPSes to keep aggro, but their "damage" to the enemy is hidden behind the thread generation multiplier. Tanks (and healers) must have high enough stats and power magnitudes to be able to play solo without any problems. To do this, their power should be exposed to direct ("visible") DPS as much as possible. The proposition with CA from above can help with this - the DPS burst is situational.
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I suggest adding a higher base deflect severity for tanks, as this is a very hard stat to increase in the new system. The other defensive stats are all single stats that grant a lot of “effective hit points”, deflect/deflect severity takes a lot more effort to get to the same level of effective hit points. Increased base deflect severity would counter a small part of this issue.
Perhaps you might want to explain why that particular secret nerf was made @noworries#8859?
Part of this bankruptcy (which suddenly befell many players) can be avoided by increasing the Power bar, for example, to 150%. Still as option 90% but from any sources, not dividing on 50% and 40 % from other sources.
In the example below with 80% defense, damage is actually mitigated by 70% (x0.3)
[Combat (Self)]Critical Hit! Halaster deals 344574 (1142297) Arcane Damage to you with Arcane Blast
1142297*0.3 = 342,689.1
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Awareness and HP
Hello, I'm doing it through google translator, so forgive me for any concordance errors.I would like to make a suggestion regarding awareness, instead of simply placing additional damage on the boss, why not add progressive damage to the current target of the boss, adding X of extra damage, every Y second in combat with a limit of up to Z times per. similar to the damage scheduling that the Halaster skill applies so that with slightly less damage added, think of it this way, if the tank is getting the Boss’s attention all the time, this makes the Boss focused on ending this target giving him the advantage of progressive combat. Hypothetical example: every 5 seconds in combat the target the boss is focused on takes 20% more damage and can stack up to 5 times. This effect is removed if the boss changes targets for more than 30 seconds. Understand that I'm not a mathematician, I'm just exemplifying how it can work in theory.
This leaves the window for another relationship in the new system which is the high HP of DPS and Healer. 10x TIL in HP for DPS and Healer seems to me a very high value, I think it would be more consistent for these roles to have less base HP, maybe 5x TIL. this can have a direct impact on the awareness system that I suggested above. as it allows tanks to benefit better from their status and their base HP, since Dungoen’s mechanics will do more damage to it based on combat time, while DPS and Healer don’t need as much HP to survive the mechanics since they are not affected by the Boss's combat advantage, unless the tank loses aggro at some point. I think this makes the discrepancy between the tank's HP and DPS / Healer bigger so that the extra HP choices for these enchants and mounts roles are taken into account according to combat type.
For players who are not on preview testing and prepping for day one on Live release. What do you suggest they do when they come in and find they are over capped on stats?
Should they shuffle enchants? In this case above, pulling every enchant that grants critical severity doesn't cut it. This character only has 3 rank 9 that grants a total of 405.
Should they run "as is" and avoid adding anything that would increase the critical severity until their item level is above 29K?
Should they shop for new gear and pitch the gear with critical severity on it?
I think this topic will heat up greatly upon release, as the majority of the players don't get on forums, fewer yet test on preview.
PSN Zen AD Exchange - Forecasting Spreadsheet
Enemy Deflect Severity = 90% always
Enemy Deflection% Chance = ????
If Deflection chance of enemies is always 50%, then accuracy will multiply damage by 145% at 90% accuracy
If Combat Advantage of 90% hits half the time then it will multiply damage by 145%
If Critical severity and Critical chance are both 90% then together they will multiply damage by 181%
If Power is at 90%, it will multiply damage by 190%
All of these are mitigated by defense stats, i'm just estimating raw values. To me it looks like power is worth twice as much as the others, which are all close enough that it doesn't particularly matter what you prioritize, as long as you put some into accuracy.
This makes accuracy the most important stat to cap.
Suppose a)100 base damage with 90% power and 50% accuracy vs b)100 base damage with 50% power and 90% accuracy:
a)100+90 from power=190; 50% accuracy would mean critters mitigate 40% of that damage resulting in total damage of 190*.6= 114 total damage.
b)100+50 from power=150; 90% accuracy would mean critters mitigate 0% of that damage resulting in total damage of 150*1.0= 150 total damage.
Lets see what happens at 75% for both power and accuracy...
100+75 from power=175; 75% accuracy would mean critters mitigate 15% of that damage resulting in total damage of 175*.85= 148.75 total damage.
I'm guessing 80% power and 80% accuracy is probably the sweet spot...(or thereabouts)
100+80 from power=180; 80% accuracy would mean critters mitigate 10% of that damage resulting in total damage of 180*.9= 162 total damage.
Going for that 80/80 balance sweet spot would allow you to put more points into your conditional offensive stat (combat advantage) or your dependent offensive stats (Crit and Crit Severity).
(I know people won't do that; they will cap both Power and Accuracy and one other Offensive Stat (should be Combat Advantage, especially if you do a lot of group content) and pray that someone is using a Holy Avenger that kicks in to help cut back some damage while their Shadowclad builds up stacks.)
So yes, you are technically right, but no, it is not an universally valid statement.
Side note, you add percents, or multiply by a multiplier. Multiply by 1.45 or add/increease 45% to your damage or have 145% of your damage. If you want to average damage to the number of hits, but this is not as simple, first, players have more CA than 50%, two, players who pay attention move to have CA before the main rotation. Meaning for example, if you have a daily in a debuff window, you make sure that you have CA and not waste it. CA is not chance stat, so it can be forcibly skewed toward higher damage multiplier as looked of the total damage. But lower as percent of the total hits, since the hits are not equal in magnitude. yes, 1.81 multiplayer is the average over infinite number of hits. 1.9 Multiplier / 90% increase. Yes. Like was mentioned before by rikitaki
Increasing Power from 85% to 90% is 2.7% damage increase
Increasing Accuracy from 45% to 50% is 3.2% damage increase
Also as we increase our item level more and more our Forte Gets Lower, so we need Forte the new stat to be added to Gear because right now Forte cannot be capped to 50%
I'm getting the following data for PvE.
Raising Power from 0 to 90% multiplies your damage by a factor of 1.90
Raising Accuracy from 0 to 90% multiplies your damage by a factor of 1.81
Raising Combat Advantage from 0 to 90% multiplies your damage by a factor of 1.45 (if you get CA half of the time)
Raising CritSeverity plus CritChance from 0 to 90% multiplies your damage by a factor of 1.81
The independent factor for Crit Severity & Crit Chance is 1.345 each (If you raise them from 0 to 90%)
NOTES:
Accuracy gives greater value toward 0%, and lower value as you approach 90%
Critical% & Severity gives poor value if either are low, and better value as they both approach 90%
In my opinion, this data suggests 2 distinct build options for DPS:
1) Low Stat or Companion DPS
Maximize Power & Accuracy
Put remaining points into Combat Advantage
Ignore Crit Severity and Crit chance
This is the best build if you have low stat totals, or if you choose to run an active companion and can't maximize Critical. With this setup, players have more flexibility and may be able run companion features instead of pure stat boosts. These players will be free to use any weapon enchantment except Vorpal.
2) High Stat or augment DPS build
Maximize Power & Accuracy
Maximize Critical Severity Critical Strike (as long as you can get them from 75% to 90% range)
Ignore Combat Advantage stat increases
This setup de-emphasizes Combat Advantage and makes Vorpal the best weapon enchantment choice. Gaining combat advantage will still help but is no longer essential. With this setup, a player will probably run an augment, and will be free to select any mount insignia power choices... which can help with survivability. For players in the 50,000 IL range, it may actually be possible to run an active companion with this Crit build, but, depending on paragon and location, may decrease total damage output by doing so.
3) Economy class cheapskate
Don't maximize anything, keep Power and CA at the same level, accu 10 % behind, ignore crit severity (it will pile up anyway) - just put something to critical (to trigger additional effects.)
Either way, you kind of do not have much of a choice - you work with what forte dictates you. Companion choices are rather limited, so the "maximize this or that" sometimes is not even in the options.
First, accuracy is a deflection counter, so it is a mitigation, then, when you have 0% accuracy this multiplies your damage by a factor 0.1 and when you have 90% accuracy this multiplies your damage by a factor 1.
Second, i dont know why you say "if you get CA half of the time", in a boss fight you have CA almost 100% of time.
> crit severity cap is 90%, but with vorpal you get 110% crit severity only for at-will, encounter and daily
But if I reduse my crit severity chanse by 15% from total, or my vorpal compensate my 15% crit severity, and like example I put in my comp slot samething with 3.8 combat advantage, so or I do more dmg if I lose like 3.8 base crit sev but increase combat advantage? Then I use vorpal
And yea after yesterday pach we don't have anymore 10 crit severity from off hand now it's just 500 total cs
The reworked mastercraft armor/rings should have their stats looked at. The Avernus rings gives +5 or more % to ratings, while the masterwork gear gives 1000 (rings) or 1500 (armor). Adjusting these values would make the masterworkers happy, and players would have even more alternatives for their stat balancing.
A lot of feedback has been given on the cap of defense being much more significant that other stats. Where Power maxed out almost doubles the damage you do, 90% defense brings damage down to 1/10th of what it would do.
This creates some extra imbalances for tanks/non tanks as damage high enough to threaten a tank is pretty devastating to a non-tank with 40-50% defense.
Currently on preview dungeons have critters with a 10% armor pen to make the content a bit harder and to also lessen the divide between tanks and non-tanks. If a dps has 50% defense and a tank 90%, without that armor pen a dps takes 5x the damage of a tank, with that armor pen they take 3x.
One of the proposals has been to simply change defense to a cap of 45%. This would mean that capping the rating would =25%, and there would be a total of 45% from all sources. Being 1000 below TIL would reduce defense by 0.5% instead of 1%, and other sources of defense would have their amount cut in half.
This does give Defense a slightly different setup than other stats on the character sheet.
Wanted to hear thoughts from players before going forward with that kind of change. Note: we would lower dungeon boss damages if we made this change as they've been pushed much higher due to the current amount of defense.
A Tanks role is to absorb the damage of all enemies! If other roles are being hit (by single target attacks), that is the fault of the Tank. I would prefer there to be this gap between a tank and non-tank role, as it makes it actually necessary to run with a tank in your party, outside of content with specific tank mechanics (Zariel, ToMM etc).
All the older content is currently (on the live server) very easily completed with just a group of Dps and sometimes a healer, but this is only due to the fact that Dps currently have their Defense capped with no small amount of Hp (due to Zariel trial mechanics). So the way it currently stands with defense capped at 90%, it's pretty costly for a non-tank role to cap defense (due to Forte), and thus the ability for a Tank to be able to absorb a lot more damage than a non-tank would (even with you secretly reducing our shields to only 40% of our max Hp).
However the case still stands, that yes, it can be pretty devastating for a non-tank to be hit by area attacks and unavoidable attacks without them having this 90% defense. So in this something needs to be done.
I suggest, instead of reducing the defense cap to 45%, leave it how it is, but reduce the unavoidable attacks damage values to be more inline with the expected value of defense non-tanks should have. I believe 50% isn't too hard to get, but still somewhat of a challenge. If the worry is that Dps may go above this 50% just to either become more survivable and not need a healer or tank, then this should be balanced with having a negative impact on their Dps. But leaving this option is somewhat of a good thing as it leads to diversity within the game and giving players a bit more freedom in their build choices, rather than hard capping it, which you could, at 50% for a non tank.
Ultimately, having the damage values on the attacks directed at the aggravator being high enough to, maybe not one shot, but be pretty unforgiving, allows for a lot more respect of the tanks, as they would need to go first to take the Aggro. As it should be.