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  • jman3l#5579 jman3l Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    My post was deleted from general feedback, perhaps because its more related to stats. I will post here instead.

    Vorpal should be changed to at least 9% critical strike / 9% critical severity (perhaps my original suggestion of 9% was not appreciated). The math is as follows:
    Crit strike part of damage formula = (1 + crit*critsev), and I will use the following logic:

    Bone Devils Ribcage gives 12.5% crit and 12.5% critical severity. With potions, its a reasonable assumption that almost every player can cap critical severity, and will be able to somehow min max the 9% critical severity from vorpal enchant into other stats. Its almost almost impossible to have under 65% critical strike with this chest piece.

    So assuming everyone has this chest piece, starting from 65% crit and 81% crit sev, 9% each from vorpal would give a 9.14% damage increase. If the player can somehow manage to get to 81% crit and 81% crit sev, adding this vorpal would give a 9.3% damage increase. This is about inline with what bilethorn gives for most classes, and a bit less than what bilethorn gives in damage to the faster hitting classes. Please take this feedback into consideration.
  • coolgor28#5062 coolgor28 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 79 Arc User
    9% seems a bit high bc you have like 5% more damage from vorpal proc , will be like 14% more damage with vorpal, vorpal will be better again then bile and we need to buff bile again , but i don't mind either way as most of us have both weapon enchants.
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  • jman3l#5579 jman3l Member Posts: 300 Arc User

    9% seems a bit high bc you have like 5% more damage from vorpal proc , will be like 14% more damage with vorpal, vorpal will be better again then bile and we need to buff bile again , but i don't mind either way as most of us have both weapon enchants.

    I wasn't counting the 8% damage increase from both of them, only their unique effects. Can you elaborate on what you mean? I was just basing it on the damage that would be given from the critical hit portion of the damage formula, and comparing that to a 5 minute ACT log parse using bilethorn enchantment. I did this on my ranger in port nyanzaru on the boss dummy, and in TOMM. Bilethorn was roughly 8% to 10% damage (just the DoT). The damage increase on vorpal will differ a lot depending on how much crit and crit sev you have before you slot the vorpal, so I tried to give reasonable examples. Let me know your thoughts.
  • coolgor28#5062 coolgor28 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 79 Arc User
    If you see on act bile damage is poison damage the 8% one and the proc magnitude one so the damage you see is from both in total % they are not different are both calculated , vorpal is different you get damage from crit and sev as stat + the % vorpal damage that you see on act. On act you see like 5% damage but that is only from proc without the crit and sev on top, that's why i say 9% will be bit high.
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    The imaginary Friends

    Main Kingslayer.jr(barb)
  • jman3l#5579 jman3l Member Posts: 300 Arc User

    If you see on act bile damage is poison damage the 8% one and the proc magnitude one so the damage you see is from both in total % they are not different are both calculated , vorpal is different you get damage from crit and sev as stat + the % vorpal damage that you see on act. On act you see like 5% damage but that is only from proc without the crit and sev on top, that's why i say 9% will be bit high.

    Interesting.. I did not know this. Which class are you playing if you don't mind sharing? So 4% / 4% would end up being a 4% increase provided you go from 86%/86% to 90%/90%, and that is not shown on ACT? Okay I will have to check the overall encdps numbers then. Thanks for clarifying.
  • coolgor28#5062 coolgor28 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 79 Arc User
    Barbarian main but usually all, you see me in chult Kingslayer.jr is the name. Just saying and probably bile is more on dummies' because you hit a lot more with at wills , need more tests in tomm and zariel to see how much is the diference.
    Guild

    The imaginary Friends

    Main Kingslayer.jr(barb)
  • shadowboss87#8300 shadowboss87 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    Dear community, I want to get an answer to one single question. It depends on whether I stay in the game or not. Enemies have 90% of all characteristics. Critical hit chance, accuracy, combat advantage, and so on. Can we, the players, get the same parameters? Now on the test server, I managed to achieve as much as possible only 60% accuracy. The combat advantage even falls short of 60%. And this is having 10 mythical companions. In the name of all the gods, what do I need to do to equal my enemies? I don't want half of my blows to be reflected by the enemy.
  • hastati96hastati96 Member Posts: 466 Arc User

    Dear community, I want to get an answer to one single question. It depends on whether I stay in the game or not. Enemies have 90% of all characteristics. Critical hit chance, accuracy, combat advantage, and so on. Can we, the players, get the same parameters? Now on the test server, I managed to achieve as much as possible only 60% accuracy. The combat advantage even falls short of 60%. And this is having 10 mythical companions. In the name of all the gods, what do I need to do to equal my enemies? I don't want half of my blows to be reflected by the enemy.

    Not every stat of your enemy is that high. Defense, Crit and Deflect chance are only 50%.
    Your Accuracy counters the enemie's 90% deflect severity for example. If you bring your Accuracy to 90% it makes the Deflect of your enemy useless.

    It is possible to bring at least 3, on some classes even 4 offensive stats to 90% so maybe you should work further on your build.
    Nero - Palacetamol - Essence of Aggression
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,220 Arc User

    Dear community, I want to get an answer to one single question. It depends on whether I stay in the game or not. Enemies have 90% of all characteristics. Critical hit chance, accuracy, combat advantage, and so on. Can we, the players, get the same parameters? Now on the test server, I managed to achieve as much as possible only 60% accuracy. The combat advantage even falls short of 60%. And this is having 10 mythical companions. In the name of all the gods, what do I need to do to equal my enemies? I don't want half of my blows to be reflected by the enemy.

    Enemies do not have 90% in everything. Only Crit severity, Combat Advantage, and deflect severity are at 90%. Crit, Defense, Deflect are 50%. Power is unknown since we don't know the weapon damage and magnitudes of the enemy, and Crit avoid, awareness, and accuracy are 0%. All these values are so that any stat has value at any % number. Crit and Deflect chance add rng to the mix, and defense is there so that players can debuff it.
  • xvimn134xvimn134 Member Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited January 16

    An easier way to look at it is any given stat's effectiveness:

    Power - almost doubles damage
    Combat Advantage - almost doubles damage

    Awareness - almost halves incoming damage
    Defense - reduces incoming damage to 1/10


    Defense is working on a magnitude much greater than any other stat is where the concern is. So where right now all the scales look the same on the character sheet and simplifies that view, in reality, Defense works on a different scale.

    Swapping the cap to defense to 45%, it brings it into a similar effect scale in game, but does give it a different visual scale on the character sheet.

    The thing is everyone will cap the defense so easily in new mod with just a little effort, there is no diversity for different class/roles. Even in pvp without companion it is so easy to cap defense for some classes. Maybe increase it to 60% or 70% to make it much harder to cap to increase diversity?
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,220 Arc User
    xvimn134 said:

    An easier way to look at it is any given stat's effectiveness:

    Power - almost doubles damage
    Combat Advantage - almost doubles damage

    Awareness - almost halves incoming damage
    Defense - reduces incoming damage to 1/10


    Defense is working on a magnitude much greater than any other stat is where the concern is. So where right now all the scales look the same on the character sheet and simplifies that view, in reality, Defense works on a different scale.

    Swapping the cap to defense to 45%, it brings it into a similar effect scale in game, but does give it a different visual scale on the character sheet.

    The thing is everyone will cap the defense so easily in new mod with just a little effort, there is no diversity for different class/roles. Even in pvp without companion it is so easy to cap defense for some classes. Maybe increase it to 60% or 70% to make it much harder to cap to increase diversity?
    The cap is at 90% though (and the formula changed since that quote defense now almost halves incoming damage just like awareness). Unless you mean that defense should have a lower cap?
  • jman3l#5579 jman3l Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    xvimn134 said:

    An easier way to look at it is any given stat's effectiveness:

    Power - almost doubles damage
    Combat Advantage - almost doubles damage

    Awareness - almost halves incoming damage
    Defense - reduces incoming damage to 1/10


    Defense is working on a magnitude much greater than any other stat is where the concern is. So where right now all the scales look the same on the character sheet and simplifies that view, in reality, Defense works on a different scale.

    Swapping the cap to defense to 45%, it brings it into a similar effect scale in game, but does give it a different visual scale on the character sheet.

    The thing is everyone will cap the defense so easily in new mod with just a little effort, there is no diversity for different class/roles. Even in pvp without companion it is so easy to cap defense for some classes. Maybe increase it to 60% or 70% to make it much harder to cap to increase diversity?
    Brutal this is old info you are quoting from Noworries. The defense formula was changed forever ago lol, and its not easy to cap it to 90%.
  • aragon#8379 aragon Member Posts: 65 Arc User
    Healing still has no benefit from "Other Contributions" of Power,

    Is this intended?

    Tested this on my Paladin Oathkeeper using Cure Wounds.

    [Combat (Self)]Your Cure Wounds gives 56291 (38215) Hit Points to you]

    With, 5,860 Damage, 70.4% Power and 64.8% Outgoing Healing.

    That calculates to 5860 x 2.75 x 1.704 x 1.648 = 45254 (disregarding Incoming Healing)
    And this is not equal to the heal of 38215 that I got.

    It is in fact equal to the heal of:
    5860 x 2.75 x 1.439 x 1.648 = 38216

    And that is with calculating that power only gives me 43.9%
    Which is equal to my Power % from Ratings!


  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited January 23
    For the last four weeks I've spent about a hundred hours thinking about Critical and Deflection statistics balance. I've come up with a dozen different layouts and few of them made it to post. Finally, after considering all the aspects, I prefer the following change.


    Deflect Severity: A deflection modifies incoming damage by.... 100 / (100 + 2xDeflectionSeverity)

    Critical Severity: Critical Severity affect should be doubled. damage = 100% +2% per CriticalSeverity



    This change retains the polar opposite nature of Deflection and Critical Hits, but increases their effect, so that they are near-equal value to the other stats. Accuracy and Critical Avoidance can still completely negate them, so there should be no concern with over-empowerment. With this formula, a critical hit with 90% critical severity would deal 2.8x damage instead of 1.9x damage that we have now. In practice, most enemies have some built in Critical Avoidance, so this amount is never reached.

    With Deflect Severity at 90% a deflected hit would deal 37% damage with this system, whereas in the current system a deflected hit deals 52.6% damage. It cannot be over-stated how significant real gameplay is. In real play, most opponents have some accuracy which can completely negate deflect severity.

    The above system makes every stat debatably equivalent in importance. In our current system, Critical and Deflection stats are so innefective that they are 'leftover' stats that are mostly negated by an opponent's ambient combined stats. Please consider implementing this change.
    Post edited by zimxero#8085 on
  • gromovnipljesak#8234 gromovnipljesak Member Posts: 1,042 Arc User
    Hey @noworries#8859,

    I believe this change is way, WAY too extreme. It isn't very rewarding to upgrade - for example, I'm at a level where I could probably finish Master Zariel's Challenge, but lack of experience is preventing me from doing so, and no one is doing practice runs because it's too hard. So I don't have an incentive to upgrade, other than future mods which might have the same issue, and by the time I'm there, the content could easily be outdated.

    Now, since the incentive to upgrade is based entirely on the hardest content, rather than old content - I have a suggestion.

    If we take for example The Infernal Citadel, which once you're past the requirement, scales you down to 36k. Since I'm in the position between TIC and ZC (and baby ZC doesn't offer any rewards I could need), my goal is Master ZC. However as previously established, I doubt I'll get into that any time soon, and previous sets are better anyways.

    So - to counter that issue, my suggestion is thus: make a non-linear increase in damage based on how much above you are in TIL. Inverse to how stats below TIL are calculated, let's say for TIC and its 36k TIL cap, and the player is 40k. That gives 4320 damage max if my math is right. Then, for every let's say 1k TIL you're above the requirement, you gain bonus damage, over the cap, with diminishing returns to make upgrades worthwhile in the mid phases, while not making all content completely pointless.

    So say per 1k TIL with some logical operators, if(TIL > TIL cap) { for every (IL over IL cap)/1000, reduce bonus by 10% per cycle, from a bonus of 2% to the total}. Else damage.


    After the formula, for the 40k at 36k TIL content, the damage is 4320+84.6+(84.6-10%)+(84.6-20%)+(84.6-30%), up to what, 10 cycles?

    The increase isn't huge, but its rewarding enough for people to actually try it.

    Shouldn't throw the balance off, rewards upgrades at *every* level which is very much needed here, up to a point where it would affect the damage too much. This is just napkin math but in the end, can be adjusted. As long as players get SOME form of reward for repetition. Most of the time people aren't running endgame content anyways because only like 5% of the playerbase can do it.

    Cheers, and have a good one.
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