This is funny. GWF has had 1 viable PvE build since mod 4 and no one makes a peep about it. AC has a better Daily power than DO and all hell breaks loose. In all the AA rage threads the common argument was not the power sharing but that it's mitigation property made the games content trivial. So now they're fixing that. Yet now it's about the power sharing? You do understand that each class in the game has a Paragon that is superior to the other for PvE right? Do you even play other classes?
(*this does not pertain to all. There's been a lot of good criticism amongst the die hard DO cries. )
I would like to see the DO be buffed in other ways to compete with AC that have nothing to do with that stupid Daily ability. Like buff Foresight another 10% so it's a real buff to party mitigation. Make Terifying insight a party wide buff. Fix PoD and give it a slight buff as well. (Keep in mind, the stronger you buff DO the more incentive parties have to run 2x clerics to stack the buffs from both paragons. This might be a non issue since the DC community is shrinking. Most parties struggle to find 1 DC to run content never mind 2.)
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
This is funny. GWF has had 1 viable PvE build since mod 4 and no one makes a peep about it.
People who say nobody complains about poor balance on [insert class here] just haven't been paying attention. Some players express themselves more stridently than others, but every class has people championing its issues. The total lack of viability of anything but a destroyer GWF is brought up constantly. /offtopic
This is funny. GWF has had 1 viable PvE build since mod 4 and no one makes a peep about it. AC has a better Daily power than DO and all hell breaks loose.
Some care... Then there are those who only care about their destroyers, and trappers, or w/e.....
Maybe you're just playing dumb to how much damage this daily... is capable of providing. Should anything be allowed to do so much?
And compare the two dailies, one is so much more superior to the point that it's not even funny.
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putzboy78Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,950Arc User
This might be a non issue since the DC community is shrinking. Most parties struggle to find 1 DC to run content never mind 2.)
So analyze that, if you think the DC community is shrinking, what is causing the shrink? If a class shrinks faster than the remaining population of a game is it
1) The mechanics are not fun (I've argued that the divinity over time mechanic less daily's of DO makes it more enjoyable than AC) 2) Is it unrewarding? I've mentioned that the game rewards kill speed not group composition or mission completion. Especially when you consider the most rewarding thing you can do in the game is proc your Dragon Hoards, Quartermasters, and Fey Blessings) and almost all specialty events encourage killing for mob drops. 3) Is it that most gamers are self-centered and need to see their names on the tops of paingiver to validate their effort?
So what would you say is the root cause?
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arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
edited February 2017
@dreadnaught#5263 please fix hastening light wepon feature if u have to reduce the ap % given np for me, but please fix it, ty
This might be a non issue since the DC community is shrinking. Most parties struggle to find 1 DC to run content never mind 2.)
So analyze that, if you think the DC community is shrinking, what is causing the shrink? If a class shrinks faster than the remaining population of a game is it
1) The mechanics are not fun (I've argued that the divinity over time mechanic less daily's of DO makes it more enjoyable than AC) 2) Is it unrewarding? I've mentioned that the game rewards kill speed not group composition or mission completion. Especially when you consider the most rewarding thing you can do in the game is proc your Dragon Hoards, Quartermasters, and Fey Blessings) and almost all specialty events encourage killing for mob drops. 3) Is it that most gamers are self-centered and need to see their names on the tops of paingiver to validate their effort?
So what would you say is the root cause?
I can only speak for myself why I opted not to play DC... reading these forums and in-game, when you see that high levels don't need that much healing, it kind of takes half the fun out of it for me I used to play White Mage in FFxiv, could be tricky (having to time burst healing with big hits, else instant wipe , even with classes doing damage mitigation.. yeah I must have been a HAMSTER ). I loved swapping stances from dps/debuff to healing. That could possibly be one of the reasons why DC player base seems to be shrinking. I love being jack of all trades in regards to healing, I'd rather sacrifice DPS for myself though, to aid the team to improve theirs.
From what I gathered from reading other people's posts, some ideas I like are making other paragon paths viable by working on skill trees, would love to see more varied builds than involve more damage mitigation/prepping BEFORE a hit (kind of like scholar in ffxiv).
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treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
This might be a non issue since the DC community is shrinking. Most parties struggle to find 1 DC to run content never mind 2.)
So analyze that, if you think the DC community is shrinking, what is causing the shrink? If a class shrinks faster than the remaining population of a game is it
1) The mechanics are not fun (I've argued that the divinity over time mechanic less daily's of DO makes it more enjoyable than AC) 2) Is it unrewarding? I've mentioned that the game rewards kill speed not group composition or mission completion. Especially when you consider the most rewarding thing you can do in the game is proc your Dragon Hoards, Quartermasters, and Fey Blessings) and almost all specialty events encourage killing for mob drops. 3) Is it that most gamers are self-centered and need to see their names on the tops of paingiver to validate their effort?
So what would you say is the root cause?
The cause for me: Healing devalorized; Divinity build up constantly interupted; Slow cast on some powers;
2) It's definitivly worth as a only pug player DC's are the concept of heaven and in my case geting enchats from utility slots is easy. 3) No, most of the times i dont even bother checking paingiver, it's just a number and does not express your worth but plenty of the players i find mention/give more attention to it, not to offend anyone but if make a % of the distriution of females in the game you'll see the % that play healer is much bigger than that % in males because of simply that number and males are more competitive so even a non dps would like to see the name in the paingiver, the correct would be give it to them? No. Valorize field medic, yes.How? No idea.
This might be a non issue since the DC community is shrinking. Most parties struggle to find 1 DC to run content never mind 2.)
So analyze that, if you think the DC community is shrinking, what is causing the shrink? If a class shrinks faster than the remaining population of a game is it
1) The mechanics are not fun (I've argued that the divinity over time mechanic less daily's of DO makes it more enjoyable than AC) 2) Is it unrewarding? I've mentioned that the game rewards kill speed not group composition or mission completion. Especially when you consider the most rewarding thing you can do in the game is proc your Dragon Hoards, Quartermasters, and Fey Blessings) and almost all specialty events encourage killing for mob drops. 3) Is it that most gamers are self-centered and need to see their names on the tops of paingiver to validate their effort?
So what would you say is the root cause?
Most likely number 3.
People rolled a DC because they wanted to primarily Heal the party while providing buffs or damage as a secondary. This game has killed the need for a dedicated healer leaving only secondary abilities. Buff or Damage. Which would you say is more rewarding to the average player? We haven't done competitive level damage since pre mod 5 leaving us as party buffs. AC does that waaaaaay better than DO. Which leaves AC clerics completely bored and DO clerics super salty. That's in my theory what's making the DC an undesirable class. Don't get me wrong, I have a DC. He is a DPS focused AC cleric. My AA spamming is for me to up my DPS past what I could do when I was DO. I'm happy with the changes coming our way. Honestly I was sick of people requesting AA because they didn't want to dodge or play with any mitigation of their own just full on glass cannons screaming "where's balls!"
@beckylunatic no I don't live under a rock. I read the forums and I'm active in almost all class communities as I enjoy theory crafting builds not just for myself on my GWF and DC but for my friends as well. Maybe it's because Lia and Laz ushered so many sheep GWF into the promise land of Destroyer heaven at a time when we crawled out of the obscurity of nerfdom post mod 3 changes all the way to mod 6 that kept the backlash to a dull roar. My point is that every class has that one paragon and one path that is dominant for that meta. So the Righteous AC cleric is the new Trapper HR, Damnation SW, Destroyer SM GWF, Protection OP, Tactician GF (currently conqueror gf), MoF CW, MI TR.. You know what I mean? I completely agree with the nerf to AA, hell I think they could roll the power share down to 25% given the stupid bonding stones feature. My only issue with this thread and most threads in this whiny community is the "nerf that because I play this and refuse to change" mentality. Do you have any idea how much money I've spent on race re rolls and respec's on my characters over the past 2 years on console because of massive class balances with no test server to test your build? This game changes a lot, and often, and you have to roll with those changes. If you do it's more rewarding and keeps you interested in the class if you don't you risk obscurity and ride the bench instead of getting picked up in groups, leading to a life of pissing and moaning on the forums about how "they" should be nerfed because "me!" You see what I'm getting at?
*LESS TEMP HP* until they fix the bug on determination. All GWFs lose most of their damage without that form.
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treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
edited February 2017
My post was deleted....much probably by me because of this fast editing and save throwing them to approve zone, anyway here it goes, but 1 notes, AA + HG is a very strong combination that makes AA still preferable over DO, and yes i do want to see people building for 18k recovery iiiif they well intend to and spam daillies, you know why If i want to use a dps daillie i have no reason to do it instead HG without prejudicing my party and to pass the damage me + my party would deal with HG using FS it would take FS to hit not like a truck but has 2 trucks(TIR ones), in fact virtuous has a great AP gain that will throw it more in line with Righteous by not needing so much ap gain, building tremendous amounts of recovery is not necessary to make encounters viable, i always had 9k
Feedback:Powers:Searing light:
Searing light – Arm pen on empowered is not good, in pve, even if i have a build that focus my damage on searing light empowered the Arm pen i dont invest in order to get the 60% will likelly make my damage output lesser because of the sum of all other powers. Not just the arm pen is in most cases of no use also the damage is very low when comparing to chains of blazing light foe example, while in theory having searing light would spare a healing power, because of divinity mode, in practice that doesn't hapen because it's very restrict.
Sugestion: Empowered: By each divinity stack increases your arm penetration by 10% for 2/4/6. seconds; Divinity mode: Heal increase from 15% to 30%.
Feedback:Powers:Sacred flame:
Sacred flame is weak, dps is lower than lance of faith, divinity generated lower and no multi target final damage, the temp hp granted is very very small.
Bug:Sacred flame Sacred flame 3rd hit is hitting allies with aura of courage (i had aura of courage + vengeance using a plaguefire);
Feedback:Powers:Daunting light: Daunting light:: Extremly good DPS but area extemly small to match the damage, many many times it fails to hit the target.
Feedback:Powers:Prophecy of doom: Prophecy of doom: Very slow cast time, many people dont use it for this reason, casting will case problems somewhere else, being controled or delay the return to the rotation, delaying divinity generation therefore party protection/ buffs.
Feedback:Powers:Astral Shield Astral Shield – In pve this power is good, but not an overhaul, however in pvp the damage mitigation provides will easly make all the enemy attacks hit for 0, even if we think “but that's ok, other powers can heal allies up very easly if im really good healer”, the damage the hole team would take during Astral shield duration is superior the the heals easly, specially because of healing depression.
Feedback:Powers:Warding flare Warding flare – The temp HP provided by this power is very small, when comparing with astral shield, the normal/empowered mode, not even in a 1vs1 situation in pvp. I guess the power was designed to protect heavly 1 target but we cannot manually define wich target we want to be protected.
Feedback:Powers:Geas Geas-.....praticly no use anywhere.
Bug:Break the spirit: Break the spirit is granting condemned in a area inspite of being a single target abbility.
Feedback: Class features:Terryfiing insight:
Terryfiing insight – Anointed champion has the abbillity to cast Hallowed ground and AA at the same time increasing party damage by x power and still buff their damage with HG, Divine oracle can instead use other daillie but usually faster kill, safer kill, this is a very small change but a very important one in my opinion: Instead each stack of terrifing insight granting 2% DR debuff on the target, increase 1% DR debuff and increase DC damage by 1%, this should make it always usefull in pvp and pve.
Feedback: Class features:Light of divinity: Light of divinity – The heal provided by this CF is very low.
Feedback: Class features:Light of divinity: Soothe: Praticly no use, if your intention in this CF remains i think that att least the off hand class feature should work differently.
Feedback: Class features:Anointed action: Anointed action is very short powerfull, yet barelly gives time to react.
Feedback:Feats:Piercing light: Piercing light could use a buff, bear your sins can be triggered by even 1 point in fire of the gods and 3 other powers, basicly it's not hard to get bear your sins and it's a debuff that will affect group, im not saying nerf it, im saying give piercing light some love.
Feedback:Feats:Living fire and final acts: If a faithfull choses these feats they will be praticly never active.
Feedback:Artifact bonus:
Healer's lore, divine fortune, anointed armour all grant 150 of a stat, so in the best cases 0,75% of the effect of that stat.
Anointed holy simbol only activates in some encounters.
Someone mentioned the lack of CC and Damage resist for DC's, i agree, for a DC to get CC resist need huge amount of deflect or a elven battle and the dodge mechanic consumes a lot of stamina, unlike CW's DC rellies a lot on at wills to refill divinity that gets not easy with all pvp CC so the best way to handle it is class wide, probably this way:
If the dc has no divinity chanelling non divinity will break CC and keep the imnunity for 3 seconds; If the DC has divinity chanelling non divinity will reduce the CC by % based on the missin g divinity 3 seconds.
Cooldown 10 seconds.
Chanelling divinity will give to the DC temp hit points based on missing health equal at most to 30% of DC full HP at 0 health. Cooldown 10 seconds.
Searing light – Arm pen on empowered is not good, in pve, even if i have a build that focus my damage on searing light empowered the Arm pen i dont invest in order to get the 60% will likelly make my damage output lesser because of the sum of all other powers. Not just the arm pen is in most cases of no use also the damage is very low when comparing to chains of blazing light foe example, while in theory having searing light would spare a healing power, because of divinity mode, in practice that doesn't hapen because it's very restrict.
Sugestion: Empowered: By each divinity stack increases your arm penetration by 10% for 2/4/6. seconds; Divinity mode: Heal increase from 15% to 30%.
Yeah I agree that the armor pen change this would make it more viable to avoid stacking armor pen, but in the end it would force the cleric to always use Searing Light. I personally think that the armor pen effect should be removed entirely, and the rest of the power buffed in general.
Sacred flame is weak, dps is lower than lance of faith, divinity generated lower and no multi target final damage, the temp hp granted is very very small.
Bug:Sacred flame Sacred flame 3rd hit is hitting allies with aura of courage (i had aura of courage + vengeance using a plaguefire);
Exactly. And I think you actually understated the amount of temp hp it gives.
Feedback:Powers:Daunting light: Daunting light:: Extremly good DPS but area extemly small to match the damage, many many times it fails to hit the target.
I think they need to be careful adjusting this power. If they make it too big it becomes and AoE Disintegrate. My Daunting Light often hits for 350~700k damage between solo and group content.
Feedback:Powers:Prophecy of doom: Prophecy of doom: Very slow cast time, many people dont use it for this reason, casting will case problems somewhere else, being controled or delay the return to the rotation, delaying divinity generation therefore party protection/ buffs.
Not only that, but only the debuff on this power even works. In group content (where it should be most useful), it often does nothing due to the debuff cap.
Feedback:Powers:Astral Shield Astral Shield – In pve this power is good, but not an overhaul, however in pvp the damage mitigation provides will easly make all the enemy attacks hit for 0, even if we think “but that's ok, other powers can heal allies up very easly if im really good healer”, the damage the hole team would take during Astral shield duration is superior the the heals easly, specially because of healing depression.
Feedback:Powers:Warding flare Warding flare – The temp HP provided by this power is very small, when comparing with astral shield, the normal/empowered mode, not even in a 1vs1 situation in pvp. I guess the power was designed to protect heavly 1 target but we cannot manually define wich target we want to be protected.
Yes. Put simply: Astral Shield is working okay for PvE, is too strong in PvP, and Warding Flare does absolutely nothing.
Terryfiing insight – Anointed champion has the abbillity to cast Hallowed ground and AA at the same time increasing party damage by x power and still buff their damage with HG, Divine oracle can instead use other daillie but usually faster kill, safer kill, this is a very small change but a very important one in my opinion: Instead each stack of terrifing insight granting 2% DR debuff on the target, increase 1% DR debuff and increase DC damage by 1%, this should make it always usefull in pvp and pve.
It would be nice if Terrifying Insight had both a debuff and self buff component. Even if it required a feat to do it. It's not like any of the current Divine Oracle specific feats are any good anyways.
Feedback: Class features:Light of divinity: Soothe: Praticly no use, if your intention in this CF remains i think that att least the off hand class feature should work differently.
Not gaining threat is very pointless (and almost harmful) in most content. Not only that, but only reducing threat on healing powers means it is useless for debuff clerics
Feedback:Feats:Piercing light: Piercing light could use a buff, bear your sins can be triggered by even 1 point in fire of the gods and 3 other powers, basicly it's not hard to get bear your sins and it's a debuff that will affect group, im not saying nerf it, im saying give piercing light some love.
This feat is actually bugged. It actually doesn't give the bonus it says it gives. Here is a hint: Put one point in it and look at your Resistance Ignored. Although yeah, after Rank 12 Bondings with Avenger Gear, this feat is completely useless.
Healer's lore, divine fortune, anointed armour all grant 150 of a stat, so in the best cases 0,75% of the effect of that stat.
Totally useless amounts of stats are all over the place (even in feats), and I agree that the dev should look into increasing these numbers drastically, or reworking them completely. Preferably reworking them completely.
Can they look at auto-targeting? It's generally bad but at the moment it is so buggy that it usually aims well past enemies.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
What I think cleric needs is a static DoT that continually hits enemies, just like CW has icy terrain and SW has pilar of power, I don't know, something similar that can actually proc enchantments and feats like plague fire or bear your sins.
Sunburst could work IF the damage and healing was increased more than +30%. honestly, 30% of very little is still very little. (not static, but yet an AOE DOT but then again, we would face the same dilemma as with divine glow. Devs can't or won't make enchantments and offensive feats ignore friendly targets when hit by a spell that damages targets and heals allies and thus... back to square one =/
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treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
@darthtzarr thx for the awesome response, i've seen a ton of people complaining about gwf unstopable, in this forum, reddit, youtube and ingame and i experience it too, probably it will be something like KF+MF, amenar fixed it in a few hours but we need to wait *sigh*.
The point of piercing light is to spare the 3k stats invested in armour penetration, if i as a DC need to deal DPS i will switch to Searing light if not i will switch to another power and have 3k more power/rec/crit/whatever, this in a perfect situation. It will be rare to happen because many enemies dont need the 30% so ideally this should work better combining with a 2k arm pen mount, the idea was trying not to ruin it's original concept and not pushing even 1 more power into DR debuff.
Actually MOST DC Powers have this weird AoE effect. Chains hitting 2 targets will actually grant 2 stacks to both targets.
Not just condamned, terriffying insight as well gets 2 stacks from chains of blazing light also from DG, sunburst all grant 2 or even 3 stacks, when preview is up i will try them for condemned.
I agree, Light of Divinity seems to heal for like a static (unaffected by power) 10% of your weapon damage or something miserable like that.
The best case i remember healing on a lvl 35 striker companion(that i dont know why has a extraordinary incoming healing) 1490 crit with rang 14 relic weapons at 10k power and it was being affected by power, still it's ridiculously low.
I honestly do not play a DC and I pretty much only play a gf.. my wife however does play a do cleric and she stopped with skt not because it was too hard to solo anything but simply because it was boring. You gave a damage increase of abt 30%to various encounters to ease their solo play but inadvertently didn't realize that Righteous DC never nèended any of this. Heck most of the dc's who did find solo play a lot longer is virtuous and faithful who went crazy on recovery instead of armpen. But while I support the need to solo equally for all classes I know that only a few of those encounters are really required for a DC to solo comfortably namely chains,daunting light, divine glow and sunburst. Righteous dc's have a easier time on solo play because they have a lot of damage increasing feats and so it would be better if that 30% increase would affect only virtous and faitful specs at their their 4th tier feats. Righteous is quite powerful and doesn't need this damage increase. A lot of ppl would end up pitchforking me as I have no business on the dc update as a gf but when the relevant gf class balance review is called out I have tons of things to mention on that thread, but as it stands I would love to see lesser used stuff being a part of the dc's tray as has the balance review done with the 3 other classes just preceeding this balance. i've already mentioned where divine armor fails to perform and I would like to see that addressed as well along with the power share.
I honestly do not play a DC and I pretty much only play a gf.. my wife however does play a do cleric and she stopped with skt not because it was too hard to solo anything but simply because it was boring. You gave a damage increase of abt 30%to various encounters to ease their solo play but inadvertently didn't realize that Righteous DC never nèended any of this.
Heck most of the dc's who did find solo play a lot longer is virtuous and faithful who went crazy on recovery instead of armpen. But while I support the need to solo equally for all classes I know that only a few of those encounters are really required for a DC to solo comfortably namely chains,daunting light, divine glow and sunburst. Righteous dc's have a easier time on solo play because they have a lot of damage increasing feats and so it would be better if that 30% increase would affect only virtous and faitful specs at their their 4th tier feats. Righteous is quite powerful and doesn't need this damage increase. A lot of ppl would end up pitchforking me as I have no business on the dc update as a gf but when the relevant gf class balance review is called out I have tons of things to mention on that thread, but as it stands I would love to see lesser used stuff being a part of the dc's tray as has the balance review done with the 3 other classes just preceeding this balance. i've already mentioned where divine armor fails to perform and I would like to see that addressed as well along with the power share.
No smart DCs are going to pitchfork you out of here. You are completely right. All of the righteous DCs are sitting here quietly staring in amazement secretly hoping that these changes go live, so that we can burn through content at even more alarming rates.
I personally just don't want to deal with the massive nerf directed at the Righteous tree after the devs finally figure out that Righteous has absolutely no trouble dealing damage to pve content. After they tone down Bilethorn/Lightning back down, these changes would likely make DCs a top contender for DPS charts.
As I said in my giant suggestion blob, I think that all of the useless DC feats (Templar's Domain anyone?) need reworked to deal damage after casting healing spells, instead of just increasing all damage by 30%
I honestly do not play a DC and I pretty much only play a gf.. my wife however does play a do cleric and she stopped with skt not because it was too hard to solo anything but simply because it was boring. You gave a damage increase of abt 30%to various encounters to ease their solo play but inadvertently didn't realize that Righteous DC never nèended any of this.
Heck most of the dc's who did find solo play a lot longer is virtuous and faithful who went crazy on recovery instead of armpen. But while I support the need to solo equally for all classes I know that only a few of those encounters are really required for a DC to solo comfortably namely chains,daunting light, divine glow and sunburst. Righteous dc's have a easier time on solo play because they have a lot of damage increasing feats and so it would be better if that 30% increase would affect only virtous and faitful specs at their their 4th tier feats. Righteous is quite powerful and doesn't need this damage increase. A lot of ppl would end up pitchforking me as I have no business on the dc update as a gf but when the relevant gf class balance review is called out I have tons of things to mention on that thread, but as it stands I would love to see lesser used stuff being a part of the dc's tray as has the balance review done with the 3 other classes just preceeding this balance. i've already mentioned where divine armor fails to perform and I would like to see that addressed as well along with the power share.
No smart DCs are going to pitchfork you out of here. You are completely right. All of the righteous DCs are sitting here quietly staring in amazement secretly hoping that these changes go live, so that we can burn through content at even more alarming rates.
I personally just don't want to deal with the massive nerf directed at the Righteous tree after the devs finally figure out that Righteous has absolutely no trouble dealing damage to pve content. After they tone down Bilethorn/Lightning back down, these changes would likely make DCs a top contender for DPS charts.
As I said in my giant suggestion blob, I think that all of the useless DC feats (Templar's Domain anyone?) need reworked to deal damage after casting healing spells, instead of just increasing all damage by 30%
Oh come on now. I've topped the paingiver charts on many occassions as a righteous DC, but that is ALWAYS because I outlevel/outgear/outeverything the players that I'm running the content with. And I think this is fine/wai. A 30% buff so I can further outdps is also fine imo.
Assuming close to comparable gear, I am left so far in the dust its not even funny. In a typical FBI run, it'll look something like:
Obviously arbitrary figures, but that seems to pretty consistent. I sometimes swap with the OP, and I COULD possibly make my personal dps more respectable if I used different power (daunting light for example), different personals (drop hastening light for divine fortune), or different dailies (drop AA for FS), but I would be doing so at the cost of the groups dps, slow down the run immensely, AND still be pretty low on the chart.
Upping these powers by 30% isnt REALLY necessary for righteous (I can do my dailies just fine and I dont particularly care about my DPS in groups), but it also won't change much on the paingiver charts. And this is talking about the DC's damage/buff path. Spec full into that for great buffs and last place on paingiver.
Upping these powers by 30% for virtuous and faithful (I know they are rare, but they do exist!)? That's very nice for them in terms of soloing, and will be virtually unnoticeable in groups.
TL;DR - Righteous, Virtuous, or Faithful; doesnt matter. A 30% DPS increase is no threat to the paingiver charts, and if it is, those DPS'ers need to step up their game.
" righteous DCs are sitting here quietly staring in amazement secretly hoping that these changes go live, so that we can burn through content at even more alarming rates. "
That is what clerics are for in this game at least. Lets all do more damage. And proc more buffs for others. Forget the healing. Forget protecting. Forget what being a cleric is all about. Lets just give clerics a HAMSTER warhammer and make them PALLY 2.0 without ability to heal. Just buffs and dps. It is not fair you know...
I cant heal people from getting one shot. I imagine after this MSVA and FBI will be fun to run. For 4 k people. It is not like other ILs are needed anyway.
Like moving from red will help people getting one shot.. from any of the bosses. I can't wait. Really. I bet tanks can't wait too! They are all so overpowered and will be able to take it. All of them . All the time. And the glass builds as well. Can't wait for them to start freaking out.
What makes me sad , you are all okay with this.
" HEY , lets buff damage, cos that will so help clerics to the hardest dungeons. "
it is not fair...you all hop on the nerf train and joyfully wave . Like HG will do so much ..or my " buffed " action point gain will help . Right..
We can just all respec right now and do something else.
Lets yell to nerf buffs next. Procs of powers on AA is overpowered. Lets nerf it. Clerics do not need it. Others do. I do not want to buff anyone any more. I want to HAMSTER heal cos i am a cleric. That is what clerics are here for, arent' they ?
I do not want to compete on a paingiver chart as a cleric. It is insulting.
What ever.. it does not matter what i think. Forum community decided it is what they want it.
Good luck with that.
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treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
As I said in my giant suggestion blob, I think that all of the useless DC feats (Templar's Domain anyone?) need reworked to deal damage after casting healing spells, instead of just increasing all damage by 30%
Too easy a righteous would easly get it as well, probably 1/2 chance to make it more restrict, but i dont disagree with it, as i see it @wintermulloc is right, if i am a righteous and my damage is 200, 30% increase in, lets say 60% of it would be 36, but if i am a faithfull and my damage is 100 i will get a 18 increase but lets not forget that it gives more freedom to dps by having some exterior heals to powers. Still i wounldn't like non dps trees to have more dps features, it kind of ruins the idea of it.
@dreadnaught#5263 , @asterdahl I have mentioned this in another post so please dont scream at me, the runts in sharandar do that all day already, they are really mean: Healing warmth and burning guidance being based on the heal with a minimum and a maximum.
But based on the biggest Heal of the last second of a singlular player:
Lets put things in perspective: OP Justice - Small heals, majorly triggering 5k/s but very maintained damage, divine call would propell a bigger healing burst, and it's not hard to say that this would go up with player stats, some powers that heal for very high amounts could actually have a place instead being all buff buff buff as it is now. OP light - Bigger heals, triggering more damage, still very maintained, divine call can easly pass the 300k heal, powers that heal by a lot in justice would heal even more, damage would go up with player stats as well.
DC Righteous: Praticly no healing so seeing a heal now and then it's a miracle (DC pun xD), in a party not so much but even assuming a continuous heal in a party by astral seal/dg it should not be very high, unless the DC turns up healing powers like bastion for example. And i doubt any DC with FoTG would go for burning guidance when endless consumption heals (with also all other sources of damage will heal) him/her up easly.
DC faithfull: Has a extra test of faith and gift of faith so much more probability of triggering the boons
DC virtuous: Small heals, in a group we can consider permanent the boons proc and not expect mountains of damage.
Now the big diference, for this to work well solo it needs to be set for the player also and have it's chance increased a lot, i wouldn't worry about pvp, 5k/second mitigated by everything wont hurt a flee, it's really necessary because getting a companion to proc these boons is not easy, even a defender one, and also players with augments wouldn't find it much funny not getting this boon.
This way paladins: Will have influence in groups, i hope not too much, certainly less than now and the now is too much, the damage will actually go up with stats, the full suport path of light may have a chance.
DCs: Have a more significant help in solo content.
I can't believe somebody would lose sleep over a damage increase for clerics, heh.
I run a Righteous buff/debuff spec and, even on good days, my damage is 1/6th of the output of a well-built dps class with near or equal ilvl. Out of all clerics I have met over the years, there are maybe two who play as pure dps in pve and I suspect that no amount of nerfing would make them play healers. The majority of Righteous clerics are probably debuffers, as it is a good path for that.
What that damage increase would mean to me personally is: 1) I can get my daily quests done a bit less slowly and 2) We can all leave that dungeon a bit faster. It isn't going to take away from healing, buffing, or debuffing, because I would still slot the exact same three encounters.
To be honest clerics can be of use as healers again if the community would move away from these glass cannon builds hiding behind a niche mitigation power like bubble or AA. If players would go back to balancing out their builds through boons/feats/enchants to be able to take a hit, whilst the party consists of a GF running KV and an OP running BO and SoF as well as Aura of protection. Between the 2 classes you have them soaking up almost 80% of incoming damage. Throw in a Trans Fey and some other abilities and you get great reduction to incoming damage. Most of the community is running with 20% DR and 20% Lifesteal which is great for soloing but in a group it would be better if people would ditch the Life steal for a full 40% DR and let other abilities like those mentioned by those tanks as well as Astral Shield from a DC, Circle of power, Pillar of power ect. get you to the 80% DR cap. We tested this exact set up in FBI and taking the hill was insanely easy. Set up was a GWF, SW, DC (Faith Cleric running HG and AS), Protection OP, GF running KV. The SW had a few deaths but for the most part all the damage was mitigated and easily healed by the cleric. The OP running Templars Wrath joked that a few boulders ate a bunch of his Temp HP but he was doing fine. The run was a bit longer than usual but it felt like it was in line with the content we were running.
I think we have become stubborn about changing our builds back to a more balanced off/def because we've all spent so much $$ breaking them since mod 6 and the introduction of the bubble. Paingiver has been chased so aggressively that even our tank classes are dropping DR in favor of damage builds. So I do agree with people who say things like 1 shots and Lifesteal broke the game, but I also believe the community helped. We got too hooked on bubbles and balls, while chasing that elusive pain giver trophy.
I can't believe somebody would lose sleep over a damage increase for clerics, heh.
I run a Righteous buff/debuff spec and, even on good days, my damage is 1/6th of the output of a well-built dps class with near or equal ilvl. Out of all clerics I have met over the years, there are maybe two who play as pure dps in pve and I suspect that no amount of nerfing would make them play healers. The majority of Righteous clerics are probably debuffers, as it is a good path for that.
What that damage increase would mean to me personally is: 1) I can get my daily quests done a bit less slowly and 2) We can all leave that dungeon a bit faster. It isn't going to take away from healing, buffing, or debuffing, because I would still slot the exact same three encounters.
It isn't really even the fact that they are increasing cleric damage. Even if Cleric suddenly starts topping DPS charts, it doesn't matter (unless they just go off and nerf righteous to compensate for giving clerics more damage). The issue I am seeing here is that Clerics have so many broken powers/feats/features that literally do not work, or do not work as intended (like they used to) that having nearly the entire list of changes be "We nerfed AA and increased your damage by a flat 30%" is kinda insulting. If they were to fix all (and I mean ALL) of the bugs (and I don't mean "we changed the tooltip to match the bug"), healing clerics wouldn't need +30% increased damage just to solo daily quests with our sanity intact.
To be honest, even a healing cleric should be able to solo all content super easy even without the +30% damage with the following things true for them:
Maxed armor pen (you just gotta do it)
Use DPS powers (I see too many run in with BoH, HW, and Sunburst)
Use a real weapon enchant (Flaming Enchant just doesn't cut it for DC)
Signature [WIP] - tyvm John
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited February 2017
I've been able to comfortably run a DC through any and all solo content (allowing hiccups for M6 bugs) since before their major feat rework (when current Righteous came about) using those basic principles. Soloing using Astral Shield for an encounter is another biggie; cast it and then scoot around in your magic circle while trying to at-will the giants to death. Just don't.
I'm fine with the geared DCs saying lolarmorpen when I have THE POWUH if they're comfortable with it. It's still inadvisable for anyone starting out to take this approach. It drives me absolutely up the wall when I see someone with no armor pen insisting they are utterly incapable of doing their dailies without someone to carry them, because it strongly suggests they are incompetent. Teach a man to fish, I say. You can't fix bad players by buffing a class.
None of this is to say I object to overall damage increases for powers or would object to a few more like Brand, but fixing the bugs and useless stuff needs to be a priority.
+increase to DPS is good for non-Righteous clerics. It's horrible for those types. But the question, is there really enough reason to play non-Righteous.
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putzboy78Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,950Arc User
i think the 30% dps increase is easier than fixing all the broken stuff. I'm not sure people understand what's really happening here, they are nerfing DC in a couple of weeks regardless. They are doing their best to meet the world half way with an easy/cheap fix. They are not going to rapidly fix the dc. In fact my guess is most or the man hours are being saved under the umbrella of pending a full class re-balance. This is just a change to get AA off the rage threads and to dial up the content difficulty. Put your wish list of changes here and hope they get consideration for the rebalance but getting all worked up about it won't change anything meaningful.
And yes if the man hours were available I'm sure they would take the approach of givine DC 30% more damage when solo instead of a blanket 30% more dps. 30% more dps will not put DCs on the top of paingiver so don't worry about the ego's of those who measure themselves by it, your position will be safe.
The only things i request are rework all those useless and pointless feats and power, increase the aoe and cast animation of daunting light since now most mob collision size is big but the size of aoe is too small to hit more than two even well targeted, and because of empowered effect not apply on daunting light due to slow animation.
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ichimaruginxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 230Arc User
Looks like most player are fine with the next AC/DC meta at 20k recovery, doublespamming dailies like HG/AA all time. I look forward for the next 2 years of crying about missing build diversity, congrats.
About the HG Change: Actually it is possible even now to stack HG+AA as a AC DC. So I can imagine the hell when HG can get AP but is on CD. The AC DCs unlike DOs, can spam AA when HG is on CD, and do BOTH dailies when it's off... imagine having double buffs! How could the poor DOs compete then we our MAIN daily buff is on a laughable CD? This is just further pushing AC DC as the 'meta' and making DO DCs obscure. Totally agreeing with you mate.
TL:DR, I think the change to HG is a direct nerf on HG which is already not as good as AA as of now, since it cannot be spammed for 100% uptime. Thus, making it also an indirect nerf on DO DCs..
Solutions:
Revert the HG change, put AP gain cap on AA when it's ongoing like with HG if you are afraid AC DCs will spam both.
Buff DO DC specific dailies in terms of "Buffs". We are not a Tanky defensive path, that's AC! Let HoF give a bit of buff to allies whenever it's used, because HoF is pretty crappy atm. Thus we can use it when HG is on CD. Not everyone needs the DA mitigation.
i think the 30% dps increase is easier than fixing all the broken stuff. I'm not sure people understand what's really happening here, they are nerfing DC in a couple of weeks regardless. They are doing their best to meet the world half way with an easy/cheap fix. They are not going to rapidly fix the dc. In fact my guess is most or the man hours are being saved under the umbrella of pending a full class re-balance. This is just a change to get AA off the rage threads and to dial up the content difficulty. Put your wish list of changes here and hope they get consideration for the rebalance but getting all worked up about it won't change anything meaningful.
And yes if the man hours were available I'm sure they would take the approach of givine DC 30% more damage when solo instead of a blanket 30% more dps. 30% more dps will not put DCs on the top of paingiver so don't worry about the ego's of those who measure themselves by it, your position will be safe.
I think they are just gonna make DC even more unbalanced But yeah, halfway and cheap solutions sound like them
This might be a non issue since the DC community is shrinking. Most parties struggle to find 1 DC to run content never mind 2.)
So analyze that, if you think the DC community is shrinking, what is causing the shrink? If a class shrinks faster than the remaining population of a game is it
1) The mechanics are not fun (I've argued that the divinity over time mechanic less daily's of DO makes it more enjoyable than AC) 2) Is it unrewarding? I've mentioned that the game rewards kill speed not group composition or mission completion. Especially when you consider the most rewarding thing you can do in the game is proc your Dragon Hoards, Quartermasters, and Fey Blessings) and almost all specialty events encourage killing for mob drops. 3) Is it that most gamers are self-centered and need to see their names on the tops of paingiver to validate their effort?
So what would you say is the root cause?
1. Healing is dead. From the moment a boss can one HAMSTER hit you . 2. Slow progress through the mods. I wonder why that is. Just take a look at how much time you need to complete a few dailies in this new mod. Btw it is a great mod. But i was a full healer / buff spec. 3. Lets all focus on the paingiver chart now and antagonize everyone . Cos that is what people are doing and how much clerics are worth. Nothing. Just like DO clerics where ignored for most of the runs in MSVA and FBI cos they are not needed . Now AC DC will not be needed as well. Big deal , right ?
4. MSVA ? FBI ? CN ? Pug groups ? You can forget about it. How rewarding will it be now, to run a dungeon , wiping along the way cos people do not know how to play their own characters. Just to get to the end chest and get a HAMSTER helmet worth 4.4 k ? Yea .. no thank you. I regret now doing last few mods. And going AC DC for last 4 mods.
You can expect a lot more DC's quiting after this change. I am sure people will have great fun in doing FB with just DO clerics.
I can only speak for myself why I opted not to play DC... reading these forums and in-game, when you see that high levels don't need that much healing, it kind of takes half the fun out of it for me.
It was not just you. It was half of the cleric community. Except the dps clerics. You will see many more of them when this change goes live.
moaning on the forums about how "they" should be nerfed because "me!" You see what I'm getting at?
I expect much more moaning after this change. When people figure out how much they where counting on AA, before . And how hard it will be to do any of the dungeons now. For a peridot on the end as a big reward. So rewarding.
To be honest clerics can be of use as healers again if the community would move away from these glass cannon builds hiding behind a niche mitigation power like bubble or AA. If players would go back to balancing out their builds through boons/feats/enchants to be able to take a hit, whilst the party consists of a GF running KV and an OP running BO and SoF as well as Aura of protection. Between the 2 classes you have them soaking up almost 80% of incoming damage. Throw in a Trans Fey and some other abilities and you get great reduction to incoming damage. Most of the community is running with 20% DR and 20% Lifesteal which is great for soloing but in a group it would be better if people would ditch the Life steal for a full 40% DR and let other abilities like those mentioned by those tanks as well as Astral Shield from a DC, Circle of power, Pillar of power ect. get you to the 80% DR cap. We tested this exact set up in FBI and taking the hill was insanely easy. Set up was a GWF, SW, DC (Faith Cleric running HG and AS), Protection OP, GF running KV. The SW had a few deaths but for the most part all the damage was mitigated and easily healed by the cleric. The OP running Templars Wrath joked that a few boulders ate a bunch of his Temp HP but he was doing fine. The run was a bit longer than usual but it felt like it was in line with the content we were running.
I think we have become stubborn about changing our builds back to a more balanced off/def because we've all spent so much $$ breaking them since mod 6 and the introduction of the bubble. Paingiver has been chased so aggressively that even our tank classes are dropping DR in favor of damage builds. So I do agree with people who say things like 1 shots and Lifesteal broke the game, but I also believe the community helped. We got too hooked on bubbles and balls, while chasing that elusive pain giver trophy.
Yea... no . Damage comes first for 50 % of the community. I mean just look at the all mighty 4 k's doing MSVA. Do they move from red >? No. Do they run away with the red circle ? No. Do they get people out of the ice ? No. They are all mighty. They do not need others. Just themselfs and the first place on the paingiver chart. It is all that matters. And if you for one second think that anything else actually maters , you are wrong. If you think that will change by AA nerf , you are wrong. It just means more failed runs. Even freaking pallies are going for it. " I am not a tank i am a dps " , " I do not want to tank Demi , i am going to run around doing damage cos that is what i want. "
It isn't really even the fact that they are increasing cleric damage. Even if Cleric suddenly starts topping DPS charts, it doesn't matter (unless they just go off and nerf righteous to compensate for giving clerics more damage). The issue I am seeing here is that Clerics have so many broken powers/feats/features that literally do not work, or do not work as intended (like they used to) that having nearly the entire list of changes be "We nerfed AA and increased your damage by a flat 30%" is kinda insulting. If they were to fix all (and I mean ALL) of the bugs (and I don't mean "we changed the tooltip to match the bug"), healing clerics wouldn't need +30% increased damage just to solo daily quests with our sanity intact.
I've been able to comfortably run a DC through any and all solo content (allowing hiccups for M6 bugs) since before their major feat rework (when current Righteous came about) using those basic principles. Soloing using Astral Shield for an encounter is another biggie; cast it and then scoot around in your magic circle while trying to at-will the giants to death. Just don't.
I'm fine with the geared DCs saying lolarmorpen when I have THE POWUH if they're comfortable with it. It's still inadvisable for anyone starting out to take this approach. It drives me absolutely up the wall when I see someone with no armor pen insisting they are utterly incapable of doing their dailies without someone to carry them, because it strongly suggests they are incompetent. Teach a man to fish, I say. You can't fix bad players by buffing a class.
None of this is to say I object to overall damage increases for powers or would object to a few more like Brand, but fixing the bugs and useless stuff needs to be a priority.
Becky , you are here for a long time. You know exactly how this will go.
Yes most clerics do not stack Armor pen. Instead of 45 k of power i sacrificed 20 k to evenly distribute it , between recovery / defense / armor pen and crit.
But let me ask you something. Does that even matter ? You know how many bad / new / and alts who have no idea what they are doing - players there is on the servers. You play every day. Including guildies and alliance guys. So now i am going to have to pay for their mistakes? Cos they arent capable or playing their class correctly ? Will i have to spend hours at the time time in dungeons to finish a run that is supposed to be 20 minutes ? You know what this means.
They will just find something else to pressure clerics to use, it seems that something is going to be HG now instead of AA. Did anything really change with this change ? We will get 30 % more damage ? This does not help me at all in surviving after my tank goes down like a hamster cos he missed a button. Or my main dps playing a god and getting one shot at a dragon turtle. Or etc..
Comments
(*this does not pertain to all. There's been a lot of good criticism amongst the die hard DO cries. )
I would like to see the DO be buffed in other ways to compete with AC that have nothing to do with that stupid Daily ability. Like buff Foresight another 10% so it's a real buff to party mitigation. Make Terifying insight a party wide buff. Fix PoD and give it a slight buff as well. (Keep in mind, the stronger you buff DO the more incentive parties have to run 2x clerics to stack the buffs from both paragons. This might be a non issue since the DC community is shrinking. Most parties struggle to find 1 DC to run content never mind 2.)
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Maybe you're just playing dumb to how much damage this daily... is capable of providing. Should anything be allowed to do so much?
And compare the two dailies, one is so much more superior to the point that it's not even funny.
1) The mechanics are not fun (I've argued that the divinity over time mechanic less daily's of DO makes it more enjoyable than AC)
2) Is it unrewarding? I've mentioned that the game rewards kill speed not group composition or mission completion. Especially when you consider the most rewarding thing you can do in the game is proc your Dragon Hoards, Quartermasters, and Fey Blessings) and almost all specialty events encourage killing for mob drops.
3) Is it that most gamers are self-centered and need to see their names on the tops of paingiver to validate their effort?
So what would you say is the root cause?
From what I gathered from reading other people's posts, some ideas I like are making other paragon paths viable by working on skill trees, would love to see more varied builds than involve more damage mitigation/prepping BEFORE a hit (kind of like scholar in ffxiv).
Healing devalorized;
Divinity build up constantly interupted;
Slow cast on some powers;
2) It's definitivly worth as a only pug player DC's are the concept of heaven and in my case geting enchats from utility slots is easy.
3) No, most of the times i dont even bother checking paingiver, it's just a number and does not express your worth but plenty of the players i find mention/give more attention to it, not to offend anyone but if make a % of the distriution of females in the game you'll see the % that play healer is much bigger than that % in males because of simply that number and males are more competitive so even a non dps would like to see the name in the paingiver, the correct would be give it to them? No. Valorize field medic, yes.How? No idea.
People rolled a DC because they wanted to primarily Heal the party while providing buffs or damage as a secondary. This game has killed the need for a dedicated healer leaving only secondary abilities. Buff or Damage. Which would you say is more rewarding to the average player? We haven't done competitive level damage since pre mod 5 leaving us as party buffs. AC does that waaaaaay better than DO. Which leaves AC clerics completely bored and DO clerics super salty. That's in my theory what's making the DC an undesirable class. Don't get me wrong, I have a DC. He is a DPS focused AC cleric. My AA spamming is for me to up my DPS past what I could do when I was DO. I'm happy with the changes coming our way. Honestly I was sick of people requesting AA because they didn't want to dodge or play with any mitigation of their own just full on glass cannons screaming "where's balls!"
@beckylunatic no I don't live under a rock. I read the forums and I'm active in almost all class communities as I enjoy theory crafting builds not just for myself on my GWF and DC but for my friends as well. Maybe it's because Lia and Laz ushered so many sheep GWF into the promise land of Destroyer heaven at a time when we crawled out of the obscurity of nerfdom post mod 3 changes all the way to mod 6 that kept the backlash to a dull roar. My point is that every class has that one paragon and one path that is dominant for that meta. So the Righteous AC cleric is the new Trapper HR, Damnation SW, Destroyer SM GWF, Protection OP, Tactician GF (currently conqueror gf), MoF CW, MI TR.. You know what I mean? I completely agree with the nerf to AA, hell I think they could roll the power share down to 25% given the stupid bonding stones feature. My only issue with this thread and most threads in this whiny community is the "nerf that because I play this and refuse to change" mentality. Do you have any idea how much money I've spent on race re rolls and respec's on my characters over the past 2 years on console because of massive class balances with no test server to test your build? This game changes a lot, and often, and you have to roll with those changes. If you do it's more rewarding and keeps you interested in the class if you don't you risk obscurity and ride the bench instead of getting picked up in groups, leading to a life of pissing and moaning on the forums about how "they" should be nerfed because "me!" You see what I'm getting at?
Feedback:Powers:Searing light:
Searing light – Arm pen on empowered is not good, in pve, even if i have a build that focus my damage on searing light empowered the Arm pen i dont invest in order to get the 60% will likelly make my damage output lesser because of the sum of all other powers. Not just the arm pen is in most cases of no use also the damage is very low when comparing to chains of blazing light foe example, while in theory having searing light would spare a healing power, because of divinity mode, in practice that doesn't hapen because it's very restrict.
Sugestion:
Empowered: By each divinity stack increases your arm penetration by 10% for 2/4/6. seconds;
Divinity mode: Heal increase from 15% to 30%.
Feedback:Powers:Sacred flame:
Sacred flame is weak, dps is lower than lance of faith, divinity generated lower and no multi target final damage, the temp hp granted is very very small.
Bug:Sacred flame
Sacred flame 3rd hit is hitting allies with aura of courage (i had aura of courage + vengeance using a plaguefire);
Feedback:Powers:Daunting light:
Daunting light:: Extremly good DPS but area extemly small to match the damage, many many times it fails to hit the target.
Feedback:Powers:Prophecy of doom:
Prophecy of doom: Very slow cast time, many people dont use it for this reason, casting will case problems somewhere else, being controled or delay the return to the rotation, delaying divinity generation therefore party protection/ buffs.
Feedback:Powers:Astral Shield
Astral Shield – In pve this power is good, but not an overhaul, however in pvp the damage mitigation provides will easly make all the enemy attacks hit for 0, even if we think “but that's ok, other powers can heal allies up very easly if im really good healer”, the damage the hole team would take during Astral shield duration is superior the the heals easly, specially because of healing depression.
Feedback:Powers:Warding flare
Warding flare – The temp HP provided by this power is very small, when comparing with astral shield, the normal/empowered mode, not even in a 1vs1 situation in pvp. I guess the power was designed to protect heavly 1 target but we cannot manually define wich target we want to be protected.
Feedback:Powers:Geas
Geas-.....praticly no use anywhere.
Bug:Break the spirit:
Break the spirit is granting condemned in a area inspite of being a single target abbility.
Feedback: Class features:Terryfiing insight:
Terryfiing insight – Anointed champion has the abbillity to cast Hallowed ground and AA at the same time increasing party damage by x power and still buff their damage with HG, Divine oracle can instead use other daillie but usually faster kill, safer kill, this is a very small change but a very important one in my opinion: Instead each stack of terrifing insight granting 2% DR debuff on the target, increase 1% DR debuff and increase DC damage by 1%, this should make it always usefull in pvp and pve.
Feedback: Class features:Light of divinity:
Light of divinity – The heal provided by this CF is very low.
Feedback: Class features:Light of divinity:
Soothe: Praticly no use, if your intention in this CF remains i think that att least the off hand class feature should work differently.
Feedback: Class features:Anointed action:
Anointed action is very short powerfull, yet barelly gives time to react.
Feedback:Feats:Piercing light:
Piercing light could use a buff, bear your sins can be triggered by even 1 point in fire of the gods and 3 other powers, basicly it's not hard to get bear your sins and it's a debuff that will affect group, im not saying nerf it, im saying give piercing light some love.
Feedback:Feats:Living fire and final acts:
If a faithfull choses these feats they will be praticly never active.
Feedback:Artifact bonus:
Healer's lore, divine fortune, anointed armour all grant 150 of a stat, so in the best cases 0,75% of the effect of that stat.
Anointed holy simbol only activates in some encounters.
Someone mentioned the lack of CC and Damage resist for DC's, i agree, for a DC to get CC resist need huge amount of deflect or a elven battle and the dodge mechanic consumes a lot of stamina, unlike CW's DC rellies a lot on at wills to refill divinity that gets not easy with all pvp CC so the best way to handle it is class wide, probably this way:
If the dc has no divinity chanelling non divinity will break CC and keep the imnunity for 3 seconds;
If the DC has divinity chanelling non divinity will reduce the CC by % based on the missin g divinity 3 seconds.
Cooldown 10 seconds.
Chanelling divinity will give to the DC temp hit points based on missing health equal at most to 30% of DC full HP at 0 health.
Cooldown 10 seconds.
Signature [WIP] - tyvm John
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
Sunburst could work IF the damage and healing was increased more than +30%. honestly, 30% of very little is still very little. (not static, but yet an AOE DOT
but then again, we would face the same dilemma as with divine glow. Devs can't or won't make enchantments and offensive feats ignore friendly targets when hit by a spell that damages targets and heals allies and thus... back to square one =/
The point of piercing light is to spare the 3k stats invested in armour penetration, if i as a DC need to deal DPS i will switch to Searing light if not i will switch to another power and have 3k more power/rec/crit/whatever, this in a perfect situation. It will be rare to happen because many enemies dont need the 30% so ideally this should work better combining with a 2k arm pen mount, the idea was trying not to ruin it's original concept and not pushing even 1 more power into DR debuff. Not just condamned, terriffying insight as well gets 2 stacks from chains of blazing light also from DG, sunburst all grant 2 or even 3 stacks, when preview is up i will try them for condemned. The best case i remember healing on a lvl 35 striker companion(that i dont know why has a extraordinary incoming healing) 1490 crit with rang 14 relic weapons at 10k power and it was being affected by power, still it's ridiculously low.
Heck most of the dc's who did find solo play a lot longer is virtuous and faithful who went crazy on recovery instead of armpen. But while I support the need to solo equally for all classes I know that only a few of those encounters are really required for a DC to solo comfortably namely chains,daunting light, divine glow and sunburst. Righteous dc's have a easier time on solo play because they have a lot of damage increasing feats and so it would be better if that 30% increase would affect only virtous and faitful specs at their their 4th tier feats. Righteous is quite powerful and doesn't need this damage increase. A lot of ppl would end up pitchforking me as I have no business on the dc update as a gf but when the relevant gf class balance review is called out I have tons of things to mention on that thread, but as it stands I would love to see lesser used stuff being a part of the dc's tray as has the balance review done with the 3 other classes just preceeding this balance. i've already mentioned where divine armor fails to perform and I would like to see that addressed as well along with the power share.
I personally just don't want to deal with the massive nerf directed at the Righteous tree after the devs finally figure out that Righteous has absolutely no trouble dealing damage to pve content. After they tone down Bilethorn/Lightning back down, these changes would likely make DCs a top contender for DPS charts.
As I said in my giant suggestion blob, I think that all of the useless DC feats (Templar's Domain anyone?) need reworked to deal damage after casting healing spells, instead of just increasing all damage by 30%
@wintermurloc
Signature [WIP] - tyvm John
Assuming close to comparable gear, I am left so far in the dust its not even funny. In a typical FBI run, it'll look something like:
HR: 350,000,000
GWF: 320,000,000
CW: 280,000,000
OP: 105,000,000
DC: 95,000,000
Obviously arbitrary figures, but that seems to pretty consistent. I sometimes swap with the OP, and I COULD possibly make my personal dps more respectable if I used different power (daunting light for example), different personals (drop hastening light for divine fortune), or different dailies (drop AA for FS), but I would be doing so at the cost of the groups dps, slow down the run immensely, AND still be pretty low on the chart.
Upping these powers by 30% isnt REALLY necessary for righteous (I can do my dailies just fine and I dont particularly care about my DPS in groups), but it also won't change much on the paingiver charts. And this is talking about the DC's damage/buff path. Spec full into that for great buffs and last place on paingiver.
Upping these powers by 30% for virtuous and faithful (I know they are rare, but they do exist!)? That's very nice for them in terms of soloing, and will be virtually unnoticeable in groups.
TL;DR - Righteous, Virtuous, or Faithful; doesnt matter. A 30% DPS increase is no threat to the paingiver charts, and if it is, those DPS'ers need to step up their game.
That is what clerics are for in this game at least.
Lets all do more damage. And proc more buffs for others.
Forget the healing. Forget protecting. Forget what being a cleric is all about. Lets just give clerics a HAMSTER warhammer and make them PALLY 2.0 without ability to heal.
Just buffs and dps.
It is not fair you know...
I cant heal people from getting one shot.
I imagine after this MSVA and FBI will be fun to run. For 4 k people.
It is not like other ILs are needed anyway.
Like moving from red will help people getting one shot.. from any of the bosses. I can't wait. Really.
I bet tanks can't wait too! They are all so overpowered and will be able to take it. All of them . All the time.
And the glass builds as well. Can't wait for them to start freaking out.
What makes me sad , you are all okay with this.
" HEY , lets buff damage, cos that will so help clerics to the hardest dungeons. "
it is not fair...you all hop on the nerf train and joyfully wave .
Like HG will do so much ..or my " buffed " action point gain will help . Right..
We can just all respec right now and do something else.
Lets yell to nerf buffs next. Procs of powers on AA is overpowered. Lets nerf it. Clerics do not need it. Others do.
I do not want to buff anyone any more. I want to HAMSTER heal cos i am a cleric. That is what clerics are here for, arent' they ?
I do not want to compete on a paingiver chart as a cleric. It is insulting.
What ever.. it does not matter what i think.
Forum community decided it is what they want it.
Good luck with that.
@dreadnaught#5263 , @asterdahl
I have mentioned this in another post so please dont scream at me, the runts in sharandar do that all day already, they are really mean:
Healing warmth and burning guidance being based on the heal with a minimum and a maximum.
But based on the biggest Heal of the last second of a singlular player:
Something like:
Heal < 10k: Damage = 5k/s (1,5k from burning guidance, 4,5k from healingh warmth)
Heal>10k: Damage = 5k + heal/10
Heal>300k: Damage = 35k/s
Lets put things in perspective:
OP Justice - Small heals, majorly triggering 5k/s but very maintained damage, divine call would propell a bigger healing burst, and it's not hard to say that this would go up with player stats, some powers that heal for very high amounts could actually have a place instead being all buff buff buff as it is now.
OP light - Bigger heals, triggering more damage, still very maintained, divine call can easly pass the 300k heal, powers that heal by a lot in justice would heal even more, damage would go up with player stats as well.
DC Righteous: Praticly no healing so seeing a heal now and then it's a miracle (DC pun xD), in a party not so much but even assuming a continuous heal in a party by astral seal/dg it should not be very high, unless the DC turns up healing powers like bastion for example. And i doubt any DC with FoTG would go for burning guidance when endless consumption heals (with also all other sources of damage will heal) him/her up easly.
DC faithfull: Has a extra test of faith and gift of faith so much more probability of triggering the boons
DC virtuous: Small heals, in a group we can consider permanent the boons proc and not expect mountains of damage.
Now the big diference, for this to work well solo it needs to be set for the player also and have it's chance increased a lot, i wouldn't worry about pvp, 5k/second mitigated by everything wont hurt a flee, it's really necessary because getting a companion to proc these boons is not easy, even a defender one, and also players with augments wouldn't find it much funny not getting this boon.
This way paladins: Will have influence in groups, i hope not too much, certainly less than now and the now is too much, the damage will actually go up with stats, the full suport path of light may have a chance.
DCs: Have a more significant help in solo content.
I run a Righteous buff/debuff spec and, even on good days, my damage is 1/6th of the output of a well-built dps class with near or equal ilvl. Out of all clerics I have met over the years, there are maybe two who play as pure dps in pve and I suspect that no amount of nerfing would make them play healers. The majority of Righteous clerics are probably debuffers, as it is a good path for that.
What that damage increase would mean to me personally is: 1) I can get my daily quests done a bit less slowly and 2) We can all leave that dungeon a bit faster. It isn't going to take away from healing, buffing, or debuffing, because I would still slot the exact same three encounters.
I think we have become stubborn about changing our builds back to a more balanced off/def because we've all spent so much $$ breaking them since mod 6 and the introduction of the bubble. Paingiver has been chased so aggressively that even our tank classes are dropping DR in favor of damage builds. So I do agree with people who say things like 1 shots and Lifesteal broke the game, but I also believe the community helped. We got too hooked on bubbles and balls, while chasing that elusive pain giver trophy.
To be honest, even a healing cleric should be able to solo all content super easy even without the +30% damage with the following things true for them:
Signature [WIP] - tyvm John
I'm fine with the geared DCs saying lolarmorpen when I have THE POWUH if they're comfortable with it. It's still inadvisable for anyone starting out to take this approach. It drives me absolutely up the wall when I see someone with no armor pen insisting they are utterly incapable of doing their dailies without someone to carry them, because it strongly suggests they are incompetent. Teach a man to fish, I say. You can't fix bad players by buffing a class.
None of this is to say I object to overall damage increases for powers or would object to a few more like Brand, but fixing the bugs and useless stuff needs to be a priority.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
And yes if the man hours were available I'm sure they would take the approach of givine DC 30% more damage when solo instead of a blanket 30% more dps. 30% more dps will not put DCs on the top of paingiver so don't worry about the ego's of those who measure themselves by it, your position will be safe.
About the HG Change:
Actually it is possible even now to stack HG+AA as a AC DC. So I can imagine the hell when HG can get AP but is on CD. The AC DCs unlike DOs, can spam AA when HG is on CD, and do BOTH dailies when it's off... imagine having double buffs! How could the poor DOs compete then we our MAIN daily buff is on a laughable CD?
This is just further pushing AC DC as the 'meta' and making DO DCs obscure. Totally agreeing with you mate.
TL:DR, I think the change to HG is a direct nerf on HG which is already not as good as AA as of now, since it cannot be spammed for 100% uptime. Thus, making it also an indirect nerf on DO DCs..
Solutions:
- Revert the HG change, put AP gain cap on AA when it's ongoing like with HG if you are afraid AC DCs will spam both.
- Buff DO DC specific dailies in terms of "Buffs". We are not a Tanky defensive path, that's AC! Let HoF give a bit of buff to allies whenever it's used, because HoF is pretty crappy atm. Thus we can use it when HG is on CD. Not everyone needs the DA mitigation.
And +1 on useless feat changes!Join Now! - Infernal Paragons , The Infernal Alliance
Join Now! - Infernal Paragons , The Infernal Alliance
2. Slow progress through the mods. I wonder why that is. Just take a look at how much time you need to complete a few dailies in this new mod. Btw it is a great mod. But i was a full healer / buff spec.
3. Lets all focus on the paingiver chart now and antagonize everyone . Cos that is what people are doing and how much clerics are worth. Nothing. Just like DO clerics where ignored for most of the runs in MSVA and FBI cos they are not needed . Now AC DC will not be needed as well. Big deal , right ?
4. MSVA ? FBI ? CN ? Pug groups ? You can forget about it. How rewarding will it be now, to run a dungeon , wiping along the way cos people do not know how to play their own characters. Just to get to the end chest and get a HAMSTER helmet worth 4.4 k ? Yea .. no thank you. I regret now doing last few mods. And going AC DC for last 4 mods.
You can expect a lot more DC's quiting after this change.
I am sure people will have great fun in doing FB with just DO clerics. It was not just you. It was half of the cleric community.
Except the dps clerics. You will see many more of them when this change goes live. I expect much more moaning after this change. When people figure out how much they where counting on AA, before . And how hard it will be to do any of the dungeons now. For a peridot on the end as a big reward.
So rewarding.
Yea... no .
Damage comes first for 50 % of the community.
I mean just look at the all mighty 4 k's doing MSVA.
Do they move from red >? No.
Do they run away with the red circle ? No.
Do they get people out of the ice ? No.
They are all mighty. They do not need others. Just themselfs and the first place on the paingiver chart.
It is all that matters.
And if you for one second think that anything else actually maters , you are wrong. If you think that will change by AA nerf , you are wrong. It just means more failed runs.
Even freaking pallies are going for it. " I am not a tank i am a dps " , " I do not want to tank Demi , i am going to run around doing damage cos that is what i want. "
This. Becky , you are here for a long time.
You know exactly how this will go.
Yes most clerics do not stack Armor pen.
Instead of 45 k of power i sacrificed 20 k to evenly distribute it , between recovery / defense / armor pen and crit.
But let me ask you something. Does that even matter ?
You know how many bad / new / and alts who have no idea what they are doing - players there is on the servers. You play every day. Including guildies and alliance guys.
So now i am going to have to pay for their mistakes? Cos they arent capable or playing their class correctly ?
Will i have to spend hours at the time time in dungeons to finish a run that is supposed to be 20 minutes ?
You know what this means.
They will just find something else to pressure clerics to use, it seems that something is going to be HG now instead of AA.
Did anything really change with this change ?
We will get 30 % more damage ? This does not help me at all in surviving after my tank goes down like a hamster cos he missed a button. Or my main dps playing a god and getting one shot at a dragon turtle. Or etc..