Mitigation/protection? This. Dc should meaningfully support the tank in protecting the group. You didn't get the balance right so far. [...] As for the new aa...the mitigation will do a flying hamster now especially in new content... [...] So I am not satisfied with the changes...it' s not good enough. Playing the cleric can't be all about buff-bottery, mediocre dps (even with 30% more) and otherwise just look pretty >:( I say BLEH to that! Thumbs down.
I tend to agree with you about mitigation. I've tried to propose a quick and dirty solution for it in an attempt to resurrect the virtuous path. However I'm curious to see how some tanks may want to adapt, because that will be one of the consequences of these changes.
Oltreverso guild leader Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
Terrifying Insight buffs entire party. Why not just make Anointed Armor affect party as well? Wouldn't be half bad for most melee have some deflect investment.
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treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
edited February 2017
Terryfing insight is hard to stack above 5 stacks in single target because the stacks are not like the most of all other stacks they are independent so in average in single target i get 5 stacks. I like this change, it will throw some buffs over whatever the tree is so righteous is not superior to faithfull/virtuous on this.
Can final acts receive the same treatment as living fire?
Anointed action: I dont know how drunk i was when i said the damage bonus of this class feature is good, it is awefull, 13,32% more damage for 5 seconds, and also it's counterpart 13.32% more DR for 5 seconds, the time to cast anything worth (appart from flame strike second hit....that it's buffed already anyway) is very small, for a DC to mantain that buff for half of the time it is already a big prowess, this CF need at least 0,5 seconds more uptime per rank (that would be 6,5*1,2 = 7.8 with the feat).
Prophecy of doom really needs visual rework, it may be more expensive but it's one of those cases where it really needs to be fixed, something like arms of Arms of Hadar was.
Light of divinity may work with things that i dont know of like prism but i think it would be interesting to have a meaning of it's own and heal for a relevant amount.
Searight light the original 2' cylinder for the non divinity mode is very restricting.
AA since anointed army has been nerfed in the amount of power shared, to make this power more viable to players with still low ap gain (even to players with high ap gain), instead 8 seconds base duration not getting hit, something like 12, this dailly power cannot stack the same DC power twice so i dont think it's a problem.
Unbreakable devotion seems not be working at all (inspite of appearing in the screen), if it is granting the shield only the first time (give and hold for 6 seconds) then it's a very weak feat, if it's not being buffed by anything, it is as well weak.
So optimally (this is my opinion) it would give the target a stackable shield up to 300% dc weapon damage, 866 (legendary current best weapon) * 6 = 5196, multiplied by HoT bonuses and DC outgoing healing bonuses, gif of life, virtue gift and desperate restoration, power, etc. If that results in 3* multiplier and the shield goes up to 15 588, active only 6 out of 20 seconds, seems perfectly fine to me, i thought about player base HP but that would mean the DC protecting less weak players that are oftenly the ones that need the most.
Virtue Gift: Usually the DC is either lower than 50% HP because has been shot heavly or at 100% HP because of so fast healing this feat makes little sence, more correct would be something like : 90%/80%/70%/60%/50%.
I am liking the changes, giving more choices to people, i dont want to get people mad at me....but now every experient DC uses break the spirit as the boost it gives to the DC + the damage reduction + party boost is the best choice and almost the best dps choice for the DC, nothing will change if it doesn't get some attention, plis no hate i just want to see more things viable.
2 things that still need a buff:
Healer's lore, divine fortune, anointed armour off hand artifact boost. Sacred flame.
A problem related to DC that have a big impact: Prism and beacon of hope: These powers are a too good healing compponent from paladins many times completly nullifying the need of healing, in the case of a temptation SW heals are provided to the party at a cost of dps (or as the definition stands), however a paladin can and will take these powers at almost no cost unlike a protection paladin that takes the light path that sacrifices damage over healing being often worse healer than a justice paladin with the feats mentioned above. Prism is the worst case because of life steal and it's long duration, the OP life steals passing that to prism.
I must not be understanding how AA is going to supposedly work. At rank 4 each bubble has a max 20% damage absorption. I assume it dissappears after a hit (each DoT?) now the power share has been reduced, which I'm okay with.
I'm not seeing why I would use AA anymore. Stopping 20% of a 200k+ hit does <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> all for mitigation. Sure there is Astral Shield which will only help if the player doesn't have max DR anyway. Why would I take this version of AA over the new DO improvements especially TI? Only because I want to I suppose.
I know that AA got broke and needed a fix, but this is a huge nerf in my opinion - unless I'm misunderstanding how is going to work. In fact a big enough nerf that I anticipate parties looking for DO TI and ACDC can gtfo. Maybe I'm wrong and maybe some combos of things will save the ACDC mitigation build but I don't see it... Yet.
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treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
I must not be understanding how AA is going to supposedly work. At rank 4 each bubble has a max 20% damage absorption. I assume it dissappears after a hit (each DoT?) now the power share has been reduced, which I'm okay with.
I'm not seeing why I would use AA anymore. Stopping 20% of a 200k+ hit does HAMSTER all for mitigation. Sure there is Astral Shield which will only help if the player doesn't have max DR anyway. Why would I take this version of AA over the new DO improvements especially TI? Only because I want to I suppose.
I know that AA got broke and needed a fix, but this is a huge nerf in my opinion - unless I'm misunderstanding how is going to work. In fact a big enough nerf that I anticipate parties looking for DO TI and ACDC can gtfo. Maybe I'm wrong and maybe some combos of things will save the ACDC mitigation build but I don't see it... Yet.
I think you are understanding it right, so lets take a proper look at it: Lets assume the DC has 40k power sharable (that is unlikelly if even possible but let's go with that).
On live: DC: Gives himself 20k power and his companion, companion procs gif again and will raise the DC power to something near 109k, that is near the border with space where power doesn't matter much anyway, DC takes 0 damage for the full duration of the daillie (8 seconds). Team: Receives 20k power, same story for protection.
A DC with high ap gain in a low geared team: Bonus damage from power: 20k/400 = 50% it's not 50% because from 0 to 20k it will already diminuish so lets say 40%. Bonus damage from hallowed ground = 40% Bonus damage to team = Base*1,4*1.4 = 1.96 CC imunity; No damage taken.
A DC with high ap gain in a high geared team: Bonus damage from power: 20k/400 = 50% it's not 50% because from 0 to 20k it will already diminuish and it's a high geared team so lets say 25%. Bonus damage from hallowed ground = 40% Bonus damage to team = Base*1,25*1.4 = Base*1,75 CC imunity; No damage taken.
With the recent changes:
A DC with high ap gain in a low geared team: Bonus damage from power: 13,2k/400 = 33% it's not 33% because from 0 to 20k it will already diminuish so lets say 26%. Bonus damage from hallowed ground = 40% Bonus damage to team = Base*1,764 CC imunity while charges last; Damage taken by AA = -20%
A DC with high ap gain in a high geared team: Bonus damage from power: 20k/400 =33% it's not 33% because from 0 to 20k it will already diminuish and it's a high geared team so lets say 17%. Bonus damage from hallowed ground = 40% Bonus damage to team = Base*1,17*1.4 = Base*1,638 CC imunity while charges last; Damage taken by AA = -20%
So a DO DC will cast HG and wait the 45 seconds(not 45 seconds, 45-HGduration), a AC will not have to wait to buff the team by AA and can even stack it, not the power. So does this feel bad defencivly? To me yes. Offensivly? no, DC DO now has terryfying insight and can cast other daillies and AC has the option to use AA. 17% it's in this estimative only for the best of the best DC to achieve so yes it may feel lackluster but then there is the combinuation with HG that will make it jump to a total combined of 1,96 multiplier, DC DO also can make something similar with insight but not grant the CC imunity, it feels bad defencivly because there is a likelliness to unstack completly and Divine armour range is bigger than AA that requires the DC to move and find the good place. I was being dumb i thought the share was 100% to himself and 50% to party because of the bondings, i have sugested 80% self, 40% party and 40% damage reduction but now looking above and considering low ap gain players i think the best to do would not just be the 40% but had something like 1 extra charge at rank 1.
A problem related to DC that have a big impact: Prism and beacon of hope: These powers are a too good healing compponent from paladins many times completly nullifying the need of healing, in the case of a temptation SW heals are provided to the party at a cost of dps (or as the definition stands), however a paladin can and will take these powers at almost no cost unlike a protection paladin that takes the light path that sacrifices damage over healing being often worse healer than a justice paladin with the feats mentioned above. Prism is the worst case because of life steal and it's long duration, the OP life steals passing that to prism.
The catch with Prism and Beacon of Hope are that tied to a class which does poor damage to begin with, unless you happen to be @slappdaniel or @greyjay1.
And besides, the Healadin lose to the DC in terms of raw buffing potential and a Tankadin occupies a different spot than a DC, so the "healing" ability more or less evens out (and really, who needs healing when Lifesteal is broken and everything oneshots you or deals no damage?).
I must not be understanding how AA is going to supposedly work. At rank 4 each bubble has a max 20% damage absorption. I assume it dissappears after a hit (each DoT?) now the power share has been reduced, which I'm okay with.
I'm not seeing why I would use AA anymore. Stopping 20% of a 200k+ hit does HAMSTER all for mitigation. Sure there is Astral Shield which will only help if the player doesn't have max DR anyway. Why would I take this version of AA over the new DO improvements especially TI? Only because I want to I suppose.
I know that AA got broke and needed a fix, but this is a huge nerf in my opinion - unless I'm misunderstanding how is going to work. In fact a big enough nerf that I anticipate parties looking for DO TI and ACDC can gtfo. Maybe I'm wrong and maybe some combos of things will save the ACDC mitigation build but I don't see it... Yet.
The Powershare component of AA is still intact, albeit nerfed. It's still a nice DPS boost, assuming your AC DC has built for it and knows what they're doing.
With the DO changes, teams will actually be stronger if they put an AC and DO on the same team, rather than dual stack ACs/dual stack DOs.
DC stays the one and only option for group or raid DO or AC, it's hard to balance classes. I hope there will be a place for OP and other builds , focussed on healing some day.
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treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
edited February 2017
Edit i was checking the stacks on dummies and it was a 3 not a 5....next time i have to do it in a boss, being so, oposite to what i said stacking terryfing insight is easy and when comparing to foresight much superior, it makes no sence a class feature granting everyone 20% damage boost, because of the pvp component i go back on my sugestion, instead, as soon as this CF is sloted the DC will gain 2/4/6/8/10% RI and each attack will grant him and his allies 1% increased damage up to 10%, this damage boost should not fall in battle, tthis is mainly because of fast fights, AA will not compete with DO, build ap enough to spam AA+ HG takes a bit, soo i thing i finally got right xD.
And with insight change i dont think anymore that PoD should be uncapped, people will go for the guts and use every debuff possible so i think we would only see DO's and praticly no AC's.
About piercing light, like i said before it needs a buff, righteous will with these changes still have a bad performance in pvp while alone so problably make it "when you damage an enemy you will take 10% less damage and have your CC resist increased by 10% for 2/4/6/8/10 seconds.
Astral shield is still too much of plastic wrap in pvp, if i am reading the description right so will warding flare. PS: Has cold shoulder been fixed yet? It was a timer not hit damage reduction that was causing very harm to classes with many small hits.
When i called out OP i meant tanks only, i played protection bullwark, justice and light and i can perfectly tell that a OP with prism+burning light+20% LS can easly heal a team up(and ls cant heal most classes if they are knocked) so what needs discution is between OP/DC and GF/DC combinations that have diferent buffs, yet both with great performance, unless the DC needs to heal someone, that's where OP comes in. PS: And dont forget WE now scale, those WE WILL life steal, that life steal will then also be shared with the team, things like plague fire, it's small but still worth mention.
@rapo973 i apologize in advance, before reading the whole page, i submited a post very similar to yours that is under approvation.
Mitigation/protection? This. Dc should meaningfully support the tank in protecting the group. You didn't get the balance right so far. [...] As for the new aa...the mitigation will do a flying hamster now especially in new content... [...] So I am not satisfied with the changes...it' s not good enough. Playing the cleric can't be all about buff-bottery, mediocre dps (even with 30% more) and otherwise just look pretty >:( I say BLEH to that! Thumbs down.
I tend to agree with you about mitigation. I've tried to propose a quick and dirty solution for it in an attempt to resurrect the virtuous path. However I'm curious to see how some tanks may want to adapt, because that will be one of the consequences of these changes.
I agree to your proposition though I would say such modesty is misplaced. They took away a shitload of mitigation and gave back what? Some bugfixes and damage...*snorty sound* A full re-work of the virtuous path is necessary in order to provide some meaningful mitigation choices. Faithful can stay as a niche build in order to be a pita in PVP (maybe the new divine armor helps with achieving that in pvp I dunno:P).
And I´m not so curious to see this: wipewipewipitywipesuperwipewipe without being able to do something about it as a dc. The dc should be well able to up the general defenses of the group as well as even out situational f-ups. Of course I´m not concerned about schlepping a funny pug through the old dungeons since toons are already grossly op for those. But the dc re-work has to be done with the new content (and hopefully much more content like this in the future)....!
So the objective would be:
a. provide a build choice specializing in mitigation (virtuous)
b. provide some class feats, but more importantly also encounters and dailies to meaningfully impart protection to the group if necessary while b1: giving more choices for general protection...heightening the groups defensive properties b2: giving choices (or at least one choice) for emergency big time protection against biggest hits/one-shots -> I´m not saying give me back my aa-cheese here....instead I would ask the dev to be creative to come up with something less cheesy....situational to use...requiring the dc to time it correctly...there can also be a cost involved....and it surely doesn´t have to be super buff and super mitigation at the same time like aa was. I´m just asking the dev to be creative and come up with something like this. As it is with the changes even a freaking hr can to more to keep the group alive in case of emergency than a dc which is so utterly wrong >:(
I´m not making concrete propositions at this time because I think the first step is always to consider what is the general goal of what you´re trying to achieve. Only after you have established that it makes sense to go into the particulars. I don´t think the general goal has been established yet. And if it has ... it´s not remotely to my liking. I think we both agree the dc should be more than a buff/debuff bot with mediocre dps that just watches his/her group go six feet under in case of difficulities. Many here seem to think that is exactly what the dc should be.
I must not be understanding how AA is going to supposedly work. At rank 4 each bubble has a max 20% damage absorption. I assume it dissappears after a hit (each DoT?) now the power share has been reduced, which I'm okay with.
I'm not seeing why I would use AA anymore. Stopping 20% of a 200k+ hit does HAMSTER all for mitigation. Sure there is Astral Shield which will only help if the player doesn't have max DR anyway. Why would I take this version of AA over the new DO improvements especially TI? Only because I want to I suppose.
I know that AA got broke and needed a fix, but this is a huge nerf in my opinion - unless I'm misunderstanding how is going to work. In fact a big enough nerf that I anticipate parties looking for DO TI and ACDC can gtfo. Maybe I'm wrong and maybe some combos of things will save the ACDC mitigation build but I don't see it... Yet.
Well yes, aa is HAMSTER for mitigation now. A cw trying to tank a big hit will go six feet under immediately even if it has 20% of its hp (lol?) shielded. Assuming the toon has between 100k-120k hp that would be something like 20k-24k incoming damage per trigger. Unless we understood this incorrectly. And if the power buff disappears after the mitigation has been fully triggered (along with the cc immunity) it is HAMSTER as a buff, too...in quite a lot of situations. I just hope that is not what is intended. And AS.....well, if a tank asks for it in new content it may make more sense to kick the tank than actually use AS unless I´m missing something:P It might help out some dps....but with the small aoe of AS and DG...trying to meaningfully cover melee and ranged dps with that...yea well, I dunno how it´s supposed to be possible more often than not.
AC/DC or DO/DC still will be the best buffer by far in this game. No class will deal same ammounts of buffs, nothing to fear for anyone and no chance for most any other leader to top this. AA is still powerfull, Ancient Warding is a 20% duration increase, 10 seconds is sufficient for a buff like this. The cc immunity is a very powerfull buff anyway. 33% power is a buff for about 10 to 15k, depending on your basestats, combined with a maxed companion it´s 40-55k power all in all. You get a mitigationbuff on top. No, other daily can do the same. If you combine AS+AA+DG+BF+BtS you achieve a 40% DR buff+ 17,5%DR+ 15% DR +80/60/40/20% mititgation + 50% damagedebuff+40% Damagebuff + cc immunity + >100k power...anything else needed?
@schietindebux you might have to explain this to me, sorry if I'm dense. The max mitigation for AA is 20% of Max HP. On a hit 1 of 4 bubbles disappears (each DoT eg. Everfrost will tick one more bubble off) the power share is powerful, but if it only lasts 2-4 seconds (for the bubbles to expire from Hits/DoTs) then it is not really that good is it. AS only helps those without the DR already, so let's say your non-tanks, in the area of effect.
From a buff perspective sure, it's certainly there, but mitigation isn't. I don't see where the duration is going to make a difference unless the way AA expires from hits/DoTs is changed.
We'll see, I'm prepared to adjust either way, I just really like the mitigation role and although buffs and DPS are intact or increased its mitigation that had been severely nerfed. As a DC I always wanted to either heal or mitigate damage with some buffs/debuffs. The way things look, I'm more apt to do DPS with buffs/debuffs instead. Where is team survival. Life steal I guess.
I would be fine with this if there was sufficient other real mitigation options to stack with IT so we'll see how other changes work in conjunction with this but on its own AA still appears Meh now.
treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
I initially read Terryfying insight will give 8% additional damage +4 per stack, so it is giving now 20% more damage to the team, sure i wanted something viable but take in consireration foresight it gives 8% (8 right?) DR at r4 and it needs to heal a player, terryfying insight if it works as i am thinking is a nonsence, why would i want to slot healers lore if i have a class feature that will grant my party 20% more damage? If this goes live im tottally not touching my DC again, playing without freedom of choice is not playing, im done my feedback is given, but i sincerelly hope things get good for the people that invested a lot in their DC, my DC is reasonably good but nothing close to the ones that build theirs to the milimmiter with hundreads of hours, so good luck.
AC/DC or DO/DC still will be the best buffer by far in this game. No class will deal same ammounts of buffs, nothing to fear for anyone and no chance for most any other leader to top this. AA is still powerfull, Ancient Warding is a 20% duration increase, 10 seconds is sufficient for a buff like this. The cc immunity is a very powerfull buff anyway. 33% power is a buff for about 10 to 15k, depending on your basestats, combined with a maxed companion it´s 40-55k power all in all. You get a mitigationbuff on top. No, other daily can do the same. If you combine AS+AA+DG+BF+BtS you achieve a 40% DR buff+ 17,5%DR+ 15% DR +80/60/40/20% mititgation + 50% damagedebuff+40% Damagebuff + cc immunity + >100k power...anything else needed?
If everyones neatly piled up, yes. Though I think in that case it´s: 30% dmg buff (big aoe), 50% dmg-debuff (single target), 40% DR (small aoe) + 10%DR (small aoe) + 17,5% dr-debuff (small aoe), 5% dmg-debuff (small aoe), +12,5 dmg buff (small aoe)+ BoB (big range I think)+ power share/cc immunity (medium range)+ 20% of targets hp x4 mitigation (medium range), no? Approximately...I´m not a number-cruncher.
Just need to tell the group and the monsters to be neatly piled up, right? And politely ask a big bad monsters to only attack a toon if they´ve been hit by bts and then only if the toon is standing in as with dg up, hihi:)
Bah, they´ll just end up un-nerfing tanks again (or some other class) when the whining starts and the dc´s big-hit mitigation properties will have been castrated away for no good reason.
But we´re still the kings and queens of buff, yay...and with increased dmg...what do I care if half the dps ..heck, all of them....croaks...I´m dps, too. That´s just not exactly (all of) what makes playing the dc interesting to me.
Mabye I misunderstood those writings, thinking 20% mitigation from max. HP means, 80% at 4 balls, 60% at 3, 40% at 2 remaining, otherwise it´s a big downgrade but much more in line and maybe a reason to dodge and step out of red zones. Second effect may be the need of a good healer in mSVA, room for OP and templock, i hope so.
Mabye I misunderstood those writings, thinking 20% mitigation from max. HP means, 80% at 4 balls, 60% at 3, 40% at 2 remaining, otherwise it´s a big downgrade but much more in line and maybe a reason to dodge and step out of red zones. Second effect may be the need of a good healer in mSVA, room for OP and templock, i hope so.
That´s not how I understood it. Well, maybe it´ll be exciting to see how game play changes....better dodge, coordination and whatnot...I´m just saying...if they took away the dc´s mitigation only to let it pop up at some other (less appropriate) place then there will be reason to whine and howl like baby wolves...:P
But we´re still the kings and queens of buff, yay...and with increased dmg...what do I care if half the dps ..heck, all of them....croaks...I´m dps, too. That´s just not exactly (all of) what makes playing the dc interesting to me.
That's the same point I wanted to underline yesterday, these changes are yes, somehow balancing the 2 different paths (DO and AC) but at the same time they are leading everyone towards the same type of DC playing: damage buffer for the party... If that's the most requested type by endgame groups in order to reduce the time spent in the runs, that doesn't mean it's the only way to be played (and to be updated).
I'm sorry if I just repeated myself but every time something is made in the good direction I feel that bitter feeling of something else terribly wrong.
Azeroth Godwill - (Half)Drow - Virtuous AC DC - iLvL 4k
Yyyyyeeeeeesssss make the DC useless mwahahahaha! Let's make everyone useles!!! Mwahahahahaha!
So what they did here is really make the AP build clerics vegetable.
No AP = no haste.
AA with less damage mitigation is okay.
But major skills no longer give major AP = no dailies for AP built DCs dailies making their feats by itself almost not appealing. Namely Chains.
So, what is gonna happen here most likely is tanks can no longer depend on cleric for buffs but healadins and other builds.
Tanks are gonna evolve to figure out a way to mitigate and regenerate. Which is already what they're supposed to be doing. I have only seen a few tank stand alone without a healer at Orcus.
Guide makers are gonna have to step up their game for tanks. They will have to find a way to mitigate all damage and regenerate. Basically what tanks should already be. Not a DPS. If you wanna have a tank and you wanna top DPS boards, you're not the right class because the only time you'll top is when you're playing with scrubs anyways.
Clerics are gonna rely on piloting and what they have left which are power share, damage buff, AA, with a little bit of passive healing.
Group compositions would consist of 1 Cleric buff/debuff 1 Tank 1 Healer (healadins or healer cleric) 2 massive DPS
This would be my take for this update.
People who can't DPS wouldn't be able to get in dungeons because people won't pick them.
Low geared people are less likely to get in, forcing them to pay up and buy gears just to actually enjoy the game.
AC/DC or DO/DC still will be the best buffer by far in this game. No class will deal same ammounts of buffs, nothing to fear for anyone and no chance for most any other leader to top this. AA is still powerfull, Ancient Warding is a 20% duration increase, 10 seconds is sufficient for a buff like this. The cc immunity is a very powerfull buff anyway. 33% power is a buff for about 10 to 15k, depending on your basestats, combined with a maxed companion it´s 40-55k power all in all. You get a mitigationbuff on top. No, other daily can do the same. If you combine AS+AA+DG+BF+BtS you achieve a 40% DR buff+ 17,5%DR+ 15% DR +80/60/40/20% mititgation + 50% damagedebuff+40% Damagebuff + cc immunity + >100k power...anything else needed?
You forgot a big difference between a DC and every other freaking class out there except Pally. Dc's are not meant to " just buff " and " just debuff " are they ? That is all the clerics are good for? Who the HAMSTER cares about the clerics who are actually giving the buffs ? Why no one thought of the fact that AA is helping the clerics survive too ? 20 % of my max hp ? EH... yea not going to help with my 120 k of hp. Is that so hard to fathom ? We are not tanks. When i dodge around i do not heal. People do not group up just so i can buff and heal them all together at the same time. They scatter around like chickens. And you collect them . But hey stick to your tank... cos if you do not , well.... failing a dungeon for 5 to 6 times in a row must be hell of a fun.
We stick to tanks in boss fights. Cos they need our buffs and heals sometimes, in order for us to survive . That is how it is supposed to be , correct ? So why can't AA give clerics immunity as it is ? I do not mind if AA power share is nerfed to freaking 0. I would love it. But tell me what exactly do i have now to protect myself? HG maybe ? AS ? Will that help me survive as a cleric ?
I have a suggestion. Of something needed. Make mobs stop one hitting people so clerics can actually do what they are supposed to. Freaking heal. I ll be able to do what i am supposed to as a cleric. SAVE PEOPLE FROM DYING LIKE PIGS IN THE SLAUGHTERHOUSE.
I do not mind the buff of power for you dps clerics out there . Congrats on it ! I am happy for you. And also congrats on DO clerics for getting what they wanted. Your buffs will rock now.
But what about AC clerics now ? HG spamming ? Really ? 3 times bts in empowered + DG normal , no ap gain ? Really ?
People are dying in the new skirmish from deflect of an enemy . Orcus is two hitting a pally like he is made of paper. Dragon Turtle hits ? Steam deaths ? Even freaking manticores in MSVA and FBI can one hit you. Who freaking cares about buffs when your whole party is down on the floor ? Hitting that HELP button like crazy. It is so rewarding to see that . Really. Mass scrolls of life for the win !
Even 4.3 clerics i know do not have 40 k power. They are around 33 to maybe 35 k if they invest everything in power. Sacrificing a bit of everything else, including armor pen. I do not recollect seeing more then 2 clerics with 40 k power. I remember one who was a BIS character and that guy rocked it. I was awed.
I certainly do not have that kind of an amount and i am almost to 3.9 k . 23 to 25 k power, 13 k recovery and 8 k a.p ( thank you guild boons ) and 12 crit cos you cant freaking avoid having it. With all the crit on different gear and artifacts. Defense is a must have so 14 k of defense. And that is after checking all of the clerics on my friend list who are above 4.0.
So not like much will be changed after this change.
I can not wait for it to go live. Really. Seriously. It is going to be beautiful.
But hey at least the new healing class is coming out so i am sure tons of people will switch to the op new class. Cos i am sure they will be able to save people from getting one hit all the time.
No it's not ok. A big part of this discussion is about buff/debuff, if DO or AC give more buff. Interesting, but it's not enough. I see nothing about mitigation, probably because many players are well used with AA. Today I can do everything because of AA, tommorow it will be a different story. Just to show the difference: the use case is "big and heavy shots". Today as a righteous AC DC I can buff AND heal AND mitigate: all in one. Tommorow I can buff (less) AND heal (less) AND mitigate. I'm fine with this approach if the DC is designed in a way that I have the option to provide mitigation at the cost to give up a part of the buff feats. Honestly as a DC I would like to focus on mitigation instead of buff because I think it will be needed. Given that it's not the case and given that the AA joke is over, I suspect that the tank is the only class that will have the task to absorb the big shots and my role will be to make it possible. Power creep, AA, lifesteal: we all forgot about heals, but mitigation is another animal when you have to support the team against heavy damages. So I'm waiting to check if the issue I see is real, if the current DC design is enough to provide mitigation when a good tank is in, but as a first assessment coming from my experience, I suspect that it's not enough for the most challenging contents (mSVA, FBI and to some extent even CN). Maybe I'm wrong. And supporting the tanks is still a small piece of job.
Oltreverso guild leader Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
You know, it's a shame the dev team didn't take this approach when making changes to the Paladin. The feedback went on for many pages but there was no communication from the team after the initial post, and certainly no adjustments made.
On topic, I do think that a shield of 20% of HP is very light in the current reality that enemy npc's hit for many times that value. Personally I think the minimum should be 25% of incoming damage.
Enemies easily deal 100-800k damage to players and it's this 1-shot mechanic that is the root of many problems. Players would be much more open to reductions in defensive capability if they had the chance to actually heal up.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
That is all the clerics are good for? [...] Why no one thought of the fact that AA is helping the clerics survive too ? 20 % of my max hp ? EH... yea not going to help with my 120 k of hp. Is that so hard to fathom ? We are not tanks. When i dodge around i do not heal. People do not group up just so i can buff and heal them all together at the same time. [...] Dragon Turtle hits ? Steam deaths ? Even freaking manticores in MSVA and FBI can one hit you. Who freaking cares about buffs when your whole party is down on the floor ?
Oltreverso guild leader Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
It will be interesting to see these changes, I think people are overreacting just like in every fix to broken things. What @dreadnaught#5263 is trying to do because is good it will make it so support classes will neeed to be coordinated to beat harder content and dps will need to learn to dodge maybe respect game mechanics as well and that's the way it supposed to be, besides, DO will be a decent choice to have in groups, I can't wait to see how it goes! Sooner or later most players will adapt just like the did after the nerfs to 20 secs bubble, dr-based and DG-HG empowered fray and spammable burst gift of haste.
A decent equipped DC even not using AA has no issues to run solocontent. Last days I met some 1.8 IL classes in Bry Shandar and also poor equipped player running the New content. Sure they struggle. A propper build DC using DG, chains etc. should have no problems. If someone cries about being just a buffmachine...just skip your Buffs and try to build a devotion Pally. Or go build a striker, those classes will only be judged by the damage they deal. Lot's if tears even being the best leaderclass ingame by far.
A decent equipped DC even not using AA has no issues to run solocontent. Last days I met some 1.8 IL classes in Bry Shandar and also poor equipped player running the New content. Sure they struggle. A propper build DC using DG, chains etc. should have no problems. If someone cries about being just a buffmachine...just skip your Buffs and try to build a devotion Pally. Or go build a striker, those classes will only be judged by the damage they deal. Lot's if tears even being the best leaderclass ingame by far.
You have a DC correct ? What IL are you ? How many DCs do you have ? I am not antagonizing you with my questions. I am asking cos i know how hard it was for me to level my cleric through the new zones. Not cos i can not kill anything. I can. But it takes me longer. Have in mind i actually do have 2.5 Protection Pally, 2,4 Warlock and and around 2k CW.
On a DC , your dailies do take longer if you are not a DPS cleric, especially if you run all of the SOMI dailies. River district is the same. You need heroics and you need to guard the posts and kill random mobs for the currency. Dps clerics are different then not dps clerics. Have that in mind. And yes, chains and light + glow or you pick forgehammer or something like that...It takes you longer. But that is beside the point. If i am to run hard end content , i expect to be equiped with powers to save my own life. Dodge does not do it. You can not dodge getting one shot. I expect having something to help my team survive. To help my tank survive. Cos if he goes down we all go down. You can avoid stuff for so long until it hits you. And then what ? Will you rely on bugs to finish a dungeon ? In order to heal i need to be alive. Not on a floor after turtle body hits me the first time. Or the manticore hits me cos there was no red dot on the floor. Do not even get me started with lag in some of the dungeons. Just look at manticore boss in FBI. So how do you plan to survive that ? Mass scrolls of life ? Is that what all will come down to ?
If you really feel that clerics are only good for buffs / debuffs and damage, that is your view. I disagree with it. I feel clerics should have a chance to be what they where meant to be. Healers first, everything second. You already sacrifice a lot of your stats to achieve that anyway. Same with DO clerics and same with DPS clerics. Something needs to be sacrificed in order to achieve something else.
Comments
I've tried to propose a quick and dirty solution for it in an attempt to resurrect the virtuous path.
However I'm curious to see how some tanks may want to adapt, because that will be one of the consequences of these changes.
Oltreverso guild leader
Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
Can final acts receive the same treatment as living fire?
Anointed action: I dont know how drunk i was when i said the damage bonus of this class feature is good, it is awefull, 13,32% more damage for 5 seconds, and also it's counterpart 13.32% more DR for 5 seconds, the time to cast anything worth (appart from flame strike second hit....that it's buffed already anyway) is very small, for a DC to mantain that buff for half of the time it is already a big prowess, this CF need at least 0,5 seconds more uptime per rank (that would be 6,5*1,2 = 7.8 with the feat).
Prophecy of doom really needs visual rework, it may be more expensive but it's one of those cases where it really needs to be fixed, something like arms of Arms of Hadar was.
Light of divinity may work with things that i dont know of like prism but i think it would be interesting to have a meaning of it's own and heal for a relevant amount.
Searight light the original 2' cylinder for the non divinity mode is very restricting.
AA since anointed army has been nerfed in the amount of power shared, to make this power more viable to players with still low ap gain (even to players with high ap gain), instead 8 seconds base duration not getting hit, something like 12, this dailly power cannot stack the same DC power twice so i dont think it's a problem.
Unbreakable devotion seems not be working at all (inspite of appearing in the screen), if it is granting the shield only the first time (give and hold for 6 seconds) then it's a very weak feat, if it's not being buffed by anything, it is as well weak.
So optimally (this is my opinion) it would give the target a stackable shield up to 300% dc weapon damage, 866 (legendary current best weapon) * 6 = 5196, multiplied by HoT bonuses and DC outgoing healing bonuses, gif of life, virtue gift and desperate restoration, power, etc. If that results in 3* multiplier and the shield goes up to 15 588, active only 6 out of 20 seconds, seems perfectly fine to me, i thought about player base HP but that would mean the DC protecting less weak players that are oftenly the ones that need the most.
Virtue Gift: Usually the DC is either lower than 50% HP because has been shot heavly or at 100% HP because of so fast healing this feat makes little sence, more correct would be something like : 90%/80%/70%/60%/50%.
I am liking the changes, giving more choices to people, i dont want to get people mad at me....but now every experient DC uses break the spirit as the boost it gives to the DC + the damage reduction + party boost is the best choice and almost the best dps choice for the DC, nothing will change if it doesn't get some attention, plis no hate i just want to see more things viable.
2 things that still need a buff:
Healer's lore, divine fortune, anointed armour off hand artifact boost.
Sacred flame.
A problem related to DC that have a big impact:
Prism and beacon of hope: These powers are a too good healing compponent from paladins many times completly nullifying the need of healing, in the case of a temptation SW heals are provided to the party at a cost of dps (or as the definition stands), however a paladin can and will take these powers at almost no cost unlike a protection paladin that takes the light path that sacrifices damage over healing being often worse healer than a justice paladin with the feats mentioned above. Prism is the worst case because of life steal and it's long duration, the OP life steals passing that to prism.
I'm not seeing why I would use AA anymore. Stopping 20% of a 200k+ hit does <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> all for mitigation. Sure there is Astral Shield which will only help if the player doesn't have max DR anyway. Why would I take this version of AA over the new DO improvements especially TI? Only because I want to I suppose.
I know that AA got broke and needed a fix, but this is a huge nerf in my opinion - unless I'm misunderstanding how is going to work. In fact a big enough nerf that I anticipate parties looking for DO TI and ACDC can gtfo. Maybe I'm wrong and maybe some combos of things will save the ACDC mitigation build but I don't see it... Yet.
Lets assume the DC has 40k power sharable (that is unlikelly if even possible but let's go with that).
On live:
DC: Gives himself 20k power and his companion, companion procs gif again and will raise the DC power to something near 109k, that is near the border with space where power doesn't matter much anyway, DC takes 0 damage for the full duration of the daillie (8 seconds).
Team: Receives 20k power, same story for protection.
A DC with high ap gain in a low geared team:
Bonus damage from power: 20k/400 = 50% it's not 50% because from 0 to 20k it will already diminuish so lets say 40%.
Bonus damage from hallowed ground = 40%
Bonus damage to team = Base*1,4*1.4 = 1.96
CC imunity;
No damage taken.
A DC with high ap gain in a high geared team:
Bonus damage from power: 20k/400 = 50% it's not 50% because from 0 to 20k it will already diminuish and it's a high geared team so lets say 25%.
Bonus damage from hallowed ground = 40%
Bonus damage to team = Base*1,25*1.4 = Base*1,75
CC imunity;
No damage taken.
With the recent changes:
A DC with high ap gain in a low geared team:
Bonus damage from power: 13,2k/400 = 33% it's not 33% because from 0 to 20k it will already diminuish so lets say 26%.
Bonus damage from hallowed ground = 40%
Bonus damage to team = Base*1,764
CC imunity while charges last;
Damage taken by AA = -20%
A DC with high ap gain in a high geared team:
Bonus damage from power: 20k/400 =33% it's not 33% because from 0 to 20k it will already diminuish and it's a high geared team so lets say 17%.
Bonus damage from hallowed ground = 40%
Bonus damage to team = Base*1,17*1.4 = Base*1,638
CC imunity while charges last;
Damage taken by AA = -20%
So a DO DC will cast HG and wait the 45 seconds(not 45 seconds, 45-HGduration), a AC will not have to wait to buff the team by AA and can even stack it, not the power. So does this feel bad defencivly? To me yes. Offensivly? no, DC DO now has terryfying insight and can cast other daillies and AC has the option to use AA. 17% it's in this estimative only for the best of the best DC to achieve so yes it may feel lackluster but then there is the combinuation with HG that will make it jump to a total combined of 1,96 multiplier, DC DO also can make something similar with insight but not grant the CC imunity, it feels bad defencivly because there is a likelliness to unstack completly and Divine armour range is bigger than AA that requires the DC to move and find the good place. I was being dumb i thought the share was 100% to himself and 50% to party because of the bondings, i have sugested 80% self, 40% party and 40% damage reduction but now looking above and considering low ap gain players i think the best to do would not just be the 40% but had something like 1 extra charge at rank 1.
And besides, the Healadin lose to the DC in terms of raw buffing potential and a Tankadin occupies a different spot than a DC, so the "healing" ability more or less evens out (and really, who needs healing when Lifesteal is broken and everything oneshots you or deals no damage?). The Powershare component of AA is still intact, albeit nerfed. It's still a nice DPS boost, assuming your AC DC has built for it and knows what they're doing.
With the DO changes, teams will actually be stronger if they put an AC and DO on the same team, rather than dual stack ACs/dual stack DOs.
And with insight change i dont think anymore that PoD should be uncapped, people will go for the guts and use every debuff possible so i think we would only see DO's and praticly no AC's.
About piercing light, like i said before it needs a buff, righteous will with these changes still have a bad performance in pvp while alone so problably make it "when you damage an enemy you will take 10% less damage and have your CC resist increased by 10% for 2/4/6/8/10 seconds.
Astral shield is still too much of plastic wrap in pvp, if i am reading the description right so will warding flare.
PS: Has cold shoulder been fixed yet? It was a timer not hit damage reduction that was causing very harm to classes with many small hits.
When i called out OP i meant tanks only, i played protection bullwark, justice and light and i can perfectly tell that a OP with prism+burning light+20% LS can easly heal a team up(and ls cant heal most classes if they are knocked) so what needs discution is between OP/DC and GF/DC combinations that have diferent buffs, yet both with great performance, unless the DC needs to heal someone, that's where OP comes in.
PS: And dont forget WE now scale, those WE WILL life steal, that life steal will then also be shared with the team, things like plague fire, it's small but still worth mention.
@rapo973 i apologize in advance, before reading the whole page, i submited a post very similar to yours that is under approvation.
A full re-work of the virtuous path is necessary in order to provide some meaningful mitigation choices. Faithful can stay as a niche build in order to be a pita in PVP (maybe the new divine armor helps with achieving that in pvp I dunno:P).
And I´m not so curious to see this: wipewipewipitywipesuperwipewipe without being able to do something about it as a dc. The dc should be well able to up the general defenses of the group as well as even out situational f-ups. Of course I´m not concerned about schlepping a funny pug through the old dungeons since toons are already grossly op for those. But the dc re-work has to be done with the new content (and hopefully much more content like this in the future)....!
So the objective would be:
a. provide a build choice specializing in mitigation (virtuous)
b. provide some class feats, but more importantly also encounters and dailies to meaningfully impart protection to the group if necessary
while
b1: giving more choices for general protection...heightening the groups defensive properties
b2: giving choices (or at least one choice) for emergency big time protection against biggest hits/one-shots
-> I´m not saying give me back my aa-cheese here....instead I would ask the dev to be creative to come
up with something less cheesy....situational to use...requiring the dc to time it correctly...there can
also be a cost involved....and it surely doesn´t have to be super buff and super mitigation at the same
time like aa was. I´m just asking the dev to be creative and come up with something like this. As it is
with the changes even a freaking hr can to more to keep the group alive in case of emergency than a
dc which is so utterly wrong >:(
I´m not making concrete propositions at this time because I think the first step is always to consider what is the general goal of what you´re trying to achieve. Only after you have established that it makes sense to go into the particulars.
I don´t think the general goal has been established yet. And if it has ... it´s not remotely to my liking. I think we both agree the dc should be more than a buff/debuff bot with mediocre dps that just watches his/her group go six feet under in case of difficulities. Many here seem to think that is exactly what the dc should be. Well yes, aa is HAMSTER for mitigation now. A cw trying to tank a big hit will go six feet under immediately even if it has 20% of its hp (lol?) shielded. Assuming the toon has between 100k-120k hp that would be something like 20k-24k incoming damage per trigger. Unless we understood this incorrectly.
And if the power buff disappears after the mitigation has been fully triggered (along with the cc immunity) it is HAMSTER as a buff, too...in quite a lot of situations. I just hope that is not what is intended. And AS.....well, if a tank asks for it in new content it may make more sense to kick the tank than actually use AS unless I´m missing something:P It might help out some dps....but with the small aoe of AS and DG...trying to meaningfully cover melee and ranged dps with that...yea well, I dunno how it´s supposed to be possible more often than not.
AA is still powerfull, Ancient Warding is a 20% duration increase, 10 seconds is sufficient for a buff like this.
The cc immunity is a very powerfull buff anyway.
33% power is a buff for about 10 to 15k, depending on your basestats, combined with a maxed companion it´s 40-55k power all in all. You get a mitigationbuff on top. No, other daily can do the same.
If you combine AS+AA+DG+BF+BtS you achieve a 40% DR buff+ 17,5%DR+ 15% DR +80/60/40/20% mititgation + 50% damagedebuff+40% Damagebuff + cc immunity + >100k power...anything else needed?
From a buff perspective sure, it's certainly there, but mitigation isn't. I don't see where the duration is going to make a difference unless the way AA expires from hits/DoTs is changed.
We'll see, I'm prepared to adjust either way, I just really like the mitigation role and although buffs and DPS are intact or increased its mitigation that had been severely nerfed. As a DC I always wanted to either heal or mitigate damage with some buffs/debuffs. The way things look, I'm more apt to do DPS with buffs/debuffs instead. Where is team survival. Life steal I guess.
I would be fine with this if there was sufficient other real mitigation options to stack with IT so we'll see how other changes work in conjunction with this but on its own AA still appears Meh now.
Approximately...I´m not a number-cruncher.
Just need to tell the group and the monsters to be neatly piled up, right? And politely ask a big bad monsters to only attack a toon if they´ve been hit by bts and then only if the toon is standing in as with dg up, hihi:)
Bah, they´ll just end up un-nerfing tanks again (or some other class) when the whining starts and the dc´s big-hit mitigation properties will have been castrated away for no good reason.
But we´re still the kings and queens of buff, yay...and with increased dmg...what do I care if half the dps ..heck, all of them....croaks...I´m dps, too. That´s just not exactly (all of) what makes playing the dc interesting to me.
Second effect may be the need of a good healer in mSVA, room for OP and templock, i hope so.
But I don't think preview has been updated with these changes, so I'm just speculating.
That's the same point I wanted to underline yesterday, these changes are yes, somehow balancing the 2 different paths (DO and AC) but at the same time they are leading everyone towards the same type of DC playing: damage buffer for the party...
If that's the most requested type by endgame groups in order to reduce the time spent in the runs, that doesn't mean it's the only way to be played (and to be updated).
I'm sorry if I just repeated myself but every time something is made in the good direction I feel that bitter feeling of something else terribly wrong.
Azeroth Godwill - (Half)Drow - Virtuous AC DC - iLvL 4k
So what they did here is really make the AP build clerics vegetable.
No AP = no haste.
AA with less damage mitigation is okay.
But major skills no longer give major AP = no dailies for AP built DCs dailies making their feats by itself almost not appealing. Namely Chains.
So, what is gonna happen here most likely is tanks can no longer depend on cleric for buffs but healadins and other builds.
Tanks are gonna evolve to figure out a way to mitigate and regenerate. Which is already what they're supposed to be doing. I have only seen a few tank stand alone without a healer at Orcus.
Guide makers are gonna have to step up their game for tanks. They will have to find a way to mitigate all damage and regenerate. Basically what tanks should already be.
Not a DPS. If you wanna have a tank and you wanna top DPS boards, you're not the right class because the only time you'll top is when you're playing with scrubs anyways.
Clerics are gonna rely on piloting and what they have left which are power share, damage buff, AA, with a little bit of passive healing.
Group compositions would consist of
1 Cleric buff/debuff
1 Tank
1 Healer (healadins or healer cleric)
2 massive DPS
This would be my take for this update.
People who can't DPS wouldn't be able to get in dungeons because people won't pick them.
Low geared people are less likely to get in, forcing them to pay up and buy gears just to actually enjoy the game.
Good move developers.. good move..
Dc's are not meant to " just buff " and " just debuff " are they ?
That is all the clerics are good for?
Who the HAMSTER cares about the clerics who are actually giving the buffs ?
Why no one thought of the fact that AA is helping the clerics survive too ? 20 % of my max hp ? EH... yea not going to help with my 120 k of hp.
Is that so hard to fathom ? We are not tanks. When i dodge around i do not heal.
People do not group up just so i can buff and heal them all together at the same time.
They scatter around like chickens. And you collect them . But hey stick to your tank... cos if you do not , well.... failing a dungeon for 5 to 6 times in a row must be hell of a fun.
We stick to tanks in boss fights. Cos they need our buffs and heals sometimes, in order for us to survive .
That is how it is supposed to be , correct ?
So why can't AA give clerics immunity as it is ?
I do not mind if AA power share is nerfed to freaking 0. I would love it.
But tell me what exactly do i have now to protect myself? HG maybe ? AS ? Will that help me survive as a cleric ?
I have a suggestion. Of something needed.
Make mobs stop one hitting people so clerics can actually do what they are supposed to.
Freaking heal.
I ll be able to do what i am supposed to as a cleric.
SAVE PEOPLE FROM DYING LIKE PIGS IN THE SLAUGHTERHOUSE.
I do not mind the buff of power for you dps clerics out there . Congrats on it ! I am happy for you.
And also congrats on DO clerics for getting what they wanted. Your buffs will rock now.
But what about AC clerics now ? HG spamming ?
Really ? 3 times bts in empowered + DG normal , no ap gain ? Really ?
People are dying in the new skirmish from deflect of an enemy .
Orcus is two hitting a pally like he is made of paper.
Dragon Turtle hits ? Steam deaths ? Even freaking manticores in MSVA and FBI can one hit you.
Who freaking cares about buffs when your whole party is down on the floor ?
Hitting that HELP button like crazy. It is so rewarding to see that . Really. Mass scrolls of life for the win !
Even 4.3 clerics i know do not have 40 k power.
They are around 33 to maybe 35 k if they invest everything in power. Sacrificing a bit of everything else, including armor pen. I do not recollect seeing more then 2 clerics with 40 k power.
I remember one who was a BIS character and that guy rocked it. I was awed.
I certainly do not have that kind of an amount and i am almost to 3.9 k . 23 to 25 k power,
13 k recovery and 8 k a.p ( thank you guild boons ) and 12 crit cos you cant freaking avoid having it. With all the crit on different gear and artifacts. Defense is a must have so 14 k of defense.
And that is after checking all of the clerics on my friend list who are above 4.0.
So not like much will be changed after this change.
I can not wait for it to go live. Really. Seriously. It is going to be beautiful.
But hey at least the new healing class is coming out so i am sure tons of people will switch to the op new class. Cos i am sure they will be able to save people from getting one hit all the time.
A big part of this discussion is about buff/debuff, if DO or AC give more buff. Interesting, but it's not enough.
I see nothing about mitigation, probably because many players are well used with AA. Today I can do everything because of AA, tommorow it will be a different story.
Just to show the difference: the use case is "big and heavy shots".
Today as a righteous AC DC I can buff AND heal AND mitigate: all in one.
Tommorow I can buff (less) AND heal (less)
AND mitigate. I'm fine with this approach if the DC is designed in a way that I have the option to provide mitigation at the cost to give up a part of the buff feats.Honestly as a DC I would like to focus on mitigation instead of buff because I think it will be needed.
Given that it's not the case and given that the AA joke is over, I suspect that the tank is the only class that will have the task to absorb the big shots and my role will be to make it possible. Power creep, AA, lifesteal: we all forgot about heals, but mitigation is another animal when you have to support the team against heavy damages.
So I'm waiting to check if the issue I see is real, if the current DC design is enough to provide mitigation when a good tank is in, but as a first assessment coming from my experience, I suspect that it's not enough for the most challenging contents (mSVA, FBI and to some extent even CN). Maybe I'm wrong.
And supporting the tanks is still a small piece of job.
Oltreverso guild leader
Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
You know, it's a shame the dev team didn't take this approach when making changes to the Paladin. The feedback went on for many pages but there was no communication from the team after the initial post, and certainly no adjustments made.
On topic, I do think that a shield of 20% of HP is very light in the current reality that enemy npc's hit for many times that value. Personally I think the minimum should be 25% of incoming damage.
Enemies easily deal 100-800k damage to players and it's this 1-shot mechanic that is the root of many problems. Players would be much more open to reductions in defensive capability if they had the chance to actually heal up.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
Oltreverso guild leader
Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
Oltreverso guild leader
Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
Last days I met some 1.8 IL classes in Bry Shandar and also poor equipped player running the New content. Sure they struggle.
A propper build DC using DG, chains etc. should have no problems.
If someone cries about being just a buffmachine...just skip your Buffs and try to build a devotion Pally.
Or go build a striker, those classes will only be judged by the damage they deal. Lot's if tears even being the best leaderclass ingame by far.
I am not antagonizing you with my questions.
I am asking cos i know how hard it was for me to level my cleric through the new zones.
Not cos i can not kill anything. I can. But it takes me longer.
Have in mind i actually do have 2.5 Protection Pally, 2,4 Warlock and and around 2k CW.
On a DC , your dailies do take longer if you are not a DPS cleric, especially if you run all of the SOMI dailies.
River district is the same. You need heroics and you need to guard the posts and kill random mobs for the currency. Dps clerics are different then not dps clerics. Have that in mind. And yes, chains and light + glow or you pick forgehammer or something like that...It takes you longer.
But that is beside the point.
If i am to run hard end content , i expect to be equiped with powers to save my own life.
Dodge does not do it. You can not dodge getting one shot.
I expect having something to help my team survive. To help my tank survive. Cos if he goes down we all go down. You can avoid stuff for so long until it hits you. And then what ?
Will you rely on bugs to finish a dungeon ? In order to heal i need to be alive. Not on a floor after turtle body hits me the first time. Or the manticore hits me cos there was no red dot on the floor.
Do not even get me started with lag in some of the dungeons. Just look at manticore boss in FBI.
So how do you plan to survive that ? Mass scrolls of life ? Is that what all will come down to ?
If you really feel that clerics are only good for buffs / debuffs and damage, that is your view.
I disagree with it.
I feel clerics should have a chance to be what they where meant to be. Healers first, everything second.
You already sacrifice a lot of your stats to achieve that anyway. Same with DO clerics and same with DPS clerics. Something needs to be sacrificed in order to achieve something else.