silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
No I dont, I never want to see it again
its not that positive, what you are you smoking.. about 60-70% dont really like it, out of those, some are ok with it, since it gives more in loot then dungeons (which in itself is beyond ridicolous)
I even heard today, that they cant possible put this stuff in FBI loot, because fbi is too easy to defeat basically and so its better to leave it in fishing.
The only issue I have, the ONLY issue I have at all is that I have to do it to progress, if they just ADDED everything I needed to get the stuff in FBI, I would be A ok, I would have a reason to RUN fbi.. and thus the dungeon would be much better.
Why is it ok that you can pull a freaking brilliant diamond out of a fishing gut basically, but you know.. get that awesome aquamarine in FBI end chest.
None of this makes any sense.
Lets be truthful and honest.. if you removed rewards from fishing.. only like 100 people ever would do this stuff.
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Lets be truthful and honest.. if you removed rewards from fishing.. only like 100 people ever would do this stuff.
Removed, sure, people wouldn't do it for the exact same reason that not many people run dungeons that are unrewarding. Even people that do like it would feel pressured to do something else. Same reason that if you attach the same reward to a quest that takes 20 minutes and a quest that takes 2 minutes, and players only need to do one, they'll do the short one unless the long one is *really* fun (hint: it's probably not, at least not more than once).
It's completely okay for fishing to be rewarding. It's not ok for the dungeons to not be rewarding. It's not ok for the only rewarding activity in the game to be fishing.
its not that positive, what you are you smoking.. about 60-70% dont really like it, out of those, some are ok with it, since it gives more in loot then dungeons (which in itself is beyond ridicolous)
I even heard today, that they cant possible put this stuff in FBI loot, because fbi is too easy to defeat basically and so its better to leave it in fishing.
The only issue I have, the ONLY issue I have at all is that I have to do it to progress, if they just ADDED everything I needed to get the stuff in FBI, I would be A ok, I would have a reason to RUN fbi.. and thus the dungeon would be much better.
Why is it ok that you can pull a freaking brilliant diamond out of a fishing gut basically, but you know.. get that awesome aquamarine in FBI end chest.
None of this makes any sense.
Lets be truthful and honest.. if you removed rewards from fishing.. only like 100 people ever would do this stuff.
I guess I was expecting 90% to dislike it and only a very small minority (say 5%) to like it. I'm not saying that the majority do like fishing, its just more than I expected.
Not that 10-20 ppl is a significant sample size tho.
I agree with you, I hate / loath / despise it. But if other ppl like it, meh I'll stop complaining about it (well I'll complain less)
Ps. and obviously pretzels don't make everyone thirsty
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kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
Yes, I like it. Give me more
Most of my guild has stated that they enjoy fishing. A few of them don't. Personally, if you don't like it - you can skip it by buying a bunch of the map in a bottle and just going treasure hunting. You get fish from the treasure chest, so really there is not much reason at all to fish if you hate it that much.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
No I dont, I never want to see it again
its dailies and deep sea fishing!
Becky is right.. 100% .. that is the issue, when dungeons reward a pittance of what you get fishing, something is just way off.
I could care less if poeple are pulling brilliant diamonds out of fish guts basically, I do care that the same amount of time put into running a FBI rewards me 1 salvage piece.. wtf.
Just WTF .
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ichimaruginxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 230Arc User
I can live with it, but I'd rather not see more of the same
For my guildies, a faction of them enjoy it, majority don't really mind that it exists or not, a faction dislike it, and a few hates it to the bone and puke every time they have to hold a fishing pole!
I'd say, the ones who outright enjoys it are slightly less than the ones that dislike it but most of my guildies really didn't mind it - if they don't wanna fish they just head off for the BHEs. The lack of content does bother me though - and it seems like the devs took the easy way out with this mod, but that doesn't mean fishing is bad. It's just fishing with nothing else that's bad.
I really don't like the way fishing has been made so prominent in SKT either. It's part of the reason I only took two of my characters to the fourth boon and will probably never go back there for any others. The happiest I remember being during my second time through was when I no longer had to take fishing to complete my dailies there. Ugh.
Now compare the problematic SKT campaign zones to Sharandar and Dread Ring, which are both more enjoyable to play and also give RP and marks as a reason to keep going back. Why can't the new zones also give reward that are useful outside of the campaign? If content is going to be like this from now on, at least give us a spoonful of sugar to help us gag it down.
Fishing seems like a vanity project that got way out of control. It's not thematically appropriate to the game but is getting resources at the expense of more important activities like restoring old dungeons and adding new ones, it's not implemented very well, it causes problems with inventory management and rather than being something for people to do it if they like it was made part of gear progression.
Right now it's being over-rewarded as a source of AD (compared to core game activities like, oh I don't know, running dungeons and killing dragons) in an apparent attempt to bribe us to do it. Presumably that way the team can claim it as a success because some people will put up with it to make money in-game. I have seen a few people on the forums here and on Reddit claiming to like fishing, but there are loads more who don't, and I've never heard anyone say in game that they like it.
If I were a little more paranoid, I might think that some activities added to the game are almost a dare not to play or some social science experiment in how unpleasant you can make some parts of the game before diehard supporters leave.
Here's some new armour with a marginal power increase, now spend hours farming voninblod to keep it empowered (lessons from IWD gear and dungeons not learnt). Here's a new dungeon with a very high entry requirement, now spend time and effort to get in and then choke on the poor rewards. Oh, and to top it all off, here's some more fishing for those of you who put up with all of that other stuff if you want to finish the campaign. Even for someone who was happy to do the whole ToD campaign twice, SKT is just going way too far.
It's too late to take it all out, but plenty of little adjustments could easily be made for SKT to be a lot more palatable as content. Make stuff people don't like (fishing) optional but leave it in for those who do (then see how many people actually do it for enjoyment's sake). Increase voninblod rewards and lanolin drop rates. Change the way chests work in FBI to be consistent with other dungeons and up the rewards.
I'm really surprised that after all the negative feedback and the good suggestions to make this mod less of a PITA, making these tweaks doesn't seem to be more of a priority. Mod 10 was pretty bad, but it could be raised to bearable with some pretty minor tinkering.
Thanks.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
It stands for Dungeons & Dragons but if you think that's what it means, then you don't know D&D. D&D is roleplaying, which is more than just Dungeons or Dragons. The majority of D&D content does not consist of Dungeons or Dragons. Using the "D&D" term or words "Dungeons & Dragons" at face value as an argument against fishing (or any content that is not "Dungeons" or "Dragons") is hyperbolic at best and totally inaccurate at worst.
This and this 1000 times, i keep continuing to repeat this to myself.
Fishing as optional, fully ok, but as gated content, meh.
Tbh i love the fishing in Simril, i did it each year, but it was so optional and for me relaxing and well designed, but here it gates my progression and we already have way too much gates now in the game, there is the new weapon, FBI, IL, now the new trial requirements repeat the same as FBI and there are the invisible gates, like PVP, HDPS and so on.
Gates promote elitism and i hate it. I am sitting in a small guild full of casuals and we will probably never be able to do new content, cause even some of us have the required IL, many have "unlucky" accounts, no boots and so on and to top it, most of us hate running with bondings (makes content trivial and boring, degrades skill also) or many casuals don't have the necessary AD for it (remember the many AD nerfs lately?!), especially with pet gear out of the window now.
For me fishing is not just absurd because of the lack of real content, namely DUNGEONS and the bad loot in them, but that it is an additional gate and gates keep the majority of players away, especially casuals, what most of the population is or was to be more precise (checking my friend list, erm from about 140+ down to maybe 10 in rush hour, not good, not good at all and tbh i think they have voted against the new Mod, just silently, by leaving!!!).
What does Cryptic think, how long can they keep people running the same 2-3 mini/normal dungeons all day 24/7/365? We need content and in a DnD game it would be DUNGEON, that's why most of us started this game, if we knew it would be about fishing, most would have searched for a new game, you can bet on it. First we found the game and only then we had to live through Mod 6 disaster and now all but gated content, so you see it's not just about fishing, it's about gates and as above mentioned bad design regarding loot. It is insane that all i get is a peridot, if i am lucky in CN, up until end boss and then maybe a +1 ring, but a "lucky" account can fish up to 30 opals in 1 hour.
Some come here with the argument, skip it and buy it off of AH. I say to them sure, but from what and why? A MMORPG is about progression and fun to play the given content, if one has to buy his way out of the campaign, than there is something really wrong with the design and my second thought is from what, most newbies have very little AD to spare and they would rather buy enchants and stuff for better gear, not pay to skip play.
But i say to everyone who can't see the wood from the tree, go down to your local club, as i do it btw, ask to be a DM and present this to your players and better let them run a dungeon and give a peridot at the end of it, ha ha ha (Vincent Price style turned on) you will see how long you will be kept as a DM.
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
3
lantern22Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,111Arc User
It stands for Dungeons & Dragons but if you think that's what it means, then you don't know D&D. D&D is roleplaying, which is more than just Dungeons or Dragons. The majority of D&D content does not consist of Dungeons or Dragons. Using the "D&D" term or words "Dungeons & Dragons" at face value as an argument against fishing is hyperbolic at best and totally inaccurate at worst.
I go back a long way with D&D, back to the original. Played paper and dice D&D in the local club in the 70's and 80's. Never once can I remember rolling dice to catch some fish, never - not one single time, nor any similar activity. It was always about dungeons or some other kind of adventure. Yeah, there was much more to it than just hack and slash, there was problem solving, riddles etc. but this game has less and less of that as well as it goes on. I'm fairly confident that if we look up any of the Dungeon Master's guides, we wont find much on fishing or farming etc. And if a DM had tried to keep us occupied with that sort of thing for more than a few minutes, we all would have gone home.
I think your argument about D&D being about roleplaying and an activity like fishing fitting in, is way more spurious than someone stating that a supposedly "D&D" game should focus on dungeons and dragons.
What's next - asparagus farming? Lets get ourselves an epic plough from the Zen store, sow the field. Add a HE where you have to shoo away a pack of ravenous squirrels, it will be hard work unless you have your trusty +6 broom "excalibroom" (with three offensive enchant slots). You will need to farm straw, to keep the broom empowered tho. If rng is good to you, you might get the +10 Asparagus Spear of Constipation
bah I said I wasn't going to complain, didn't even last half a day, sorry . . . . .
It stands for Dungeons & Dragons but if you think that's what it means, then you don't know D&D. D&D is roleplaying, which is more than just Dungeons or Dragons. The majority of D&D content does not consist of Dungeons or Dragons. Using the "D&D" term or words "Dungeons & Dragons" at face value as an argument against fishing is hyperbolic at best and totally inaccurate at worst.
I go back a long way with D&D, back to the original. Played paper and dice D&D in the local club in the 70's and 80's. Never once can I remember rolling dice to catch some fish, never - not one single time, nor any similar activity. It was always about dungeons or some other kind of adventure. Yeah, there was much more to it than just hack and slash, there was problem solving, riddles etc. but this game has less and less of that as well as it goes on. I'm fairly confident that if we look up any of the Dungeon Master's guides, we wont find much on fishing or farming etc. And if a DM had tried to keep us occupied with that sort of thing for more than a few minutes, we all would have gone home.
I think your argument about D&D being about roleplaying and an activity like fishing fitting in, is way more spurious than someone stating that a supposedly "D&D" game should focus on dungeons and dragons.
What's next - asparagus farming? Lets get ourselves an epic plough from the Zen store, sow the field. Add a HE where you have to shoo away a pack of ravenous squirrels, it will be hard work unless you have your trusty +6 broom "excalibroom" (with three offensive enchant slots). You will need to farm straw, to keep the broom empowered tho. If rng is good to you, you might get the +10 Asparagus Spear of Constipation
bah I said I wasn't going to complain, didn't even last half a day, sorry . . . . .
It still doesnt deny the fact that D&D is a roleplaying game. We are on part of a mission to feed the army against the frost giants. The camp is short handed in finding food as food is scarce in the north and needed adventurers help to gather what ever food they can find. Well adventurer could do the slow way by fishing or they could turn in a cache of fish from chest they stumble upon. Any of those earn the favor of the tribe. So the element of roleplaying is still there.
While my Drow main might find it a bit demeaning to be fishing for a tribe of lazy unwashed Rivven (I aint eatin all that fish). I'm in the don't mind it, as I occassionally like a break from dodging Frost giant swings or Runechanged Troll explosions. On occassion, I like to check out what it is I might catch, but the real draw for me are the maps. Its been something of a treat to try and find where the treasure chest is buried. Sometimes the rewards are more fish (meh), sometimes some nice refinement items (SWEET!). As long as the devs don't take this as a signal that I want more of the same in future content, I'm good.
...The majority of D&D content does not consist of Dungeons or Dragons....
Yes, we know, Cryptic made sure of that.
Everything they add to the game must be approved by Wizards of the Coast in advance. So obviously, WoTC had no issues with the fishing, and they are the makers of D&D.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
...The majority of D&D content does not consist of Dungeons or Dragons....
Yes, we know, Cryptic made sure of that.
Everything they add to the game must be approved by Wizards of the Coast in advance. So obviously, WoTC had no issues with the fishing, and they are the makers of D&D.
Yes, they sold that to WotC really good. A good salesman can do that you know.
I'm pretty sure the next module will revolve around bird watching.
All of you that like this are probably those "select few" that give feedback to developers on what the whole community wants.
1
therealprotexMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 526Arc User
Most of my guild has stated that they enjoy fishing. A few of them don't. Personally, if you don't like it - you can skip it by buying a bunch of the map in a bottle and just going treasure hunting. You get fish from the treasure chest, so really there is not much reason at all to fish if you hate it that much.
Silverkelt had a very valid and important point: give fishing the same rewards as a T2/T3 dungeon has and start the poll over. I bet my hamster that the poll would look totally different and that almost noone would... "enjoy" fishing anymore. People do not enjoy it for the fishing experience, they enjoy it for the rewards. And getting the best rewards from fishing and not from a dungeon feels simply wrong in a D&D game.
1
therealprotexMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 526Arc User
It stands for Dungeons & Dragons but if you think that's what it means, then you don't know D&D. D&D is roleplaying, which is more than just Dungeons or Dragons. The majority of D&D content does not consist of Dungeons or Dragons. Using the "D&D" term or words "Dungeons & Dragons" at face value as an argument against fishing (or any content that is not "Dungeons" or "Dragons") is hyperbolic at best and totally inaccurate at worst.
Sorry, but this is simply BS. Organize a table top D&D evening and invite experienced D&D players. Then offer them an evening of exiting fishing and you'll only see dust of them when they run out of your house. Continuously repeating nonsense like that (or that in most MMORPGs fishing plays a major role) does not make it true.
Edit: I just saw that lantern22 mentioned that already.
2
lantern22Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,111Arc User
It stands for Dungeons & Dragons but if you think that's what it means, then you don't know D&D. D&D is roleplaying, which is more than just Dungeons or Dragons. The majority of D&D content does not consist of Dungeons or Dragons. Using the "D&D" term or words "Dungeons & Dragons" at face value as an argument against fishing is hyperbolic at best and totally inaccurate at worst.
I go back a long way with D&D, back to the original. Played paper and dice D&D in the local club in the 70's and 80's. Never once can I remember rolling dice to catch some fish, never - not one single time, nor any similar activity. It was always about dungeons or some other kind of adventure. Yeah, there was much more to it than just hack and slash, there was problem solving, riddles etc. but this game has less and less of that as well as it goes on. I'm fairly confident that if we look up any of the Dungeon Master's guides, we wont find much on fishing or farming etc. And if a DM had tried to keep us occupied with that sort of thing for more than a few minutes, we all would have gone home.
I think your argument about D&D being about roleplaying and an activity like fishing fitting in, is way more spurious than someone stating that a supposedly "D&D" game should focus on dungeons and dragons.
What's next - asparagus farming? Lets get ourselves an epic plough from the Zen store, sow the field. Add a HE where you have to shoo away a pack of ravenous squirrels, it will be hard work unless you have your trusty +6 broom "excalibroom" (with three offensive enchant slots). You will need to farm straw, to keep the broom empowered tho. If rng is good to you, you might get the +10 Asparagus Spear of Constipation
bah I said I wasn't going to complain, didn't even last half a day, sorry . . . . .
It still doesnt deny the fact that D&D is a roleplaying game. We are on part of a mission to feed the army against the frost giants. The camp is short handed in finding food as food is scarce in the north and needed adventurers help to gather what ever food they can find. Well adventurer could do the slow way by fishing or they could turn in a cache of fish from chest they stumble upon. Any of those earn the favor of the tribe. So the element of roleplaying is still there.
But if we are role playing (with any sort of authenticity) then who is going to role play a extremely high level adventurer that has got there by blasting his/her way through countless epic foes and then decides to spend all day (days / weeks / months) fishing like a common Lvl 0 peasant? It makes little to no sense as a main quest line, well that's my opinion anyway.
1
therealprotexMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 526Arc User
Everything they add to the game must be approved by Wizards of the Coast in advance. So obviously, WoTC had no issues with the fishing, and they are the makers of D&D.
No, that would be Gary Gygax, and he'd rotate in his grave if he saw what WotC approved for a D&D game.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
If anyone likes a fishing simulator, Google will find you a list of arguably the "best PC fishing games". This is a D&D game, and not some silly and boring F&D (<- yes, "Fishing & Dragons") game. What's next, a Farming-Simulator 2016 adaption? I am sure, the Farmers in Rothe Valley would apprechiate our help... *rolleyes*</p>
I have physical books that show that there is indeed Fishing in D&D, and no Google needed for that.
It stands for Dungeons & Dragons but if you think that's what it means, then you don't know D&D. D&D is roleplaying, which is more than just Dungeons or Dragons. The majority of D&D content does not consist of Dungeons or Dragons. Using the "D&D" term or words "Dungeons & Dragons" at face value as an argument against fishing (or any content that is not "Dungeons" or "Dragons") is hyperbolic at best and totally inaccurate at worst.
Sorry, but this is simply BS. Organize a table top D&D evening and invite experienced D&D players. Then offer them an evening of exiting fishing and you'll only see dust of them when they run out of your house. Continuously repeating nonsense like that (or that in most MMORPGs fishing plays a major role) does not make it true.
Edit: I just saw that lantern22 mentioned that already.
I never said it is something to take up an entire gaming session. You're just arguing to the extreme and failing. Many of my players have occasionally fished to gain food for the rest of the journey. If you've never had to fend for yourself for food and water, then you had a very relaxed DM. The following example dialog is something that is all too common in both my Campaign and in the Campaigns I played in.
DM: "So, after journeying the rest of the day after your victorious encounter with a band of brigands on your journey to the Ruins you were tasked with exploring, you all settle into your chosen campsite inside a small forest bordering a fresh water stream."*The DM knowing a few are low on rations*"You're pretty sure that it's safe as it can be to try and get some rest or have a meal. Is there anything special you want to do?"
Player 1 and 2: "Let's eat!"
DM: "Bob, John, as you both dig through your backpacks you realize that you're getting low on rations and only have enough for one more meal."
Player 1: "Ah, shoot! Wasn't there a stream closeby?"
DM: "Yes, you're camped just a few hundred feet away."
Player 2: "My rations are low too, why don't you go fishing and I'll go see if I can catch some game."
DM: "Okay, Bob, you head off to the stream and John, you head off into the darkness of the woods with your bow and arrows. Bob, you find a good spot that you're sure some nocturnal fish make their home and you're easily able to find some insects to use as bait."
Player 1: "I bait my hook and cast it out into the water."
DM: "Okay, roll your Fishing Proficiency check!"
Player 1: "I rolled a 5 and my Wisdom is 18."
DM: "Great! You fished for a couple hours and caught... *rolls 2d4* ... 6 fish!"
Player 1: "I thank Tyché and give one back to the stream, heading back to the campsite with 5 fish."
DM: "So, John, roll your Hunting Proficiency check."
Player 2: "I rolled a 17 and my Wisdom is 16."
DM: "You were out hunting for a couple hours. You had one really close shot with you bow but all you managed to do was scare the squirrel out of your sight. You decide you had better head back and hope that Bob fared better than you...."
So, yeah. It would be really silly to have your party fish all session long. But no one is suggesting that. I even stated in my first post in this thread that this fishing mechanic needs to be made voluntary and not a mandatory part of progression. Doing so would make it in line with D&D and what D&D "stands" for.
So, yeah. It would be really silly to have your party fish all session long. But no one is suggesting that. I even stated in my first post in this thread that this fishing mechanic needs to be made voluntary and not a mandatory part of progression. Doing so would make it in line with D&D and what D&D "stands" for.
I agree to that one. Alas, it IS mandatory, and as it is, I never want to see it again.
0
kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
So, yeah. It would be really silly to have your party fish all session long. But no one is suggesting that. I even stated in my first post in this thread that this fishing mechanic needs to be made voluntary and not a mandatory part of progression. Doing so would make it in line with D&D and what D&D "stands" for.
I agree to that one. Alas, it IS mandatory, and as it is, I never want to see it again.
I disagree to a point. It's not mandatory. You can choose to buy maps (or have a nice friend give you some) and then get your fish purely from treasure hunting. You do not HAVE to fish.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
I love the fishing and can think of a few areas i think would be fun to fish in. I have played just about every mmo out there and the small things like fishing you can do now and than are great. You do NOT have to do these things but they usually make other things in the game a bit easier to do. I actually had to force myself to go back to the grind so i dont burn out on fishing
If we get more mini games like this I will be one happy fisherman.... I mean player
If anyone likes a fishing simulator, Google will find you a list of arguably the "best PC fishing games". This is a D&D game, and not some silly and boring F&D (<- yes, "Fishing & Dragons") game. What's next, a Farming-Simulator 2016 adaption? I am sure, the Farmers in Rothe Valley would apprechiate our help... *rolleyes*</p>
I have physical books that show that there is indeed Fishing in D&D, and no Google needed for that.
It stands for Dungeons & Dragons but if you think that's what it means, then you don't know D&D. D&D is roleplaying, which is more than just Dungeons or Dragons. The majority of D&D content does not consist of Dungeons or Dragons. Using the "D&D" term or words "Dungeons & Dragons" at face value as an argument against fishing (or any content that is not "Dungeons" or "Dragons") is hyperbolic at best and totally inaccurate at worst.
Sorry, but this is simply BS. Organize a table top D&D evening and invite experienced D&D players. Then offer them an evening of exiting fishing and you'll only see dust of them when they run out of your house. Continuously repeating nonsense like that (or that in most MMORPGs fishing plays a major role) does not make it true.
Edit: I just saw that lantern22 mentioned that already.
I never said it is something to take up an entire gaming session. You're just arguing to the extreme and failing. Many of my players have occasionally fished to gain food for the rest of the journey. If you've never had to fend for yourself for food and water, then you had a very relaxed DM. The following example dialog is something that is all too common in both my Campaign and in the Campaigns I played in.
DM: "So, after journeying the rest of the day after your victorious encounter with a band of brigands on your journey to the Ruins you were tasked with exploring, you all settle into your chosen campsite inside a small forest bordering a fresh water stream."*The DM knowing a few are low on rations*"You're pretty sure that it's safe as it can be to try and get some rest or have a meal. Is there anything special you want to do?"
Player 1 and 2: "Let's eat!"
DM: "Bob, John, as you both dig through your backpacks you realize that you're getting low on rations and only have enough for one more meal."
Player 1: "Ah, shoot! Wasn't there a stream closeby?"
DM: "Yes, you're camped just a few hundred feet away."
Player 2: "My rations are low too, why don't you go fishing and I'll go see if I can catch some game."
DM: "Okay, Bob, you head off to the stream and John, you head off into the darkness of the woods with your bow and arrows. Bob, you find a good spot that you're sure some nocturnal fish make their home and you're easily able to find some insects to use as bait."
Player 1: "I bait my hook and cast it out into the water."
DM: "Okay, roll your Fishing Proficiency check!"
Player 1: "I rolled a 5 and my Wisdom is 18."
DM: "Great! You fished for a couple hours and caught... *rolls 2d4* ... 6 fish!"
Player 1: "I thank Tyché and give one back to the stream, heading back to the campsite with 5 fish."
DM: "So, John, roll your Hunting Proficiency check."
Player 2: "I rolled a 17 and my Wisdom is 16."
DM: "You were out hunting for a couple hours. You had one really close shot with you bow but all you managed to do was scare the squirrel out of your sight. You decide you had better head back and hope that Bob fared better than you...."
So, yeah. It would be really silly to have your party fish all session long. But no one is suggesting that. I even stated in my first post in this thread that this fishing mechanic needs to be made voluntary and not a mandatory part of progression. Doing so would make it in line with D&D and what D&D "stands" for.
If those fishes do not take bag spaces, I would say it is fine. For now, it is not fine. You need fishes to progress, that means more bag sorting&management. So I hate it and it is one of the reason I skip mod 10.5 entirely.
If those fishes do not take bag spaces, I would say it is fine. For now, it is not fine. You need fishes to progress, that means more bag sorting&management. So I hate it and it is one of the reason I skip mod 10.5 entirely.
No argument from me about that. Ugh. Did we really need 91 different types of fish plus new RP items to clog our already overclogged inventory?
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If those fishes do not take bag spaces, I would say it is fine. For now, it is not fine. You need fishes to progress, that means more bag sorting&management. So I hate it and it is one of the reason I skip mod 10.5 entirely.
Yup they need to be in their own special "bag" like the currencies or profession stuffs. For now, my work around is - try to fish at the same spot for each session - that will net only a few types of fishes, so a bit less than fishing in multiple spots. Also those fishes go to the overflow bag when caught/found in treasures, so you can store them there temporarily - might be a bit of a work when turning in to the fishmonger though. Another thing is, throw the white fishes that gives the least points away to make space for other high rarity ones. Hope this help elevate the bag space problem for a bit!
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I even heard today, that they cant possible put this stuff in FBI loot, because fbi is too easy to defeat basically and so its better to leave it in fishing.
The only issue I have, the ONLY issue I have at all is that I have to do it to progress, if they just ADDED everything I needed to get the stuff in FBI, I would be A ok, I would have a reason to RUN fbi.. and thus the dungeon would be much better.
Why is it ok that you can pull a freaking brilliant diamond out of a fishing gut basically, but you know.. get that awesome aquamarine in FBI end chest.
None of this makes any sense.
Lets be truthful and honest.. if you removed rewards from fishing.. only like 100 people ever would do this stuff.
It's completely okay for fishing to be rewarding. It's not ok for the dungeons to not be rewarding. It's not ok for the only rewarding activity in the game to be fishing.
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Not that 10-20 ppl is a significant sample size tho.
I agree with you, I hate / loath / despise it. But if other ppl like it, meh I'll stop complaining about it (well I'll complain less)
Ps. and obviously pretzels don't make everyone thirsty
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Becky is right.. 100% .. that is the issue, when dungeons reward a pittance of what you get fishing, something is just way off.
I could care less if poeple are pulling brilliant diamonds out of fish guts basically, I do care that the same amount of time put into running a FBI rewards me 1 salvage piece.. wtf.
Just WTF .
I'd say, the ones who outright enjoys it are slightly less than the ones that dislike it but most of my guildies really didn't mind it - if they don't wanna fish they just head off for the BHEs. The lack of content does bother me though - and it seems like the devs took the easy way out with this mod, but that doesn't mean fishing is bad. It's just fishing with nothing else that's bad.
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Now compare the problematic SKT campaign zones to Sharandar and Dread Ring, which are both more enjoyable to play and also give RP and marks as a reason to keep going back. Why can't the new zones also give reward that are useful outside of the campaign? If content is going to be like this from now on, at least give us a spoonful of sugar to help us gag it down.
Fishing seems like a vanity project that got way out of control. It's not thematically appropriate to the game but is getting resources at the expense of more important activities like restoring old dungeons and adding new ones, it's not implemented very well, it causes problems with inventory management and rather than being something for people to do it if they like it was made part of gear progression.
Right now it's being over-rewarded as a source of AD (compared to core game activities like, oh I don't know, running dungeons and killing dragons) in an apparent attempt to bribe us to do it. Presumably that way the team can claim it as a success because some people will put up with it to make money in-game. I have seen a few people on the forums here and on Reddit claiming to like fishing, but there are loads more who don't, and I've never heard anyone say in game that they like it.
If I were a little more paranoid, I might think that some activities added to the game are almost a dare not to play or some social science experiment in how unpleasant you can make some parts of the game before diehard supporters leave.
Here's some new armour with a marginal power increase, now spend hours farming voninblod to keep it empowered (lessons from IWD gear and dungeons not learnt). Here's a new dungeon with a very high entry requirement, now spend time and effort to get in and then choke on the poor rewards. Oh, and to top it all off, here's some more fishing for those of you who put up with all of that other stuff if you want to finish the campaign. Even for someone who was happy to do the whole ToD campaign twice, SKT is just going way too far.
It's too late to take it all out, but plenty of little adjustments could easily be made for SKT to be a lot more palatable as content. Make stuff people don't like (fishing) optional but leave it in for those who do (then see how many people actually do it for enjoyment's sake). Increase voninblod rewards and lanolin drop rates. Change the way chests work in FBI to be consistent with other dungeons and up the rewards.
I'm really surprised that after all the negative feedback and the good suggestions to make this mod less of a PITA, making these tweaks doesn't seem to be more of a priority. Mod 10 was pretty bad, but it could be raised to bearable with some pretty minor tinkering.
Thanks.
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Fishing as optional, fully ok, but as gated content, meh.
Tbh i love the fishing in Simril, i did it each year, but it was so optional and for me relaxing and well designed, but here it gates my progression and we already have way too much gates now in the game, there is the new weapon, FBI, IL, now the new trial requirements repeat the same as FBI and there are the invisible gates, like PVP, HDPS and so on.
Gates promote elitism and i hate it. I am sitting in a small guild full of casuals and we will probably never be able to do new content, cause even some of us have the required IL, many have "unlucky" accounts, no boots and so on and to top it, most of us hate running with bondings (makes content trivial and boring, degrades skill also) or many casuals don't have the necessary AD for it (remember the many AD nerfs lately?!), especially with pet gear out of the window now.
For me fishing is not just absurd because of the lack of real content, namely DUNGEONS and the bad loot in them, but that it is an additional gate and gates keep the majority of players away, especially casuals, what most of the population is or was to be more precise (checking my friend list, erm from about 140+ down to maybe 10 in rush hour, not good, not good at all and tbh i think they have voted against the new Mod, just silently, by leaving!!!).
What does Cryptic think, how long can they keep people running the same 2-3 mini/normal dungeons all day 24/7/365? We need content and in a DnD game it would be DUNGEON, that's why most of us started this game, if we knew it would be about fishing, most would have searched for a new game, you can bet on it. First we found the game and only then we had to live through Mod 6 disaster and now all but gated content, so you see it's not just about fishing, it's about gates and as above mentioned bad design regarding loot. It is insane that all i get is a peridot, if i am lucky in CN, up until end boss and then maybe a +1 ring, but a "lucky" account can fish up to 30 opals in 1 hour.
Some come here with the argument, skip it and buy it off of AH. I say to them sure, but from what and why? A MMORPG is about progression and fun to play the given content, if one has to buy his way out of the campaign, than there is something really wrong with the design and my second thought is from what, most newbies have very little AD to spare and they would rather buy enchants and stuff for better gear, not pay to skip play.
But i say to everyone who can't see the wood from the tree, go down to your local club, as i do it btw, ask to be a DM and present this to your players and better let them run a dungeon and give a peridot at the end of it, ha ha ha (Vincent Price style turned on) you will see how long you will be kept as a DM.
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I think your argument about D&D being about roleplaying and an activity like fishing fitting in, is way more spurious than someone stating that a supposedly "D&D" game should focus on dungeons and dragons.
What's next - asparagus farming? Lets get ourselves an epic plough from the Zen store, sow the field. Add a HE where you have to shoo away a pack of ravenous squirrels, it will be hard work unless you have your trusty +6 broom "excalibroom" (with three offensive enchant slots). You will need to farm straw, to keep the broom empowered tho. If rng is good to you, you might get the +10 Asparagus Spear of Constipation
bah I said I wasn't going to complain, didn't even last half a day, sorry . . . . .
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I'm pretty sure the next module will revolve around bird watching.
All of you that like this are probably those "select few" that give feedback to developers on what the whole community wants.
Edit: I just saw that lantern22 mentioned that already.
I never said it is something to take up an entire gaming session. You're just arguing to the extreme and failing. Many of my players have occasionally fished to gain food for the rest of the journey. If you've never had to fend for yourself for food and water, then you had a very relaxed DM. The following example dialog is something that is all too common in both my Campaign and in the Campaigns I played in.
DM: "So, after journeying the rest of the day after your victorious encounter with a band of brigands on your journey to the Ruins you were tasked with exploring, you all settle into your chosen campsite inside a small forest bordering a fresh water stream." *The DM knowing a few are low on rations* "You're pretty sure that it's safe as it can be to try and get some rest or have a meal. Is there anything special you want to do?"
Player 1 and 2: "Let's eat!"
DM: "Bob, John, as you both dig through your backpacks you realize that you're getting low on rations and only have enough for one more meal."
Player 1: "Ah, shoot! Wasn't there a stream closeby?"
DM: "Yes, you're camped just a few hundred feet away."
Player 2: "My rations are low too, why don't you go fishing and I'll go see if I can catch some game."
DM: "Okay, Bob, you head off to the stream and John, you head off into the darkness of the woods with your bow and arrows. Bob, you find a good spot that you're sure some nocturnal fish make their home and you're easily able to find some insects to use as bait."
Player 1: "I bait my hook and cast it out into the water."
DM: "Okay, roll your Fishing Proficiency check!"
Player 1: "I rolled a 5 and my Wisdom is 18."
DM: "Great! You fished for a couple hours and caught... *rolls 2d4* ... 6 fish!"
Player 1: "I thank Tyché and give one back to the stream, heading back to the campsite with 5 fish."
DM: "So, John, roll your Hunting Proficiency check."
Player 2: "I rolled a 17 and my Wisdom is 16."
DM: "You were out hunting for a couple hours. You had one really close shot with you bow but all you managed to do was scare the squirrel out of your sight. You decide you had better head back and hope that Bob fared better than you...."
So, yeah. It would be really silly to have your party fish all session long. But no one is suggesting that. I even stated in my first post in this thread that this fishing mechanic needs to be made voluntary and not a mandatory part of progression. Doing so would make it in line with D&D and what D&D "stands" for.
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If we get more mini games like this I will be one happy fisherman.... I mean player
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