Hey guys, does Shield hp from Binding Oath and Absolution stacks? As far as i know temporary hp does not...
Even if they do stack its all just temp hp. Doesnt matter what its called, the devs pretty much just made all powers the same. Templar - temp hp, BO - temp hp, Absolution - temp hp. The Paladin's abilities were almost the same anyway and instead of moving away from that they go ahead and make theme even more alike. What is needed for a tank is a solid second layer of resistance to block the biggest killer hits. For the GF that role is filled by his Block, for Paladin tanks that role was filled by Binding Oath. So now what? I did a pug CN in Live last night, the party was quite good albeit in the lower item level range. I tried to hold off my Binding Oath with Orcus, trying everything else to tank him and it just doesnt work, I take a few hits and at some point its either use BO or die and fail the run for the whole party. Call me negative but I think mod 10.5 tanking will have the pally tank stuck in that point exactly where we die and fail run after run till nobody runs with us anymore.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
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darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,259Arc User
Even if they do stack its all just temp hp. Doesnt matter what its called, the devs pretty much just made all powers the same. Templar - temp hp, BO - temp hp, Absolution - temp hp. The Paladin's abilities were almost the same anyway and instead of moving away from that they go ahead and make theme even more alike. What is needed for a tank is a solid second layer of resistance to block the biggest killer hits. For the GF that role is filled by his Block, for Paladin tanks that role was filled by Binding Oath. So now what? I did a pug CN in Live last night, the party was quite good albeit in the lower item level range. I tried to hold off my Binding Oath with Orcus, trying everything else to tank him and it just doesnt work, I take a few hits and at some point its either use BO or die and fail the run for the whole party. Call me negative but I think mod 10.5 tanking will have the pally tank stuck in that point exactly where we die and fail run after run till nobody runs with us anymore.
Well I said I am not ok with all the changes, and they need some adjustments (feedback already posted in this thread) but that said:
Your comments are unrealistic pesimistic and not true.
First, the HP granted by new BO is shield not temp hp, so is ANOTHER LAYER of HP. You have HP, temp HP and SHIELD. 3 bars of effective HP. Is a different mechanic and you have to know how it works to get the most of it.
Second, you are trying IN LIVE SERVER so absolution is not updated and you are not using new BO so who are you trying to convince with that useless test?
Please be a bit more optimistic, and I repeat, I dont think everything is fine with the changes, but they are not what you are saying and you will still see paladins in runs. Those who adapt.
Even if they do stack its all just temp hp. Doesnt matter what its called, the devs pretty much just made all powers the same. Templar - temp hp, BO - temp hp, Absolution - temp hp. The Paladin's abilities were almost the same anyway and instead of moving away from that they go ahead and make theme even more alike. What is needed for a tank is a solid second layer of resistance to block the biggest killer hits. For the GF that role is filled by his Block, for Paladin tanks that role was filled by Binding Oath. So now what? I did a pug CN in Live last night, the party was quite good albeit in the lower item level range. I tried to hold off my Binding Oath with Orcus, trying everything else to tank him and it just doesnt work, I take a few hits and at some point its either use BO or die and fail the run for the whole party. Call me negative but I think mod 10.5 tanking will have the pally tank stuck in that point exactly where we die and fail run after run till nobody runs with us anymore.
Well I said I am not ok with all the changes, and they need some adjustments (feedback already posted in this thread) but that said:
Your comments are unrealistic pesimistic and not true.
First, the HP granted by new BO is shield not temp hp, so is ANOTHER LAYER of HP. You have HP, temp HP and SHIELD. 3 bars of effective HP. Is a different mechanic and you have to know how it works to get the most of it.
Second, you are trying IN LIVE SERVER so absolution is not updated and you are not using new BO so who are you trying to convince with that useless test?
Please be a bit more optimistic, and I repeat, I dont think everything is fine with the changes, but they are not what you are saying and you will still see paladins in runs. Those who adapt.
1 question for you - have you tanked Orcus on Preview? If you havent then anything you post is just your point of view same as what I post is mine.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
At 3.2k and 74% DR I have actively tried tanking Orcus without using BO several times and on some occasions I've done alright for a couple of minutes but it always ended the same way - he gets in a good combination, like 3 crits in a row and death is inevitable.
Cryptic have made it abundantly clear that Pally survivability is not a good thing (even though it's the definition of how they've built the class). They are more interested in keeping their new content 'difficult' than keeping a class relevant. Lets be clear, they see the Paladin as the problem and are prepared to sacrifice the Protection path. That's why they've not said a word since making this thread - they have no intention of balancing it, these changes are for their 'big picture' goal and pally players need to wake up and understand that no matter what we say they are going to effectively shelve the class.
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darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,259Arc User
1 question for you - have you tanked Orcus on Preview? If you havent then anything you post is just your point of view same as what I post is mine.
I couldnt find a group for CN when I connected to preview, but I tested the changes and I am pretty sure It can be done and wont be so hard.
For your information I did tank Orcus in live with no binding oath (it was hard), and still this doesnt matter because my OP is at 4,1k IL atm and is not a good sample, in live or in preview. So even if I did the test in preview wont be valid for you or other players because the 90% of the population is at 2,5k-3,3k.
Even with current BO there is alot OP who fail to tank Orcus in pug or premade.
If the shield hp from absolution and binding oath accumulative there is still hope for high GS OP .
Sadly to say I agree that 90% of population which consist of 2.5k-3.3k probably wont make it through Orcus door and Fangbreaker Island.
Thats exactly right. Sometimes its due to a lag spike, sometimes it feels like Orcus kills even through BO and sometimes the pally in question simply doesnt have enough recharge to keep casting BO back to back. In any case current BO is not absolute. Paladins still die (and just in case I have to say this is true for the average IL, bis is another story)
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
I also dont think we will get the full understanding of how the changes really affect us until the patch goes live. This is simply because I dont think anyone here has been able to fully test the changes on most situations on preview. Unlike the SW and CW communities, we dont have someone like @thefabricant or @fernuu to fully take apart the class and the changes anymore and then speak on our behalf...
I also dont think we will get the full understanding of how the changes really affect us until the patch goes live. This is simply because I dont think anyone here has been able to fully test the changes on most situations on preview. Unlike the SW and CW communities, we dont have someone like @thefabricant or @fernuu to fully take apart the class and the changes anymore and then speak on our behalf...
You know the big HE in Bryn Shander, the one where the Ramoraz and the Yeti are fighting. All mobs do a lot of damage there, not sure how much totally but some of their hits can KO. Anyway I went there solo with the pally(preview) and was able to fight them for quite some time(till i got bored) with the new BO, Templar and the new Absolution. Is that an indication that I can tank Orcus? - Ive no idea
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
null Try the heroic encounter of the giants that throw the massive rocks in bryn shander, that could answer your question. These things 1 shot my gf through the shield, I wonder if 200k+ hp could help to survive that hit.
Try the heroic encounter of the giants that throw the massive rocks in bryn shander, that could answer your question. These things 1 shot my gf through the shield, I wonder if 200k+ hp could help to survive that hit.
The one you have to initiate? That one kills me on live regardless of BO.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
null The one that has like 2 giants, 1 white dragon and tons of goblins but you may be right, 1 prot op I know got 1 shotted by that enemy even though he's pretty tanky.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Half the powers dont generate divine energy, the other half dont generate AP. The best aura we have kills us in PVP (bug as old as the paladin). Nerf after nerf since the class was introduced and finally reduced to a paper tank in mod 10.5. Did I miss anything ?
Post edited by emilemo on
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Half the powers dont generate divine energy, the other half dont generate AP. The best aura we have kills in PVP (bug as old as the paladin). Nerf after nerf since the class was introduced and finally reduced to a paper tank in mod 10.5. Did I miss anything ?
u miss ninja nerf on owlbear so op lost other substantial source to do dps too...for the rest u perfectly have summarized status of the class...They have always taken away and never gave anything to op. Ty Emilemo, 'cause i can't post "comments unconfortable".
Half the powers dont generate divine energy, the other half dont generate AP. The best aura we have kills us in PVP (bug as old as the paladin). Nerf after nerf since the class was introduced and finally reduced to a paper tank in mod 10.5. Did I miss anything ?" _________________
Nope. Devs wanted to kill the class cause it was irrelevant for mod 10. Why else do we have what you listed?
Devs did say that the Paladin didnt fit with their vision for mod 10 and fbi. You know, invulnerability making content trivial yada yada yada... Though I agree with that, what they delivered is nothing short of an insult and travesty!
Well since this patch goes live today it will be real interesting to see how the PC OPP players see these changes and please if possible post feedback here so us on consoles can either adjust or shelve, and the bug on ap gain on burning light is very disheartening but because in group you will have to slot COP or Absolution it probably won't matter because of the owlbear nerf. Feedback on Sacred Weapon change would be very much appreciated.
null I think that absolution, templar's wrath and binding oath could be a good combo for boss fights but yeah, we console players really are looking forward to checking feedback from pc guys. My main is a gf but have been pugging a lot less recently and run with friends instead, one of them is a prot OP and we have been testing combinations of skills and such, it's really fun as he plays mostly as dps and I'm the team's buff bot, I wonder how these changes are going to affect the survability of paladins and the time it takes us to complete a cn and such. I guess as always, high levelg uys will still perfom excellently and those in the 2k - 2,5k il range (especially if guildless), if pugging, may get crushed by Orcus.
Prot paladin guys, correct me if I am wrong but is isn't your class becoming a very expensive one? Like, pre-bubble nerf very low il and stas ones could tank just about everything just fine but now it will be necessary to spend some serious ad and rp to be very self suficient (aka not depending on healers to survive all but toughest fights like maybe fbi dungeon in mod 10.5?). Or is my guess wrong and it will still be possible to build beast paladins without investing much? What about pvp? Are those binding oath changes affect tankiness in a sigfinicant way? If those changes make the paladin kind of an eady target for dunk rogues and such, shouldn't the damage outpout be increased to compensate that loss in survability?
I still think the savage nerf to SWs is worse though, not buffing their encounter, at will and overal daily damage to compensate for TC nerf (40% - 60% dps loss) so the class can still be very competitive is really bad althought not a surprise, the warlock will once again take an eternity before it gets some changes, if they ever do it that's it, the game may have a much smaller playerbase by then.
The new super grindy mods and bad ideas will kill the game, I can see it already, the devs:
"We are pleased to let you guys know we have patched a glitch whereby players were able to get zen by farming ad and then exchanging it, now you can only buy it in the zen market.
No, we are not laughing very hard as we post this announcement (lol).
Im gonna say it right now. I will not be testing the Paladin changes now that they are Live. @asterdahl opened this thread and disappeared. So Mr. Dev, sir, if you had intended for this feedback thread to collect feedback only after the changes go Live you should've said so, even better you shouldn't have opened it at all earlier than mod 10.5 launch date. All this thread accomplished was add insult to injury. Your studio deserves to go bankrupt and maybe then some studio with actual skill in game developing and game running will pick up the IP.
As for the game, anything that required Binding Oath I will not run. My dungeon runs go up to CN and stop right there at the door step. I wont be subjecting myself to voluntary frustration. If other pally players test the changes and find them enjoyable - good for you guys.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
I've only really started posting here as some of the upcoming changes is going to change a lot of things.
I honestly think you are very much mistaken with the paladin been "immune" to damage. Sure our encounter allows us to be immune for 8 seconds but then we take the hit as a big clump I am a ps4 3.3k pally and if i was to sit in some AOEs and stuff and think myself immune I'd be dead... gone... beasted... wrecked and get gud son because i'd be one shot dead after the timer runs out. In FBI if i sit in the rocks thrown by the giants am thrown to the floor and unable to get up for a couple of seconds usually resulting in DEATH maybe not straight away but after the 8 seconds am toast.
My point is that the way the paladin works now is very fluid and effective and im totally A-OKAY with been the tank that comes in when its difficult i like that i joined this game for that challenge to rock up and take the fight when nobody else will and it is risk vs. reward at this very moment and that is why i was the paladin instead of a GF.
I hate to say it but I've put a lot of time effort and money into my pally as it costs a hell of a lot to min/max everything if you continue down this road of wasting resources to completely change powersets then they is no point building a maxed character because you'll just change it every couple of months... totally pointless.
And still no answers from @terramak or @asterdahl on the bugs with AP generation or divine call energy; nor have they responded to any of our feedback. Well, their silence sums it up perfectly...
RIP Oathbound Paladin, youre no longer relevant in our plans.
The dev who had a clue is gone. #gentlemancrush created the class but he is no longer with Cryptic is he. The guys in charge of actual developing now are not only bad at coding (the avalanche of bugs is proof) but also have no idea what to do with the Paladin class. Its a bad situation with no improvement in sight.
The new Binding Oath returns unmitigated damage equal to 50% of the Paladin HP! Imagine you use BO in the middle of 10 weak monsters, all of them couldn't really damage you if they tried but with BO on upon expiration you will be hit with 50% of your HP in piercing damage. Make the damage return from BO go thru the Paladin DR before it goes to our health bar!
Post edited by emilemo on
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Theyre not gonna answer. They havent taken a look at this thread or responded to it since its creation, which tells us what they think about our opinion.
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gormenghast1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 88Arc User
I'd like to share another elegant ninja nerf that mainly affects OP's utility DPS-wise, for all those that own an owlbear cub and thought of being at least still of some use to a party as mediocre damage dealers thanks to the pet active power + burning light.
As tested on pts, now the damage procs only on the first tick of BL instead of proccing on every tick as it did till now.
With the tanking capabilities severely nerfed, every possible damage increase taken away, the pile of bugs affecting bot PvE and PvP that have never been addressed since the class inception, in regards of this:
Although we'd like both tanks to feel and play differently, these are not the two niches we'd like them to fill, as it feels bad for everyone. We'd like to continue to bring them closer together in terms of their usefulness and apologize for the bumpy road as we get there.
I don't have the slightest idea of what niche should be filled by an OP in the future but, after yet another nerf to the class, at the moment it coincides with a trash can. The OP is a primary tank class, not an off-tank needing a buddy GF or tanky companion to avoid being melted by Orcus or similar bosses in 3 or 4 hits. We OP players never asked for broken powers that made players forget what a dodge is, we are not responsible for how these powers are coded and we chose and invested in this class because playing an evil-smiter holy fighter could be fun. Sadly now our Divine Judgement is more than a Divine Scolding, Our insanely-high-casting-time Heroism had its duration halved, Our Aura of Courage becomes an Aura of Suicide in PvP once we get marked and we dare to use our class feature, our Binding Oath has become a negligible HP shield, our shield is made of cardboard and doesn't help resisting unmitigable dmg (when it doesn't decide to bug out and don't activate at all), and the list could go on. Ah! obviously Divine Protector, which imho shouldn't have ever existed in the first place and gave the OP a role in parties for all the wrong reasons.
Any time the paladin was touched, it has always been to take something away and never to give. Other classes had balance passes that gave them different but still viable ways to be useful both in PvE and PvP, which has never been an option for the OP players. There is no adapting, only coping with an ever growing misery. I suppose the whole OP community would appreciate seeing some building after all these demolitions, if it means something to the devs.
@asterdahl ok I understand you wanting to kill Binding Oath. That's been a complete success as the skill now effectively deals the 50% return as piercing damage making it unusable. Fine, no pally will ever use it again.
Can I at least ask you to look at three things:
1. Give a Taunt effect to Templar's Wrath so it has the same aggro effect as Enforced Threat from the GF? (or copy/paste the forced threat from BO to TW). This is fair seeing as BO absolutely cannot be slotted as it will kill the pally every time even in mobs with no RI (piercing dmg feedback).
2. Make Burning Light able to charge whilst moving so it can be unleashed when the Pally goes into a fight rather than standing still for several seconds being useless - I believe this is a decent change as it now cannot multi-proc the owlbear companion and does not provide AP gain.
3. Change the knockback on Relentless Assault to a knockdown. This skill is unusable in groups as it scatters enemies to the wind. The GF has 3 charge skills and all of them are usable in groups.
Neither of these things add to Pally survivability but do increase the class utility by generating more threat.
I now have a L70 GF and have a better understanding of its mechanics and limitations. I'm guessing you believe there's a trade-off between GF shield layers and OP temp health, I can probably work with that but the OP overall utility as a threat magnet still needs addressing as the skill you fixed threat on is also the one you made sure Pallys cannot use.
TW having a hard taunt makes sure enemy mobs go for the pally 1st and fixes the number one issue on the class.
When I'm running through CN on my OP I do not have the benefit (to the team) of Knights Valor or Enforced Threat meaning I cannot provide instant protection to the group through either Damage redirection or Aggro focusing.
The above changes would significantly improve the Paladin play style and group utility without increasing damage immunity problems.
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As far as i know temporary hp does not...
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Your comments are unrealistic pesimistic and not true.
First, the HP granted by new BO is shield not temp hp, so is ANOTHER LAYER of HP. You have HP, temp HP and SHIELD. 3 bars of effective HP. Is a different mechanic and you have to know how it works to get the most of it.
Second, you are trying IN LIVE SERVER so absolution is not updated and you are not using new BO so who are you trying to convince with that useless test?
Please be a bit more optimistic, and I repeat, I dont think everything is fine with the changes, but they are not what you are saying and you will still see paladins in runs. Those who adapt.
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At 3.2k and 74% DR I have actively tried tanking Orcus without using BO several times and on some occasions I've done alright for a couple of minutes but it always ended the same way - he gets in a good combination, like 3 crits in a row and death is inevitable.
Cryptic have made it abundantly clear that Pally survivability is not a good thing (even though it's the definition of how they've built the class). They are more interested in keeping their new content 'difficult' than keeping a class relevant. Lets be clear, they see the Paladin as the problem and are prepared to sacrifice the Protection path. That's why they've not said a word since making this thread - they have no intention of balancing it, these changes are for their 'big picture' goal and pally players need to wake up and understand that no matter what we say they are going to effectively shelve the class.
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Xane De Armadeon: CW
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Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
For your information I did tank Orcus in live with no binding oath (it was hard), and still this doesnt matter because my OP is at 4,1k IL atm and is not a good sample, in live or in preview. So even if I did the test in preview wont be valid for you or other players because the 90% of the population is at 2,5k-3,3k.
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If the shield hp from absolution and binding oath accumulative there is still hope for high GS OP .
Sadly to say I agree that 90% of population which consist of 2.5k-3.3k probably wont make it through Orcus door and Fangbreaker Island.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Try the heroic encounter of the giants that throw the massive rocks in bryn shander, that could answer your question. These things 1 shot my gf through the shield, I wonder if 200k+ hp could help to survive that hit.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
The one that has like 2 giants, 1 white dragon and tons of goblins but you may be right, 1 prot op I know got 1 shotted by that enemy even though he's pretty tanky.
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Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Half the powers dont generate divine energy, the other half dont generate AP. The best aura we have kills us in PVP (bug as old as the paladin). Nerf after nerf since the class was introduced and finally reduced to a paper tank in mod 10.5. Did I miss anything ?"
_________________
Nope. Devs wanted to kill the class cause it was irrelevant for mod 10. Why else do we have what you listed?
Devs did say that the Paladin didnt fit with their vision for mod 10 and fbi. You know, invulnerability making content trivial yada yada yada...
Though I agree with that, what they delivered is nothing short of an insult and travesty!
I think that absolution, templar's wrath and binding oath could be a good combo for boss fights but yeah, we console players really are looking forward to checking feedback from pc guys. My main is a gf but have been pugging a lot less recently and run with friends instead, one of them is a prot OP and we have been testing combinations of skills and such, it's really fun as he plays mostly as dps and I'm the team's buff bot, I wonder how these changes are going to affect the survability of paladins and the time it takes us to complete a cn and such. I guess as always, high levelg uys will still perfom excellently and those in the 2k - 2,5k il range (especially if guildless), if pugging, may get crushed by Orcus.
Prot paladin guys, correct me if I am wrong but is isn't your class becoming a very expensive one? Like, pre-bubble nerf very low il and stas ones could tank just about everything just fine but now it will be necessary to spend some serious ad and rp to be very self suficient (aka not depending on healers to survive all but toughest fights like maybe fbi dungeon in mod 10.5?). Or is my guess wrong and it will still be possible to build beast paladins without investing much? What about pvp? Are those binding oath changes affect tankiness in a sigfinicant way? If those changes make the paladin kind of an eady target for dunk rogues and such, shouldn't the damage outpout be increased to compensate that loss in survability?
I still think the savage nerf to SWs is worse though, not buffing their encounter, at will and overal daily damage to compensate for TC nerf (40% - 60% dps loss) so the class can still be very competitive is really bad althought not a surprise, the warlock will once again take an eternity before it gets some changes, if they ever do it that's it, the game may have a much smaller playerbase by then.
The new super grindy mods and bad ideas will kill the game, I can see it already, the devs:
"We are pleased to let you guys know we have patched a glitch whereby players were able to get zen by farming ad and then exchanging it, now you can only buy it in the zen market.
No, we are not laughing very hard as we post this announcement (lol).
Sincerely,
Devs."
As for the game, anything that required Binding Oath I will not run. My dungeon runs go up to CN and stop right there at the door step. I wont be subjecting myself to voluntary frustration. If other pally players test the changes and find them enjoyable - good for you guys.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
game - Human/real life - ???
OP 18k+ Devotion/Justice - Light
I honestly think you are very much mistaken with the paladin been "immune" to damage. Sure our encounter allows us to be immune for 8 seconds but then we take the hit as a big clump I am a ps4 3.3k pally and if i was to sit in some AOEs and stuff and think myself immune I'd be dead... gone... beasted... wrecked and get gud son because i'd be one shot dead after the timer runs out. In FBI if i sit in the rocks thrown by the giants am thrown to the floor and unable to get up for a couple of seconds usually resulting in DEATH maybe not straight away but after the 8 seconds am toast.
My point is that the way the paladin works now is very fluid and effective and im totally A-OKAY with been the tank that comes in when its difficult i like that i joined this game for that challenge to rock up and take the fight when nobody else will and it is risk vs. reward at this very moment and that is why i was the paladin instead of a GF.
I hate to say it but I've put a lot of time effort and money into my pally as it costs a hell of a lot to min/max everything if you continue down this road of wasting resources to completely change powersets then they is no point building a maxed character because you'll just change it every couple of months... totally pointless.
4,300 Tankadin
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
RIP Oathbound Paladin, youre no longer relevant in our plans.
The new Binding Oath returns unmitigated damage equal to 50% of the Paladin HP! Imagine you use BO in the middle of 10 weak monsters, all of them couldn't really damage you if they tried but with BO on upon expiration you will be hit with 50% of your HP in piercing damage. Make the damage return from BO go thru the Paladin DR before it goes to our health bar!
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
As tested on pts, now the damage procs only on the first tick of BL instead of proccing on every tick as it did till now.
With the tanking capabilities severely nerfed, every possible damage increase taken away, the pile of bugs affecting bot PvE and PvP that have never been addressed since the class inception, in regards of this: I don't have the slightest idea of what niche should be filled by an OP in the future but, after yet another nerf to the class, at the moment it coincides with a trash can. The OP is a primary tank class, not an off-tank needing a buddy GF or tanky companion to avoid being melted by Orcus or similar bosses in 3 or 4 hits. We OP players never asked for broken powers that made players forget what a dodge is, we are not responsible for how these powers are coded and we chose and invested in this class because playing an evil-smiter holy fighter could be fun. Sadly now our Divine Judgement is more than a Divine Scolding, Our insanely-high-casting-time Heroism had its duration halved, Our Aura of Courage becomes an Aura of Suicide in PvP once we get marked and we dare to use our class feature, our Binding Oath has become a negligible HP shield, our shield is made of cardboard and doesn't help resisting unmitigable dmg (when it doesn't decide to bug out and don't activate at all), and the list could go on. Ah! obviously Divine Protector, which imho shouldn't have ever existed in the first place and gave the OP a role in parties for all the wrong reasons.
Any time the paladin was touched, it has always been to take something away and never to give. Other classes had balance passes that gave them different but still viable ways to be useful both in PvE and PvP, which has never been an option for the OP players. There is no adapting, only coping with an ever growing misery. I suppose the whole OP community would appreciate seeing some building after all these demolitions, if it means something to the devs.
Can I at least ask you to look at three things:
1. Give a Taunt effect to Templar's Wrath so it has the same aggro effect as Enforced Threat from the GF? (or copy/paste the forced threat from BO to TW). This is fair seeing as BO absolutely cannot be slotted as it will kill the pally every time even in mobs with no RI (piercing dmg feedback).
2. Make Burning Light able to charge whilst moving so it can be unleashed when the Pally goes into a fight rather than standing still for several seconds being useless - I believe this is a decent change as it now cannot multi-proc the owlbear companion and does not provide AP gain.
3. Change the knockback on Relentless Assault to a knockdown. This skill is unusable in groups as it scatters enemies to the wind. The GF has 3 charge skills and all of them are usable in groups.
Neither of these things add to Pally survivability but do increase the class utility by generating more threat.
I now have a L70 GF and have a better understanding of its mechanics and limitations. I'm guessing you believe there's a trade-off between GF shield layers and OP temp health, I can probably work with that but the OP overall utility as a threat magnet still needs addressing as the skill you fixed threat on is also the one you made sure Pallys cannot use.
TW having a hard taunt makes sure enemy mobs go for the pally 1st and fixes the number one issue on the class.
When I'm running through CN on my OP I do not have the benefit (to the team) of Knights Valor or Enforced Threat meaning I cannot provide instant protection to the group through either Damage redirection or Aggro focusing.
The above changes would significantly improve the Paladin play style and group utility without increasing damage immunity problems.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
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