Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Respec into what lol, if i wanted to heal Id play my DC. I wanted a melee front fighter different from GF and GWF both of which I also have. Fact is they will wait to see how the Pally tank does with the changes before they even think about another fix. Feedback means next to nothing at this point.
On the bright side our nerfs are making someone happy. I feel better now
First of all I like the balanced version A LOT more than the version before the last 2 patches. We had a good group setup and we still needed 7:53 (was 5:XX before the balances). The boss seemed to be a lot harder now. Either because of the debuff/buff fixes or the hp increase. All in all it feeled a lot more like a 3.2 ilvl trial. Well done
The 770mio HP that the boss have is well balanced in my opinion. It isn't too low and not too high. I guess an average group with 3.4k ilvl will have a tough fight and a 4k group won't have a too easy fight.
The damage dealt by the boss and its mechanis hit a lot harder now and were finally able to kill someone. I wouldnt increase the damage any futher, just keep it the way it is now. Furthermore the paladin nerfs were a really good choice in my opinion. The team had to coordinate during the fight and couldnt just facetank the mechanics because of the paladin's bubble. We also needed to use the glyph mechanic and couldnt just skip it and burn the boss.
Post edited by emilemo on
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Sanctuary: with the ability to heal unlike a GF, im surprised it doesnt generate threat too. So my suggestion is to make sanctuary a separate layer of DR, keep it at the current 60% and make it generate threat on the paladin while its active.
So much this!
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
0
treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
Completly agree in sanctuary changes in pve, we need a reason to drop shielding strike and still get protection, but i am not sure about pvp.
What about PVP? You think it might be too strong? After all its based on stamina which runs out eventually and unlike guardians the pally wont be able to fight back while blocking. It actually feels quite fair considering the trade offs
Keep in mind in PVP the other tank can approach anyone while blocking everything and fire off a well placed bullcharge from the safety of the shield thus starting his own cc chain of death. A pally can never hope to do anything even remotely in that ballpark. The only and I repeat the only thing a pally brings to pvp is tankiness for himself and the team. Take that away you might as well delete the char.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
So given you are making a power that is currently utter rubbish into a critical power for survivablity and making the current power that fills that role into rubbish, will there be a free respec?
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
0
kacsaneverMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 167Arc User
A quick question about VoE. Is it intended to drop the debuff and put the skill on CD when OPP was hit by a control power?
I went to IWP to the first giants on the left. Activated VoE on one of them. I let the toon get hit by one of giant's control power (knockback) - tried also w/ one not under VoE. VoE dropped from the giant and went on CD.
If it was WAI it should be re-thinked.
0
treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
Yeah you are right nothing i can think off can make 60% less damage a bad idea instead 80% DR.
0
ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
This whole thing is simply a train wreck. Give the GF and OP powers that mitigate % of damage, not useless DR buffs.
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
This whole thing is simply a train wreck. Give the GF and OP powers that mitigate % of damage, not useless DR buffs.
DR buffs are a(nother) victim of the level-70 stat curves. If it is already possible to reach 80% from equipment (etc.), powers that increase damage resistance are not useful for high-geared players. Something that needs big-picture consideration.
It can be useful to provide increased damage resistance for your team (provided they're only in danger from normal damage and it's not a move-or-die/unmitigatable situation), but not so much for the tank player themselves.
Ed: For the record, I'm at 43% DR on a GF that is currently offensively statted. I forget what my DevOP is at, but IIRC it was similar. That's without trying, and without being specced as a tank.
This whole thing is simply a train wreck. Give the GF and OP powers that mitigate % of damage, not useless DR buffs.
DR buffs are a(nother) victim of the level-70 stat curves. If it is already possible to reach 80% from equipment (etc.), powers that increase damage resistance are not useful for high-geared players. Something that needs big-picture consideration.
It can be useful to provide increased damage resistance for your team (provided they're only in danger from normal damage and it's not a move-or-die/unmitigatable situation), but not so much for the tank player themselves.
Ed: For the record, I'm at 43% DR on a GF that is currently offensively statted. I forget what my DevOP is at, but IIRC it was similar. That's without trying, and without being specced as a tank.
Don't forget about mob's Resistance Ignore. Orcus has at least 40%. So increasing DR over 80% - w/ buffs - is not a waste in PvE either. On the other hand I agree w/ that 80% DR from Sanctuary is not usefull. A second layer of damage mitigation like GF block would be way better, but not 80% - it would be overpowered w/ temp HP and shields (blue HP layer). I could imagine it as 30% DR + 10%DR for allies (the default before paragorn path) and 30% damage mitigation as ProtOP - the +10% DR for allies can even be skipped.
Edit: and its activation shall be more relyable/faster.
I will keep testing these "changes", but at this point my OP is probably getting shelved. Although I agree that the invulnerability had to go, the "changes" you gave in return and the way you went about it doesnt cut it. Half of the changes are useless if a Protection Paladin already has 80% DR, which is the vast majority of OPPs.
"krankran wrote:
Not had any feedback re the following bugs which are still all there on the preview server for OP's...
Binding Oath * doesn't generate any Divine Call * doesn't apply your DR when giving you damage when the shield dies
Circle of Power doesn't generate any Divine Call or Action Points
Shield of Faith doesn't give any damage reduction when used with Absolution but works fine with Binding Oath
Divine Protector doesn't give any damage reduction when used with Absolution but works fine with Binding Oath
Bane doesn't generate any Divine Call or Action Points
Sanctuary gives no extra damage reduction when used with Absolution
Having Absolution give an increase to DR rather than be a separate damage reduction shield makes it near useless with high defence or combined with Circle of Power or using Sanctuary etc since it seems to hit an 80% DR cap
All looks pretty broken tbh"
+1 on all this, and we havent heard pips or squeaks from the devs on any fixes.
Circle of Power: does not provide the paragon bonus to the Paladin and allies. - I know @asterdahl said theyre looking into it but an update would be appreciated.
As it stands, when this patch goes live, between the changes and the bugs the class is effectively broken - and not the good kind.
On a final note, if OPs were looked down before for groups, now they will be the lone rangers of NWO.
Respec into what lol, if i wanted to heal Id play my DC. I wanted a melee front fighter different from GF and GWF both of which I also have. Fact is they will wait to see how the Pally tank does with the changes before they even think about another fix. Feedback means next to nothing at this point.
On the bright side our nerfs are making someone happy. I feel better now
First of all I like the balanced version A LOT more than the version before the last 2 patches. We had a good group setup and we still needed 7:53 (was 5:XX before the balances). The boss seemed to be a lot harder now. Either because of the debuff/buff fixes or the hp increase. All in all it feeled a lot more like a 3.2 ilvl trial. Well done
The 770mio HP that the boss have is well balanced in my opinion. It isn't too low and not too high. I guess an average group with 3.4k ilvl will have a tough fight and a 4k group won't have a too easy fight.
The damage dealt by the boss and its mechanis hit a lot harder now and were finally able to kill someone. I wouldnt increase the damage any futher, just keep it the way it is now. Furthermore the paladin nerfs were a really good choice in my opinion. The team had to coordinate during the fight and couldnt just facetank the mechanics because of the paladin's bubble. We also needed to use the glyph mechanic and couldnt just skip it and burn the boss.
I am still very happy about the changes o/ I hope you will have a great start into the expansion on Tuesday and I think you should stop being such mad about the nerfs and start looking for a solid tank build now.
Why would you not be happy if you don't run a paladin?
Personally, I'm starting my new GF tomorrow and he'll be over 3k by the next 2 x RP in a few weeks. I'm going to transfer enchantments from my pally including trans lightning - and no, I won't be spending any real money as I gave up on that long ago when I realised how Cryptic play things.
forgot to mention - as I run my guild's forum and facebook page I'm posting there too - this is from our FB page:
For anyone who has a Prot Pally and doesn't know yet, Cryptic are bringing another "fix" to us...
Binding Oath will no longer provide total damage immunity for it's duration. It will instead provide a shield that absorbs up to your total normal HP then breaks (i.e. 1 to 3 hits from Orcus) but will actually taunt up to 10 enemies within aura range and will return only 50% HP value in damage to enemies.
Other changes: Absolution now provides an amazing 20% of your HP as a shield - so even less useful than BO Vow of Enmity is now a toggle rather than a 60 sec apply - 10 sec cooldown once you turn it off - bear in mind this skill does not buff dps for anyone other than the pally, it simply generates extra threat on the caster so it's trash unless you have real problems with threat gen. Circle of Power now applies it's 25% DR buff to everyone who stands within it - not the power buff though. Sacred Weapon has had a 50% damage increase which takes it from useless to HAMSTER.
That's about it. Personally I'll be starting my new Guardian Fighter tomorrow and as we have a 2 x RP coming up in a few weeks I should have him ready for serious usage shortly after that.
My recommendation is that all Pallies do the same as our one remaining core ability is being removed: survival.
Post edited by armadeonx on
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Yeah my original toon is GF he is currently 3700 il and I will probably be shelving my OPP as well, GF will become my new main. Thankfully enchantments are not bound but I probably shouldn't say that too loudly and give them any bright ideas. Give yourselves a pat on the back Devs cause you did a great job of effectively breaking our class......
while i was initially supporting the changes ,I think thes changes will hurt/harm the average paladin the most. BiS players will find a solution by exploring the possibilities with insignia bonuses and mounts .
Average players will have a hard ,if not impossible time,though.
i propose and imply the devs to postpone any change to Op powers special mentioning the Prot ones. more thought and time is required.
if the changes go live many low geared/med geared paladins will quit the game.
please reconsider and postpone the changes.
BO sure needs an adjustment ,but you have to find another solution,this will make tanking for less geare toons practically impossible.
The only thing you didnt get right was the BO damage. BO will still do 100% of the damage taken to enemies up to your max HP. The 50% is the damage done to the Paladin. I copied @terramak post on the patch notes below:
"terramak said:
Whoops, thanks for the question on the Oathbound Paladin Binding Oath note. I oughtta clarify it, the intent is that Binding Oath deals 50% damage taken to the Paladin as stated in the tooltip (the last Preview build incorrectly had it at 100%).
Patch notes clarified for Oathbound Paladin question. Looks like I misinterpreted something when writing the patch notes, and "return to sender" isn't actually functionality available in the UI, so I'm removing that line from the mail bit."
My tank paladin sits at 3.5K with a greater negation and greater terror. After some tinkering on preview I think I have found a suitable spec, assuming we are given a free respec to fix things.
Feedback: Sacred Weapon: This power is still essentially junk. Some people like the boost to DPS for single strikes it gives, but with the changes to Circle of Power I see it as being a power people in PvP might like (because an extra 10k per strike on at-wills is nice).
Binding Oath: Well you have nerfed this into the useless power category. As that was your goal, its a success. More about your comments on this below.
Absolution: You have, at last, fixed this. So at least with this tanking high damage things (CN etc) is still possible (well it seems so, I need to get into CN on preview to see for certain).
Circle of Power: The changes here are all good (as long as the Ally buff actually works). However I suspect that Bane will remain the better choice in most cases where I might want Circle of Power, 30% less outgoing damage from a boss like Orcus or Drufi and 30% more incoming damage for them without being restricted to standing in a limited area (especially for Drufi) will remain superior. However CoP might well become a very good trash clearing power now, without testing through dungeons its just theory crating. Certainly for solo play its much more useful than it is currently on live, so that gives me some reassurance.
Divine Protector: Just get rid of the power and give us something that does damage and gives us a hard taunt in its place. It would be much better. For example you claim its superior to KV because of the DR boost, and so I can use it to avoid damage to me. Why would I use a daily when using Sanctuary does exactly the same thing and doesn't waste my daily? In all ways this power will be inferior to KV now, so the only people that will gain anything from it is the people that cannot dodge and tank properly through dungeons.
Vow of Enmity: The only thing that matters about Vow is the hard taunt for tanks, other wise this power is terrible for tanks. Making it toggle is not an improvement for tanks, and your justification misses the point of the power apparently anyway, as it is a boss agro generator or heals from killing solo bosses. No one cares that it sits around for a minute or whatever, that's what they want it to do!
Justice Tree: You said the following in talking about Binding Oath:
Lastly, before I move on, I want to address one more reason we wanted to move away from invulnerability for Binding Oath. There had previously been a nerf that made it much more difficult to roll Binding Oath continually, however, that possibility continued to exist, if you could squeeze out just a bit more recovery, or if your procs allowed it. We wanted to remove the goal post of becoming continuously invulnerable. We want Paladin and Guardian Fighter to both be equally strong tanks that feel different, and we know we're not exactly where we want to be yet, but continuous invulnerability is not how we want Paladins to differentiate themselves.
You will keep having this problem, you will keep having it because of the Justice Tree. While the Justice tree remains deformative to the operation of the cooldowns of the class, you will never be able to fix the problems it creates without destroying the functions of the powers that you are deeming to be the problem.
Again as we look at the Changes to Binding Oath and Divine Protector you are pushing through we can see you are treating the symptoms not the disease. Echoes of Light, Flash of Light and Vengeful Judge all significantly reduce cooldowns, with Judge I typically shave 2s off the cooldown of all my encounter powers for example. If you seriously want to fix the "problems" with the OP start by fixing the Justice tree. Until you do this you will never fix the problems you clearly recognise exist with the OP.
Bugs:
Burning Light: No longer grants AP when used, either as a single large tick (current) or a faster gain over time.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Comments
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
Oathbound Paladin
Binding Oath once again properly deals 50% of the damage taken at the end of its lifetime, rather than 100%.
Ha-ha
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
On the bright side our nerfs are making someone happy. I feel better now
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Keep in mind in PVP the other tank can approach anyone while blocking everything and fire off a well placed bullcharge from the safety of the shield thus starting his own cc chain of death. A pally can never hope to do anything even remotely in that ballpark. The only and I repeat the only thing a pally brings to pvp is tankiness for himself and the team. Take that away you might as well delete the char.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Hmm? @asterdahl
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
I went to IWP to the first giants on the left.
Activated VoE on one of them.
I let the toon get hit by one of giant's control power (knockback) - tried also w/ one not under VoE.
VoE dropped from the giant and went on CD.
If it was WAI it should be re-thinked.
It can be useful to provide increased damage resistance for your team (provided they're only in danger from normal damage and it's not a move-or-die/unmitigatable situation), but not so much for the tank player themselves.
Ed: For the record, I'm at 43% DR on a GF that is currently offensively statted. I forget what my DevOP is at, but IIRC it was similar. That's without trying, and without being specced as a tank.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
On the other hand I agree w/ that 80% DR from Sanctuary is not usefull. A second layer of damage mitigation like GF block would be way better, but not 80% - it would be overpowered w/ temp HP and shields (blue HP layer).
I could imagine it as 30% DR + 10%DR for allies (the default before paragorn path) and 30% damage mitigation as ProtOP - the +10% DR for allies can even be skipped.
Edit: and its activation shall be more relyable/faster.
"krankran wrote:
Not had any feedback re the following bugs which are still all there on the preview server for OP's...
Binding Oath
* doesn't generate any Divine Call
* doesn't apply your DR when giving you damage when the shield dies
Circle of Power doesn't generate any Divine Call or Action Points
Shield of Faith doesn't give any damage reduction when used with Absolution but works fine with Binding Oath
Divine Protector doesn't give any damage reduction when used with Absolution but works fine with Binding Oath
Bane doesn't generate any Divine Call or Action Points
Sanctuary gives no extra damage reduction when used with Absolution
Having Absolution give an increase to DR rather than be a separate damage reduction shield makes it near useless with high defence or combined with Circle of Power or using Sanctuary etc since it seems to hit an 80% DR cap
All looks pretty broken tbh"
+1 on all this, and we havent heard pips or squeaks from the devs on any fixes.
Circle of Power: does not provide the paragon bonus to the Paladin and allies. - I know @asterdahl said theyre looking into it but an update would be appreciated.
As it stands, when this patch goes live, between the changes and the bugs the class is effectively broken - and not the good kind.
On a final note, if OPs were looked down before for groups, now they will be the lone rangers of NWO.
Personally, I'm starting my new GF tomorrow and he'll be over 3k by the next 2 x RP in a few weeks. I'm going to transfer enchantments from my pally including trans lightning - and no, I won't be spending any real money as I gave up on that long ago when I realised how Cryptic play things.
forgot to mention - as I run my guild's forum and facebook page I'm posting there too - this is from our FB page:
For anyone who has a Prot Pally and doesn't know yet, Cryptic are bringing another "fix" to us...
Binding Oath will no longer provide total damage immunity for it's duration. It will instead provide a shield that absorbs up to your total normal HP then breaks (i.e. 1 to 3 hits from Orcus) but will actually taunt up to 10 enemies within aura range and will return only 50% HP value in damage to enemies.
Other changes: Absolution now provides an amazing 20% of your HP as a shield - so even less useful than BO
Vow of Enmity is now a toggle rather than a 60 sec apply - 10 sec cooldown once you turn it off - bear in mind this skill does not buff dps for anyone other than the pally, it simply generates extra threat on the caster so it's trash unless you have real problems with threat gen.
Circle of Power now applies it's 25% DR buff to everyone who stands within it - not the power buff though.
Sacred Weapon has had a 50% damage increase which takes it from useless to HAMSTER.
That's about it. Personally I'll be starting my new Guardian Fighter tomorrow and as we have a 2 x RP coming up in a few weeks I should have him ready for serious usage shortly after that.
My recommendation is that all Pallies do the same as our one remaining core ability is being removed: survival.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
Average players will have a hard ,if not impossible time,though.
i propose and imply the devs to postpone any change to Op powers special mentioning the Prot ones.
more thought and time is required.
if the changes go live many low geared/med geared paladins will quit the game.
please reconsider and postpone the changes.
BO sure needs an adjustment ,but you have to find another solution,this will make tanking for less geare toons practically impossible.
The only thing you didnt get right was the BO damage. BO will still do 100% of the damage taken to enemies up to your max HP. The 50% is the damage done to the Paladin. I copied @terramak post on the patch notes below:
"terramak said:
Whoops, thanks for the question on the Oathbound Paladin Binding Oath note. I oughtta clarify it, the intent is that Binding Oath deals 50% damage taken to the Paladin as stated in the tooltip (the last Preview build incorrectly had it at 100%).
Patch notes clarified for Oathbound Paladin question. Looks like I misinterpreted something when writing the patch notes, and "return to sender" isn't actually functionality available in the UI, so I'm removing that line from the mail bit."
Feedback:
Sacred Weapon: This power is still essentially junk. Some people like the boost to DPS for single strikes it gives, but with the changes to Circle of Power I see it as being a power people in PvP might like (because an extra 10k per strike on at-wills is nice).
Binding Oath: Well you have nerfed this into the useless power category. As that was your goal, its a success. More about your comments on this below.
Absolution: You have, at last, fixed this. So at least with this tanking high damage things (CN etc) is still possible (well it seems so, I need to get into CN on preview to see for certain).
Circle of Power: The changes here are all good (as long as the Ally buff actually works). However I suspect that Bane will remain the better choice in most cases where I might want Circle of Power, 30% less outgoing damage from a boss like Orcus or Drufi and 30% more incoming damage for them without being restricted to standing in a limited area (especially for Drufi) will remain superior. However CoP might well become a very good trash clearing power now, without testing through dungeons its just theory crating. Certainly for solo play its much more useful than it is currently on live, so that gives me some reassurance.
Divine Protector: Just get rid of the power and give us something that does damage and gives us a hard taunt in its place. It would be much better. For example you claim its superior to KV because of the DR boost, and so I can use it to avoid damage to me. Why would I use a daily when using Sanctuary does exactly the same thing and doesn't waste my daily? In all ways this power will be inferior to KV now, so the only people that will gain anything from it is the people that cannot dodge and tank properly through dungeons.
Vow of Enmity: The only thing that matters about Vow is the hard taunt for tanks, other wise this power is terrible for tanks. Making it toggle is not an improvement for tanks, and your justification misses the point of the power apparently anyway, as it is a boss agro generator or heals from killing solo bosses. No one cares that it sits around for a minute or whatever, that's what they want it to do!
Justice Tree: You said the following in talking about Binding Oath:
You will keep having this problem, you will keep having it because of the Justice Tree. While the Justice tree remains deformative to the operation of the cooldowns of the class, you will never be able to fix the problems it creates without destroying the functions of the powers that you are deeming to be the problem.
Again as we look at the Changes to Binding Oath and Divine Protector you are pushing through we can see you are treating the symptoms not the disease. Echoes of Light, Flash of Light and Vengeful Judge all significantly reduce cooldowns, with Judge I typically shave 2s off the cooldown of all my encounter powers for example. If you seriously want to fix the "problems" with the OP start by fixing the Justice tree. Until you do this you will never fix the problems you clearly recognise exist with the OP.
Bugs:
Burning Light: No longer grants AP when used, either as a single large tick (current) or a faster gain over time.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Bugs:
Burning Light: No longer grants AP when used, either as a single large tick (current) or a faster gain over time."
HAMSTER, another one? Seriously, did the devs broke AP generation for the OP while making these changes?
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox