People have played HR for YEARS without 2 dodges. A spammable Encounter dodge on top of a shift dodge is OP.
a) The only path that could "spam" it is Trapper. If you use it as Trapper, you're gimping yourself, hurting your team, and basically an all round bad build that sucks. b) A 15s CC breaker isn't overpowered, especially on a class like HR where your dodges SUCK. c) "shift dodge" - obviously you haven't played a HR. The abomination called "dodge" on a HR is a misnomer. Also stamina regeneration is terrible compared to other classes, because stamina stops regenerating for a short period of time after using a dodge, and HRs have more and shorter dodges than other classes hence this wait time is effectively longer. d) HRs have a daily called Slasher's Mark which gives infinite stamina for 10 seconds. No one uses it in PvP because HR dodges suck that much, even with the recent "buff". e) In order to use Marauder's Rush/Escape, you need to give up an encounter slot. In the majority of cases, you're literally gimping yourself by doing this. Trapper breaks their own rotation, wastes about 2 seconds of rotations, Archery isn't charging aimed while doing this, Combat isn't using at-wills while using them. Additionally, HR damage is so low that running a slot without a DPS encounter is tantamount is turning yourself into a rubber ball at best. f) Majority of the time, people don't even CC/damage/target you during Marauder's Rush/Escape, but there are cases where said powers take you out of range of certain encounters but you still get hit anyway. g) Marauder's Rush/Escape durations are barely 1 second, usually less because if you don't dodge out of Marauder's Escape it takes you offnode, and Marauder's Rush's duration is based on how far away you are from the target; most of the time you'd be 50' or less, so you're looking at 0.5s immunity here.
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treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
Can we have some sort of bounce effect on boar charge? Its dps output is low, it has a sloooow animation...add at least some utility to it pls...btw thx for your work @amenar
Also,
Boar Charge has an annoying stun/animation lock at the end of the animation; this should be removed. Basically, after using Boar Charge, the HR seems to be stunned and unable to act, which really reduces how much you get out of the power. If it's an animation issue that can't be readily fixed, slightly increasing the duration of the prone to help might be an option.
I've mention this 2 times already. +++++
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
Can we have some sort of bounce effect on boar charge? Its dps output is low, it has a sloooow animation...add at least some utility to it pls...btw thx for your work @amenar
Also,
Boar Charge has an annoying stun/animation lock at the end of the animation; this should be removed. Basically, after using Boar Charge, the HR seems to be stunned and unable to act, which really reduces how much you get out of the power. If it's an animation issue that can't be readily fixed, slightly increasing the duration of the prone to help might be an option.
Marauder's Eascape seems to do the same on live, not as pronounced as Boar Charge but still there and annoying. I remember Boar Charge has always been like this and has been brought up countless times ove the years and hasn't been addressed. WE heard nothing from @amenar about it so guess it must be an animation issue.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
People have played HR for YEARS without 2 dodges. A spammable Encounter dodge on top of a shift dodge is OP.
a) The only path that could "spam" it is Trapper. If you use it as Trapper, you're gimping yourself, hurting your team, and basically an all round bad build that sucks. b) A 15s CC breaker isn't overpowered, especially on a class like HR where your dodges SUCK. c) "shift dodge" - obviously you haven't played a HR. The abomination called "dodge" on a HR is a misnomer. Also stamina regeneration is terrible compared to other classes, because stamina stops regenerating for a short period of time after using a dodge, and HRs have more and shorter dodges than other classes hence this wait time is effectively longer. d) HRs have a daily called Slasher's Mark which gives infinite stamina for 10 seconds. No one uses it in PvP because HR dodges suck that much, even with the recent "buff". e) In order to use Marauder's Rush/Escape, you need to give up an encounter slot. In the majority of cases, you're literally gimping yourself by doing this. Trapper breaks their own rotation, wastes about 2 seconds of rotations, Archery isn't charging aimed while doing this, Combat isn't using at-wills while using them. Additionally, HR damage is so low that running a slot without a DPS encounter is tantamount is turning yourself into a rubber ball at best. f) Majority of the time, people don't even CC/damage/target you during Marauder's Rush/Escape, but there are cases where said powers take you out of range of certain encounters but you still get hit anyway. g) Marauder's Rush/Escape durations are barely 1 second, usually less because if you don't dodge out of Marauder's Escape it takes you offnode, and Marauder's Rush's duration is based on how far away you are from the target; most of the time you'd be 50' or less, so you're looking at 0.5s immunity here.
+1
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
Marauders is NOT spammable, where are you getting this idea from?!
What you don't realize with your absurd comparisons.
CWs don't need a gap closer, they're a ranged CCer, and they're immune during their dodge anyway.
TRs who mainly go MI have stealth to close in, and can escape easily with the use of ITC and smoke bomb.
The GWF can sprint, can pop unstoppable to negate CC, have CC burst of their own
The GF has it's shield, CC burst. The OP refuses to die anyway.
Archery and Combat lack any of the sort. Combat can't get in with it's @#$% poor base movement speed, and has little defense over others CCing them before they get much of a chance.
Marauder's Rush is not a very fast striking power leaving that opening for a CW or w/e else to CC you when rushing at them with the power. Archery can't even escape with it, they're still easy to CC. Ranged DPS cannot beat ranged CC less it haves something up it's sleeve, in which it doesn't.
Only reason archers worked in the past was because things like Constricting Arrow worked differently back then. It has totally screwed over archery play style.
Spent the morning trying out Combat as a Pathfinder. Overall, I found it very tricky to maximize dps.
Stormwarden was easy - Blade Storm + Throw Caution + CtG spam = everything dies. Pathfinder doesn't have it nearly so easy. The only "AoE" melee attack they have is Split Strike, which makes it tricky to hit multiple enemies with the "dash forward" setup. Seldom do enemies line up in a straight little row - usually they surround you from all angles, which makes CtG much more efficient.
The damage per cast of Split Strike, however, is fantastic; but with the awkward usage and slightly slower cast time, I felt like I got so much more out of CtG.
Also, Ambush's boost to next encounter damage was definitely nice, but I found myself rarely using the melee counterpart - Bear Trap, even with the feat boosts. The radius on it is really only effective to nail one target, AND it required aiming (which takes time, and time = dps loss); so again, the Pathfinder struggles for efficient AoE damage. I ended up using Ambush -> Plant Growth or Steel Breeze more often than not for trash, and for single-target I'd be much more inclined to use Thorn Strike or Gushing Wound.
Careful Attack I'm not convinced is working with Flurry - I can't really tell without using ACT, which I haven't tried yet. I'm sure this has been brought up already in the 40+ pages here, though.
Overall, I'm not seeing a lot of reason to go Pathfinder if Combat; Stormwarden is far more efficient and easier to use. The HR already comes equipped with decent single-target options (Aimed Strike, Gushing, Thorn Strike, Seeker's, etc.), but only Storm seems to really bring some AoE to the table (Blade Storm, CtG, etc.).
Suggestion: - increase radius of Bear Trap to the same size as most other AoEs, centered initially on the HR so if you're already in combat you don't have to aim - you can just drop it. - perhaps rework Split Strike to work like Split Shot - hitting a wide radius in front of the HR. The slightly better damage on this over CtG would be offset by the fact that it's not a 360 degree attack, but you'd at least have a chance at hitting multiple enemies instead of trying to play the dash game with the current setup of the power, *and* it would give Pathfinder an AoE at-will which it's sorely lacking.
@amenar Not sure if this has been addressed, so if it has, please ignore...
I'm quoting a friend here, "The trapper is really the only path that takes into account our fundamental class mechanic: Changing Stances. That would be like if a gf only had one path that acknowledged he can mark stuff, or a gwf only having one path that utilized unstoppable."
Which I never thought of before, but is totally right. By having the Archery and Combat path, you are essentially rendering the RB (Change Stance) useless. The point behind Archery is to stay in Ranged and the point of Combat is to stay in melee. Trapper, the point is to continually change, thus it utilizes this button by granting buffs/etc when swapping stances...This fundamentally changes based on which path you take...
Think of all the ways Trappers use this now: * 4 Paragon Feats (Speed, APG, Deft Strike, AotS buff) for buffing * 3 extra encounters (to avoid cooldowns)
Now tell me, how are you going to make Archery/Combat more supportive of this stance switching? The point of Archery and Combat is to NOT switch stances, right? Should the mechanic then change based on the path you take? A not well thought out idea would be to make the RB be some sort of buff that lasts X seconds and can be triggered every Y seconds. Such as a speed or damage boost.
Can we have some sort of bounce effect on boar charge? Its dps output is low, it has a sloooow animation...add at least some utility to it pls...btw thx for your work @amenar
Also,
Boar Charge has an annoying stun/animation lock at the end of the animation; this should be removed. Basically, after using Boar Charge, the HR seems to be stunned and unable to act, which really reduces how much you get out of the power. If it's an animation issue that can't be readily fixed, slightly increasing the duration of the prone to help might be an option.
@amenar +1 to this... I would love to slot Boar Charge every now and then as it is pretty fun to use. The stunlock though makes it a horrible power.
Main - Rydia (HR70) - Xbox One Player only Alts : Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
i would trade HR dodges for sprint anytime. If i could get a cc break on top i would even pay for it.
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
@rhadamathys : I did point out the same in this thread and also on the Wilds. Two of the trees get no use for stance changes. Lirithiel suggested more power synergy (getting buffs from the powers on the other side and using them with the damage dealers of your tree). At the moment anyway there is very little support in that sense. I suggested killing archer and combat and substituting them with a heavy hitting tree similar to the mod2 hybrid (I still remember getting 25-30 kills in domination matches) and the old nature tree, with feats properly improving the buffs.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
i would trade HR dodges for sprint anytime. If i could get a cc break on top i would even pay for it.
i love the dodge way more then any sprint or block. it allows the hr to be more survivabal.
maybe you should go try the changes in preview after 150 posts in this very thread without having tested nothing. If you are hoping for some special dodge changes the difference is none. FEEDBACK: if its not now, i would still like to express my desire to see our dodges converted to sprint (maybe like the new reworked shadowslip) and stamina regen values finally fixed (45+ seconds to get a full bar). For not american players lag + dodges bad coded are not nice at all. I would trade them anytime and it would fix the fact that a DEX based class is actually the slowest in game. I hardly doubt anyone would have something to say: since 50% of the time you dont dodge the damage, 50% of time you dont dodge the control, 40% of the times you dont dodge both while still being slower than a turtle
STILLNESS OF THE FOREST: the 25' requirements is really too much...
i would trade HR dodges for sprint anytime. If i could get a cc break on top i would even pay for it.
i love the dodge way more then any sprint or block. it allows the hr to be more survivabal.
maybe you should go try the changes in preview after 150 posts in this very thread without having tested nothing. If you are hoping for some special dodge changes the difference is none. FEEDBACK: if its not now, i would still like to express my desire to see our dodges converted to sprint (maybe like the new reworked shadowslip) and stamina regen values finally fixed (45+ seconds to get a full bar). For not american players lag + dodges bad coded are not nice at all. I would trade them anytime and it would fix the fact that a DEX based class is actually the slowest in game.
though i don't lag when i dodge and when i dodge i don't take any damage and yes i should try the preview servers but i lack the spare time. i understand your point and what you are after, was just expressing my point. not as though i should be taken in to account just saying my thoughts on the matter.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
i would trade HR dodges for sprint anytime. If i could get a cc break on top i would even pay for it.
i love the dodge way more then any sprint or block. it allows the hr to be more survivabal.
maybe you should go try the changes in preview after 150 posts in this very thread without having tested nothing. If you are hoping for some special dodge changes the difference is none. FEEDBACK: if its not now, i would still like to express my desire to see our dodges converted to sprint (maybe like the new reworked shadowslip) and stamina regen values finally fixed (45+ seconds to get a full bar). For not american players lag + dodges bad coded are not nice at all. I would trade them anytime and it would fix the fact that a DEX based class is actually the slowest in game. I hardly doubt anyone would have something to say: since 50% of the time you dont dodge the damage, 50% of time you dont dodge the control, 40% of the times you dont dodge both while still being slower than a turtle
HR does use a special ninja sprint run animation on occasion. Not sure how it's triggered though.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
i'll say this now that my hr trapper in live servers can solo any he in well of dragons. the hardest he for me to solo is cult patrol, but i have soloed it.
Those are tier 1 HEs. Most classes, played well and with sufficient DPS output, should be able to solo at least some tier 1 HEs. And a dedicated support build may still need help with them, even when geared.
Tier 2 HEs in WoD are things like Enemies and Allies, or Raising Hell. Being able to solo these requires significant DPS to beat the clock.
WoD doesn't have any tier 3 HEs but the Heralds. In IWD, these are encounters like the Black Ice Beholder. Solo requires both incredible DPS and survivability.
HEs in WoD are easy, it's the time constraint that is hard. My HR can get the Red Dragon down to around 20% left when the timer goes off...without dying...the HE by the black dragon you have to have a group since the golem is invincible and you need to gather all that stuff... If they extended the timers in WoD, it'd be doable...
i'll say this now that my hr trapper in live servers can solo any he in well of dragons. the hardest he for me to solo is cult patrol, but i have soloed it.
Those are tier 1 HEs. Most classes, played well and with sufficient DPS output, should be able to solo at least some tier 1 HEs. And a dedicated support build may still need help with them, even when geared.
Tier 2 HEs in WoD are things like Enemies and Allies, or Raising Hell. Being able to solo these requires significant DPS to beat the clock.
WoD doesn't have any tier 3 HEs but the Heralds. In IWD, these are encounters like the Black Ice Beholder. Solo requires both incredible DPS and survivability.
i have done enemies and allies and i found that easier then patrol as for raising hell it wasn't that hard either but i will say harder then patrol since their are more casters and ranged enemies their.
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thatsmeaswellMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 60Arc User
edited August 2016
I have no issues completing tier 2 in wod, the cult patrols however force me to slot fox shift in order to solo them. So for me at least they are the hardest he in wod. And this may have to do with the subpar dodge hr has.
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
edited August 2016
@genjundead : try predicting stalactites at Lostmauth...Then post a video
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
@genjundead : try predicting stalactites at Lostmauth...
i just stay mobile in elol when i tank that dungeon with a healer and 3 other dps though i will say you cant predict random easily so mobility is key for those and the dodge frame is long enough to get out of red and if still in red you still take no damage.
gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
Coming back to HR dodges and high ping... I watched today @thefabricant Fangbreaker Isle video (many thanks for posting it!). I dodge much faster than he does on that video (I'm used to high ping so I know that I see everything delayed). With the HR I get countless rubberbandings into red zones on live (that's why I still run with Lathander's set), while with the SW things are much better (meaning I can avoid a larger number of hits, not that everything is perfect). With lower ping around 150-200ms (when back in Europe) things look better but I still feel there is a mismatch between the immunity frame and the animation. With high ping there definitely is a mismatch and dodge spamming is the only way to have a chance to avoid stuff (you just dodge spam and hope for the best since you can't predict when the immunity frame will come up). With the SW the shifting effect is continuous so you don't have to hope for the best, you just have to be fast enough. As a side note: when ping goes up you start to see how the server is feeding your client. Damage and status effects are clearly sent before triggers for animations. Giants hit you for damage and push you back before their animations even start (and sometimes animation don't even play). Sometimes you get messages like "you can't do that while prone" meaning that you have been proned by something and this has been fed to your client but the red zone/animation still has to appear/start. This is far worse than getting a delayed but correct sequence (animation-damage-cc) as you cannot even counter it by fast reflexes. If the server knows already that I have been hit it obviously knew before that an animation was started so why does it feed my client the damage and cc before the animation? And don't tell me it's my pc. I play on a laptop and bring it with me across time zones so it's always the same one.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
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patcherrkmMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 127Arc User
mauraders is fine the way it is. its basically two gap closers in one. rush towards them and if all else fails flip a 180 and escape towards them. learn to play. the fact that escape actually does damage now is awesome. every time i see the damage floaters i say thank you in my head to the developer who did that.
if anything is done or changed with mauraders, i think when you use escape it should leave a snare field for 3-5 seconds in that spot you escaped from. This would greatly help out archers. make it like the rogues courage breaker while you are at it.
mauraders is fine the way it is. its basically two gap closers in one. rush towards them and if all else fails flip a 180 and escape towards them. learn to play. the fact that escape actually does damage now is awesome. every time i see the damage floaters i say thank you in my head to the developer who did that.
if anything is done or changed with mauraders, i think when you use escape it should leave a snare field for 3-5 seconds in that spot you escaped from. This would greatly help out archers. make it like the rogues courage breaker while you are at it.
i would trade HR dodges for sprint anytime. If i could get a cc break on top i would even pay for it.
i love the dodge way more then any sprint or block. it allows the hr to be more survivabal.
maybe you should go try the changes in preview after 150 posts in this very thread without having tested nothing. If you are hoping for some special dodge changes the difference is none. FEEDBACK: if its not now, i would still like to express my desire to see our dodges converted to sprint (maybe like the new reworked shadowslip) and stamina regen values finally fixed (45+ seconds to get a full bar). For not american players lag + dodges bad coded are not nice at all. I would trade them anytime and it would fix the fact that a DEX based class is actually the slowest in game. I hardly doubt anyone would have something to say: since 50% of the time you dont dodge the damage, 50% of time you dont dodge the control, 40% of the times you dont dodge both while still being slower than a turtle
HR does use a special ninja sprint run animation on occasion. Not sure how it's triggered though.
I thought I was going totally made and was the only one imagining this. I have no idea how its triggered either but it happens on the X1 too and has some weird sounds that go with it.
Main - Rydia (HR70) - Xbox One Player only Alts : Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
I wanted to better compare Combat's At-Wills w/ simple single-target dps tests. In light of Combat's dps being even more heavily based on its at-wills (Flurry, Pericing Blade, Blade Storm, etc) than possibly Thorned Roots is for Trappers, it seems pertinent to highlight how each melee at-will performs. They're properties are very important for Combat now, so I want to make sure the devs have its best interests in mind.
All tests were done on one lvl 60 dummy (no splash dmg or extra targets), ~3-4 min tests, rank 4 in each attack, didn't change gear/stats between tests, and feated for HT/CA so I didn't favor any of the tested At-wills.
Rapid Strike spam:
Clear the Ground spam @ shortest distance:
Clear the Ground Spam @ max distance:
Aimed Strike spam:
Split Strike spam:
1x Aimed Strike, ~4x Rapid Strike cycle rotation:
The raw numbers aren't as important as the relative comparisons here, so..
DPS of each at-will per target *relative to Rapid Strike spam*
It seems a bit odd that Rapid Strike is only about 6-10% higher dps than max CtG or Split Strike in the same setup. I wouldn't expect AoE At-wills to be that close to the main single-target one in per-target dps, and I think Rapid Strike could still use a slight bump. Atm, if a Stormwarden Combat HR wanted to be lazy, they could just use a CTG + Aimed Strike (for its DoT on single targets) combination everywhere, not bother w/ any other at-wills, and not lose out on much.
Although Split Strike's per-target dps is pretty good (and apparently better than CtG's per-target dps), its AoE reach remains really poor. This greatly limits how well Pathfinders will perform in AoE situations as Combat, and esp given that Bear Trap is a bit underwhelming atm (and Bear Trap is competing w/ other encounters for that slot). I'm fine w/ Stormwarden having the better large-scale AoE option, but for the sake of both paths I'd suggest improving Split Strike's AoE reach in some considerable way.
Aimed Strike spam doesn't do well by itself (though it arguably shouldn't), but it does net a pretty nice boost when put on top of Rapid Strike for an optimal single-target dps rotation. This strikes me as a bit more balanced as slotting both means having no AoE at-will, which greatly changes Combat's performance rel to the other trees (which, again, is perhaps why the AoE at-wills' per-target dps shouldn't be too close to Rapid Strike's). Aimed Strike's DoT could stand to be buffed a touch more as well, imo.
(edit to fix the aimed strike + rapid strike calcs)
I play on Xbox so I cannot add any suggestions that are supported by facts but I will add my observations
1) Why is this thread 45 pages when SW GF are 1/4 the size ? 2) How many respec tokens do I need when these changes go live over/under 20 3) Class Balance means what? PVE PVP or the paths with the class ?
I am losing hope that the flexibility I have with my HR in PVE now will be lost after these changes
i would trade HR dodges for sprint anytime. If i could get a cc break on top i would even pay for it.
i love the dodge way more then any sprint or block. it allows the hr to be more survivabal.
maybe you should go try the changes in preview after 150 posts in this very thread without having tested nothing. If you are hoping for some special dodge changes the difference is none. FEEDBACK: if its not now, i would still like to express my desire to see our dodges converted to sprint (maybe like the new reworked shadowslip) and stamina regen values finally fixed (45+ seconds to get a full bar). For not american players lag + dodges bad coded are not nice at all. I would trade them anytime and it would fix the fact that a DEX based class is actually the slowest in game. I hardly doubt anyone would have something to say: since 50% of the time you dont dodge the damage, 50% of time you dont dodge the control, 40% of the times you dont dodge both while still being slower than a turtle
HR does use a special ninja sprint run animation on occasion. Not sure how it's triggered though.
That is a Daily Slashers Mark which uses 75-100% AP and the best way for this turtle to cover any ground quickly ex Edemo
Rayrdan is right HR is the slowest class bar none you can dodge all of 4 feet what 5-6 times before you run out of stamina
Comments
b) A 15s CC breaker isn't overpowered, especially on a class like HR where your dodges SUCK.
c) "shift dodge" - obviously you haven't played a HR. The abomination called "dodge" on a HR is a misnomer. Also stamina regeneration is terrible compared to other classes, because stamina stops regenerating for a short period of time after using a dodge, and HRs have more and shorter dodges than other classes hence this wait time is effectively longer.
d) HRs have a daily called Slasher's Mark which gives infinite stamina for 10 seconds. No one uses it in PvP because HR dodges suck that much, even with the recent "buff".
e) In order to use Marauder's Rush/Escape, you need to give up an encounter slot. In the majority of cases, you're literally gimping yourself by doing this. Trapper breaks their own rotation, wastes about 2 seconds of rotations, Archery isn't charging aimed while doing this, Combat isn't using at-wills while using them. Additionally, HR damage is so low that running a slot without a DPS encounter is tantamount is turning yourself into a rubber ball at best.
f) Majority of the time, people don't even CC/damage/target you during Marauder's Rush/Escape, but there are cases where said powers take you out of range of certain encounters but you still get hit anyway.
g) Marauder's Rush/Escape durations are barely 1 second, usually less because if you don't dodge out of Marauder's Escape it takes you offnode, and Marauder's Rush's duration is based on how far away you are from the target; most of the time you'd be 50' or less, so you're looking at 0.5s immunity here.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
What you don't realize with your absurd comparisons.
CWs don't need a gap closer, they're a ranged CCer, and they're immune during their dodge anyway.
TRs who mainly go MI have stealth to close in, and can escape easily with the use of ITC and smoke bomb.
The GWF can sprint, can pop unstoppable to negate CC, have CC burst of their own
The GF has it's shield, CC burst. The OP refuses to die anyway.
Archery and Combat lack any of the sort. Combat can't get in with it's @#$% poor base movement speed, and has little defense over others CCing them before they get much of a chance.
Marauder's Rush is not a very fast striking power leaving that opening for a CW or w/e else to CC you when rushing at them with the power. Archery can't even escape with it, they're still easy to CC. Ranged DPS cannot beat ranged CC less it haves something up it's sleeve, in which it doesn't.
Only reason archers worked in the past was because things like Constricting Arrow worked differently back then. It has totally screwed over archery play style.
Stormwarden was easy - Blade Storm + Throw Caution + CtG spam = everything dies.
Pathfinder doesn't have it nearly so easy. The only "AoE" melee attack they have is Split Strike, which makes it tricky to hit multiple enemies with the "dash forward" setup. Seldom do enemies line up in a straight little row - usually they surround you from all angles, which makes CtG much more efficient.
The damage per cast of Split Strike, however, is fantastic; but with the awkward usage and slightly slower cast time, I felt like I got so much more out of CtG.
Also, Ambush's boost to next encounter damage was definitely nice, but I found myself rarely using the melee counterpart - Bear Trap, even with the feat boosts. The radius on it is really only effective to nail one target, AND it required aiming (which takes time, and time = dps loss); so again, the Pathfinder struggles for efficient AoE damage. I ended up using Ambush -> Plant Growth or Steel Breeze more often than not for trash, and for single-target I'd be much more inclined to use Thorn Strike or Gushing Wound.
Careful Attack I'm not convinced is working with Flurry - I can't really tell without using ACT, which I haven't tried yet. I'm sure this has been brought up already in the 40+ pages here, though.
Overall, I'm not seeing a lot of reason to go Pathfinder if Combat; Stormwarden is far more efficient and easier to use.
The HR already comes equipped with decent single-target options (Aimed Strike, Gushing, Thorn Strike, Seeker's, etc.), but only Storm seems to really bring some AoE to the table (Blade Storm, CtG, etc.).
Suggestion:
- increase radius of Bear Trap to the same size as most other AoEs, centered initially on the HR so if you're already in combat you don't have to aim - you can just drop it.
- perhaps rework Split Strike to work like Split Shot - hitting a wide radius in front of the HR. The slightly better damage on this over CtG would be offset by the fact that it's not a 360 degree attack, but you'd at least have a chance at hitting multiple enemies instead of trying to play the dash game with the current setup of the power, *and* it would give Pathfinder an AoE at-will which it's sorely lacking.
I'm quoting a friend here, "The trapper is really the only path that takes into account our fundamental class mechanic: Changing Stances. That would be like if a gf only had one path that acknowledged he can mark stuff, or a gwf only having one path that utilized unstoppable."
Which I never thought of before, but is totally right. By having the Archery and Combat path, you are essentially rendering the RB (Change Stance) useless. The point behind Archery is to stay in Ranged and the point of Combat is to stay in melee. Trapper, the point is to continually change, thus it utilizes this button by granting buffs/etc when swapping stances...This fundamentally changes based on which path you take...
Think of all the ways Trappers use this now:
* 4 Paragon Feats (Speed, APG, Deft Strike, AotS buff) for buffing
* 3 extra encounters (to avoid cooldowns)
Now tell me, how are you going to make Archery/Combat more supportive of this stance switching? The point of Archery and Combat is to NOT switch stances, right? Should the mechanic then change based on the path you take? A not well thought out idea would be to make the RB be some sort of buff that lasts X seconds and can be triggered every Y seconds. Such as a speed or damage boost.
The Legendary Outlaws
Preferences:
PvE and PvP - Pathfinder Combat
Alts :
Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
Member of Q-Snipe
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
FEEDBACK: if its not now, i would still like to express my desire to see our dodges converted to sprint (maybe like the new reworked shadowslip) and stamina regen values finally fixed (45+ seconds to get a full bar). For not american players lag + dodges bad coded are not nice at all. I would trade them anytime and it would fix the fact that a DEX based class is actually the slowest in game. I hardly doubt anyone would have something to say: since 50% of the time you dont dodge the damage, 50% of time you dont dodge the control, 40% of the times you dont dodge both while still being slower than a turtle
STILLNESS OF THE FOREST: the 25' requirements is really too much...
i understand your point and what you are after, was just expressing my point. not as though i should be taken in to account just saying my thoughts on the matter.
Tier 2 HEs in WoD are things like Enemies and Allies, or Raising Hell. Being able to solo these requires significant DPS to beat the clock.
WoD doesn't have any tier 3 HEs but the Heralds. In IWD, these are encounters like the Black Ice Beholder. Solo requires both incredible DPS and survivability.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
The Legendary Outlaws
Preferences:
PvE and PvP - Pathfinder Combat
And this may have to do with the subpar dodge hr has.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
oh right!
BUG: FOX CUNNING: tooltip states it gives a free dodge but control isnt dodged
As a side note: when ping goes up you start to see how the server is feeding your client. Damage and status effects are clearly sent before triggers for animations. Giants hit you for damage and push you back before their animations even start (and sometimes animation don't even play). Sometimes you get messages like "you can't do that while prone" meaning that you have been proned by something and this has been fed to your client but the red zone/animation still has to appear/start. This is far worse than getting a delayed but correct sequence (animation-damage-cc) as you cannot even counter it by fast reflexes. If the server knows already that I have been hit it obviously knew before that an animation was started so why does it feed my client the damage and cc before the animation?
And don't tell me it's my pc. I play on a laptop and bring it with me across time zones so it's always the same one.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
if anything is done or changed with mauraders, i think when you use escape it should leave a snare field for 3-5 seconds in that spot you escaped from. This would greatly help out archers. make it like the rogues courage breaker while you are at it.
Alts :
Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
Member of Q-Snipe
I wanted to better compare Combat's At-Wills w/ simple single-target dps tests. In light of Combat's dps being even more heavily based on its at-wills (Flurry, Pericing Blade, Blade Storm, etc) than possibly Thorned Roots is for Trappers, it seems pertinent to highlight how each melee at-will performs. They're properties are very important for Combat now, so I want to make sure the devs have its best interests in mind.
All tests were done on one lvl 60 dummy (no splash dmg or extra targets), ~3-4 min tests, rank 4 in each attack, didn't change gear/stats between tests, and feated for HT/CA so I didn't favor any of the tested At-wills.
Rapid Strike spam:
Clear the Ground spam @ shortest distance:
Clear the Ground Spam @ max distance:
Aimed Strike spam:
Split Strike spam:
1x Aimed Strike, ~4x Rapid Strike cycle rotation:
The raw numbers aren't as important as the relative comparisons here, so..
DPS of each at-will per target *relative to Rapid Strike spam*
Rapid Strike: 6491 dps, 100%
CtG (near): 5904 dps, ~91%
CtG (far): 4457 dps, ~70%
Aimed Strike: 3897 dps, ~60%
Split Strike: 6078 dps, ~94%
Rapid Strike + Aimed Strike DoT: 8172 dps, ~126%
It seems a bit odd that Rapid Strike is only about 6-10% higher dps than max CtG or Split Strike in the same setup. I wouldn't expect AoE At-wills to be that close to the main single-target one in per-target dps, and I think Rapid Strike could still use a slight bump. Atm, if a Stormwarden Combat HR wanted to be lazy, they could just use a CTG + Aimed Strike (for its DoT on single targets) combination everywhere, not bother w/ any other at-wills, and not lose out on much.
Although Split Strike's per-target dps is pretty good (and apparently better than CtG's per-target dps), its AoE reach remains really poor. This greatly limits how well Pathfinders will perform in AoE situations as Combat, and esp given that Bear Trap is a bit underwhelming atm (and Bear Trap is competing w/ other encounters for that slot). I'm fine w/ Stormwarden having the better large-scale AoE option, but for the sake of both paths I'd suggest improving Split Strike's AoE reach in some considerable way.
Aimed Strike spam doesn't do well by itself (though it arguably shouldn't), but it does net a pretty nice boost when put on top of Rapid Strike for an optimal single-target dps rotation. This strikes me as a bit more balanced as slotting both means having no AoE at-will, which greatly changes Combat's performance rel to the other trees (which, again, is perhaps why the AoE at-wills' per-target dps shouldn't be too close to Rapid Strike's). Aimed Strike's DoT could stand to be buffed a touch more as well, imo.
(edit to fix the aimed strike + rapid strike calcs)
<CO docs> .: Petco :. // Base DPS Sheet (needs revision) // PSA on Power Activation Delay
- Themed Tanks // Misc Build Dump // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (stat data)
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
1) Why is this thread 45 pages when SW GF are 1/4 the size ?
2) How many respec tokens do I need when these changes go live over/under 20
3) Class Balance means what? PVE PVP or the paths with the class ?
I am losing hope that the flexibility I have with my HR in PVE now will be lost after these changes That is a Daily Slashers Mark which uses 75-100% AP and the best way for this turtle to cover any ground quickly ex Edemo
Rayrdan is right HR is the slowest class bar none you can dodge all of 4 feet what 5-6 times before you run out of stamina