@amenar lets at least fix the bug on wild medicine... first: it does not heal the right amount of HP (doesnt scale with total HP) and is then two times affected by depression (healing depression and halved again in pvp maps where healing depression is already active) with the change to battle crazed the one second cooldown for stack smells bad too
I just fixed the double healing depression. Not gonna remove the 1s ICD at this point, these kinds of ICDs generally exist to prevent bad loops. What do you mean by "doesn't scale with total HP" ? Looking at how it is setup and some quick testing, it appears to be scaling as I would expect - and, it appears to be healing for twice what it states - I get healed for 10% of my HP over 15s at max rank, not 5%. What situation are you seeing where it doesn't appear to be scaling?
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
@amenar lets at least fix the bug on wild medicine... first: it does not heal the right amount of HP (doesnt scale with total HP) and is then two times affected by depression (healing depression and halved again in pvp maps where healing depression is already active) with the change to battle crazed the one second cooldown for stack smells bad too
I just fixed the double healing depression. Not gonna remove the 1s ICD at this point, these kinds of ICDs generally exist to prevent bad loops. What do you mean by "doesn't scale with total HP" ? Looking at how it is setup and some quick testing, it appears to be scaling as I would expect - and, it appears to be healing for twice what it states - I get healed for 10% of my HP over 15s at max rank, not 5%. What situation are you seeing where it doesn't appear to be scaling?
Isn't it the same as the Constitution stat, where it's based off base HP and not total HP?
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@amenar lets at least fix the bug on wild medicine... first: it does not heal the right amount of HP (doesnt scale with total HP) and is then two times affected by depression (healing depression and halved again in pvp maps where healing depression is already active) with the change to battle crazed the one second cooldown for stack smells bad too
I just fixed the double healing depression. Not gonna remove the 1s ICD at this point, these kinds of ICDs generally exist to prevent bad loops. What do you mean by "doesn't scale with total HP" ? Looking at how it is setup and some quick testing, it appears to be scaling as I would expect - and, it appears to be healing for twice what it states - I get healed for 10% of my HP over 15s at max rank, not 5%. What situation are you seeing where it doesn't appear to be scaling?
sort of off topic, but totally related to healing depression. All the insignia bonuses that heal are not effected by healing depression as far as i know. Could be these changed to respect healing depression? they are one of the many causes why people never die in pvp except to huge one shot abilities from GF/TR. making these items respect healing depression like every other source of healing in pvp would not solve the problem, but it is a necessary bug fix so we can properly see what future changes are required
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@amenar lets at least fix the bug on wild medicine... first: it does not heal the right amount of HP (doesnt scale with total HP) and is then two times affected by depression (healing depression and halved again in pvp maps where healing depression is already active) with the change to battle crazed the one second cooldown for stack smells bad too
I just fixed the double healing depression. Not gonna remove the 1s ICD at this point, these kinds of ICDs generally exist to prevent bad loops. What do you mean by "doesn't scale with total HP" ? Looking at how it is setup and some quick testing, it appears to be scaling as I would expect - and, it appears to be healing for twice what it states - I get healed for 10% of my HP over 15s at max rank, not 5%. What situation are you seeing where it doesn't appear to be scaling?
@amenar this is one of the things kinda hard to test even with act since its difficult to keep a fixed amount of stacks. By the way i just tested it again: 112k HP 1654hp each 3 seconds for 5 seconds hence 8270 HP(you have right its healing about 2% more than stated). About the cd: it does not allow to reach max stacks if not pulling half sharandar.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
Aye, all my HRs use R4 PG/CoA these days. Going w/o it on the Combat and Archer HR is like pulling teeth. Would like to be weened off it, but at this stage its far too late to re-balance all other HR powers to be near that par, and I'd rather take a lopsided/rigid path to being competitive than have no route to it at all.
@amenar Which is why melee at-wills need adjusted so badly. Trapper can spam plant growth along with other powers, on top of Thorned root's damage, and the AP gain. Archery has more variety of DPS sources than Combat as well.
You gave Aimed Shot some needed attention. Archery can tear down single target much better now. Even Trapper can make use of Aimed Shot Along with all the AoE DPS Trapper and Archery can expel. Archery can make use of Plant Growth as well.
Combat has no unique viable source of damage for itself. It's completely reliant on powers the other tree are able to use already for the majority of it's DPS. The at-wills didn't scale up for level 70. Maybe CtG with it's 50% buff might do a little better, but Rapid Strike still needs a large buff to it. 1300 tooltip DPS doesn't cut it for modern content. When other melee classes including the GF have way higher at-will damage. I can burn an encounter for a flurry Rapid Strike crit, and Crushing Surge still deals double the amount of damage with a non-crit. Don't you understand? You can slap in a GF tank, and a GF built to only DPS, and it will fulfill that DPS role much better than Combat could even dream of. Even an OP tank built to deal DPS can take the DPS role and still out perform. Pure support like an Oppressor MoF CW have better DPS output even.
You gave Aimed Shot attention, Archery will be able to perform it's job. 60-120k crits every second with increased crit chance!! Combat is primarily just plain old melee DPS. It can't support a party. If it's lucky enough to land it's crits, they can't even achieve 20k on top of losing crit chance vs Archery gaining crit chance. This is simply unacceptable for a DPS role who has no DPS sources outside of what few encounters it can actually make use of that are on CDs.
Combat had unviable DPS from the beginning of mod 6. That's the reason why it isn't used. That's why it needs buffs that relate to what it's tree and capstone do. Having to burn an encounter just to buff your own at-wills, and they still can't compete with at-wills of other classes. It needs large buffs because it didn't do anything from the beginning.
I'd rather deal damage on top of having the other things fixed. So at least I wouldn't be a burden for the party. Better to do damage than stall for time while not contributing.
sort of off topic, but totally related to healing depression. All the insignia bonuses that heal are not effected by healing depression as far as i know.
Fixed the bug.
Still looking into a few of the others things that have been discussed.
sort of off topic, but totally related to healing depression. All the insignia bonuses that heal are not effected by healing depression as far as i know.
Fixed the bug.
Still looking into a few of the others things that have been discussed.
Thank you so so much. So very much.
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feanor70118Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,170Arc User
Again, not without great thanks for @amenar's work, but in case a list of such things is useful later:
So far what I see is this:
Things we got that we actually wanted: 1) Bigger dodge, probably still not big enough, probably still with bugged immunity frames 2) a little bit more damage from encounters, improvements to Hawk and Commanding Shot 3) Faster Aimed Shot, no longer interrupted by taking damage 4) Bigger AoE from Rain of Arrows 5) Slightly better control in pvp, from control durations no longer being subject to deflect 6) Longer DoT in pvp (where it remains mostly irrelevant) from thorned roots/control resistance change. Could actually result in more healing to opponents from deflect/heal insignia bonus. 7) Slight cooldown reductions to some encounters 8) Gushing Wound no longer goes on cooldown on a miss 9) Slight improvements to Combat feat tree
Things we obviously needed, have been saying so for two years, and did not get:
1) significant buffs to base damage of most powers 2) Massive buffs to at-wills to make them relevant again 3) a control break/escape 4) reduction to or elimination of animation to Forest Ghost 5) increase to deflect severity 6) Faster animations to those encounters that are useful in pvp (buffing Gushing Wound without shortening animation was an obvious fail here) 7) Significant cooldown reductions to charge refill times on Cordon and Hindering Shot 8) A source of real burst damage in pvp 9) Undo to the nerf of animation of Boar Charge to make it useful again 10) Improvements to Combat capstone 11) Reduction or elimination of feat/capstone nerfs that are specific to pvp 12) Significant healing from Oak Skin to match mod 6+ HP creep
Things we got that we didn't want at all:
1) Buffs to ambush/bear trap, which no one uses 2) Target cap nerfs to AoE powers, nerfing our dps, control and therefore survivabilty 3) More damage from Forest Ghost, which completely misses the point of the ability 4) Damage from Marauder's Escape, which completely misses the point of the ability 5) Meaningless buffs to at-wills and Oak Skin
Things we narrowly avoided, which were incredibly bad ideas:
1) Charges on Steel Breeze 2) Nerf to range of Marauder's Rush
Still on the agenda:
1) Everything in second section 2) Nerf Thorned Roots damage and compensate by increasing base damage across the board so it affects all trees, for no net loss of damage to Trapper 3) Evaluate control changes over time in pvp to see whether our roots/dazes remain essentially meaningless to BiS opponents
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treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
@amenar can you make anything about aimed strike and goushing wound often failing when target is moving pls. Not related to that why not increase clear the ground range and damage? combat really could really use at will boost not having to depend always on flurry and stormwarden should distinguish from pathfinder with more damage than it is now, specially after blade storm correction.
sort of off topic, but totally related to healing depression. All the insignia bonuses that heal are not effected by healing depression as far as i know.
Fixed the bug.
Still looking into a few of the others things that have been discussed.
@amenar can you make anything about aimed strike and goushing wound often failing when target is moving pls. Not related to that why not increase clear the ground range and damage? combat really could really use at will boost not having to depend always on flurry and stormwarden should distinguish from pathfinder with more damage than it is now, specially after blade storm correction.
CtG range is already amazing.
Not sure how 1800 tooltip DPS will fair. Though CWs do 1800 with their chilling cloud as well unbuffed, but they can pile on that crit and secondary DPS sources and damage buffs like there's no tomorrow. I feel that will not come close to competing with AoE output of other classes can do.
The sad part, is that the CW doesn't even need it's at-wills to mow down mobs, yet can still put combat to shame with them.
Rapid Strike is still stuck in purgatory and aimed strike was left alone.
Low tooltip base DPS = less scaling with party buffs = doing even less DPS than other classes.
@amenar "Piercing blade" should do additional piercing damage from the base (initial) damage of at-wills, encounterns or dailies. It will boost combat hunter's damage a lot. Besides, piercing damage is the only way to kill TRs, DC or GFs in pvp/
sort of off topic, but totally related to healing depression. All the insignia bonuses that heal are not effected by healing depression as far as i know.
Fixed the bug.
Still looking into a few of the others things that have been discussed.
@amenar Wait what? Did you actually fix so there is healing depression on all insignia healing in PvP? Or what bug are you talking about? :S
We have talked about redistribute some of thorned root damage to other damage sources. I get an idea which may not be the perfect solutuon but i write it here anyway.
Grasping roots is a class mechanism. We could enhance this mechanism a bit. There are two options: 1. Applying a debuff only for HR; 2. Let grasping roots already do certain amount damage.
Then we make thorned root feat only increase the damge by an amount which is smaller than now. My 2 cent.
sort of off topic, but totally related to healing depression. All the insignia bonuses that heal are not effected by healing depression as far as i know.
Fixed the bug.
Still looking into a few of the others things that have been discussed.
wnat are you talkin albout??? this didnt even need a fix or anythin ? they werent affected bv HD or inc healing ... they were fine...
hope you are not takin the easy side right not tellin me fixing this is not needed into fixing DC ,TR and GWF ? because you are doin the same mistake as the other DEVS done in the past... so speak with the producers about this.. the insignias are fine. the CLASSES aren't fine.
You have made more than a few posts talking about how there is so much internal healing, from lifesteal, from drowned weapons, from insignias, from boons, and such, that no one dies in high end pvp. You have mentioned in many places that you want endless consumption turned way down/changed. Well this is step one. Bringing insignias in line with every other source of healing means from here on they can be balanced later with the devs having a clear view of what is causing too much healing and in what usage rates.
Now, i did not know that insignias did not respect incoming healing, so that needs to be fixed as well if you can @amenar when things work properly then balancing will be a lot easier later on when it happens
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What we need 1st and for most is to test what we have now had done. then with feed back we maybe able to get some more things accomplished. At this time changing anything else we will just be guessing. Unless maybee change to combat capstone which are needed most
sort of off topic, but totally related to healing depression. All the insignia bonuses that heal are not effected by healing depression as far as i know.
Fixed the bug.
Still looking into a few of the others things that have been discussed.
@amenar Wait what? Did you actually fix so there is healing depression on all insignia healing in PvP? Or what bug are you talking about? :S
The patch note reads:
Insignia Bonuses: Are now properly affected by healing debuffs, such as Healing Depression in PvP.
sort of off topic, but totally related to healing depression. All the insignia bonuses that heal are not effected by healing depression as far as i know.
Fixed the bug.
Still looking into a few of the others things that have been discussed.
@amenar Wait what? Did you actually fix so there is healing depression on all insignia healing in PvP? Or what bug are you talking about? :S
The patch note reads:
Insignia Bonuses: Are now properly affected by healing debuffs, such as Healing Depression in PvP.
Alright. This will uncover ALL the class balance problems we have. Some classes will need fixing as soon as possible.
We have talked about redistribute some of thorned root damage to other damage sources. I get an idea which may not be the perfect solutuon but i write it here anyway.
Grasping roots is a class mechanism. We could enhance this mechanism a bit. There are two options: 1. Applying a debuff only for HR; 2. Let grasping roots already do certain amount damage.
Then we make thorned root feat only increase the damge by an amount which is smaller than now. My 2 cent.
i like your first ideal what did you have in mind for debuff? second idea isn't bad but better to just improve the control of grasping roots since trappers wont benefit from strong grasping roots. so really your second idea is nice for an archery or combat tree but your just killing dps of the trapper. @flyingleon when you do trapper tree and get thorned roots unlocked it replaces your strong grasping roots not adds to it. so if thorned roots just increases strong grasping roots damage, but trappers don't get strong grasping roots then you get nothing from trapper tree.
sort of off topic, but totally related to healing depression. All the insignia bonuses that heal are not effected by healing depression as far as i know.
Fixed the bug.
Still looking into a few of the others things that have been discussed.
@amenar Wait what? Did you actually fix so there is healing depression on all insignia healing in PvP? Or what bug are you talking about? :S
The patch note reads:
Insignia Bonuses: Are now properly affected by healing debuffs, such as Healing Depression in PvP.
Quick question: - Combat HR - If you do a melee crit, will higher crit severity, mean that "piercing blades" does more damage?
Or is the "piercing blades" damage calculated before crit damage? Looking at the combat feats, it seems that a higher crit percentage is part of the equation (+50% severity), but game calculations might be different. It really determines whether a combat HR should go high crit, or just straight power.
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The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
About the cd: it does not allow to reach max stacks if not pulling half sharandar.
You gave Aimed Shot some needed attention. Archery can tear down single target much better now. Even Trapper can make use of Aimed Shot Along with all the AoE DPS Trapper and Archery can expel. Archery can make use of Plant Growth as well.
Combat has no unique viable source of damage for itself. It's completely reliant on powers the other tree are able to use already for the majority of it's DPS. The at-wills didn't scale up for level 70. Maybe CtG with it's 50% buff might do a little better, but Rapid Strike still needs a large buff to it. 1300 tooltip DPS doesn't cut it for modern content. When other melee classes including the GF have way higher at-will damage. I can burn an encounter for a flurry Rapid Strike crit, and Crushing Surge still deals double the amount of damage with a non-crit. Don't you understand? You can slap in a GF tank, and a GF built to only DPS, and it will fulfill that DPS role much better than Combat could even dream of. Even an OP tank built to deal DPS can take the DPS role and still out perform. Pure support like an Oppressor MoF CW have better DPS output even.
You gave Aimed Shot attention, Archery will be able to perform it's job. 60-120k crits every second with increased crit chance!! Combat is primarily just plain old melee DPS. It can't support a party. If it's lucky enough to land it's crits, they can't even achieve 20k on top of losing crit chance vs Archery gaining crit chance. This is simply unacceptable for a DPS role who has no DPS sources outside of what few encounters it can actually make use of that are on CDs.
Combat had unviable DPS from the beginning of mod 6. That's the reason why it isn't used. That's why it needs buffs that relate to what it's tree and capstone do. Having to burn an encounter just to buff your own at-wills, and they still can't compete with at-wills of other classes. It needs large buffs because it didn't do anything from the beginning.
I'd rather deal damage on top of having the other things fixed. So at least I wouldn't be a burden for the party. Better to do damage than stall for time while not contributing.
Still looking into a few of the others things that have been discussed.
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
So far what I see is this:
Things we got that we actually wanted:
1) Bigger dodge, probably still not big enough, probably still with bugged immunity frames
2) a little bit more damage from encounters, improvements to Hawk and Commanding Shot
3) Faster Aimed Shot, no longer interrupted by taking damage
4) Bigger AoE from Rain of Arrows
5) Slightly better control in pvp, from control durations no longer being subject to deflect
6) Longer DoT in pvp (where it remains mostly irrelevant) from thorned roots/control resistance change. Could actually result in more healing to opponents from deflect/heal insignia bonus.
7) Slight cooldown reductions to some encounters
8) Gushing Wound no longer goes on cooldown on a miss
9) Slight improvements to Combat feat tree
Things we obviously needed, have been saying so for two years, and did not get:
1) significant buffs to base damage of most powers
2) Massive buffs to at-wills to make them relevant again
3) a control break/escape
4) reduction to or elimination of animation to Forest Ghost
5) increase to deflect severity
6) Faster animations to those encounters that are useful in pvp (buffing Gushing Wound without shortening animation was an obvious fail here)
7) Significant cooldown reductions to charge refill times on Cordon and Hindering Shot
8) A source of real burst damage in pvp
9) Undo to the nerf of animation of Boar Charge to make it useful again
10) Improvements to Combat capstone
11) Reduction or elimination of feat/capstone nerfs that are specific to pvp
12) Significant healing from Oak Skin to match mod 6+ HP creep
Things we got that we didn't want at all:
1) Buffs to ambush/bear trap, which no one uses
2) Target cap nerfs to AoE powers, nerfing our dps, control and therefore survivabilty
3) More damage from Forest Ghost, which completely misses the point of the ability
4) Damage from Marauder's Escape, which completely misses the point of the ability
5) Meaningless buffs to at-wills and Oak Skin
Things we narrowly avoided, which were incredibly bad ideas:
1) Charges on Steel Breeze
2) Nerf to range of Marauder's Rush
Still on the agenda:
1) Everything in second section
2) Nerf Thorned Roots damage and compensate by increasing base damage across the board so it affects all trees, for no net loss of damage to Trapper
3) Evaluate control changes over time in pvp to see whether our roots/dazes remain essentially meaningless to BiS opponents
Not sure how 1800 tooltip DPS will fair. Though CWs do 1800 with their chilling cloud as well unbuffed, but they can pile on that crit and secondary DPS sources and damage buffs like there's no tomorrow. I feel that will not come close to competing with AoE output of other classes can do.
The sad part, is that the CW doesn't even need it's at-wills to mow down mobs, yet can still put combat to shame with them.
Rapid Strike is still stuck in purgatory and aimed strike was left alone.
Low tooltip base DPS = less scaling with party buffs = doing even less DPS than other classes.
▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁
Grasping roots is a class mechanism. We could enhance this mechanism a bit. There are two options: 1. Applying a debuff only for HR; 2. Let grasping roots already do certain amount damage.
Then we make thorned root feat only increase the damge by an amount which is smaller than now. My 2 cent.
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Well this is step one. Bringing insignias in line with every other source of healing means from here on they can be balanced later with the devs having a clear view of what is causing too much healing and in what usage rates.
Now, i did not know that insignias did not respect incoming healing, so that needs to be fixed as well if you can @amenar
when things work properly then balancing will be a lot easier later on when it happens
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁
when you do trapper tree and get thorned roots unlocked it replaces your strong grasping roots not adds to it. so if thorned roots just increases strong grasping roots damage, but trappers don't get strong grasping roots then you get nothing from trapper tree.
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Quick question: - Combat HR - If you do a melee crit, will higher crit severity, mean that "piercing blades" does more damage?
Or is the "piercing blades" damage calculated before crit damage? Looking at the combat feats, it seems that a higher crit percentage is part of the equation (+50% severity), but game calculations might be different. It really determines whether a combat HR should go high crit, or just straight power.
Thanks!