Base damage as an executioner. I did get rid of First Strike.
Now, buffed with stealth and Lurker's Assault. Note that TR can remained stealthed and maintain this DPS for the duration of Lurker's
Base damage from my Righteous DC, NO BUFFS
Now buffed, did not get buff from Righteous Suffering so it would be higher than this. Also can't account for the actual debuffs mobs receive. Note that my Combat HR with an extra 100% crit severity crits with rapid strike for only 7k! My DC with a Fey Touched can crit for 17k.
Now let's recap here. Buffed
And the Combat HR again... Buffed
Combat will fail is this isn't addressed! They need at least a flat 85-100% base damage buff.
put this back at top
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feanor70118Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,170Arc User
Question to @amnar. Is it possible to combine a range encounter with another Meele encounter than it's present counterpart? As an example putting marauder escape with ambush without to much hours of programming.
It is possible, and something I think is pretty likely to happen in the future. It was a bit too large of a change for this review.
Nice to hear, since it's something I've been asking for since at least the launch of mod 6. Then we can use Plant Growth without having to deal with the looooooooooooooooong charge refill time of Cordon, and hindering strike without the charge limitations of Hindering Shot, and Split The Sky without the self-nerf of Throw Caution, and Binding Arrow without the far-too-small healing of Oak Skin, and Commanding Shot could become a useful debuff in pvp without being hampered by the still-tiny buff of Stag Heart, and Hawkeye would still be useful for close-in fights when not hampered by the distance requirement of Hawk Shot, and....
Archery - stay out of Meele major damage from Bow at range
Combat - in your face major damage from Meele attacks
Trapper - dash in and out damage from both Meele and bow.
Archery need to be able to get out of Meele and/or avoid Meele which means hinder opponents from reaching him/her or stay undetected. Major problem here is that encounter/feats don't support this. If you look at certain encounters the combination of marauders escape and ambush would be much more useful for the archer then how they are set up now. If you could select a few combinations of already existing encounter in different combinations a lot of archers problem could be solved.
Same goes for combat, imagine marauders rush/cordon etc..
Trapper I leave for now..
When it comes to feats several good suggestions have been made, ghouls66 among others, important to keep in mind is that if you want to further a part t4-t6 should be used.
Trapper capstone offer 30% to damage with 50 % uptime + some ap gain and control bonus(which I doubt do very much). As trapper can utilize fast cool downs to fire a multitude of encounters during the uptime it would not be to much to ask that archers and combat capstone would increase their damage a bit more.
Combat capstone - 100%(or more need to be tested ofc) add damage on all Meele attacks(alternative 50% on encounters) 150% on at wills , testing will get accurate numbers), 15% deflect (allowing Meele style).
Archery capstone - 100% on at wills 50% on encounters (again testing can get accurate numbers) criticals slows target(s) x% stacks x times(can differ in pvp and pve if needed).
This will make for 3 different playstyles that has at least the foundation to support range, meele and dash in and out.
Some class feats are just to bad to even consider using and should be remade to further support the different builds(feel free to add suggestion).
With so little time left my suggestion is that you avoid rambling about if this is that or this when it comes to critical and focus on how to make each path playable(read compatible) and fun to play.
Mod removed flaming. Stop with the personal attacks.
Huge credit to you all others for taking time to test and come up with suggestions....
+1
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Seriously, a TR buffed with 500% more damage in a party, will still be doing nothing with Path of the Blade. Why? Because it already does no damage from the beginning.
(yet half of TRs continue to insist on using it.... ok, I'm done with the off-topic snark)
@amenar just look at the Combat tree and ask yourself these two questions:
Why would you go down the Combat tree to get the Combat Capstone, instead of getting the Trapper Capstone? What does the Combat Capstone bring to the table that is equally as beneficial as the Trapper one?
atm, the only reason to do so, is because you really, really, really like the playstyle. Fact is, hitting twice with an At-Will does not do much good, when the At-Will does such poor Per-Hit Damage. It's really not worthy of the heavy feat point investment of a Capstone, the way it is.
Either the At-Will per-hit damage needs to be drastically increased(either by Feats, or an across the board buff to all at-wills) or the Capstone needs to be changed to something more beneficial to a Combat HR.
there is really no way around this.
until this is done, we'll just be here spinning our wheels about trying to make miniscule piecemeal changes improve the Combat HR.
with 2 damage trees maybe time to make combat a tank like GF with dps and buffs for tanking instead. imagine every one asking for tank and choices are GF or Combat HR. I truthfully see a demand for tanks more than any other class in my higher level runs. let Combat have a part in this. maybe stupid idea but needed in our game
HR is not a defender.....
You can't even be remotely serious here. How in the world is a squishy leather user with deflect only going to tank T2 bosses, OR AGRO THEM...?
my hr is a trapper tanky build so its not impossible to tank @ghoulz66 though its not easy to tank. as you said holding aggro can be hard since hr's only have their dps to even get aggro from other players; and any small healing they do. i use dodge and stuns to tank my fights and i also use deflect as a supportive way to stay alive. but yes you are right its not easy to tank as an hr when dieing in 2-3 hits from strong attacks happens, or dieing in 5-10 hits from normal attacks.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited August 2016
Why is the capstone, the beating heart of Combat's supposed strongest feat, dealing less damage than the Trapper's Thorned Roots? One feat on the trapper tree already overshadows pretty much the entire Combat tree and the reason of going it. Then you have the other Trapper feats including the capstone to further murder it, with a hydrogen bomb.
Just think for a moment. Even if combat was buffed and it's at-wills were dealing the same or more than that of Thorned Roots, Trapper would still beat Combat with utility, CC, and being able to rotate the same encounters much more quickly, resulting in Trappers doing considerably more damage in the end anyway.
with 2 damage trees maybe time to make combat a tank like GF with dps and buffs for tanking instead. imagine every one asking for tank and choices are GF or Combat HR. I truthfully see a demand for tanks more than any other class in my higher level runs. let Combat have a part in this. maybe stupid idea but needed in our game
HR is not a defender.....
You can't even be remotely serious here. How in the world is a squishy leather user with deflect only going to tank T2 bosses, OR AGRO THEM...?
my hr is a trapper tanky build so its not impossible to tank @ghoulz66 though its not easy to tank. as you said holding aggro can be hard since hr's only have their dps to even get aggro from other players; and any small healing they do. i use dodge and stuns to tank my fights and i also use deflect as a supportive way to stay alive.
Stop fooling yourself here. You are still incapable of tanking bosses, like Black Dagger, and more. And you said trapper anyway. Combat can't cycle through CC, gain back stamina rapid, and continue to dodge and spam fox cunning endlessly.
I am just curious, why not just make flurry a permanent feature for combat capstone instead of having it to be triggered? Will that be too overpowered? or will it bring combat more in line with others? or its not enough?
Can we have an indicator that our melee encounters are off cooldown? That way I wouldn't have to switch and check. This will really add a lot to the fluidity of battle.
Also, I do not agree with the nerf in range of marauder's rush. Since, our bow ranges are 80', so should marauder's rush. This will allow us to close the distance immediately after exhausting our ranged encounters. Again combat fluidity is key here.
Lastly, I would like to commend you on being the most communicative combat dev that I have ever come across. Thank you.
It would take way more work to make Combat a tree-specific tank than to make it a competitive dps as it stands.
Sentinel GWFs, though, are waiting in the wings to be tanks- if anyone else should step up to that plate next, its them.
I was very exited when balance started, within some months i would be able to respec sentinel, then ef damage apear and has a very small mitigation, even considering full relic armour and full boons, i may be wrong but i wouldn't give sentinel much hope
About the idea of combat being somewhat a tank seems weird idea, to tank combat sould either mitigate enemy damage, stun or take aggro. A little sugestio towards that: each stack of wilds medicine will provoke a damage debuff on you opponent of 2℅ up to a maximum of 16℅
It would take way more work to make Combat a tree-specific tank than to make it a competitive dps as it stands.
Sentinel GWFs, though, are waiting in the wings to be tanks- if anyone else should step up to that plate next, its them.
I was very exited when balance started, within some months i would be able to respec sentinel, then ef damage apear and has a very small mitigation, even considering full relic armour and full boons, i may be wrong but i wouldn't give sentinel much hope
Yeah, it'll be tough to compare to GF's ability to do so much from behind a shield and to Prot's sanctuary, binding oath, and endless temp HP via TW (not to mention Sentinel's bringing few worthwhile buffs/debuffs that are unique to them), but I guess we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.
@macjae how many top pvp players( taking apart dc faithfull and trs) have a deflection build?
Pretty much everyone will want to have a lot of deflection if and when they can in PvP. Not just DCs and TRs, but CWs, SWs, GWFs, HRs, OPs and GFs. Unlike DR, the damage reduction of Deflect can't be mitigated in most cases, and it also applies against most cc (which has always been a little broken, so it's actually good when that gets fixed, though it should apply for all cc). And deflecting damage also procs Survivor's Blessing. Now, there are reasons not to have as much deflection -- GFs will currently want to stack a lot of Defense to maximize ITF, and they're generally fairly safe behind their shields -- but Deflect is overall the most desirable defensive stat in PvP on average, maybe next to raw hit points.
And even so the deflect would cut the control duration in the amount of the deflect severity, so we can assume: Previous stun time - (previous stun time * 0.85) and now: Current stun time, surelly it hasn't decreased by 85% and will be more effective in those situations, but those situations alone, so yeah it was a nerf.
Actually, the way it seems to work is that when it gets deflected, the time is multiplied by (1 - severity). If you have 50% severity, the effect is reduced by 50%. If you have 85% severity, it's reduced by 85%, so the duration is only 15% of the base time. For a TR with a lot of Deflection -- say, 80% -- that means that the overall effectiveness of Crushing Roots was roughly tripled by making it non-deflectable. However, no one is shedding many tears for TRs, and the effect is less for other classes, but still noticeable. For a character with 60% deflection severity and 50% chance, it's around a 50% increase in overall daze time. That's a pretty enormous boost.
I've seen only a hand full of players with deflection builds as hp is much more reliable, deflection cannot avoid tr's 1shots, and survivors blessing, not to mention is just a drop in the ocean, beside the base deflection of some classes can take care of survivors blessing as almost permanent, with hp you get: better 1 shot protection, better drowned set healing, better wheel of the elements healing/temp hp, better insignia bonus healing, better feat interaction, example gwf heal on unstopable trigger, heal with ferocious reaction and for example having a good amount of hp, geting a big hit from se, 30% of my hp will be fast regain by champion struggle + champion return+ vampire's craving + survivors blessing + drowned set, assuming i didnt go for my wheel,with defletcion i would just drop dead.and......about the deflection severity reduce the control like that, it was what i said......
lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
@amenar: the change made to Hasty Retreat to give a permanent movement speed boost was nice and welcomed but what about something similar for Combat? What made Combat work back in Mods 2 and 3 was that extra movement we had with the pvp 4-piece set bonus. Combat needs that extra speed again - more so than any of the other 2 trees. Combat needs to be fast and agile, adding some more Deflection Chance has helped some but we are lagging way behind in movement since that pvp set bonus fell away and the Mod 6 stat curves, which is especially brutal on movement.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
I am just curious, why not just make flurry a permanent feature for combat capstone instead of having it to be triggered? Will that be too overpowered? or will it bring combat more in line with others? or its not enough?
Even with the rain of swords multi flurry proc things still aren't dropping any faster than what another class could simply do. Even archery can simply down them with a single Cordon while you're wasting your time with this underpowered BS.
Who knows... The DEVs are adamant on keeping combat garbage. I have almost no faith left in them saving it when they won't listen about it's pathetic damage....
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lunartic666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 53Arc User
Before module goes live please make sure piercing blades proc from the dmg in brackets, not from the actual dmg we deal which can be reduced by dr or debuffs.
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
IF something need change should change then no matter if someone investing into something. I Know for example players invested to owlbear cub and cryptic correctly fixing the power sharing but this at the same time means those poeple with owlbear cub will be weaker.
giving this a bump... devs come on. combat tree give it love already this is a joke!
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thatsmeaswellMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 60Arc User
Isnt this how piercing blades worked when it was introduced in mod 4? The damage had been calculated before any damage mitigation if i remember correctly. And because it had been very powerful they changed it in a later module (5?) to how it works now. Maybe now with the immensely increased hp pools everyone and everything has it is time to change it back?
Isnt this how piercing blades worked when it was introduced in mod 4? The damage had been calculated before any damage mitigation if i remember correctly. And because it had been very powerful they changed it in a later module (5?) to how it works now. Maybe now with the immensely increased hp pools everyone and everything has it is time to change it back?
You are correct, this was changed a while ago. At that point, it probably should have been changed to not be considered piercing damage. However, in all of our damage modeling, we are expecting it to be piercing damage. I could just correct the wording, but I don't think that's the change that is needed.
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treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
Isnt this how piercing blades worked when it was introduced in mod 4? The damage had been calculated before any damage mitigation if i remember correctly. And because it had been very powerful they changed it in a later module (5?) to how it works now. Maybe now with the immensely increased hp pools everyone and everything has it is time to change it back?
You are correct, this was changed a while ago. At that point, it probably should have been changed to not be considered piercing damage. However, in all of our damage modeling, we are expecting it to be piercing damage. I could just correct the wording, but I don't think that's the change that is needed.
I keep on explaining what's needed for the massive HP pools of mobs now. Our damage was relatively fine back then during the old level 60 cap. The damage on some of our powers were low, but there were at least working then when mobs had like 4-5k HP in Sharandar But now mobs have like 50k HP in the endgame level 70 zones, and much higher in areas like WoD and IWD.
Because the original damage on many powers were so dramatically low, they have scaled VERY poorly for the new content when mobs have over 5-10x the HP they used to, while HR damage on many attacks only jumped like 2x. The Cordon and Plant Growth that were added with the level 70 cap were the only thing that allowed the HR to not completely sink into oblivion.
Isnt this how piercing blades worked when it was introduced in mod 4? The damage had been calculated before any damage mitigation if i remember correctly. And because it had been very powerful they changed it in a later module (5?) to how it works now. Maybe now with the immensely increased hp pools everyone and everything has it is time to change it back?
You are correct, this was changed a while ago. At that point, it probably should have been changed to not be considered piercing damage. However, in all of our damage modeling, we are expecting it to be piercing damage. I could just correct the wording, but I don't think that's the change that is needed.
@amenar lets at least fix the bug on wild medicine... first: it does not heal the right amount of HP (doesnt scale with total HP) and is then two times affected by depression (healing depression and halved again in pvp maps where healing depression is already active) with the change to battle crazed the one second cooldown for stack smells bad too
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
Isnt this how piercing blades worked when it was introduced in mod 4? The damage had been calculated before any damage mitigation if i remember correctly. And because it had been very powerful they changed it in a later module (5?) to how it works now. Maybe now with the immensely increased hp pools everyone and everything has it is time to change it back?
You are correct, this was changed a while ago. At that point, it probably should have been changed to not be considered piercing damage. However, in all of our damage modeling, we are expecting it to be piercing damage. I could just correct the wording, but I don't think that's the change that is needed.
I keep on explaining what's needed for the massive HP pools of mobs now. Our damage was relatively fine back then during the old level 60 cap. The damage on some of our powers were low, but there were at least working then when mobs had like 4-5k HP in Sharandar But now mobs have like 50k HP in the endgame level 70 zones, and much higher in areas like WoD and IWD.
Because the original damage on many powers were so dramatically low, they have scaled VERY poorly for the new content when mobs have over 5-10x the HP they used to, while HR damage on many attacks only jumped like 2x. The Cordon and Plant Growth that were added with the level 70 cap were the only thing that allowed the HR to not completely sink into oblivion.
The highlighted bit is especially true. If not for those 2 encounters life would be so much harder for my poor Archer.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Aye, all my HRs use R4 PG/CoA these days. Going w/o it on the Combat and Archer HR is like pulling teeth. Would like to be weened off it, but at this stage its far too late to re-balance all other HR powers to be near that par, and I'd rather take a lopsided/rigid path to being competitive than have no route to it at all.
Comments
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Why would you go down the Combat tree to get the Combat Capstone, instead of getting the Trapper Capstone? What does the Combat Capstone bring to the table that is equally as beneficial as the Trapper one?
atm, the only reason to do so, is because you really, really, really like the playstyle. Fact is, hitting twice with an At-Will does not do much good, when the At-Will does such poor Per-Hit Damage. It's really not worthy of the heavy feat point investment of a Capstone, the way it is.
Either the At-Will per-hit damage needs to be drastically increased(either by Feats, or an across the board buff to all at-wills) or the Capstone needs to be changed to something more beneficial to a Combat HR.
there is really no way around this.
until this is done, we'll just be here spinning our wheels about trying to make miniscule piecemeal changes improve the Combat HR.
Just think for a moment. Even if combat was buffed and it's at-wills were dealing the same or more than that of Thorned Roots, Trapper would still beat Combat with utility, CC, and being able to rotate the same encounters much more quickly, resulting in Trappers doing considerably more damage in the end anyway. Stop fooling yourself here. You are still incapable of tanking bosses, like Black Dagger, and more. And you said trapper anyway. Combat can't cycle through CC, gain back stamina rapid, and continue to dodge and spam fox cunning endlessly.
Bottomless Quiver
Your Ranged Powers have 6/12/18/24/30% shorter cooldowns. Additionally u gain 1 extra charge to your range power.
Power like cordon & hawkshot?
Also, I do not agree with the nerf in range of marauder's rush. Since, our bow ranges are 80', so should marauder's rush. This will allow us to close the distance immediately after exhausting our ranged encounters. Again combat fluidity is key here.
Lastly, I would like to commend you on being the most communicative combat dev that I have ever come across. Thank you.
1. Help DEV more easily identify the issue and saving their.
2. Prevent the class hater trolling & tend to destory the class via couple of paragraph with freak typing data values feedbacks
3. Stop dicuss other class performance in particular class feedback post.
About the idea of combat being somewhat a tank seems weird idea, to tank combat sould either mitigate enemy damage, stun or take aggro.
A little sugestio towards that: each stack of wilds medicine will provoke a damage debuff on you opponent of 2℅ up to a maximum of 16℅
<CO docs> .: Petco :. // Base DPS Sheet (needs revision) // PSA on Power Activation Delay
- Themed Tanks // Misc Build Dump // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (stat data)
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1218573/hunter-ranger-piercing-damage-melee-comabat?
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Join the Greycloaks
Ana-GWF SM Destroyer | Farseer-CW MoF Renegade | Leon-GF SM Tactician
Adrik Battlefate-DC DO Virtuous | Cassi Woodsheart-HR PF Trapper
Who knows... The DEVs are adamant on keeping combat garbage. I have almost no faith left in them saving it when they won't listen about it's pathetic damage....
Before module goes live please make sure piercing blades proc from the dmg in brackets, not from the actual dmg we deal which can be reduced by dr or debuffs.
Because the original damage on many powers were so dramatically low, they have scaled VERY poorly for the new content when mobs have over 5-10x the HP they used to, while HR damage on many attacks only jumped like 2x. The Cordon and Plant Growth that were added with the level 70 cap were the only thing that allowed the HR to not completely sink into oblivion.
first: it does not heal the right amount of HP (doesnt scale with total HP)
and is then two times affected by depression (healing depression and halved again in pvp maps where healing depression is already active)
with the change to battle crazed the one second cooldown for stack smells bad too
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
<CO docs> .: Petco :. // Base DPS Sheet (needs revision) // PSA on Power Activation Delay
- Themed Tanks // Misc Build Dump // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (stat data)
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!