Official Feedback Thread: Hunter Ranger changes

carterhimura

It's not related to Hunters but I see Bronzewood ench was fixed so.
BUG: Transcendent Terror Enchantment doesn't reduce Power as it described. Moreover it doesn't root targets.

ralexinor

divectore said:

You should consider that Combat HR is a kamikaze in PVP, you can land a PG, and by the time animation ends, you are already dead, you don't have any stun or any power that deal that much damage for 15 secs, and since you are melee you can just try to run and hide meanwhile because you don't have any way to do damage in range, so GF or GWF will slice you like butter.

Not when you have 80% deflect. Combat HRs are the tankiest of all the trees atm. If you're being "[sliced] like butter" as Combat HR, you don't know how to build or play.

peri87

As you said quite some times...not everyone is BiS, to stack 80%deflect is not simply picking the right feats...

d4rkh0rs3

@ralexinor exactly. I see combat HR deflect possibilites being a huge problem in PvP. There are already many viable HR deflect builds that are so tanky, and now the melee tree will have another 10% on top of that (from Battle Crazed)... whew.

Edit: I can see all the Power, Recovery, Deflect builds without stacking any armor pen on their way now...

marnival

null
Maby @relaxinor but as combat;
Gf still going to 1rotate you
Gwf will still outrun you and probably kill you between cooldowns
Sw same
OP will still be immortal
Tr will exe Itc
Etc etc

So maby (still ned to see it after things go live) Hr also have 1or 2 valid builds.

Or is your suggestion we gimp Hr so they still can not compete while we wait another year or so for some adjustment to the other classes ?

Just saying....

wdj40

flowcyto said:

wdj40 said:

flowcyto said:

lirithiel said:

@flowcyto: If you were attacking just one dummy, Rapid Strike would do considerably more damage than the others, but with CtG and SS you're attacking at least two targets so the numbers will be skewed

Just to clarify: I was only hitting one target (the lone test dummy in IWD that's not surrounded by anything else than can be damaged), so yea these are all single-target dps tests, effectively. So yes, my tests show that even just vs. one target, CtG and Split Strike ideally are very close to Rapid Strike's dps for Combat.

Treesclimber- thanks. I will look into other trees and some more general (aoe and single target) tests later (I'm curious about Archery's tighter AoE dps and how the 'best' single-target dps setups compare between the 3 paths now- though I suspect Archery is the king of that aspect). Not great timing atm irl, but I hope others can get to the shard and muck about w/ rotations when they can.

I guess for the console peeps here: are there any powers (or combos of powers) ur esp curious about? Maybe those of us that can access the shard can look into it for you? I can't do any high-end stuff, pvp, or much group content, but maybe others could.

Yes please... my specific rotation is Pathfinder with Longstriders>Constricting>Hindering with Disruptive Shot and Slasher's Mark as my Dailies, Hunters Teamwork/CA and Rapid Shot/Strike as At-Will's. SM only takes 75% of AP so I can fire both Ranged and Melee Daily in each rotation pretty much.

Aspect of the Serpent and Aspect of the Pack are my Passives with Off-Hand as Pack. 1400 points in Combat Advantage.

I actually have videos I have posted on the HR forums where you can see my rotation in action

Alright, respeced to something like this for the Feats atm (can't fully remember):
http://nwcalc.com/index.html#/hr?b=1oa5:k6rwk5:8dep:5tb7d,1li3i0k:1000000:1000000:15uuzzv&h=0&p=pfr&o=0

Since I use an augment for all my tests, having CA in there would throw it off rel to the other tests I run. So I just slotted Crushing in the 2nd passive slot as a sort of 'default' for Trapper. So yeah, w/ CA this could be even better.

That said, testing vs. the lone dummy (single-target dps):


Unlike w/ live, the smoothness of the rotation isn't dependent on the # targets hit, and for this one I rarely had to use an at-will outside of DA every melee stance. Only messed up LS's buff a few times, and sometimes didn't have quite enough AP for Slasher's, though I could still throw Slasher's into the majority of the rotations at my gear level (5k recovery atm).
Overall it looks like a quite-strong setup still, and esp impressive considering its not using PG/CoA at all.

I don't think Trappers have to worry too much about the SotF changes messing up rotations. Even then, the new R4 Aimed Shot is basically like a moderate-hitting spammable encounter now, so having to use it a bit more here and there isn't really all that bad. On the flipside, single-target dps is up on all fronts.

Ah dude I officially love you ha ha... Thank you for doing that

ghoulz66

wdj40 said:

jhpnw said:

for the record PG is not overpowered. It is our strongest encounter yes but that doesn't make it over powered. Other classes all have big damage encounters. In our guild the power classes GWF can hit for 800 to 1mil for 1 buffed up encounter Cw can hit up to 1.4 mil and TRs can drop buffed encounters at around 1mil. The best I have seen on a HR is 570k on cordon and 670k Sezmic don't fall prey to the nerf squad coming in and keep the OMG this over powered out of the thread. We need to focus on bugs only from here out. HR is in a better place and closer to balance across all trees. Combat piercing is still no where close to High damage of CWF GF or TRs. and its not active for as long as others. So may want to adjust the damage up a little but lets wait till all the changes are live for final adjustments

I`m sorry but I disagree, I don't often say anything we have is over powered but PG just is. I can go through CN with a group of any 5 randoms... I can spam Constricting Arrow > Fox's Cunning > Plant Growth

I could add other attacks into the mix but you can quite literally spam that through the whole dungeon. PG causes a huge amount of damage compared to anything else we can equip. PG is one of the culprits of why certain people think Trapper is over powered. It is not the cool downs that were over powered, it really was pretty much PG and a couple of broken mechanics.

Just have a quick look at my clip about DPS mode on my Hunter Ranger Trapper Preservation thread. That short 5min clip of the end, the leaderboard pops up and I hit 222mil in Epic Grey Wolf. Just spamming those 3 powers over and over, not even bothering to get Stacks of AotS up or worrying about Critting Careful Attack.

On live with my trapper, the content is pretty trivial when I can rush each pack and apply a longstrider buffed PG for 50k+ per tick which hits way harder than my exe's whirlwind of blades from stealth. That's a daily, it can't be spammed for each and every pack.

jhpnw

PG causes a huge amount of damage compared to anything else we can equip. Not vs what other classes can equip.


read my comment Pg is strong but at bottom of the list of strong encounters vs other classes strong encounters/ It does not need to be stronger due to we can use it more often. Even after balance we Still will not top GWF or CW in pain giver when all 3 are 4k il vs my BIS trapper/ What it all boils down to who does not error wins. I Have to get my encounters off ist or they dps everything before me. and with 5 max aoe you will see Damage on PG decrease so it does not need nerf. Especially when bonding will be adjusted in near future . please on times where we are being studied don't mention nerf word or Over powered.

aaramis75

ghoulz66 said:

On live with my trapper, the content is pretty trivial when I can rush each pack and apply a longstrider buffed PG for 50k+ per tick which hits way harder than my exe's whirlwind of blades from stealth. That's a daily, it can't be spammed for each and every pack.

True, but not a fair comparison. Whirlwhind also comes with a hard stun, and doubles your power - letting you follow it up with most likely a very heavy hitting smoke bomb (and if MI Exe, probably from stealth due to using your daily resulting in a double-powered auto-crit auto-CA smoke bomb).

I'm in the "please don't nerf PG" camp. PG and CoA are the ONLY heavy hitting power we have, and aren't horribly OP for PvE. Come this patch, Archers will be popping out 80+k Aimed Shots every couple of seconds, which are easily 100+k with a few buffs. And if they slot the artifact power for it, they'll be running at crazy speeds all the while doing it.

If we're ok with *that*, then certainly a buffed PG + piercing blades isn't too bad either.

If it'll ruin PvP, then just halve the damage rather than nerfing the power as a whole.

patcherrkm

aaramis75 said:

ghoulz66 said:

On live with my trapper, the content is pretty trivial when I can rush each pack and apply a longstrider buffed PG for 50k+ per tick which hits way harder than my exe's whirlwind of blades from stealth. That's a daily, it can't be spammed for each and every pack.

True, but not a fair comparison. Whirlwhind also comes with a hard stun, and doubles your power - letting you follow it up with most likely a very heavy hitting smoke bomb (and if MI Exe, probably from stealth due to using your daily resulting in a double-powered auto-crit auto-CA smoke bomb).

I'm in the "please don't nerf PG" camp. PG and CoA are the ONLY heavy hitting power we have, and aren't horribly OP for PvE. Come this patch, Archers will be popping out 80+k Aimed Shots every couple of seconds, which are easily 100+k with a few buffs. And if they slot the artifact power for it, they'll be running at crazy speeds all the while doing it.

If we're ok with *that*, then certainly a buffed PG + piercing blades isn't too bad either.

If it'll ruin PvP, then just halve the damage rather than nerfing the power as a whole.

A GF can one rotate someone. A TR can do it. But low and behold, if under the right conditions an HR managed to one rotate someone then all hell has frozen over.

Even on PBE the GF can still one rotate BiS players. They don't even need to get lucky and crit to do it. If numbers need to get tweaked then that's fine. But just being able to one rotate someone under the right condition is apparently not a problem in this game. It's been part of the game for a while. And in real high end PvP, the one shot has been the only reliable way to kill anyone for quite a while.

I for one don't want to see piercing damage go away again. Maybe tone down the %. But then again the only real burst is on plant growth. Everything else is fairly low damage. 50% of low damage is still pretty low. So the only real burst is plant growth which is pretty clunky in PvP. And only if you crit. And only if you have dread enchant. And... it's a very specific build to get the damage numbers sky high.

Irregardless, I still think you will see archery HR's. I still think people will go trapper for more rotations. And yes, I think people may finally play combat HR's because they have the potential to one-rotate someone. If you think they will one-rotate everyone then youre delusional because the other classes are slippery as hell and they have teeth of their own. They have control. dodges. etc.

Honestly, this just brings HR's back into tier 1 threats, same as GF, and TR in PvP.

patcherrkm

marnival said:

null

Maby @relaxinor but as combat;

Gf still going to 1rotate you

Gwf will still outrun you and probably kill you between cooldowns

Sw same

OP will still be immortal

Tr will exe Itc

Etc etc



So maby (still ned to see it after things go live) Hr also have 1or 2 valid builds.



Or is your suggestion we gimp Hr so they still can not compete while we wait another year or so for some adjustment to the other classes ?



Just saying....

bump. truth. We will not be immortal, but a combat HR would simply have big teeth like everyone else. im pretty sure that dude only plays to bug test. im happy he does, but not sure if he has interest in HR's being on the level with TR's or GFs.

ghoulz66

So how deal with it?

PB is half as effective in pvp? Make PB only apply to first hit of PG?

rayrdan

metalldjt said:

ghoulz66 said:

So how deal with it?

PB is half as effective in pvp? Make PB only apply to first hit of PG?

i would say a ICD or a LIMITER to not go over 10k damage would help alot.. in like 2 minutes of fightin a HR i got 200proccs of PB, varries from 1k to 14k .

i dont think there is a point in makin it be less effective, because that 25% value can be a different number in the future.

Limiting the damage to not go more tahn 10k and puttin a ICD of 1-2s would be the wisest choice, what would u say ?

i say no, i spent all today in preview testing and its far more balanced than what you are saying.
cant kill dcs, good fights vs GFs and GWF . ask @whitespicyrice, me hero and ripper fought vs his gwf.

zonoske

Let's remember combat tree has no cool down reduction so plant growth isn't spammable.

ghoulz66

metalldjt said:

ghoulz66 said:

So how deal with it?

PB is half as effective in pvp? Make PB only apply to first hit of PG?

i would say a ICD or a LIMITER to not go over 10k damage would help alot.. in like 2 minutes of fightin a HR i got 200proccs of PB, varries from 1k to 14k .

i dont think there is a point in makin it be less effective, because that 25% value can be a different number in the future.

Limiting the damage to not go more tahn 10k and puttin a ICD of 1-2s would be the wisest choice, what would u say ?

That idea murders it for PVE.

I also wonder if they plan to increase the Flurry duration with a damage cut.

But PG is the biggest offender for PVP with multi proc PB ticks. Like a mini AOE SE.

I hate PG with a passion. One of the most lazy skills to use that also hits hard. And skill oriented powers like Shard of Endless Avalanche were nerfed to oblivion. Even the SW doesn't have CQC powers that are this good. Hadar's Tap on the Shoulder.

feanor70118

wdj40 said:

lol, we are back to exactly what I 1st thought, Plant Growth is over powered... It should have been nerfed and the other Encounter/Daily/At-Will Powers given substantial boosts. You can tell it is over powered as a stupidly high number of people equip it.

It is almost like CoA/PG is a mod 11 power and all our other Encounter/Daily/At-Will Powers are Mod 6-8, damage wise.

I'd say PG is the ONLY mod 6 encounter we have (sort of excepting Longstrider's/Gushing Wound, which remains all but useless in pvp because of stupidly long animation) while the rest are back at mod 3.

There's no reason to nerf it. If you want variety in rotations, ask for other powers to be buffed, not for our one useful damage dealing ability to be nerfed.

kangkeok

Glad to see combat HR is back. At least we can see all 3 path clearly now. Archer being a range heavy hitter, combat for his piercing burst dmg and high deflect (back to mod 4 i suppose) & trapper being fast encounter and CC spamming.

jhpnw

Been in preview all day combat nice for pvp trapper better for pve did have fun respect to combat piercing nice boost but eoa gf step in One Rotate bis combat like that combat not over powered but gf 4.3il vs combat hr All bis 170k hp gone in 10 seconds with fox and fg I lasted a little longer but could not damage him he was blocking me and I lost due to could not keep up enough encounters due to cooldowns but that's just me with new build may be able to find a better rotation

tomiotar

I've just made another 4 copys of my 2.8 IL HR after the last nigth changes and did Bigrin tombs with combatlog for each set up:

1) HR Archer-Pathfinder: This toon deals a massive amount of damage at range, when the mob group was small enough or they were at least packed to get them even more packed with cordon I could deal with them before they were able to reach me. The new aim-shot act as another encounter, but a much better one because it allow you to use the others faster while dealing a lot of damage. Now, once the mob get close to you the history is completly different and then is like Plant growth, shift and more cordon because the Archer is weak as a kitten tied up in the midle of pack of hungry wolfs, you have to run or you die. If they manage to CC you then you have no defense, I guess thats very representative of what archers has been on the course of the history but it does get annoying.

2) HR Combat-Stormwarden: I never use Combat so I'm kinda new. I've use this rotation first cordon (to get the first shot), then split the sky (rigth in front me), then fox shift to deflect the first hits and then I've used the inverse order, first fox(to get in the middle) then throw caution (to increase my damage) and the plant growth with the damage buffed. If anything remain alive CTG with ocational more Fox shift buff when it was out of CD and shifting to reduce CDs of the melee encounters and avoid red zones. That rotation worked extremly well and I have to say that the damage or survability didnt feel low, but nothing to brag about. I did died once because I got 3 zombies exploding at same time and I was controled so I couldnt to shift away.

3) HR Trapper-Stormwarden: First I wasnt full trapper, I've put 15 points on combat to get the 15% damage increase on encounters. I did the classic cordon+hindering+constricting and it same way that works perfect on the Live still work perfect on the preview.

4)HR Full trapper-Pathfinder: Similar to the stormwarden version it worked flawsly. I didn't noticed that my encounters damage was decreased while playing it, but the ACT log showed that the Plant Growth did more damage than my thorned roots in the case of the stormwarden with 15 points on combat and that my thorned root did about the same damage than the PG with a full trapper feated toon.

After trying them a bit my conclusions are, if you are doing a dungeon and you have a tank to keep the mobs out of you I believe that the most damage dealing build is going to be the Archer (using the rigth class features and powers). If you are the classic solo player that want the best balance on survability AND damage then the trapper remains as the best option. The combat path if I compare it on PVE is going to have less damage than the archer and trapper, but according to my log the % of damage provided by piercing blades is really large even on PVE, so on PVP probably is going to be extremly annoying bypassing the defences.

With so little time I think the devs did a very good job giving a pourpose for each path (Archer=Dungeon/party play, Trapper=solo play, Combat=PVP). Now I'm not completly sure if the buffs were high enough to actually give a chance to appear on the "paingiver" vs other DPS classes (Combat path is going to remain extremly far from GWFs), but then I guess is time to wait and see how the devs continue doing the balance to other classes.

ghoulz66

metalldjt said:

ghoulz66 said:

metalldjt said:

ghoulz66 said:

So how deal with it?

PB is half as effective in pvp? Make PB only apply to first hit of PG?

i would say a ICD or a LIMITER to not go over 10k damage would help alot.. in like 2 minutes of fightin a HR i got 200proccs of PB, varries from 1k to 14k .

i dont think there is a point in makin it be less effective, because that 25% value can be a different number in the future.

Limiting the damage to not go more tahn 10k and puttin a ICD of 1-2s would be the wisest choice, what would u say ?

That idea murders it for PVE.

I also wonder if they plan to increase the Flurry duration with a damage cut.

But PG is the biggest offender for PVP with multi proc PB ticks. Like a mini AOE SE.

I hate PG with a passion. One of the most lazy skills to use that also hits hard. And skill oriented powers like Shard of Endless Avalanche were nerfed to oblivion. Even the SW doesn't have CQC powers that are this good. Hadar's Tap on the Shoulder.

i dont care about Plant Growth honestly, the problem is with the Piercing Blades , is the piercing damage based of the ( damage) which ticks continuasly, there is no limit , in a group party all those HR combos will hit harder , because buffs from other classes, so it goes without sayin that the piercing damage will be stronger since the initial hit in the (DAMAGE ) will be HIGHER, thats why there should be a LIMITER for PVP (lets not have combat pve to suffer) that limits the damage and also a smal ICD, in rest i dont see it being OP anymore, but still resonable.

so having a Combat HR in your party will be useless to clear everyone in a OVERPOWERED manner..

- Set up a limit for PB to hit it should be from 0- 10.000, it shouldn't go over 10.000 , and put a Internal cooldown on it of 2s-4s .

Or else we replaced GFs with a bigger nuisance.

here i was thinkin that next classes that could get to be tonned down/adjusted class review were the GWF, TR and DC , but if you let the combat HR go as it is, the purpose of the class review FAILED.

Where are you getting this PB getting overbuffed from party buffs at?

ghoulz66

metalldjt said:

ghoulz66 said:

metalldjt said:

ghoulz66 said:

metalldjt said:

ghoulz66 said:

So how deal with it?

PB is half as effective in pvp? Make PB only apply to first hit of PG?

i would say a ICD or a LIMITER to not go over 10k damage would help alot.. in like 2 minutes of fightin a HR i got 200proccs of PB, varries from 1k to 14k .

i dont think there is a point in makin it be less effective, because that 25% value can be a different number in the future.

Limiting the damage to not go more tahn 10k and puttin a ICD of 1-2s would be the wisest choice, what would u say ?

That idea murders it for PVE.

I also wonder if they plan to increase the Flurry duration with a damage cut.

But PG is the biggest offender for PVP with multi proc PB ticks. Like a mini AOE SE.

I hate PG with a passion. One of the most lazy skills to use that also hits hard. And skill oriented powers like Shard of Endless Avalanche were nerfed to oblivion. Even the SW doesn't have CQC powers that are this good. Hadar's Tap on the Shoulder.

i dont care about Plant Growth honestly, the problem is with the Piercing Blades , is the piercing damage based of the ( damage) which ticks continuasly, there is no limit , in a group party all those HR combos will hit harder , because buffs from other classes, so it goes without sayin that the piercing damage will be stronger since the initial hit in the (DAMAGE ) will be HIGHER, thats why there should be a LIMITER for PVP (lets not have combat pve to suffer) that limits the damage and also a smal ICD, in rest i dont see it being OP anymore, but still resonable.

so having a Combat HR in your party will be useless to clear everyone in a OVERPOWERED manner..

- Set up a limit for PB to hit it should be from 0- 10.000, it shouldn't go over 10.000 , and put a Internal cooldown on it of 2s-4s .

Or else we replaced GFs with a bigger nuisance.

here i was thinkin that next classes that could get to be tonned down/adjusted class review were the GWF, TR and DC , but if you let the combat HR go as it is, the purpose of the class review FAILED.

Where are you getting this PB getting overbuffed from party buffs at?

the PB is not gettin buffed directly (idk if it does)
but it's enough for HR atwills/encounters/dailies to get buffed from a Devoted cleric or a ITF from a GF and these results in PB hit harder.

Getting buffs, hitting harder. Isn't that the whole point? Every class does that

ghoulz66

defiantone99 said:

HR should be doing massive damage. Only the best ones on live are great, and that is only due to bugs that are being fixed. I did not hear or read anywhere that the goal of class balance was to nerf everybody's DPS.

Well I'll certainly be glad I won't need to spam longstrider plant growth steel breeze nonsense anymore.

How much DPS is the question. Compared to archery. Combat could probably compete in AoE add infested runs, but the risk of being up in there and being slow as molasses makes up for it. It'll still stand zero chance of competing with archery as an undisputed boss killer so be at least excel in one role which is mopping up adds.

beckylunatic

carterhimura said:

It's not related to Hunters but I see Bronzewood ench was fixed so.
BUG: Transcendent Terror Enchantment doesn't reduce Power as it described. Moreover it doesn't root targets.

Trans Terror most certainly roots targets in PvE, at least when I'm using it on my CW. It plays no rooting animation, but for example in the Arcane Reservoir, it can stop a Thorn running to light a barrel dead in its tracks without my having applied a separate freeze or stun (AoE from casting Conduit on the Cyclops).

ghoulz66

metalldjt said:

ghoulz66 said:

metalldjt said:

ghoulz66 said:

metalldjt said:

ghoulz66 said:

metalldjt said:

ghoulz66 said:

So how deal with it?

PB is half as effective in pvp? Make PB only apply to first hit of PG?

i would say a ICD or a LIMITER to not go over 10k damage would help alot.. in like 2 minutes of fightin a HR i got 200proccs of PB, varries from 1k to 14k .

i dont think there is a point in makin it be less effective, because that 25% value can be a different number in the future.

Limiting the damage to not go more tahn 10k and puttin a ICD of 1-2s would be the wisest choice, what would u say ?

That idea murders it for PVE.

I also wonder if they plan to increase the Flurry duration with a damage cut.

But PG is the biggest offender for PVP with multi proc PB ticks. Like a mini AOE SE.

I hate PG with a passion. One of the most lazy skills to use that also hits hard. And skill oriented powers like Shard of Endless Avalanche were nerfed to oblivion. Even the SW doesn't have CQC powers that are this good. Hadar's Tap on the Shoulder.

i dont care about Plant Growth honestly, the problem is with the Piercing Blades , is the piercing damage based of the ( damage) which ticks continuasly, there is no limit , in a group party all those HR combos will hit harder , because buffs from other classes, so it goes without sayin that the piercing damage will be stronger since the initial hit in the (DAMAGE ) will be HIGHER, thats why there should be a LIMITER for PVP (lets not have combat pve to suffer) that limits the damage and also a smal ICD, in rest i dont see it being OP anymore, but still resonable.

so having a Combat HR in your party will be useless to clear everyone in a OVERPOWERED manner..

- Set up a limit for PB to hit it should be from 0- 10.000, it shouldn't go over 10.000 , and put a Internal cooldown on it of 2s-4s .

Or else we replaced GFs with a bigger nuisance.

here i was thinkin that next classes that could get to be tonned down/adjusted class review were the GWF, TR and DC , but if you let the combat HR go as it is, the purpose of the class review FAILED.

Where are you getting this PB getting overbuffed from party buffs at?

the PB is not gettin buffed directly (idk if it does)
but it's enough for HR atwills/encounters/dailies to get buffed from a Devoted cleric or a ITF from a GF and these results in PB hit harder.

Getting buffs, hitting harder. Isn't that the whole point? Every class does that

[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Player 29 deals 1998 (24976) Physical Damage to you with Plant Growth.

[Combat (Self)] Player 29 deals 12488 Physical Damage to you with Piercing Blade.

the 12.488 is the half of the plant growth , now imagine Plant growth hiting harder , because the buffs from the group, now that wouldn't be a problem, the issue is that piercing damage will be higher, so if you have lets say

[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Player 29 deals 20000 (120000) Physical Damage to you with Plant Growth.

[Combat (Self)] Player 29 deals 60000 Physical Damage to you with Piercing Blade.

you see the possibilities of being overpowered?

Limiting it only in PvP to never go beyond 10.000 damage and have a 2s ICD will not ruin the HR.

The way the damage for combat Hunter Ranger works on PTR is the exactly thing that we didnt wished for the HR from the class review.

All you mentioned was PG. Just have PB apply to PG on first tick. No need to nerf it to oblivion.

flowcyto

Alright, finally getting this out of the way. Time to dump an array diff single-target dummy tests here. Just gonna list the powers used and post links to the ACT caps, for brevity's sake. Most rotations (save some of Archer's) aren't very rigid and I do flub things here and there, but tests are close to 4 mins each to reduce player error. All powers listed are at rank 4, and all HRs are ~2.65k ilvl using a goat augment.

NOTE: CoA and Bear Trap do NOT trigger on test dummies! So, their dps is excluded from any recorded test w/ ACT.
(for lessons on triggering, I suggest CoA and Bear Trap go visit Tumblr)

= TRAPPER - Pathfinder (AotS + Crushing Roots) =

Test 1: Hindering, Constricting, CoA/PG, Slasher's + Disruptive, Aimed Shot/Strike filler:
http://oi65.tinypic.com/k355z6.jpg
27.2k dps (+ ???dps from CoA)

Test 2: Hindering, Binding, Rain of Arrows, Slashers + Disruptive, Careful Attack:
http://oi65.tinypic.com/2rzrs6g.jpg
http://oi63.tinypic.com/6nw39v.jpg
18.5k + 7.68k (RoA) = 26.2k dps

Test 3: Hindering, Constricting, Thorn Ward, Slasher's + Disruptive, Careful Attack, Aimed Shot/Strike filler:
http://oi64.tinypic.com/14298hi.jpg
http://oi64.tinypic.com/11kxz46.jpg
22.3k + 6.28k (TWard) = 28.6k dps

Test 4: Hindering, Constricting, Maurader's Escape/Rush (aka In&Out), Slasher's, Aimed Shot filler:
http://oi63.tinypic.com/2z8c777.jpg
20.2k dps

Test 5: Hindering, Rain of Arrows, Thorn Ward, Slasher's + Disruptive, Careful Attack:
http://oi66.tinypic.com/2ailk3k.jpg
http://oi64.tinypic.com/10qkra8.jpg
http://oi66.tinypic.com/vs10u1.jpg
21.4k + 8.69k (RoA) + 5.4k (TWard) = 35.5k dps


= COMBAT - Stormwarden (Blade Storm + SSA) =

Test 1: Throw Caution, PG, Thorn Strike, Disruptive on cd, Aimed/Rapid Strike filler:
http://oi68.tinypic.com/2ahbdpg.jpg
32.2k dps

Test 2: Throw Caution, PG, Gushing Wound, Disruptive on cd, Aimed/Rapid Strike filler:
http://oi65.tinypic.com/11b7ko4.jpg
30.7k dps

Test 3: Throw Caution, Hawkeye, Gushing Wound, Disruptive on cd, Aimed/Rapid Strike filler:
http://oi68.tinypic.com/25aqb0o.jpg
29.2k dps

Test 4: Throw Caution, Thorn Strike, Gushing Wound + Thorn Ward, Disruptive on cd, Aimed/Rapid Strike filler:
http://oi68.tinypic.com/34nr02e.jpg
http://oi65.tinypic.com/mhzyn8.jpg
33.3k + 4.64k (TWard) = 37.9k dps

Test 5: Hawkeye, PG, Thorn Strike, Disruptive on cd, Aimed/Rapid Strike filler:
http://oi68.tinypic.com/2wchfue.jpg
25.0k dps

Test 6: Boar Charge, Rain of Swords, Thorn Strike, Disruptive on cd, Aimed/Rapid Strike filler:
http://oi67.tinypic.com/2iuumns.jpg
20.7k dps

Test 7: Boar Charge, Rain of Swords, Throw Caution, Disruptive on cd, Aimed/Rapid Strike filler:
http://oi67.tinypic.com/1248qow.jpg
21.5k dps

Test 8: Throw Caution, Thorn Strike, Marauder's Rush, Disruptive on cd, Aimed/Rapid Strike filler:
http://oi67.tinypic.com/11cfd5f.jpg
26.9k dps

Test 9: Fox Shift, Hindering Strike, Steel Breeze, Disruptive on cd, Aimed/Rapid Strike filler:
http://oi67.tinypic.com/2rnyp1g.jpg
18.9k dps


= ARCHERY - Stormwarden (SSA + AotLW) =

Test 1: Longstrider's, Commanding Shot, Hawk Shot, Disruptive on cd, Aimed Shot filler:
http://oi65.tinypic.com/2n8c7ew.jpg
32.6k dps

Test 2: Longstrider's, Commanding Shot, Thorn Ward, Disruptive on cd, Aimed Shot filler:
http://oi67.tinypic.com/a4xudv.jpg
http://oi63.tinypic.com/35co8kp.jpg
29.3k + 9.76k (TWard) = 39.1k dps

Test 3: Commanding Shot, Thrown Ward, Rain of Arrows, Disruptive on cd, Aimed Shot filler:
http://oi68.tinypic.com/16hky1h.jpg
http://oi67.tinypic.com/2s1agch.jpg
http://oi65.tinypic.com/n6api1.jpg
16.3k + 7.57k (RoA) + 4.04k (TWard) = 27.9k dps

Test 4: Longstrider's, Commanding Shot, Hawk Shot, Disruptive on cd, Rapid Shot filler:
http://oi68.tinypic.com/155kllc.jpg
24.2k dps

Test 5: Longstrider's, Commanding Shot, Thorn Ward, Disruptive on cd, Rapid Shot filler:
http://oi65.tinypic.com/s2ryae.jpg
http://oi66.tinypic.com/33lmn9k.jpg
21.2k + 9.96k (TWard) = 31.2k dps

-
So, Aimed Shot leaves Rapid Shot in the dust for Archers now. Target-required Gushing Wound seems to cause you to port behind smaller targets (good for flanking, bad for messing w/ camera orientation), and for some reason it was procing my Imperial set bonus like crazy. Combat is all over the place depending on the encounters chosen (very strong to 'eh'). And Trappers have a few relatively strong single-target options.

Hope that helped gauge things a bit. I'll try to throw in some quick tests from other classes for more refs.

genjundead

well it sounds like the hr trees are finally on par with each other, congrats.
now we just need to get them on par with other classes.

wdj40

feanor70118 said:

wdj40 said:

lol, we are back to exactly what I 1st thought, Plant Growth is over powered... It should have been nerfed and the other Encounter/Daily/At-Will Powers given substantial boosts. You can tell it is over powered as a stupidly high number of people equip it.

It is almost like CoA/PG is a mod 11 power and all our other Encounter/Daily/At-Will Powers are Mod 6-8, damage wise.

I'd say PG is the ONLY mod 6 encounter we have (sort of excepting Longstrider's/Gushing Wound, which remains all but useless in pvp because of stupidly long animation) while the rest are back at mod 3.

There's no reason to nerf it. If you want variety in rotations, ask for other powers to be buffed, not for our one useful damage dealing ability to be nerfed.

Errr I did ask for buffs to powers... in that exact sentence you just quoted from me. All I said was what SHOULD have happened... makes no difference now as what I think should have happened and what has happened are 2 completely different things.

ghoulz66

Less it is BiS with 70%+ deflect I don't really see how a combat HR can possibly dominate a pvp match. A lot of HAMSTER simply out run it making getting off melee attacks more difficult. Get in chip damage with encounters, but they still keep their distance. Combat is still squishy as hell when it doesn't deflect hits.

It's a really slow melee attacker who depends on encounters for gap closers. Piercing damage to sneak in the DPS, but it's not a GWF who can shrug off CC and be in your face in a heart beat. It can't really spam encounters frequently enough to really melt anything. Ya, Flurry, but you know when the HR gets it, as soon as he uses an encounter on you. All you do is keep off him for a couple seconds and that danger is immediately dealt with. Almost every class can avoid this with a dodge, or by simply moving much faster.


I really wondered why archery wasn't the one who got piercing damage, aside from the longshot. It needs all the burst it can get before it gets CC'd to death.

ralexinor

@peri87 if you don't have at least 70% deflect you're doing the wrong thing as combat. I have zero deflect gear and no deflect boons and 85% deflect is very achievable.

Also @ghoulz66 the change to piercing blades that went live this patch is actually a huge nerf to pve combat, since a lot of buffs and debuffs are the post mitigation damage, so you can see a loss as big as 50% damage now.

flowcyto

flowcyto said:

...
I'll try to throw in some quick tests from other classes for more refs.

Whelp, don't get ur hopes up too high I suppose, rofl. Here's some quick single-target parses of some of my other toons; all similar ilvl, goat augment:

- Exec/MI TR: Duelist's Flurry spam, stealth + Wicked Reminder for Shadow of Demise, Lurker's Assault:
http://oi65.tinypic.com/fbvrps.jpg
62.2k dps (yuup..)

- Destroyer/SM GWF: WMS + Sure Strike, Daring Shout, Hidden Daggers, Battle Frenzy, Crescendo (ie. at-will spec):
http://oi66.tinypic.com/2lnfuib.jpg
56.2k dps

- Fury/SB SW: BotVA, WB, Soul Scorch, Immolation Spirits (SS spam spec):
http://oi68.tinypic.com/63zokw.jpg
http://oi63.tinypic.com/28tucuh.jpg
40.5k + 7.26k (ISpirits) = 47.8k dps

- Justice/Prot OP: VoE, Smite, PoP, Divine Judgement, Shielding and Radiant Strike:
http://oi68.tinypic.com/nwmrur.jpg
33.8k dps

- Thaum/MoF CW: tab CoI, Fanning the Flame, Enfeeble Ray, Disintegrate, Ice Knife, Magic Missiles:
http://oi67.tinypic.com/5un2tz.jpg
39.2k dps

- Fury/HB SW: PoP, KF, Fiery Bolt, Flames of Phleg, Eld Blast + Hellish Rebuke (firelock):
http://oi68.tinypic.com/2rmt9vs.jpg
31.9k dps

...

Well, many HR setups could hang w/ the 'dps-adin' and the firelock (latter not being able to realize Killing/Murderous Flames and Executioner's Gift fully), at least :x

I guess HRs in general still have decent AoE (PG/CoA, mostly), Thorned Roots, and stuff like Hawkeye or Longstrider's.


Here, HR's, let my Sentinel GWF's single-target 'dps' cheer you up!:

16k dps. The same class that's responsible for the 56k dps parse above. Yay, NW balance!