I don't understand these posts. Just be the most effective you can be at your class and have fun. Stop worrying so much about what other people are doing...
3.5k HB Temptation -- Dread Legion Xbox GT -- Mr Shabok My Guide
Whoa guys. I didn't intend to upset people. By beast I mean that unstoppable feat. It doesn't require AP or recovery and makes you tanky. I don't think GWFs should be nerfed. I agree with a post above that they make the current content more possible. Like I said before. Especially Tiamat. That run saves time. That said, I don't remember GWF's being incredibly awful in earlier mods. I did the Mod2/3 campaigns with a GWF no problem. I don't do NWO PvP so I can't speak to that. Mobs were easier back then and it was before they nerfed stats (100 for 1% for 400 for 1%), so low rank stones went further. Really, why shouldn't GWFs have the highest DPS? They're a 1-trick pony. No CC, no stealth, no buffs. DPS is really the only purpose they serve. They're dailies are not that great. I'm a tank class so I'd gain nothing by their nerf. See, I'm on your side. We frens again?
I play a 3,7k CW.. and when I am in a group with a similarily geared dps GWF he easily do 2-3 times as much damage. Which is way too much.
The dps advantage a GWF should have over CW because CW has more utility should not be more than 30% at most. 2-3 times as much damage is ridiculous.
So yes, a heavy GWF nerf should happen.
But start with bringing down the seriously OPed Lostmauth set to sane levels.
How much CC a CW brings? Is CW CC worth only 30% DPS? Expecially if, most likely, in the future with fixed OPs, CC will be needed. If, even now, you run without an OP, CC is golden. I wouldn't rate it equal to a 30% DPS difference.
So i'd take a look at how much CC a CW brings, and how valuable it is with proper PvE content (3k dungeons and "fixed" OPs).
Whoa guys. I didn't intend to upset people. By beast I mean that unstoppable feat. It doesn't require AP or recovery and makes you tanky. I don't think GWFs should be nerfed. I agree with a post above that they make the current content more possible. Like I said before. Especially Tiamat. That run saves time. That said, I don't remember GWF's being incredibly awful in earlier mods. I did the Mod2/3 campaigns with a GWF no problem. I don't do NWO PvP so I can't speak to that. Mobs were easier back then and it was before they nerfed stats (100 for 1% for 400 for 1%), so low rank stones went further. Really, why shouldn't GWFs have the highest DPS? They're a 1-trick pony. No CC, no stealth, no buffs. DPS is really the only purpose they serve. They're dailies are not that great. I'm a tank class so I'd gain nothing by their nerf. See, I'm on your side. We frens again?
They don't need good dailies because they deal most of their damage with at-wills ...
How much CC a CW brings? Is CW CC worth only 30% DPS? Expecially if, most likely, in the future with fixed OPs, CC will be needed. If, even now, you run without an OP, CC is golden. I wouldn't rate it equal to a 30% DPS difference.
If OPs get nerfed they'll either be worse than GFs or better than GFs. If they're worse than GFs people will just take GFs in their party and step on red circles less. We still won't need CC. If OPs are still better than GFs not much changes.
I play a 3,7k CW.. and when I am in a group with a similarily geared dps GWF he easily do 2-3 times as much damage. Which is way too much.
The dps advantage a GWF should have over CW because CW has more utility should not be more than 30% at most. 2-3 times as much damage is ridiculous.
So yes, a heavy GWF nerf should happen.
But start with bringing down the seriously OPed Lostmauth set to sane levels.
How much CC a CW brings? Is CW CC worth only 30% DPS? Expecially if, most likely, in the future with fixed OPs, CC will be needed. If, even now, you run without an OP, CC is golden. I wouldn't rate it equal to a 30% DPS difference.
So i'd take a look at how much CC a CW brings, and how valuable it is with proper PvE content (3k dungeons and "fixed" OPs).
Right now, CC isn't worth anything, controllable mobs last few seconds with a correct GWF and don't deal enough damage to be dangerous.
What's the importance of CC on an uncontrolable boss which is the only difficulty in any of the content brought to us?
Also, pando you seem to imply mof CWs have less control than storm CWs, well, they have exactly the same controlling powers, even a bit more with their daily.
And to the CW is only a controller argument, well I think devs stated differently when they gave is a power called DISINTEGRATE.
So I'd take a look at how much CC a CW brings and how valuable it when GWFs and SWs will no longer destroy everything in seconds.
And again I don't want a huge nerf to their DPS, just a slight tone down so they don't deal 2-3x damage from other classes.
Whoa guys. I didn't intend to upset people. By beast I mean that unstoppable feat. It doesn't require AP or recovery and makes you tanky. I don't think GWFs should be nerfed. I agree with a post above that they make the current content more possible. Like I said before. Especially Tiamat. That run saves time. That said, I don't remember GWF's being incredibly awful in earlier mods. I did the Mod2/3 campaigns with a GWF no problem. I don't do NWO PvP so I can't speak to that. Mobs were easier back then and it was before they nerfed stats (100 for 1% for 400 for 1%), so low rank stones went further. Really, why shouldn't GWFs have the highest DPS? They're a 1-trick pony. No CC, no stealth, no buffs. DPS is really the only purpose they serve. They're dailies are not that great. I'm a tank class so I'd gain nothing by their nerf. See, I'm on your side. We frens again?
that is not personal, sir... but the history of this forum/balance desisions is compused by hyperboles that have become urban legends, creating artificially a demand for nerfs.
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tassedethe13Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 806Arc User
Whoa guys. I didn't intend to upset people. By beast I mean that unstoppable feat. It doesn't require AP or recovery and makes you tanky. I don't think GWFs should be nerfed. I agree with a post above that they make the current content more possible. Like I said before. Especially Tiamat. That run saves time. That said, I don't remember GWF's being incredibly awful in earlier mods. I did the Mod2/3 campaigns with a GWF no problem. I don't do NWO PvP so I can't speak to that. Mobs were easier back then and it was before they nerfed stats (100 for 1% for 400 for 1%), so low rank stones went further. Really, why shouldn't GWFs have the highest DPS? They're a 1-trick pony. No CC, no stealth, no buffs. DPS is really the only purpose they serve. They're dailies are not that great. I'm a tank class so I'd gain nothing by their nerf. See, I'm on your side. We frens again?
that is not personal, sir... but the history of this forum/balance desisions is compused by hyperboles that have become urban legends, creating artificially a demand for nerfs.
Remember the archery HR 45% damage nerf ? Then the shut down of the archery tree?
Just compare classes with Egal skill and egal stuff and maybe you will undestrand what I wrote.
And same role. I see CWs comparing their current state to strikers like GWF or SW. Both deal alot DPS and there are some SWs who deal even more than good PvE GWF.
Also, IL means nothing if you not take 2 true PvE builds from same class to compare. Feytouch is meh compared to vorp.
I would not agree with this one, you can compare a DPS class with another one. They are not meant to deal the same dps, but when one totally outdamage another by double or triple, it's too much on my opinion.
And as i said earlier, the main problem is Lostmauth set, which gives far too much damage for GWF because it depend on the weapon damages.
For the HR, the archery tree is totally broken and can't make any damage, the trapper which is control path make far more DPS that the archery... For the SW, if you want to make decent damage as other said, you have to wear the older lvl 60 set, so basically, new SW can't even be close to GWF.
I disagree with some of that. SW can also take huge advantage of the Lostmauth set with WB+HG, etc. SW's can beat GWF, it's possible believe it or not, however extremely rare. They just have to work really, really hard to do so. GWF is still the best DPS class in the game by far. However, a lot of this has to do with the fact that the GWF have to work a lot less for the same results that the SW has to work incredibly hard for, therefore many SW's just don't hit that peak but GWF's do. Basically SW hits dimishing returns on effort much faster than GWF's do. Both are still at the top of DPS generally speaking. There are also many people who play SW who have absolutely no idea what they are doing or how to use their powers/encounters, hence why the bugged super saiyan puppet got so popular. Just spawn the puppet and run through rotations while it gets buffed then does millions per hit... Damnation turns that diminishing returns asymptote into a straght linear gain since almost all damage from Damnation comes from the Puppet on Buff-roids and minimal effort on the player's part.
Edit: I'll be very clear that I don't really care if they get nerfed or not. It doesn't bother me if I'm in second place as long as I'm contributing and dungeons are quick then whatever. People are more worried about being in first place all the time than actually having some damn fun.
3.5k HB Temptation -- Dread Legion Xbox GT -- Mr Shabok My Guide
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
Cws are not a control class, its a hybrid mix class. It always has been, they dont have real control, in fact their most powerful control abilities, were nerfed over time, IF this was a real control class.. you would have to make SING .. well sing again and meatballs rain down from the skies. The sing nerf always got to me.. it WASNT even really a damage ability.. why the hard nerf on it , I never got that.
You could call it a control class back then when we started with a mob wide pick up and pool spell and a throw down a meatball on thier heads and prone them down spell.
Since they made both of those items, basically half as effective as they once did and now that mobs blow up in 2 seconds.. no reason at all to be pure controller really. In fact, I contend a class that pretty much requires a gear set up+ 2 bought pets.. isnt much of a pure controller class to start with.
Back in those times, cws were alot of times be the pullers.. starting with a meatball, then either sing or OF, depending on the mobs you had (like FH alot of them were immune to sing.. but you could still stun them with OF)
It was a much deeper experience playing back then though and real rewards in finishing the t2s.
If there is couple good gwf's in party fight is over by the time i have casted TT and HG (t1 content). In T2 dungeons sw will perform better but still no match to gwf.
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tassedethe13Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 806Arc User
Just compare classes with Egal skill and egal stuff and maybe you will undestrand what I wrote.
And same role. I see CWs comparing their current state to strikers like GWF or SW. Both deal alot DPS and there are some SWs who deal even more than good PvE GWF.
Also, IL means nothing if you not take 2 true PvE builds from same class to compare. Feytouch is meh compared to vorp.
I would not agree with this one, you can compare a DPS class with another one. They are not meant to deal the same dps, but when one totally outdamage another by double or triple, it's too much on my opinion.
And as i said earlier, the main problem is Lostmauth set, which gives far too much damage for GWF because it depend on the weapon damages.
For the HR, the archery tree is totally broken and can't make any damage, the trapper which is control path make far more DPS that the archery... For the SW, if you want to make decent damage as other said, you have to wear the older lvl 60 set, so basically, new SW can't even be close to GWF.
I disagree with some of that. SW can also take huge advantage of the Lostmauth set with WB+HG, etc. SW's can beat GWF, it's possible believe it or not, however extremely rare. They just have to work really, really hard to do so. GWF is still the best DPS class in the game by far. However, a lot of this has to do with the fact that the GWF have to work a lot less for the same results that the SW has to work incredibly hard for, therefore many SW's just don't hit that peak but GWF's do. Basically SW hits dimishing returns on effort much faster than GWF's do. Both are still at the top of DPS generally speaking. There are also many people who play SW who have absolutely no idea what they are doing or how to use their powers/encounters, hence why the bugged super saiyan puppet got so popular. Just spawn the puppet and run through rotations while it gets buffed then does millions per hit... Damnation turns that diminishing returns asymptote into a straght linear gain since almost all damage from Damnation comes from the Puppet on Buff-roids and minimal effort on the player's part.
Edit: I'll be very clear that I don't really care if they get nerfed or not. It doesn't bother me if I'm in second place as long as I'm contributing and dungeons are quick then whatever. People are more worried about being in first place all the time than actually having some damn fun.
My knowledge of SW is just what i see in game. I see some SW making amazing damage, it's true but they are so few. Can a new SW be close to GWF now ?
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
Whoa guys. I didn't intend to upset people. By beast I mean that unstoppable feat. It doesn't require AP or recovery and makes you tanky. I don't think GWFs should be nerfed. I agree with a post above that they make the current content more possible. Like I said before. Especially Tiamat. That run saves time. That said, I don't remember GWF's being incredibly awful in earlier mods. I did the Mod2/3 campaigns with a GWF no problem. I don't do NWO PvP so I can't speak to that. Mobs were easier back then and it was before they nerfed stats (100 for 1% for 400 for 1%), so low rank stones went further. Really, why shouldn't GWFs have the highest DPS? They're a 1-trick pony. No CC, no stealth, no buffs. DPS is really the only purpose they serve. They're dailies are not that great. I'm a tank class so I'd gain nothing by their nerf. See, I'm on your side. We frens again?
that is not personal, sir... but the history of this forum/balance desisions is compused by hyperboles that have become urban legends, creating artificially a demand for nerfs.
Remember the archery HR 45% damage nerf ? Then the shut down of the archery tree?
That 45% damage nerf never actually made it to live. In the end the devs avoided a massive shitstorm by nerfing Split Shot damage by just 25%.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
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tassedethe13Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 806Arc User
Whoa guys. I didn't intend to upset people. By beast I mean that unstoppable feat. It doesn't require AP or recovery and makes you tanky. I don't think GWFs should be nerfed. I agree with a post above that they make the current content more possible. Like I said before. Especially Tiamat. That run saves time. That said, I don't remember GWF's being incredibly awful in earlier mods. I did the Mod2/3 campaigns with a GWF no problem. I don't do NWO PvP so I can't speak to that. Mobs were easier back then and it was before they nerfed stats (100 for 1% for 400 for 1%), so low rank stones went further. Really, why shouldn't GWFs have the highest DPS? They're a 1-trick pony. No CC, no stealth, no buffs. DPS is really the only purpose they serve. They're dailies are not that great. I'm a tank class so I'd gain nothing by their nerf. See, I'm on your side. We frens again?
that is not personal, sir... but the history of this forum/balance desisions is compused by hyperboles that have become urban legends, creating artificially a demand for nerfs.
Remember the archery HR 45% damage nerf ? Then the shut down of the archery tree?
That 45% damage nerf never actually made it to live. In the end the devs avoided a massive shitstorm by nerfing Split Shot damage by just 25%.
I remember it was 45%, will try to find patch note
down the damage of gwf and... done, is a just a fetiche. you dont have a real demand for this. why? because if you do that, all that differents powers, trees and roles will still unecessary. that is logical: is better a game that you have a necessary controller (controlling)/defender/healer/striker, each one doing your job than just down the damage of one class and "who cares if you created a suport class and chose a suport tree"?
iam not imagining a hypotetical scenario to sustain a imbalanced game. that is what happening during m6, just need be optional now.
"Remember the archery HR 45% damage nerf ? Then the shut down of the archery tree?"
i remember trs in general because of pvp. be a pve player and have a main tr seens to me a nightmare.
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tassedethe13Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 806Arc User
Am I the only one thats getting a little tired of getting massively out DPS'd by GWF's on all my characters that I've spent alot of time, effort and money on? It's just a little frustrating when my 3.2K HR get's out DPS'd by a 2.4K GWF thats still using his Mulhorand Sword. I have a GWF as well and I enjoy playing him, but it just doesn't seem fair that the character I've spent countless hours on (my HR) is only "on par" with the GWF that I just got to 70 2 weeks ago.
This argument seems to be coming up time and again and not just for the GWF, but for any current top dps class.
What baffles me is that it comes up at all. Why is it important if one class does more damage than the other? For the group as a whole all it means is that the mobs and the bosses die faster and everyone gets to enjoy their loot earlier. Unless, of course, it is a mere ego issue. Does your personal self-worth really depend on how much damage your toon deals? Are there no other sources for your self-esteem?
MMO PvE is not a competition, but a cooperation. You are supposed to work together as a team, not compare e-peens over a trvial statistic. What's the healer in your group to think about his damage contribution? What's the tank in your group to think about his damage contribution?
The problem is not individual damage but content design and role management. The CW and the HR are supposed to be controllers by description, but what is there to control? The current state of content design leaves nothing to do besides damage, tanking and healing, so a large chunk of classes feels left out, trying to contribute with half of their skillset, as the other half is irrelevant to the content. That's not a problem of class balance, that's a problem of failed design.
Also, the role descriptions are taken from the 4e ruleset, but not implemented the same way. If you look at the actual performance, you'd get different descriptions:
The class descriptions are incongruent with the class performances
The content design does not allow for the full range of job roles (there is currently no need for control)
The problems don't end there, of course, as the stronghold boons will make content balancing a nightmare going forward and the stronghold equipment (most notably the weapons) will have to serve as a hard cap for item stats for future modules, not to make an investment in the millions of ADs irrelevant with the next mod.
It all went downhill after Module 3, maybe even starting with Module 3 and it just kept getting worse and worse, but Stronghold pretty much put the final nail in the coffin for future development. It's to be expected that future content will remain along the lines of Mod 8, which sadly will leave the role of controllers unfulfilled.
Still, it serves no point to call for a nerf on individual dps classes (It happened with CWs before the GWF, it happened with the HR on its release and it will most likely happen to other classes in the future). Stop comparing yourselves via "paingiver" and begin to see it as a cooperative effort. Contribute to the best of your abilities and keep in mind your many other ways to contribute, like buffs and herding.
The controller definition in this game means 2 things. Massive aoe damage and crowd control.
Beside, CWs are hybrids. They are either strikers or controllers. A thaumaturge or renegade CW is a striker with a bit of control. So the dps should be at the same point as any other striker build.
GWF damage is out of hand and everyone knows it but for some reason, the GWF don't want to admit it. Back in mod 6, CW were able to compete (but not beat) with GWF and we took a nerf of roughly 30% dps. So there's absolutely no reason why the GWF should be allowed to do twice as much damage as anyone else. Nerfs are needed and buffs are also needed on a number of classes.
Btw, GWF are about as much of a controller than a CW that's dps specced. They have very strong aoe and have multiple CC effects.
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romotheoneMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 729Arc User
edited December 2015
There was a guy with an awesome comment in Ironzerg's topic:
"Nice guide, although i´m a bit sad that the best CW is a GWF. As in "death is the best crowd control". And since a GWF dos around 4x the damage that a CW dos it goes to the point that a GWF is 4x as good at cc as a control wizard. "
The Only reason why this game is Brocken more and more, its because of such threads/QQ-threads overall Players calling for buff & nerf, and at the end "NO one is real satisfied!". Cuz a new Problem is Born which "People have to cry about"-
I tried to not comment on such threads even if it is my main class, because it has no end over and over the same thing.
I dont know why u all care about the dmg from other players on PvE ?, It's probably How "PvE-players do Pvp" just by comparing dmg to each other löl,
Currently i don't care anymore, you can nerf or buff what you want!
<::::::[]==0 GwF 0==[]::::::> ● Still waiting for the promised Improvement ●
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romotheoneMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 729Arc User
@xgrandz02 saying that the GWF is strong and not understanding why other people care, then you have a signature asking for "GWF improvements" kek...
@xgrandz02 saying that the GWF is strong and not understanding why other people care, then you have a signature asking for "GWF improvements" kek...
haha, it's and old signature more a "Joke than a request", was on the earlydays after a nerf to GWF and gentlemencrush brought/told some improvements which never hasn't been implemented. and now he's gone yay..
<::::::[]==0 GwF 0==[]::::::> ● Still waiting for the promised Improvement ●
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romotheoneMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 729Arc User
What baffles me is that it comes up at all. Why is it important if one class does more damage than the other?
I am baffled by people that try to explain all these problems aways by claiming it does not matter - of course it matters ! When you invest month or years of time and money and then find out that was all a waste and the only thing that matters is what class you picked at the start, then its a VERY big deal.
Its also not just dps that matters. When the lowest temp lock could out heal any cleric simply because of one single feat, that was unacceptable. When the lowest paladin can suddenly do more than a maxed out guardian, that is unacceptable
How much CC a CW brings? Is CW CC worth only 30% DPS? Expecially if, most likely, in the future with fixed OPs, CC will be needed. If, even now, you run without an OP, CC is golden. I wouldn't rate it equal to a 30% DPS difference.
So i'd take a look at how much CC a CW brings, and how valuable it is with proper PvE content (3k dungeons and "fixed" OPs).
Ya, maybe not... I would say around 20%, as 30% is a lot more.
I did some testing along with a friend of min, who plays a GWF, I was on a CW. Using ATC we did some target dummy dps in the guildhall.
One thing stands out, when looking at the statistics of the test - The degree of stacking the GWF has. Let me try to explain, we are looking at Lostmouth's Vengeance, A proc from the lostmouth set, triggering on critical hits. I am picking the lostmouth proc because it is an attack that both the CW and the GWF has in this case. The GWF and the CW are both 2.7kilevel.
The CW - Starts out doing around 2400 damage pr. proc and when all buffs/debuffs from the CW are stacked, ending at around 6800damage. and increase of around 280%
The GWF - Starts at around 3500 damage pr. proc and when all buffs/debuffs from the GWF are stacked, ending at around 45000damage. An increase of around 1200%.
On a later Dragon Flight guild encounter, out of 9 players, we had just one GWF, combatlog shows the GWF having an average of 35000dps the rest of the DPS classes (2CW, 1SW, 2TS and on HR) all had around 10000dps. On another dragon flight. with just 7 players the one GWF (all the same guy) had done 39million damage out of a total of 80million. So one guy doing as much damage as 6 other players.
Now I know that all of you that main a GWF dos not want to see a nerf to the class. But you must admit that the class is a bit over the top, with 2.7ilevel beeing enough to solo 10+ player HEs in Dwarven vally. With a 4k Ilevel GWF soloing a full T2 dungeon, ect.
I for one would like to see all the "dps" classes (HR, CW, TR, SW and GWF) be with in 20% or maybe 30% dps of each other, giving same gear and player skill. With the classes that offer other things, like slight CC or consistent group buffs to be on the lower part of the bracket. But honest to my knowledge all the classes offer something other then DPS, the GWF fx, gives aoe group combat advantage.
As such I would like the lacking dps classes to get a buff and the leading dps class to get a nerf, bringing the classes closer. At this point a TR or a CW or whatever, could get a 100% increase in dps and still be far behind an equal ilevel GWF.
Comments
Xbox GT -- Mr Shabok
My Guide
By beast I mean that unstoppable feat. It doesn't require AP or recovery and makes you tanky.
I don't think GWFs should be nerfed. I agree with a post above that they make the current content more possible. Like I said before.
Especially Tiamat. That run saves time.
That said, I don't remember GWF's being incredibly awful in earlier mods. I did the Mod2/3 campaigns with a GWF no problem. I don't do NWO PvP so I can't speak to that. Mobs were easier back then and it was before they nerfed stats (100 for 1% for 400 for 1%), so low rank stones went further.
Really, why shouldn't GWFs have the highest DPS? They're a 1-trick pony. No CC, no stealth, no buffs. DPS is really the only purpose they serve. They're dailies are not that great.
I'm a tank class so I'd gain nothing by their nerf. See, I'm on your side. We frens again?
Expecially if, most likely, in the future with fixed OPs, CC will be needed.
If, even now, you run without an OP, CC is golden. I wouldn't rate it equal to a 30% DPS difference.
So i'd take a look at how much CC a CW brings, and how valuable it is with proper PvE content (3k dungeons and "fixed" OPs).
I knew i would forgot someone XD Thanks
What's the importance of CC on an uncontrolable boss which is the only difficulty in any of the content brought to us?
Also, pando you seem to imply mof CWs have less control than storm CWs, well, they have exactly the same controlling powers, even a bit more with their daily.
And to the CW is only a controller argument, well I think devs stated differently when they gave is a power called DISINTEGRATE.
So I'd take a look at how much CC a CW brings and how valuable it when GWFs and SWs will no longer destroy everything in seconds.
And again I don't want a huge nerf to their DPS, just a slight tone down so they don't deal 2-3x damage from other classes.
Edit: I'll be very clear that I don't really care if they get nerfed or not. It doesn't bother me if I'm in second place as long as I'm contributing and dungeons are quick then whatever. People are more worried about being in first place all the time than actually having some damn fun.
Xbox GT -- Mr Shabok
My Guide
You could call it a control class back then when we started with a mob wide pick up and pool spell and a throw down a meatball on thier heads and prone them down spell.
Since they made both of those items, basically half as effective as they once did and now that mobs blow up in 2 seconds.. no reason at all to be pure controller really. In fact, I contend a class that pretty much requires a gear set up+ 2 bought pets.. isnt much of a pure controller class to start with.
Back in those times, cws were alot of times be the pullers.. starting with a meatball, then either sing or OF, depending on the mobs you had (like FH alot of them were immune to sing.. but you could still stun them with OF)
It was a much deeper experience playing back then though and real rewards in finishing the t2s.
Oh well.. times change.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
2) nerf feytouch
3) nerf stacking temp HP
4) remove the buff to weapon damage they got recently.
and then lets see.
their damage by the way its ridicolous for the standart dpsers.
balanced or not , its easier to change one class damage than rebalancing everyone around it.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
down the damage of gwf and... done, is a just a fetiche. you dont have a real demand for this. why? because if you do that, all that differents powers, trees and roles will still unecessary. that is logical: is better a game that you have a necessary controller (controlling)/defender/healer/striker, each one doing your job than just down the damage of one class and "who cares if you created a suport class and chose a suport tree"?
iam not imagining a hypotetical scenario to sustain a imbalanced game. that is what happening during m6, just need be optional now.
"Remember the archery HR 45% damage nerf ? Then the shut down of the archery tree?"
i remember trs in general because of pvp. be a pve player and have a main tr seens to me a nightmare.
English is not the native language of everybody here. You shouldn't be mocking someone who tries to speak another language.
@lirithiel
You were right 25% on live: http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/5003683-release-notes:-05/13/14
45% on preview http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/534332/curse-of-icewind-dale-preview-patch-notes-nw-15-20140314a-5/p1
What baffles me is that it comes up at all. Why is it important if one class does more damage than the other? For the group as a whole all it means is that the mobs and the bosses die faster and everyone gets to enjoy their loot earlier. Unless, of course, it is a mere ego issue. Does your personal self-worth really depend on how much damage your toon deals? Are there no other sources for your self-esteem?
MMO PvE is not a competition, but a cooperation. You are supposed to work together as a team, not compare e-peens over a trvial statistic. What's the healer in your group to think about his damage contribution? What's the tank in your group to think about his damage contribution?
The problem is not individual damage but content design and role management. The CW and the HR are supposed to be controllers by description, but what is there to control? The current state of content design leaves nothing to do besides damage, tanking and healing, so a large chunk of classes feels left out, trying to contribute with half of their skillset, as the other half is irrelevant to the content. That's not a problem of class balance, that's a problem of failed design.
Also, the role descriptions are taken from the 4e ruleset, but not implemented the same way. If you look at the actual performance, you'd get different descriptions:
CW: Controller
DC: Leader (Healer/Buffer)
GWF: Bruiser
GF: Leader/Bruiser
HR: Leader/Controller
OPP: Tank
OPD: Leader
SW: Striker
TR: Harrasser
So the problem is at its simplest two-fold:
- The class descriptions are incongruent with the class performances
- The content design does not allow for the full range of job roles (there is currently no need for control)
The problems don't end there, of course, as the stronghold boons will make content balancing a nightmare going forward and the stronghold equipment (most notably the weapons) will have to serve as a hard cap for item stats for future modules, not to make an investment in the millions of ADs irrelevant with the next mod.It all went downhill after Module 3, maybe even starting with Module 3 and it just kept getting worse and worse, but Stronghold pretty much put the final nail in the coffin for future development. It's to be expected that future content will remain along the lines of Mod 8, which sadly will leave the role of controllers unfulfilled.
Still, it serves no point to call for a nerf on individual dps classes (It happened with CWs before the GWF, it happened with the HR on its release and it will most likely happen to other classes in the future). Stop comparing yourselves via "paingiver" and begin to see it as a cooperative effort. Contribute to the best of your abilities and keep in mind your many other ways to contribute, like buffs and herding.
Let's play together, not against each other.
Massive aoe damage and crowd control.
Beside, CWs are hybrids. They are either strikers or controllers. A thaumaturge or renegade CW is a striker with a bit of control. So the dps should be at the same point as any other striker build.
GWF damage is out of hand and everyone knows it but for some reason, the GWF don't want to admit it. Back in mod 6, CW were able to compete (but not beat) with GWF and we took a nerf of roughly 30% dps. So there's absolutely no reason why the GWF should be allowed to do twice as much damage as anyone else. Nerfs are needed and buffs are also needed on a number of classes.
Btw, GWF are about as much of a controller than a CW that's dps specced. They have very strong aoe and have multiple CC effects.
"Nice guide, although i´m a bit sad that the best CW is a GWF. As in "death is the best crowd control". And since a GWF dos around 4x the damage that a CW dos it goes to the point that a GWF is 4x as good at cc as a control wizard. "
its because of such threads/QQ-threads overall Players calling for buff & nerf,
and at the end "NO one is real satisfied!".
Cuz a new Problem is Born which "People have to cry about"-
I tried to not comment on such threads even if it is my main class,
because it has no end over and over the same thing.
I dont know why u all care about the dmg from other players on PvE ?,
It's probably How "PvE-players do Pvp" just by comparing dmg to each other löl,
Currently i don't care anymore, you can nerf or buff what you want!
it's and old signature more a "Joke than a request",
was on the earlydays after a nerf to GWF and gentlemencrush brought/told
some improvements which never hasn't been implemented.
and now he's gone yay..
How much interest do you expect from damagedealer chars (non-gws of course) for the new damage increasing companion "Siege Master"?
Why should anyone increase his/her damage for at most 4%, if the own damage is only a fraction of a gwfs (at most 50%).
Its also not just dps that matters. When the lowest temp lock could out heal any cleric simply because of one single feat, that was unacceptable. When the lowest paladin can suddenly do more than a maxed out guardian, that is unacceptable
I did some testing along with a friend of min, who plays a GWF, I was on a CW. Using ATC we did some target dummy dps in the guildhall.
One thing stands out, when looking at the statistics of the test - The degree of stacking the GWF has. Let me try to explain, we are looking at Lostmouth's Vengeance, A proc from the lostmouth set, triggering on critical hits. I am picking the lostmouth proc because it is an attack that both the CW and the GWF has in this case. The GWF and the CW are both 2.7kilevel.
The CW - Starts out doing around 2400 damage pr. proc and when all buffs/debuffs from the CW are stacked, ending at around 6800damage. and increase of around 280%
The GWF - Starts at around 3500 damage pr. proc and when all buffs/debuffs from the GWF are stacked, ending at around 45000damage. An increase of around 1200%.
On a later Dragon Flight guild encounter, out of 9 players, we had just one GWF, combatlog shows the GWF having an average of 35000dps the rest of the DPS classes (2CW, 1SW, 2TS and on HR) all had around 10000dps. On another dragon flight. with just 7 players the one GWF (all the same guy) had done 39million damage out of a total of 80million. So one guy doing as much damage as 6 other players.
Now I know that all of you that main a GWF dos not want to see a nerf to the class. But you must admit that the class is a bit over the top, with 2.7ilevel beeing enough to solo 10+ player HEs in Dwarven vally. With a 4k Ilevel GWF soloing a full T2 dungeon, ect.
I for one would like to see all the "dps" classes (HR, CW, TR, SW and GWF) be with in 20% or maybe 30% dps of each other, giving same gear and player skill. With the classes that offer other things, like slight CC or consistent group buffs to be on the lower part of the bracket. But honest to my knowledge all the classes offer something other then DPS, the GWF fx, gives aoe group combat advantage.
As such I would like the lacking dps classes to get a buff and the leading dps class to get a nerf, bringing the classes closer. At this point a TR or a CW or whatever, could get a 100% increase in dps and still be far behind an equal ilevel GWF.
edit: removing self fluffing.