But honestly I am not sure i follow your logic, I call for balance in every post, and point out that the other dps classes are behind in dps and so forth. "Compansating the "fix""? What are you talking about? If it is a fix then why would there need to be compensation or are you talking about TRs and HRs getting some kind of refund?
Quick explanation because you guys really have NO IDEA about how a balance feedback is done.
Example:
GWF
Problem: fully stacked damage too high on Destroyer path. DPS only class. Class analysis: base DPS much lower than other classes, insufficient. Survivability linked to damage buff stacks (unstoppable temp HP scaling with damage bonus, Lifesteal which must be stronger for a melee class that fights face to face with mobs and no dodge). Also, just to repeat: melee class that fights in melee range (more red areas) with no dodge (always takes a certain amount of damage). Base defense and tools insufficient to allow survivability in T2 without heavy lifesteal (not a tank, not even with unstoppable). Also: eLoL set is overperforming and scales with weapon damage. GWF have higher weapon damage of all classes, buffing eLoL set even more and getting further ahead. Normalizing the set would already be a nerf to GWF DPS, compared to other classes. Solution: Fix eLoL set. decrease the amount of damage buffs aka lower fully buffed damage coming from destroyer feats/ path, increase base damage by a certain degree to normalize DPS, improve GWF shift movement and unstoppable a bit to compensate the loss of survivability (less temp HP and less Lifesteal). Numbers up to the Devs who got the math to do the calculations.
HR stormwarden archery, TR executioner, SW fury:
Primary strikers (like GWF) and paths that can compare with destroyer. Their DPS output must be buffed to compare with Destroyer's.
CW is NOT primary DPS. If CC is useless, rework dungeons/ enemies and CC mechanics to make them count. Asking to nerf DPS of pure DPS classes because your primary role is not useful in current PvE environment is nonsense. So ask for a buff to your primary role instead of asking for a nerf to the primary role of another class.
But you guys have no clue about what balance means, and in fact you just throw in a "nerf GWF damage!!!" with no logic behind, or real knowledge about how things work and what balance means.
Another example:
HR: players asking for trappers permaroot nerf. Period. Without even considering how HRs survivability is without that permaroot mechanic (too low). Correct way to ask for balance: normalize trappers amount of CC, while buffing their survivability tools (be it dodges, deflect, self heal, exc...)
Could go on more but you get the idea. You guys ask for nerfs. What i described above, instead, is a balance discussion. Good players discuss balance. Bad players and babies create pointless nerf threads screaming for a "huge nerf" (usually) of a single aspect of another class, that annoys them, while knowing nothing about the class they talk about and knowing nothing of the consequences of the nerfs they advocate for.
Sorry if i sound rude but we have 7 pages and only few posts might remotely contribute to real balance of the class. And some are plain and simple hate posts similar to those of a "certain" star-trek user of these forums.
In your case: you think "hey, i ask for a DPS nerf on GWFs (class wide, not just destroyers), other classes deal less DPS so...BALANCE!!!" Wrong. Read above. Your simplicistic DPS nerf have a chain reaction on multiple mechanics of the class. It looks like balance to you because you have no clue about how the class works. Or a very superficial idea of it.
Second, nice... Really nice, I think my point has been proven beyond a doubt. Or is there a GWF player (i am also one, at that) that can make a good case as to why a GWF should be 300% - 400% (revised it, true it isent always 400% just close to) above the other dps classes when it comes to dps.
Show me the ACT log when 2 equal geared players run etos. Take a thauma CW and a GWF and show me the ACT. I wanna see the 400% more dps. And mabye you can run with Thorina ( best TR i know) and he blows the GWF to the ground in dps. Will you say "Nerf TR" after that run?
And please, no more "But another class was overpowerd a year ago, now it is the GWF's turn to be overpowerd!!". If another class was a year ago, where the GWF is today, and got nerffed, that just proves the point about the GWF is overpowerd.
The "other "class 1 year ago was not overpowered. They got a skill that was way to strong and devs fixed that skill. No CW was really angry about singu fix. And if you play a CW you know which skill they fixed. But you sir, you want a complete nerf about a complete class. You dont even know what a GWF makes so strong. Its only one build and this build is not cheap to get. And if you know so much and why the GWF is so overpowered: Which skill is excactly overpowered? Which skill does a GWF should get if they nerf this class?
0
tassedethe13Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 806Arc User
Nerf Lostmauth set ( Or the GWF weapon damage ) Up ( as it was said 2 mods before ) the SW Rework the Archery HR path
And the classes will be more balanced in term of damage.
For the OP, just add a longer cooldown to the buble and voila.
Instead of this we gonna have soon a new mount equivalent to a second lostmauth, brace yourselves, because GWF will do even more damage.
The new mount only affects encounters so unless you're stacking tons of recovery it'll probably benefit HR/CW more.
I don't agree, it's based on weapon damage, and by far, the highest damage is on GWF weapon. HR got half this damage because they got 2 weapons.
I can understand that HR got 6 encounters spells ( even if Fox shift doesn't make damage), and GWF got 3 encounters. So at least the gape between HR and GWF will remain the same (because of the weapon damage), but it will increase the gape between TR/SW/CW and GWF.
But honestly I am not sure i follow your logic, I call for balance in every post, and point out that the other dps classes are behind in dps and so forth. "Compansating the "fix""? What are you talking about? If it is a fix then why would there need to be compensation or are you talking about TRs and HRs getting some kind of refund?
Quick explanation because you guys really have NO IDEA about how a balance feedback is done.
Example:
GWF
Problem: fully stacked damage too high on Destroyer path. DPS only class. Class analysis: base DPS much lower than other classes, insufficient. Survivability linked to damage buff stacks (unstoppable temp HP scaling with damage bonus, Lifesteal which must be stronger for a melee class that fights face to face with mobs and no dodge). Also, just to repeat: melee class that fights in melee range (more red areas) with no dodge (always takes a certain amount of damage). Base defense and tools insufficient to allow survivability in T2 without heavy lifesteal (not a tank, not even with unstoppable). Also: eLoL set is overperforming and scales with weapon damage. GWF have higher weapon damage of all classes, buffing eLoL set even more and getting further ahead. Normalizing the set would already be a nerf to GWF DPS, compared to other classes. Solution: Fix eLoL set. decrease the amount of damage buffs aka lower fully buffed damage coming from destroyer feats/ path, increase base damage by a certain degree to normalize DPS, improve GWF shift movement and unstoppable a bit to compensate the loss of survivability (less temp HP and less Lifesteal). Numbers up to the Devs who got the math to do the calculations.
HR stormwarden archery, TR executioner, SW fury:
Primary strikers (like GWF) and paths that can compare with destroyer. Their DPS output must be buffed to compare with Destroyer's.
CW is NOT primary DPS. If CC is useless, rework dungeons/ enemies and CC mechanics to make them count. Asking to nerf DPS of pure DPS classes because your primary role is not useful in current PvE environment is nonsense. So ask for a buff to your primary role instead of asking for a nerf to the primary role of another class.
But you guys have no clue about what balance means, and in fact you just throw in a "nerf GWF damage!!!" with no logic behind, or real knowledge about how things work and what balance means.
Another example:
HR: players asking for trappers permaroot nerf. Period. Without even considering how HRs survivability is without that permaroot mechanic (too low). Correct way to ask for balance: normalize trappers amount of CC, while buffing their survivability tools (be it dodges, deflect, self heal, exc...)
Could go on more but you get the idea. You guys ask for nerfs. What i described above, instead, is a balance discussion. Good players discuss balance. Bad players and babies create pointless nerf threads screaming for a "huge nerf" (usually) of a single aspect of another class, that annoys them, while knowing nothing about the class they talk about and knowing nothing of the consequences of the nerfs they advocate for.
Sorry if i sound rude but we have 7 pages and only few posts might remotely contribute to real balance of the class. And some are plain and simple hate posts similar to those of a "certain" star-trek user of these forums.
In your case: you think "hey, i ask for a DPS nerf on GWFs (class wide, not just destroyers), other classes deal less DPS so...BALANCE!!!" Wrong. Read above. Your simplicistic DPS nerf have a chain reaction on multiple mechanics of the class. It looks like balance to you because you have no clue about how the class works. Or a very superficial idea of it.
We had a bad start when i entered the forum, but your posts are better than i thought when i started posting here. So if i bother you as a Forumsnewbie ^^, forgive me. Your absolutely right and i hope the devs dont listen to this dumb "NERF GWFs". Yes its true, we need a balancing in NW. But balancing is discuss wot can we do better at the classes and not "NERF THEM!". That makes no sense at all. And im getting bored when i read so many posts about a nerf and no one will explain how a nerf is balancing...
CW is NOT primary DPS. If CC is useless, rework dungeons/ enemies and CC mechanics to make them count. Asking to nerf DPS of pure DPS classes because your primary role is not useful in current PvE environment is nonsense. So ask for a buff to your primary role instead of asking for a nerf to the primary role of another class.
This is never happening and you know it. It's so unrealistic to expect this that it's a strawman.
HR: players asking for trappers permaroot nerf. Period. Without even considering how HRs survivability is without that permaroot mechanic (too low). Correct way to ask for balance: normalize trappers amount of CC, while buffing their survivability tools (be it dodges, deflect, self heal, exc...)
PvP players complain about permaroot. The solution is really to just ignore PvP until they can actually fix PvP instead of "fixing" one thing for PvP in a way that breaks it for PvE. PvP has fundamental problems that can't be addressed by small fixes so every time they "fix" something like this it doesn't make much of a difference.
No Mmo has this measure of difference between dps classes. It can be 10-20% difference between dps classes! If FOTM players thinks this is normal. Well they should think again!
stock and stone I can master, but there's a Wizard to manage here!
8 pages and nothing constructive. I will start the productivity, I guess. The buff of hidden daggers needs to be lowered, and the stacking of Sure Strike needs to be fixed, it builds up into the millions of damage. In return, we need a real dodge with an immunity frame. The immunity frame from Unstoppable needs to be replaced with damage resistance. We lost our damage resistance in an uber-nerf. LM set needs to not be 100 percent crit, and needs to ignore buffs. Negation needs a rework, Trans Feytouched needs a cooldown. All pre-mod 7 set bonuses need to be removed, Lashing Blade needs a tone-down. Shocking Execution needs to respect Tenacity and only work when the enemy is below half-health. HR roots need to be shortened in PVP....
i have a better one... stop to ask for nerfs to a class "x" if 2 others strikers will be reworked and/or buffed in the next module.
i played this game enough to know that 40% of daggers will be weak soon. and no idea wtf is a sure strike stacking.
The problem of GWF is that you dont need other class... you just need Tactic GF and Rightous DC, GWF do x5 damage than second DPS in team, this mean we need only 3 people for epic dungeons, other class dont have even time to hit something, if you go in Demogorgon GWF do 3-4 time damage of other class, this is not right, he have more power than other class, more % crit chance, more self buff than other, controll immunity, 200k+ HP, and every time someone dodge, GWF does not do that and deal millions of damage. It's OK for GWF to be first in DPS but with 10-20% more damage than second, not 200%+.
0
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
the problem with cryptic "adjustments" has been historically making feats/skills/powers/builds 100% useless.
instead of a slight tone down, they go juggernaut and nuke it.
Going from a useful skill to a non barred one overnight and it maybe never will be back. In fact MOST of the complaining being does is by your POOR class being nuked in this same manner!
This is why I never personally ask for adjustments downward anymore. Unless its to show that something is vastly under-performing and ask for a adjustment to a skill to be useful again.
In fact every EVERY class has those. Even the gwf.. most of its encounters are actually quite lousy outside of 4-5 of them. But they have no more then all of the classes. (poor sw has a ton of NON use encounters.. ) HRs have alot of slighly redundant ones as well.. and dont get me started on some of the DC ones (both of the new ones are no longer used in game.. by any dc.. outside of limited pvp context but its still highly limited usage)
Even the CWs who probably have the BEST encounter distribution in the game (ablity to swap in and out with multiple approaches to mobs/bosses) still have a few that are just awful. They just have a ton less then other classes.
The problem is they dont need half the skills they released and make some of them either highly ineffective for anything or totally redundant (ie subpar) to a same existing skill.
This accusation of overpowered has been around since the start and has seen some mighty fun builds totally destroyed due to this constant whining about other classes.
It never will stop and once the poor GWF gets a tone down.. it will be unto the SW damanatian issue and then piercing will rear its head again or the OP or whatever. THIS doesn't mean I dont believe some of the skills need adjustment. BUT BACK to MY point, is CRYPTIC has historically not made small adjustments, but nuked WAY too much out of classes, making them subpar over and over and over.
Again, WHICH is why I stopped playing this game afterwhile.
Neverwinter just is a big circle.. your class/build or whatever will most likely be tops at some point.
Dont worry about it so much.
GWFs are great, so isnt every other class.
I can run all content through with anything.. including all dps non GWF groups.
In fact the CW has a ton of DPS.. its just eaten alive most of the time with quicker classes that can destroy trash mobs before you can get there (tr/gwf) but who cares.. why do you care really?
It wont matter in the end.
Do you really think a run is ALL that much faster with GWFS? mobs only have so many hitpoints!
Nerf Lostmauth set ( Or the GWF weapon damage ) Up ( as it was said 2 mods before ) the SW Rework the Archery HR path
And the classes will be more balanced in term of damage.
For the OP, just add a longer cooldown to the buble and voila.
Instead of this we gonna have soon a new mount equivalent to a second lostmauth, brace yourselves, because GWF will do even more damage.
The new mount only affects encounters so unless you're stacking tons of recovery it'll probably benefit HR/CW more.
I don't agree, it's based on weapon damage, and by far, the highest damage is on GWF weapon. HR got half this damage because they got 2 weapons.
I can understand that HR got 6 encounters spells ( even if Fox shift doesn't make damage), and GWF got 3 encounters. So at least the gape between HR and GWF will remain the same (because of the weapon damage), but it will increase the gape between TR/SW/CW and GWF.
CW with spell twisting pops encounters fast enough that it'll make a difference.
Lets nerf the GWF to the ground again so the crying CWs can run 5 man CW party again and just nuke everything like good ol days.
0
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
Thanks to those who tried to contribute to this thread, but the discussion here has gone way past the point of being productive, as most "nerf this!" threads tend to.
Comments
Example:
GWF
Problem: fully stacked damage too high on Destroyer path. DPS only class.
Class analysis: base DPS much lower than other classes, insufficient. Survivability linked to damage buff stacks (unstoppable temp HP scaling with damage bonus, Lifesteal which must be stronger for a melee class that fights face to face with mobs and no dodge). Also, just to repeat: melee class that fights in melee range (more red areas) with no dodge (always takes a certain amount of damage). Base defense and tools insufficient to allow survivability in T2 without heavy lifesteal (not a tank, not even with unstoppable). Also: eLoL set is overperforming and scales with weapon damage. GWF have higher weapon damage of all classes, buffing eLoL set even more and getting further ahead. Normalizing the set would already be a nerf to GWF DPS, compared to other classes.
Solution: Fix eLoL set. decrease the amount of damage buffs aka lower fully buffed damage coming from destroyer feats/ path, increase base damage by a certain degree to normalize DPS, improve GWF shift movement and unstoppable a bit to compensate the loss of survivability (less temp HP and less Lifesteal). Numbers up to the Devs who got the math to do the calculations.
HR stormwarden archery, TR executioner, SW fury:
Primary strikers (like GWF) and paths that can compare with destroyer. Their DPS output must be buffed to compare with Destroyer's.
CW is NOT primary DPS.
If CC is useless, rework dungeons/ enemies and CC mechanics to make them count.
Asking to nerf DPS of pure DPS classes because your primary role is not useful in current PvE environment is nonsense.
So ask for a buff to your primary role instead of asking for a nerf to the primary role of another class.
But you guys have no clue about what balance means, and in fact you just throw in a "nerf GWF damage!!!" with no logic behind, or real knowledge about how things work and what balance means.
Another example:
HR: players asking for trappers permaroot nerf. Period.
Without even considering how HRs survivability is without that permaroot mechanic (too low).
Correct way to ask for balance: normalize trappers amount of CC, while buffing their survivability tools (be it dodges, deflect, self heal, exc...)
Could go on more but you get the idea. You guys ask for nerfs.
What i described above, instead, is a balance discussion.
Good players discuss balance.
Bad players and babies create pointless nerf threads screaming for a "huge nerf" (usually) of a single aspect of another class, that annoys them, while knowing nothing about the class they talk about and knowing nothing of the consequences of the nerfs they advocate for.
Sorry if i sound rude but we have 7 pages and only few posts might remotely contribute to real balance of the class.
And some are plain and simple hate posts similar to those of a "certain" star-trek user of these forums.
In your case: you think "hey, i ask for a DPS nerf on GWFs (class wide, not just destroyers), other classes deal less DPS so...BALANCE!!!" Wrong. Read above. Your simplicistic DPS nerf have a chain reaction on multiple mechanics of the class. It looks like balance to you because you have no clue about how the class works. Or a very superficial idea of it.
Which skill is excactly overpowered? Which skill does a GWF should get if they nerf this class?
I can understand that HR got 6 encounters spells ( even if Fox shift doesn't make damage), and GWF got 3 encounters. So at least the gape between HR and GWF will remain the same (because of the weapon damage), but it will increase the gape between TR/SW/CW and GWF.
If FOTM players thinks this is normal.
Well they should think again!
Wise guy...
i played this game enough to know that 40% of daggers will be weak soon. and no idea wtf is a sure strike stacking.
instead of a slight tone down, they go juggernaut and nuke it.
Going from a useful skill to a non barred one overnight and it maybe never will be back. In fact MOST of the complaining being does is by your POOR class being nuked in this same manner!
This is why I never personally ask for adjustments downward anymore. Unless its to show that something is vastly under-performing and ask for a adjustment to a skill to be useful again.
In fact every EVERY class has those. Even the gwf.. most of its encounters are actually quite lousy outside of 4-5 of them. But they have no more then all of the classes. (poor sw has a ton of NON use encounters.. ) HRs have alot of slighly redundant ones as well.. and dont get me started on some of the DC ones (both of the new ones are no longer used in game.. by any dc.. outside of limited pvp context but its still highly limited usage)
Even the CWs who probably have the BEST encounter distribution in the game (ablity to swap in and out with multiple approaches to mobs/bosses) still have a few that are just awful. They just have a ton less then other classes.
The problem is they dont need half the skills they released and make some of them either highly ineffective for anything or totally redundant (ie subpar) to a same existing skill.
This accusation of overpowered has been around since the start and has seen some mighty fun builds totally destroyed due to this constant whining about other classes.
It never will stop and once the poor GWF gets a tone down.. it will be unto the SW damanatian issue and then piercing will rear its head again or the OP or whatever. THIS doesn't mean I dont believe some of the skills need adjustment. BUT BACK to MY point, is CRYPTIC has historically not made small adjustments, but nuked WAY too much out of classes, making them subpar over and over and over.
Again, WHICH is why I stopped playing this game afterwhile.
Neverwinter just is a big circle.. your class/build or whatever will most likely be tops at some point.
Dont worry about it so much.
GWFs are great, so isnt every other class.
I can run all content through with anything.. including all dps non GWF groups.
In fact the CW has a ton of DPS.. its just eaten alive most of the time with quicker classes that can destroy trash mobs before you can get there (tr/gwf) but who cares.. why do you care really?
It wont matter in the end.
Do you really think a run is ALL that much faster with GWFS? mobs only have so many hitpoints!
we have 3 fakes at least, including the creator of topic.
mods? trolling rules??