What baffles me is that it comes up at all. Why is it important if one class does more damage than the other?
I am baffled by people that try to explain all these problems aways by claiming it does not matter - of course it matters ! When you invest month or years of time and money and then find out that was all a waste and the only thing that matters is what class you picked at the start, then its a VERY big deal.
Its also not just dps that matters. When the lowest temp lock could out heal any cleric simply because of one single feat, that was unacceptable. When the lowest paladin can suddenly do more than a maxed out guardian, that is unacceptable
How much CC a CW brings? Is CW CC worth only 30% DPS? Expecially if, most likely, in the future with fixed OPs, CC will be needed. If, even now, you run without an OP, CC is golden. I wouldn't rate it equal to a 30% DPS difference.
So i'd take a look at how much CC a CW brings, and how valuable it is with proper PvE content (3k dungeons and "fixed" OPs).
Ya, maybe not... I would say around 20%, as 30% is a lot more.
I did some testing along with a friend of min, who plays a GWF, I was on a CW. Using ATC we did some target dummy dps in the guildhall.
One thing stands out, when looking at the statistics of the test - The degree of stacking the GWF has. Let me try to explain, we are looking at Lostmouth's Vengeance, A proc from the lostmouth set, triggering on critical hits. I am picking the lostmouth proc because it is an attack that both the CW and the GWF has in this case. The GWF and the CW are both 2.7kilevel.
The CW - Starts out doing around 2400 damage pr. proc and when all buffs/debuffs from the CW are stacked, ending at around 6800damage. and increase of around 280%
The GWF - Starts at around 3500 damage pr. proc and when all buffs/debuffs from the GWF are stacked, ending at around 45000damage. An increase of around 1200%.
On a later Dragon Flight guild encounter, out of 9 players, we had just one GWF, combatlog shows the GWF having an average of 35000dps the rest of the DPS classes (2CW, 1SW, 2TS and on HR) all had around 10000dps. On another dragon flight. with just 7 players the one GWF (all the same guy) had done 39million damage out of a total of 80million. So one guy doing as much damage as 6 other players.
Now I know that all of you that main a GWF dos not want to see a nerf to the class. But you must admit that the class is a bit over the top, with 2.7ilevel beeing enough to solo 10+ player HEs in Dwarven vally. With a 4k Ilevel GWF soloing a full T2 dungeon, ect.
I for one would like to see all the "dps" classes (HR, CW, TR, SW and GWF) be with in 20% or maybe 30% dps of each other, giving same gear and player skill. With the classes that offer other things, like slight CC or consistent group buffs to be on the lower part of the bracket. But honest to my knowledge all the classes offer something other then DPS, the GWF fx, gives aoe group combat advantage.
As such I would like the lacking dps classes to get a buff and the leading dps class to get a nerf, bringing the classes closer. At this point a TR or a CW or whatever, could get a 100% increase in dps and still be far behind an equal ilevel GWF.
edit: removing self fluffing.
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clericalistMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 595Arc User
GREAT WEAPON fighter should be top tier dps! Its what they do! They Fight! Warrior elite!
No it should not. The standard gaming trope is that the weakest in terms of defense should be the highest dps, and I agree with that idea. The GWF is not the weakest it has many strong tanky abilities. I think that the highest dps should come out of the TR, SW and HR group, the SW and HR can strike from a distance so the TR should be the highest dps, but by highest I mean something like 5-10% higher on average than the next highest, not the current absurd numbers where a GWF can sometimes get more than everyone else combined.
Besides all that however, there is an even bigger problem, Cryptic has been completely silent on the awful Paladin class, I assume this means they are happy with what they produced and will not fix it. Since every class is now immortal it means healing, cc , tanking is irrelevant (more so than even before mod 6), they should give every class the same dps. And I am being serious here, make even the guardian and cleric have the same dps as the tradional striker classes.
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isaintify1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 414Arc User
Most people do not know this but GWF was on the bottom of the damage board from module 3-6. They really needed a good buff. Also why nerf a class that it's damage primarily comes from Lostmauth? Lostmauths 3 of set is broken.
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
They should be slow af tho, thats what they are..heavy warriors right?
Actually GF wears heavy plate. GWF wears much lighter Scale Mail. Mobility.... Also, they have no dodge.
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
edited December 2015
Why all the GG? If you guys want to do heavy DPS, why don't you switch? I was a GF, but really wanted a toon that could clear rooms easily-so I switched. It would be cool if I had some good ranged equipment, I don't see why a GWF couldn't use a bow. But I'm not crying over it.
What baffles me is that it comes up at all. Why is it important if one class does more damage than the other?
I am baffled by people that try to explain all these problems aways by claiming it does not matter - of course it matters ! When you invest month or years of time and money and then find out that was all a waste and the only thing that matters is what class you picked at the start, then its a VERY big deal.
So is this to say that if someone had picked a gwf at the start they are the lucky ones since gwfs have always been awesome sauce?
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revan06100Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 205Arc User
edited December 2015
Guys you seem to forget something. GWF cannot debuff/heal, things that SW/CW/HR can do, and they can only buff themselves. And for those who are saying that GWF's can stunt or dodge, it's not completly true, let me explain. To get the higher dps, you need to follow a critical build, for instance, Lazalia's, Lia's or Thor's. Now, everything that has something to do with stunt, is not in our build, wich means a full high DPS GWF will not have any stunt power, nothing, only dps and buff. Now about the dodging, we don't dodge, we just move faster when we press shift, just like SW's. Though, i agree that GWF's dps are very high, maybe a bit too much compare to other class with dps parangon paths, now, i don't think a massive nerfing is necessary, maybe reduce the damages they deal yes, or increase them for other classes, but don't forget that we're not tank and we don't have much rather than dmgs.
Guys you seem to forget something. GWF cannot debuff/heal, things that SW/CW/HR can do, and they can only buff themselves. And for those who are saying that GWF's can stunt or dodge, it's not completly true, let me explain. To get the higher dps, you need to follow a critical build, for instance, Lazalia's, Lia's or Thor's. Now, everything that has something to do with stunt, is not in our build, wich means a full high DPS GWF will not have any stunt power, nothing, only dps and buff. Now about the dodging, we don't dodge, we just move faster when we press shift, just like SW's. Though, i agree that GWF's dps are very high, maybe a bit too much compare to other class with dps parangon paths, now, i don't think a massive nerfing is necessary, maybe reduce the damages they deal yes, or increase them for other classes, but don't forget that we're not tank and we don't have much rather than dmgs.
gwf can offer a whole party combat advantage and 8% more damage by marking. weapon master strike dubuffs works for everyone in the party too. TR-HR cant heal i dont know where you got that idea. With unstoppable temp HP stacking and the crazy damage they have got, they only need 2 at wills to have unstoppable back and its not binded with any cooldown.
Guys you seem to forget something. GWF cannot debuff/heal, things that SW/CW/HR can do, and they can only buff themselves. And for those who are saying that GWF's can stunt or dodge, it's not completly true, let me explain. To get the higher dps, you need to follow a critical build, for instance, Lazalia's, Lia's or Thor's. Now, everything that has something to do with stunt, is not in our build, wich means a full high DPS GWF will not have any stunt power, nothing, only dps and buff. Now about the dodging, we don't dodge, we just move faster when we press shift, just like SW's. Though, i agree that GWF's dps are very high, maybe a bit too much compare to other class with dps parangon paths, now, i don't think a massive nerfing is necessary, maybe reduce the damages they deal yes, or increase them for other classes, but don't forget that we're not tank and we don't have much rather than dmgs.
weapon master strike dubuffs works for everyone in the party too.
Is there something wrong with the GWF deals top dmg? A dc/op heal debuffs GF/protect and buffs, CW controls and HRs too. SW has the best singeltarget dps for the bossfight and TRs do decent all around.
But all you want to do from what i can read, is deal the most dmg no matter what class u pick, and never realise how good the classes can be in use with synergy with eachoter. Cry cry cry and never come with a solution or tips how to adjust things. Imho a GWF should deal the most dmg, guess we dont share that opinion.
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
What baffles me is that it comes up at all. Why is it important if one class does more damage than the other?
I am baffled by people that try to explain all these problems aways by claiming it does not matter - of course it matters ! When you invest month or years of time and money and then find out that was all a waste and the only thing that matters is what class you picked at the start, then its a VERY big deal.
So is this to say that if someone had picked a gwf at the start they are the lucky ones since gwfs have always been awesome sauce?
I dunno, I started in Mod 4. Not knowing what I was doing I picked GF. Invested heavily in him, too, and finally realized it was not the class I wanted to play. I started a GWF at the beginning of Mod 7. I wanted a class that could clear a room faster.
It never occurred to me that GWF shouldn't be the damage dealer. Great Weapons, and all that.
What baffles me is that it comes up at all. Why is it important if one class does more damage than the other?
I am baffled by people that try to explain all these problems aways by claiming it does not matter - of course it matters ! When you invest month or years of time and money and then find out that was all a waste and the only thing that matters is what class you picked at the start, then its a VERY big deal.
So is this to say that if someone had picked a gwf at the start they are the lucky ones since gwfs have always been awesome sauce?
I dunno, I started in Mod 4. Not knowing what I was doing I picked GF. I started a GWF at the beginning of Mod 7. I wanted a class that could clear a room faster.
Clearing a room faster than a gf could be done with several choices...but that is also not the beginning.
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
Clearing a room faster than a gf could be done with several choices in mod 4...but that is also not the beginning.
I agree. Other classes can clear a room faster than a GF now--4 modules later as well. My point was that to invest in something you started when you didn't know the game, and refuse to try something else is a bit silly. I spent months on my GF, and I hated it.
Clearing a room faster than a gf could be done with several choices in mod 4...but that is also not the beginning.
I agree. Other classes can clear a room faster than a GF now--4 modules later as well. My point was that to invest in something you started when you didn't know the game, and refuse to try something else is a bit silly. I spent months on my GF, and I hated it.
My point is a slightly different but I'll wait for dude to respond if he so chooses.
Clearing a room faster than a gf could be done with several choices in mod 4...but that is also not the beginning.
I agree. Other classes can clear a room faster than a GF now--4 modules later as well. My point was that to invest in something you started when you didn't know the game, and refuse to try something else is a bit silly. I spent months on my GF, and I hated it.
your point is not even a point. i main a tr and a hr and it s enough for my time. Both are strikers both should do damages. while its ok to not top any kind of dps charts with my 4k HR which btw has at wills striking for 10k at most .... (ridicolous) its not ok to be outdps-ed by the double by any HAMSTER 2.8k+ gwfs while playing my 4k tr. its offensive to the time i spent on my pve specced TR with companions and so on. We are talking about a 4k tr which have to give all itself to compete with a 2.8k gwf. Spending more for him? whats the point?
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
TRs have skills other than damage. I wouldn't pick a TR for damage dealing, but perhaps that's my old DnD bias coming through. I don't know why a thief should "compete" with a fighter over damage.
Any money spent on Cryptic games is a likely waste, whatever the class. I learned that after gearing up my GF the month before Mod 6 hit--and wiped it all away. I had to salvage equipment I'd *just* spent time and money on--to get a few coppers back. I've spent time and money since then, but I consider it a form of gambling.
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
My point is a slightly different but I'll wait for dude to respond if he so chooses.
Is the point that I've only had a year plus of hearing broken promises instead of 2 plus? I'd say that rules and concepts learned prior to Mod 6 are outdated. All promises were broken at that point.
My point is a slightly different but I'll wait for dude to respond if he so chooses.
Is the point that I've only had a year plus of hearing broken promises instead of 2 plus? I'd say that rules and concepts learned prior to Mod 6 are outdated. All promises were broken at that point.
No bud, not what I was getting at. Since I don't really have time to babysit a thread tonight, I'll illustrate a bit. If you were here in the beginning, there is a chance whatever class you have chosen has seen it's ups and downs. It's not as simple as "choose the right class in the beginning". For instance, when HRs first came about, paingiver was as simple as a split shot spam, SWs had a great time with TT, CWs...well...ups and downs. If you have come here recently and chose poorly not having known the game, well, you wouldn't know any different.
Rarydan, who I resoect, is probably bitter by now since TRs spent a good bit of time much like homeless people...getting scraps from the generous if they wanted to run a dungeon. Lots of folks forget this or were'nt around when it was happening.
My point is that, either wait your turn again or spend more time pushing for what classes needs to be on par. Tough road though...sometimes classes get wrecked and appeals to the powers that be seem to take too long (sw comes to mind). I don't wanna see my favorite class get wrecked again because folks are angry...it's simply not the gwf's fault.
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
My point is a slightly different but I'll wait for dude to respond if he so chooses.
Is the point that I've only had a year plus of hearing broken promises instead of 2 plus? I'd say that rules and concepts learned prior to Mod 6 are outdated. All promises were broken at that point.
No bud, not what I was getting at. Since I don't really have time to babysit a thread tonight, I'll illustrate a bit. If you were here in the beginning, there is a chance whatever class you have chosen has seen it's ups and downs. It's not as simple as "choose the right class in the beginning". For instance, when HRs first came about, paingiver was as simple as a split shot spam, SWs had a great time with TT, CWs...well...ups and downs. If you have come here recently and chose poorly not having known the game, well, you wouldn't know any different.
Thanks for the explanation. I have heard a lot about the ups and downs of different classes, but I was learning the game through Mod 4 and Mod 5--so had no specific opinions on classes. Since Mod 6 the classes have been prestty static--up to and including the Paladin. Everyone has discussed the nerf the Pally is going to get, yet it never happens. As a GF at the time, I considered the Pally pretty offensive. It was a big part of my decision to move to GWF.
The SW was royally **** from Mod 6, and has only had token upticks, if that. The HR, I understand, similar but not as severe as the SW bomb drop. As far as I know, those classes need to be fixed.
Other than that, sorry if I was offensive.
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clericalistMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 595Arc User
How much CC a CW brings? Is CW CC worth only 30% DPS? Expecially if, most likely, in the future with fixed OPs, CC will be needed. If, even now, you run without an OP, CC is golden. I wouldn't rate it equal to a 30% DPS difference.
So i'd take a look at how much CC a CW brings, and how valuable it is with proper PvE content (3k dungeons and "fixed" OPs).
Ya, maybe not... I would say around 20%, as 30% is a lot more.
I did some testing along with a friend of min, who plays a GWF, I was on a CW. Using ATC we did some target dummy dps in the guildhall.
One thing stands out, when looking at the statistics of the test - The degree of stacking the GWF has. Let me try to explain, we are looking at Lostmouth's Vengeance, A proc from the lostmouth set, triggering on critical hits. I am picking the lostmouth proc because it is an attack that both the CW and the GWF has in this case. The GWF and the CW are both 2.7kilevel.
The CW - Starts out doing around 2400 damage pr. proc and when all buffs/debuffs from the CW are stacked, ending at around 6800damage. and increase of around 280%
The GWF - Starts at around 3500 damage pr. proc and when all buffs/debuffs from the GWF are stacked, ending at around 45000damage. An increase of around 1200%.
On a later Dragon Flight guild encounter, out of 9 players, we had just one GWF, combatlog shows the GWF having an average of 35000dps the rest of the DPS classes (2CW, 1SW, 2TS and on HR) all had around 10000dps. On another dragon flight. with just 7 players the one GWF (all the same guy) had done 39million damage out of a total of 80million. So one guy doing as much damage as 6 other players.
Now I know that all of you that main a GWF dos not want to see a nerf to the class. But you must admit that the class is a bit over the top, with 2.7ilevel beeing enough to solo 10+ player HEs in Dwarven vally. With a 4k Ilevel GWF soloing a full T2 dungeon, ect.
I for one would like to see all the "dps" classes (HR, CW, TR, SW and GWF) be with in 20% or maybe 30% dps of each other, giving same gear and player skill. With the classes that offer other things, like slight CC or consistent group buffs to be on the lower part of the bracket. But honest to my knowledge all the classes offer something other then DPS, the GWF fx, gives aoe group combat advantage.
As such I would like the lacking dps classes to get a buff and the leading dps class to get a nerf, bringing the classes closer. At this point a TR or a CW or whatever, could get a 100% increase in dps and still be far behind an equal ilevel GWF.
edit: removing self fluffing.
Funny how none of the apologists for the GWF will ever reply to this. Nobody with even the hint of any intelligence can openly defend the GWF in its current state.
How much CC a CW brings? Is CW CC worth only 30% DPS? Expecially if, most likely, in the future with fixed OPs, CC will be needed. If, even now, you run without an OP, CC is golden. I wouldn't rate it equal to a 30% DPS difference.
So i'd take a look at how much CC a CW brings, and how valuable it is with proper PvE content (3k dungeons and "fixed" OPs).
Ya, maybe not... I would say around 20%, as 30% is a lot more.
I did some testing along with a friend of min, who plays a GWF, I was on a CW. Using ATC we did some target dummy dps in the guildhall.
One thing stands out, when looking at the statistics of the test - The degree of stacking the GWF has. Let me try to explain, we are looking at Lostmouth's Vengeance, A proc from the lostmouth set, triggering on critical hits. I am picking the lostmouth proc because it is an attack that both the CW and the GWF has in this case. The GWF and the CW are both 2.7kilevel.
The CW - Starts out doing around 2400 damage pr. proc and when all buffs/debuffs from the CW are stacked, ending at around 6800damage. and increase of around 280%
The GWF - Starts at around 3500 damage pr. proc and when all buffs/debuffs from the GWF are stacked, ending at around 45000damage. An increase of around 1200%.
On a later Dragon Flight guild encounter, out of 9 players, we had just one GWF, combatlog shows the GWF having an average of 35000dps the rest of the DPS classes (2CW, 1SW, 2TS and on HR) all had around 10000dps. On another dragon flight. with just 7 players the one GWF (all the same guy) had done 39million damage out of a total of 80million. So one guy doing as much damage as 6 other players.
Now I know that all of you that main a GWF dos not want to see a nerf to the class. But you must admit that the class is a bit over the top, with 2.7ilevel beeing enough to solo 10+ player HEs in Dwarven vally. With a 4k Ilevel GWF soloing a full T2 dungeon, ect.
I for one would like to see all the "dps" classes (HR, CW, TR, SW and GWF) be with in 20% or maybe 30% dps of each other, giving same gear and player skill. With the classes that offer other things, like slight CC or consistent group buffs to be on the lower part of the bracket. But honest to my knowledge all the classes offer something other then DPS, the GWF fx, gives aoe group combat advantage.
As such I would like the lacking dps classes to get a buff and the leading dps class to get a nerf, bringing the classes closer. At this point a TR or a CW or whatever, could get a 100% increase in dps and still be far behind an equal ilevel GWF.
edit: removing self fluffing.
Funny how none of the apologists for the GWF will ever reply to this. Nobody with even the hint of any intelligence can openly defend the GWF in its current state.
You mean reply to a thread that has no info on the skill level or builds of the other players mentioned here as a comparison?
Comments
How much interest do you expect from damagedealer chars (non-gws of course) for the new damage increasing companion "Siege Master"?
Why should anyone increase his/her damage for at most 4%, if the own damage is only a fraction of a gwfs (at most 50%).
Its also not just dps that matters. When the lowest temp lock could out heal any cleric simply because of one single feat, that was unacceptable. When the lowest paladin can suddenly do more than a maxed out guardian, that is unacceptable
I did some testing along with a friend of min, who plays a GWF, I was on a CW. Using ATC we did some target dummy dps in the guildhall.
One thing stands out, when looking at the statistics of the test - The degree of stacking the GWF has. Let me try to explain, we are looking at Lostmouth's Vengeance, A proc from the lostmouth set, triggering on critical hits. I am picking the lostmouth proc because it is an attack that both the CW and the GWF has in this case. The GWF and the CW are both 2.7kilevel.
The CW - Starts out doing around 2400 damage pr. proc and when all buffs/debuffs from the CW are stacked, ending at around 6800damage. and increase of around 280%
The GWF - Starts at around 3500 damage pr. proc and when all buffs/debuffs from the GWF are stacked, ending at around 45000damage. An increase of around 1200%.
On a later Dragon Flight guild encounter, out of 9 players, we had just one GWF, combatlog shows the GWF having an average of 35000dps the rest of the DPS classes (2CW, 1SW, 2TS and on HR) all had around 10000dps. On another dragon flight. with just 7 players the one GWF (all the same guy) had done 39million damage out of a total of 80million. So one guy doing as much damage as 6 other players.
Now I know that all of you that main a GWF dos not want to see a nerf to the class. But you must admit that the class is a bit over the top, with 2.7ilevel beeing enough to solo 10+ player HEs in Dwarven vally. With a 4k Ilevel GWF soloing a full T2 dungeon, ect.
I for one would like to see all the "dps" classes (HR, CW, TR, SW and GWF) be with in 20% or maybe 30% dps of each other, giving same gear and player skill. With the classes that offer other things, like slight CC or consistent group buffs to be on the lower part of the bracket. But honest to my knowledge all the classes offer something other then DPS, the GWF fx, gives aoe group combat advantage.
As such I would like the lacking dps classes to get a buff and the leading dps class to get a nerf, bringing the classes closer. At this point a TR or a CW or whatever, could get a 100% increase in dps and still be far behind an equal ilevel GWF.
edit: removing self fluffing.
Besides all that however, there is an even bigger problem, Cryptic has been completely silent on the awful Paladin class, I assume this means they are happy with what they produced and will not fix it. Since every class is now immortal it means healing, cc , tanking is irrelevant (more so than even before mod 6), they should give every class the same dps. And I am being serious here, make even the guardian and cleric have the same dps as the tradional striker classes.
GWF cannot debuff/heal, things that SW/CW/HR can do, and they can only buff themselves.
And for those who are saying that GWF's can stunt or dodge, it's not completly true, let me explain.
To get the higher dps, you need to follow a critical build, for instance, Lazalia's, Lia's or Thor's.
Now, everything that has something to do with stunt, is not in our build, wich means a full high DPS GWF will not have any stunt power, nothing, only dps and buff.
Now about the dodging, we don't dodge, we just move faster when we press shift, just like SW's.
Though, i agree that GWF's dps are very high, maybe a bit too much compare to other class with dps parangon paths, now, i don't think a massive nerfing is necessary, maybe reduce the damages they deal yes, or increase them for other classes, but don't forget that we're not tank and we don't have much rather than dmgs.
weapon master strike dubuffs works for everyone in the party too.
TR-HR cant heal i dont know where you got that idea. With unstoppable temp HP stacking and the crazy damage they have got, they only need 2 at wills to have unstoppable back and its not binded with any cooldown.
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
But all you want to do from what i can read, is deal the most dmg no matter what class u pick, and never realise how good the classes can be in use with synergy with eachoter. Cry cry cry and never come with a solution or tips how to adjust things.
Imho a GWF should deal the most dmg, guess we dont share that opinion.
It never occurred to me that GWF shouldn't be the damage dealer. Great Weapons, and all that.
i main a tr and a hr and it s enough for my time. Both are strikers both should do damages.
while its ok to not top any kind of dps charts with my 4k HR which btw has at wills striking for 10k at most .... (ridicolous)
its not ok to be outdps-ed by the double by any HAMSTER 2.8k+ gwfs while playing my 4k tr.
its offensive to the time i spent on my pve specced TR with companions and so on. We are talking about a 4k tr which have to give all itself to compete with a 2.8k gwf.
Spending more for him? whats the point?
Any money spent on Cryptic games is a likely waste, whatever the class. I learned that after gearing up my GF the month before Mod 6 hit--and wiped it all away. I had to salvage equipment I'd *just* spent time and money on--to get a few coppers back. I've spent time and money since then, but I consider it a form of gambling.
Rarydan, who I resoect, is probably bitter by now since TRs spent a good bit of time much like homeless people...getting scraps from the generous if they wanted to run a dungeon. Lots of folks forget this or were'nt around when it was happening.
My point is that, either wait your turn again or spend more time pushing for what classes needs to be on par. Tough road though...sometimes classes get wrecked and appeals to the powers that be seem to take too long (sw comes to mind). I don't wanna see my favorite class get wrecked again because folks are angry...it's simply not the gwf's fault.
The SW was royally **** from Mod 6, and has only had token upticks, if that. The HR, I understand, similar but not as severe as the SW bomb drop. As far as I know, those classes need to be fixed.
Other than that, sorry if I was offensive.