icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
edited May 2016
Update:
Add a new tutorial video to show how GWF fights with GFs.
Opponent: Saruhan (GF, ilvl 4252) HP: 138K Power: 26K Defense: 17K https://youtu.be/VtD45an3vJc Tips: If you hear the sound at the 3rd or 19th second of the video, that means they have buffed up their attack and a bull charge is not too far away. You either sprint to avoid being proned by Bull Charge, or in the 19th second's case, I knew he was gonna attack, so that makes it easy to land my daily+IBS.
PS: If you see the skill that slams the ground, that means they are further buffed, you either want to draw the distance of avoid being hit hard, or if you are close-by and have a lot of HP left, then you could sprint to them to daily+ibs
Hey Icy, new player, stumbled on your build and have been leveling up a Half Orc with it. You say you changed your feats and stats, could you fill me in better? You're no longer 19str/30con/20dex? I see the pics state that, but you've said lately that you went all str/con. Is that a point for point thing? +1 to each every chance, or what's up?
Post edited by reignmaker#6133 on
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
watching so much hp not only on great weapons but also i have seen and cw with 175k hp that is a reason to not tone down guardian fighter btw. ALSO icydrake show us with some tactic you can avoid big hit from guardian fighter and he is meelee which is harder to avoid those big hits.
4/5 countless scars (12% DR, faster to stack. If an enemy kites you for 6 seconds you have to rebuild all stacks, so 3% DR loss on a Neg user shouldn't change much)
4/5 relentless battle fury: yeah i know the build is based around BF, but basically you lose 0.5s duration and like 1.6s cooldown reduction which might be inside the "delay" you may have using it (during a fight, you might not use exactly as soon as the cooldown is over if you're busy dodging or fighting)
3/5 Executioner's style: 18% buff on sure strike and IBS, solid, you can finish fights faster with SS and a well placed IBS, which can:
I'm just level 54 now but I read a lot to plan ahead. I'm also thinking what my distribution of points will be between those 3 feats.
How about 5/5 Executioner's style, 3/5 Relentless Battle Fury and 2/5 Countless Scars?
5 3 2 as opposed to 4 3 3 I believe you suggested before.
Seems like Icydrake is a fan of Battle Fury, I understand why, it makes sense since this is a build based on speed and movement. Battle Fury allows you to sprint twice, so I can see it can be very useful, especially in PVP.
Apart from the double sprint, how good are Battle Fury's buffs compared to other buffs we have access to?
I did some tests and wrote down the damage versus simple opponents, to calculate percentages.
I read about the double marking tactic, so I tried that. With either threatening rush + daring shout, or the other way around, DS + TS. The 1st mark gives +15% combat advantage and +20% = +35%. The 2nd mark only gives +15% combat advantage. 35 + 15 = +50%
Now, what if we just mark once and use Battle Fury afterwards? +35% from the mark and +20% from Battle Fury, considering BF is at rank 4 and this is its correct bonus. My math was +5% for every rank. In total, 35 + 20 = +55%.
In conclusion, TS + BF gives a bigger damage bonus than TS + DS, right? Since BF gives +20% while 2nd mark only gives +15%.
My BF is still at rank 1. Honestly, I didn't like it that much when I first tried. Only 3 seconds seems such short time. The mark lasts much longer. I know BF lasts 6 seconds at rank 4 and with 3 points into the Relentless feat, probably 8 seconds.
Let's calculate yet another scenario. TS + DS + BF. The thing I don't like about chaining up bonuses is that it takes a long time to cast all these 3 powers before we really start doing damage, and we have 1 less at-will free spot and 2 less encounter free spots. With this scenario (DS + BF), we only have 1 other free encounter spot to use. Either with IBS or Hidden Daggers I'm guessing. So it won't do for someone who wants to use both HD and IBS.
TS + DS gives +50% bonus. With +20% from Battle Fury, 50 + 20 = +70%. Sounds like a big damage booster. I have to try a IBS with these 3 buffs active to see the difference.
Another important question in my opinion is, from all the scenarios we are discussing, which one does the most overall damage in PVP or in a dungeon? I never tested with real data, but from what I read, our at-wills do more damage overall than our encounters and dailies.
EDIT: On second thought, although I still didn't gain access to Hidden Daggers, I read its damage booster is +40%. So, maybe we can remove DS from my previous example, since DS is the power that gives the lower damage bonus. How about TS + BF + HD + IBS? 35 (TS) + 20 (BF) + 40 (HD) = +95% bonus damage before using IBS for maximum damage, if my math is correct.
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icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
Yup, Hidden Dagger gives the biggest damage boost so its needed, the rest two slots are choices between either DS+IBS or BF+IBS, or DS+BF.
DS+IBS is great, it gives you more damage boost and debuff all people around you, its good on a node fight debuffing everyone for your team, however you need to HIT the target to debuff them.
BF+IBS is a self-buff and will always be effective, it gives slightly less damage bonus compare to DS, but with the amount of sprint you can do, you will effectively take a lot less damage+cc immunity and this will help you to survive a lot better. On top of that, it also offers distinctive tactical advantage, it allows you to sprint from one node to another faster than any class in the game to defend/help cap nodes and this is very important in a premade game.
DS+HD+BF+Threatening Rush, this gives a lot of debuff and your at wills will hit A LOT harder, unfortunately this build does not have enough burst to take ppl down in high level fights.
4/5 countless scars (12% DR, faster to stack. If an enemy kites you for 6 seconds you have to rebuild all stacks, so 3% DR loss on a Neg user shouldn't change much)
4/5 relentless battle fury: yeah i know the build is based around BF, but basically you lose 0.5s duration and like 1.6s cooldown reduction which might be inside the "delay" you may have using it (during a fight, you might not use exactly as soon as the cooldown is over if you're busy dodging or fighting)
3/5 Executioner's style: 18% buff on sure strike and IBS, solid, you can finish fights faster with SS and a well placed IBS, which can:
I'm just level 54 now but I read a lot to plan ahead. I'm also thinking what my distribution of points will be between those 3 feats.
How about 5/5 Executioner's style, 3/5 Relentless Battle Fury and 2/5 Countless Scars?
5 3 2 as opposed to 4 3 3 I believe you suggested before.
Seems like Icydrake is a fan of Battle Fury, I understand why, it makes sense since this is a build based on speed and movement. Battle Fury allows you to sprint twice, so I can see it can be very useful, especially in PVP.
Apart from the double sprint, how good are Battle Fury's buffs compared to other buffs we have access to?
I did some tests and wrote down the damage versus simple opponents, to calculate percentages.
I read about the double marking tactic, so I tried that. With either threatening rush + daring shout, or the other way around, DS + TS. The 1st mark gives +15% combat advantage and +20% = +35%. The 2nd mark only gives +15% combat advantage. 35 + 15 = +50%
Now, what if we just mark once and use Battle Fury afterwards? +35% from the mark and +20% from Battle Fury, considering BF is at rank 4 and this is its correct bonus. My math was +5% for every rank. In total, 35 + 20 = +55%.
In conclusion, TS + BF gives a bigger damage bonus than TS + DS, right? Since BF gives +20% while 2nd mark only gives +15%.
My BF is still at rank 1. Honestly, I didn't like it that much when I first tried. Only 3 seconds seems such short time. The mark lasts much longer. I know BF lasts 6 seconds at rank 4 and with 3 points into the Relentless feat, probably 8 seconds.
Let's calculate yet another scenario. TS + DS + BF. The thing I don't like about chaining up bonuses is that it takes a long time to cast all these 3 powers before we really start doing damage, and we have 1 less at-will free spot and 2 less encounter free spots. With this scenario (DS + BF), we only have 1 other free encounter spot to use. Either with IBS or Hidden Daggers I'm guessing. So it won't do for someone who wants to use both HD and IBS.
TS + DS gives +50% bonus. With +20% from Battle Fury, 50 + 20 = +70%. Sounds like a big damage booster. I have to try a IBS with these 3 buffs active to see the difference.
Another important question in my opinion is, from all the scenarios we are discussing, which one does the most overall damage in PVP or in a dungeon? I never tested with real data, but from what I read, our at-wills do more damage overall than our encounters and dailies.
EDIT: On second thought, although I still didn't gain access to Hidden Daggers, I read its damage booster is +40%. So, maybe we can remove DS from my previous example, since DS is the power that gives the lower damage bonus. How about TS + BF + HD + IBS? 35 (TS) + 20 (BF) + 40 (HD) = +95% bonus damage before using IBS for maximum damage, if my math is correct.
icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
Personally I can't be bothered... I have 100 SMOPs here if he wanna take the challenge, I will accept the payment of just 50 SMOPs if he can't bring me down
OTHER PERSON: in terms of gear yes but i can assure you that speed is better skill wise, just give him more time to get used to gwf and you will see how good he will be
OTHER PERSON: in terms of gear yes but i can assure you that speed is better skill wise, just give him more time to get used to gwf and you will see how good he will be
XXDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Speedflash doesn't need to get used to GWF because he's been playing one and posting pvp videos for a long time. He also does pvp videos on his other classes, all of which are great builds. I don't play on PC so I can't verify if they are just pug smashing videos or legit but either way he looks impressive. That said Icy has proven he can beat the best of the best and I have yet to see Speed make that same claim.
OTHER PERSON: in terms of gear yes but i can assure you that speed is better skill wise, just give him more time to get used to gwf and you will see how good he will be
XXDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Speedflash doesn't need to get used to GWF because he's been playing one and posting pvp videos for a long time. He also does pvp videos on his other classes, all of which are great builds. I don't play on PC so I can't verify if they are just pug smashing videos or legit but either way he looks impressive. That said Icy has proven he can beat the best of the best and I have yet to see Speed make that same claim.
yo , videos don't prove anything mate ,
I was just using a video to show who he is. . . Infact, videos usually make people seem worse cause all I usually ever see now is pug stomping or endless premades.
This..
I was agreeing with you Lancer. I even said he could be just pug smashing in those videos. Speed flash is known for making impressive pvp videos and that's it. I've never heard him say he was the best or make any comparison to the top dogs on PC. In my eyes he is a Youtuber and that's it. You still have to have a good build to be able to pull off 20-0 matches even in pug but that doesn't mean he can beat a Lancer or an Icydrake.
I have recently updated my build to Speed Demon v6 and the new build has successfully taken down several GWFs between 3.5~4k ilvl, here's a video of a decent GWF from Forsaken Rebellion, this is just to show that its now possible to kill 'some' highly geared GWFs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qGNI-Chiq0
i'm a little confused with time/date i guess or what do you mean with 4272gs you're able to kill 3.5-4k gs players ?
My previous build wasn't able to kill 3.5k+ GWF, however the new build has been able to take down even the BiS GWFs, old build has more surviability, more defensiveness, but the new build is more offensive and can now take down even some 4.25k GWFs.
icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
edited August 2016
You could be right and the same can be argued about Guild Boons or Insignias (its not cheap to get 5 mounts fully equipped with Epic insignias too) Personally I prefer the game where it used to be back in mod 2~5, but if we cannot change that, then we learn to adopt. However, if its the blue shield you concern about, then you might be on the wrong track, as you have probably noticed, even without the blue shield, I dont really have much problem keeping myself alive (noticed when I use the mount power, my HP are usually pretty much full at the time too?), so yes, the blue shield is not what you should be paying attention to... the main use of the mount power is for the prone effect to help you land your daily more reliably.
Heh, You have the same Hit&Run mind like me, it seems. I'm back in the game after a loooong brake (M6), I did some Domination as I was levelling from 60 towards 70 and my old style Instigator (Sprint in to a squishy or a weakened player, TD->feated Flourish->IBS->Crescendo->GTFO ) still worked! Then I hit 70, entered domination and everyone had 3 times as much HP as me + T.Negation and I didn't even scratch them at all. Nice to find this build, as I realised I will have to respec to Destroyer and I thought I'd have to lose my speed (sprinting faster then epic mounts kinda pisses off people I have a DC if I want to play something slower after all
Question: does it fare at least reasonably in PvE?
Comments
Add a new tutorial video to show how GWF fights with GFs.
Opponent: Saruhan (GF, ilvl 4252)
HP: 138K
Power: 26K
Defense: 17K
Tips: If you hear the sound at the 3rd or 19th second of the video, that means they have buffed up their attack and a bull charge is not too far away. You either sprint to avoid being proned by Bull Charge, or in the 19th second's case, I knew he was gonna attack, so that makes it easy to land my daily+IBS.
PS: If you see the skill that slams the ground, that means they are further buffed, you either want to draw the distance of avoid being hit hard, or if you are close-by and have a lot of HP left, then you could sprint to them to daily+ibs
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
How about 5/5 Executioner's style, 3/5 Relentless Battle Fury and 2/5 Countless Scars?
5 3 2 as opposed to 4 3 3 I believe you suggested before.
Seems like Icydrake is a fan of Battle Fury, I understand why, it makes sense since this is a build based on speed and movement. Battle Fury allows you to sprint twice, so I can see it can be very useful, especially in PVP.
Apart from the double sprint, how good are Battle Fury's buffs compared to other buffs we have access to?
I did some tests and wrote down the damage versus simple opponents, to calculate percentages.
I read about the double marking tactic, so I tried that. With either threatening rush + daring shout, or the other way around, DS + TS. The 1st mark gives +15% combat advantage and +20% = +35%. The 2nd mark only gives +15% combat advantage. 35 + 15 = +50%
Now, what if we just mark once and use Battle Fury afterwards? +35% from the mark and +20% from Battle Fury, considering BF is at rank 4 and this is its correct bonus. My math was +5% for every rank. In total, 35 + 20 = +55%.
In conclusion, TS + BF gives a bigger damage bonus than TS + DS, right? Since BF gives +20% while 2nd mark only gives +15%.
My BF is still at rank 1. Honestly, I didn't like it that much when I first tried. Only 3 seconds seems such short time. The mark lasts much longer. I know BF lasts 6 seconds at rank 4 and with 3 points into the Relentless feat, probably 8 seconds.
Let's calculate yet another scenario. TS + DS + BF. The thing I don't like about chaining up bonuses is that it takes a long time to cast all these 3 powers before we really start doing damage, and we have 1 less at-will free spot and 2 less encounter free spots. With this scenario (DS + BF), we only have 1 other free encounter spot to use. Either with IBS or Hidden Daggers I'm guessing. So it won't do for someone who wants to use both HD and IBS.
TS + DS gives +50% bonus. With +20% from Battle Fury, 50 + 20 = +70%. Sounds like a big damage booster. I have to try a IBS with these 3 buffs active to see the difference.
Another important question in my opinion is, from all the scenarios we are discussing, which one does the most overall damage in PVP or in a dungeon? I never tested with real data, but from what I read, our at-wills do more damage overall than our encounters and dailies.
EDIT: On second thought, although I still didn't gain access to Hidden Daggers, I read its damage booster is +40%. So, maybe we can remove DS from my previous example, since DS is the power that gives the lower damage bonus. How about TS + BF + HD + IBS? 35 (TS) + 20 (BF) + 40 (HD) = +95% bonus damage before using IBS for maximum damage, if my math is correct.
DS+IBS is great, it gives you more damage boost and debuff all people around you, its good on a node fight debuffing everyone for your team, however you need to HIT the target to debuff them.
BF+IBS is a self-buff and will always be effective, it gives slightly less damage bonus compare to DS, but with the amount of sprint you can do, you will effectively take a lot less damage+cc immunity and this will help you to survive a lot better. On top of that, it also offers distinctive tactical advantage, it allows you to sprint from one node to another faster than any class in the game to defend/help cap nodes and this is very important in a premade game.
DS+HD+BF+Threatening Rush, this gives a lot of debuff and your at wills will hit A LOT harder, unfortunately this build does not have enough burst to take ppl down in high level fights.
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
Speedflash doesn't need to get used to GWF because he's been playing one and posting pvp videos for a long time. He also does pvp videos on his other classes, all of which are great builds. I don't play on PC so I can't verify if they are just pug smashing videos or legit but either way he looks impressive. That said Icy has proven he can beat the best of the best and I have yet to see Speed make that same claim.
I was agreeing with you Lancer. I even said he could be just pug smashing in those videos. Speed flash is known for making impressive pvp videos and that's it. I've never heard him say he was the best or make any comparison to the top dogs on PC. In my eyes he is a Youtuber and that's it. You still have to have a good build to be able to pull off 20-0 matches even in pug but that doesn't mean he can beat a Lancer or an Icydrake.
I have the Guild PVP gear and T. Negation and G. Vorpal.
I am Swordmaster Destroyer.
Sir Smacklots is a regular Premade GF of Tornado of Souls, this is just a video to demostrate how GWF can handle GFs in PvP.
I have recently updated my build to Speed Demon v6 and the new build has successfully taken down several GWFs between 3.5~4k ilvl, here's a video of a decent GWF from Forsaken Rebellion, this is just to show that its now possible to kill 'some' highly geared GWFs.
As many of you have requested, here is a 1 vs 1 video with Crow's GWF (speedflash)
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
My previous build wasn't able to kill 3.5k+ GWF, however the new build has been able to take down even the BiS GWFs, old build has more surviability, more defensiveness, but the new build is more offensive and can now take down even some 4.25k GWFs.
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
Question: does it fare at least reasonably in PvE?