icydrake's GWF PvP Build (mod 10.5) - Speed Demon v7

icyphish

Update History:

*Speed Demon build has been updated on 15/01/2017

KEY CHANGES TO V7 BUILD:

1. Armor sets has been changed from 2 Prestige+2 Lionsmere to 3 Prestige+Vivified Raid Armor, I have used 2 x Rosegold Rings to compensate the loss of Tenacity from Prestige Armor, this new set will offer both higher Power and HP at the sacrifice of a little Armor Penetration and almost un-noticible Tenacity. (alternative you can wear 2 Prestige + 2 Warborn / Lionsmere set with 1 Brutality or Sudden Life Steal Ring)

2. Feat has 1 less point in Disciple of Strength and Endless Assult, instead Ubiquitous Shield has been pumped to 5/5 points. As the new relic weapon from different classes now effectively deal more damage on GWF (especially TR's Shocking Execution), reducing Combat Advantage's damage and pumping the HP pool has proven to significantly help on the surviability. (the loss on damage bonus from Disciple of Strength and Endless Assult is very minimum, the new Relic Weapon itself noticbly increases GWF's damage) *It is also great to slot Stamina Ward Rank2 and Rogue Ward Rank 2 to effectively reduce TR's damage from SE)

Speed Demon version 7 build balance out both Damage and Surviability at the sacrifice of some defense. This build focus on balancing HP/Power/Armor Penetration and further multiplying damage using Combat Advantage and Demogorgon's set, and hence the ability score has been changed from focusing STR/CON to STR/CHA.

With the loss of Defense from the previous build, I have instead pumped up HP and Life Steal (via Mount Insignias, if you find LS too low, you can swap out Assassin's Convenant and switch it to Victim's Preservation with 3 Life Steal insignias to get to about 21% LS) to help increase the surviability and substain the new piercing damage from HR. This new build will help you survive against Piercing Damage decently while maximizing the Offensiveness of your GWF.

This build has successfully taken down many BiS players of different classes including top tier GWFs, unfortunately the downside is less tankiness and hence will require more footwork in order to survive.

I will try to record some videos on how this build performs in mod10 PvP, please feel free to give any feedback you might have

PS: Special thanks to Ryu and Tardii on testing the new build

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Hi Guys,

I am icydrake and many of you probably have came across me at PvP at a stage. Today I would like to share my build but probably wont be able to go into too much detail thanks to the 2 jobs, 1 girlfriend and 1 cat I have in real life

One of my guildies described my fighting style as a Speed Demon, so this is what I am gonna name this build!

INTRODUCTION
My idea of GWF is simple, I try to keep my weapon on my enemy all the time, after all if I cannot reach my enemy, no matter how strong my character is, I deal zero DPS, hence SPEED/MOBILITY is the key to this build.

On Defense, SPRINT is your best friend, the bonus Deflect and the CC immunity effectively reduce the damage you take and maximize the damage you deal. Cancelling your attacks' animation with sprint is a very important part of a successful GWF.

An example would be Takedown --> cancel into battlefury (buffs ur dmg) --> cancel into daily (Buff the combo's damage with Hidden Dagger in advance) + 1~2 Sure Strike+ sprint cancel+ IBS, or just 1~2x hidden daggers, or a few sure strikes to end the combo.

Build: Iron Vanguard - Destoyer
Feats/Boons: HP > Power > Armor Penetration> Life Steal > Recovery > Crit

SKILLS
At Will: Sure Strike, Threatening Rush
Encounter: Hidden Dagger, Take Down (or IBS or Darling Shout), Battlefury
Daily: Savage Advance, Indomitable Strength
Class Features: Bravery + Destoyer

Stats to target:
Life steal - around 15~23%
Speed bonus - around 15~20% (10% from Bravey)
Max HP - 160K~210K (as much as possible)
Power: Around 30K+
Armor Penetration - Around 90~130% Resist Ignored (~10K Armpen)
Recovery - 4k~6K

Enchantment: Feytouch weapon / negation armor
Offensive Slots: Vicious/Radiant Enchantment (or Silvery if your Recovery is too low, bring it up to at least 3k+)
Defensive Slots: Savage Enchantment (or Radiant if your HP is too low, or Dark if your Life Steal is less than 15%)

This build aims to maximize your OVERALL At-Will+Encounter damage using both the buffs from Hidden Dagger and Battlefury, if you would like some CC ability then choose Takedown, otherwise choose IBS/Darling Shout are decent options. The reason to stack Recovery is to get more hidden dagger shots and also to ensure you almost always have Battlefury ready for the extra damage buff and the free stamina refill, with your speed, you will be able to control a lot of your targets in close to mid range. Speed, is the key.

Fully buffed = 10 stacks of Destoyer's buff, hidden dagger, battle fury, destoyer's purpose
Debuff = Mark + Darling Shout

The strategy is simple, you threatening rush to your target, if they stay, you sure strike hit them, if they dodge, you sprint then Takedown. If you see them casting daily or CC, continue to sprint to avoid/cancel their CC/reduce damage (hidden dagger them at range), otherwise just ensure you sprint to right next to them to keep the whacking on.

Key things to note is, to understand your opponent's class mechanics and not to waste your attacks, for example when CW has shield on, make sure you hit them 2~3 times to weaken their shield before you cast any big damage combos otherwise a lot of your damage is mitigated.

I will be happy to reveal more tactics against each class if enough people is interested, instead of writing up a bunch of things that nobody reads


Here is a brief character sheet (Campfire+Food buff only), and some results from this build.

Character Sheet

*Character sheet is self-buffed with Invocation Scrolls and Food

Feats

Boons

Mount Insignias

Some results with this build....

Some fights using this build fighting against some of the TOP GWFs in game:

1 vs 1 with Mjolnir (@Ayroux, Absolute)
https://youtu.be/J2_6F2dqzSA


2 How Speed Demon build works in Premade fight (mod 10.5)
https://youtu.be/pjn2WGVKHjQ
https://youtu.be/TYGKjxXAoAM


GWF vs TR (mod 9)
Many of you have requested a video on how a GWF can fight with a top tier TR, here it is

Opponent: Shock-wave *aka Brollax* (TR, ilvl 4272, Essence of Aggression)
https://youtu.be/yPS0O9ImWnc - A

Opponent: Shuno (TR, ilvl 4242+, Essence of Aggression)
https://youtu.be/DRBRTo3g0X4

GWF vs GF (mod 10, Speed Demon v6)
Opponent: Sir Smacklots
Sir Smacklots is a regular Premade GF of Tornado of Souls, this is just a video to demostrate how GWF can handle GFs in PvP.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbcsmMrJb5s

GWF vs GWF (mod 10.5)
Opponent: AbuZa3roon
Abuza3roon is a BiS GWF from Forsaken Rebels with the 2nd highest KILL number GWF in leaderboard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lddnG8Newhg

Opponent: Crow (SpeedFlash)
As many of you have requested, here is a 1 vs 1 video with Crow's GWF (speedflash)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iBVuBCvG5s

Opponent:Mangroth
Mangroth has always been one of the strongest GWFs in every mod, skillful, knowledgeable and respectable, it has always been a pleasure doing 1 vs 1 with him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t7-QeN_fuA


Mod edit: Some videos removed at request of the other person in the video. Sorry.

adsfelipe

plz.. post a pvp video? im pretty curious about your build!

icyphish

As per your request, I took a video of a random pug fight, this video should give you an idea what this build feels like.

https://youtu.be/7yeCBgRIOVk

icyphish

Here is another video of a GG PvP which should show more about this build

https://youtu.be/2zrKz1A-B_o

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clawler22

Really enjoyed the videos! Watching them has given me some ideas and i thank you. I understand if you wont but would you be willing to share a screen shot of your feat tree? I would really appreciate it if at all possible.

icyphish

Unfortunately PM vs PM is becoming silly with 2 OP+1DC +2 High Burst DPS combo (eg. GF+ either TR or GWF or CW) combo and I dont think I need to explain why....

Sometimes you get a good match with less OP/DCs, but when there's 2~3 OP/DCs from both sides, you know the game's gonna become boring, cus it's gonna end up becoming a game of Force Capping and stay alive, instead of killing anything...

xsayajinx1 said:

Best part 10:00min - 11:00min when you go crazy against that many guys!



Still, I would like to see a video how you perform in premade pvp!

icyphish

clawler22 said:

Really enjoyed the videos! Watching them has given me some ideas and i thank you. I understand if you wont but would you be willing to share a screen shot of your feat tree? I would really appreciate it if at all possible.

Would try to do that for you later

clawler22

Thank you!

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This content has been removed.

icyphish

Boons and full character sheet updated as requested

blackyluke

pretty low dps
and were are the feats?

for newbies: this build is effective in pug matches were your severely outgearing your opponent, arguably you would win due to the gear difference anyway, but because you have much more stats than they do you can dump some of it into something like mobility and then be faster at places. If you fight equaly geared players you will have a hard time because they in return will have more raw combat stats as you do.
mobility is a big factor no question, but don't fool yourself.​​

icyphish

The DPS of this build is surprisingly higher than many of you would've thought IF YOU USE IT CORRECTLY, with the consistent buff from both HD and BF (hence the recovery needed) then you would realize the overall DPS of this build is not far behind the traditional DPS build, except you would have a lot more advantages beating many classes with the mobility/survivability you have

(e.g traditional gwfs gets dmg buffs from HD and Destoyer's stacks, you will be able to apply another layer of DMG buff keeping BF up all the time which further increases overall dmg on all your At-Will, Encounters and even Dailies, the overall buff for all damaging resources can effectively cover up the loss of one less encounter while providing more mobility, plus the mobility will help you to kill CWs easier since they can't kite you, TR easier since you will be able to always sprint to right next to them, or whatever classes that might kite you, if things doesn't look good, nobody can stop you from running away for a momental tactical retreat then come back full healed with water wheel for another round )

Some of you might wonder why use Takedown instead of IBS, thats because takedown is only 5.8 seconds cooldown and gets recharged instantly if missed, a IBS is twice the cooldown of Takedown and hardly offer twice's damage plus it has no CC control (with takedown hits, you can always connect with another 2~3 more hits or even a daily, which is effectively more overall dps compare toa IBS hit)

blackyluke said:

pretty low dps

and were are the feats?



for newbies: this build is effective in pug matches were your severely outgearing your opponent, arguably you would win due to the gear difference anyway, but because you have much more stats than they do you can dump some of it into something like mobility and then be faster at places. If you fight equaly geared players you will have a hard time because they in return will have more raw combat stats as you do.

mobility is a big factor no question, but don't fool yourself.​​

blackyluke

use a combat tracker and you understand that target dummies arent good test objects. still 33% crit is 33% crit and with double mark you cant IBS and with IBS you cant double mark unless you drop your battle fury... see there are limitation your at wills hit hard sure, but for how long? the mobility doesnt come from nothing there is no trick to have more stats than others you can only spread them differently and thats were you can argue min/maxing lies

play some premades, play against some geared players if you don't believe me​​

icyphish

Can't tell which premade team you play with, but I have been running with Purple Dragon and Absolute's premade for 11 months, fought with pretty much all top 10 GWFs during the NCL including RW_Vanpel which was the top GWF on NCL leaderboard at a stage with pretty even results, I myself was ranked #5 in overall GWF leaderboard during NCL at a stage, personally I consider this build pretty reliable in premades, but again its how you use it, after all PvP is not just about whacking people face to face, overall damage, buffs, tactical movements and survivability should all be taken into account and this build meets many of the requirements.

pando83

Great guide and original build. I was missing this!

I usually run with a slightly different rotation (BF-HD-RS) for extra stamina+ healing from RS which at full stacks is not bad at all. Mainly because i'm more used at landing RS directly than TD, and being a soulforged user i try to boost my survivability a lil' bit, plus using Lathander Set, RS helps me recover fast when i get back to life at roughly 35-40% total HP.
TD is still, most likely, optimal for a negation/T.Fey configuration cause it has the advantage of shorter cooldown feated, and damage boost (feated), but you need to cancel a lot and i'm lazy XD

BTW really good PvP build in my opinion, original and well explained.

IBS is pretty inefficient in PvP now.

This build 1v1 allows you to rush in, rotate, rush out and kite a lot vs "classic builds".
As icy said, the build itself is very efficient and powerful but it's not a "facetank" build, you need to use lots of footwrok and know the enemy cause you need to know how to use the build to make it work. It's not the build that works for you like the old classic builds centered around FLS-IBS.
But if you have skills, this more "proactive" build is very efficient. More efficient than a classic build.

So i'd say this build might be a more "advanced build". It's not newbie friendly cause it involves heavy use of personal skill and knowledge of the opponent, or you just run around and eventually run away.

In old module 4 the BF builds were not really effective cause the class itself got most of its damage from powers. Now current GWF damage comes from buffs. FLS is in the past imho. Low damage, long cooldown, CC easily deflected or nullified by Elven. IBS is not efficient.

My point of view: this build is a more mobile build, better also to 1v1 other classes. You can rotate a lot and move across the battlefield to contest a node 1v1 or support. The "classic build" imho is mainly a brawler to fight at mid in group fights where you can hit enemies more consistently. And you stay there, period.

So if by "premade fight" you mean a specific GWF role like staying at 2 to contest, then may be this build loses efficiency cause it's not made to facetank in small spaces.

In 1v1 vs other GWFs with more classic builds and rotations, i can outrun them= kite them a lot= i consistently prevent them from building destro stacks while, on the other hand, i get at full stacks pretty fast.

On a side note: with this build i beat a lot of players, many from active PvP guilds, that are better geared than me. So it doesn't really work only if you outgear the opponent. The opposite. I find it easier to outplay the enemies and fill the gap of gear with this build.
Works very well vs other GWFs (can kite them, hit-run, footwork beats facetanking in a GWF 1v1), repel-spamming CWs (can sprint more = dodge repel more= get back in melee range fast if repelled= avoid being kited forever), Zooming Warlocks (only way to stay in range of a geared zooming warlock or you'll never reach him), permarooting HRs (more sprint= dodge roots more), dodgy stealth TRs (can more easily pressure them), onerotating GFs (can sprint behind them more or get out of range/ dodge their rotation. Sprint behind-rotate-sprint away, mitigate their monster damage with sprint DR).


BTW, very well done. A BiS GWF sharing his PvP knowledge is a first in 2 years for me.

rayrdan

encounters with charges are not affected by recovery, quite sure of it

icyphish

@rayden not sure if recovery affects all encounters with charges but it does effect HD which is a very important part of this build. My HD recharges every 8-9 sec instead of 12. Combined with BF's dmg bonus its a very nice DPS boost

blackyluke

icyphish wrote: »

@rayden not sure if recovery affects all encounters with charges but it does effect HD which is a very important part of this build. My HD recharges every 8-9 sec instead of 12. Combined with BF's dmg bonus its a very nice DPS boost

Yeah tooltips are bugged and dont show lower CDs sometimes, but HD is indeed effected by Recovery.

pando83 wrote: »

<snip>
BTW, very well done. A BiS GWF sharing his PvP knowledge is a first in 2 years for me.

How is it an advantage to kite or rotate out? If you are not on the node it get's capped. So yes you loose to enemies that have "less mobile" builds and then you CAN run away but how is that a significant strength? (on a side note every gwf has sprint and you can still use that shift no matter what you build)
No offense against people who are not BiS, but if you are not involved in high level pvp and you don't watch every single streamed premade or inhouse how are you able to argue over it?
Im end of M6 and M7 I've never seen either of you in a premade and the times I did encounter pando83 was when he was solo and frankly stood no chance. I don't know which "pvp players" you beat but since you dont give any details there is no argument in it.
The top guilds are Essence, Absolute and arguably Black Turtle Gaming and maybe Daybreak/Midnight Express. The rest is frankly no competition. As you can see there are weak players in every guild, but that doesnt let you extrapolate on well if i can beat this guy in GG that has 1k AIL it means I can just as easily beat people on 4k AIL that are not just casual, saturday evening gamers.

Kiting is HAMSTER. Yes you can dodge certain abilites, no doubt, but there is no in combat regen anymore and if you run the only thing that happens is you don't contest the node or you get picked off anyway.

GWFs damage at least as destroyer has always been coming through buffs. It was like that M2 (ignoring deep gash), M3, M4 and M5 (people played Intimidation, but Destroyer was still a decent pick not in PvP but PvE) and now M6 and M7 everybody plays Destroyer again. At-wills are your main damage tools. Yes burst combos like Daily into IBS are solid and excellent finishers, but At-wills let you lifesteal and win the substain war. What is this kiting, movement speed build going to do if the enemy just has infinite staying power due to superior damage and therefore better lifesteal?

Understanding the vunerabilities of the enemy has always been a crucial point to divide good and bad players in PvP and arugably every other game. If you don't know when to IBS and you use your skills of cooldown you will obviously face poor results. And skills like Hidden Daggers are obviously easier to hit.
Indomitable Battle Strike is still fundamental and can't leave your bar just like Hidden Daggers cannot. It's simply deadly used after Indomitable Strength and if you time it after a dodge or while enemies cast animations IF YOU DO hit it the 20-40k burst on even BiS players (HR,CW,TR,SW other GWFs or GF) will simply leave them too low to win the fight after that.
It also simply forced the enemies to dodge or use defensive mechanics the risk of getting hit by IBS forces enemies in lots of matchups to not simply permanently rotate you down.

It is always nice if people give their opinion, but talking about a sport that you haven't seen or didn't play yourself, lessens the weight of such input down.​​

icyphish

yes this build is slightly disadvantaged fighting stationed high power GWFs, but not by much. However it gives a lot easier time dealing many other classes regardless you do it offensively, defensively or just rushing to help your teammate pressure the enemy.

I have been running premades with PD and Absolute since mod 4 and has stopped a bit after NCL has ended, however I am pretty sure I have fought with most of the top 10 GWFs with very reasonable results, so I am just wondering which one is you....?

vordayn

You, sir, are a very scary opponent to run across. Usually I try to out-kite you (which I can't) or run to the nearest healer - and no I'm not ashamed to say so.

I'm starting up my GWF, and will be looking at your build for some inspiration. Thanks for the build!

blackyluke

Jasmin@blackyluke I play for EoA​​

icyphish

Oh Jasmin, Lancer mentioned about you when he was doing his Power/Crit vs Tenacity test, we were comparing high power/low crit vs midpower/high crit setup and he only mentioned you cus you are a raw power type. I guess we probably play on different timezone and thus I hardly get to see you (I play on Aus), but hopefully we will have our rounds in the future fights once the stupid companion thingie's fixed, I will be doing more premades when the next NCL comes out, see you then

pando83

blackyluke said:

cut​​

I'll not comment much the arrogance your post is filled with.
Will just give again my point of view:

- I responded to your "guys don't fool yourselves this build is only good to slaughter pugs with less gear than you".
You didn't say "it's no good in BiS premades". You said it's not efficient= works only on less geared pugs. I answered
with my experience: i meet all the time players from Rw Force, Daybreak, Midnight, and so on. Now, these guilds are
not your "BiS" EoA-Absolute-BTG (i watch and watched a lot of videos of premade vs premade of these guilds btw)
guilds, but are not pugs either. They are all dedicated PvP guilds with players usually geared at a 3k+ iLvL and all with
the cool toys. Yes, about "not fooling ourselves" we should mention that being "BiS" involves the usage of all the
overperforming enchants such as T.Neg (a bit less this module) and T.Fey, eLoL set. Just to mention a few items. Now,
i play a 2.8k iLvL GWF, i don't use Negation or Fey and i use Lathander set in place of eLoL set, and i can often beat
1v1 players from those guilds and with such gear when i meet them in PvP. Now, even if this is not your BiS scenario,
it shows how Icy build can indeed be effective not just vs "undergeared pugs" but even when you face more geared,
dedicated PvP players.
As i stated above, it only requires more brain and skills than the average raw power "Hulk Smash" GWF build. But it's
effective even if you play vs more geared and dedicated PvPers.
So i didn't say that if i can beat more geared players i can beat 4k BiS players. You wrote that above and it's nowhere in my post. I just stated i can beat more geared players from PvP guilds who are not the average pug, with this build. It's you who stated that the build "only works on pugs with less gear than you". Worng. It works also on dedicated PvPers with more gear than you. From my experience, at least.

- Yes we met in PvP and yes, like for most other BiS GWFs i am no challenge for you and i guess you would be able to
perform better than me using my gear vs a BiS GWF with all the goodies, right?. Lol.

Let's see this.
I made it into top 40 in NCL like this: over 200 games played, solo queue only, never quit, never giving up a match,
2.7k iLvL GWF at the time, using G.SF, P.PF, blue quality mount, all epic gear and artifacts except Legendary Blood
Raven, Lathander set. During module 6 with Negation pre-SH nerf, meeting all the time players using the
Neg-Fey-eLoL-wheel combo with usually something like 3.3k-3.5k iLvL, and facing them with soulforged, plaguefire
and Lathander set.

Which imho is not a bad result... So i think i can humbly say my point of view on a GWF build without some random guy coming in and saying i can't talk cause i'm not "BiS" geared. I always wonder, when after 2 years of PvP experience, someone says me i can't talk cause i don't play premades and don't use the FOTModule gear combo/ build, if they would be able to do the same. Would you make it into NCL top 40 in the same way? I'm sure you can prove that putting on G.SF, P.PF and rank 7s i had at the time+ lathander set or seldarine set in place of eLoL set, and come with me through the whole NCL to see how we perform with different builds but same gear. I think it would be an interesting experience so i can learn something from you.

- "Kiting is ****". I disagree. First, when facing other classes the mobility of this build allows you to hit much more where a classc build is played around more easily. Like a certain BiS GWF in a video, who got kited like an idiot by a less geared CW. Or in general, BiS GWFs in premades spending a ton of time "trying to hit the enemy" until they catch them and almost one-rotate them.
In-out of melee range thanks to sprint is better than facetanking and kiting is important even in a GWF 1v1. Dodiging a IBS through sprint, kiting unstoppable, plus the 25% damage buff from the start of a fight and 30% DR from sprint for longer time.
All GWFs have sprint. Really??? Oh my god i didn't know that. Now let me guess, do all GWFs have double sprint? Nope. Does double sprint, expecially with unfettered strikes and bravery, allow you to kite a sprinting and threat rushing GWF that, otherwise, would glue to your butt and unleash his full damage potential? Yes.
Regeneration is not working in a fight anymore: really? I didn't know!!!!! Thanks for telling me that. Hear this: what if i tell you that exactly because regeneration does not work anymore, the ability to rotate and then kite till you have your rotation up again, out of SS range, IBS range, is very useful exactly because the enemy can't regenerate if you stop attacking, where in the past you got to deal damage non-stop? What if i tell you that it also helps decrease the chances to proc LS since you get hit less?
What if i tell you that once T.Fey is hopefully fixed/ stops overperforming, kiting unstoppable makes it very difficult for Vorpal users to build up DP stacks?

Footwork is important, even in 1v1 fights vs GWFs.

Now, we can argue about which build is more effective but:

- if you treat the other players as if they were just using a "run-away" build without more in-depth thoughts behind their choice

- if you take the time to tell me all GWFs have sprint or about regeneration changes as if i didn't knew about that

then it means you're acting as if you were talking to some "inferior" being and we have nothing to talk about.
I like discussing builds a lot like i did with icy, and learn where i have less knowledge, but not with this kind of attitude. Not if you treat other players who are not at your "BiS" standard like some peasant or random new player.

Stil lcan't believe you took the time to mention me that all GWFs have sprint and stat regeneration does not work in combat anymore...

blackyluke

icyphish wrote: »

Oh Jasmin, Lancer mentioned about you when he was doing his Power/Crit vs Tenacity test, we were comparing high power/low crit vs midpower/high crit setup and he only mentioned you cus you are a raw power type. I guess we probably play on different timezone and thus I hardly get to see you (I play on Aus), but hopefully we will have our rounds in the future fights once the stupid companion thingie's fixed, I will be doing more premades when the next NCL comes out, see you then

I run 50% Crit and about 16k Power in combat. And I play on EU and NA times switching between those. However, I play Domination and mostly premades - no GG.
NCL does only 1 thing and that is bait the casuals into queueing for PvP for the NCL Token rewards. It's effect on actual competition is next to nothing.​​

pando83

blackyluke said:

I run 50% Crit and about 16k Power in combat. And I play on EU and NA times switching between those. However, I play Domination and mostly premades - no GG.

NCL does only 1 thing and that is bait the casuals into queueing for PvP for the NCL Token rewards. It's effect on actual competition is next to nothing.​​

You've a very limited experience then, in my honest opinion.
You think "actual competition" is a 1-game-mode experience where "BiS" players collect what basically is the most overperforming collection of FOTModule gear and build and then proceed to play through coordinated, predetermined schemes. And then call themselves "BiS" and act all high and mighty.
My experience: BiS GWF joins with solo queue, finds a weaker pug group, starts screaming at them orders, get angry and quits (can't say the name on forums but can tell you in private if you want).

My experience and how i made it to NCL top 40: during NCL more people plays, but due to that, the more you go up in the ranking, the harder it gets cause you're pretty much always against other ranked players and some premade. Last match i played when i was in the top 40 was with a pug vs a team of all players who were in the top 40 ranking of their class. If you just think you can rush in and "overpower" the enemy you end up quitting, like many "BiS" players do when they can't win. What i did: i reversed many games by guiding my pug through specific rotations, matching each class with what i thought was the enemy they could face better and optimizing their performance. Result: many games that seemed lost/ unfair were eventually reversed and won, allowing me to stay in the top 40 zone most of the time. Also a lot was done through sacrificing personal "score" to allow the team to win. Something i rarely see when some BiS player solo queue. I've seen Icy do it in GG and some others, but if i have to count the times some BiS player sacrificed and the time they just gave up cause it was a "PuG match".

If you think it's "nothing" and keep acting all high and mighty, then i invite you to replicate what i did: put on a G.Soulforged, a P.Plaguefire, rank 7s and all max epic stuff+ 1 legendary blood raven as "active artifact", lathander set, and then do solo queue the whole NCL, with over 200 games playing till the very last hour (my last match finished 30 minutes before NCL end), and make it to top 40.

Cause i'm sorry but seeing players acting all arrogant this way and trying to belittle what other players achieve, i won't stay silent..
I respect top PvP guilds and premade competition, you seem to look down on everything that is not your "Domination premade" environment.

Now you are invited, in next NCL, to try what i did in previous NCL. We can go together, will be fun.

icyphish

Sorry guys I have forgotten to update the feats, will try to update that in the next day or two

icyphish

Feats updated as requested.

pando83

How much can you hit with SS if you use battle fury buff+ threatening rush mark + daring shout mark + hidden daggers.
Double mark with threatening rush and daring shout seems to make DPS skyrocket. All together BF+ double mark + hidden dagger seems to be a very huge DPS buff and you get double sprint + faster determination + DR bonus all together, increasing survivability, but it means you give up all DPS encounters.

Did you test max-buffed SS only damage vs lesser buffed encounters with 10-11s cooldown?

Also, what about, for Negation+T.Fey users, giving up countless scars (yeah i know it CS is a must have) to get both relentless battle fury and executioner's style, to fill the DPS gap (you start with HD+ BF+ double mark, when the enemy is low HP you add another 30% buff to Sure Strike allowing you to burst faster and finish off the enemy). You compensate countless scars with the increased sprint time (30% DR added).
Might be a viable fast striker build?

schietindebux

I like the build icy shared and run it with my c.rap GWF in PVP since 2 month
I met a lot of no BIS player who performed excellent in relation to the gear
Being BIS only gives you an advatage no skill and I definitely can't agree with ppl who think they do a better job only by wearing BIS
The advantage you get being that mobile is obvious
It's a tactical advatage and helps me a lot
Can't say what happens if Stamina drain gets into account

icyphish

Remember the screenshot I shown you a few months ago with 100k+ dmg in one single hit? That was with the buffs you mentioned, problem is, daring shout is only good in mass group fight to debuff a bunch of ppl for your teammembers to take them out easier, its not useful in small scale fights

Giving up countless scar in exchange for Executioner's Style is a interesting idea and might be worth trying as we might not always get the full 15 stacks of countless in real fights, but maybe splitting 3 countless, 2 executioner or so might be interesting.

Personally I dont think there is any DPS problem with this build, it outputs enough to kill ppl after I switched to STR/DEX stats. Blackyluke said this build does not deal any damage, but I was able to prove him wrong, we had 3 properly rounds the other day, first round he beat me, 2nd round I beat him, 3rd round I hit him with Indomitable Strength and he was 20% HP left laying on the ground, but the lag prevented me to connect my IBS to finish him, either way, it was enough to prove damage is not an issue with this build.

pando83 said:

How much can you hit with SS if you use battle fury buff+ threatening rush mark + daring shout mark + hidden daggers.
Double mark with threatening rush and daring shout seems to make DPS skyrocket. All together BF+ double mark + hidden dagger seems to be a very huge DPS buff and you get double sprint + faster determination + DR bonus all together, increasing survivability, but it means you give up all DPS encounters.

Did you test max-buffed SS only damage vs lesser buffed encounters with 10-11s cooldown?

Also, what about, for Negation+T.Fey users, giving up countless scars (yeah i know it CS is a must have) to get both relentless battle fury and executioner's style, to fill the DPS gap (you start with HD+ BF+ double mark, when the enemy is low HP you add another 30% buff to Sure Strike allowing you to burst faster and finish off the enemy). You compensate countless scars with the increased sprint time (30% DR added).
Might be a viable fast striker build?