It was never mentioned that the group Malcolm Reed worked for was Section 31. It could have been the clandestine organization that became Section 31 or it was just another person that used that specific section in the Starfleet Charter to justify their actions. All that was mentioned was Starfleet Charter, Article 14, Section 31.
Another possibility is that Section 31 has never existed. It could be just a fictional organization that Starfleet Intelligence uses when they need to do something extremely shady. So if anyone is caught, then they can just blame the culprits as members of a rogue Starfleet organization instead of being an authorized Starfleet Intelligence operation.
In any event confirmation or not, i've included him all the same as section 31.
One thing that piqued my interest this episode is the Section 31 operative who recruited Phillipa mentioning "Control" being interested in Ash's skills.
While this is usually a fairly generic term used to refer to leadership without naming them, in beta-canon "Control" is also the name of a powerful AI born out of a United Earth surveillance program called Uraei. Uraei was ultimately responsible for manipulating the events that created Section 31, and during the events of the novels, which are set between Nemesis and the Hobus Supernova, the "Control" AI ultimately set into the motion the organizations destruction as it had outlived it usefulness.
Could be a generic term for the upper command structure of section 31, if it is so secret it would have to be decentralized, like cells, there could be many different cells working on projects for the organisation but they aren't aware of each others existence and each cell reports to a specific individual or individuals.
If we are looking at an individual code named "Control", there could be others code named "Archangel", "Omega" or some other name. It would make sense to keep anonymity and greatly reduce the chances of getting caught and knowing any information, more so if the individual has a way of hiding who they are while being able to listen to reports and ordering new projects.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Where was section 31 during the Klingon war? One Georgiou with holographic Klingon mask, attack drones, a jelly gun and a pot of bugged facepaint could have won the entire war on her own. S31 can - apparently - fly all the way to Q'onos and back - completely undetected. Another ability that could have proven to be rather useful during the war. And Stamets sucks a ghost mushroom tumor out of Tilly, using a proton pack, I mean, vacuum cleaner, and traps it in a forcefield.. Are we really still talking about Star Trek here?
However, not everything was bad. Tilly was amazing in this episode. This character could have so much potential of only they stopped using her as a comic relief sidekick. Amanda too was amazing in this episode. A stellar performance by both actresses.
The most reasonable explanation for what "Section 31" is: it's the black ops part of Federation intelligence, the guys that do things that are typically considered illegal. They don't fight wars. Anonymity is part of what gives them the ability to do what they do.
Section 31's primary goal is to protect the Federation using all means necessary. The Federation was facing defeat. The Sol system was about to fall. I don't think anonymity still mattered in this situation.
Where was section 31 during the Klingon war? One Georgiou with holographic Klingon mask, attack drones, a jelly gun and a pot of bugged facepaint could have won the entire war on her own. S31 can - apparently - fly all the way to Q'onos and back - completely undetected. Another ability that could have proven to be rather useful during the war. And Stamets sucks a ghost mushroom tumor out of Tilly, using a proton pack, I mean, vacuum cleaner, and traps it in a forcefield.. Are we really still talking about Star Trek here?
However, not everything was bad. Tilly was amazing in this episode. This character could have so much potential of only they stopped using her as a comic relief sidekick. Amanda too was amazing in this episode. A stellar performance by both actresses.
The most reasonable explanation for what "Section 31" is: it's the black ops part of Federation intelligence, the guys that do things that are typically considered illegal. They don't fight wars. Anonymity is part of what gives them the ability to do what they do.
Section 31's primary goal is to protect the Federation using all means necessary. The Federation was facing defeat. The Sol system was about to fall. I don't think anonymity still mattered in this situation.
Even defeated i doubt section 31 would just cave into the Klingons demands, it would just make them more inclined to set off a bomb on Qo'nos that would not only destroy the planet but wipe out most of the klingon race at the same time. These are people who go to extremes to make their point. Anonymity would still matter so they can't be identified until it was far too late to do anything about it.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
If it is not on screen, then it is not canon. Harris' organization might be Section 31 or it might be some other organization that either is dismantled or becomes Section 31. It doesn't matter that the production staff say that Harris' organization is Section 31, if it is not explicitly stated in Enterprise, then we don't know if it is Section 31 or not. We can only believe that it is Section 31 or not. (...)
I get what you are saying, but this is just full of it. Yes, canon may be reqritten and things invalidated, but at this point claiming "we don't know" is just ridiculous. That's taking the "on-screen canon" rule a bit too literally. Some things can just be filled in by common sense, especially if you know the production's intention. It doesn't matter how much you create arguments why this organization could be different from S31, but it's obvious that it is AND your theory will never count as you already know that it's supposed to be S31 and that will not change.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
If it is not on screen, then it is not canon. Harris' organization might be Section 31 or it might be some other organization that either is dismantled or becomes Section 31. It doesn't matter that the production staff say that Harris' organization is Section 31, if it is not explicitly stated in Enterprise, then we don't know if it is Section 31 or not. We can only believe that it is Section 31 or not. (...)
I get what you are saying, but this is just full of it. Yes, canon may be reqritten and things invalidated, but at this point claiming "we don't know" is just ridiculous. That's taking the "on-screen canon" rule a bit too literally. Some things can just be filled in by common sense, especially if you know the production's intention. It doesn't matter how much you create arguments why this organization could be different from S31, but it's obvious that it is AND your theory will never count as you already know that it's supposed to be S31 and that will not change.
Plus, Word of God counts almost equal to onscreen canon. Onscreen canon does take precedent if it directly contradicts Word of God, but Enterprise never stated that the name of the organization was something other than Section 31.
Given the preponderance of onscreen evidence to say that it was Section 31, the fact that Word of God says it's Section 31, and no canonical contradiction of the Word of God, then Malcolm Reed was, indeed, a part of Section 31.
Basically, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck and an ornithological expert says it's a duck, you can't just say it's not a duck and expect to be right.
Space Barbie Extraordinaire. Got a question about Space Barbie? Just ask.
Things I want in STO:
1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
Never thought i'd see the day powerful klingons who are used to blood sports and war would ever act surprised and appear to be disgusted to see a fake babies head on display.
Because it's dishonourable act?
The episode was okay.
Klingons bore me. Martok is the only one who's ever felt like a character (excluding Worf and Tores who don't count)
L'Rell sounds like she has a mouth full of cotton wool, even worse than S1.
Kol's dad was great. He's kept the same look as Kol (who was always the best looking of the S1 Klingons) but has hair and proves there's no major issue with the look of the DSCS1 that can't be fixed with hair. His nanite war paint was a clever idea.
On the other hand there was zero reason to acknowledge the change in the hair situation.
The D7 is not a new ship, it was in ENT and the United Imperial logo was in both ENT and DSCS1.
Amazingly enough D7 has only ever been used to describe the TMP style ship seen here in DSC and in VGR. D5 was the designation used to refer to the TOS Battlecruiser seen in TAS (and TOS). Onscreen dialogue trumps BtS material so STO needs to rename their ships accordingly.
The Emperor should have been executed by the Federation, not hired. Though KT Marcus did hire a WWIII dictator (or somebody claiming to be him) so it's not out of character for S31. I doubt I'll watch the spin-off. I dislike fascists.
L'Rell's costume is eye wateringly hideous. It clashes with her skin colour. Her makeup is hideous as well. She looks like those TNGS1 Klingons where they stuck all the makeup on the tops of the actors heads and left their faces human looking. Her early S1 face was better when she actually had ridges on her cheeks and chin.
The Spock stuff is dragging and Burnham seemed to connect more to Sarek than Amanda despite her apparent closeness to the latter.
I'm certain Sarek's ship was blown up in S1. How then would Burnham recognise it?
I hated the camera angles. Pointless and makes everything look fake.
OF all the issues with DSC S1 Klingons they fixed the elongated heads on some of them but left it on others? The fact that L'Rell was reduced makes it a retcon not an in-universe change so why keep any of them? Also, why keep the stupid melted ears?
Seeing DSC Klingons with TOS style facial hair is hilarious but a vast improvement over TNG-ENT where every single Klingon had the same hair and beard.
The S31 ship looks quite TOS and quite TMP in shape. On the outside anyway. The inside is polluted with the bloody blue filter form DSCS1 which means no details can be made out.
L'rell and Voq's child is the Albino from DS9. I've seen it spelt out on Reddit and it was a vibe I got from the episode. Specifically the feud with House Kor.
S31 is and always has been an official part of Starfleet. DS9 makes it clear by the amount of control they have over Admirals and Starfleet Medical. ID makes it clear as the head of Starfleet is also head of S31 and it has the resources to build a dreadnought in the Sol system, ENT makes it explicit it was built into Starfleet from the beginning, and DSC shows some members of Starfleet recognise the branch. Only olympic level stretching could continue the fanfiction they are not part of Starfleet.
I hope this capitulation to fanbois doesn't mean the fantastic Klingon ships like the bortaS bir continue to be used. As they've kept the DSCS1 Klingons around and just made it clear they exist alongside other types I'm hopeful they don't do an ENT and just clone TNG to appease those that favour stagnation.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Never thought i'd see the day powerful klingons who are used to blood sports and war would ever act surprised and appear to be disgusted to see a fake babies head on display.
Because it's dishonourable act?
When has that ever stopped a Klingon to stand in disgust before? it can make them angry but dishonor applies about as much meaning as honor with Klingons, it is such a broad scope to know what really gets to Klingons and where one starts and the other ends.
About the only thing that will get to Klingons (even with Worf) are soft things, soft emotions and so on and generally being too well mannered. Klingons get unnerved by such things but that is a long way from that head on display though. This is why i brought it up, i can't explain how such a race that revels in blood and war would be so concerned with a single babys head.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Never thought i'd see the day powerful klingons who are used to blood sports and war would ever act surprised and appear to be disgusted to see a fake babies head on display.
Because it's dishonourable act?
When has that ever stopped a Klingon to stand in disgust before?
When has it ever happened before? When has a Klingon killed a infant in order to tell how they would react? Worf was kicked out because of the dishonour of his father. Klingons still set a lot in store by honour even if they only pay lip service to it in their actual behaviour.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I'm certain Sarek's ship was blown up in S1. How then would Burnham recognise it?
Maybe she knows he has a good insurance, and the ship is the most logical ship for a Vulcan Ambassador, so he'd never get a new one from the insurance (non)money.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
or, you know...it was the same class as the old ship and vulcan is the site of a major shipyard...obviously, he built another one!
But it's a generic design. I can buy the old one might have had some scratched panels she recognised as Sareks but this is a new one. So unless Sarek has a garage full of Solkar classes he customises there's no way Burnham could know it was his. Especially as it wasn't transmitting and signals or replying in anyway.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
well, the way things are going, we'll probably find out burnham's a limited telepath or something like that and living among vulcans or the encounter with the totally-not-an-iconian 'red angel' during the mission on the hiawatha 'brought it out' and she could feel him aboard the ship
or the writers just goofed, but someone's going to bring it up and they'll try to spin it that way instead of just admitting they goofed
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Vulcans have the force now and Michael's soul is linked and they can feel each other. I'm just waiting for Spock to fire lightning from his finger tips.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
well, the way things are going, we'll probably find out burnham's a limited telepath or something like that and living among vulcans or the encounter with the totally-not-an-iconian 'red angel' during the mission on the hiawatha 'brought it out' and she could feel him aboard the ship
or the writers just goofed, but someone's going to bring it up and they'll try to spin it that way instead of just admitting they goofed
In TOS it was established that some Humans ARE naturally telepathic, it's just an exceptionally rare mutation. Miranda Jones is one example. But the reason WHY Gary Mitchell developed the terrifying powers that he did was that he had latent psionic potential. Seriously, some time between ENT and TOS Starfleet developed a method to measure psionic aptitude and included it as part of the medical exam for Starfleet personnel.
So the idea that Burnham was BORN with psionic potential isn't out of the question.
it's not the thought of burnhan being psionic in itself that makes me roll my eyes...it's that ON TOP of everything else she can already do, apparently better than people who have devoted their entire lives or career to it
which is why i SERIOUSLY hope they don't end up pulling that...discovery's starting off good with its second season - no need to throw back in the crapper with yet another burnham special
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I'd say Burnham is the weak link of the main cast but considering that she, Ensign ADHD, Doctor Shroom, and Saru (Saru's cool, he doesn't get a nickname) are the only main cast so far that's not exactly a large sample size.
Seriously Discovery, learn from DS9 not TOS.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
it's not the thought of burnhan being psionic in itself that makes me roll my eyes...it's that ON TOP of everything else she can already do, apparently better than people who have devoted their entire lives or career to it
So how old is Burnham and what has she done academically?
not like telepathy has any limits on range, given it's still a fringe scientific concept, so...one can make up whatever rules they want for it as long as it's still recognizable as telepathy at its core
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Telepathy is not fringe science it's science fiction.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
As far as Voq's son is concerned, the Boreth Monastery is where the Kahless clone is created in TNG by the Followers of Kahless and there is a terrorist called The Albino in DS9 where he infected the first born sons of Kor, Koloth, and Kang and is later killed with the help of Dax. There is no evidence that the Albino was ever on Boreth and only mentioned due to Voq's son being an albino.
Heh, there's no evidence whatsoever who the Albino was or where he came from
True enough. The only other Albino Klingons we know of is Voq and Voq's son. So it is possible that Voq's son is the Albino, but that is just speculation.
Heh, there's no evidence whatsoever who the Albino was or where he came from
Not in DS9 no. But DSC offers evidence the Albino can be used to conclude.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
it's not the thought of burnhan being psionic in itself that makes me roll my eyes...it's that ON TOP of everything else she can already do, apparently better than people who have devoted their entire lives or career to it
So how old is Burnham and what has she done academically?
didn't you watch the first season? she's the smartest Evar.
To summarize: you didn't pay attention and made a derisive tirade because you don't really know.
I think there was a character who made a mistake that cost the lives of thousands, was stripped of their rank and position as punishment for it and learnt from their mistakes by preventing the same mistake from being recommited by the end of the series.
If only I could remember their name...
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I think there was a character who made a mistake that cost the lives of thousands..
Only, it did not. Her mutiny did not cost a single life. T'kuvma wanted a war against the Federation to unite the Klingon houses. And he used Georgiou's "we come in peace" as proof that the Federation was diametrically opposed to the Klingon way of life and Klingon identiy.
Unless you can think of a scenario in which Burnham remained loyal and the war would not have started.. I can't think of any.
I think there was a character who made a mistake that cost the lives of thousands..
Only, it did not. Her mutiny did not cost a single life. T'kuvma wanted a war against the Federation to unite the Klingon houses. And he used Georgiou's "we come in peace" as proof that the Federation was diametrically opposed to the Klingon way of life and Klingon identiy.
Unless you can think of a scenario in which Burnham remained loyal and the war would not have started.. I can't think of any.
Personally, I believe it to be the hesitation that caused the war rather than the actions of Burnham. Destroy T'Kuvma's ship and he is killed before he becomes a martyr. Sacrifice the Shenzhou by not firing a single shot and T'Kuvma has to rely on some other method to get his war. So sacrificing the Shenzhou and everyone on board would have Burnham stay loyal and the war would not have started on that day. Of course, Burnham and the Shenzhou would have been destroyed, but that is a small sacrifice for peace.
The Vulcan Hello only worked because there was no hesitation. It was sacrifice the first ship and destroy any Klingons that they encountered after the first sacrificed ship until the Klingons finally learned how to communicate.
In a civilian context, someone acting like Burnham did, would have been fired, and held liable for anything stemming from their actions (Sued by their former employer most likely, and if people died? such a person would find themselves on a collection of wrongful death lawsuits as well.)
In a military context, her actions, which are in direct violation not only of mere regulations, but also law, make her responsible for the outcome.
She violated both law and regulation, she violated orders, spacers lost their lives, it's her fault both legally, and morally, regardless of the intent of T'kuvma.
And this is why she was in prison garb and only became a free woman when she stopped the Federation-Klingon War. If Starfleet won the war on their own, then Burnham would have been back in chains. Only the power of a Mary Sue could have saved her from years in prison.
Didn't realGeorgieu say Michael has been her 'number one' for years?
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
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In any event confirmation or not, i've included him all the same as section 31.
Could be a generic term for the upper command structure of section 31, if it is so secret it would have to be decentralized, like cells, there could be many different cells working on projects for the organisation but they aren't aware of each others existence and each cell reports to a specific individual or individuals.
If we are looking at an individual code named "Control", there could be others code named "Archangel", "Omega" or some other name. It would make sense to keep anonymity and greatly reduce the chances of getting caught and knowing any information, more so if the individual has a way of hiding who they are while being able to listen to reports and ordering new projects.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Section 31's primary goal is to protect the Federation using all means necessary. The Federation was facing defeat. The Sol system was about to fall. I don't think anonymity still mattered in this situation.
Even defeated i doubt section 31 would just cave into the Klingons demands, it would just make them more inclined to set off a bomb on Qo'nos that would not only destroy the planet but wipe out most of the klingon race at the same time. These are people who go to extremes to make their point. Anonymity would still matter so they can't be identified until it was far too late to do anything about it.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I get what you are saying, but this is just full of it. Yes, canon may be reqritten and things invalidated, but at this point claiming "we don't know" is just ridiculous. That's taking the "on-screen canon" rule a bit too literally. Some things can just be filled in by common sense, especially if you know the production's intention. It doesn't matter how much you create arguments why this organization could be different from S31, but it's obvious that it is AND your theory will never count as you already know that it's supposed to be S31 and that will not change.
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Plus, Word of God counts almost equal to onscreen canon. Onscreen canon does take precedent if it directly contradicts Word of God, but Enterprise never stated that the name of the organization was something other than Section 31.
Given the preponderance of onscreen evidence to say that it was Section 31, the fact that Word of God says it's Section 31, and no canonical contradiction of the Word of God, then Malcolm Reed was, indeed, a part of Section 31.
Basically, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck and an ornithological expert says it's a duck, you can't just say it's not a duck and expect to be right.
Things I want in STO:
1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
Because it's dishonourable act?
The episode was okay.
- Klingons bore me. Martok is the only one who's ever felt like a character (excluding Worf and Tores who don't count)
- L'Rell sounds like she has a mouth full of cotton wool, even worse than S1.
- Kol's dad was great. He's kept the same look as Kol (who was always the best looking of the S1 Klingons) but has hair and proves there's no major issue with the look of the DSCS1 that can't be fixed with hair. His nanite war paint was a clever idea.
- On the other hand there was zero reason to acknowledge the change in the hair situation.
- The D7 is not a new ship, it was in ENT and the United Imperial logo was in both ENT and DSCS1.
- Amazingly enough D7 has only ever been used to describe the TMP style ship seen here in DSC and in VGR. D5 was the designation used to refer to the TOS Battlecruiser seen in TAS (and TOS). Onscreen dialogue trumps BtS material so STO needs to rename their ships accordingly.
- The Emperor should have been executed by the Federation, not hired. Though KT Marcus did hire a WWIII dictator (or somebody claiming to be him) so it's not out of character for S31. I doubt I'll watch the spin-off. I dislike fascists.
- L'Rell's costume is eye wateringly hideous. It clashes with her skin colour. Her makeup is hideous as well. She looks like those TNGS1 Klingons where they stuck all the makeup on the tops of the actors heads and left their faces human looking. Her early S1 face was better when she actually had ridges on her cheeks and chin.
- The Spock stuff is dragging and Burnham seemed to connect more to Sarek than Amanda despite her apparent closeness to the latter.
- I'm certain Sarek's ship was blown up in S1. How then would Burnham recognise it?
- I hated the camera angles. Pointless and makes everything look fake.
- OF all the issues with DSC S1 Klingons they fixed the elongated heads on some of them but left it on others? The fact that L'Rell was reduced makes it a retcon not an in-universe change so why keep any of them? Also, why keep the stupid melted ears?
- Seeing DSC Klingons with TOS style facial hair is hilarious but a vast improvement over TNG-ENT where every single Klingon had the same hair and beard.
- The S31 ship looks quite TOS and quite TMP in shape. On the outside anyway. The inside is polluted with the bloody blue filter form DSCS1 which means no details can be made out.
- L'rell and Voq's child is the Albino from DS9. I've seen it spelt out on Reddit and it was a vibe I got from the episode. Specifically the feud with House Kor.
- S31 is and always has been an official part of Starfleet. DS9 makes it clear by the amount of control they have over Admirals and Starfleet Medical. ID makes it clear as the head of Starfleet is also head of S31 and it has the resources to build a dreadnought in the Sol system, ENT makes it explicit it was built into Starfleet from the beginning, and DSC shows some members of Starfleet recognise the branch. Only olympic level stretching could continue the fanfiction they are not part of Starfleet.
- I hope this capitulation to fanbois doesn't mean the fantastic Klingon ships like the bortaS bir continue to be used. As they've kept the DSCS1 Klingons around and just made it clear they exist alongside other types I'm hopeful they don't do an ENT and just clone TNG to appease those that favour stagnation.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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When has that ever stopped a Klingon to stand in disgust before? it can make them angry but dishonor applies about as much meaning as honor with Klingons, it is such a broad scope to know what really gets to Klingons and where one starts and the other ends.
About the only thing that will get to Klingons (even with Worf) are soft things, soft emotions and so on and generally being too well mannered. Klingons get unnerved by such things but that is a long way from that head on display though. This is why i brought it up, i can't explain how such a race that revels in blood and war would be so concerned with a single babys head.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
When has it ever happened before? When has a Klingon killed a infant in order to tell how they would react? Worf was kicked out because of the dishonour of his father. Klingons still set a lot in store by honour even if they only pay lip service to it in their actual behaviour.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
But it's a generic design. I can buy the old one might have had some scratched panels she recognised as Sareks but this is a new one. So unless Sarek has a garage full of Solkar classes he customises there's no way Burnham could know it was his. Especially as it wasn't transmitting and signals or replying in anyway.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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well, the way things are going, we'll probably find out burnham's a limited telepath or something like that and living among vulcans or the encounter with the totally-not-an-iconian 'red angel' during the mission on the hiawatha 'brought it out' and she could feel him aboard the ship
or the writers just goofed, but someone's going to bring it up and they'll try to spin it that way instead of just admitting they goofed
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
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So the idea that Burnham was BORN with psionic potential isn't out of the question.
My character Tsin'xing
which is why i SERIOUSLY hope they don't end up pulling that...discovery's starting off good with its second season - no need to throw back in the crapper with yet another burnham special
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Seriously Discovery, learn from DS9 not TOS.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
My character Tsin'xing
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
My character Tsin'xing
True enough. The only other Albino Klingons we know of is Voq and Voq's son. So it is possible that Voq's son is the Albino, but that is just speculation.
Not in DS9 no. But DSC offers evidence the Albino can be used to conclude.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
My character Tsin'xing
If only I could remember their name...
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Only, it did not. Her mutiny did not cost a single life. T'kuvma wanted a war against the Federation to unite the Klingon houses. And he used Georgiou's "we come in peace" as proof that the Federation was diametrically opposed to the Klingon way of life and Klingon identiy.
Unless you can think of a scenario in which Burnham remained loyal and the war would not have started.. I can't think of any.
Personally, I believe it to be the hesitation that caused the war rather than the actions of Burnham. Destroy T'Kuvma's ship and he is killed before he becomes a martyr. Sacrifice the Shenzhou by not firing a single shot and T'Kuvma has to rely on some other method to get his war. So sacrificing the Shenzhou and everyone on board would have Burnham stay loyal and the war would not have started on that day. Of course, Burnham and the Shenzhou would have been destroyed, but that is a small sacrifice for peace.
The Vulcan Hello only worked because there was no hesitation. It was sacrifice the first ship and destroy any Klingons that they encountered after the first sacrificed ship until the Klingons finally learned how to communicate.
And this is why she was in prison garb and only became a free woman when she stopped the Federation-Klingon War. If Starfleet won the war on their own, then Burnham would have been back in chains. Only the power of a Mary Sue could have saved her from years in prison.
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