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Tomorrow: Endevour/Admiralty pass tokens will ONLY be available for dilithium

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  • corinthalascorinthalas Member Posts: 2,081 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    Admiralty generates piles of credits and dil, so making people pay dil to optimize their speed of grinding it is a good choice.

    Endeavors are 100% optional so making people pay dil because they insist on being able to level it every day seems fine to me too.

    2,500 dil per roll or pass seems fine to me too. I probably won't buy either but I don't farm dil so I'm not really part of the dil-flation problem.

    No, as has already been pointed out, the change to admiralty pass tokens is stupid. You're spending a *greater* amount of *refined* dilithium to get a *lesser* amount of *ORE* back. Players aren't going to make that trade. Not only do you get nothing for your spent dilithium, you're *LOSING* dilithium for that nothing.

    If no one bites then they might lower the cost.

    No one including the devs is expecting this to fix the dil market by itself, this is just something to try to help a bit while they work to add more and better sinks.

    Finding 10 little sinks might be more realistic than looking for one silver bullet sink.

    Even 100 dilithium per token is too high. It's spending *refined* dilithium, in exchange for a lesser amount of *unrefined* dilithium back. The dilithium cost per token has to be so low that it might as well cost nothing at all (back to being random rewards from admiralty missions). So what's even the point of that? There are a hundred other, better ways I could better spend my time if I want xp or EC. And none of them cost me refined dilithium either -- most, in fact, reward dilithium ore, too.

    I spend my dilithium to *GET* something. This is spending dilithium to get less than nothing.
  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    i'm not concerned by these modifications, because I don't use admiralty and endeavours all the time, only when I want or motivated. Admiralty is too boring to do it all the time and for the endeavours, I take my time, if i'm not intested by something or I don't want to do them, then I do something else.
    I'm rather skeptical, but something must be tried
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 4,301 Arc User
    The problem with their dil sinks so far is that every time they come up with a new one the almost immediately abandon it, and often put a better zen sink in to compete with it.

    Take the phoenix tokens for instance, the upgrade tokens are probably the best dil sink they have currently, but the rest of the phoenix store is getting undermined by Mudds, especially when it comes to ships and worthwhile gear. In fact the odds of getting epic tokens are so bad that it really isn't an incentive, and the odds for UR are almost as bad.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 3,328 Arc User
    askatus wrote: »
    OK who had "make us pay for stuff we currently get for free" as their dil sink suggestion?

    If it had been *let* people by tokens with dil, I'd have been behind that change. I rarely run low on those things personally, but I know a lot of people can never get enough. This, though? I'm worried that if it's even moderately successful they might start charging for something I do care about.

    I'm sceptical about how much dil this is going to sink, but I guess Cryptic knows how many of these things get used in a day

    Giving the option to let players buy them with dilithium would have been better indeed.

    Taking away the ability to obtain them for free (we still had to complete missions for them) isn't nice.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • corinthalascorinthalas Member Posts: 2,081 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    I know 2500 dil per pass token OVERPRICED!
    That's not overpriced at all, if anything it's UNDER priced. 2500 dil is only 5 zen right now, 10 zen if we ever get back to a 250 exchange rate (unlikely). I personally will be spending a ton on this, I've always been stingy with my reroll tokens since until now they've been hard to get (I'd rather suffer through a ground based endeavor than find myself with no tokens to reroll a voth battlezone endeavor the next day). Once this goes live though I will be rerolling a TON, in fact I may never do another ground endeavor again.

    I see you subscribe to the "I'll pay you $5 for a nickle" school of thought. It's not about how 'expensive' the tokens are. It's what you *GET* for them. And what you *GET* for them is worth *LESS* than the cost of the token. By at least a couple orders of magnitudes...
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 3,328 Arc User
    i'm not concerned by these modifications, because I don't use admiralty and endeavours all the time, only when I want or motivated. Admiralty is too boring to do it all the time and for the endeavours, I take my time, if i'm not intested by something or I don't want to do them, then I do something else.
    I'm rather skeptical, but something must be tried

    They could have tried - adding - something to the game, instead of taking away things. But of course, that would require some actual effort to improve the game.

    Far easier to just remove some rewards and then watch what little effort you put in being made undone by the next promo release. Or indeed, another Mudd pack that largely undid the effect of the very nice dilithium sink we had in the Phoenix store.


    (And yes, they may still add something to the game. Later on. Until they do, I'll judge this decision with the knowledge we have now.)
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • boraes#4236 boraes Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    This is a purely profit driven venture to encourage ppl to pay for zen and change it into dil to skip things. I pay for a chunk of zen pretty much every month so I'm happy to pay for extras and things. I already find that the pay outs for lock boxes to be getting worse and now this?

    This in no way enhances user gaming experience, nor gives any benefit to the game mechanics. All this does is make the game more of a pay to play environment.

    Just very disappointed is all :(

  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 3,328 Arc User
    This is a purely profit driven venture to encourage ppl to pay for zen and change it into dil to skip things. I pay for a chunk of zen pretty much every month so I'm happy to pay for extras and things. I already find that the pay outs for lock boxes to be getting worse and now this?

    This in no way enhances user gaming experience, nor gives any benefit to the game mechanics. All this does is make the game more of a pay to play environment.

    Just very disappointed is all :(

    I'm thinking the same thing.

    Everything (events, queue releases, episodes, new systems) has to be turned into a daily grinding task these days. And now they're taking away the things that at least let players choose what kind of grindy stuff they wanted to do.

    It's not beneficial for player enjoyment. At least not mine.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,774 Arc User
    It's not about how 'expensive' the tokens are. It's what you *GET* for them. And what you *GET* for them is worth *LESS* than the cost of the token. By at least a couple orders of magnitudes...
    I literally could not disagree with you on this any more than I do now, you are flat out wrong if you think an endeavor reroll token is worth less than 2500 dil or 5-10 zen. I've been wishing for MONTHS that I could spend significantly more zen than this to be able to buy more because I hate, hate, HATE ground combat in this game and reroll tokens had a ridiculously low drop rate. In fact the only reason I can think of for the price being this mind-bogglingly LOW is to compensate for the loss of free reroll tokens.
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  • vegeta50024vegeta50024 Member Posts: 2,304 Arc User
    Admiralty generates piles of credits and dil, so making people pay dil to optimize their speed of grinding it is a good choice.

    Endeavors are 100% optional so making people pay dil because they insist on being able to level it every day seems fine to me too.

    2,500 dil per roll or pass seems fine to me too. I probably won't buy either but I don't farm dil so I'm not really part of the dil-flation problem.

    No, as has already been pointed out, the change to admiralty pass tokens is stupid. You're spending a *greater* amount of *refined* dilithium to get a *lesser* amount of *ORE* back. Players aren't going to make that trade. Not only do you get nothing for your spent dilithium, you're *LOSING* dilithium for that nothing.

    If no one bites then they might lower the cost.

    No one including the devs is expecting this to fix the dil market by itself, this is just something to try to help a bit while they work to add more and better sinks.

    Finding 10 little sinks might be more realistic than looking for one silver bullet sink.

    Even 100 dilithium per token is too high. It's spending *refined* dilithium, in exchange for a lesser amount of *unrefined* dilithium back. The dilithium cost per token has to be so low that it might as well cost nothing at all (back to being random rewards from admiralty missions). So what's even the point of that? There are a hundred other, better ways I could better spend my time if I want xp or EC. And none of them cost me refined dilithium either -- most, in fact, reward dilithium ore, too.

    I spend my dilithium to *GET* something. This is spending dilithium to get less than nothing.

    I had a thought while reading the comments. What if they're thinking people use the admiralty system (particularly the Ferengi track) to earn the dilithium bonus pool? You know, the one that gives you a bonus to your dilithium gains until you run out? Yes, I know it's every 10 days running it, assuming you get the tour of duty mission every day, but depending on how long someone plays, what if they wind up running with that bonus pool consistently? If they're maxing the refine cap daily, that's a bunch of dilithium flowing in.

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  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    The problem with their dil sinks so far is that every time they come up with a new one the almost immediately abandon it, and often put a better zen sink in to compete with it.

    Take the phoenix tokens for instance, the upgrade tokens are probably the best dil sink they have currently, but the rest of the phoenix store is getting undermined by Mudds, especially when it comes to ships and worthwhile gear. In fact the odds of getting epic tokens are so bad that it really isn't an incentive, and the odds for UR are almost as bad.

    the bio-engineered furiadon in the phoenix store at Ultra rare would have been a big dil sink. this dino is useful, cool and funny. And the chance of getting an UR token like you said, is so small that this dino would have siphoned a huge amount of dilithium. Because players like pets and combat-pets.
  • askatusaskatus Member Posts: 157 Arc User
    It's not about how 'expensive' the tokens are. It's what you *GET* for them. And what you *GET* for them is worth *LESS* than the cost of the token. By at least a couple orders of magnitudes...
    I literally could not disagree with you on this any more than I do now, you are flat out wrong if you think an endeavor reroll token is worth less than 2500 dil or 5-10 zen. I've been wishing for MONTHS that I could spend significantly more zen than this to be able to buy more because I hate, hate, HATE ground combat in this game and reroll tokens had a ridiculously low drop rate. In fact the only reason I can think of for the price being this mind-bogglingly LOW is to compensate for the loss of free reroll tokens.

    I think the two of you are talking about different things, and I kind of agree with you both. Endeavor reroll tokens would be worth it to some people. Admiralty skip tokens, I can't see the market for.
    You shoot me down
    But I respawn
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  • bigblackafricabigblackafrica Member Posts: 114 Arc User
    I don't hate this as a dil sink, but making it the only way to get tokens is lame. At first I was like :) , but then :s
  • corinthalascorinthalas Member Posts: 2,081 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    askatus wrote: »
    It's not about how 'expensive' the tokens are. It's what you *GET* for them. And what you *GET* for them is worth *LESS* than the cost of the token. By at least a couple orders of magnitudes...
    I literally could not disagree with you on this any more than I do now, you are flat out wrong if you think an endeavor reroll token is worth less than 2500 dil or 5-10 zen. I've been wishing for MONTHS that I could spend significantly more zen than this to be able to buy more because I hate, hate, HATE ground combat in this game and reroll tokens had a ridiculously low drop rate. In fact the only reason I can think of for the price being this mind-bogglingly LOW is to compensate for the loss of free reroll tokens.

    I think the two of you are talking about different things, and I kind of agree with you both. Endeavor reroll tokens would be worth it to some people. Admiralty skip tokens, I can't see the market for.

    Yeah. I'm not as opposed to the endeavor tokens for dilithium, even though most endeavors I don't mind doing. But admiralty tokens for dilithium? They're practically worthless for what you get out of them... so much so that, like I said, they'd have to be priced low enough that they might as well not even bother selling them but giving them away, like they already were. If they were looking for places to add dilithium sinks to the admiralty system, they completely missed the mark. Assignment completion tokens, instant ship repair tokens, daily-xp cap resets. Those three came to me right off the top of my head as areas that make sense for players to want to spend dilithium to speed the system up. But not pass tokens. They don't address any of that.
  • bubblegirl2015bubblegirl2015 Member Posts: 820 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    I use the endeavor re-roll tokens like candies. Could care less for admiralty since those never helped much and just use the shuttle method.
    These endeavor re-roll tokens are too pricey. As others said would have been better if they can sell 10 per that pricey 2500 or have some 50% discount sale to start with. This is a turn off not an incentive.
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  • askatusaskatus Member Posts: 157 Arc User
    Admiralty generates piles of credits and dil, so making people pay dil to optimize their speed of grinding it is a good choice.

    Endeavors are 100% optional so making people pay dil because they insist on being able to level it every day seems fine to me too.

    2,500 dil per roll or pass seems fine to me too. I probably won't buy either but I don't farm dil so I'm not really part of the dil-flation problem.

    No, as has already been pointed out, the change to admiralty pass tokens is stupid. You're spending a *greater* amount of *refined* dilithium to get a *lesser* amount of *ORE* back. Players aren't going to make that trade. Not only do you get nothing for your spent dilithium, you're *LOSING* dilithium for that nothing.

    If no one bites then they might lower the cost.

    No one including the devs is expecting this to fix the dil market by itself, this is just something to try to help a bit while they work to add more and better sinks.

    Finding 10 little sinks might be more realistic than looking for one silver bullet sink.

    Even 100 dilithium per token is too high. It's spending *refined* dilithium, in exchange for a lesser amount of *unrefined* dilithium back. The dilithium cost per token has to be so low that it might as well cost nothing at all (back to being random rewards from admiralty missions). So what's even the point of that? There are a hundred other, better ways I could better spend my time if I want xp or EC. And none of them cost me refined dilithium either -- most, in fact, reward dilithium ore, too.

    I spend my dilithium to *GET* something. This is spending dilithium to get less than nothing.

    I had a thought while reading the comments. What if they're thinking people use the admiralty system (particularly the Ferengi track) to earn the dilithium bonus pool? You know, the one that gives you a bonus to your dilithium gains until you run out? Yes, I know it's every 10 days running it, assuming you get the tour of duty mission every day, but depending on how long someone plays, what if they wind up running with that bonus pool consistently? If they're maxing the refine cap daily, that's a bunch of dilithium flowing in.

    I remember a time when I actually had to work for my 8k/day dilithium ore to refine. But then came reputations, and then more reputations, and the Voth sphere, and admiralty, and endeavours, and events payouts... and now I don't even have to try to make that much dil ore in a day. Do the event, do the endeavours, and I'm sorted. I long ago lost interest in the admiralty system.
    You shoot me down
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  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,774 Arc User
    But admiralty tokens for dilithium? They're practically worthless for what you get out of them...
    That I can agree with, I personally never bother to do Admiralty at all because I don't see the point (though I also tend to buy dil through the dilex rather than grind it out).
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  • dragon#2626 dragon Member Posts: 172 Arc User
    This is a purely profit driven venture to encourage ppl to pay for zen and change it into dil to skip things.
    Where on Earth did you get this idea from?

    Most people I see in-game are still in the 100s in terms of endeavor rankings. They don't do endeavors every day, and even when they DO actually do them they often just do the ones that are easy. They don't just sit around skipping endeavors all the time, and generally just avoid doing the endeavors they don't like instead. With how slow most of the playerbase is with the endeavor system, and how infrequently the actually skip them, they would easily far make up the price of the reroll token before they need another. Especially with the constant events, and all the bonus dil those give out.

    People who really focus on the endeavor system are now in the 500s, with many approaching 600. The people who would skip the most are the ones who need it the least now, and have a large buildup of dil anyways so spending dil on them doesn't amount to much for them.

    There is nothing about this that encourages buying zen to trade into dil.

    And what about the Admiralty skip tokens?
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  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,259 Arc User
    Well this is going to do nothing. I hope no one is thinking this is going to effect the DilZen exchange in anyway.

    If upgrades are not driving the exchange anymore neither will endeavor skips. On admiralty skips really ? Why would anyone spend 2500 dil to skip a admiralty mission ? Even if it was 250 dil a skip what would be the point.

    I hope Cryptic is planning something beyond this... cause this isn't even going to slow the backlog down.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,774 Arc User
    husanakx wrote: »
    I hope no one is thinking this is going to effect the DilZen exchange in anyway.
    It probably won't, and Bort said himself on stream last week that the upcoming change would probably be low impact, I personally am just happy endeavor reroll tokens are gonna be a hell of a lot easier to get ahold of going forward.
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  • totenmettotenmet Member Posts: 586 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    In the next couple of days/weeks more and more people will have reached endeavor rank 600.

    No need to get re-roll tokens then. There will be no endeavors left to do.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,774 Arc User
    totenmet wrote: »
    In the next couple of days/weeks more and more people will have reached endeavor rank 600.

    No need to get re-roll tokens then. There will be no endeavors left to do.
    They'll probably expand endeavor ranks somehow, hopefully with new choices instead of a cap increase.
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  • corinthalascorinthalas Member Posts: 2,081 Arc User
    totenmet wrote: »
    In the next couple of days/weeks more and more people will have reached endeavor rank 600.

    No need to get re-roll tokens then. There will be no endeavors left to do.
    They'll probably expand endeavor ranks somehow, hopefully with new choices instead of a cap increase.

    There are still plenty of skills and stats that the system hasn't touched yet, so there's lots of room to expand the system without inflating the max perk ranks.
  • dragon#2626 dragon Member Posts: 172 Arc User
    And what about the Admiralty skip tokens?
    As several people have stated in this thread its easy to use a shuttle, or other similar low level ship card, to serve as a skin rather then actually using the pass token.

    That, I'm afraid, is a cop-out at best. Especially since doing so still takes up an Admiralty slot. No, making the pass tokens dil store only has a significant cost with quite literally zero benefits.
    I swim through a sea of stars. . . .
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,108 Arc User
    I have to admit: I find the response to this change very interesting. From prior experience (been here since beta) this is the type of response that typically results in some type of adjustment to the original plans. I would not be surprised at all of there they slightly reduce the cost of these tokens as a sort of compromise.

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