A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Genetics, however, tend to drift over the course of billions of years. Heck, they tend to drift over the course of mere millions - there's a reason why the largest remaining dinosaur relatives are ostriches and emus, a mere shadow of their Tyrannosaur ancestors. And that's just on one planet, with a relatively calm star.
So yeah, the Preservers as an excuse for interspecies hybrids is as nonsensical as Voyager's crack in the event horizon.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Yeah, but thst's not the point. The point is to express that no matter how we look, we're all the same beneath and should the oink just get along. Trek is not hard science and the science is not even important for the show.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Yeah, but thst's not the point. The point is to express that no matter how we look, we're all the same beneath and should the oink just get along. Trek is not hard science and the science is not even important for the show.
Then let's stop worrying how long distance telepathy is possible
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
especially given every other medium featuring telepathy has shown that not only can it cross multiple lightyears, for linked individuals it can even cross dimensions
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
especially given every other medium featuring telepathy has shown that not only can it cross multiple lightyears, for linked individuals it can even cross dimensions
Babylon 5 required telepaths to be in hyperspace to have any significant amount of range. Each fictional work involving telepathy has its own rules about how it works.
> @artan42 said: > > > > > Then let's stop worrying how long distance telepathy is possible
I would, if the reason they used it was of any significance. But as it stands it was an arsepull for a seemingly very forced redemption arc I just didn't buy xP
Telepathy is always a lazy plot device. Just to not figure out how two characters that have to communicate over long range they just can (she could just as well have had a prophetic dream). I really don't mind Luke force projecting himself over ridiculous distance even though that also came out of nowhere. Here, it bothers me.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
well, the same could be said for normal communication over long distance in star trek...they never explain HOW subspace communication works - it just does, thus people on the edge of federation space can talk to someone on ESD or at starfleet command instantly with no delay whatsoever
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
> @shadowfang240 said: > well, the same could be said for normal communication over long distance in star trek...they never explain HOW subspace communication works - it just does, thus people on the edge of federation space can talk to someone on ESD or at starfleet command instantly with no delay whatsoever
Sort of. Subspace comms is a handwavy technobabble for the same reason, although I do think a few times they said that the communication takes too long for some reasons so it's not always instantaneous. Now Vulcans being able to do that somehow means there is no need to have subspace comms in the first place and so forth. Plus, again, just too many superpowers at that point in my opinion xD
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
> @shadowfang240 said: > well, the same could be said for normal communication over long distance in star trek...they never explain HOW subspace communication works - it just does, thus people on the edge of federation space can talk to someone on ESD or at starfleet command instantly with no delay whatsoever
Incorrect subspace functions a lot like hyper space. We just don't know how to utilize it for travel.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
neither subspace, nor hyperspace, are real things, so people can make up whatever BS they want about it - same with telepathy; that isn't real either, despite whatever lies the soviets made up about it
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Now Vulcans being able to do that somehow means there is no need to have subspace comms in the first place and so forth. Plus, again, just too many superpowers at that point in my opinion xD
There's not enough Vulcans to render subspace communication useless.
What you've basically said is that because there's hundreds of humans that can run to Olympic levels we don't need cars as a species.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Now Vulcans being able to do that somehow means there is no need to have subspace comms in the first place and so forth. Plus, again, just too many superpowers at that point in my opinion xD
There's not enough Vulcans to render subspace communication useless.
What you've basically said is that because there's hundreds of humans that can run to Olympic levels we don't need cars as a species.
Not to mention, it seems to be tied to something Vulcan mystic-babbly that Sarek did with Michael specifically. This would actually make it more similar to a quantum entanglement communicator: you can communicate between two people instantaneously, but only those two people. To say nothing of the fact that nobody else can view the conversation and you therefore have to wait for the participants to repeat the messages.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
hey, maybe that's how vulcan telepathy works - quantum entanglement
That's something I was thinking about when I made my last post. Maybe not telepathy but possibly Subspace Communications. How it can send communications from one sector to the next with no delay.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Well, unless specifically addressed I assume this is another one of those one-off macguffins. The next time it would be really handy they won't use it
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
> @angrytarg said: > Well, unless specifically addressed I assume this is another one of those one-off macguffins. The next time it would be really handy they won't use it
Problem is there are too many Macguffins in that show.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Subspace comms can't use quantum entanglement, because in TOS there were frequently long communications delays between Enterprise's current position and Starfleet Command. (It's why the response to the Romulan incursion in "Balance of Terror" was completely up to Kirk - they didn't get a response until the very end of the episode. And there was another, I don't recall the ep, where they said it would take several days to get an answer to a transmission.) ENT explained the difference between that and subspace comms in TNG (pretty much instantaneous no matter where you are) as having to do with subspace-comm relays. (NX-01 was laying them as she went.)
OTOH, quantum entanglement is a perfectly valid Treknobabble for Vulcan telepathy, particularly since there's evidence that interneural communication within the human brain also uses quantum physics.
> @angrytarg said:
> Well, unless specifically addressed I assume this is another one of those one-off macguffins. The next time it would be really handy they won't use it
Problem is there are too many Macguffins in that show.
I'm going to need a full catalogue of so called 'Macguffins' from DSC. However, you're also going to have to produce a detailed catalogue doing the same for every single one of the other series as well in order for your claim of 'too many' to stand. This includes the films as well.
Subspace comms can't use quantum entanglement, because in TOS there were frequently long communications delays between Enterprise's current position and Starfleet Command. (It's why the response to the Romulan incursion in "Balance of Terror" was completely up to Kirk - they didn't get a response until the very end of the episode. And there was another, I don't recall the ep, where they said it would take several days to get an answer to a transmission.) ENT explained the difference between that and subspace comms in TNG (pretty much instantaneous no matter where you are) as having to do with subspace-comm relays. (NX-01 was laying them as she went.)
OTOH, quantum entanglement is a perfectly valid Treknobabble for Vulcan telepathy, particularly since there's evidence that interneural communication within the human brain also uses quantum physics.
I haven't seen TOS for a good long while but it's always feasible things changed between TOS and TNG. Though DS9 did show us that a Runabout can make it from DS9 to Earth in a day or so, so I guess it's slightly possible there may have always been a tiiiiiiny bit of making sh|t up as you go along with Trek technology .
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
> @artan42 said: > talonxv wrote: » > > > @angrytarg said: > > Well, unless specifically addressed I assume this is another one of those one-off macguffins. The next time it would be really handy they won't use it > > Problem is there are too many Macguffins in that show. > > > > > I'm going to need a full catalogue of so called 'Macguffins' from DSC. However, you're also going to have to produce a detailed catalogue doing the same for every single one of the other series as well in order for your claim of 'too many' to stand. This includes the films as well. > jonsills wrote: » > > Subspace comms can't use quantum entanglement, because in TOS there were frequently long communications delays between Enterprise's current position and Starfleet Command. (It's why the response to the Romulan incursion in "Balance of Terror" was completely up to Kirk - they didn't get a response until the very end of the episode. And there was another, I don't recall the ep, where they said it would take several days to get an answer to a transmission.) ENT explained the difference between that and subspace comms in TNG (pretty much instantaneous no matter where you are) as having to do with subspace-comm relays. (NX-01 was laying them as she went.) > > OTOH, quantum entanglement is a perfectly valid Treknobabble for Vulcan telepathy, particularly since there's evidence that interneural communication within the human brain also uses quantum physics. > > > > > I haven't seen TOS for a good long while but it's always feasible things changed between TOS and TNG. Though DS9 did show us that a Runabout can make it from DS9 to Earth in a day or so, so I guess it's slightly possible there may have always been a tiiiiiiny bit of making sh|t up as you go along with Trek technology .
I can't off the top of my head but I can think of a VERY bad offender.
Burnham having access to the ship's computer while in the brig for mutiny.
Hell in Star Trek V, Scotty had to blow a wall out to get Kirk, Spock and McCoy out of the Enterprise's brig, but for some reason I cannot even begin to fathom Burnham had access and even managed to trick the computer to let her out.
Do you realize how utterly stupid that is on so many levels? And how many times that could of been utilized previously by officers stuck in that kind of situation but couldn't, but because Burnham...
Really explain that one to me Lucy.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
> @azrael605 said: > > @artan42 said: > > angrytarg wrote: » > > > > Now Vulcans being able to do that somehow means there is no need to have subspace comms in the first place and so forth. Plus, again, just too many superpowers at that point in my opinion xD > > > > > > > > > > There's not enough Vulcans to render subspace communication useless. > > > > What you've basically said is that because there's hundreds of humans that can run to Olympic levels we don't need cars as a species. > > Not to mention it only worked with Sarek and Michael because Sarek left a piece of his Katra in Michael to save her life after her school was bombed.
I guess it's not driving her insane because it was only a piece? And I guess now it can be just split off as needed? Macguffin anyone?
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> @azrael605 said: > > @talonxv said: > > > @artan42 said: > > > talonxv wrote: » > > > > > > > @angrytarg said: > > > > Well, unless specifically addressed I assume this is another one of those one-off macguffins. The next time it would be really handy they won't use it > > > > > > Problem is there are too many Macguffins in that show. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm going to need a full catalogue of so called 'Macguffins' from DSC. However, you're also going to have to produce a detailed catalogue doing the same for every single one of the other series as well in order for your claim of 'too many' to stand. This includes the films as well. > > > jonsills wrote: » > > > > > > Subspace comms can't use quantum entanglement, because in TOS there were frequently long communications delays between Enterprise's current position and Starfleet Command. (It's why the response to the Romulan incursion in "Balance of Terror" was completely up to Kirk - they didn't get a response until the very end of the episode. And there was another, I don't recall the ep, where they said it would take several days to get an answer to a transmission.) ENT explained the difference between that and subspace comms in TNG (pretty much instantaneous no matter where you are) as having to do with subspace-comm relays. (NX-01 was laying them as she went.) > > > > > > OTOH, quantum entanglement is a perfectly valid Treknobabble for Vulcan telepathy, particularly since there's evidence that interneural communication within the human brain also uses quantum physics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I haven't seen TOS for a good long while but it's always feasible things changed between TOS and TNG. Though DS9 did show us that a Runabout can make it from DS9 to Earth in a day or so, so I guess it's slightly possible there may have always been a tiiiiiiny bit of making sh|t up as you go along with Trek technology . > > > > I can't off the top of my head but I can think of a VERY bad offender. > > > > Burnham having access to the ship's computer while in the brig for mutiny. > > > > Hell in Star Trek V, Scotty had to blow a wall out to get Kirk, Spock and McCoy out of the Enterprise's brig, but for some reason I cannot even begin to fathom Burnham had access and even managed to trick the computer to let her out. > > > > Do you realize how utterly stupid that is on so many levels? And how many times that could of been utilized previously by officers stuck in that kind of situation but couldn't, but because Burnham... > > > > Really explain that one to me Lucy. > > Scotty did not "have" to blow the wall out, he could have just walked into the brig and opened it, but Shatner thought blowing out the wall was more dramatic. Having computer access in the cell is simply an evolution in our modern standards for treatment of prisoners being reflected on screen. Can you stop with the overblown histrionics already. No other Trek series, hell no other TV series in history has ever or will ever measure up to these impossible standards you are projecting. > > Here is a partial list of TOS macguffins off the top of my head. > > The Obelisk that erased Kirk's memory. > The book that turned a whole planet into the Chicago mobs. > The Queen to Queen's level 3 counter-code. > Two identical men one crazed and one calm. > The disease Kirk carries that a planet wanted to solve their overpopulation.
Never said their wasn't Macguffins in other shows. But none near as bad as DSC.
Spore drive need I explain there?
And no having computer access for a PRISONER is not an evolution. It's a bad security practice! And no other show has ever done it!
Good god man. Do you know what kind of security nightmare that is?
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
> @artan42 said:
> talonxv wrote: »
>
> > @angrytarg said:
> > Well, unless specifically addressed I assume this is another one of those one-off macguffins. The next time it would be really handy they won't use it
>
> Problem is there are too many Macguffins in that show.
>
>
>
>
> I'm going to need a full catalogue of so called 'Macguffins' from DSC. However, you're also going to have to produce a detailed catalogue doing the same for every single one of the other series as well in order for your claim of 'too many' to stand. This includes the films as well.
> jonsills wrote: »
>
> Subspace comms can't use quantum entanglement, because in TOS there were frequently long communications delays between Enterprise's current position and Starfleet Command. (It's why the response to the Romulan incursion in "Balance of Terror" was completely up to Kirk - they didn't get a response until the very end of the episode. And there was another, I don't recall the ep, where they said it would take several days to get an answer to a transmission.) ENT explained the difference between that and subspace comms in TNG (pretty much instantaneous no matter where you are) as having to do with subspace-comm relays. (NX-01 was laying them as she went.)
>
> OTOH, quantum entanglement is a perfectly valid Treknobabble for Vulcan telepathy, particularly since there's evidence that interneural communication within the human brain also uses quantum physics.
>
>
>
>
> I haven't seen TOS for a good long while but it's always feasible things changed between TOS and TNG. Though DS9 did show us that a Runabout can make it from DS9 to Earth in a day or so, so I guess it's slightly possible there may have always been a tiiiiiiny bit of making sh|t up as you go along with Trek technology .
I can't off the top of my head but I can think of a VERY bad offender.
Burnham having access to the ship's computer while in the brig for mutiny.
Hell in Star Trek V, Scotty had to blow a wall out to get Kirk, Spock and McCoy out of the Enterprise's brig, but for some reason I cannot even begin to fathom Burnham had access and even managed to trick the computer to let her out.
Do you realize how utterly stupid that is on so many levels? And how many times that could of been utilized previously by officers stuck in that kind of situation but couldn't, but because Burnham...
Really explain that one to me Lucy.
It couldn't have used before, because I do not remember a time where the brig was losing atmosphere while people were inside the brig containment.
I think it was a very clever way of reusing the old Kirk trick of outsmarting a computer with logic, without it resulting in something ridicilous as the computer exploding from it.
Why shouldn't the computer listen what the person in the brig has to say? What if the prisoners wants to reveal important information to its captors?
But just because you can talk to it doesn't mean you can make it open the containment field. It needs a very good reason. And the prisoner going to die if it isn't release in some manner is a good reason.
If a fire breaks out in prison, you'd need to let the inmates leave their cells and maybe even the entire prison complex, too, before you let them burn in it.
If there had been an officer in the brig (alive), he would have made the same decision. But there wasn't. (Not sure if there was no officer at all,or if he was killed during the battle.)
---
The Vulcan long-range telepathy between Burnham and Sarek was described as being based on Sarek using a dangerous and rarely used Vulcan telepathic technique he used to save his life. So it's has little universal applications, because you don't want to perform dangerous telepathic rituals if a subspace communication link could do the same. It seems to me the occassions it was used and played a part in the story, it was used where it made sense and not conveniently forgotten.
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Now Vulcans being able to do that somehow means there is no need to have subspace comms in the first place and so forth. Plus, again, just too many superpowers at that point in my opinion xD
There's not enough Vulcans to render subspace communication useless.
What you've basically said is that because there's hundreds of humans that can run to Olympic levels we don't need cars as a species.
Also, there is the fact that not every Vulcan will have the same amount of skill in telepathy to achieve interstellar communication. Like every other ability, it requires talent and training to get the most out of it. Even if a Vulcan has the talent to achieve interstellar communication, that doesn't mean they have the training to. So it might be 20 out of a million Vulcan that can communicate with anyone in the Vulcan star system, 20 out of a billion Vulcans that can communicate with anyone in Federation space, and 20 out of a trillion Vulcans that can communicate with anyone in the Milky Way Galaxy.
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#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
My character Tsin'xing
Actually it happens even faster than that. There was a study I heard about once that suggested it only takes a thousand years to completely change human skin color. And there's more recent science showing city pigeons are diverging from ones living in the countryside to be more toxin-resistant, with darker feathers that can get rid of more heavy metals. (Cities of the kind we have now are really less than 200 years old.)
So yeah, the Preservers as an excuse for interspecies hybrids is as nonsensical as Voyager's crack in the event horizon.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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Then let's stop worrying how long distance telepathy is possible
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Babylon 5 required telepaths to be in hyperspace to have any significant amount of range. Each fictional work involving telepathy has its own rules about how it works.
>
>
>
>
> Then let's stop worrying how long distance telepathy is possible
I would, if the reason they used it was of any significance. But as it stands it was an arsepull for a seemingly very forced redemption arc I just didn't buy xP
Telepathy is always a lazy plot device. Just to not figure out how two characters that have to communicate over long range they just can (she could just as well have had a prophetic dream). I really don't mind Luke force projecting himself over ridiculous distance even though that also came out of nowhere. Here, it bothers me.
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#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
> well, the same could be said for normal communication over long distance in star trek...they never explain HOW subspace communication works - it just does, thus people on the edge of federation space can talk to someone on ESD or at starfleet command instantly with no delay whatsoever
Sort of. Subspace comms is a handwavy technobabble for the same reason, although I do think a few times they said that the communication takes too long for some reasons so it's not always instantaneous. Now Vulcans being able to do that somehow means there is no need to have subspace comms in the first place and so forth. Plus, again, just too many superpowers at that point in my opinion xD
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> well, the same could be said for normal communication over long distance in star trek...they never explain HOW subspace communication works - it just does, thus people on the edge of federation space can talk to someone on ESD or at starfleet command instantly with no delay whatsoever
Incorrect subspace functions a lot like hyper space. We just don't know how to utilize it for travel.
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#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
There's not enough Vulcans to render subspace communication useless.
What you've basically said is that because there's hundreds of humans that can run to Olympic levels we don't need cars as a species.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Not to mention, it seems to be tied to something Vulcan mystic-babbly that Sarek did with Michael specifically. This would actually make it more similar to a quantum entanglement communicator: you can communicate between two people instantaneously, but only those two people. To say nothing of the fact that nobody else can view the conversation and you therefore have to wait for the participants to repeat the messages.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
That's something I was thinking about when I made my last post. Maybe not telepathy but possibly Subspace Communications. How it can send communications from one sector to the next with no delay.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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> Well, unless specifically addressed I assume this is another one of those one-off macguffins. The next time it would be really handy they won't use it
Problem is there are too many Macguffins in that show.
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OTOH, quantum entanglement is a perfectly valid Treknobabble for Vulcan telepathy, particularly since there's evidence that interneural communication within the human brain also uses quantum physics.
I'm going to need a full catalogue of so called 'Macguffins' from DSC. However, you're also going to have to produce a detailed catalogue doing the same for every single one of the other series as well in order for your claim of 'too many' to stand. This includes the films as well.
I haven't seen TOS for a good long while but it's always feasible things changed between TOS and TNG. Though DS9 did show us that a Runabout can make it from DS9 to Earth in a day or so, so I guess it's slightly possible there may have always been a tiiiiiiny bit of making sh|t up as you go along with Trek technology
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
> talonxv wrote: »
>
> > @angrytarg said:
> > Well, unless specifically addressed I assume this is another one of those one-off macguffins. The next time it would be really handy they won't use it
>
> Problem is there are too many Macguffins in that show.
>
>
>
>
> I'm going to need a full catalogue of so called 'Macguffins' from DSC. However, you're also going to have to produce a detailed catalogue doing the same for every single one of the other series as well in order for your claim of 'too many' to stand. This includes the films as well.
> jonsills wrote: »
>
> Subspace comms can't use quantum entanglement, because in TOS there were frequently long communications delays between Enterprise's current position and Starfleet Command. (It's why the response to the Romulan incursion in "Balance of Terror" was completely up to Kirk - they didn't get a response until the very end of the episode. And there was another, I don't recall the ep, where they said it would take several days to get an answer to a transmission.) ENT explained the difference between that and subspace comms in TNG (pretty much instantaneous no matter where you are) as having to do with subspace-comm relays. (NX-01 was laying them as she went.)
>
> OTOH, quantum entanglement is a perfectly valid Treknobabble for Vulcan telepathy, particularly since there's evidence that interneural communication within the human brain also uses quantum physics.
>
>
>
>
> I haven't seen TOS for a good long while but it's always feasible things changed between TOS and TNG. Though DS9 did show us that a Runabout can make it from DS9 to Earth in a day or so, so I guess it's slightly possible there may have always been a tiiiiiiny bit of making sh|t up as you go along with Trek technology .
I can't off the top of my head but I can think of a VERY bad offender.
Burnham having access to the ship's computer while in the brig for mutiny.
Hell in Star Trek V, Scotty had to blow a wall out to get Kirk, Spock and McCoy out of the Enterprise's brig, but for some reason I cannot even begin to fathom Burnham had access and even managed to trick the computer to let her out.
Do you realize how utterly stupid that is on so many levels? And how many times that could of been utilized previously by officers stuck in that kind of situation but couldn't, but because Burnham...
Really explain that one to me Lucy.
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> > @artan42 said:
> > angrytarg wrote: »
> >
> > Now Vulcans being able to do that somehow means there is no need to have subspace comms in the first place and so forth. Plus, again, just too many superpowers at that point in my opinion xD
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > There's not enough Vulcans to render subspace communication useless.
> >
> > What you've basically said is that because there's hundreds of humans that can run to Olympic levels we don't need cars as a species.
>
> Not to mention it only worked with Sarek and Michael because Sarek left a piece of his Katra in Michael to save her life after her school was bombed.
I guess it's not driving her insane because it was only a piece? And I guess now it can be just split off as needed? Macguffin anyone?
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> > @talonxv said:
> > > @artan42 said:
> > > talonxv wrote: »
> > >
> > > > @angrytarg said:
> > > > Well, unless specifically addressed I assume this is another one of those one-off macguffins. The next time it would be really handy they won't use it
> > >
> > > Problem is there are too many Macguffins in that show.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm going to need a full catalogue of so called 'Macguffins' from DSC. However, you're also going to have to produce a detailed catalogue doing the same for every single one of the other series as well in order for your claim of 'too many' to stand. This includes the films as well.
> > > jonsills wrote: »
> > >
> > > Subspace comms can't use quantum entanglement, because in TOS there were frequently long communications delays between Enterprise's current position and Starfleet Command. (It's why the response to the Romulan incursion in "Balance of Terror" was completely up to Kirk - they didn't get a response until the very end of the episode. And there was another, I don't recall the ep, where they said it would take several days to get an answer to a transmission.) ENT explained the difference between that and subspace comms in TNG (pretty much instantaneous no matter where you are) as having to do with subspace-comm relays. (NX-01 was laying them as she went.)
> > >
> > > OTOH, quantum entanglement is a perfectly valid Treknobabble for Vulcan telepathy, particularly since there's evidence that interneural communication within the human brain also uses quantum physics.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I haven't seen TOS for a good long while but it's always feasible things changed between TOS and TNG. Though DS9 did show us that a Runabout can make it from DS9 to Earth in a day or so, so I guess it's slightly possible there may have always been a tiiiiiiny bit of making sh|t up as you go along with Trek technology .
> >
> > I can't off the top of my head but I can think of a VERY bad offender.
> >
> > Burnham having access to the ship's computer while in the brig for mutiny.
> >
> > Hell in Star Trek V, Scotty had to blow a wall out to get Kirk, Spock and McCoy out of the Enterprise's brig, but for some reason I cannot even begin to fathom Burnham had access and even managed to trick the computer to let her out.
> >
> > Do you realize how utterly stupid that is on so many levels? And how many times that could of been utilized previously by officers stuck in that kind of situation but couldn't, but because Burnham...
> >
> > Really explain that one to me Lucy.
>
> Scotty did not "have" to blow the wall out, he could have just walked into the brig and opened it, but Shatner thought blowing out the wall was more dramatic. Having computer access in the cell is simply an evolution in our modern standards for treatment of prisoners being reflected on screen. Can you stop with the overblown histrionics already. No other Trek series, hell no other TV series in history has ever or will ever measure up to these impossible standards you are projecting.
>
> Here is a partial list of TOS macguffins off the top of my head.
>
> The Obelisk that erased Kirk's memory.
> The book that turned a whole planet into the Chicago mobs.
> The Queen to Queen's level 3 counter-code.
> Two identical men one crazed and one calm.
> The disease Kirk carries that a planet wanted to solve their overpopulation.
Never said their wasn't Macguffins in other shows. But none near as bad as DSC.
Spore drive need I explain there?
And no having computer access for a PRISONER is not an evolution. It's a bad security practice! And no other show has ever done it!
Good god man. Do you know what kind of security nightmare that is?
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It couldn't have used before, because I do not remember a time where the brig was losing atmosphere while people were inside the brig containment.
I think it was a very clever way of reusing the old Kirk trick of outsmarting a computer with logic, without it resulting in something ridicilous as the computer exploding from it.
Why shouldn't the computer listen what the person in the brig has to say? What if the prisoners wants to reveal important information to its captors?
But just because you can talk to it doesn't mean you can make it open the containment field. It needs a very good reason. And the prisoner going to die if it isn't release in some manner is a good reason.
If a fire breaks out in prison, you'd need to let the inmates leave their cells and maybe even the entire prison complex, too, before you let them burn in it.
If there had been an officer in the brig (alive), he would have made the same decision. But there wasn't. (Not sure if there was no officer at all,or if he was killed during the battle.)
---
The Vulcan long-range telepathy between Burnham and Sarek was described as being based on Sarek using a dangerous and rarely used Vulcan telepathic technique he used to save his life. So it's has little universal applications, because you don't want to perform dangerous telepathic rituals if a subspace communication link could do the same. It seems to me the occassions it was used and played a part in the story, it was used where it made sense and not conveniently forgotten.
Also, there is the fact that not every Vulcan will have the same amount of skill in telepathy to achieve interstellar communication. Like every other ability, it requires talent and training to get the most out of it. Even if a Vulcan has the talent to achieve interstellar communication, that doesn't mean they have the training to. So it might be 20 out of a million Vulcan that can communicate with anyone in the Vulcan star system, 20 out of a billion Vulcans that can communicate with anyone in Federation space, and 20 out of a trillion Vulcans that can communicate with anyone in the Milky Way Galaxy.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood