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PROTONIC STILL OVERPERFORMING IN PVP, WHY ?!

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    kyle223catkyle223cat Member Posts: 584 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    adz006 wrote: »

    WHo cares its pvp?

    And you felt you needed to post that because ?


    As a reminder, that decisions which affect the vast majority of the player base shouldn't be made by the vast minority of player base, maybe?!

    I've always felt that the state of PvP is a good indicator of what's over-performing in the rest of the game. If something is a problem for players who have resists and other buffs, imagine what it's doing to NPC ships that have next to no buffs. There has to be a limit on how easy it is to kill NPC ships. That being said, I think the state of the game currently is a pretty good indicator that PvP has next to no influence on the balance of the game. Because there is no balance in this game.
    da84303d8bc4080b9860968f634f98682215bbe5.gifv
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    meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    kyle223cat wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    adz006 wrote: »

    WHo cares its pvp?

    And you felt you needed to post that because ?


    As a reminder, that decisions which affect the vast majority of the player base shouldn't be made by the vast minority of player base, maybe?!

    I've always felt that the state of PvP is a good indicator of what's over-performing in the rest of the game. If something is a problem for players who have resists and other buffs, imagine what it's doing to NPC ships that have next to no buffs. There has to be a limit on how easy it is to kill NPC ships. That being said, I think the state of the game currently is a pretty good indicator that PvP has next to no influence on the balance of the game. Because there is no balance in this game.


    Apples and Oranges, really; NPC's don't, for the most part, use (meaningful) resists, but often have millions of HP.

    As for PvP having no influence on the balance of the game, allow me to remind you of the huge nerfs to SS3, IT, and Intel as a whole, really, because of really just a handful of loud PvP-ers.

    Anyway, a single console probably shouldn't hit for 159k, granted; but I bet there's really only very few ppl who know how to achieve that.


    P.S. And to think I actually trashed a few of those Refrequencers, LOL, to make more room in my inventory. :)
    3lsZz0w.jpg
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    spencerb96spencerb96 Member Posts: 243 Media Corps
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    PROTONIC STILL UNDERPERFORMING IN PVE, WHY ?!

    I think you should check the DPS table on SCM for HSE @meimeitoo

    Unless this counts as underperforming:
    dM4PWQ8.png
    ffluoti63bi9.png
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    meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    spencerb96 wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    PROTONIC STILL UNDERPERFORMING IN PVE, WHY ?!

    I think you should check the DPS table on SCM for HSE @meimeitoo

    Unless this counts as underperforming:
    dM4PWQ8.png


    Yes, I was mistaken. Didn't realize the old Science Refrequencer console had suddenly become so OP. It should be fixed.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
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    odinforever20000odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,849 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    spencerb96 wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    PROTONIC STILL UNDERPERFORMING IN PVE, WHY ?!

    I think you should check the DPS table on SCM for HSE @meimeitoo

    Unless this counts as underperforming:
    dM4PWQ8.png


    Yes, I was mistaken. Didn't realize the old Science Refrequencer console had suddenly become so OP. It should be fixed.

    That parse is using a bug that someone discovered that seems to affect a specific console on a specific ship using the Shield refrequencers.

    I run 4 of them on a sci ship and dont get any where near that kind of dps in ISA.

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    e30erneste30ernest Member Posts: 1,794 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    Yeah...I love how these nerf everything I don't like in PvP keeps touting a parse that shows off a BUG as to why these should be nerfed. Instead of I don't know...FIX THE BLOODY BUG.

    To be honest, when this first came up I did not realize it was a bug. It was only through testing that Spencer uncovered how that bug worked and our subsequent runs showing how easy it was to repeat that bug.

    So now I am shifting my allegiance to the "fix that bug" camp.
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    peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    Can we please close this thread.

    Are you nuts?! This is the best thread we have rolling atm!

    My highlight are those knowing how this bug works throwing in dizzying numbers but unwilling to share it for the sake of the community. Lol, as if this the black death which needs to be contained before it spreads.

    I think at this point we can only pray my brothers. Pray that the holy nerf-dev hears us and delivers all the poor souls that upgraded those consoles this weekend.

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    tunebreakertunebreaker Member Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    Frankly, I feel that even without exploiting that bug, Shield Refrequencers ought to be toned down a bit. I mean, it kind of feels weird when I have a 10% proc from a single console (I had only 1 of them equipped) do as much DPS as one of my Torpedoes. Maybe restrict them to proc only off BOFF abilities and not stuff like Delphic Tear, and have EPG *not* buff the proton proc.

    However, I am afraid that Cryptic won't exactly understand what "a bit" means, and when it comes to modifying that proton proc, they turn it into utter rubbish like happened to Plasplosions. Which would be very sad.
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    ichaerus1ichaerus1 Member Posts: 986 Arc User
    I have a query. With regards to a certain universal console that can trigger the Shield Refrequencers. If an ability, active, or attack has a bounce effect(chains to additional targets), does it count as a ticking effect?
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    adz006adz006 Member Posts: 125 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    kyle223cat wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    adz006 wrote: »

    WHo cares its pvp?

    And you felt you needed to post that because ?


    As a reminder, that decisions which affect the vast majority of the player base shouldn't be made by the vast minority of player base, maybe?!

    I've always felt that the state of PvP is a good indicator of what's over-performing in the rest of the game. If something is a problem for players who have resists and other buffs, imagine what it's doing to NPC ships that have next to no buffs. There has to be a limit on how easy it is to kill NPC ships. That being said, I think the state of the game currently is a pretty good indicator that PvP has next to no influence on the balance of the game. Because there is no balance in this game.


    Apples and Oranges, really; NPC's don't, for the most part, use (meaningful) resists, but often have millions of HP.

    As for PvP having no influence on the balance of the game, allow me to remind you of the huge nerfs to SS3, IT, and Intel as a whole, really, because of really just a handful of loud PvP-ers.

    Anyway, a single console probably shouldn't hit for 159k, granted; but I bet there's really only very few ppl who know how to achieve that.


    P.S. And to think I actually trashed a few of those Refrequencers, LOL, to make more room in my inventory. :)

    I don't know about you but stomping all the pve queues isn't much fun either, when players resort to trying to set best times and records on pves then it indicates there is a lack of a challenge for players. Only 3-4 queues left that give a remote challenge, KORF,GKE and HSE spring to mind. Nerfs are good all round if needs be, I remember the old days of ISA where the 10% rule had a meaning, Now I can stomp the whole thing alone. Then again a dev will explain it was never intended to work that way, nothing that over performs ever was
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    adz006adz006 Member Posts: 125 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    > @adz006 said:
    > azrael605 wrote: »
    >
    > > @adz006 said:
    > > azrael605 wrote: »
    > >
    > > This belongs in the Bug section & with the OP rewritten for accuracy & not flaming.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > The thread was about protonic proc period, but it transpired that there are one or two abilities which are over proccing it atm
    >
    > Because its bugged. Therefore this belongs in bug reports.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Its over performing not bugged.... No it doesn't belong in bug reports

    Yes it is bugged. Thats why its "overperforming" those consoles were trash when they came out, they stayed trash for years. Now there is a bug causing unintended interactions that are making this garbage console think its something with nuts.

    My post was originally about the refrequencers not the bug which I'm aware of. The proc in team pvp environments is horrid on its own, 2-3 players on a team with theses consoles and its a farce. But since these consoles are the topic of the thread the guys are sharing their findings and these "exploits" or bugs have come to light.
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    peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    @adz006

    Your “I prefer a challenge” argumentation lost its validity with S13 as the set of nerfs resulted in a further decline in queue participants especially for the “easy maps” ISA and CCA. They get as barren as they hard ones during some parts of the day now.

    The number of players in agreement with nerfs for the sake of game difficulty seems to be in no way near a magnitude to maintain a healthy queue population. Those who used to jump on the train when enough individuals rofl-stomped the content with their overpowerd builds however were.

    *Why all those challenge seekers always find their way into STO forums is a mystery to me because they sever seem to find their way into public PvE*
    Post edited by peterconnorfirst on
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    odinforever20000odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,849 Arc User
    Frankly, I feel that even without exploiting that bug, Shield Refrequencers ought to be toned down a bit. I mean, it kind of feels weird when I have a 10% proc from a single console (I had only 1 of them equipped) do as much DPS as one of my Torpedoes. Maybe restrict them to proc only off BOFF abilities and not stuff like Delphic Tear, and have EPG *not* buff the proton proc.

    However, I am afraid that Cryptic won't exactly understand what "a bit" means, and when it comes to modifying that proton proc, they turn it into utter rubbish like happened to Plasplosions. Which would be very sad.

    So..I slightly disagree..I dont mind that it will activate on consoles like Delphic tear...Mostly due to the 2min recharge on those consoles..But...I wont shead a tear if the EPG consoles like the Dephic lost the ability to proc them..I will,however....Cry once my Drain console "Aceton Assimilator" can no longer activate that proc (1 time) upon it being hit.

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    legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,280 Arc User
    wait...acetone can activate the consoles? yeah, that really doesn't sound like it's intended...​​
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    tunebreakertunebreaker Member Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    Frankly, I feel that even without exploiting that bug, Shield Refrequencers ought to be toned down a bit. I mean, it kind of feels weird when I have a 10% proc from a single console (I had only 1 of them equipped) do as much DPS as one of my Torpedoes. Maybe restrict them to proc only off BOFF abilities and not stuff like Delphic Tear, and have EPG *not* buff the proton proc.

    However, I am afraid that Cryptic won't exactly understand what "a bit" means, and when it comes to modifying that proton proc, they turn it into utter rubbish like happened to Plasplosions. Which would be very sad.

    So..I slightly disagree..I dont mind that it will activate on consoles like Delphic tear...Mostly due to the 2min recharge on those consoles..But...I wont shead a tear if the EPG consoles like the Dephic lost the ability to proc them..I will,however....Cry once my Drain console "Aceton Assimilator" can no longer activate that proc (1 time) upon it being hit.

    The console clearly states "When using Exotic Damage and Shield Drain abilities, 10% chance..."
    Aceton Assimilator spawns a stationary pet that deals exotic damage and drains power, but is not an Exotic Damage, nor a Shield Drain ability by itself. Thus, AA proccing Shield Refrequencer is even less logical than something like DT, and sounds like a bug to me. Sorry.
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    e30erneste30ernest Member Posts: 1,794 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    spencerb96 wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    PROTONIC STILL UNDERPERFORMING IN PVE, WHY ?!

    I think you should check the DPS table on SCM for HSE @meimeitoo

    Unless this counts as underperforming:
    dM4PWQ8.png


    Yes, I was mistaken. Didn't realize the old Science Refrequencer console had suddenly become so OP. It should be fixed.

    That parse is using a bug that someone discovered that seems to affect a specific console on a specific ship using the Shield refrequencers.

    I run 4 of them on a sci ship and dont get any where near that kind of dps in ISA.

    Yeah...I love how these nerf everything I don't like in PvP keeps touting a parse that shows off a BUG as to why these should be nerfed. Instead of I don't know...FIX THE BLOODY BUG. These are one of the few cheap and easy to get consoles to make viable PvE sci boats. I wonder if morons like the OP realize that the backlash against the PvP community, what little is left of it would be catastrophic if he got what he wanted and they nerfed one of the last cheap viable sci build items for PvE. I mean I do admit that the bug associated with these consoles should be fixed...I don't think anyone is against that...but seriously, these "PvP" players complaining about something because they are too stupid to figure a counter for it is getting old. And the OP has repeatedly shown he actually does not know how these consoles work...or pretty much anything about this game.

    if they fix the bug, CN, then the powergamers who've been exploiting it will give us a hundred threads about how PvP is nerfing everything and it's the end of the world and it's killing off the fun and...

    Oh those Darn PvP players-that don't seem to actually exist, much less exert any influence whatsoever wrt what Cryptic does, they're ruining everything!! Just ask a few of hte posters here.

    All the top-end PvE players I know don't care for these consoles and a majority of them would prefer to get them fixed.

    The thing is though, it's better for Cryptic to fix these sooner rather than later, while the people who use these consoles are a minority. That way, they wouldn't erode player confidence further by making them seem like they made players spend on an item only to make that item worth less later (like some of the Embassy Plasma Console nerfs prior to S13).
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    e30erneste30ernest Member Posts: 1,794 Arc User
    When you said "powergamers" I understood it as a high end player. Hence my comment.
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    odinforever20000odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,849 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    Frankly, I feel that even without exploiting that bug, Shield Refrequencers ought to be toned down a bit. I mean, it kind of feels weird when I have a 10% proc from a single console (I had only 1 of them equipped) do as much DPS as one of my Torpedoes. Maybe restrict them to proc only off BOFF abilities and not stuff like Delphic Tear, and have EPG *not* buff the proton proc.

    However, I am afraid that Cryptic won't exactly understand what "a bit" means, and when it comes to modifying that proton proc, they turn it into utter rubbish like happened to Plasplosions. Which would be very sad.

    So..I slightly disagree..I dont mind that it will activate on consoles like Delphic tear...Mostly due to the 2min recharge on those consoles..But...I wont shead a tear if the EPG consoles like the Dephic lost the ability to proc them..I will,however....Cry once my Drain console "Aceton Assimilator" can no longer activate that proc (1 time) upon it being hit.

    The console clearly states "When using Exotic Damage and Shield Drain abilities, 10% chance..."
    Aceton Assimilator spawns a stationary pet that deals exotic damage and drains power, but is not an Exotic Damage, nor a Shield Drain ability by itself. Thus, AA proccing Shield Refrequencer is even less logical than something like DT, and sounds like a bug to me. Sorry.

    Well...so That console is both Subsystem Drain and Exotic Damage :P.....The Radiation the Aceton Assimilator emits as part of the subsytem drain and when struck..One or both Radiation sources os Exotic Damage (Just like the Delphic Tear)..SO..It makes sense to me as the deployment seems to be treated as an Exotic Damage console (Im not actually sure if its the radiation when its deployed or the radiation when its fired on...).They only Proc once when they do proc tho..

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    tunebreakertunebreaker Member Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    Frankly, I feel that even without exploiting that bug, Shield Refrequencers ought to be toned down a bit. I mean, it kind of feels weird when I have a 10% proc from a single console (I had only 1 of them equipped) do as much DPS as one of my Torpedoes. Maybe restrict them to proc only off BOFF abilities and not stuff like Delphic Tear, and have EPG *not* buff the proton proc.

    However, I am afraid that Cryptic won't exactly understand what "a bit" means, and when it comes to modifying that proton proc, they turn it into utter rubbish like happened to Plasplosions. Which would be very sad.

    So..I slightly disagree..I dont mind that it will activate on consoles like Delphic tear...Mostly due to the 2min recharge on those consoles..But...I wont shead a tear if the EPG consoles like the Dephic lost the ability to proc them..I will,however....Cry once my Drain console "Aceton Assimilator" can no longer activate that proc (1 time) upon it being hit.

    The console clearly states "When using Exotic Damage and Shield Drain abilities, 10% chance..."
    Aceton Assimilator spawns a stationary pet that deals exotic damage and drains power, but is not an Exotic Damage, nor a Shield Drain ability by itself. Thus, AA proccing Shield Refrequencer is even less logical than something like DT, and sounds like a bug to me. Sorry.

    Well...so That console is both Subsystem Drain and Exotic Damage :P.....The Radiation the Aceton Assimilator emits as part of the subsytem drain and when struck..One or both Radiation sources os Exotic Damage (Just like the Delphic Tear)..SO..It makes sense to me as the deployment seems to be treated as an Exotic Damage console (Im not actually sure if its the radiation when its deployed or the radiation when its fired on...).They only Proc once when they do proc tho..

    Difference between DT and AA is that DT comes directly from your ship, while AA is spawned entity that happens to do exotic damage. You don't expect Shield Refrequencer to proc from Fleet Support Presidio's TBR or TR, do you? And as I wrote before, I don't support even DT proccing the consoles in question.

    And to answer your "not sure" part - small radiation damage is constant to enemies near it, but it does even more damage when fired upon.
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    meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    spencerb96 wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    PROTONIC STILL UNDERPERFORMING IN PVE, WHY ?!

    I think you should check the DPS table on SCM for HSE @meimeitoo

    Unless this counts as underperforming:
    dM4PWQ8.png


    Yes, I was mistaken. Didn't realize the old Science Refrequencer console had suddenly become so OP. It should be fixed.

    That parse is using a bug that someone discovered that seems to affect a specific console on a specific ship using the Shield refrequencers.

    I run 4 of them on a sci ship and dont get any where near that kind of dps in ISA.

    Yeah...I love how these nerf everything I don't like in PvP keeps touting a parse that shows off a BUG as to why these should be nerfed. Instead of I don't know...FIX THE BLOODY BUG. These are one of the few cheap and easy to get consoles to make viable PvE sci boats. I wonder if morons like the OP realize that the backlash against the PvP community, what little is left of it would be catastrophic if he got what he wanted and they nerfed one of the last cheap viable sci build items for PvE. I mean I do admit that the bug associated with these consoles should be fixed...I don't think anyone is against that...but seriously, these "PvP" players complaining about something because they are too stupid to figure a counter for it is getting old. And the OP has repeatedly shown he actually does not know how these consoles work...or pretty much anything about this game.

    if they fix the bug, CN, then the powergamers who've been exploiting it will give us a hundred threads about how PvP is nerfing everything and it's the end of the world and it's killing off the fun and...


    Nice bait. :) But I'm not taking. Initially (my bad for not reading properly) I thought this was about the old Tactical Protonic consoles, which, of course, I ddn't like to see nerfed, as they can barely compete as it is. The Refrequencer bug, however (or exploit, depending on your POV), I think definitely should be fixed. Or rather, more accurate, whatever set of conditions causes the bug to trigger, should be fixed. And at this point in the thread, I don't even see ppl protesting a fix any more.

    P.S. Gotta give PvP-ers props for their uncanny ability to find these kind of synergies. :)
    3lsZz0w.jpg
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    odinforever20000odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,849 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    Frankly, I feel that even without exploiting that bug, Shield Refrequencers ought to be toned down a bit. I mean, it kind of feels weird when I have a 10% proc from a single console (I had only 1 of them equipped) do as much DPS as one of my Torpedoes. Maybe restrict them to proc only off BOFF abilities and not stuff like Delphic Tear, and have EPG *not* buff the proton proc.

    However, I am afraid that Cryptic won't exactly understand what "a bit" means, and when it comes to modifying that proton proc, they turn it into utter rubbish like happened to Plasplosions. Which would be very sad.

    So..I slightly disagree..I dont mind that it will activate on consoles like Delphic tear...Mostly due to the 2min recharge on those consoles..But...I wont shead a tear if the EPG consoles like the Dephic lost the ability to proc them..I will,however....Cry once my Drain console "Aceton Assimilator" can no longer activate that proc (1 time) upon it being hit.

    The console clearly states "When using Exotic Damage and Shield Drain abilities, 10% chance..."
    Aceton Assimilator spawns a stationary pet that deals exotic damage and drains power, but is not an Exotic Damage, nor a Shield Drain ability by itself. Thus, AA proccing Shield Refrequencer is even less logical than something like DT, and sounds like a bug to me. Sorry.

    Well...so That console is both Subsystem Drain and Exotic Damage :P.....The Radiation the Aceton Assimilator emits as part of the subsytem drain and when struck..One or both Radiation sources os Exotic Damage (Just like the Delphic Tear)..SO..It makes sense to me as the deployment seems to be treated as an Exotic Damage console (Im not actually sure if its the radiation when its deployed or the radiation when its fired on...).They only Proc once when they do proc tho..

    Difference between DT and AA is that DT comes directly from your ship, while AA is spawned entity that happens to do exotic damage. You don't expect Shield Refrequencer to proc from Fleet Support Presidio's TBR or TR, do you? And as I wrote before, I don't support even DT proccing the consoles in question.

    And to answer your "not sure" part - small radiation damage is constant to enemies near it, but it does even more damage when fired upon.

    So..Its probably "ANOTHER BUG"..but ..its kinda a small one related to the AA's (sounds like the AA's are being treated like an ability..similar to SSV)..It also procs on the Plasma Cloud from the PEP..(sometimes..)

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    shadowwraith#9264 shadowwraith Member Posts: 379 Arc User
    strange that only pvp crowd is complaining about it since these consoles have been in sto for nearly 4years since the dyson rep launched, could it be that no-one actually played pvp back then?
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    odinforever20000odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,849 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    strange that only pvp crowd is complaining about it since these consoles have been in sto for nearly 4years since the dyson rep launched, could it be that no-one actually played pvp back then?

    Well..to be fair...These consoles got a nearly 2-4x damage boost and opened to more abilities/consoles at the opening of season 13..Before season 13 Few abilities activated them and the Max damage per console was around 7k..No you can go up to...30ish K per console.

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