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PROTONIC STILL OVERPERFORMING IN PVP, WHY ?!

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  • kostamojenxkostamojenx Member Posts: 251 Arc User
    Check the patch notes for tomorrow.
  • odinforever20000odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,849 Arc User
    'Resolved an issue that could cause the Multi-Spectral Particle Generator and Protonic Energy Stabilizer Module to activate excessively when activated with some abilities.'

    Heh..Bug fixed

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  • locutusofcactuslocutusofcactus Member Posts: 651 Arc User
    Nice to hear about the patch. Anyone else think that the Tom Paris bridge officer he should have +% proton damage? You know, cuz he's aka captain proton?
  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    I'm pretty sure that counts as an answer from the Devs, even if it's not in-thread :).
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  • e30erneste30ernest Member Posts: 1,794 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    as for Cryptic fixing it quickly? the tendency is not to address a bug like this until it's in common enough use to move the needle on their precious metrics.

    Well they're fixing it (or at least part of it) now, which is a good thing.
  • snipey47asnipey47a Member Posts: 485 Media Corps
    They have done half a job. They fixed the couple of items that were over procc'ing them and made the tooltip damage hover over console read more accurately.

    What they have failed to do is put these consoles through the same methodology for balancing like all the other widely used items at the s13 nerf. They clearly forgot these consoles exist as EPG and aux scaling on them is far too aggressive compared to other exotic abilities. While I welcome the fix this week, there is more that needs to be done and I hope this item is still on there balance board.

    Let's not forget also that these consoles are hitting heavier than most other items in this game let alone when you get multiple consoles procc'ing together. Also, there is enough player testing now to show that on occasion these attacks ignore proton damage resist all together. So in my opinion theres still something wrong under the hood somewhere and they are yet to be balanced....

    So I say to Cryptic, thanks for this but when is the rest happening?
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    Took three adjustments to embassy consoles ranging over a duration of 2,5 years until they were put into a position where cryptic wanted them.
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,919 Arc User
    Took three adjustments to embassy consoles ranging over a duration of 2,5 years until they were put into a position where cryptic wanted them.

    That position being completely useless.

    Cryptic knows how to make 2 types of items.. those that over perform..

    and trash.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    Um, yeah, I'm laying that mentality squarely at the feet of players. Those folk who seemingly dread any game having complexity greater than "Best" and "Not Best" for every single slot. That lovely outlook where "If it's 2% less effective than Best, it's 'Trash'."
  • ussvaliant#6064 ussvaliant Member Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    Took three adjustments to embassy consoles ranging over a duration of 2,5 years until they were put into a position where cryptic wanted them.

    That position being completely useless.

    Cryptic knows how to make 2 types of items.. those that over perform..

    and trash.

    True. But then balancing them out properly takes testing. Time i suspect the Dev's don't get given the luxury to do. So its either high performance or send to the recycler
    maR4zDV.jpg

    Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
  • odinforever20000odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,849 Arc User
    Took three adjustments to embassy consoles ranging over a duration of 2,5 years until they were put into a position where cryptic wanted them.

    That position being completely useless.

    Cryptic knows how to make 2 types of items.. those that over perform..

    and trash.

    True. But then balancing them out properly takes testing. Time i suspect the Dev's don't get given the luxury to do. So its either high performance or send to the recycler

    Which these consoles have been in for a very long time (the recycler)

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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,572 Arc User
    OK, after the patch today and verification can we finally put a bullet in this Thread. ;)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • odinforever20000odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,849 Arc User
    snipey47a wrote: »
    They have done half a job. They fixed the couple of items that were over procc'ing them and made the tooltip damage hover over console read more accurately.

    What they have failed to do is put these consoles through the same methodology for balancing like all the other widely used items at the s13 nerf. They clearly forgot these consoles exist as EPG and aux scaling on them is far too aggressive compared to other exotic abilities. While I welcome the fix this week, there is more that needs to be done and I hope this item is still on there balance board.

    Let's not forget also that these consoles are hitting heavier than most other items in this game let alone when you get multiple consoles procc'ing together. Also, there is enough player testing now to show that on occasion these attacks ignore proton damage resist all together. So in my opinion theres still something wrong under the hood somewhere and they are yet to be balanced....

    So I say to Cryptic, thanks for this but when is the rest happening?

    But Snipey...These were not "widely used" pre season 13...In fact..Im pretty sure they'd fall under the "almost never used."

    Before season 13 6-7k is all you could get out of them per console with ALOT fewer abilities to trigger them..

    What made them worthless to most players was the consoles themselves are at 2/3rds the spec points of any other sci console AND proc'd fewer times than the Pre-season 13 Plasma Exploder consoles by a factor of at least 2-4x. An overwhelming Majority of the abilities that proc these consoles are 30 seconds +...Making the 10% per ability activation in line with other doff procs for science..Which..If someone is burning ALL their 30 second abilities just to get one of these to proc..kinda leaves them without some stuff for a while..

    As for the occasional "ignores proton damage resistance"..I wonder if its tied to the "Double damage vs Voth" coding..I havent been able to get mine to "ignore" any resistances PVPers have (SOB,Blood,David..ect).. I have seen where an NPC was hit for the full (mouse over) value of the console (without applying debuffs),but as you mentioned before..it was infrequent..

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  • adz006adz006 Member Posts: 125 Arc User
    snipey47a wrote: »
    They have done half a job. They fixed the couple of items that were over procc'ing them and made the tooltip damage hover over console read more accurately.

    What they have failed to do is put these consoles through the same methodology for balancing like all the other widely used items at the s13 nerf. They clearly forgot these consoles exist as EPG and aux scaling on them is far too aggressive compared to other exotic abilities. While I welcome the fix this week, there is more that needs to be done and I hope this item is still on there balance board.

    Let's not forget also that these consoles are hitting heavier than most other items in this game let alone when you get multiple consoles procc'ing together. Also, there is enough player testing now to show that on occasion these attacks ignore proton damage resist all together. So in my opinion theres still something wrong under the hood somewhere and they are yet to be balanced....

    So I say to Cryptic, thanks for this but when is the rest happening?

    Totally agree with you there, the thread was slightly side tracked due to a bug that was found but the fundamental issue still stands
  • adz006adz006 Member Posts: 125 Arc User

    ltminns wrote: »
    OK, after the patch today and verification can we finally put a bullet in this Thread. ;)

    I'm afraid not, this thread isn't about the bug that was over proccing the cosnoles
  • adz006adz006 Member Posts: 125 Arc User
    snipey47a wrote: »
    They have done half a job. They fixed the couple of items that were over procc'ing them and made the tooltip damage hover over console read more accurately.

    What they have failed to do is put these consoles through the same methodology for balancing like all the other widely used items at the s13 nerf. They clearly forgot these consoles exist as EPG and aux scaling on them is far too aggressive compared to other exotic abilities. While I welcome the fix this week, there is more that needs to be done and I hope this item is still on there balance board.

    Let's not forget also that these consoles are hitting heavier than most other items in this game let alone when you get multiple consoles procc'ing together. Also, there is enough player testing now to show that on occasion these attacks ignore proton damage resist all together. So in my opinion theres still something wrong under the hood somewhere and they are yet to be balanced....

    So I say to Cryptic, thanks for this but when is the rest happening?

    But Snipey...These were not "widely used" pre season 13...In fact..Im pretty sure they'd fall under the "almost never used."

    Before season 13 6-7k is all you could get out of them per console with ALOT fewer abilities to trigger them..

    What made them worthless to most players was the consoles themselves are at 2/3rds the spec points of any other sci console AND proc'd fewer times than the Pre-season 13 Plasma Exploder consoles by a factor of at least 2-4x. An overwhelming Majority of the abilities that proc these consoles are 30 seconds +...Making the 10% per ability activation in line with other doff procs for science..Which..If someone is burning ALL their 30 second abilities just to get one of these to proc..kinda leaves them without some stuff for a while..

    As for the occasional "ignores proton damage resistance"..I wonder if its tied to the "Double damage vs Voth" coding..I havent been able to get mine to "ignore" any resistances PVPers have (SOB,Blood,David..ect).. I have seen where an NPC was hit for the full (mouse over) value of the console (without applying debuffs),but as you mentioned before..it was infrequent..

    An overwhelming Majority of the abilities that proc these consoles are 30 seconds,- well practically every temporal and sci dmg dealing ability will proc it, and I can think of 2 or 3 abilities at the top of my head that have cd 20 sec or less, I could stack 10-15 abilities and spam them every 1-2 sec, and that's not including abilities like iso kinetic cannon and other ones aswell. So in short every 1-2 sec ability to proc for 40k+ original point stands
  • odinforever20000odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,849 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    adz006 wrote: »
    snipey47a wrote: »
    They have done half a job. They fixed the couple of items that were over procc'ing them and made the tooltip damage hover over console read more accurately.

    What they have failed to do is put these consoles through the same methodology for balancing like all the other widely used items at the s13 nerf. They clearly forgot these consoles exist as EPG and aux scaling on them is far too aggressive compared to other exotic abilities. While I welcome the fix this week, there is more that needs to be done and I hope this item is still on there balance board.

    Let's not forget also that these consoles are hitting heavier than most other items in this game let alone when you get multiple consoles procc'ing together. Also, there is enough player testing now to show that on occasion these attacks ignore proton damage resist all together. So in my opinion theres still something wrong under the hood somewhere and they are yet to be balanced....

    So I say to Cryptic, thanks for this but when is the rest happening?

    But Snipey...These were not "widely used" pre season 13...In fact..Im pretty sure they'd fall under the "almost never used."

    Before season 13 6-7k is all you could get out of them per console with ALOT fewer abilities to trigger them..

    What made them worthless to most players was the consoles themselves are at 2/3rds the spec points of any other sci console AND proc'd fewer times than the Pre-season 13 Plasma Exploder consoles by a factor of at least 2-4x. An overwhelming Majority of the abilities that proc these consoles are 30 seconds +...Making the 10% per ability activation in line with other doff procs for science..Which..If someone is burning ALL their 30 second abilities just to get one of these to proc..kinda leaves them without some stuff for a while..

    As for the occasional "ignores proton damage resistance"..I wonder if its tied to the "Double damage vs Voth" coding..I havent been able to get mine to "ignore" any resistances PVPers have (SOB,Blood,David..ect).. I have seen where an NPC was hit for the full (mouse over) value of the console (without applying debuffs),but as you mentioned before..it was infrequent..

    An overwhelming Majority of the abilities that proc these consoles are 30 seconds,- well practically every temporal and sci dmg dealing ability will proc it, and I can think of 2 or 3 abilities at the top of my head that have cd 20 sec or less, I could stack 10-15 abilities and spam them every 1-2 sec, and that's not including abilities like iso kinetic cannon and other ones aswell. So in short every 1-2 sec ability to proc for 40k+ original point stands

    So..The temporal stuff (im not sure if sci cooldowns affect those) can be every 15 seconds (duplicate ability cooldown) but the only vanilla sci ability thats close (Without duplicates) is Tachyon beam
    (TBR and Tractor beam share a 20 second timer (Im closer to 25 sec),
    DRB is somewhere around 45-60 seconds, GW3 is 40 seconds (Similar to SSV time) and
    Tykens is somewhere around 40seconds with no duplicate ability )...
    Iso cannon is 45-60 seconds...
    Consoles are usually 90seconds-2min
    Anti-time singularity is what..4 min?..

    While "practically every temporal dmg dealing" is sub 20 seconds very few "Sci Damage" abilities are...
    40k+ per ability activation would only be AFTER a negative proton resistance..The consoles themselves need ALOT of Aux and EPG to get to 30k (400 EPG @ 99 on a non sci ship)..Id love to be able to hit a player for 40k..But the guys I pvp with have resistances around 60%+ when I check my parser..Best I ever see against them might be..10-12k average damage.


    I say this as someone who typically flys a T5U (still waiting for the T6 upgrade) and Even in a T6 only use 1 Temporal ability.

    Granted I have 8 abilities that that can proc my 4 consoles on my R'mor,Maybe 2 more consoles on my Surhesh (for the Alliance set) that will activate those same consoles..for the PVE DPS crowd..Spacebaring all your abilities to proc this consoles is silly (outside of the bug Im not seeing where 4 of these help much).

    ..Maybe removing the sub 30 second abilities from being able to proc the consoles would be a good next step.

    As I mentioned before..There were much fewer things that proc'ed these consoles before season 13.

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  • odinforever20000odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,849 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    Although..Maybe bumping them back to their previous 6-7k per console damage but be unresistable could be a thing :P
    Or 2.5% chance per tick only on GW,Tykens,DRB and SSV... This would again limit the number of abilities that trigger them

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  • tigerariestigeraries Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    nikeix wrote: »
    Um, yeah, I'm laying that mentality squarely at the feet of players. Those folk who seemingly dread any game having complexity greater than "Best" and "Not Best" for every single slot. That lovely outlook where "If it's 2% less effective than Best, it's 'Trash'."

    Could easily be fixed by making all consoles unique with zero stacking... same for duty officers. Can do that with Bridge Officers till since some traits can stack while others can't.
  • odinforever20000odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,849 Arc User
    tigeraries wrote: »
    nikeix wrote: »
    Um, yeah, I'm laying that mentality squarely at the feet of players. Those folk who seemingly dread any game having complexity greater than "Best" and "Not Best" for every single slot. That lovely outlook where "If it's 2% less effective than Best, it's 'Trash'."

    Could easily be fixed by making all consoles unique with zero stacking... same for duty officers. Can do that with Bridge Officers till since some traits can stack while others can't.

    "zero stacking." What is it you mean? Sci ability require sci consoles to add to whatever respective ability they are working towards to be effective (EPG,Control, Drain.)..If I understand what you saying that wouldnt happen..making universals more interesting..Unless I understand you wrong..so..correct me

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  • ichaerus1ichaerus1 Member Posts: 986 Arc User
    tigeraries wrote: »
    nikeix wrote: »
    Um, yeah, I'm laying that mentality squarely at the feet of players. Those folk who seemingly dread any game having complexity greater than "Best" and "Not Best" for every single slot. That lovely outlook where "If it's 2% less effective than Best, it's 'Trash'."

    Could easily be fixed by making all consoles unique with zero stacking... same for duty officers. Can do that with Bridge Officers till since some traits can stack while others can't.

    "zero stacking." What is it you mean? Sci ability require sci consoles to add to whatever respective ability they are working towards to be effective (EPG,Control, Drain.)..If I understand what you saying that wouldnt happen..making universals more interesting..Unless I understand you wrong..so..correct me

    I think it means that you only use one Vulnerability Locator, one Shield Refrequencer, one RCS, for example. No more equipping multiple consoles of the same name/type.
  • odinforever20000odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,849 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    ichaerus1 wrote: »
    tigeraries wrote: »
    nikeix wrote: »
    Um, yeah, I'm laying that mentality squarely at the feet of players. Those folk who seemingly dread any game having complexity greater than "Best" and "Not Best" for every single slot. That lovely outlook where "If it's 2% less effective than Best, it's 'Trash'."

    Could easily be fixed by making all consoles unique with zero stacking... same for duty officers. Can do that with Bridge Officers till since some traits can stack while others can't.

    "zero stacking." What is it you mean? Sci ability require sci consoles to add to whatever respective ability they are working towards to be effective (EPG,Control, Drain.)..If I understand what you saying that wouldnt happen..making universals more interesting..Unless I understand you wrong..so..correct me

    I think it means that you only use one Vulnerability Locator, one Shield Refrequencer, one RCS, for example. No more equipping multiple consoles of the same name/type.

    WEll..Sine most days I only have one of the shield refrequences on a sci slot (unless 1 of the consoles was like 400 epg or drain on a sci ship)...THat could work for those but would suck for everything not a tac toon..

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  • ussvaliant#6064 ussvaliant Member Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    Seaofsorrows is correct here Cryptic knows how to make 2 types of items.. those that over perform and trash

    They recently adjusted Hypersonic radiation on NPC's, I was finding being hit with that power on New Romulus was pretty much instant death. After running New Rom on a new toon this week and being hit with Hypersonic radiation it was back on Npc's to its usual trash slate. It didn't even tickle or knock any health off my character.
    maR4zDV.jpg

    Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
  • adz006adz006 Member Posts: 125 Arc User
    Wait let me correct
    Seaofsorrows is correct here Cryptic knows how to make 2 types of items.. those that over perform and trash

    They recently adjusted Hypersonic radiation on NPC's, I was finding being hit with that power on New Romulus was pretty much instant death. After running New Rom on a new toon this week and being hit with Hypersonic radiation it was back on Npc's to its usual trash slate. It didn't even tickle or knock any health off my character.

    yes indeed the usual pattern, break it, either too op or useless
  • adz006adz006 Member Posts: 125 Arc User
    Although..Maybe bumping them back to their previous 6-7k per console damage but be unresistable could be a thing :P
    Or 2.5% chance per tick only on GW,Tykens,DRB and SSV... This would again limit the number of abilities that trigger them

    Or just make them proc with only sci abilities or temporal abilities, that would be problem solved I think
  • adz006adz006 Member Posts: 125 Arc User
    adz006 wrote: »
    Although..Maybe bumping them back to their previous 6-7k per console damage but be unresistable could be a thing :P
    Or 2.5% chance per tick only on GW,Tykens,DRB and SSV... This would again limit the number of abilities that trigger them

    Or just make them proc with only sci abilities or temporal abilities, that would be problem solved I think

    like either one of them but not both if that makes sense
  • tigerariestigeraries Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    WEll..Sine most days I only have one of the shield refrequences on a sci slot (unless 1 of the consoles was like 400 epg or drain on a sci ship)...THat could work for those but would suck for everything not a tac toon..

    it would also solve the "this ship only has 2 or 3 tac console slots so it's garbage"

    if you use antiproton cannons... you can slot cannon console and antiproton console... if a torp ship, you use 1 console for torpedos and another for the type of torpedo (like photon).

    Basically all ships would only need 2 tac console slots at a min unless you have some other type of tac consoles you want to use.

    plasma explode consoles really became an issue once folks stacked multi consoles to increase the proc chance & rate.
  • adz006adz006 Member Posts: 125 Arc User
    And still no word from devs....... rude and ignorant ?
  • odinforever20000odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,849 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    adz006 wrote: »
    And still no word from devs....... rude and ignorant ?

    Well..after the bug fix..Not sure what wrongs at this point..I run 4 an they only help about..4-8k dps for a 50ker running a sci boat (ISA PVE)..But this kills my Drain numbers..(I like running Tykens..so im out 100 Drain with these)

    PVP..I'm still not able to wipe anyone out who knows how to PVP (Adv Players)..Granted this is 5v5..

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