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PROTONIC STILL OVERPERFORMING IN PVP, WHY ?!

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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,572 Arc User
    'Some people see things as they are and ask why. Others dream things that never were and ask why not.'
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    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • daviddxxdaviddxx Member Posts: 200 Arc User
    edited August 2017

    @ambassadorkael#6946
    @coldsnapped
    @baddmoonrizin



    Hi Guys,..
    snipey47a wrote: »
    They have done half a job. They fixed the couple of items that were over procc'ing them and made the tooltip damage hover over console read more accurately.

    What they have failed to do is put these consoles through the same methodology for balancing like all the other widely used items at the s13 nerf. They clearly forgot these consoles exist as EPG and aux scaling on them is far too aggressive compared to other exotic abilities. While I welcome the fix this week, there is more that needs to be done and I hope this item is still on there balance board.

    Let's not forget also that these consoles are hitting heavier than most other items in this game let alone when you get multiple consoles procc'ing together. Also, there is enough player testing now to show that on occasion these attacks ignore proton damage resist all together. So in my opinion theres still something wrong under the hood somewhere and they are yet to be balanced....

    So I say to Cryptic, thanks for this but when is the rest happening?


    well your right,.. these Consoles are still boring as hell in PvP ( and PvE ) and the Dev's didnt understand bc they never play the Game like we do. If you max. your build and use everything what is possible, only than you see the issue of these TRIBBLE.

    I meen.. i try to explain the real Problem in the German Forum Month ago ( my english is not good enough to post this here in the Bugreport ).. you see nothing is happend. Btw. Proton do not bypassing the Res., thats not true, but anyway its to strong.. .

    https://www.arcgames.com/de/forums/stode#/discussion/379240/problem-console-science-shield-refrequencer-dysonstore

    Same with the Scoreboard, Placate Lockout, HE didnt work after S.13 against Drain ( it should be ).. and a lot more. This is not all.. some Bugs i didnt even wrote there.. they are to ridiculous to share this in the Bugreportforum.. i send this PM to Mod/CM.

    All i get is " reported " .. but ofc CrypticBro dont really care.. .



    Anyway..

    back to these Consoles.. i will try.. lol..

    5 Consoles like that..

    4m43mmxf.png

    and it should be proc'ed with these..

    na9bged2kv54.jpg

    but it proc'ed also with these to..

    Timeline Collapse
    Chronometric Inversion Field
    Gravimetric Conversion
    Shared Fate
    Tractor Beam Repulsors
    Tyken's Rift
    Eject Warp Plasma*


    Anti-Time Entanglement Singularity

    Particle Emission Plasma Torpedo
    ( Deals Plasma Damage over 10 sec and creates a plasma* cloud on impact that lasts for 6 seconds that deals plasma damage every 1 sec to foes within )

    EPS Corruption


    So we got:

    20 Skills
    6 Set Items
    1 Rep.
    1 Weapon
    1 Ulti



    This is to much.. and remember some of these are Plasmaprocs and got every Sek. the Chance for the Proton-Proc, like the Torp, EPS Corruption.. .


    Lets say we use 12 Skills ( its possible, even with a low CD like Entropic 10 sec. ) 1-2 Set Items.. Anti-Time ofc.. the Torp ( with Top-Spread, 100% acc easy mode ) .. and some of them got AOE Effect.. so you can Hit more than only One Guy.. .

    12 Skills.. 5 Consoles.. meens 60 x 10% Chance for the Proc.. in theory 60 x 34000 DMG possible.. that meens 2.040.000 DMG.

    Sure it will not proc everytime.. its just in Theory.. but if 2 or 3 Guys use it.. Goodnight for everyone.


    I hope my english was more or less ok.. and you understand me here.. lol.
    Post edited by daviddxx on
    Regarts
    David
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  • odinforever20000odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,849 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    Subspace vortex also procs it..The screenhsot from the wiki is pre season 13..I didn't bother to update All the new abilities the proc the consoles due to the proc being less and fewer abilities to activate before season 13.
    Post edited by odinforever20000 on

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  • tunebreakertunebreaker Member Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    Particle Emission Plasma Torpedo doesn't proc Shield Refrequencers. Not the main damage, not the plasma DoT, not the exotic cloud DoT.
    Me and Choro tested it quite extensively.
  • daviddxxdaviddxx Member Posts: 200 Arc User
    OFC it does.. test it again.. you will see.
    Regarts
    David
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    Star Trek Online
    *** Aktiv since 03.06.10 ***
  • odinforever20000odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,849 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    Particle Emission Plasma Torpedo doesn't proc Shield Refrequencers. Not the main damage, not the plasma DoT, not the exotic cloud DoT.
    Me and Choro tested it quite extensively.

    So..Ive seen the Pep Exotic cloud proc the consoles in my combat logs..It doesn't proc them often..But Its been there..Granted I haven checked the last 2 updates but I can show logs where the cloud proc'd the console..Granted this was in PVE content..I dont use the PEP in PVP..

    @daviddxx
    Eject warp plasma should not proc these consoles per the tool tip (just like FBP).

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  • odinforever20000odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,849 Arc User
    @daviddxx
    Would you be ok with the number of abilities in the wiki screen shot (13 before consoles) to continue procing these consoles if the damage remained the same?

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  • tunebreakertunebreaker Member Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    Particle Emission Plasma Torpedo doesn't proc Shield Refrequencers. Not the main damage, not the plasma DoT, not the exotic cloud DoT.
    Me and Choro tested it quite extensively.

    So..Ive seen the Pep Exotic cloud proc the consoles in my combat logs..It doesn't proc them often..But Its been there..Granted I haven checked the last 2 updates but I can show logs where the cloud proc'd the console..Granted this was in PVE content..I dont use the PEP in PVP..

    That's interesting. I shot Choro at least a hundred times with PEP and we never witnessed a single proton proc. Meanwhile pretty much every third activation from any exotic boff ability procced at least a single proton console (as I had 5 of them equipped).
    But yes, if you have logs supporting that, I'm definitely willing to look them over. :)
  • daviddxxdaviddxx Member Posts: 200 Arc User
    well.. tba. i didnt understand you 100% Sir. If you meen.. it should only work with these abilities on the Wiki-screen.. yes ofc.

    For PvP i would like to see .. only 50% DMG against Players.. or only 2.5% Chance for the Proc.. not 100% shieldbypass.. you know we are not NPC's with 1 M. Hitpoints.. . Its just sucks if you get killed by a simple Proc.. this is lame.

    I know.. its hard to balance PvE and PvP.. but its not impossible. But to do nothing is more boring for Players like me or other PvP Guys. I know PvP is not the Mainfokus for the Dev's.. but some of us still like to play PvP here.. for me its the only Reason im still here.

    Anyway.. i hope for the best.. and some Devs check this out and fix this soon.. . :)
    Regarts
    David
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    Star Trek Online
    *** Aktiv since 03.06.10 ***
  • odinforever20000odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,849 Arc User
    daviddxx wrote: »
    well.. tba. i didnt understand you 100% Sir. If you meen.. it should only work with these abilities on the Wiki-screen.. yes ofc.

    For PvP i would like to see .. only 50% DMG against Players.. or only 2.5% Chance for the Proc.. not 100% shieldbypass.. you know we are not NPC's with 1 M. Hitpoints.. . Its just sucks if you get killed by a simple Proc.. this is lame.

    I know.. its hard to balance PvE and PvP.. but its not impossible. But to do nothing is more boring for Players like me or other PvP Guys. I know PvP is not the Mainfokus for the Dev's.. but some of us still like to play PvP here.. for me its the only Reason im still here.

    Anyway.. i hope for the best.. and some Devs check this out and fix this soon.. . :)

    So for the Wiki-Screen..That IS what abilities list that proced the consoles before season 13 (I haven't changed this page yet).

    So..a 2.5% chance for the proc would suck since most of the science abilities except 2 are right around 30 second global (Most consoles are around 90 seconds with a set bonus so those could stay...4min for Anti-Time Entanglement Singularity ). If they removed Tachyon Beam and Entropic,You'd get rid of the large majority of the spamming with these consoles (IMHO).

    Id say..If you got a change is should only be one of these..50% DMG against players or 100% damage but no shield bypass for example..
    Particle Emission Plasma Torpedo doesn't proc Shield Refrequencers. Not the main damage, not the plasma DoT, not the exotic cloud DoT.
    Me and Choro tested it quite extensively.

    So..Ive seen the Pep Exotic cloud proc the consoles in my combat logs..It doesn't proc them often..But Its been there..Granted I haven checked the last 2 updates but I can show logs where the cloud proc'd the console..Granted this was in PVE content..I dont use the PEP in PVP..

    That's interesting. I shot Choro at least a hundred times with PEP and we never witnessed a single proton proc. Meanwhile pretty much every third activation from any exotic boff ability procced at least a single proton console (as I had 5 of them equipped).
    But yes, if you have logs supporting that, I'm definitely willing to look them over. :)

    Will do boss.


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  • daviddxxdaviddxx Member Posts: 200 Arc User
    I didnt understand the fact that you want/need these Consoles.. i meen we ALL want a balance Game.. in your opinion its really ok to have a chance for a Proc over 30000 ? Its a proc bro.. you need nothing for that.. just spaming some skill and yeahhhh.. lol .

    For me ( my Opinion ) its lame.. not a single Proc should do such DMG.

    We got this in the past.. remember as the Plasma Consoles got this DMG aswell.. just Faw around and thats it. The Reason they removed/fixed it.

    I believe the Game is without such TRIBBLE better.. .
    Regarts
    David
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    Star Trek Online
    *** Aktiv since 03.06.10 ***
  • odinforever20000odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,849 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    daviddxx wrote: »
    I didnt understand the fact that you want/need these Consoles.. i meen we ALL want a balance Game.. in your opinion its really ok to have a chance for a Proc over 30000 ? Its a proc bro.. you need nothing for that.. just spaming some skill and yeahhhh.. lol .

    For me ( my Opinion ) its lame.. not a single Proc should do such DMG.

    We got this in the past.. remember as the Plasma Consoles got this DMG aswell.. just Faw around and thats it. The Reason they removed/fixed it.

    I believe the Game is without such **** better.. .

    Its not that I want or need these consoles..I just would hate for them to become useless vendor trash again..Granted I have only 1 sci ship with (4 of) them and I fly that ship very little (Prefer the Epg/Drain Combo or DrainX2 sci consoles) as I dont have to sacrifice my drain abilities for a Proc that may or may not stop my PVE opponents (much less my human players)

    It might proc for over 30k but on pros like yourself or the Unstoppable SOB?! Prolly only hits for 5k ..

    With the Bug in PVE stuff fixed..Were only talking PVP now..

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  • nas1911nas1911 Member Posts: 1 New User
    edited August 2017
    People are whining about overpowered gear, and I get that. But perhaps we should whine about why 99.999% of the players will never PvP or stop pvping altogether? I've been playing again for the last 3 months and I still havent even gotten anywhere near where I should be in order to become somewhat 'competitive' in PvP.

    It takes a year or more now for ANYone to actually be able to do something decent in PvP without being stomped.

    Until this is addressed................

    I'd rather have OP consoles and everyone having an easy time gettting into PvP without having to spend 24/7 a day trying to get themselves up to par, than this...

    Detach PvP from rep, traits and all the horse TRIBBLE, back to basics. I get peoeple need to pay to play a game, but eliminate the SPENT TIME REQUIRED to actually GET INTO pvp.

    Why do you think all old skool players left? Because they cant fight the horrible grind anymore, there's simply no way to get back into it without too much time investment. People have lives. A game isn't supposed to be a second job, especially not if you already pay for all the TRIBBLE needed.
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  • adz006adz006 Member Posts: 125 Arc User
    daviddxx wrote: »
    @ambassadorkael#6946
    @coldsnapped
    @baddmoonrizin



    Hi Guys,..
    snipey47a wrote: »
    They have done half a job. They fixed the couple of items that were over procc'ing them and made the tooltip damage hover over console read more accurately.

    What they have failed to do is put these consoles through the same methodology for balancing like all the other widely used items at the s13 nerf. They clearly forgot these consoles exist as EPG and aux scaling on them is far too aggressive compared to other exotic abilities. While I welcome the fix this week, there is more that needs to be done and I hope this item is still on there balance board.

    Let's not forget also that these consoles are hitting heavier than most other items in this game let alone when you get multiple consoles procc'ing together. Also, there is enough player testing now to show that on occasion these attacks ignore proton damage resist all together. So in my opinion theres still something wrong under the hood somewhere and they are yet to be balanced....

    So I say to Cryptic, thanks for this but when is the rest happening?


    well your right,.. these Consoles are still boring as hell in PvP ( and PvE ) and the Dev's didnt understand bc they never play the Game like we do. If you max. your build and use everything what is possible, only than you see the issue of these ****.

    I meen.. i try to explain the real Problem in the German Forum Month ago ( my english is not good enough to post this here in the Bugreport ).. you see nothing is happend. Btw. Proton do not bypassing the Res., thats not true, but anyway its to strong.. .

    https://www.arcgames.com/de/forums/stode#/discussion/379240/problem-console-science-shield-refrequencer-dysonstore

    Same with the Scoreboard, Placate Lockout, HE didnt work after S.13 against Drain ( it should be ).. and a lot more. This is not all.. some Bugs i didnt even wrote there.. they are to ridiculous to share this in the Bugreportforum.. i send this PM to Mod/CM.

    All i get is " reported " .. but ofc CrypticBro dont really care.. .



    Anyway..

    back to these Consoles.. i will try.. lol..

    5 Consoles like that..

    4m43mmxf.png

    and it should be proc'ed with these..

    na9bged2kv54.jpg

    but it proc'ed also with these to..

    Timeline Collapse
    Chronometric Inversion Field
    Gravimetric Conversion
    Shared Fate
    Tractor Beam Repulsors
    Tyken's Rift
    Eject Warp Plasma*


    Anti-Time Entanglement Singularity

    Particle Emission Plasma Torpedo
    ( Deals Plasma Damage over 10 sec and creates a plasma* cloud on impact that lasts for 6 seconds that deals plasma damage every 1 sec to foes within )

    EPS Corruption


    So we got:

    20 Skills
    6 Set Items
    1 Rep.
    1 Weapon
    1 Ulti



    This is to much.. and remember some of these are Plasmaprocs and got every Sek. the Chance for the Proton-Proc, like the Torp, EPS Corruption.. .


    Lets say we use 12 Skills ( its possible, even with a low CD like Entropic 10 sec. ) 1-2 Set Items.. Anti-Time ofc.. the Torp ( with Top-Spread, 100% acc easy mode ) .. and some of them got AOE Effect.. so you can Hit more than only One Guy.. .

    12 Skills.. 5 Consoles.. meens 60 x 10% Chance for the Proc.. in theory 60 x 34000 DMG possible.. that meens 2.040.000 DMG.

    Sure it will not proc everytime.. its just in Theory.. but if 2 or 3 Guys use it.. Goodnight for everyone.


    I hope my english was more or less ok.. and you understand me here.. lol.

    Thank you for your input David excellent post, that one post summed up the problem in one go better than all my qq posts put together. Still such a shame that devs lack common courtesy, been already several weeks and not even a single word on this issue.....
  • spencerb96spencerb96 Member Posts: 247 Media Corps
    They said they're just starting to look into these consoles on the stream yesterday. Didn't have anything else yet to say.
    ffluoti63bi9.png
  • odinforever20000odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,849 Arc User
    Oddly enough..On the same ship that has 22k (10% chance) for me proton consoles...My Sensor Burout console is over 31k (It is over 10 sec)..Similar to my Enhanced Proton beam..
    spencerb96 wrote: »
    They said they're just starting to look into these consoles on the stream yesterday. Didn't have anything else yet to say.

    NIce

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  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    Do I see that correctly? Is that thing proc-ing for 43k?! That seems too much.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • odinforever20000odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,849 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Do I see that correctly? Is that thing proc-ing for 43k?! That seems too much.

    Um..where? 43k before debuffs? Or Mouse over?

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  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Do I see that correctly? Is that thing proc-ing for 43k?! That seems too much.

    Um..where? 43k before debuffs? Or Mouse over?


    On the image posted above:

    4m43mmxf.png
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • odinforever20000odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,849 Arc User
    > @meimeitoo said:
    > odinforever20000 wrote: »
    >
    > meimeitoo wrote: »
    >
    > Do I see that correctly? Is that thing proc-ing for 43k?! That seems too much.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Um..where? 43k before debuffs? Or Mouse over?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > On the image posted above:

    Ah 34k not 44k..Max Epg and Aux for that number

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  • adz006adz006 Member Posts: 125 Arc User
    spencerb96 wrote: »
    They said they're just starting to look into these consoles on the stream yesterday. Didn't have anything else yet to say.

    I s
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Do I see that correctly? Is that thing proc-ing for 43k?! That seems too much.

    yup
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    > @meimeitoo said:
    > odinforever20000 wrote: »
    >
    > meimeitoo wrote: »
    >
    > Do I see that correctly? Is that thing proc-ing for 43k?! That seems too much.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Um..where? 43k before debuffs? Or Mouse over?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > On the image posted above:

    Ah 34k not 44k..Max Epg and Aux for that number


    Still, that's a lot; but at least it's buffed dmg.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • odinforever20000odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,849 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    > @meimeitoo said:
    > odinforever20000 wrote: »
    >
    > meimeitoo wrote: »
    >
    > Do I see that correctly? Is that thing proc-ing for 43k?! That seems too much.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Um..where? 43k before debuffs? Or Mouse over?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > On the image posted above:

    Ah 34k not 44k..Max Epg and Aux for that number


    Still, that's a lot; but at least it's buffed dmg.

    Its not buffed. Thats Aux and EPG only, and its resitable.. But we'll see what the Dev have in store for this console..Im kinda curious.. They gonna nerf it into trash again of something else?

    The_Science_Channel_Signature_Gen_2_-_Jacobs_xSmall.png


    Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.


  • adz006adz006 Member Posts: 125 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    > @meimeitoo said:
    > odinforever20000 wrote: »
    >
    > meimeitoo wrote: »
    >
    > Do I see that correctly? Is that thing proc-ing for 43k?! That seems too much.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Um..where? 43k before debuffs? Or Mouse over?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > On the image posted above:

    Ah 34k not 44k..Max Epg and Aux for that number


    Still, that's a lot; but at least it's buffed dmg.

    Its not buffed. Thats Aux and EPG only, and its resitable.. But we'll see what the Dev have in store for this console..Im kinda curious.. They gonna nerf it into trash again of something else?

    All they need to do is nerf it for pvp, still no word from dev, really sad.....
  • odinforever20000odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,849 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    adz006 wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    > @meimeitoo said:
    > odinforever20000 wrote: »
    >
    > meimeitoo wrote: »
    >
    > Do I see that correctly? Is that thing proc-ing for 43k?! That seems too much.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Um..where? 43k before debuffs? Or Mouse over?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > On the image posted above:

    Ah 34k not 44k..Max Epg and Aux for that number


    Still, that's a lot; but at least it's buffed dmg.

    Its not buffed. Thats Aux and EPG only, and its resitable.. But we'll see what the Dev have in store for this console..Im kinda curious.. They gonna nerf it into trash again of something else?

    All they need to do is nerf it for pvp, still no word from dev, really sad.....
    @adz006
    Theres a change to it on Tribble. Its going to be a DoT (1 hit instead of an explosion) boosted by all damage buffs (which its not now) thats 50% shield pen..Ive been told these DoT stack..There is also a reduction in the damage

    Also been bumped from 10% to 20% chance for activation.

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  • adz006adz006 Member Posts: 125 Arc User
    adz006 wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    > @meimeitoo said:
    > odinforever20000 wrote: »
    >
    > meimeitoo wrote: »
    >
    > Do I see that correctly? Is that thing proc-ing for 43k?! That seems too much.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Um..where? 43k before debuffs? Or Mouse over?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > On the image posted above:

    Ah 34k not 44k..Max Epg and Aux for that number


    Still, that's a lot; but at least it's buffed dmg.

    Its not buffed. Thats Aux and EPG only, and its resitable.. But we'll see what the Dev have in store for this console..Im kinda curious.. They gonna nerf it into trash again of something else?

    All they need to do is nerf it for pvp, still no word from dev, really sad.....
    @adz006
    Theres a change to it on Tribble. Its going to be a DoT (1 hit instead of an explosion) boosted by all damage buffs (which its not now) thats 50% shield pen..Ive been told these DoT stack..There is also a reduction in the damage

    Also been bumped from 10% to 20% chance for activation.

    thanks for heads up, appreciate it will have to have a look. On the face of it sounds even worse lol but I think the new skill tree has some sort of gimmick that kills dots, will check it out
  • odinforever20000odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,849 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    adz006 wrote: »
    adz006 wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    > @meimeitoo said:
    > odinforever20000 wrote: »
    >
    > meimeitoo wrote: »
    >
    > Do I see that correctly? Is that thing proc-ing for 43k?! That seems too much.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Um..where? 43k before debuffs? Or Mouse over?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > On the image posted above:

    Ah 34k not 44k..Max Epg and Aux for that number


    Still, that's a lot; but at least it's buffed dmg.

    Its not buffed. Thats Aux and EPG only, and its resitable.. But we'll see what the Dev have in store for this console..Im kinda curious.. They gonna nerf it into trash again of something else?

    All they need to do is nerf it for pvp, still no word from dev, really sad.....
    @adz006
    Theres a change to it on Tribble. Its going to be a DoT (1 hit instead of an explosion) boosted by all damage buffs (which its not now) thats 50% shield pen..Ive been told these DoT stack..There is also a reduction in the damage

    Also been bumped from 10% to 20% chance for activation.

    thanks for heads up, appreciate it will have to have a look. On the face of it sounds even worse lol but I think the new skill tree has some sort of gimmick that kills dots, will check it out

    It does...And Drains Every 30 seconds.
    @adz006 there are a bunch of "Dot" killers in this game already..Not many Drain counters.
    Post edited by odinforever20000 on

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