LMAO you're crying because a Starfleet vessel of exploration rated as a science vessel has limited space for pure tactical systems?
The Nebula class is a Starfleet science vessel. It's not made for RAW ULTRA TACTICAL FIREPOWER like an Akira class ship.
The Nebula can still do a lot of yummy damage using science console and other consoles than just pure tactical.
There are different damage types in this game you know. I bet there can be Nebula class ships with 1 tactical console and it would still smack your TRIBBLE around if it's built right.
Not every Starfleet ship is a tactical ship. That's why some have few slots.
That's also why a Cruiser has a lot of Engineering consoles.
Science vessels have a lot of Science consoles.
Tactical ships can have a lot of Tactical consoles.
If the Nebula had 2 science consoles only, I'd understand your argument.
It's a science ship. Not a tactical ship.
Don't like it? Fly something else or re-consider your attitude towards builds and gaming style.
^ This. Sci ships have never been all about DPS; that's not their primary focus. Theirs is more exotic damage-oriented. You want to focus on raw DPS? Go with a tac ship. You want to be able to tank hard? Eng ship. Exotic damage/sci abilities/space magic? Sci ship. Pretty simple, really.
^ This. Sci ships have never been all about DPS; that's not their primary focus. Theirs is more exotic damage-oriented. You want to focus on raw DPS? Go with a tac ship. You want to be able to tank hard? Eng ship. Exotic damage/sci abilities/space magic? Sci ship. Pretty simple, really.
Actually properly set well Science can do a lot of RAW DPS, it's just not going to be main weapons. A few timed during the Crystaline event, I've scored plenty of 3rd and 2nd place and even first once or twice and that was with a torpedo heavy science pilot raptor and all my power dumped into AUX. And simply spammed GW3 and TR2.
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^ Right, and that's what I meant. Even tho that's not their primary focus, properly geared and set up, they can actually do some decent DPS. I've seen it done numerous times.
If you use weapons to deal damage on a sci vessl you're doing it wrong
Eh... what about sci/torp hybrids?
If torpedoes were that important, you were better off on another ship like an Escort, Raider or some Command-oriented ship if torpedoes were that central to you. I.e., if torps were your #1 means of producing damage, then choosing a Science Vessel was the wrong choice. You were never serious about Science to begin with, so why bother with a 5 SCI Console Ship with a Cmdr SCI station instead of a Cmdr TAC + 4 or 5 TAC Console ship, possibly with Command access?
If SCI was second fiddle, then you were better off on a Cmdr TAC+LtCmdr SCI ship. Because if weapons were more important than Science abilities, a 6 or even 7 weapon Science Vessel isn't helping you out.
Aren't sci ships supposed to do their damage with their sci abilities instead of their guns?
To be fair, thinking that is part of the problem too.
They aren't SUPPOSED to be anything. Science ships can be used in a variety of ways. Some of those ways may work better/faster/safer, but most of them will work at least adequately. They are what they are and it falls to us the users to figure out what we want to do within those constraints and if you're after max performance, to try different things.
I have an Annorax and a Paradox. They're both pretty forgiving of a number of possible builds, ranging from hodgepodge weapons loaded for no other purpose than set bonus gathering, to Exotic supported by torps, Torps with some exotic, beam boats, and cannon builds. About the only thing they can't do is play "pure carrier" because they only have one hanger. I also run an eternal as the main ship for my AOY captain. Personally I think it'll skunk the new T6s performance-wise, but not because of it having three tactical consoles rather than two.
These new ships ARE less flexible offensively, but they still open up some new design space and that's a good thing, because we already have three and even four tactical console science ships. If the OP had simply lead with "hey, these are pretty intensely 'pure science' so I don't think I'll be buying them" no one would have batted an eye. It was the assertion that Cryptic and seemingly everyone else who cared to comment were all doing it wrong because they didn't hew to some 'one true way of the triple tac console' was where the "are you derpy?" got started.
I mean come on, I basically said "hey, I like the fleet-ready model for zeni-store ships and this $5 surcharge per captain is lame for those of us with alts." People were largely civil about that being the more common sales model and I took the time to go double check that yes, that's how more of them have been released than I thought. I'm still not thrilled and I'm still really on the fence, but I'm not barking at the moon that people should categorically not buy these ships. I don't want to encourage Cryptic to keep doing this base model/fleet model thing, but I understand the need to give positive reinforcement when they deliver on KDF and Romulan ship options, particularly such desperately needed ship options.
Haven't particularly read this thread out thoroughly but... Strikes me that the OP doesnt have a clear understanding of how class ships work and their differences. That is a fundamental way the game works. Seems like with all his experience that would be evident.
Haven't particularly read this thread out thoroughly but...
Strikes me that the OP doesnt have a clear understanding of how class ships work and their differences. That is a fundamental way the game works.
Seems like with all his experience that would be evident.
You're making an assumption here. Which is dangerous. You are assuming the OP actually has and has done all the things he claims he has. If he really has all that ship and gear and he has played the game so much, why is he so very busy attempting to overawe everyone by repeatedly posting about his wealth of knowledge and experience? Seems a bit odd, don't it?
You, officerbatman81, do have a lot of experience and knowledge about this game. It is evident every time you post something about a particular piece of gear or a build setup. Your expertise and experience shows through in the syntax and grammar you use in your posts. You also do not immediately respond to each and every post in whatever thread you've started or are participating in. From what I've seen, this guy just wants people to think he is one of the Big Kids simply because he tells us he is.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
Thunderfoot, first off thank you for the kind words. Not use to those here, if that what those are.
Im deep down a nice guy and tend to take someones word, unless they prove untrustworthy like a few here, so i was just taking what the OP said at face value and play along.
But 47 toons and multiple accts, that is odd to say the least.
Dude, what 5 tac consoles are you talking about? The fleet science exploders outDPS your tac consoles altogether in one sweep. Learn to play/DPS, mate.
Nobody cares for base weapon damage aka Cat1.
Forgive my ignorance but what exactly is a fleet science exploder console?
Sci:
4x Restorative Particle Focuser (6% cat2 all dmg on use of heals, stacks up to 5x) where do you get these?
1x Exotic Particle Field Exciter (+75 EPG skill) and this?
Tac:
Chronometric Capacitor (This is actually a Tac console, but here for the set bonus that buffs exotic, as well as the +37.5 EPG)
Auxiliary Ejection Assembly (Movement buff, EPG-scaling attack, and +18% cat2 exotic damage passive) and this?
@officerbatman81
They are not kind. They are the truth. 'And the Truth shall set you free!'
I still own a Stonecold Steve Austin Tshirt which says "Don't Trust Anybody." lol
To wit:
A less than 500 post count and OP alleges he has been ingame since Season Seven?
Multiple accounts? Why'd they ban you, then?
47 Characters? All maxed out and optimized?
The quick, thin-skinned responses to anyone and everyone who disagrees with him?
I call B.S. On everything he has posted in this thread.
The sad part is people think they need to be bigger than they really are for the denizens of the InterWebs to like them. At a certain point in the tall tales, are they still lying to us or trying to justify to themselves?
I'm not anyone special enough to be worth impressing. I cannot supply someone's drug habit. I will not have sex with a stranger. I will not support someone by buying them food and drink. Therefore, lying to me serves no good purpose.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
All this talk about the Eternal and the Sutherland got me to thinking about Cryptic's pricing on this stuff. An 11 Console Fleet Level ship like the Eternal is 3,000 Zen. The 10 Console Sutherland is also 3,000 Zen but requires another 500 Zen Fleet Ship Module to bring it up to par with the other ship. There is no balance here.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
If you use weapons to deal damage on a sci vessl you're doing it wrong
Eh... what about sci/torp hybrids?
If torpedoes were that important, you were better off on another ship like an Escort, Raider or some Command-oriented ship if torpedoes were that central to you. I.e., if torps were your #1 means of producing damage, then choosing a Science Vessel was the wrong choice. You were never serious about Science to begin with, so why bother with a 5 SCI Console Ship with a Cmdr SCI station instead of a Cmdr TAC + 4 or 5 TAC Console ship, possibly with Command access?
If SCI was second fiddle, then you were better off on a Cmdr TAC+LtCmdr SCI ship. Because if weapons were more important than Science abilities, a 6 or even 7 weapon Science Vessel isn't helping you out.
Well I'd still throw torps on because they require no energy to do damage. Infact my SCI Raptor is loaded with 4 torps up from and 3 turrets with the weapon energy turned to the minimum and AUX turned up as far as I can while leaving engines and shields at 50.
Still doesn't do too shabby. Granted a command ship would do more, but still gets the job done.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
All this talk about the Eternal and the Sutherland got me to thinking about Cryptic's pricing on this stuff. An 11 Console Fleet Level ship like the Eternal is 3,000 Zen. The 10 Console Sutherland is also 3,000 Zen but requires another 500 Zen Fleet Ship Module to bring it up to par with the other ship. There is no balance here.
There is a Reddit discussion that mentions exactly this. Also, for the same price as unlocking all the faction ships, you can unlock the 3 31c ships and that console set is extremely good. I'm disappointed by the fact that you have to get a fleet module to upgrade any of the faction ships on every toon. Depending on how many toons, that can be costly.
If you were hoping to put your tactical commander at the helm of one of these beauties...NOT!
Actually, a TAC Captain has as much good justification to be in a Science Vessel. In some ways, they are better than a SCI Captain on a SCI Vessel.
If the build is Exotic Damage based, then the TAC Captain is better in some ways. Take note of the descriptions of the TAC Captain abilities and what they buff. Damage and Resists. Not energy weapons only, nor projectiles only. ALL forms of damage.
The thing with SCI Captain is that with Conservation of Energy captain trait, they potentially can have that exotic damage buff the entire time, while a TAC Captain has to line up and time his captain abilities for the right moments.
The problem however for a SCI Captain is can they get the aggro to draw fire and get those Conservation of Energy trait stacks? For a number of games, especially with some low performing PUGs, yes. But when you start rolling that SCI Captain in with some high performers, some of which are trying to get that aggro themselves, well, good luck. Conservation of Energy will then be completely irrelevant without aggro and the SCI Captain lacks any means of buffing Exotic Damage. Literally, CoE is the ONLY thing SCI Captain has to buff Exotic Damage. Without it, they are useless for buffing Exotic.
The TAC Captain and their buffs doesn't care. They can apply their FOMM, Tactical Fleet, APA, etc. and not care.
Some of the most fun I've had with a Science Vessel was my Vulcan Tac Captain using a Scryer. It was effective, tough, damaging.
In the end, no matter what i say, you will still bombard me with your counter arguments, cause of course everything i say is so wrong and ludicrous, and so different from your believes (again not everyone but enough of you)
As you likely know, this forum can be a well.. volatile place. A lot of discussions here turn into arguments. Simply put, there are just some people here that don't get a long too well.
Yet all of them have unanimously come together to disagree with you.. why do you think that is? How is it that no one.. not one person has agreed with you in 4 pages of replies? The problem is, you're claiming expertise on the subject, and then making claims that everyone knows are false. This greatly serves to undermine the credibility of your view point. There is nothing wrong with admitting you don't know something and asking for other opinions, it's supposed to be the entire point of discussion. If someone wants to just say something and not listen to any argument then they should post a blog and disable comments, not post it on a message board where anyone can reply.
How many people, all of whom have no motivation to lie to you, need to tell you that 'X is True and Y is false' for you to start to believe it? Not all of the replies to you have been hostile, but they have all disagreed with your opinion. I'm genuinely confused as to why you would absolutely refuse to even entertain the notion that you're incorrect in this situation. You're accusing everyone else of just disregarding your view and pushing their own opinion. In reality, the only person in this thread that has been guilty of this behavior is you yourself.
So sorry guys, but i stay behind my Point. And again, people who just want to Put Universal Consoles into ENG and TAC Consoles could still do so with that third TAC Console slot, so much more People could be happy with that ship, so why not?
If the shoe doesn't fit... is the point. Aka, if you're buying shoes with stiletto heels, then don't complain when that's not your thang; rather, purchase different shoes. So, yeah, if you want to fly with 5 Tact Consoles, plenty of those ships around. But there's no point beatching about how you can't turn your Science ship into a typical Tact Escort. That's just silly, honestly.
Think Science. Fit Science. The Cat1 dmg (as mentioned by someone else) is not what's it's really about with Tact Consoles. CrtH, of course, is. Which is where you need to think Science. There's plenty of Traits and such to get extra CrtH from Science. Enhanced Feedback Pulse leaps to mind, for instance (which I use purely for the added CrtH, with FBP1 even, and can achieve a wicked 43% CrtH, as a Fed Engineer, easily. I don't even care about its feedback-DPS). The Temporal Entanglement console does wonders for your CrtH too. And I'm sure many other tricks a real Science Captain can teach you (provided you're willing to take their advice, of course).
As yet another someone else mentioned, many do FaW, laced with a bit of exotic dmg. And that's fine for a lot of builds. But on a Science ship with only 2 Tact Consoles, logic mandates only 1 type of viable fit: Science.
One of my sci toons flies the eternal. The ship has three tac console slots which I filled with only two tac consoles by choice. I’m currently deciding if I should downgrade to one. Decisions, decisions.
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Interesting thought occurred to me here. As most know, I am a huge Nova class fan. I MAY, however, buy the new Nebula - I do love the Nebula class, and even if it doesn't become my mainstay ship the trait will be useful and I do feel that it would be a ship I would use occasionally.
However, in terms of the point of this thread, my usual choice of Sci ship, the FT5-U Nova has three tactical console slots and a Lt-Cmdr Tactical BOFF station. So whilst it isn't a T6 ship, does that - in the OP's opinion - make it superior to the new Nebula?
It's all relative. A LTC tac slot - which the T6 Nebula also has (LTC uni - yay!) - can be immensely helpful for your default grav well/torp ship as a TS III on top of a GV III with the grav torpedo can be very potent. The three tac consoles, though, don't do much as they don't boost the exotic damage and you don't use torpedoes on that build for the torpedo damage (which is mitigated by the NPC shield extravaganza anyway). However, the new Nebula and counterparts seem indeed to try to cater to a shield stripping/weapon damage build, as exotics ignore shields. But again, the third tactical console, on a sci ship, is just universal space and the nebula can do more with 4 eng anyway (LTC eng for EWP I in addition with TBR (+Graga Mal) and damage resistance makes her an excellent "melee" ship)
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Interesting thought occurred to me here. As most know, I am a huge Nova class fan. I MAY, however, buy the new Nebula - I do love the Nebula class, and even if it doesn't become my mainstay ship the trait will be useful and I do feel that it would be a ship I would use occasionally.
However, in terms of the point of this thread, my usual choice of Sci ship, the FT5-U Nova has three tactical console slots and a Lt-Cmdr Tactical BOFF station. So whilst it isn't a T6 ship, does that - in the OP's opinion - make it superior to the new Nebula?
Going by the OP's logic then yes the Nova is better because it's got more tac, but it's a ridiculous way of measuring science vessels against each other.
OP just doesn't seem to understand the concept of a science vessel in this game.
It doesn't really mater how many tac consoles you have, be it 5, 3 or only 2, if you're a science vessel then a large proportion of your damage will be from science magic, and maybe torps.
I fly a lot of science ships with 3 tac slots, but you know what....none of them use those slots for pure tac consoles, they are for uni or set piece consoles.
That's because I, along with everyone else here worked out a long time ago that a science vessels main attraction is it doesn't need guns to be effective at what it does.
If you want something that has at least 3 tac console slots because you absolutely need your energy weapons to be doing most of your damage then why are you even looking at a science vessel? There's plenty of other ships out there to cater to your needs; escorts, cruisers, destroyers.
It's like taking an 18-wheeler to a NASCAR race and complaining it won't stand a chance at wining, they are designed for totally different things.
As you always get told when doing any DIY on your house; use the right tool for the job. Expecting a heavy science vessel to be perform as a tactical ship is doing it all wrong. But that doesn't mean it can't be highly effective in other ways, you've just gotta be open to thinking outside the box.
Agreed, both posts on all counts and my Rhode Island is in fact a sci-ability focused torpedo boat with weapon power at bare minimum in favour of Auxiliary, which is set at 130 and partigen skill at, off the top of my head, 404.
I would simply be interested to hear the OP's view on this, with the reason he created this thread in the first place in mind.
Yes, i'd love to see what his/her usual science vessel build looks like, just out of interest. You can build any of the ships in this game any way you want but certain things just are not going to work for you if you've got the wrong base platform to start with.
I mean I've tried to build a sci/torp boat on a Vengenace and it just didn't work for me. Too big and slow and bulky and it didn't have enough science slots to boost my PEP torp's or grav well. But i didn't come on here ranting about how the Intel Dread is crappy because it only has 2 sci slots, I accepted it was wrong for the job and moved on/used a different build on it.
You "could" run the Nebula as a tac ship, but it wouldn't be anything like as powerful as it could be when run as a proper science based vessel. You'd be fooling yourself to think otherwise, but feel free to try it out by all means. We all learnt to fly our ships by testing things out, just don't attack the people who've been there already when they offer advise.
Agreed, both posts on all counts and my Rhode Island is in fact a sci-ability focused torpedo boat with weapon power at bare minimum in favour of Auxiliary, which is set at 130 and partigen skill at, off the top of my head, 404.
I would simply be interested to hear the OP's view on this, with the reason he created this thread in the first place in mind.
Yes, i'd love to see what his/her usual science vessel build looks like, just out of interest. You can build any of the ships in this game any way you want but certain things just are not going to work for you if you've got the wrong base platform to start with.
I mean I've tried to build a sci/torp boat on a Vengenace and it just didn't work for me. Too big and slow and bulky and it didn't have enough science slots to boost my PEP torp's or grav well. But i didn't come on here ranting about how the Intel Dread is crappy because it only has 2 sci slots, I accepted it was wrong for the job and moved on/used a different build on it.
You "could" run the Nebula as a tac ship, but it wouldn't be anything like as powerful as it could be when run as a proper science based vessel. You'd be fooling yourself to think otherwise, but feel free to try it out by all means. We all learnt to fly our ships by testing things out, just don't attack the people who've been there already when they offer advise.
Agreed - I view my torpedoes as a compliment to my sci abilities. Namely, GWIII, DRBII, and the Delphic Tear Generator do the majority of the damage with feedback pulse and Kemocite laced TSIII helping finish things off.
You should try a science pilot ship Reyan. I have it loaded with 4 torps up front then 3 omnis in the back and open front slot. Omni's are there just to keep a bit of pew pew on the target and most of the power is dumped into AUX and watch the fireworks. I also have the mirror Nova and I alternate between beam setup and torps for giggles. Even with beams, I dump the engine power into Aux and still rack up a decent amount of damage.
Still can't wait for a tier 6 Nova.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Agreed, both posts on all counts and my Rhode Island is in fact a sci-ability focused torpedo boat with weapon power at bare minimum in favour of Auxiliary, which is set at 130 and partigen skill at, off the top of my head, 404.
I would simply be interested to hear the OP's view on this, with the reason he created this thread in the first place in mind.
Yes, i'd love to see what his/her usual science vessel build looks like, just out of interest. You can build any of the ships in this game any way you want but certain things just are not going to work for you if you've got the wrong base platform to start with.
I mean I've tried to build a sci/torp boat on a Vengenace and it just didn't work for me. Too big and slow and bulky and it didn't have enough science slots to boost my PEP torp's or grav well. But i didn't come on here ranting about how the Intel Dread is crappy because it only has 2 sci slots, I accepted it was wrong for the job and moved on/used a different build on it.
You "could" run the Nebula as a tac ship, but it wouldn't be anything like as powerful as it could be when run as a proper science based vessel. You'd be fooling yourself to think otherwise, but feel free to try it out by all means. We all learnt to fly our ships by testing things out, just don't attack the people who've been there already when they offer advise.
Agreed - I view my torpedoes as a compliment to my sci abilities. Namely, GWIII, DRBII, and the Delphic Tear Generator do the majority of the damage with feedback pulse and Kemocite laced TSIII helping finish things off.
You should try a science pilot ship Reyan. I have it loaded with 4 torps up front then 3 omnis in the back and open front slot. Omni's are there just to keep a bit of pew pew on the target and most of the power is dumped into AUX and watch the fireworks. I also have the mirror Nova and I alternate between beam setup and torps for giggles. Even with beams, I dump the engine power into Aux and still rack up a decent amount of damage.
Still can't wait for a tier 6 Nova.
Sounds interesting, and I have the Tactical pilot ship on my Tac character - not sure about buying the Sci variant though.
As for a T6 Nova - that's not happening any time soon.
Really try one out Reyan. I have all 3 pilot ships and have all 3 set up differently for craps and giggles. My tac is loaded up with every single piece of mission reward tech I could stuff in it, so she's a rainbow ship of death. The engineering I said to hell with it and stuffed it with 4 turrets and 3 omnis, and it's actually quite tickling. The Sci boat like I said has 4 torps, and 3 omnis and she does quite well with TR1 and GW1.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Agreed, both posts on all counts and my Rhode Island is in fact a sci-ability focused torpedo boat with weapon power at bare minimum in favour of Auxiliary, which is set at 130 and partigen skill at, off the top of my head, 404.
I would simply be interested to hear the OP's view on this, with the reason he created this thread in the first place in mind.
Yes, i'd love to see what his/her usual science vessel build looks like, just out of interest. You can build any of the ships in this game any way you want but certain things just are not going to work for you if you've got the wrong base platform to start with.
I mean I've tried to build a sci/torp boat on a Vengenace and it just didn't work for me. Too big and slow and bulky and it didn't have enough science slots to boost my PEP torp's or grav well. But i didn't come on here ranting about how the Intel Dread is crappy because it only has 2 sci slots, I accepted it was wrong for the job and moved on/used a different build on it.
You "could" run the Nebula as a tac ship, but it wouldn't be anything like as powerful as it could be when run as a proper science based vessel. You'd be fooling yourself to think otherwise, but feel free to try it out by all means. We all learnt to fly our ships by testing things out, just don't attack the people who've been there already when they offer advise.
Agreed - I view my torpedoes as a compliment to my sci abilities. Namely, GWIII, DRBII, and the Delphic Tear Generator do the majority of the damage with feedback pulse and Kemocite laced TSIII helping finish things off.
You should try a science pilot ship Reyan. I have it loaded with 4 torps up front then 3 omnis in the back and open front slot. Omni's are there just to keep a bit of pew pew on the target and most of the power is dumped into AUX and watch the fireworks. I also have the mirror Nova and I alternate between beam setup and torps for giggles. Even with beams, I dump the engine power into Aux and still rack up a decent amount of damage.
Still can't wait for a tier 6 Nova.
Sounds interesting, and I have the Tactical pilot ship on my Tac character - not sure about buying the Sci variant though.
As for a T6 Nova - that's not happening any time soon.
Really try one out Reyan. I have all 3 pilot ships and have all 3 set up differently for craps and giggles. My tac is loaded up with every single piece of mission reward tech I could stuff in it, so she's a rainbow ship of death. The engineering I said to hell with it and stuffed it with 4 turrets and 3 omnis, and it's actually quite tickling. The Sci boat like I said has 4 torps, and 3 omnis and she does quite well with TR1 and GW1.
Blast you - sorely tempted to buy the Sci variant now (particularly with a possible Black Friday sale pending) and turn it into a sci-ability spewing fast torpedo boat!
You should, she's a bucket of fun. And the ability she offers is quite nice.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Agreed, both posts on all counts and my Rhode Island is in fact a sci-ability focused torpedo boat with weapon power at bare minimum in favour of Auxiliary, which is set at 130 and partigen skill at, off the top of my head, 404.
I would simply be interested to hear the OP's view on this, with the reason he created this thread in the first place in mind.
Yes, i'd love to see what his/her usual science vessel build looks like, just out of interest. You can build any of the ships in this game any way you want but certain things just are not going to work for you if you've got the wrong base platform to start with.
I mean I've tried to build a sci/torp boat on a Vengenace and it just didn't work for me. Too big and slow and bulky and it didn't have enough science slots to boost my PEP torp's or grav well. But i didn't come on here ranting about how the Intel Dread is crappy because it only has 2 sci slots, I accepted it was wrong for the job and moved on/used a different build on it.
You "could" run the Nebula as a tac ship, but it wouldn't be anything like as powerful as it could be when run as a proper science based vessel. You'd be fooling yourself to think otherwise, but feel free to try it out by all means. We all learnt to fly our ships by testing things out, just don't attack the people who've been there already when they offer advise.
Agreed - I view my torpedoes as a compliment to my sci abilities. Namely, GWIII, DRBII, and the Delphic Tear Generator do the majority of the damage with feedback pulse and Kemocite laced TSIII helping finish things off.
You should try a science pilot ship Reyan. I have it loaded with 4 torps up front then 3 omnis in the back and open front slot. Omni's are there just to keep a bit of pew pew on the target and most of the power is dumped into AUX and watch the fireworks. I also have the mirror Nova and I alternate between beam setup and torps for giggles. Even with beams, I dump the engine power into Aux and still rack up a decent amount of damage.
Still can't wait for a tier 6 Nova.
Sounds interesting, and I have the Tactical pilot ship on my Tac character - not sure about buying the Sci variant though.
As for a T6 Nova - that's not happening any time soon.
Really try one out Reyan. I have all 3 pilot ships and have all 3 set up differently for craps and giggles. My tac is loaded up with every single piece of mission reward tech I could stuff in it, so she's a rainbow ship of death. The engineering I said to hell with it and stuffed it with 4 turrets and 3 omnis, and it's actually quite tickling. The Sci boat like I said has 4 torps, and 3 omnis and she does quite well with TR1 and GW1.
Blast you - sorely tempted to buy the Sci variant now (particularly with a possible Black Friday sale pending) and turn it into a sci-ability spewing fast torpedo boat!
You can call it Nova or Rhodes Island to soften the blow..
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Comments
The Nebula class is a Starfleet science vessel. It's not made for RAW ULTRA TACTICAL FIREPOWER like an Akira class ship.
The Nebula can still do a lot of yummy damage using science console and other consoles than just pure tactical.
There are different damage types in this game you know. I bet there can be Nebula class ships with 1 tactical console and it would still smack your TRIBBLE around if it's built right.
Not every Starfleet ship is a tactical ship. That's why some have few slots.
That's also why a Cruiser has a lot of Engineering consoles.
Science vessels have a lot of Science consoles.
Tactical ships can have a lot of Tactical consoles.
If the Nebula had 2 science consoles only, I'd understand your argument.
It's a science ship. Not a tactical ship.
Don't like it? Fly something else or re-consider your attitude towards builds and gaming style.
Actually properly set well Science can do a lot of RAW DPS, it's just not going to be main weapons. A few timed during the Crystaline event, I've scored plenty of 3rd and 2nd place and even first once or twice and that was with a torpedo heavy science pilot raptor and all my power dumped into AUX. And simply spammed GW3 and TR2.
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If torpedoes were that important, you were better off on another ship like an Escort, Raider or some Command-oriented ship if torpedoes were that central to you. I.e., if torps were your #1 means of producing damage, then choosing a Science Vessel was the wrong choice. You were never serious about Science to begin with, so why bother with a 5 SCI Console Ship with a Cmdr SCI station instead of a Cmdr TAC + 4 or 5 TAC Console ship, possibly with Command access?
If SCI was second fiddle, then you were better off on a Cmdr TAC+LtCmdr SCI ship. Because if weapons were more important than Science abilities, a 6 or even 7 weapon Science Vessel isn't helping you out.
To be fair, thinking that is part of the problem too.
They aren't SUPPOSED to be anything. Science ships can be used in a variety of ways. Some of those ways may work better/faster/safer, but most of them will work at least adequately. They are what they are and it falls to us the users to figure out what we want to do within those constraints and if you're after max performance, to try different things.
I have an Annorax and a Paradox. They're both pretty forgiving of a number of possible builds, ranging from hodgepodge weapons loaded for no other purpose than set bonus gathering, to Exotic supported by torps, Torps with some exotic, beam boats, and cannon builds. About the only thing they can't do is play "pure carrier" because they only have one hanger. I also run an eternal as the main ship for my AOY captain. Personally I think it'll skunk the new T6s performance-wise, but not because of it having three tactical consoles rather than two.
These new ships ARE less flexible offensively, but they still open up some new design space and that's a good thing, because we already have three and even four tactical console science ships. If the OP had simply lead with "hey, these are pretty intensely 'pure science' so I don't think I'll be buying them" no one would have batted an eye. It was the assertion that Cryptic and seemingly everyone else who cared to comment were all doing it wrong because they didn't hew to some 'one true way of the triple tac console' was where the "are you derpy?" got started.
I mean come on, I basically said "hey, I like the fleet-ready model for zeni-store ships and this $5 surcharge per captain is lame for those of us with alts." People were largely civil about that being the more common sales model and I took the time to go double check that yes, that's how more of them have been released than I thought. I'm still not thrilled and I'm still really on the fence, but I'm not barking at the moon that people should categorically not buy these ships. I don't want to encourage Cryptic to keep doing this base model/fleet model thing, but I understand the need to give positive reinforcement when they deliver on KDF and Romulan ship options, particularly such desperately needed ship options.
Strikes me that the OP doesnt have a clear understanding of how class ships work and their differences. That is a fundamental way the game works. Seems like with all his experience that would be evident.
You, officerbatman81, do have a lot of experience and knowledge about this game. It is evident every time you post something about a particular piece of gear or a build setup. Your expertise and experience shows through in the syntax and grammar you use in your posts. You also do not immediately respond to each and every post in whatever thread you've started or are participating in. From what I've seen, this guy just wants people to think he is one of the Big Kids simply because he tells us he is.
Im deep down a nice guy and tend to take someones word, unless they prove untrustworthy like a few here, so i was just taking what the OP said at face value and play along.
But 47 toons and multiple accts, that is odd to say the least.
Forgive my ignorance but what exactly is a fleet science exploder console?
Sci:
4x Restorative Particle Focuser (6% cat2 all dmg on use of heals, stacks up to 5x) where do you get these?
1x Exotic Particle Field Exciter (+75 EPG skill) and this?
Tac:
Chronometric Capacitor (This is actually a Tac console, but here for the set bonus that buffs exotic, as well as the +37.5 EPG)
Auxiliary Ejection Assembly (Movement buff, EPG-scaling attack, and +18% cat2 exotic damage passive) and this?
They are not kind. They are the truth. 'And the Truth shall set you free!'
I still own a Stonecold Steve Austin Tshirt which says "Don't Trust Anybody." lol
To wit:
A less than 500 post count and OP alleges he has been ingame since Season Seven?
Multiple accounts? Why'd they ban you, then?
47 Characters? All maxed out and optimized?
The quick, thin-skinned responses to anyone and everyone who disagrees with him?
I call B.S. On everything he has posted in this thread.
The sad part is people think they need to be bigger than they really are for the denizens of the InterWebs to like them. At a certain point in the tall tales, are they still lying to us or trying to justify to themselves?
I'm not anyone special enough to be worth impressing. I cannot supply someone's drug habit. I will not have sex with a stranger. I will not support someone by buying them food and drink. Therefore, lying to me serves no good purpose.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Well I'd still throw torps on because they require no energy to do damage. Infact my SCI Raptor is loaded with 4 torps up from and 3 turrets with the weapon energy turned to the minimum and AUX turned up as far as I can while leaving engines and shields at 50.
Still doesn't do too shabby. Granted a command ship would do more, but still gets the job done.
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There is a Reddit discussion that mentions exactly this. Also, for the same price as unlocking all the faction ships, you can unlock the 3 31c ships and that console set is extremely good. I'm disappointed by the fact that you have to get a fleet module to upgrade any of the faction ships on every toon. Depending on how many toons, that can be costly.
Actually, a TAC Captain has as much good justification to be in a Science Vessel. In some ways, they are better than a SCI Captain on a SCI Vessel.
If the build is Exotic Damage based, then the TAC Captain is better in some ways. Take note of the descriptions of the TAC Captain abilities and what they buff. Damage and Resists. Not energy weapons only, nor projectiles only. ALL forms of damage.
The thing with SCI Captain is that with Conservation of Energy captain trait, they potentially can have that exotic damage buff the entire time, while a TAC Captain has to line up and time his captain abilities for the right moments.
The problem however for a SCI Captain is can they get the aggro to draw fire and get those Conservation of Energy trait stacks? For a number of games, especially with some low performing PUGs, yes. But when you start rolling that SCI Captain in with some high performers, some of which are trying to get that aggro themselves, well, good luck. Conservation of Energy will then be completely irrelevant without aggro and the SCI Captain lacks any means of buffing Exotic Damage. Literally, CoE is the ONLY thing SCI Captain has to buff Exotic Damage. Without it, they are useless for buffing Exotic.
The TAC Captain and their buffs doesn't care. They can apply their FOMM, Tactical Fleet, APA, etc. and not care.
Some of the most fun I've had with a Science Vessel was my Vulcan Tac Captain using a Scryer. It was effective, tough, damaging.
Particle focusers are from the fleet lab, Ejection assembly is from the Kelvin Constitution, info is from the wiki.
As you likely know, this forum can be a well.. volatile place. A lot of discussions here turn into arguments. Simply put, there are just some people here that don't get a long too well.
Yet all of them have unanimously come together to disagree with you.. why do you think that is? How is it that no one.. not one person has agreed with you in 4 pages of replies? The problem is, you're claiming expertise on the subject, and then making claims that everyone knows are false. This greatly serves to undermine the credibility of your view point. There is nothing wrong with admitting you don't know something and asking for other opinions, it's supposed to be the entire point of discussion. If someone wants to just say something and not listen to any argument then they should post a blog and disable comments, not post it on a message board where anyone can reply.
How many people, all of whom have no motivation to lie to you, need to tell you that 'X is True and Y is false' for you to start to believe it? Not all of the replies to you have been hostile, but they have all disagreed with your opinion. I'm genuinely confused as to why you would absolutely refuse to even entertain the notion that you're incorrect in this situation. You're accusing everyone else of just disregarding your view and pushing their own opinion. In reality, the only person in this thread that has been guilty of this behavior is you yourself.
If the shoe doesn't fit... is the point. Aka, if you're buying shoes with stiletto heels, then don't complain when that's not your thang; rather, purchase different shoes. So, yeah, if you want to fly with 5 Tact Consoles, plenty of those ships around. But there's no point beatching about how you can't turn your Science ship into a typical Tact Escort. That's just silly, honestly.
Think Science. Fit Science. The Cat1 dmg (as mentioned by someone else) is not what's it's really about with Tact Consoles. CrtH, of course, is. Which is where you need to think Science. There's plenty of Traits and such to get extra CrtH from Science. Enhanced Feedback Pulse leaps to mind, for instance (which I use purely for the added CrtH, with FBP1 even, and can achieve a wicked 43% CrtH, as a Fed Engineer, easily. I don't even care about its feedback-DPS). The Temporal Entanglement console does wonders for your CrtH too. And I'm sure many other tricks a real Science Captain can teach you (provided you're willing to take their advice, of course).
As yet another someone else mentioned, many do FaW, laced with a bit of exotic dmg. And that's fine for a lot of builds. But on a Science ship with only 2 Tact Consoles, logic mandates only 1 type of viable fit: Science.
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It's all relative. A LTC tac slot - which the T6 Nebula also has (LTC uni - yay!) - can be immensely helpful for your default grav well/torp ship as a TS III on top of a GV III with the grav torpedo can be very potent. The three tac consoles, though, don't do much as they don't boost the exotic damage and you don't use torpedoes on that build for the torpedo damage (which is mitigated by the NPC shield extravaganza anyway). However, the new Nebula and counterparts seem indeed to try to cater to a shield stripping/weapon damage build, as exotics ignore shields. But again, the third tactical console, on a sci ship, is just universal space and the nebula can do more with 4 eng anyway (LTC eng for EWP I in addition with TBR (+Graga Mal) and damage resistance makes her an excellent "melee" ship)
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Going by the OP's logic then yes the Nova is better because it's got more tac, but it's a ridiculous way of measuring science vessels against each other.
OP just doesn't seem to understand the concept of a science vessel in this game.
It doesn't really mater how many tac consoles you have, be it 5, 3 or only 2, if you're a science vessel then a large proportion of your damage will be from science magic, and maybe torps.
I fly a lot of science ships with 3 tac slots, but you know what....none of them use those slots for pure tac consoles, they are for uni or set piece consoles.
That's because I, along with everyone else here worked out a long time ago that a science vessels main attraction is it doesn't need guns to be effective at what it does.
If you want something that has at least 3 tac console slots because you absolutely need your energy weapons to be doing most of your damage then why are you even looking at a science vessel? There's plenty of other ships out there to cater to your needs; escorts, cruisers, destroyers.
It's like taking an 18-wheeler to a NASCAR race and complaining it won't stand a chance at wining, they are designed for totally different things.
As you always get told when doing any DIY on your house; use the right tool for the job. Expecting a heavy science vessel to be perform as a tactical ship is doing it all wrong. But that doesn't mean it can't be highly effective in other ways, you've just gotta be open to thinking outside the box.
Yes, i'd love to see what his/her usual science vessel build looks like, just out of interest. You can build any of the ships in this game any way you want but certain things just are not going to work for you if you've got the wrong base platform to start with.
I mean I've tried to build a sci/torp boat on a Vengenace and it just didn't work for me. Too big and slow and bulky and it didn't have enough science slots to boost my PEP torp's or grav well. But i didn't come on here ranting about how the Intel Dread is crappy because it only has 2 sci slots, I accepted it was wrong for the job and moved on/used a different build on it.
You "could" run the Nebula as a tac ship, but it wouldn't be anything like as powerful as it could be when run as a proper science based vessel. You'd be fooling yourself to think otherwise, but feel free to try it out by all means. We all learnt to fly our ships by testing things out, just don't attack the people who've been there already when they offer advise.
You should try a science pilot ship Reyan. I have it loaded with 4 torps up front then 3 omnis in the back and open front slot. Omni's are there just to keep a bit of pew pew on the target and most of the power is dumped into AUX and watch the fireworks. I also have the mirror Nova and I alternate between beam setup and torps for giggles. Even with beams, I dump the engine power into Aux and still rack up a decent amount of damage.
Still can't wait for a tier 6 Nova.
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Really try one out Reyan. I have all 3 pilot ships and have all 3 set up differently for craps and giggles. My tac is loaded up with every single piece of mission reward tech I could stuff in it, so she's a rainbow ship of death. The engineering I said to hell with it and stuffed it with 4 turrets and 3 omnis, and it's actually quite tickling. The Sci boat like I said has 4 torps, and 3 omnis and she does quite well with TR1 and GW1.
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You should, she's a bucket of fun. And the ability she offers is quite nice.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
You can call it Nova or Rhodes Island to soften the blow..