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New T6 Ships, Sutherland Class, Naj’sov Class and Laeosa Class Discussion
highlandrise
Member Posts: 354 Arc User
When i saw the announcement of the 3 new Science Ships i was like, YESSSSS Finaly T6 Science Ships for Romulans and KDF, sooo going to buy the full Bundle, BUT......now i just saw the Stats and GONE is all the excitement, seriously WTH? and i thought all new Ships are now somewhat Balanced when it comes to the Layout, but 2/TWO Tac Consoles?! And the Fleet one gets another ENG Slot? Sorry but THE HELL is this? This is the reason why i and so many others DONT touch any ship that has less than 3 Tac Console Slots with a 10 Meters Stick!
The Boff layout is ok BUT the Console Layout should be like this: 3 TAC / 3 ENG / 5 SCI and Fleet Version get's another ENG Slot OR at least 2 TAC / 3 ENG / 5 SCI and the Fleet Version get's another TAC Console and NOT yet another ENG Console! by all rights EVEN a Sci ship needs a little more OMPH for the Weapons than THIS!
Several Fleeties were allready talking about those ships when they saw the announcement, and i know that they switched out of other ships with less than 3 Tac Consoles, so their reactions should be similar
After People have waited for SO LONG for a T6 Science Ship for Roms and KDFs you finaly make them BUT with SUCH a layout? Thats like yet another Slap in the Face.......... CRYPTIC PLEASE, consider those changes so those ships look more attractive to more than just "some" People.
Either 3 Tac Consoles out of the box, or a third Tac Console with the Fleet Version, and so many People would love to buy them, including me, so PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEE?
UPDATE: After some Discussion here, ill admit that with the right Build, those ships of course can Perform well, never than the less its just not my cup of tea, so i will stay with my way of things, have fun to all who will buy those ships and make good use of them.
Also Changed the Title back to something "less aggresive" as someone suggested, you guys can go on talking about the ships, just leave me out, "all battles have to end at one point" so Qapla and LLAP.
The Boff layout is ok BUT the Console Layout should be like this: 3 TAC / 3 ENG / 5 SCI and Fleet Version get's another ENG Slot OR at least 2 TAC / 3 ENG / 5 SCI and the Fleet Version get's another TAC Console and NOT yet another ENG Console! by all rights EVEN a Sci ship needs a little more OMPH for the Weapons than THIS!
Several Fleeties were allready talking about those ships when they saw the announcement, and i know that they switched out of other ships with less than 3 Tac Consoles, so their reactions should be similar
After People have waited for SO LONG for a T6 Science Ship for Roms and KDFs you finaly make them BUT with SUCH a layout? Thats like yet another Slap in the Face.......... CRYPTIC PLEASE, consider those changes so those ships look more attractive to more than just "some" People.
Either 3 Tac Consoles out of the box, or a third Tac Console with the Fleet Version, and so many People would love to buy them, including me, so PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEE?
UPDATE: After some Discussion here, ill admit that with the right Build, those ships of course can Perform well, never than the less its just not my cup of tea, so i will stay with my way of things, have fun to all who will buy those ships and make good use of them.
Also Changed the Title back to something "less aggresive" as someone suggested, you guys can go on talking about the ships, just leave me out, "all battles have to end at one point" so Qapla and LLAP.
Post edited by highlandrise on
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yep, and with all the sets and non tact consoles that boost dmg these days, no one should have any problems getting enough to use two tact slot ships.
besides full on science ships are exactly what we needed on the kdf/rom side. we have high sci usage other ships already.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Stop measuring the effeciency of a ship by the amount of tac consoles. Science fleet exploders and Cat2 buffs are what you need.
At least the Fleet Version should get the third TAC Slot, anything else is just a nogo, besides, you want to use more Sci Boosting Universal Consoles? Well you can put that in that third Tac Console Slot too, no loss for you guys.
The Fact that the Fleet T5U Voquv got a Third Tac Console is the only reason why iam still using it, so yea that "little" difference is important for more than just "some" people.
Hmm, I'd guess you don't play a lot of pure exotic sci ships, and if you play any at all, it's as FaW spam backed by exotic abilities. This is important, because in a lot of heavily exotic sci ship playstyles, tac consoles are converted to universals, thus meaning the number of tac consoles is irrelevant. If they'd given us new cruisers or escorts with only 2 tac consoles, I'd worry, but if you want a sci ship with a lot of tac you can go for the Daemosh (ltcom tac/intel seat, battlecloak, 3 tac consoles (3/5/3), cross faction) or the Edoulg (ltcom temporal/lt intel, ltcom tac seat, hangar, 4 tac consoles (2/5/4), cross-faction).
As an example to illustrate, in case you can't visualize how a ship might operate without tac consoles, let me write out the console setup for my Edoulg (ISA 100k as a fed Eng, since that's a more familiar context):
2 Eng/5 Sci/4 Tac consoles
Eng:
Plasmonic Leech (Exchange) (Can also be Denuos console for set bonus, or other of my choice, since Aux power is ~130 anyway)
Quantum Deceleration Field Generator (Ship-unique, 15% cat2 exotic passive and 10% sci ability c/d reduction)
Sci:
4x Restorative Particle Focuser (6% cat2 all dmg on use of heals, stacks up to 5x)
1x Exotic Particle Field Exciter (+75 EPG skill)
Tac:
Chronometric Capacitor (This is actually a Tac console, but here for the set bonus that buffs exotic, as well as the +37.5 EPG)
Auxiliary Ejection Assembly (Movement buff, EPG-scaling attack, and +18% cat2 exotic damage passive)
Constriction Anchor (+24% cat2 exotic passive)
Delphic Tear Generator (+20% cat2 exotic/5% CrtD passive, gives a strong, clickable, EPG-scaling attack)
Thus, the tac consoles are still being used to improve the primary way this ship deals damage (GW3/SSV3/DRB2/etc). For the Nebula (or any of the new ships), the universals in the Tac slots would just move to engineering, with the same net effect.
The new sci ships can hold their own for damage, and are perfectly attractive to people who know how to use them and who are willing to put in the effort to build them correctly. They're not designed to be Scim-killers or to unseat something like the Arbiter for beam damage, so it's an uphill battle for dps to try and build them to do that.
Learn 2 science.... or stop feelin an insane need to min/max dps every gods damned thing with some critwhore built
Nobody cares for base weapon damage aka Cat1.
So sorry guys, but i stay behind my Point. And again, people who just want to Put Universal Consoles into ENG and TAC Consoles could still do so with that third TAC Console slot, so much more People could be happy with that ship, so why not?
iam far away from min maxing, and i do know how to "science" but i have my preferences, you have yours, so keep yours for yourself if the only thing you can do here is to attack me.
This is a science oriented ship and for more tactical options you'd better go temporal, Oddy, or lockbox.
And AGAIN, you don't need the tactical consoles AT ALL to achieve an overwhelming performance.
like i said in a post before, i do know how to play, dont worry, and the "outdps" thingy, you may think so, others disagree, many people made many tests, and came up with many different results, i know enough people who eat Tactical Cubes ALONE for breakfast, and they use FIVE Spire Tac Consoles, so you may disagree, but i believe hard facts more than what people say.
Makes no sense for you, i respect your oppinion, but i dont have to share it, besides you guys talk about Universal Consoles all the time, well you could put them in that third Tac Console and would have what you want, others like me could put 3 Tac Consoles in there and be also happy, but i think some people just have to say "Nay" no matter what.
You can stand by your point all you want, but that doesn't keep your point from being ludicrous. There are only so many ways to distribute 11 points across 3 categories. They don't need to be further limiting themselves ruling out combinations just because Highlandrise is set in his ways and gets anxiety when faced with the possibility of having to learn something new.
And FFS, don't go slinging around "I have 47 captains" like that's some sort of general indicator of competence or mental flexibility. It's neither. No one serious about shipcraft is impressed because its ($&!^ing UNRELEATED.
Yeah that seems pretty true.
The number of Tactical consoles do not matter for these ships given how small the actual bonus Tactical consoles really give. The one of the top Fed DPS cruisers only has 2 Tactical consoles for example.
Building a Science ship is different from building a Tactical-oriented cruiser, or escort. There are way more (better) options to Tactical consoles irregardless of whether you are min-maxing DPS or not for these kinds of ships.
These ships are fine. Just because you've been playing since Season 7 doesn't make you right.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
This also does not include many REP consoles [all of which offer 2, 3 or even 4 mods in one] or other in mission reward as either Universal or Science Console's that also provide a +20% damage type buff to energy weapon's types in addition to 2 or more other area's.
One relatively recent example is the Console - Universal - Quantum Phase Converter Mk XII like in Future Proof which also offered something similar for Disruptor's in the last FE being added to Future Proof. There was also various weapon or gear sets from various missions or reputations that can boost different skills or abilities further. Dyson REP console that also boosts Proton damage, Nukara REP console expands drain & exotic damage + shield power & weapon's accuracy, while Iconian REP console expands Hull & Shield healing + All Damage boost.
There are also many Fleet console's in Engineering & Science that offer multiple boosts to different abilities that help you get more out of what you weapons you have while also enhancing you Science Ship with a focus of control & exotic damage abilities. An Elite Fleet Warp Core with AMP or +66% Power Transfer Rate can help in that regard. The focus of Science ships is exotic, drain or control damage abilities with deflector powers (which they have two) and energy weapons simply compliment the damage done by feedback pulse, gravity well, tyken's rift, to name but a few of the numerous Science abilities available.
I think the 3 new Science Ships look fabulous and hope the vast majority of Captain's are very excited to see them come onto the scene. In addition to the redesign of the T5 Nebula class Science Vessel that was also released.
Call me ludicrous or whatever you want if that makes you happy, but know this, its by far not just "Highlandrise" who has this oppinion, not even close and the last part of your comment the "($&!^ing UNRELEATED." yea cursing and swearing makes your post more valid.
Again, i saw what i saw, people do with those tactical consoles what you deny, but have your way. One can build a Tactical oriinted Cruiser, Escort AND even Science Ship, maybe thats not what you do but enough others do it, and they are happy with it, so whats the problem? And just because your opinnion differs from mine, does not make you right either.
BTW, whenever i open a new Topic on the forums, iam quickly reminded why thats not such a good idea (and why the majority of people stay away all together), cant say a thing without being attack from people with other oppinions, you have yours i have mine, you dont give a damn about my oppinion, fine i dont give a damn about yours than? Still no reason to attack me, so get down from your damn high horses you self proclaimed Pros.
Then maybe it's good if you can do some of your own research and testing so that you'll know exactly what you are missing from the absence of 1 Tactical console.
I'd start by reading up on damage categories and how they are applied to the damage formulas.
Now compare the potential damage loss of 1 Tactical console (bear in mind only Science ships only get 6 weapon slots to benefit from those consoles' damage buff) vs gains from Embassy Consoles, cat 2 universal console buffs, Sensor Analysis and Secondary Deflector and draw your own conclusions.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
yes, yes, the internet is mean and that doesn't make it wrong. and you can build a ship one way. what your missing is that that one way, which your pushing more then ex druggie pushing jesus, is far from the only way.
and crying cause everyone disagrees with you doesn't make people think your any less wrong.
andn I'm from from a pro in fact I'm terrible but even I can see your point is flawed.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
I wouldn't worry too much. there are only so many cruiser they can release before people stop buying.... and if cryptic wants things to go that way they'll make sure they have reason even if they have to make them.
besides that groups isn't nearly as large as they used to me. real ship builder like new things to play with and dirty casuals like me like theme more then minmaxing anyway.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
It makes it more colorful, which is mostly because there ought to be some entertainment value in this thread and really, you' haven't brought it. I've haven't seen enough of a pattern yet to gauge if you are ludicrous, but your belief that ships need to have even less variety because you don't like not having a certain minimum number of X console? Yeah. Ludicrous, and I hope in your heart of hearts you know that. And if you're gonna try some half-baked appeal to authority, NUMBER OF CAPTAINS ain't it. Oh and this new tact, of "there's a silent body standing behind me and that makes me right"? It ain't any better.
Really, I look forward to a more interesting discussion of pros and conns of the new ships from you. Put the weak start aside and try again.
I'm not going to attack you man.. no need.
I am going to say this respectfully though, and please assume that tone when reading this. You obviously seem to know what's what when it comes to standard 'non science' DPS builds. For that purpose, the things you are saying are spot on, but Science is a totally different animal. Again, I say this respectfully, but you're quite a ways off when it comes to how to get optimal performance from Science Vessels. It's a completely different setup then other professions, most Science players don't even put Cat1 Tac Consoles in those slots anyway. The normal convention is to use Universal Consoles there so you can stack as many Science consoles as possible for things like Exotic Damage, Drain, and Holds.
I'm not attacking you here, but you're way out in left field on this one, the layout of the new Science Vessels is actually quite potent. I highly recommend you listen to guys like @e30ernest, he can help set you straight on 'how to science.' Dude knows his stuff.. give what he's saying a chance.
The new ships are awesome.
Since Season 5 here (launch of f2p)...and seconded on the sci t6 Odyssey, Ernest... it's the highest (dps) scoring ship on any of my toons, currently having a 128k uploaded parse and a 132k parse in an archived combatlog file.
On 2 vs 3 tac consoles, an example: Beam at 500 DPV, mk12 purple tac console giving 30% (of 500), so 150. 1st console gives 30%, next console gives 150/650 or 23%, and a 3rd would give 150/800 or 18.75%, etc. Then consider that 500 DPV going up to, say, 1000 after weapon system power is figured in. Those same 3 consoles become 150/1000 (15%), 150/1150 (13%) and 150/1300 (11.5%) All of those numbers are before anything other than the base weapon DPV and system power are included, with any additional damage source serving to further dilute each tac console.
The above is a napkin-math version of why more tac consoles can mean less due to saturation.
That aside i have to say anyone who can't fly a science ship successfully without tactical consoles doesn't deserve to fly one.
And a ship with 3-4 embassy consoles, 15-20k fbp damage, intel seating, faw/apo3, etc... High number of tac consoles merely correlates with high damage, rather than causing it. 5 tac consoles won't fix damage for someone with subpar gear, a hodgepodge of abilities, poor ship trait access, or the inability to keep weapons on target. The people you see 'eating' tac cubes have a heck of a lot of other things going for them than just the tac consoles.
All, save a playstyle using tac slots as universal and relying primarily on abilities to do damage rather than weapons.
BTW this is one ship so lighten up, more will come or already exist so pick something else.