So what are the existing Science ships with three or more Tac consoles, and how would you outfit them so that having those particular flavors of console is significant? There aren't that many tac-specific consoles people pine for, so I'm guessing we're talking Vulnerability Locators and maybe something very specific with the Multi-Conduit Energy Relay (Phaser & Disruptor damage; Photon damage; Radiation damage), the Harmonic Resonance Relay (Disruptor damage; Transphasic damage; Armor penetration) or the Chronometic Capacitor (Polaron Damage; Weapon Power; EPG; Torpedo Weapon Damage). But each of those is pretty much self-contained, so you wouldn't necessarily need two more slots to go with it...
I know the Paradox allows triple Tac consoles, and with 4/3 weapon slots I've even tried it out as something more akin to a beam boat with some angry black magic up it's sleeve, but the scarcity of Tac seating really capped its performance and eventually I moved on to a rainbow of AOE torpedoes (which in turn let me focus my power distribution on exceptionally lethal black magic).
I'm not much for getting fancy. If it was me, I'd probably try to go with tac ads that enhanced torps while trying to do what I could to take down an enemies shields with sci. That is a huge oversimplification, I admit. Nor am I the best guy for builds. It's just what I would do right now. I could see three tac consoles as useful there.
Qapla'!
Thing is even with 3 tac consoles all buffing torps you're still probably not going to get a huge boost out of them. The real big tactical buffs come from the 4-5 tac console ships like escorts etc. Those can really stack up the tac buffs on energy and torp weapons.
A science ship can probably in my view always do more damage using those slots for uni and set piece consoles than it can by stacking tac stuff in them. You've also got the issue of not having enough tac boff powers to synergise with those few tac consoles as well, so you're fighting an uphill battle just to get the best from your build, that's before the enemy is shooting at you.
Sci ships that do have 3+ tac consoles are things like the Aventine Vesta, the Eternal, the fleet Scryer & Pathfinder, Paradox, Daemosh. But they are still mostly sci vessels.
The Nebula is a "hard" science vessel, it'll need to get most of its damage from wizardry, not from it's guns; that to me makes it way more challenging to fly with.
The ship trait and console suggest it is meant as drain boat. It's imho either shield/energy drains + torps or an exotic damage built.
If you want torps + drains the 3rd tac console IS a big deal. Of course one can ignore the trait and console and just built it for space magic. 3/5/3 would have been the better and more flexible console layout.
My answer still being: By 'big deal' you mean a third Vulnerability Locator or Exploiter giving 33% cat 1 damage bonus (on a weapon that's already at about 440 cat 1, so a real damage gain of around 7%) and either 2% crtH or 9% CrtD?
'Cause honestly, that sounds like the single least important console on the entire ship. And if not a vulnerability console, then what? Because I genuinely want to know what I'm overlooking if there's a hidden superweapon lurking out there in the underbrush.
So what are the existing Science ships with three or more Tac consoles, and how would you outfit them so that having those particular flavors of console is significant? There aren't that many tac-specific consoles people pine for, so I'm guessing we're talking Vulnerability Locators and maybe something very specific with the Multi-Conduit Energy Relay (Phaser & Disruptor damage; Photon damage; Radiation damage), the Harmonic Resonance Relay (Disruptor damage; Transphasic damage; Armor penetration) or the Chronometic Capacitor (Polaron Damage; Weapon Power; EPG; Torpedo Weapon Damage). But each of those is pretty much self-contained, so you wouldn't necessarily need two more slots to go with it...
I know the Paradox allows triple Tac consoles, and with 4/3 weapon slots I've even tried it out as something more akin to a beam boat with some angry black magic up it's sleeve, but the scarcity of Tac seating really capped its performance and eventually I moved on to a rainbow of AOE torpedoes (which in turn let me focus my power distribution on exceptionally lethal black magic).
I'm not much for getting fancy. If it was me, I'd probably try to go with tac ads that enhanced torps while trying to do what I could to take down an enemies shields with sci. That is a huge oversimplification, I admit. Nor am I the best guy for builds. It's just what I would do right now. I could see three tac consoles as useful there.
Qapla'!
Thing is even with 3 tac consoles all buffing torps you're still probably not going to get a huge boost out of them. The real big tactical buffs come from the 4-5 tac console ships like escorts etc. Those can really stack up the tac buffs on energy and torp weapons.
A science ship can probably in my view always do more damage using those slots for uni and set piece consoles than it can by stacking tac stuff in them. You've also got the issue of not having enough tac boff powers to synergise with those few tac consoles as well, so you're fighting an uphill battle just to get the best from your build, that's before the enemy is shooting at you.
Sci ships that do have 3+ tac consoles are things like the Aventine Vesta, the Eternal, the fleet Scryer & Pathfinder, Paradox, Daemosh. But they are still mostly sci vessels.
The Nebula is a "hard" science vessel, it'll need to get most of its damage from wizardry, not from it's guns; that to me makes it way more challenging to fly with.
To be clear, I'm not worried about getting the third console. I was just thinking of how I would probably try to use it.
I honestly think the thread's original discussion ended on the first page when a forum moderator laid out how captains of science ships rarely use the tactical console slots... as tactical console slots. An additional tactical console slot, no matter how it's spun, would like be treated as another universal slot by dedicated science captains with the slotting of a third universal console. As if having two universal consoles not taking up a science or engineering slot wasn't itself boosting the ship's potential, a third would practically be broken.
"someone pvp that guy so we can feast on his tears (or something like that)"
Actually what I said was someone pvpeen you so you can learn that your assumptions are hugely incorrect about the whole 2 tac console thing, THEN we'd feast on tears and bits of ego..
The point was to show you that you are operating from a position that can be proven wrong.
I honestly think the thread's original discussion ended on the first page when a forum moderator laid out how captains of science ships rarely use the tactical console slots... as tactical console slots. An additional tactical console slot, no matter how it's spun, would like be treated as another universal slot by dedicated science captains with the slotting of a third universal console. As if having two universal consoles not taking up a science or engineering slot wasn't itself boosting the ship's potential, a third would practically be broken.
Well, now that I'm more clear that some people are operating Drain + Torpedo builds that likely use triple Vulnerability Exploiters (exploiters are sorta nifty if you have the science skill capstone Probability Manipulation in your back pocket) I can see where the impulse to have three tac-as-tac consoles is at least coming from. I'm fuzzy if its the best choice for those slots and that loadout even when you do have the option, but I see how people might cling to it.
Unless I was sitting on a whole lot of Superior Romulan Operative BOffs, I'd be more likely to skip the Vulnerability consoles entirely, build around one (and only one) of the three other tac consoles I listed earlier, and grab Krenim (cooldown bonus) BOffs instead.
Holy **** man......went to bed, came back just to see that half the forum here jumps at my throat, many of you (not all) claiming that iam SOOOO wrong, and you are SOOOO right, so many posts that iam not starting to quote them. All who say "bla bla 47 char means nothing, you dont focus" or whatever, give me a fu*** break. ALL of those 47 chars are basically MAXED in everything, all 60, all maxed R&D (level20) all maxed reputation, all at least 3-4 Specialization done, all with their own unique Ship and either Rep, lockbox or equivalent Gear. And my Second Account (Support Account) with another 18 Characters (all 60)? lets not even mention that (ups i did it).
I Probably spend way more time (probably more than its good for me) than some of you together! The Fact alone that my 2 Accounts were BANNED some times earlier cause i was accused of botting is a SAD but strong indication for that, in the end it was solved with them admiting that my playtimes are "very unusual" and they monitored me for around 2 Weeks Playing around over 18 Hours per DAY, call me a freak, i probably am, but NO ONE of you can tell me that iam new, that i dont know what iam doing, and that iam not testing around stuff, i bet most of you did not spend nearly as much time with sto as i, or EVEN my fiancee who also plays sto and has a similar ammount of chars and playtime. So stop acting so conceited, like you are all sooooo much better than me or anyone who does not share your oppinion, talking about oppinion, i CANT remember having said anything about my oppinion being better than yours, its just ONE of many maybe not better, maybe not worse, but DIFFERENT.
There's a good English expression: "If you only have a hammer, everything looks like a nail." Aka, if you're going to treat every ship as if it were an Escort, you're bound to run into a wall of frustration and error. Citing how many toons you have, or gear, or how many reps you finished, or that several of your accounts gor banned, and calling ppl trolls, none of that really detracts one iota from the fact that you stubbornly want to apply your hammer, whereas clearly another tool is required. And so you keep running into a brick wall here. And such frustration is understandable, but, ultimately, squarely on you.
Or you could do something as radical as, I dunno, widen your horizon, maybe?! There's an excellent ingame Science channel; and even here many Sci Captains would be willing to give you some pointers. And perhaps your mind will open to a whole spectrum of different fitting models, ones you had never considered before... and which can actually make your Nebula work, even with only 2 Tact Consoles. Your choice.
@highlandrise
Good call on the new thread name. Expect some lingering heat from earlier in the comments, but it will subside. Soft style ...
So let me ask, what exact build would you put to work with the different console layout? I mean, if you have a definite plan, I would like to see it. I'd do a torp drain build, but I might get a lot better ideas from you, and if I don't ask, I won't find out.
Good call on the new thread name. Expect some lingering heat from earlier in the comments, but it will subside. Soft style...
Yes, credit where credit is due: we have a proper thread title again.
So let me ask, what exact build would you put to work with the different console layout? I mean, if you have a definite plan, I would like to see it. I'd do a torp drain build, but I might get a lot better ideas from you, and if I don't ask, I won't find out.
Good call on the new thread name. Expect some lingering heat from earlier in the comments, but it will subside. Soft style...
Yes, credit where credit is due: we have a proper thread title again.
So let me ask, what exact build would you put to work with the different console layout? I mean, if you have a definite plan, I would like to see it. I'd do a torp drain build, but I might get a lot better ideas from you, and if I don't ask, I won't find out.
Well, amusingly, trying to figure out what true Tac consoles are actually worth sloting on a science torpedo boat has lead me to re-rig my Pardox for the Chronometric Converter and its full (4/4) set and set bonus. Them's some nice buffs and that set-buffed Krenim Chronoton Torpedo makes a wicked tail gun (boom! 50% chance of 100% shield penetration and a slow - pretty ideal for a rear-facing torp). I wanted to carry some Agony Phasers in honor of it being an ISS ship, but the Polaron set is just too good.
Honestly, I just don't have room for a bunch of Tac-specific consoles. I have too many cool universal slot toys .
Well, amusingly, trying to figure out what true Tac consoles are actually worth sloting on a science torpedo boat has lead me to re-rig my Pardox for the Chronometric Converter and its full (4/4) set and set bonus. Them's some nice buffs and that set-buffed Krenim Chronoton Torpedo makes a wicked tail gun (boom! 50% chance of 100% shield penetration and a slow - pretty ideal for a rear-facing torp). I wanted to carry some Agony Phasers in honor of it being an ISS ship, but the Polaron set is just too good.
Honestly, I just don't have room for a bunch of Tac-specific consoles. I have too many cool universal slot toys .
I agree, it's a great set on science-focused ships. I rounded it out with Vaadwaur polaron on my Recluse, and also added the Delta Ordinance set on my Tarantula. I also used it as the basis of my main set-up on my T6 TOS Connie. Lots of fun synergies when you combine this set with certain traits and abilities. Good times.
"I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am."
Just out of idle curiosity (and current lack of sciency gear for my roms) I actually outfitted a Laeosa as a FaW boat, with top 2 sci seats taken by the traited FBP and took it to ISA, CCA and Tau Dewa with parser on. 40%+ CrtH.
Granted, a properly sciency Nebula on my Fed sci out-DPSes it anyway, (60k vs 20k with mostly mk XII gear on both) but lack of crits isn't the reason.
I was impressed with both the KDF and RR science ships... the laeosa seems quite tanky. Hope the cloak gets fixed soon for the klink one tho, still a nice solid ship even w/o it
I'm currently fiddling around with the Romulan one. And the results are encouraging. Quite fun to play. Not sure about the KDF version. My orignal idea was to use it drain/torp boat with the new Nausicaan set as starting point.
Considering the boff/console layout that's a bad idea. Ah well, back to the drawing board.
Dude, what 5 tac consoles are you talking about? The fleet science exploders outDPS your tac consoles altogether in one sweep. Learn to play/DPS, mate.
Nobody cares for base weapon damage aka Cat1.
Forgive my ignorance but what exactly is a fleet science exploder console?
Sci:
4x Restorative Particle Focuser (6% cat2 all dmg on use of heals, stacks up to 5x) where do you get these?
1x Exotic Particle Field Exciter (+75 EPG skill) and this?
Tac:
Chronometric Capacitor (This is actually a Tac console, but here for the set bonus that buffs exotic, as well as the +37.5 EPG)
Auxiliary Ejection Assembly (Movement buff, EPG-scaling attack, and +18% cat2 exotic damage passive) and this?
I know someone has already gotten to (part) of this, but since the original was my post, here's the detailed explanation:
You can craft these yourself once you reach level 15 in the Science R&D school, but the 'easier' way is to use (a lot) of ec to buy one off the exchange
I'm currently fiddling around with the Romulan one. And the results are encouraging. Quite fun to play. Not sure about the KDF version. My orignal idea was to use it drain/torp boat with the new Nausicaan set as starting point.
Considering the boff/console layout that's a bad idea. Ah well, back to the drawing board.
Just out of idle curiosity (and current lack of sciency gear for my roms) I actually outfitted a Laeosa as a FaW boat, with top 2 sci seats taken by the traited FBP and took it to ISA, CCA and Tau Dewa with parser on. 40%+ CrtH.
Granted, a properly sciency Nebula on my Fed sci out-DPSes it anyway, (60k vs 20k with mostly mk XII gear on both) but lack of crits isn't the reason.
I don't see any reason why the Nebula would out-DPS the Laeosa. They are basically the same ship, except the Romulan version gets the Romulan Battlecloak and Singularity powers with a bit less power output. The Laeosa looks to be the significantly tankier boat(can use Valdore console) and can work with the FBP meta a little better because of that. I would be tempted to use the LtC Universal seat as Engineering to support this and use the LtC. Temp/Eng seat with my temporal powers(Channeled Deconstruction I/Rapid Decay I/Recursive Shearing I). The Commander Sci seat can be setup with Hazard Emitters I/Subspace Vortex I or Destabilized Resonance Beam II/Feedback Pulse II/Gravity Well III. This leaves the Tac end a little light with just Tactical Team I and FAW I. I know these ships are specialized in draining, but at your dps level, not much is going to last long enough for that too be all that effective. The only places I can think of are the end bosses of BDA/E or HSE.
Just out of idle curiosity (and current lack of sciency gear for my roms) I actually outfitted a Laeosa as a FaW boat, with top 2 sci seats taken by the traited FBP and took it to ISA, CCA and Tau Dewa with parser on. 40%+ CrtH.
Granted, a properly sciency Nebula on my Fed sci out-DPSes it anyway, (60k vs 20k with mostly mk XII gear on both) but lack of crits isn't the reason.
I don't see any reason why the Nebula would out-DPS the Laeosa. They are basically the same ship,
They are. The builds I tested them with were completely different though.
For Laeosa I simply took all the gear from the mirror Ha'Feh that alt normally flies (MK XII Iconian set I still haven't got around to upgrade, locators, etc.) and set it up as a beamboat that also FBPs.
For Nebula it was chronometric and quantum phase, weapons, a sciency mix of deflector/engine/core/shield and research lab consoles. A grav well build that also fires torps (and big quantum phase beam.)
Both could be upgraded/optimised, but I won't bother with beam Laeosa too much, I just wanted to see how that would work.
I found the Nebula works wonders as a drain boat. You can stack a tonne of drain on it when you add in that special console. Tried it as an all turret drainer and it was not bad, TRIBBLE things down in seconds but didn't have the firepower to actually do more than tickle stuff. Then swapped to a drain torp boat and had a bit more oomph and I think that's the direction I'll head in now. R&D lab consoles let you double up on drains or split with EPG or CtrlX so you could stack quite a lot of science into it. The console it comes with lets you stack even more drains because it can be used somewhere you wouldn't normally be able to fit any drain boosts (e.g in an eng slot). Combo of a Terran deflector and core plus Temporal shields and crafted engines with drainX mod helps push that side nice and high.
Just trying to find that sweet spot for drainX so I can concentrate on boosting EPG up a bit to help with exotics.
Comments
Thing is even with 3 tac consoles all buffing torps you're still probably not going to get a huge boost out of them. The real big tactical buffs come from the 4-5 tac console ships like escorts etc. Those can really stack up the tac buffs on energy and torp weapons.
A science ship can probably in my view always do more damage using those slots for uni and set piece consoles than it can by stacking tac stuff in them. You've also got the issue of not having enough tac boff powers to synergise with those few tac consoles as well, so you're fighting an uphill battle just to get the best from your build, that's before the enemy is shooting at you.
Sci ships that do have 3+ tac consoles are things like the Aventine Vesta, the Eternal, the fleet Scryer & Pathfinder, Paradox, Daemosh. But they are still mostly sci vessels.
The Nebula is a "hard" science vessel, it'll need to get most of its damage from wizardry, not from it's guns; that to me makes it way more challenging to fly with.
My answer still being: By 'big deal' you mean a third Vulnerability Locator or Exploiter giving 33% cat 1 damage bonus (on a weapon that's already at about 440 cat 1, so a real damage gain of around 7%) and either 2% crtH or 9% CrtD?
'Cause honestly, that sounds like the single least important console on the entire ship. And if not a vulnerability console, then what? Because I genuinely want to know what I'm overlooking if there's a hidden superweapon lurking out there in the underbrush.
To be clear, I'm not worried about getting the third console. I was just thinking of how I would probably try to use it.
Qapla'!
Actually what I said was someone pvpeen you so you can learn that your assumptions are hugely incorrect about the whole 2 tac console thing, THEN we'd feast on tears and bits of ego..
The point was to show you that you are operating from a position that can be proven wrong.
Well, now that I'm more clear that some people are operating Drain + Torpedo builds that likely use triple Vulnerability Exploiters (exploiters are sorta nifty if you have the science skill capstone Probability Manipulation in your back pocket) I can see where the impulse to have three tac-as-tac consoles is at least coming from. I'm fuzzy if its the best choice for those slots and that loadout even when you do have the option, but I see how people might cling to it.
Unless I was sitting on a whole lot of Superior Romulan Operative BOffs, I'd be more likely to skip the Vulnerability consoles entirely, build around one (and only one) of the three other tac consoles I listed earlier, and grab Krenim (cooldown bonus) BOffs instead.
The OP stil has yet to explain why HE wants to use 3 tac consoles.
My character Tsin'xing
There's a good English expression: "If you only have a hammer, everything looks like a nail." Aka, if you're going to treat every ship as if it were an Escort, you're bound to run into a wall of frustration and error. Citing how many toons you have, or gear, or how many reps you finished, or that several of your accounts gor banned, and calling ppl trolls, none of that really detracts one iota from the fact that you stubbornly want to apply your hammer, whereas clearly another tool is required. And so you keep running into a brick wall here. And such frustration is understandable, but, ultimately, squarely on you.
Or you could do something as radical as, I dunno, widen your horizon, maybe?! There's an excellent ingame Science channel; and even here many Sci Captains would be willing to give you some pointers. And perhaps your mind will open to a whole spectrum of different fitting models, ones you had never considered before... and which can actually make your Nebula work, even with only 2 Tact Consoles. Your choice.
Good call on the new thread name. Expect some lingering heat from earlier in the comments, but it will subside. Soft style ...
So let me ask, what exact build would you put to work with the different console layout? I mean, if you have a definite plan, I would like to see it. I'd do a torp drain build, but I might get a lot better ideas from you, and if I don't ask, I won't find out.
Qapla'!
Spooky all right! Gotta love it!
Qapla'!
Honestly, I just don't have room for a bunch of Tac-specific consoles. I have too many cool universal slot toys
I agree, it's a great set on science-focused ships. I rounded it out with Vaadwaur polaron on my Recluse, and also added the Delta Ordinance set on my Tarantula. I also used it as the basis of my main set-up on my T6 TOS Connie. Lots of fun synergies when you combine this set with certain traits and abilities. Good times.
Granted, a properly sciency Nebula on my Fed sci out-DPSes it anyway, (60k vs 20k with mostly mk XII gear on both) but lack of crits isn't the reason.
Considering the boff/console layout that's a bad idea. Ah well, back to the drawing board.
I know someone has already gotten to (part) of this, but since the original was my post, here's the detailed explanation:
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Particle_Focuser_Science_Consoles#Restorative_Particle_Focusers
Obtained from completing the first tier of the Development track in the Research Lab fleet holding
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Console_-_Science_-_Exotic_Particle_Field_Exciter
You can craft these yourself once you reach level 15 in the Science R&D school, but the 'easier' way is to use (a lot) of ec to buy one off the exchange
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Alternate_Timeline_Set#Console_-_Universal_-_Auxiliary_Ejection_Assembly
Feds have a much more expensive time of it, since they have to buy http://sto.gamepedia.com/Kelvin_Timeline_Heavy_Command_Cruiser, but KDF and Rom can just buy a reward pack off the exchange, provided they have the ec.
Even if this info is redundant, I hope it helps
My character Tsin'xing
I don't see any reason why the Nebula would out-DPS the Laeosa. They are basically the same ship, except the Romulan version gets the Romulan Battlecloak and Singularity powers with a bit less power output. The Laeosa looks to be the significantly tankier boat(can use Valdore console) and can work with the FBP meta a little better because of that. I would be tempted to use the LtC Universal seat as Engineering to support this and use the LtC. Temp/Eng seat with my temporal powers(Channeled Deconstruction I/Rapid Decay I/Recursive Shearing I). The Commander Sci seat can be setup with Hazard Emitters I/Subspace Vortex I or Destabilized Resonance Beam II/Feedback Pulse II/Gravity Well III. This leaves the Tac end a little light with just Tactical Team I and FAW I. I know these ships are specialized in draining, but at your dps level, not much is going to last long enough for that too be all that effective. The only places I can think of are the end bosses of BDA/E or HSE.
For Laeosa I simply took all the gear from the mirror Ha'Feh that alt normally flies (MK XII Iconian set I still haven't got around to upgrade, locators, etc.) and set it up as a beamboat that also FBPs.
For Nebula it was chronometric and quantum phase, weapons, a sciency mix of deflector/engine/core/shield and research lab consoles. A grav well build that also fires torps (and big quantum phase beam.)
Both could be upgraded/optimised, but I won't bother with beam Laeosa too much, I just wanted to see how that would work.
Qapla'!
My character Tsin'xing
Tried it as an all turret drainer and it was not bad, TRIBBLE things down in seconds but didn't have the firepower to actually do more than tickle stuff.
Then swapped to a drain torp boat and had a bit more oomph and I think that's the direction I'll head in now.
R&D lab consoles let you double up on drains or split with EPG or CtrlX so you could stack quite a lot of science into it. The console it comes with lets you stack even more drains because it can be used somewhere you wouldn't normally be able to fit any drain boosts (e.g in an eng slot).
Combo of a Terran deflector and core plus Temporal shields and crafted engines with drainX mod helps push that side nice and high.
Just trying to find that sweet spot for drainX so I can concentrate on boosting EPG up a bit to help with exotics.
My character Tsin'xing