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Defiant Bundle Stats

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  • sahtaisahtai Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    Concerning faction specefic...... Why the hell did devs Made reciprocity a lockbox trait. Why faction specefic traits in boxen AT all. I ll bet no kling Nor romu complains about that. So why no battlecloak via 3 PC Set bonus
  • amayakitsuneamayakitsune Member Posts: 977 Arc User
    Science has some of the most useful utility low tier powers, without running into lots of shared and global cooldowns.

    Science Team is a shield heal, but it also cleanses debuffs like jam sensors, subnucleonic beam's cooldown reduction and helps against a few of the newer NPC debuff abilities.
    Hazard Emitters is a reliable hull heal over time that also cleanses plasma fire and counters some hazard debuffs like Aceton Beam or the Shield Neutralizer. You can also throw it on allies that get into trouble.
    Transfer Shield Strength is a shield heal over time that also offers some shield hardness - it's in a way the science mirror of Emergency Power to Shields, which is more a shield hardness buff than a shield heal.

    I basically never leave space dock without these 3 powers on any ship.
    Maybe you think you already got enough heals on a Cruiser, but once you have a specialization added in the mix or flying an Escort, these powers can be your bread and butter support powers while you focus everything else on damage output.
    The longer your engagements last, the more value these powers will have - it's easy to kill a single Borg Cube in 5 seconds or whatever with a damage focused ship and you'll never need a heal there, but if you fight 2 Cubes and several sphere and probes, or a bunch of Mirror Universe ships or whatever, things tend to take a bit longer and the heal over times pay off.


    If you actually got a Lt.Cmdr Science or higher slot, slotting Gravity Well is a very potent crowd control ability that works great with pretty much any build, since it never hurts having all the enemies clumped together at one spot, and unable to fly to wherever they want to fly.

    There are a lot of science powers that are sh*t these days*, but the ones that are good are really good IMO.


    *) To be honest, most classes have that. Who uses Mine Patterns? Boarding Parties? Eject Warp Plasma? Transport Warhead? Ambush Marker? Cryptic could really do good with looking at the less used powers and figure out how to give them a purpose.

    Before setting on this build (or those few occasions where I run a different ship to get a trait), when I did use science powers the only two I ever bothered slotting were Hazard Emitters and Polarize Hull. And that second one was only there if I didnt have access to Attack Pattern Omega, and only for the immunity to tractor beams. Shield heals sound nice, but in endgame content your shields are basically tissue paper anyway, so theres no point to them.
    reyan01 wrote: »
    To be honest, I don't care how quickly someone claims that they can "kill the Borg ship before it does that". Not using Sci is fail. Then again, it does seem like amayakitsune's build is single-focused (i.e fighting the Borg). I sincerely doubt that a ship that doesn't utilise Sci abilities would stand up against Mirror ships and their, frankly nasty, debuffing in Counterpoint Elite.

    Also, whilst you summarised things nicely, I have to give Destablised Resonance Beam' a mention too; it's definitely one of the btter new BOFF abilities of late.

    Ive run this build since the T5U FACR came out. This build isnt focused on killing the Borg. Its focused on killing everything, fast. Ive run this ship through Mirror Events, Crystalline events and just about every space queue (havent bothered with the new ones), and Ive never had an issue with any ship and Ive never needed any science powers. Even against the Iconians/Heralds who debuff the TRIBBLE out of everything. 50k+ DPS is more than enough to not need to worry about it.

    I have not used a science power in a very very long time, and Ive never felt the need for one. And any new ship that has a science station is immediately useless to me. This isnt the place for me to list my build, but if for some reason youre interested, send me a PM. I intend to cease clogging the topic with this now.

    In summation: Science BOff slots are useless.
    7NGGeUP.png

  • toivatoiva Member Posts: 3,276 Arc User
    materwindu wrote: »
    I like most of the Valiant stats, but my fleetmates and I were discussing when these stats came out, a couple of items we have problems with. One was asking why we were getting a Cmdr Tac and a LT Cmdr Tac instead of Cmdr and LT. This friend would have like to see it with a Lt Cmdr Engi or LT Cmdr Uni boff seat instead. Another major contention point we all shared was this: We have seen some T6 level ships that have a special boff seat in it have more consoles than it's T5-U counterpart. Why are we backsliding on this point when none of these new escorts have any special non console tied ability. For example, why does the Valiant have equal tactical consoles than the T5-U counterpart? It's not gaining any pilot ship abilities.

    That's the thing, if you want a Lt.Comm. Eng, you should get the Phantom. If the valiant got it, it would be quite the same ship, only really worse. Now it's not, it's as much unique as can be.

    And I'd like to see which T6 ships have more console slots than their T5-U counterparts. Because not only there aren't any such ships to my knowledge, but also also those pairs of ships actually have the identical console layout.
    TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class.
    Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
    Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.

    Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
  • hanover2hanover2 Member Posts: 1,053 Arc User
    In summation: Science BOff slots are useless.

    Horse pucky. Your inability to conceive of a use does not render them "useless."
  • thetaninethetanine Member Posts: 1,367 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    thetanine wrote: »
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    BOYCOTT!
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Due to the fact that both the FED Defiant (of course) and the KDF BoP (thankfully) have NO Ensign seat.
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    The ROM Tvaro Gets SHAFTED with an ENSIGN SEAT:
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I will NOT BUY ANY of these THREE SHIPS.
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    ┻━┻ ︵ヽ(`Д´)ノ︵ ┻━┻
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Okay - guessing that your attention span failed; you missed the fact that the Malem gets a three-piece set bonus as oposed to the Valiant and Kor only receiving a two-piece set bonus. Evens things out, even if only a little.


    But don't let facts ruin a perfectly good outburst.....

    Hey watch it bud! I didn't read ANY of the specs. I only look at Boff Seats. That's my new 'shtick'. Now run along kid. . .you're making me look bad.​​
    STAR TREK
    lD8xc9e.png
  • freakiumfreakium Member Posts: 439 Arc User
    Ah darn! The Fleet BoP will need a Tier 5 shipyard. This'll take only 7 more years to obtain for my current fleet. I wish they would change it to only requiring a T3 shipyard, like the fleet Defiant. That or I'm hoping against all odds that it was a typo, like how the Fleet T'Varo is a C-Store purchase. :smile:
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  • breadandcircusesbreadandcircuses Member Posts: 2,355 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    Meh, I think a decent chunk of the disappointment comes from the Dreadnought Bundle and its improvements. While the Yamato was a fairly limited improvement over the Gal-X (albeit a good one), both the Kolasi and Kara gained abilities not previously available on either of their respective T5 versions. Had a similar stance been taken on these ships, there would probably be a lot more widespread support for all three.

    Of course, the timing wasn't very good either. We've known (or at least suspected) that this set was coming for quite some time... yet it arrives right after we've supposedly finished our big war and moved back towards exploration, etc. Add to this the recent What would you like to see in the T6 Defiant when it arrives?, and...
    nikephorus wrote: »
    I want it to be terrible so that I can watch the forums burn.
    ...was bound to happen; even reasonable suggestions from that thread were probably far too late to make a difference, given what we've been told of development cycles.

    My condolences to the devs over the TRIBBLE you're catching; I'm undewhelmed myself, but I do get why they are as they are.
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    meimeitoo wrote: »
    I do not like Geko ether.
    iconians wrote: »
    With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.​​
  • trillbuffettrillbuffet Member Posts: 861 Arc User
    I am really excited to buy an upgraded T6 b'rel that is still underpowered in the meta YAY WE MUST BUY IT FAST BEFORE IT CAN BE BOUGHT!!!!
  • thenoname711thenoname711 Member Posts: 204 Arc User
    I am missing the option to give pilot ships and phantom escort access to defiant skins if you buy Valiant class(must be t6 version, older doesn't count). Both are better than defiant in terms of stats but lack the proper visuals to impress the trekkie guys. It would be really interesting to see defiant flipping around with pilot maneuvers or gathering intel on enemies. I believe this could be a strong selling point for all ships involved.
    Gameserver not found.
  • vorwodavorwoda Member Posts: 699 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    irm1963 wrote: »

    Does the Bird Of Prey come with a random Shakespeare quote generator for those moments you fire off a torp barrage from cloak ? Instant buy lol.
    This!

    I can see it now:

    *Ship fires THYII*

    "It was a tale told by an idiot; full of sound and fury, signifying nothing!".

    *BOOOM*


    Yond reyan01 has a lean and hungry look. He thinks too much. Such men are dangerous....

    *Ship fires TS3*

    "The quality of mercy is not strained;
    It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
    Upon the place beneath. It is twice blest;
    It blesseth him that gives and him that takes."
  • hyperionx09hyperionx09 Member Posts: 1,709 Arc User
    Cryptic should just sell Holoemitters that last 24 hours but allow visual changes of your ship to some other ship and can be maintained while in combat. With restrictions. Namely, Escorts/Raiders/Destroyers can only use Holoemitters of other Escorts/Raiders/Destroyers, Sci ships only using Holoemitters of other Sci ships, Cruisers and Battlecruisers Holoemitters are only usable by cruisers/battlecruisers, and large ships like Dreadnoughts or Flagships can only use large ship emitters.

    For a cheap Zen cost; say 25-50 zen, players can now command what they wish to command as well as another outlet for indirect Dil spending (Dil->Zen). For Cryptic, it encourages cycling of Dil->Zen and bumps up the Zen market to the level they would like to keep it at.

    Of course, said Holoemitters only last as long as you keep them active, so players can prolong their use by not using it while AFK'ing outside ESD or other stations.
  • jtoney3448jtoney3448 Member Posts: 642 Arc User
    The reason people wanted pilot manuvers is because these 3 ships in the shows were the ones that actually showed agility the most in space combat. There were no better choice for agile ships than these, also the 5/2 layout is what the defiant should have had from the get go, its a all forward firepower ship just like BoP.

    Expecting/requesting those 2 things isn't going off into left field guys. People wanted to see defiants and bop rolling and spitting cannon and torpedo spreads as they zip through the battle field just like in the show. The Galaxy R and X both got what I consider true to the show layouts, and I love them for it. The defiant should have got 2 LTC spots, 1 being engineer to go along with its "tough" little ship aspect.

    Even with pilot mauvers, a 2nd ltc, and 5/2 it wouldnt be any more OP then the already exsisting pilot ships. The rom BoP i wish had command hybrid so it could get more out of its torps. And I was happy to see they listened to us and changed the torpedos from photon to quantum on the defiant.
  • hyperionx09hyperionx09 Member Posts: 1,709 Arc User
    But you're basically asking for the Pilot ships, which are already available as such. Not to mention that again, they didn't do anything drastic with previous Iconic ships, and isn't going to happen here. All of the Iconic have been updated to be reasonably competent and effective, but aren't catering to the min-max crowd the way the Intel and Pilot ships have.

    The only issue at this point really is whether or not to make a 3-pc set with the Quad cannons for at least the Valiant, and a better 2-pc set bonus for the Valiant so that it benefits the ship, whether offensively (extra cannon focus), defensively (playing to the use of ablative armor on at least one canon variant), or in maneuverability (to bring it closer to a Pilot ship).
  • tilarium1979tilarium1979 Member Posts: 567 Arc User
    Not to crazy about the fed ships stats. The BoP is good with the all universal and the Rom ship has good layout as well, but the fed is just TRIBBLE BOff stations, in my opinion.
  • farshorefarshore Member Posts: 353 Arc User
    IMHO, keeping realistic (5/2 layout and pilot Maneuvers are outlandish), the Valiant just needs the set bonus tweeking to make it "defiant perfect" or acceptable. As the bonus is pointless and useless being applied to standard cloak. As since the Jhueal has plasma quads its boogling that phaser quad arent in a set.

    I still have a glimer of hope theyll release a tweak, as they have done. There is about no chance they would overhaul the ship for far out requests.

    No, TRIBBLE the console sets. Those are shackles for any ship that has them.
  • inkaineinkaine Member Posts: 27 Arc User
    In general I'm happy with the stats and layout of the three ships and I'll certainly buy the pack.

    Yet, as many others have already said, there are three things I'd love to see changed:

    1.) PHOTON warhead for the Kor (as intended from the beginning)

    That's just as canonical as quantums for the Defiant.

    2.) "Defiant Battle Cloak" instead of "Overcloaked" as 2pc set bonus on the Valiant

    Cooldown reduction doesn't help, if you're under red alert and can't cloak at all. I'm very much in favor of cloak requiring a console slot, as it clearly is a special feature for Federation ships and should require a sacrifice. Yet as someone else already named it a "Defiant Battle Cloak" as a 2pc bonus would at least be worth the lost slot.

    3.) Withering Barrage trait should also improve Cannon: Rapid Fire

    Let's hope Cryptic does listen as they did changing the Defiant warhead to quantums. :wink:
  • szimszim Member Posts: 2,503 Arc User
    I would have liked to see phaser quad cannons being part of the set too. And a battlecloak would be the next logical step given that the Defiant's cloaking device was in fact a Romulan one. Just make the battlecloak the 3pc set bonus. That way a player would be forced to use phasers AND one console slot for the cloaking device. That's enough of a disadvantage to still give Romulans and Klingons the upper hand when it comes to sneeky escorts.

    Please make it happen.
  • officerbatman81officerbatman81 Member Posts: 2,761 Arc User
    ^This Exactly Please

    Cryptic Dev team, very reasonable.

    God Bless you Mr Black Cat sir!
  • sovereign010sovereign010 Member Posts: 641 Arc User
    I think this ship would be a lot more attractive to players if it came with a set of upgraded phaser quad cannons that had the same firing characteristics and sound effects as the ones on the show (with the restiction that the quads could only be mounted on Defiant-class and similar hulls).
  • amayakitsuneamayakitsune Member Posts: 977 Arc User
    I think this ship would be a lot more attractive to players if it came with a set of upgraded phaser quad cannons that had the same firing characteristics and sound effects as the ones on the show (with the restiction that the quads could only be mounted on Defiant-class and similar hulls).

    Those come on the Sao Paulo-class...
    7NGGeUP.png

  • monkeybone13monkeybone13 Member Posts: 4,640 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    I think this ship would be a lot more attractive to players if it came with a set of upgraded phaser quad cannons that had the same firing characteristics and sound effects as the ones on the show (with the restiction that the quads could only be mounted on Defiant-class and similar hulls).

    No no. The quad cannons for each faction can be equipped on any ship that can use dual heavy cannons. They shouldn't be suddenly be restricted like that. It wouldn't be fair to restrict the Fed's version while the others aren't.
  • hyperionx09hyperionx09 Member Posts: 1,709 Arc User
    No no. The quad cannons for each faction can be equipped on any ship that can use dual heavy cannons. They shouldn't be suddenly be restricted like that. It wouldn't be fair to restrict the Fed's version while the others aren't.
    I think they meant a new set of Quad cannons. Maybe Quad Heavy Cannons or something, that is exclusive to Defiant/Valiant. Giving it the extra punch and making the Valiant a bit more worthwhile of an investment with a unique weapon.

    Though the question remains of whether or not it would count as a Quad Cannon weapon "type" in order to prevent equipping of the regular Quad Cannons.
  • uryenserellonturyenserellont Member Posts: 858 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    huntor2 wrote: »
    but the lance boosts my phaser DHC as well as the lance itself.

    wait....what are you talking about?! The lance doesn't have a phaser damage passive boost

    g0aQPzr.png

    It's a nice bonus too. +15% in any console slot is nothing to sneeze at.

    The Phantom makes better use of the Defiant's quad cannons than the Defiant's successor {insert facepalm.gif here}. Why would anyone who has a Phantom want a Valiant except for the trait?

  • trillbuffettrillbuffet Member Posts: 861 Arc User
    This is just me but for all the ships I would have not gone with a spam trait. What I would have done is made it where depending(as in a trait to go along with this too) made one of the rear slots a 360 dual cannon or dual beam bank(depending on w hat boff skills were being used) not a dual heavy and where depending on the functionality of it would proc an ability for each of these ships with a window to be able to go into cloak(would make this unique and give a way for defiant to enter cloak using actual tactics and shorter time frame for tvaro and b'rel. The other thing is the enhanced battle cloak should have been given an overhaul before releasing these ships. The whole need for it is clear and has been stated by many over the last half decade. You have an overwhelming abundance of powers that indeed decloak a cloaked ship. Further more the whole mechanics behind the 3 second decloaking is a counter to the ship itself with no viable powers when using it to justify the tactics a b'rel pilot has go thru just to remain cloaked. Although in existence of this game there are no tactics needed to decloak said ship you just press one of many buttons and its done. The whole purpose of this too was dictated by a player base that has died off long ago being that pvp isn't even a thing in this game because it can't be with what happens from lockbox to lockbox. So its a PvE game and that is what many have accepted because that is what the direction Cryptic wanted to take because they don't have enough staff to bring the game to any more than a lockbox/dungeon game.

    All in all though thats where Cryptic gets the reputation as selling gimmick items. Case in point the priority they gave these ships was a cut and paste except for small changes in art (very very very small) then change one station on each ship and sold as brand new ship with outrageous price tag that won't even justify the gameplay of said ship. Although the track record clearly shows this sale will fail and it will be blamed upon anyone still playing that it was their fault and not of design and as well that they cannot make anymore klingon or romulan ships because they will have lost money on it. So there we go same ole story :P
  • jtoney3448jtoney3448 Member Posts: 642 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    I put this as a compromise. Give them the side to side pilot maneuvers. I don't remember in the show them doing much forward/backward dodging but we saw them do side to side rolling. 3 piece set bonus for quad cannons like +10% acc +10 critd so its a small bonus with the defiant getting the additional 3 piece of a battle cloak.

    Then all 3 would have battle cloak and all 3 would have 3 piece bonus, all of them would get "some" pilot maneuvers aka side to side. Would give them the feel of the shows without over taking the pilot escorts.

    Still think the klink bop could use another minor buff though. And the klink bop should have photon torpedo console not quantum, for the correct feel of a brel.
  • sniperonxtcsniperonxtc Member Posts: 33 Arc User
    You could make this much more interesting with an option to buy pet frigates for (all) our carriers if you have the zen version of this ships - that would make me buy it - style > dps/stats. Release a Defiant from your hangar - damn that would be smexy!

    But in matters of dps/stats I don´t see anything special on this ships. So many players begging for a T6 BOP and Defiant for ages and now it feels like the same ship as the T5U.
    Beware the bearers of FALSE gifts & their BROKEN PROMISES.Much PAIN but still time.BELIEVE.There is GOOD out there.We oPpose DECEPTION.COnduit CLOSING/
  • chipg7chipg7 Member Posts: 1,577 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    tmassx wrote: »
    Ok but than they'd remove that set bonus, because normal cloak is uselles and cloaking device is waste of console slot.

    Feds don't get an integrated cloak either, except for the one-off Intel ships.
    STO is now a dps dependant game. If you don't put out enough dps you struggle in advanced and even more in Elite. So can devs explain why in the hell you make attack ships with 3 tact console ?
    This is nonsense, it's stupid.
    Result : I won't buy those ships.

    If players had a little bit of common sense they'll do the same, but well we majority knows that you'll sell this bundle of ships and keep doing stupid things.
    really disappointed :(

    Wow... harsh much? By the way, most of the ships I fly only have 3 or 4 tac slots, and I don't struggle at all. You just need to adjust your build to play off the ship.
    inkaine wrote: »
    In general I'm happy with the stats and layout of the three ships and I'll certainly buy the pack.

    Yet, as many others have already said, there are three things I'd love to see changed:

    1.) PHOTON warhead for the Kor (as intended from the beginning)

    That's just as canonical as quantums for the Defiant.

    2.) "Defiant Battle Cloak" instead of "Overcloaked" as 2pc set bonus on the Valiant
    ...
    szim wrote: »
    I would have liked to see phaser quad cannons being part of the set too. And a battlecloak would be the next logical step given that the Defiant's cloaking device was in fact a Romulan one. Just make the battlecloak the 3pc set bonus. That way a player would be forced to use phasers AND one console slot for the cloaking device. That's enough of a disadvantage to still give Romulans and Klingons the upper hand when it comes to sneeky escorts.

    Please make it happen.

    Seriously... Feds don't get battlecloak. Stop asking for the stuff that's reserved for other factions. It's not going to happen.
    But in matters of dps/stats I don´t see anything special on this ships. So many players begging for a T6 BOP and Defiant for ages and now it feels like the same ship as the T5U.

    That's kinda the point of T6 ships. They're not supposed to be all that much better than T5U. The Devs have been saying that since day one. They're incremental increases, not much at all.
  • rangerryurangerryu Member Posts: 284 Arc User
    To be honest with Tier 6 ships they're worth it if you've skipped Tier 5 of a class like for example I don't have the Tactical Escort (T5) so I'll be buying the Valiant.
  • nimbullnimbull Member Posts: 1,566 Arc User
    I haven't been tempted to buy ships in a while. I think this will change once these Romulan and KDF ships come out.
    Green people don't have to be.... little.
  • chipg7chipg7 Member Posts: 1,577 Arc User
    jtoney3448 wrote: »
    I put this as a compromise. Give them the side to side pilot maneuvers. I don't remember in the show them doing much forward/backward dodging but we saw them do side to side rolling. 3 piece set bonus for quad cannons like +10% acc +10 critd so its a small bonus with the defiant getting the additional 3 piece of a battle cloak.

    These aren't Pilot ships. The Pilot abilities are reserved for the three Pilot ships, just as the Intel and Command abilities are reserved for their own special ships. Other ships with specialization seats get just the seats and access to boff abilities.

    And Feds don't get battlecloak.
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