Just saying once again, this falls totally short of where these ships should have been...
The quad cannons not being included into a 3 piece bonus set baffles the mind beyond belief
the fact that the team would spend multiple man hours to create a new mechanic (the pilot ships) to only not ever use it again for any OTHER SHIP, when it clearly could be used for these 3 (and frankly should have to begin with)
And as others pointed out, the cloaking for the defiant 2 piece bonus actually doesn't mean a whole lot since its not a battle cloak
Perhaps its time to let us lunatics run the asylum since so far "we" ( I use the term lightly since I know its not a full on thing) seem to have a better grasp on how the ships should be stat wise and ability wise.
Let me guess, not enough coffee mugs laying around when the team brainstormed the ships this time?
*edit* oh yeah...guess we can start the "Why do you hate the t6 defiant" thread now.
*edit 2* I see its already been started, nvm
Set bonuses most beneficial for battle cloaking vessels. The Defiant (T6) does not get battle cloak. Infact, it still will not cloak without needing that archaic relic of old game balance that you keep as an obligated wasted console slot just to appease a vocal minority of the already minor sides of the player base. If you're going to force this console to remain a requirement to cloak the Defiant, make it at least upgrade to a battle cloak in this instance. Or give the Defiant better set bonuses as the reduction in cloak cooldown is an absolute waste of a 'benefit' on a ship which can't recloak anyways after engaging the enemy for some time.
As it stands, I would never waste my money on it. As that is what it would be, a total waste of money for an ship inferior to many other options.
It's nice that the Valiant's console was converted to Quantum; it lets diehards fulfill their desire for canon, and everyone else gets to synergize the Warhead Module with the Quantum Phase Torpedo for durability and the Neutronic Torpedo for power.
It's also pretty cool that the Kor's console got converted to Quantum along with that of the Valiant; that lets players synergize its Warhead Module with Radiant Quantum temporary hitpoints to try and be a tad less dead using the Enhanced Battle Cloak.
The Starship Trait is nice, making it possible to maintain nearly constant C:SV; it doesn't really go with the Kor or Malem, but it's still a nice Starship Trait.
Though...
Just how fast do the Warhead Module consoles reload? That's a rather important tidbit as far as determining their value, and seems to be missing from the Stats blog.
That said...
Where this offering was concerned, the Kor was the make or break design for me. BoPs overall have too may design concessions for my tastes, all the more so given that their "all Universal" seating is no longer universal, in whole or in part, beyond merely the Professions. I was rather hoping this offering might be another adjustment to address Raider balance issues, but since the Kor is nearly identical to a T5-U B'Rel it both de-values that ship and fails to add value to the new version. Had this been more of an improvement, I'd have picked up the whole bundle... but that was not to be.
TL;DR...
I'm glad to see these iconic ships brought up to T6, but I'm underwhelmed by the manner in which this was done. No sale, sorry.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
The T'varo is a definite t6 purchase for my rom but pity the set doesnt have the piloting skills or the 5/2 weapon set like the othe t6 raider so may just get the one ship rather than the bundle
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"The Tier 6 Kor Bird-of-Prey is heavily based on the famed B'rel Bird-of-Prey Retrofit's original design, however it has been heavily modified to be better suited for battle against the Klingon Empire's current foes."
I'm dissapointed. Seriously. This was an absolute sure sale, my fleet mataes and freinds have heard nothing but my excitment for a T6 defiant for months. I was all ready to buy the 3 pack. T6 BoP (which granted looks better to me than most T6 Klingon ships), and the T6 T'varo were gravy. Now, if I get the set it will be because of those two ships, and use the Valiant just long enought to get get the trait. Sad, as the Defiant is my second favorite starfleet ship.
So, here's where you went wrong: (1) Lt Cmdr. Like it or not you started this power creep with the Patrol Escort Retrofit. Which is a better escort in every measuarable way to this T6 Defiant. Okay, there is one way the Valiant is better a +1 turn rate. Otherwise the T5 Patrol Escort is superior. 5 Tac consoles out of the box. Universal LT Cmdr, Tac Lt Cmdr. Tempest Tailgun, Nadion Bomb which outdamages all the lances, lotuses and gimmicky torpedoes out there. Who cares if I have one less total boff slot when I have (2) lt cmdr slots. Speaking of: Patrol Escort Refit, Phantom, Hestia and the other two ships in this bundle have two lt cmdr slots. Additionally, the quads are so iconic to the Defiant that their omission from the set bonus is simply silly. No one wants to use that cloak, not on the Galaxy-X and not here. The set bonus of a faster cool down means nothing, as by the time you're out of combat and can use the thing again the cool down is mostly likely done as it is. Extra crit chance and severity? Is it going to be more than the crit chance I could get from an additional tac console (Since I only have 4), or from another console that I'm forced to leave out to take this cloaking device? I'd wager not. Furhter, the other two ships in this set have built in cloaking devices, as does the Phantom adding to the underwhelming feeling of the Valiant. Both the Federation and Klingon quads come from other ships in their respective lines, so why not include them, especially if you were only going to give a two piece set to each of them while giving a three piece set to the T'varo. Nothing in this ship makes sense given the current state of the game. If power creep was the concern, too late, that genie is out of the bottle and making one of the most iconic ships in trek an underperforming escort is not the solution. If the idea that 13 boff slots is better than 12 no matter what order you put them in, that's just wrong. A universal lt is not at all equvilant to a fixed lt cmdr.
So, since the blog post says this is subject to change, let's change it. My suggestions would be as follows: Make that lt engineer a lt cmdr and the universal an ensign. Make the set bonus for both the BoP and the Valiant include the quads. if you want to keep the cloaking console in it then just make it a three peice set, heck the T'varo already has a three piece set. Seriously though, a new T6 Defiant (the only starfleet ship to actually have a cloak permently, in the time line and in cannon) should have the cloak built in. Anyway, I imagine we're not going to get these changes now, but the way it stands IF I get the Valiant it will only be because it came in the bundle with the other two ships. You had a sure sale here, but I simply won't buy an escort that doesn't have (2) Lt Cmdr slots. It's why I never bought the pilot ships.
"The Tier 6 Kor Bird-of-Prey is heavily based on the famed B'rel Bird-of-Prey Retrofit's original design, however it has been heavily modified to be better suited for battle against the Klingon Empire's current foes."
How, exactly? I'm not seeing it.
The only modifications were the upgrade of a Lt Universal/None to a Lt Cmdr Universal/Pilot and the introduction of a Warhead Module console. No other changes were made from the T5-U B'Rel... while that same T5-U B'Rel has no special console, no special weapon, and no remaining value in the ship lineup beyond a separate Admiralty Ship. It even requires the same Rank to fly.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
"The Tier 6 Kor Bird-of-Prey is heavily based on the famed B'rel Bird-of-Prey Retrofit's original design, however it has been heavily modified to be better suited for battle against the Klingon Empire's current foes."
How, exactly? I'm not seeing it.
The only modifications were the upgrade of a Lt Universal/None to a Lt Cmdr Universal/Pilot and the introduction of a Warhead Module console. No other changes were made from the T5-U B'Rel... while that same T5-U B'Rel has no special console, no special weapon, and no remaining value in the ship lineup beyond a separate Admiralty Ship.
I'm not surprised, just disappointed.
Right. None of that says to me that it makes a BoP more relevant in today's AOE/HP sponge meta.
I'm more surprised than maybe I should be. But very disappointed.
edit: I get that they made a Defiant trait, and gave it to all 3 ships- but B'rel=torpedoes. I'm really scratching my head at this one. I'm not furious like many seem to be, but I won't be grabbing this, now.
4/3 setup and no 2nd lt. Commander. To finish the feds Roms gets an a 3 PC Set wtf. Like the heavy eskortiert arkif had a 3pc Set with the Plasma Quadcannon as a Part of it. Why Not the Vailiant?????? Quads are Part of an defiant. And THE Fed attack ship with noch 5/2 i am disapointed. 2 PC Set Bonus is a joke......... i Dont get why fed getan an 2nd lt com.
-4/3 weapons layout instead of 5/2 facepalm
-4/3/3 console layout instead of 5/2/3 or 5/3/2 smh
-neither the engi nor sci boff slots get a t3 slot, and an extra t1 and t2 compensates for this exactly zero.
-no enhanced quad cannons or enhancement for them to make them relevant again since advancements in other weapons have completely passed them by and made them dinosaurs
-useless pilot slot instead of intel slot (THIS SHIP NEEDED OSS!!!)
-no integrated standard cloak or ability to upgrade to battle cloak with cloak console
-base turn rate stays at 17? useless
-useless mastery trait. can already get similar result with cooldown reducing doffs. does nothing to counteract the innate superiority of FAW spam in every situation. My idea was a mastery trait that would allow a raise to weapons power cap for each cannon slotted in forward weapons slots and maybe a +2% crit chance for each DHC.
-a console that is absolutely useless on a cannon build. I'd rather have had an integrated enhanced quad cannon with built-in CRF1 like a front-mounted Tempest Tail Gun
-and to top it all off, SET BONUS WTF LOL. There is no more useless set bonus in the entire game than Overcloaked. Cloak reset is already almost the same as the leaving combat cooldown. Whoever thought that would get people interested needs to be shot. And fired. In that order.
FINAL VERDICT:
(and I feel pretty confident I'm speaking for a supermajority of your paying customers)
Unless someone buys it for me for Christmas, I'm not wasting my time, money or 8500 dilly a day on this FLYING TRIBBLE. Phantom is superior in every single possible way, and pilot escorts are better in a solid majority of categories. There is no bloat in Cryptic's decision making or bellies that could rival the sheer mass of this Fail Whale. Is there anyone in Cryptic listening? THERE IS A REASON EVERYONE ON THIS THREAD IS COMPLAINING!!! Anyone who says this ship's strengths make up for its weaknesses either don't know how STO works or has the reasoning capacities of a guinea pig, and anyone who has thirty dollars and spends it on this ship instead of a Phantom or pilot escort needs to be banned from video games. FOREVER.
I'm not sure I would spend 2500 zen on this, much less 3000. At 2500, it's a slightly underpowered ship that is a hair more useful than a t5 after you've spent 500 zen on an upgrade console. At 3000, it is a FLAMING BALL OF SUCK! Buyer beware.
In other news, why quantums on the Klingon ship? For one, the Klingons never developed quantum torp tech, and there is no lore about them developing, buying or stealing it anywhere in the game. not to mention, they could have balanced out the mechanics with reduced recharge time to compensate the dps for the reduced dmg capacity. maybe trying to make up for the fact that this t6 B'Rel might have passed that useless, double ugly t6 excelsior as the biggest waste of zen in this game. Or the irresolute Resolute might still be more worthless, depending on what you're looking for in a really crappy ship.
LOL at all the rage and complaints about these ships being "epic failures". It's not logical to say they're failures when they haven't been released yet.
Simple solution: leave polite feedback on how you think the ships could be made better. And as always, if you don't like it don't buy it. It's wrong to go around pretending to speak for everyone claiming we all hate these ships. I haven't purchased them yet so I can't say one way or the other on how well they perform.
Far from it. These ships have been requested for a long time and a lot of us have been patiently awaiting their arrival.
My only disappointment is that the phaser and disruptor quad cannons weren't made part of the console set. The phaser quad cannons especially because the Romulan's plasma quad cannons launched as part of a 2 piece set and became a 3 piece with the recent T6 heavy escort carrier. The disruptor quad cannons are a little iffy since the ship they come with isn't exactly a B'rel, but at this point it wouldn't make sense to have the phaser quad cannons be part of a set that doesn't come with a Defiant variant as they generally tend to make sets out of similar ships.
Either way, I'll buy this ship bundle as soon as I can and hope they take feedback into consideration eventually. If not, I'm sure I'll get some enjoyment out of them anyway.
Monkeybone you Got to admit the fed Set is the epic epic fail. ITs based on an outdated console which absolute no Player uses. The 4/3 setup is sad but my fed hvy t6 escort runs fine with it.
As far as no 3-pc bonus with the Quad Cannons on the Valiant and Kor goes, I'm not sure which is the lesser of the 2 evils:
- Requiring use of a weapon and console (or two) for a set bonus and restricting builds to certain weapon types (especially with the ever so bland vanilla Phasers)
- Requiring use of 2 (or more) consoles for a set bonus while freeing up weapon customization just for the user's personal preferences.
I feel the most optimal method would be to let the Valiant and Kor get only a 2-pc bonus out of a 3-pc set; allowing them to use either the Quads and Torp console, or Torp and Cloak console (Valiant) / Torp and early BoP console (Kor), and expand the Kor to use the Ning'tao skin as well as the other BoP skins not listed.
If they did have to add a 3-set bonus, just give the Kor and Valiant a modest defense boost, shield boost, and a turn boost. For the Valiant, it'd bring it a bit closer to the Pilot escort (at the cost of requiring 3-pcs to edge it there). For the Kor, it just buffs its survivability a bit more.
Beyond that, there's no need to change the loadouts or further take one of the few remaining advantages (Battle Cloaking) from the KDF and Romulan side without some sort of return to them. If you want Battle Cloak on the Fed side, go spend a fortune on the Voth ships. Otherwise, go play Fed-aligned Romulan.
And for those whining about the 4/3/3 console setup on the Valiant, do realize that the Fleet version gets 5/3/3, so it's not like the world has come to an end. You just have to pony up for a Fleet Module and Fleet Credits.
The announced trait raised the hope that the T6 Defiant might be finally a good
option for cannon lovers.
After the release of the stats that has changed. The boff-layout is ... managable,
not good but at least better than the Hestia. But the 4/3 layout was the final nail
in the coffin. If the ship would have come with 5/2 I would have considered a
purchase, but now I will pass.
Granted, the T6 Defiant would have needed to be a REALLY good ship to make me
considere a purchase since I hate the design of the Defiant.
I will most likely get myself a pilot escort during the next sale.
Cryptic do you know that the 2 piece set bonus is not helpful on the Defiant, with a normal cloak.
A reduction in cloak cooldown does absolutely nothing for you since you can only cloak when you are out of combat for the other two ships great but not for the Defiant.
Are you kidding?
CDR and two Lcdr seats plus an lt seat. Best boff seats ever
No, are YOU kidding? because the T6 Battlecruisers have exactly that Cmdr and two Lt. Cmdr and a Lt. AND a ensign.
Cmdr and two Lt. Cmdr arent exactly new, they been around since DR.
For some strange reason they think that all universals justify a -1 bridge station, this might been true at some point but certainly not been so for quite a while.
They have always thought this, since the invention of the BOP, and I think it's still a valid idea.
The BOP has not just all universal bridge officer slots. It has battle cloak (in this case, even enhanced) and a killer turn rate (better than Pilot ships, in fact). A single ensign slot missing means very little, considering that you can mimic pretty much every build in the game, and have the ideal ship stats to go with that.
On many ships you will end up with having a slot to fill with somethnig you don't really need or can fully utilize because you have so many shared cooldowns going on. On a BOP, that's never a problem.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I think we all agree the delay in cloaking is an issue with the console. The only reason there was a delay in the show is because the ship took damage. I really like everything else I see. It would be nice if the quad cannon was part of a set. The romulan quad is.. Thank you for releasing these ships I will buy them as soon as they show up.
As far as no 3-pc bonus with the Quad Cannons on the Valiant and Kor goes, I'm not sure which is the lesser of the 2 evils:
- Requiring use of a weapon and console (or two) for a set bonus and restricting builds to certain weapon types (especially with the ever so bland vanilla Phasers)
- Requiring use of 2 (or more) consoles for a set bonus while freeing up weapon customization just for the user's personal preferences.
I feel the most optimal method would be to let the Valiant and Kor get only a 2-pc bonus out of a 3-pc set; allowing them to use either the Quads and Torp console, or Torp and Cloak console (Valiant) / Torp and early BoP console (Kor), and expand the Kor to use the Ning'tao skin as well as the other BoP skins not listed.
If they did have to add a 3-set bonus, just give the Kor and Valiant a modest defense boost, shield boost, and a turn boost. For the Valiant, it'd bring it a bit closer to the Pilot escort (at the cost of requiring 3-pcs to edge it there). For the Kor, it just buffs its survivability a bit more.
Beyond that, there's no need to change the loadouts or further take one of the few remaining advantages (Battle Cloaking) from the KDF and Romulan side without some sort of return to them. If you want Battle Cloak on the Fed side, go spend a fortune on the Voth ships. Otherwise, go play Fed-aligned Romulan.
And for those whining about the 4/3/3 console setup on the Valiant, do realize that the Fleet version gets 5/3/3, so it's not like the world has come to an end. You just have to pony up for a Fleet Module and Fleet Credits.
Honestly, if they were to add a 3-piece set component to the Kor I'd expect it to be using something copy/pasted or otherwise tacked-on to the T5 B'Rel, since the release of a T6 version pretty much negates any need to purchase it at T5. That is normal for most of the T6 updates, but they usually compensate to some extent by using set bonuses as an incentive to buy the T5 versions. That's not really an option with the T5 B'Rel at the moment.
Otherwise... I just noticed, while getting distracted and absently staring at your gif down there, that JJ energy weapons actually bend and arc in their trajectories. Weird. I guess that means that cannon shots chasing you are canon (heh), at least in the other universe.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
My only real criticism (so far) of the T'Varo is the Trait. Please consider changing it to something like enhanced TS or HYT instead of CSV for the T'Varo (and perhaps the B'Rel). Cannons go with a T'Varo like bicycles go with a fish.
Honestly, if they were to add a 3-piece set component to the Kor I'd expect it to be using something copy/pasted or otherwise tacked-on to the T5 B'Rel, since the release of a T6 version pretty much negates any need to purchase it. That is normal for most of the T6 updates, but they usually compensate to some extent by using set bonuses as an incentive to buy the T5 versions. That's not really an option with the T5 B'Rel at the moment.
Otherwise... I just noticed, while getting distracted and absently staring at your gif down there, that JJ energy weapons actually bend and arc in their trajectories. Weird. I guess that means that cannon shots chasing you are canon (heh), at least in the other universe.
I wouldn't mind if they added a copy/paste console to the T5, but I doubt they would do that.
As to the gif, it only happens in warp. Firing while in warp throws off the beam's path due to science reasons (which is why the Vengeance got that close in the first place). Once they exit warp, they fire straight. But homing beam cannons would be nice too.
Oh one more thing.. why do klingons get fed torpedoes? Romulans only had impulse power on warbirds because plasma torpedoes took too much power. Klingons exchanged older D7 battle cruisers for plasma torpedoes and cloaking technology back in 2268.
Honestly, if they were to add a 3-piece set component to the Kor I'd expect it to be using something copy/pasted or otherwise tacked-on to the T5 B'Rel, since the release of a T6 version pretty much negates any need to purchase it. That is normal for most of the T6 updates, but they usually compensate to some extent by using set bonuses as an incentive to buy the T5 versions. That's not really an option with the T5 B'Rel at the moment.
Otherwise... I just noticed, while getting distracted and absently staring at your gif down there, that JJ energy weapons actually bend and arc in their trajectories. Weird. I guess that means that cannon shots chasing you are canon (heh), at least in the other universe.
I wouldn't mind if they added a copy/paste console to the T5, but I doubt they would do that.
As to the gif, it only happens in warp. Firing while in warp throws off the beam's path due to science reasons (which is why the Vengeance got that close in the first place). Once they exit warp, they fire straight. But homing beam cannons would be nice too.
Nah, even after the Vengeance has blasted the Enterprise out of warp (and is pummelling it while it's defenseless) you can see a couple energy weapon shots arcing. It's right at the very end of your gif there, after the momentary respite. The last couple shots actually cross paths.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
Very Nice, but sadly I'll be waiting for the next ship sale for these as well as the Hestia and Dreadnought as they are not complete ships until you also buy the Fleet versions.
The Command ships and the Pilot ships are much better purchases as they come complete being Fleet Equivalent right out of the box.
Come on Cryptic, Bioware finally realized that us Casual Players hold the cash as well as support many of those non casual players and have gotten rid of the Raid mentality for gear. Read my sig and learn.
Comments
The quad cannons not being included into a 3 piece bonus set baffles the mind beyond belief
the fact that the team would spend multiple man hours to create a new mechanic (the pilot ships) to only not ever use it again for any OTHER SHIP, when it clearly could be used for these 3 (and frankly should have to begin with)
And as others pointed out, the cloaking for the defiant 2 piece bonus actually doesn't mean a whole lot since its not a battle cloak
Perhaps its time to let us lunatics run the asylum since so far "we" ( I use the term lightly since I know its not a full on thing) seem to have a better grasp on how the ships should be stat wise and ability wise.
Let me guess, not enough coffee mugs laying around when the team brainstormed the ships this time?
*edit* oh yeah...guess we can start the "Why do you hate the t6 defiant" thread now.
*edit 2* I see its already been started, nvm
As it stands, I would never waste my money on it. As that is what it would be, a total waste of money for an ship inferior to many other options.
Though...
That said...
TL;DR...
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
How, exactly? I'm not seeing it.
So, here's where you went wrong: (1) Lt Cmdr. Like it or not you started this power creep with the Patrol Escort Retrofit. Which is a better escort in every measuarable way to this T6 Defiant. Okay, there is one way the Valiant is better a +1 turn rate. Otherwise the T5 Patrol Escort is superior. 5 Tac consoles out of the box. Universal LT Cmdr, Tac Lt Cmdr. Tempest Tailgun, Nadion Bomb which outdamages all the lances, lotuses and gimmicky torpedoes out there. Who cares if I have one less total boff slot when I have (2) lt cmdr slots. Speaking of: Patrol Escort Refit, Phantom, Hestia and the other two ships in this bundle have two lt cmdr slots. Additionally, the quads are so iconic to the Defiant that their omission from the set bonus is simply silly. No one wants to use that cloak, not on the Galaxy-X and not here. The set bonus of a faster cool down means nothing, as by the time you're out of combat and can use the thing again the cool down is mostly likely done as it is. Extra crit chance and severity? Is it going to be more than the crit chance I could get from an additional tac console (Since I only have 4), or from another console that I'm forced to leave out to take this cloaking device? I'd wager not. Furhter, the other two ships in this set have built in cloaking devices, as does the Phantom adding to the underwhelming feeling of the Valiant. Both the Federation and Klingon quads come from other ships in their respective lines, so why not include them, especially if you were only going to give a two piece set to each of them while giving a three piece set to the T'varo. Nothing in this ship makes sense given the current state of the game. If power creep was the concern, too late, that genie is out of the bottle and making one of the most iconic ships in trek an underperforming escort is not the solution. If the idea that 13 boff slots is better than 12 no matter what order you put them in, that's just wrong. A universal lt is not at all equvilant to a fixed lt cmdr.
So, since the blog post says this is subject to change, let's change it. My suggestions would be as follows: Make that lt engineer a lt cmdr and the universal an ensign. Make the set bonus for both the BoP and the Valiant include the quads. if you want to keep the cloaking console in it then just make it a three peice set, heck the T'varo already has a three piece set. Seriously though, a new T6 Defiant (the only starfleet ship to actually have a cloak permently, in the time line and in cannon) should have the cloak built in. Anyway, I imagine we're not going to get these changes now, but the way it stands IF I get the Valiant it will only be because it came in the bundle with the other two ships. You had a sure sale here, but I simply won't buy an escort that doesn't have (2) Lt Cmdr slots. It's why I never bought the pilot ships.
There's my two cents, take it or leave it.
I'm trying not to be cynical here and think that they knew they could make it underpowered and still sell it because "Defiant".
The only modifications were the upgrade of a Lt Universal/None to a Lt Cmdr Universal/Pilot and the introduction of a Warhead Module console. No other changes were made from the T5-U B'Rel... while that same T5-U B'Rel has no special console, no special weapon, and no remaining value in the ship lineup beyond a separate Admiralty Ship. It even requires the same Rank to fly.
I'm not surprised, just disappointed.
Right. None of that says to me that it makes a BoP more relevant in today's AOE/HP sponge meta.
I'm more surprised than maybe I should be. But very disappointed.
edit: I get that they made a Defiant trait, and gave it to all 3 ships- but B'rel=torpedoes. I'm really scratching my head at this one. I'm not furious like many seem to be, but I won't be grabbing this, now.
4/3 setup and no 2nd lt. Commander. To finish the feds Roms gets an a 3 PC Set wtf. Like the heavy eskortiert arkif had a 3pc Set with the Plasma Quadcannon as a Part of it. Why Not the Vailiant?????? Quads are Part of an defiant. And THE Fed attack ship with noch 5/2 i am disapointed. 2 PC Set Bonus is a joke......... i Dont get why fed getan an 2nd lt com.
-4/3 weapons layout instead of 5/2 facepalm
-4/3/3 console layout instead of 5/2/3 or 5/3/2 smh
-neither the engi nor sci boff slots get a t3 slot, and an extra t1 and t2 compensates for this exactly zero.
-no enhanced quad cannons or enhancement for them to make them relevant again since advancements in other weapons have completely passed them by and made them dinosaurs
-useless pilot slot instead of intel slot (THIS SHIP NEEDED OSS!!!)
-no integrated standard cloak or ability to upgrade to battle cloak with cloak console
-base turn rate stays at 17? useless
-useless mastery trait. can already get similar result with cooldown reducing doffs. does nothing to counteract the innate superiority of FAW spam in every situation. My idea was a mastery trait that would allow a raise to weapons power cap for each cannon slotted in forward weapons slots and maybe a +2% crit chance for each DHC.
-a console that is absolutely useless on a cannon build. I'd rather have had an integrated enhanced quad cannon with built-in CRF1 like a front-mounted Tempest Tail Gun
-and to top it all off, SET BONUS WTF LOL. There is no more useless set bonus in the entire game than Overcloaked. Cloak reset is already almost the same as the leaving combat cooldown. Whoever thought that would get people interested needs to be shot. And fired. In that order.
FINAL VERDICT:
(and I feel pretty confident I'm speaking for a supermajority of your paying customers)
Unless someone buys it for me for Christmas, I'm not wasting my time, money or 8500 dilly a day on this FLYING TRIBBLE. Phantom is superior in every single possible way, and pilot escorts are better in a solid majority of categories. There is no bloat in Cryptic's decision making or bellies that could rival the sheer mass of this Fail Whale. Is there anyone in Cryptic listening? THERE IS A REASON EVERYONE ON THIS THREAD IS COMPLAINING!!! Anyone who says this ship's strengths make up for its weaknesses either don't know how STO works or has the reasoning capacities of a guinea pig, and anyone who has thirty dollars and spends it on this ship instead of a Phantom or pilot escort needs to be banned from video games. FOREVER.
I'm not sure I would spend 2500 zen on this, much less 3000. At 2500, it's a slightly underpowered ship that is a hair more useful than a t5 after you've spent 500 zen on an upgrade console. At 3000, it is a FLAMING BALL OF SUCK! Buyer beware.
In other news, why quantums on the Klingon ship? For one, the Klingons never developed quantum torp tech, and there is no lore about them developing, buying or stealing it anywhere in the game. not to mention, they could have balanced out the mechanics with reduced recharge time to compensate the dps for the reduced dmg capacity. maybe trying to make up for the fact that this t6 B'Rel might have passed that useless, double ugly t6 excelsior as the biggest waste of zen in this game. Or the irresolute Resolute might still be more worthless, depending on what you're looking for in a really crappy ship.
Ahhh, the F***ERY of it all.
I don´t think its cynicism when its a given once you consider the history involved.
Yeah, but I'm still trying to remain positive here. You're right, but I'm wishing you were wrong.
Simple solution: leave polite feedback on how you think the ships could be made better. And as always, if you don't like it don't buy it. It's wrong to go around pretending to speak for everyone claiming we all hate these ships. I haven't purchased them yet so I can't say one way or the other on how well they perform.
Far from it. These ships have been requested for a long time and a lot of us have been patiently awaiting their arrival.
My only disappointment is that the phaser and disruptor quad cannons weren't made part of the console set. The phaser quad cannons especially because the Romulan's plasma quad cannons launched as part of a 2 piece set and became a 3 piece with the recent T6 heavy escort carrier. The disruptor quad cannons are a little iffy since the ship they come with isn't exactly a B'rel, but at this point it wouldn't make sense to have the phaser quad cannons be part of a set that doesn't come with a Defiant variant as they generally tend to make sets out of similar ships.
Either way, I'll buy this ship bundle as soon as I can and hope they take feedback into consideration eventually. If not, I'm sure I'll get some enjoyment out of them anyway.
- Requiring use of a weapon and console (or two) for a set bonus and restricting builds to certain weapon types (especially with the ever so bland vanilla Phasers)
- Requiring use of 2 (or more) consoles for a set bonus while freeing up weapon customization just for the user's personal preferences.
I feel the most optimal method would be to let the Valiant and Kor get only a 2-pc bonus out of a 3-pc set; allowing them to use either the Quads and Torp console, or Torp and Cloak console (Valiant) / Torp and early BoP console (Kor), and expand the Kor to use the Ning'tao skin as well as the other BoP skins not listed.
If they did have to add a 3-set bonus, just give the Kor and Valiant a modest defense boost, shield boost, and a turn boost. For the Valiant, it'd bring it a bit closer to the Pilot escort (at the cost of requiring 3-pcs to edge it there). For the Kor, it just buffs its survivability a bit more.
Beyond that, there's no need to change the loadouts or further take one of the few remaining advantages (Battle Cloaking) from the KDF and Romulan side without some sort of return to them. If you want Battle Cloak on the Fed side, go spend a fortune on the Voth ships. Otherwise, go play Fed-aligned Romulan.
And for those whining about the 4/3/3 console setup on the Valiant, do realize that the Fleet version gets 5/3/3, so it's not like the world has come to an end. You just have to pony up for a Fleet Module and Fleet Credits.
option for cannon lovers.
After the release of the stats that has changed. The boff-layout is ... managable,
not good but at least better than the Hestia. But the 4/3 layout was the final nail
in the coffin. If the ship would have come with 5/2 I would have considered a
purchase, but now I will pass.
Granted, the T6 Defiant would have needed to be a REALLY good ship to make me
considere a purchase since I hate the design of the Defiant.
I will most likely get myself a pilot escort during the next sale.
A reduction in cloak cooldown does absolutely nothing for you since you can only cloak when you are out of combat for the other two ships great but not for the Defiant.
The BOP has not just all universal bridge officer slots. It has battle cloak (in this case, even enhanced) and a killer turn rate (better than Pilot ships, in fact). A single ensign slot missing means very little, considering that you can mimic pretty much every build in the game, and have the ideal ship stats to go with that.
On many ships you will end up with having a slot to fill with somethnig you don't really need or can fully utilize because you have so many shared cooldowns going on. On a BOP, that's never a problem.
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Are you the kind of guy that whines because the Borg drained his shields or plasma fires have rotten his ship away?
Honestly, if they were to add a 3-piece set component to the Kor I'd expect it to be using something copy/pasted or otherwise tacked-on to the T5 B'Rel, since the release of a T6 version pretty much negates any need to purchase it at T5. That is normal for most of the T6 updates, but they usually compensate to some extent by using set bonuses as an incentive to buy the T5 versions. That's not really an option with the T5 B'Rel at the moment.
Otherwise... I just noticed, while getting distracted and absently staring at your gif down there, that JJ energy weapons actually bend and arc in their trajectories. Weird. I guess that means that cannon shots chasing you are canon (heh), at least in the other universe.
I wouldn't mind if they added a copy/paste console to the T5, but I doubt they would do that.
As to the gif, it only happens in warp. Firing while in warp throws off the beam's path due to science reasons (which is why the Vengeance got that close in the first place). Once they exit warp, they fire straight. But homing beam cannons would be nice too.
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Nah, even after the Vengeance has blasted the Enterprise out of warp (and is pummelling it while it's defenseless) you can see a couple energy weapon shots arcing. It's right at the very end of your gif there, after the momentary respite. The last couple shots actually cross paths.
The Command ships and the Pilot ships are much better purchases as they come complete being Fleet Equivalent right out of the box.
Come on Cryptic, Bioware finally realized that us Casual Players hold the cash as well as support many of those non casual players and have gotten rid of the Raid mentality for gear. Read my sig and learn.