People didn't abuse it untill it was needed, so it didn't show up on metrics.
Right now, like other dill bonus times, my Doffing has changed to take advantage of that system. I'm sure others have figured that out. More people learn over time, then it shows up on metrics.
Simple if you work with or know what metrics means. (Please note I think metrics suck in general because of what it means base line wise but that's a differeant topic).
The discrepancy was deliberate as I remember talking to Heretic about it in the early days of the doff system.
.
I miss Heretic. He was a wealth of info on how things work at Cryptic.
We'd report a bug and he'd say, really, I fixed that 3 months ago guess its still sitting in the pipeline. Or the opposite, no that code wasn't supposed to go live. It was on Tribble to test and then I pulled it because of bugs.
People didn't abuse it untill it was needed, so it didn't show up on metrics.
Right now, like other dill bonus times, my Doffing has changed to take advantage of that system. I'm sure others have figured that out. More people learn over time, then it shows up on metrics.
Simple if you work with or know what metrics means. (Please note I think metrics suck in general because of what it means base line wise but that's a differeant topic).
Yeah ... well ... I might actually agree with you ... the only problem is ... "abusing" is what Cryptic says it is ...
... if Cryptic is going to decide that playing female Toons is an Exploit tomorrow, it's probably going to be ... and some of the CDF will probably jump on the bandwagon ...
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
I urge everyone to tell him what he should do as a developer. That he should not break the thing people like before he adds something else to make up for it. As someone else said, that he should prioritize player satisfaction over database aesthetics.
If you have a twitter, I strongly suggest you let Al Rivera know your thoughts on this. The decision is up to him, he's responsible for his choice.
he blocks "trolls" which is more or less the entire playerbase
People didn't abuse it untill it was needed, so it didn't show up on metrics.
Right now, like other dill bonus times, my Doffing has changed to take advantage of that system. I'm sure others have figured that out. More people learn over time, then it shows up on metrics.
Exactly this.
Simple if you work with or know what metrics means. (Please note I think metrics suck in general because of what it means base line wise but that's a differeant topic).
I mean, its kinda depressing to think that devs have to plan around numbers on a spreadsheet too but that's the nature of the business. We don't have personal DMs able to keep small batches of players in line while preventing the campaign going Monty Haul. You have to aggregate and, well, here we are.
I missed the generation and setup of the DOff system, so I didn't get much of the startup pains for DOffing. So I'll ask those of long term memory...
Did all of Heretic's changes that brought the systems into line with what he advertised as "the plan" get met with undying cries of "nerf" and "you hate the players", or were they accepted even though they "reduced the speed at which players could max out their stuff" as the fixes they were?
To Geko & Borticus:
See, the difference between a "fix" and a "nerf" is, frequently, the knowledge that the abnormality in question - whether it's 10x faster gains with 12 hour DOff missions or 17x gains in Japori - is actually outside the desired plan(s) for the game.
Otherwise, with it's release to public consumption, it is "automatically figured" to be planned because, well, we know that no company would intentionally and repeatedly release "broken content" - and any company that has two or three cases of "broken content" reaching the live release point would have by now identified the culprit(s) and taken visible steps to correct the issue(s), as perception is critical in the business world...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
I missed the generation and setup of the DOff system, so I didn't get much of the startup pains fo
See, the difference between a "fix" and a "nerf" is, frequently, the knowledge that the abnormality in question - whether it's 10x faster gains with 12 hour DOff missions or 17x gains in Japori - is actually outside the desired plan(s) for the game.
No the difference is always how YOU feel it effects YOU. There is no other ground.
(I'm not saying if I support this or not yet, I need to see how it affects me first.)
I miss Heretic. He was a wealth of info on how things work at Cryptic.
We'd report a bug and he'd say, really, I fixed that 3 months ago guess its still sitting in the pipeline. Or the opposite, no that code wasn't supposed to go live. It was on Tribble to test and then I pulled it because of bugs.
Borticus sometimes does that too. The most recent example was that [Cold] Disruptor thing. It was a crafting thing that popped up for a while.... It was basically unfinished test code. No one wa able to make these as there was a requirement to do so that was unmeeetable.
I urge everyone to tell him what he should do as a developer. That he should not break the thing people like before he adds something else to make up for it. As someone else said, that he should prioritize player satisfaction over database aesthetics.
If you have a twitter, I strongly suggest you let Al Rivera know your thoughts on this. The decision is up to him, he's responsible for his choice.
I've looked around his twitter a bit, and he's said this as well:
D'Angelo always said "assume competence". If someone did something that looks bad, its probably b/c you don't have all the info
The discrepancy was deliberate as I remember talking to Heretic about it in the early days of the doff system.
The additional rewards were put in to encourage a certain type of behavior (logging twice a day), with a clear best strategy.
All commendations had it apart from Recruitment (until dyson land came around). Now it is all messed up and will make spec point earning stop completely for all of my toons. which means pretty much game over.
It's clear that Geko clearly just doesn't have all the info.
I encourage you to tell him on twitter about this. I'm sure he'll be reasonable once he hears all the facts.
It's a huge nerf, doffing has been the only reasonable source of spec xp for a long time now.
And the core of it are these 12 hour missions.
It's always one step forward, two steps back with these people.
New EP seemed like he was getting things back on track, but it looks like he's not.
STO, dashing hopes since forever.
Doff exploiters!
Why do you still play? Man up and walk away. I did over a year ago when they tried to convince us weekend events every 3 months were better than hourly events several times a day.
You all know this has been a systematic, incremental process for years. We were even warned with the articles about Chinese gaming and how they progress.
I promise you the water in the kettle is boiling, take my hand. I'd grab your lobes and pull you out but I'm not ready for a relationship.
I'm inclined to believe Bort saying that those are bugged is true.
However I DON'T believe he's only doing it to 'fix a bug'. Sorry, but that's just too oddly convenient. And if that picture above is anything to go on, that goes beyond 'fixing a few broken 12 hour DOFF missions'.
The reason this change is actually coming is very simple, because irregardless of whatever they say: It's all due to specializations.
Before DR, we stopped leveling at 50. But we kept right on gaining Expertise, but they didn't care because that was hardly used for squat. Bugged or not, even if they realized back then how much skill points you could get from these DOFF missions in question, they didn't care because all you might get is skill points and expertise, that's all, but still stopped at level 50.
Heck, even if specializations DIDN'T exist, I still doubt we'd actually see anything changed. If we stopped leveling at 60 only, the missions would probably still be left alone. Because at most you will stop at level 60 and that'd be all.
But we don't really stop leveling now. And since DR's been released, there's been time after time of XP nerfs and reductions in ANYTHING people have been doing. They've called it 'normalizing', but I've yet to see them actually BUFF most XP gains. Heck, if anything they've been intentionally putting in dil to justify slapping timers on stuff, in particular patrol missions, so that the XP gains from those can be slowed down accordingly, without outright 'nerfing' them again.
And now it's DOFFing's turn. The 'reason' they might give doesn't matter. Someone up high decided they don't like XP gains from it, so DOFFing is gonna get the hammer. Period.
Just to give some numbers, at level 60 you need about 160k XP (yes rounded for simplicity) to gain a spec point. Say, purely through DOFFing only, you earned an average of about 22,800 XP a day. Or basically enough so you'd earn one spec point a week purely through DOFFing.
So, say you were starting on a fresh, primary spec. That needs 30 points, right? Generally there are about 4 weeks in a month, so...30 divided by 4, or 7.5 months.
So, seven and a half months, going only in regards to DOFFing, to fill out ONE full primary spec of 30 points from empty to full, and apparently THAT is too fast for them? I can only dread what might be considered an 'acceptable' pace.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
I'm inclined to believe Bort saying that those are bugged is true.
When there are certain assignments that stand out like a sore thumb compared to all the other assignments...it's pretty obvious that something is bugged. It's simple. It's straightforward.
Have they brutalized XP gain otherwise since the launch of DR in these past five plus months? Think it would be hard to find anybody that disagreed with that...but that doesn't change that certain assignments standing out like a sore thumb compared to the rest being bugged. It's simple. It's straightforward.
Who knows how many metrics Cryptic has looked at have led to the playerbase being screwed over because of folks exploiting bugs, eh? Cryptic has a tendency to do that...Tom sees something is going on and implements something to address that - Jerry finds a bug that was causing an issue...Tom and Jerry somehow never speak...both changes get implemented...players get screwed.
Comments
Just saying....
3 years ago, we didn't need xp.
Now we do.
People didn't abuse it untill it was needed, so it didn't show up on metrics.
Right now, like other dill bonus times, my Doffing has changed to take advantage of that system. I'm sure others have figured that out. More people learn over time, then it shows up on metrics.
Simple if you work with or know what metrics means. (Please note I think metrics suck in general because of what it means base line wise but that's a differeant topic).
I miss Heretic. He was a wealth of info on how things work at Cryptic.
We'd report a bug and he'd say, really, I fixed that 3 months ago guess its still sitting in the pipeline. Or the opposite, no that code wasn't supposed to go live. It was on Tribble to test and then I pulled it because of bugs.
Yeah ... well ... I might actually agree with you ... the only problem is ... "abusing" is what Cryptic says it is ...
... if Cryptic is going to decide that playing female Toons is an Exploit tomorrow, it's probably going to be ... and some of the CDF will probably jump on the bandwagon ...
I'm not going to stop you. I'm just going to be over here shaking my head sadly.
Welcome to the Club ... you finally made it ...
Play my own game for 3 min ... instead of looking at numbers !?!?!
You do know that he probably does, finds the scale adequate, and therefore is going to look at numbers too?
Well if he did he is probably blind ... back to the whole ... missing "obvious Bugs"
he blocks "trolls" which is more or less the entire playerbase
Exactly this.
I mean, its kinda depressing to think that devs have to plan around numbers on a spreadsheet too but that's the nature of the business. We don't have personal DMs able to keep small batches of players in line while preventing the campaign going Monty Haul. You have to aggregate and, well, here we are.
I would normalize everything to the 12hr payout.
Isn't that the whole point of this thread?
There is a term I've not heard in so long... That applies in so many ways...
Not just this Thread ... :P
Did all of Heretic's changes that brought the systems into line with what he advertised as "the plan" get met with undying cries of "nerf" and "you hate the players", or were they accepted even though they "reduced the speed at which players could max out their stuff" as the fixes they were?
To Geko & Borticus:
See, the difference between a "fix" and a "nerf" is, frequently, the knowledge that the abnormality in question - whether it's 10x faster gains with 12 hour DOff missions or 17x gains in Japori - is actually outside the desired plan(s) for the game.
Otherwise, with it's release to public consumption, it is "automatically figured" to be planned because, well, we know that no company would intentionally and repeatedly release "broken content" - and any company that has two or three cases of "broken content" reaching the live release point would have by now identified the culprit(s) and taken visible steps to correct the issue(s), as perception is critical in the business world...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
So you replied to his post just to say you didn't read his post?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
No the difference is always how YOU feel it effects YOU. There is no other ground.
(I'm not saying if I support this or not yet, I need to see how it affects me first.)
My character Tsin'xing
I've looked around his twitter a bit, and he's said this as well:
Now, in light of this revelation:
It's clear that Geko clearly just doesn't have all the info.
I encourage you to tell him on twitter about this. I'm sure he'll be reasonable once he hears all the facts.
http://i.imgur.com/1rFH90i.png
Ugh. Brace for anal impact.
Is that with, or without Skill boosts?
Those are some *very* extreme nerfings.
Doff exploiters!
Why do you still play? Man up and walk away. I did over a year ago when they tried to convince us weekend events every 3 months were better than hourly events several times a day.
You all know this has been a systematic, incremental process for years. We were even warned with the articles about Chinese gaming and how they progress.
I promise you the water in the kettle is boiling, take my hand. I'd grab your lobes and pull you out but I'm not ready for a relationship.
However I DON'T believe he's only doing it to 'fix a bug'. Sorry, but that's just too oddly convenient. And if that picture above is anything to go on, that goes beyond 'fixing a few broken 12 hour DOFF missions'.
The reason this change is actually coming is very simple, because irregardless of whatever they say: It's all due to specializations.
Before DR, we stopped leveling at 50. But we kept right on gaining Expertise, but they didn't care because that was hardly used for squat. Bugged or not, even if they realized back then how much skill points you could get from these DOFF missions in question, they didn't care because all you might get is skill points and expertise, that's all, but still stopped at level 50.
Heck, even if specializations DIDN'T exist, I still doubt we'd actually see anything changed. If we stopped leveling at 60 only, the missions would probably still be left alone. Because at most you will stop at level 60 and that'd be all.
But we don't really stop leveling now. And since DR's been released, there's been time after time of XP nerfs and reductions in ANYTHING people have been doing. They've called it 'normalizing', but I've yet to see them actually BUFF most XP gains. Heck, if anything they've been intentionally putting in dil to justify slapping timers on stuff, in particular patrol missions, so that the XP gains from those can be slowed down accordingly, without outright 'nerfing' them again.
And now it's DOFFing's turn. The 'reason' they might give doesn't matter. Someone up high decided they don't like XP gains from it, so DOFFing is gonna get the hammer. Period.
Just to give some numbers, at level 60 you need about 160k XP (yes rounded for simplicity) to gain a spec point. Say, purely through DOFFing only, you earned an average of about 22,800 XP a day. Or basically enough so you'd earn one spec point a week purely through DOFFing.
So, say you were starting on a fresh, primary spec. That needs 30 points, right? Generally there are about 4 weeks in a month, so...30 divided by 4, or 7.5 months.
So, seven and a half months, going only in regards to DOFFing, to fill out ONE full primary spec of 30 points from empty to full, and apparently THAT is too fast for them? I can only dread what might be considered an 'acceptable' pace.
When there are certain assignments that stand out like a sore thumb compared to all the other assignments...it's pretty obvious that something is bugged. It's simple. It's straightforward.
Have they brutalized XP gain otherwise since the launch of DR in these past five plus months? Think it would be hard to find anybody that disagreed with that...but that doesn't change that certain assignments standing out like a sore thumb compared to the rest being bugged. It's simple. It's straightforward.
Who knows how many metrics Cryptic has looked at have led to the playerbase being screwed over because of folks exploiting bugs, eh? Cryptic has a tendency to do that...Tom sees something is going on and implements something to address that - Jerry finds a bug that was causing an issue...Tom and Jerry somehow never speak...both changes get implemented...players get screwed.
...#LLAP...